In a lengthy but insightful interview with Polygon recently, Rockstar San Diego founder Diego Angel spoke about the time Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto came to visit his studio (then known as Angel Studios) about a Nintendo 64 racing title called Buggy Boogie.
This project was part of the "Dream Team" - 10 third-party studios who were assigned by Nintendo to make exclusive games for the company's next-gen system, the Nintendo 64. Coincidentally, DMA Design (Rockstar North) was also part of this lineup.
According to Diego, Angel Studios apparently spent 45 days preparing for this moment, but the meeting didn't last much longer than 10 minutes. Here's how it apparently went down:
Mr. Miyamoto came to the first meeting in San Diego. We had the honor that this motherf***er came to us.
Mr. Miyamoto went and spent 10, 15 minutes look[ing] at it, closed the big f***ing book, got his hand behind [the book], pushed it to me, looked at me and said, ‘Diego, I don’t want this.’ My balls got frozen. I lost my legs. I said, ‘f***, f***. I blew it.’ He said, ‘This is not what I want.’
I said, ‘What do you need, Mr. Miyamoto?’,“He said, ‘I don’t want any game designs. [Let’s] spend the next three months working on the technology and making sure it feels good.’ [...] He says, ‘You’re going to throw away most of that s***.’
Angel Studios' former software director Clinton Keith opened up about the same encounter during an interview with Gamasutra in 2008. He mentioned how Miyamoto wanted the studio to "find the fun" and after nearly a year of development, Nintendo axed the project.
Keith said it was a "really cool" idea for a game, and described what it would have been like:
When I was working on the Dream Team [at Angel Studios], they wanted us to do this DNA-based driving game called Buggy Boogie. You had these vehicles that would eat other vehicles and adopt their powers and morph. It was really cool.
After this, Angel Studios went on to release three games for the Nintendo 64. Major League Baseball Featuring Ken Griffey Jr. in 1998, Ken Griffey Jr.’s Slugfest in 1999, and the port of Resident Evil 2 in 1999. Following the success of Resident Evil 2, the studio worked with Capcom to create a new IP. This game ended up being Red Dead Revolver (the first entry in the Red Dead series).
"Cultural differences" between the two companies reportedly made development difficult, and Capcom cut ties. Not long after this, the game got revived when Angel Studios was acquired and rebadged by Take-Two Interactive - Rockstar's parent company.
[source polygon.com, via gamespot.com]
Comments 76
Being rejected by someone you idolize can't possibly be fun, I feel for them.
The idea sounds good, he's got a mouth on him though.
Oof, that’s rough. It does actually sound like it could have been a fun game to be honest.
Classy. - comment by Razumkhin.
Glad to see they found better times, Red Dead is great.
Is that even a "reject"?
For what I'm reading Miyamoto only told them he didn't care for the game design's documentation as he wanted them to work on the game.
Sounds mean, but make sense, I'm barely an amateur game developer in my free time, yet I can confirm how games pretty much never end up looking as the original design pitch.
They even got the chance to work on the game to develop that pitch and it got axed only after an year in development afterall (if then it got rightly axed or not, that's a different story for another article I guess).
Not sure why they had to tell this story cursing in every sentense. I know rejection is hard and surely this was a sore experience, but it happens and makes us all the better.
It’s quite a... colourful retelling of events. It almost reads like a movie script.
“Miyamoto crashes into the room through a 50ft plate glass window wearing an enormous titanium exoskeleton designed to look like a shark. He yells, “GIMME THE ***&&¥@@ing DESIGN DOCUMENTS, PUNK!” and then lights up a cigar and half the room with his semi-automatic flamethrower. The flames set my beard on fire, and my balls are swiftly inhaled up my rectum into the depths of my spleen. I hand over the documents, hands shaking like a pneumatic drill, at which point Miyamoto launches himself out of his shark suit and strangles me to death with his bare hands. “What is this dumb piece of *$€%# game!?”, he bellows in a voice of thunder and gooseberry jam... and those were the last words I heard before ending up here at the Pearly Gates, sir.
...I mean, and that’s what it feels like to have a game rejected by Miyamoto.”
I wish Nintendo had been this harsh with Arms. That game really is pointless and you get bored after 15 minutes of play.
Miyamoto sure is one bad motherf***er!
Lol, this reads like Samuel L. Jackson gave the interview..
@PBandSmelly Nintendo doesn't always get it right... Amiibo Festival, Donkey Kong Barrel Blast, WarioWare: Snapped!, Tenchu DS, Flip Wars, Paper Airplane Chase, I'm sure there are many more that aren't up to scratch that get released anyway, I have no idea about anything pre Wii because I didn't have a GC and only had popular games on N64 and SNES when I was a kid. Personally I feel Mystery Dungeon games are also a poor quality product but Pokemon fans seem to like anything.
I rather enjoyed the bit of fruity language in this – because it's real.
If this happened to me I likely wouldn't be: 'ah well, never mind Mr M., it was only 1.5 months of solid hard work'
Unless we'd developed the mind of a zen master, most of us would be 'f**k f**k'y f**k!'
So I'm not sure why everyone's surprised by the swearing. And Mr M. clearly is a bad motherf***er
@Jfarriol Thank God they were not! It's a great game and far away from the standard fighting game formular! I spent several weeks of fun playing this alone, co-op and online!
I always played with motion controls
@Jayofmaya its more to point back then they were fresh but it doesn't really evolve as a game I guess, but its a fun type of game in japan mostly.
@Maxz This is god tier.
@Maxz Well, I would buy THIS game
Being rejected by Miyamoto is like being rejected by the most beautiful and popular girl in your school or being rejected by Harvard.
To be honest the game sounded awful
@Jayofmaya Older mystery dungeons were top quality for their time. (red and blue were pretty large RPGs for the GBA, and Time/Darkness + sky were really good follow ups for the DS.)
Modern mystery dungeon games kinda pfft, but they're far from bad games they just can't live nearly to the standards that the old ones set so high. Most of the problems with the modern ones are mainly due to story over gameplay anyway.
@PBandSmellya hmmm like devils third?
Did Miyamoto actually say ''Shit'' ? I want to know
@arpaktiko probably
Think one of the most insightful parts of the interview from a Nintendo perspective is Miyamoto's direction for the studio to 'find the fun' and they'll see how else to progress the idea. And that they were structured to fail fast but fail small.
@diwdiws not going to lie, I enjoyed Devils Third and still own it. And the Multiplayer alone needs rereleasing on Switch with a few tweaks, it was ***** crazy fun.
No wonder.. gta iv or v won't becoming to switch... Bad blood between the both parties.. damn it.
@Jfarriol two bottles of beer for you for being straight forward.. that game sucks for me after playing the whole campaign.
Grand Theft Auto not coming to Switch can only be summed up as this scene.
Sad to see events unfolded this way. Thank goodness for VBlank Entertainment's own GTA clones, not to mention Saints Row which has virtually no competition on the system. That doesn't justify sourgraping Grand Theft Auto, but at least we won't need to this time around.
LOL, Miyamoto was like naw, this looks like shat.
@AlexSora89 This has nothing to do with it. GTA released one of its best games ever made on Nintendo DS. Wii had Rockstar games too.
@Jfarriol
Point taken, given I've tried the game. That said, however, Nintendo shutting down ideas all the time would lead to Mario handling every damn genre in the book. Anyone remembers how Splatoon was originally supposed to be a Mario spinoff? Yeah.
Its a car-eat-car world. Wtf?
Dude, he is Miyamoto...suck it up and feel honored to be rejected by him personally. Whether you own GTA or not, there is only 1 Mario.
We're just going to gloss over the fact that Miyamoto told this dude "You’re going to throw away most of that sh*t"???
@Maxz Super64 should buy your script to film the sequel to the Reggienator. I lost it on the shark titanium exosqueleton 😂😂😂
@Rpg-lover @Jfarriol
Weird of both of you to bring Arms up. Not my thing but Nintendo have made far worse games than Arms. And it sold over 2 million so cancelling that would have been a terrible decision.
@electrolite77 Maybe since it’s a Nintendo game it got much more visibility, and maybe people bought it because there weren’t thousands of games available like there are nowadays.
Nonetheless, it’s good to have unique games like Arms on the market.
@Maxz This is the best comment in this whole section. XD
Classy guy, disrespecting Miyamoto-san like that. If he wants to find a mofo, he'd better look in the mirror instead...
This does not surprise me. Some of Nintendo's partners rise to the challenge set by Miyamoto-san and get his cryptic advice. Retro Studios revolutionized the FPS genre with Metroid Prime. Rareware made their best games in the mid-late 90s because they wanted to make a game as good if not better than Super Mario 64 and The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. Platinum Games were allowed to get as creative and out there as their minds would allow thanks to working with Nintendo. Some studios push out their best work because Nintendo pushes them to do better. Some studios and creators just don't... its how things are.
Though Rockstar has gone on to bigger and greater things since their time working with Nintendo. Seems like they did eventually figure out what Miyamoto-san meant because GTA is a game designed to be fun.
This reaction by 45 days work? Some developers have works of 2 YEARS rejected, like Metroid Prime 4 which was being done by namco. And to who are writer, it's even worst. It's common rejection of works of 5 years.
@Jfarriol Well done finding the opportunity for an unrelated hot take. Your segue skills are superlative.
@PBandSmelly
Star fox zero.......
@Jfarriol Arms sold 2 millions for a game in a relatively nice sub fighting genre, meanwhile other fighting game struggles lol.
And the game excels in the solidifying the hype for a sequel because the game was charming and fun enough for some.
@Maxz That's uhh....some imagination you have there..😂😂
@Maxz That's VERY imaginative. The likes are well deserved, far as I'm concerned.
That sounds interesting, but I'm not sure it would have sold well on a $50-$80 cartridge. Maybe as an eshop title.
I’m really confused. What is Rockstar San Diego? Why were they talking to Mr. Miyamoto?
I read the headline and was certain this would generate extreme Miyamoto-bashing. Thankfully, not. Hey, the game wasn't what Nintendo wanted. Young designers deal with that all the time. I could have lived without the profanity ... and I'm looking at you too, Mr. Miyamoto.
@diwdiws Devil's Third is one of my Top 3 wii u games. I am anxious for a second part or a Remake.
@ss213 um ok?
@diwdiws I thought you implied it was far from a good game, just wanted to deffend it
@Jfarriol Glad they didn't. I think ARMS is great.
This doesn't sound like a rejection, more like "Go work on the game, and let's talk again when you have more then a design document to show me ." This was a "put your money where your mouth is" moment.
@Rpg-lover #1, they're probably still upset that Chinatown Wars sold so poorly (one of the best GTA games ever made).
And #2, Rockstar San Diego has very, very little to do with GTA
Angel Studios then made two of my favorite racers, Midtown Madness 1 & 2. Good times. Those 2 games were definitely my most-played PC games.
Pictures or it didn't happen.
@diwdiws
That wasn't Nintendo though.
@gameboy1975 they published it, didnt they?
@mazzel
Unfortunately, Arms isn't everyone's cup of tea. Yes, it's a unique fighting game, basically trying to pull off what Super Smash Bros. did, but it didn't do enough like Smash to stand out as its own genre of fighting games.
In the end, Arms is not that different from other 3D fighting games. It just has different controls and a different playstyle, but the overall formula remains the same.
be rejected by one of the most important Game Developer if not the most important of the Game industry is probably one of most harsh experience you can have as working as a Game Developer, but i undertand, Shigeru Miyamoto is a genius, if your game get rejected by him that a sign that rework your game and feel honored that the most important Game Developer in the industry is giving you hints and advices how to make your game better.
@NathanTheAsian That's your rightful opinion! For me, it's far away from being a standard fighting game, especially because of the controls I also don't think that they tried to be Smash in any way...
I guess the purpose was to have a game at launch that makes use of the motion controls.
But beside the fact that you like it or not, you definitely should support Nintendo's effort to deliver unique gaming experience. For sure, not every attempt will be your cup of tea (don't throw stones at me, but I don't like either Smash nor animal crossing )
Ah, too bad instead of Red Dead we could have Bowser redemption instead
Well, I think Miyamoto could've explained why he doesn't like the project. Constructive criticism is better than rejecting. He doesn't even give people a chance.
@Bermanator are people a higher commodity than ideas?
Honestly, there's a lot of people out there with similar ideas, nurtured by one another and whichever is in abundance will be the one cut for excessive representation.
Harsh for people, but it's kinda market dynamics. Myamoto wouldn't be the legend he is today without having a feel for that.
@PBandSmelly High Standards? You tell me that the NES port of Donkey Kong, Urban Champion, Excitetruck, and Custom Robo DS are of the highest standards? LOL
@Bermanator good reply and obviously one I disagree with from a standpoint perspective.
Being great in business, and artistically, will by very definition set you apart from most people.
He's stringent, he's tough, he's an asshole maybe - but only with purpose. Most people are just consumers.
Maybe you're not likely to like him as a person. Eccentricity does that. They seem offensive, arrogant, inconsiderate. Just, to be honest, that only makes me think you've assessed him from a distance and no matter how you or I will spin it, we haven't met him and do not know anything about how his life and choices panned out for him.
And every time I read about someone like that, I'd be happy to learn and process from them whatever they were able to bring out of their life experiences.
Just my perspective, nothing else really.
If he calls Miyamoto motherf***** I'm glad the pitch failed.
If he speaks of Miyamoto in this manner, he deserves to fail. And any respect I had for Rockstar has been seriously hurt. Shame on him, and shame on Rockstar!
@hakjie11
GTA has sold more copies than mario
@Lordplops who cares, let him talk how he wants to talk
@The__Goomba he did end ip developing one of the most revered open world games last gen though.
@GiygasAF
As well it should. Not only do they continually market it well after release, but it is also on like 3 different platforms.
@diwdiws
Yep, they sure did. That still has nothing to do with what you said to the person you were responding to when you mentioned Devil's 3rd. As he/she was talking about the high quality titles that Nintendo themselves pump out & you mentioned Devil's 3rd as if it was Nintendo's work. That"s like someone saying sony pumps out absolute s#ite because they can point out that they published lair or bulletrun. Or someone blaming
Diabolical Pitch on MS.
@GiygasAF Of course, but it's still not "the" Mario...can we agree on that
@mazzel
What I meant was that they were basically trying to create a sub-genre of 3D fighting games the way Smash created a sub-genre of 2D fighting games.
But yeah, you are right. Nintendo recently also announced stuff for Splatoon 2 as well and I'm super hyped.
@NathanTheAsian I should dedust Splatoon then Stopped 2 years ago...
@hakjie11
I can agree with that. Mario as an IP has likely the most recognition of any other save maybe Pokemon?
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...