China Bans Sales Of Animal Crossing: New Horizons In Suspected Censorship Scuffle

China. Just stop. Please.

When someone misused the game for politic propaganda.... 🙄

Ah, crap. Here we go again...

It sucks for physical retailers selling the game for sure. But ultimately it’s not going to keep anyone from playing the game.

So yet another “move along, nothing to see here” article about China.

In recent years, so many people started to commemorate that USA is no longer going to be the richest and most powerful country in the world and China is taking their place, it shouldn't take long for these people to miss the USA.

The USA are not saints, they made a bunch of wrong stuff, caused unnecessary wars and created dictatorships to fulfill their goals, but you think the world ruled by China is going to be better? The United States cannot ban books, movies or videogames for reasons like this, and this goes much beyond our precious videogames, you really want cameras all over the place filming everything you do, using facial recognition, and giving you a grade based on your behaviour and compliance?

I actually really hate people who try to push their political agenda whenever they find a chance. Let games be games.

@Zuljaras : "Entertainment" is also often used to further political agendas by those making it, so if they can, why can't consumers of said "entertainment?" I too would prefer that politics stay the hell out of entertainment altogether, but people have their own way of expressing their beliefs and values, and entertainment is one such way to achieve that ends (and is perhaps more effective than most).

Just as an example, Funimation was heavily criticised for filling their dubs with left-wing propaganda (and associated internet jargon) that never existed in the Eastern (and typically politically neutral) source material. Likewise, remakes of past works (and period works) are often anachronistically embellished with modern sensitivities that also serve to present a disingenuous depiction of history to modern audiences.

Just something that I think is worth contemplating. Propaganda is everywhere, and it is so dangerous precisely because the masses are unaware of how the media that we consume influences our thoughts, behaviour, vocabulary, sensitivities etc. As much as we like to believe that we are entirely autonomous, we are beings that are very easily led by example as we are all moulded by the sum of our experiences.

Time to build a Winnie the Pooh-shaped island to mourn the ban of the game.

I became great friends with some Chinese exchange students who came to my university to study abroad (one of which I dated for a brief period). They want me to come visit them in China someday, but frankly, their restrictive government scares me. Which is a shame, because there is much beauty to Chinese culture. The only way I could keep in contact with them after they left was through an app called WeChat (the Chinese equivalent to Facebook, because they can't have thay without a VPN or paying a lot of money), but I was locked out of my account due to "suspicious activity." I can't imagine living in a country without total freedom of speech.

I thought we played games like this to get away from the world and it's politics... wtf

@Not_Soos : I have met members of the Uyghur community and they spoke of how they had no idea about the outside world (other countries or languages even) until they managed to escape. Many of them will never see their families again as they remain trapped in China (or secretly hauled away and have God only knows what done to them).

When I was in their presence, there was an overwhelming sense of yearning and sadness. They also possessed tremendous compassion and beauty. I couldn't imagine living under the evil from which they had fled. We really can't be grateful enough for the relative comfort that we live in.

@SoapMonkey Get away from the world? People play AC because they missed the world they had.

Grinding everyday so you can save up money to buy things you don't need. Now being lockdown, you can returned to the consumer world again with AC.

@NoTinderLife ..well ...okay...

Let people enjoy things the way they want.

The only thing "ruining the fun" for mainland Chinese players here, as people here have suggested, is NOT the HK protest movement.

It is their own tyrannical, censorious communist party.

China (the govt..not the people) is a sh!tbox. Some say we’re all going to meet our maker someday. Unfortunately, not soon enough for some folks. I couldn’t imagine not living free. It’s a damn game. That’s it. The things most of us take for granted... I need to live my life better and start making a difference in the world, no matter how small. I feel horrible for the Chinese people.

In the words of one great man: "Dont trust China. China is”

I'd take China-level censorship over the "freedom and liberty" propaganda Americans get infused into their veins any day.

EDIT: Should clarify, I am not saying Chinese censorship is good, more that censorship in general CAN be good to ward off hatred and propaganda.

Given the creative nature of the game and the fact that you have to manually share your stuff online it seems like a huge overreaction. This is akin to banning the sales of poster boards because of their use in protests.

But I guess with the Chinese government it's just a matter of internet connectivity + free speech = banned.

@Noid

So when are you gonna move to China then?

@Zuljaras Actually they have been getting into the streets in big groups to get their message across. These groups are quickly silenced by very brutal, and sometimes fatal, methods. There is NOTHING the protesters can do in China right now, because they are under such severe restrictions and their government is not affraid to put down a few people to silence the entire crowd. They are using methods like this to gain support from the rest of the world, its the only method of protest they can attempt that won't result in any death.

@Noid Feel free to move there and report back on how great it is then..

...by breaking their laws and using a VPN of course

(I don't live in the US myself, for what it's worth)

@Noid China-level censorship eh? Well its been nice knowing ya, but you no longer exist.

@DinnerAndWine
Fun fact: Shezhen is the first Chinese city that has banned the consumption of cats and dogs. This is due to fears of COVID but better now than never I say.

@LetsGoSwitch

China has been drunk for wel over 70 years now.

..Wel more like a drug fueled stupor really.

@JR150 Are you serious? Those protestors can put whatever they want on their island. They are not forcing you to accept their political view, the Chinese government is.

@NoTinderLife Yeah well that's partially true mate. I bet at least half the people playing pre-ordered the game before corona was a thing. See I was just placing a comment in this thread then you came and reacted in a frustrated manner, which is totally unnecessary I feel. I didnt place a statement but an opinion from my own experience. I play the game for the immersiveness it gives me, away from the real world, a world where everything is different and nice. You have your reasons for playing the game, that's cool too.

Good, that backward country deserves nothing from the modern world, definitely not Animal Crossing.

The thought of a bold faced political message set against the island theme's chill twang just makes me laugh. Sorry. I know this is serious business.

@JR150

I don't believe that for a second. Maybe "official" markets have stopped the practice, and possibly temporarily, but that crap will still be available somewhere.

Life lesson: Never believe a single thing you hear the Chinese government announce!

@DinnerAndWine
Fair enough. But if some pups and kits are out there and just got saved by this recent announcement, then that's good enough for me. They don't deserve that treatment.

@Kino
Ah, well in that case, this doesn't make sense.

@JR150 "Protestors have kinda ruined the fun for Chinese people who just wanted to play the game. I'm all for free speech, but have some common sense, people..."

Yeah, people. Exercise your right to free speech all you want, just don't say stuff your government doesn't want you to say. Other than that; total free speech!

@Showmeyomoves
I mean, say it all you want. But keep politics out of video games and let them stay as pure forms of entertainment. Protest where it matters.

Will Tom Nook be replaced with Winnie the Pooh in the Chinese release?

@Zuljaras Nintendo didn't advocate these messages though so...

@Zuljaras "They are no better than the government they are protesting against" DUDE, DUDE, How, in any possible way shape or form, could you compare the people protesting for freedom to those who are killing off protesters to "Rid of the undesirables". An actual quote from the government. This isn't some petty little thing, its an actual cry for help. This situation is serious enough to have many protestors slaughtered in the street. These methods the protestors use to spread the word to other countries may seem silly to you, but it's literally all they can do without risking death. If you expect them to go out into the streets now, after the months of protesting already, then you are asking them to die silently.

Shame how even in 2020, China still doesn't have something simple as freedom of speech.

@Entrr_username
You can't reason with the Hammer & Sickle unfortunately.

@NoTinderLife That is in many ways true. Although it presents an “idealized” vision of work and the economy because money is easy to come by. So in that sense it is escapism.

Animal Crossing: Textile Factory would be a much more realistic and depressing experience 😂. You’d be working 10 hour shifts making a 100 Bells daily, then Tom Nook fires you and replaces the factory with machines. So you’d be doing DIY projects more out of desperation then anything else.

Maybe next time...

@JR150 The protestors didn’t ban the game. The Chinese government did.

You understand that, right?

@JR150 These people are silenced everywhere else, so this is probably one of the few places where they can protest without severe repercussions. I know it's hard, having other people's fight for freedom impede on your little fantasy island game, but maybe recognize how privileged you are to have free speech and stop trying to tell people where and how they should express themselves.

@Zuljaras You think those people just all of a sudden got up one day and decided "Hey, let's overthrow the government!"? I don't know what country you live in, but I can tell you that's not what happened. A revolution doesn't just happen out of nowhere. There are tons and tons of protests beforehand. Small symbolic gestures, like a pamphlet or some graffiti, or even big things that inconvenience other people, like roadblocks and strikes. But all of those things motivate more and more people to do something, until there are enough dissatisfied people to make a change.

@Showmeyomoves
Yes, I'm aware. But it seems I've made an error in making my point clear. I'm saying that I hope people who want to play the game can still find ways to do so, despite the ban.

@HappyMaskedGuy
My apologies. I didn't mean to come across as callous. My point was that I wish the people didn't have to resort to using video games to push back, and had larger scale ways to communicate their ideas. Games should be used to entertain and relax. If we're at a point where people need to use them to revolutionize, there is something clearly disturbing about the world at large. Hope my intent is more transparent now.

@JR150 yeah, right, we know how they enforce their policies that don't involve freedom restrictions:

"One seller of CFC-11 estimated that 70% of China's domestic sales used the illegal gas. The reason is quite simple - CFC-11 is better quality and much cheaper than the alternatives.
The authorities have banned CFC-11 but enforcement of the regulation is poor.
"We were absolutely gobsmacked to find that companies very openly confirmed using CFC-11 while acknowledging it was illegal," Avipsa Mahapatra from EIA told BBC News."

Also, CCP encourages TCM, which leads to poaching of endangered species and is the first reason we've got C-19. So, good luck believing.

@Zuljaras oh wow, Why didn't WE THINK OF THAT, oh god the solution is so clear now. My my that is an amazing solution you just thought of. Yes, stand up to the dictatorship. Man the Holocaust would have been so much shorter if people in Germany rebelled against Hitler.....Oh wait they did. Those people died, and many of the people never existed. Yea, stand up against Hitler and you'll be doctored out of any and all photographic evidence, any and all of your possessions incinerated, any family members carrying your named disposed of. Yea no, standing up to dictators with power is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy. And perhaps you're asking, well why doesn't every single person in china right now rebel against the leadership? Well its simple, Fear. Maybe its hard for you to comprehend because you've never been under a dictatorship, but when someone has the power to completely erase your familys existence, you do not want to fight against them. Because your cry for help can never be heard if you're dead. And its hard to gather a group of people to rebel when MANY of the people fear the dictator's power. You make it sound like they could EASILY fix the situation over there, no they can't. They are forced to play by the rules given to them. And as of right now, getting the word out via methods like this are literally all they can do without risking death.

There sure are a good many PRC apologists on here today. And I can only state that freely because this isn’t a State-owned website...

@JR150 All right, fair enough.

@Zuljaras "This is NOT meaningful in ANY WAY. This just allow us to chat about it and that is it."

Now you're contradicting yourself. As we've already established, getting people to talk about something is part of the process of starting a revolution. So the fact that it allows you to talk about it is meaningful, actually.

you know somethings wrong with a government when they ban a game like animal crossing... thankful to have the freedoms that I have.

@Zuljaras "Don't be overdramatic please." "we had around 50 years of dictatorship and people were erased literally." Oh my bad, I am so sorry about being so OVERDRAMATIC about a rather relaxing and peaceful situation. No no my mistake, this whole situation is VERY under control, I can see not there is no reason, at all, to make this a big deal.

@Zuljaras And ok so you think them asking for outside help through animal crossing is silly. Ok then, I want you to tell me a better way for them to get their message to the outside world. And I will tell you if China has either banned that method, or killed people for using that method. So go ahead, start listing your FAR BETTER ideas for how they can handle the very restrictive laws they are being placed in.

@JRJalapeno You can imagine not living free, now that the world is in lockdown, because of SOMEONE'S negligence.

Unless you're in Taiwan who had the sense to disregard WHO and quickly restrict their borders and roll out testing and tracking measures.

@Corum They banned Winnie the Pooh because people were joking around that their leader looks like him. Funny enough in some releases of Kingdom Hearts 3 have a very bright light covering Winnie the Pooh for the entire time in his world.

Censorship in any form is evil and ineffective.

"Keep politics out of games"...Yes I agree. Devs should keep politics out of games. As for people playing the games they bought? Feel free to do as you please. Want to make your island a capitalist, communist or fascist one in AC? Do as you please.
The fact people put the blame at those in HK over the communist Chinese government is baffling.

@Noid You will feel different when people view what YOU say to be hatred and propaganda and then you get censored. Censorship of ANY kind is awful.

@Zuljaras Incredible! A real, honest-to-god Symphony of the Night Dracula RP'er! You have the talk down PAT

@patbacknitro18 I’ve heard something about that. I thank the folks that have come before us and the folks today fighting for our rights to be able to criticize or even make jokes about our political leaders.

Hong Kong number 4, CIA agent Joshua Wong number 4

in all honesty, this is an interesting sort of thing, because the people who usually advocate against censorship are the same people who advocate for politics out of video games
feels like it'd lead to a weird meeting of tensions, and this comment section seems to be showing it in some ways

Yesterday : "Welcome to China anytime and talk to anyone in the streets to enjoy the freedom." said the Foreign Ministry Spokesperson- Hua Chunying
Today : Ban animal crossing ：）
Me : ??????????

The number of people here who are critical of the players instead of the Chinese government is extremely disturbing.

Phuck Xi Jinping.

Chinese government is the scum of the world. How darn you ban free speech. Disgrace of a government, dictators are the worst.

@Anti-Matter @Zuljaras And for once I disagree with you. Free speech should be free, on all platforms. Just because some dictatorship doesn't think an opinion should be heard, doesn't mean people should conform.

@DinnerAndWine well, they just announced animal crossing will be banned. you believe it or not?

Chinese government can pound sand. And so can citizens participating in wet markets. I haven’t hated anything more in my life since I tried a Nutella and apricot jelly sandwich.

@victordamazio I'm sure there's a lot you don't know about the US. The thing about it is, US and UK are MUCH better at hiding what they do and getting people to believe they are necessary and benevolent, even when things get leaked and certain politicians take the fall. As much as I dislike China's "republic" it is really not trying to hide it's dominance and political "persuasion" over people.

@Zuljaras Hate speech is completely different. I'm sure I don't really need to explain the difference between someone who is against something because of prejudice and racism vs. someone who believes in standing for egality and freedom as they see it.

@Zuljaras Your still free to speak it. Doesn't mean you won't be punished. Your free to yell fire in a movie theater, but guess what, you go to jail. Your free to scream at your wife that you'll kill all her kids on facebook, but guess what, you go to jail. But your still free.

But not in China. Chinese government is the scum of earth.

@Jayofmaya Hate Speech is a made up term used to silence people that have different opinions.

In some places, just saying that there are only men and women is deemed hate speech. As far as I'm concerned, since everyone has their own definition of hate speech, then there is no such thing as hate speech.

Great work Beijng! As though you haven't given the world over 1.5 million reasons and growing to despise you, distrust you, and generally want to isolate you entirely, it seems like a great time to also remind people that you're totalitarian scumbags who ban methods of communication if you don't like what people are saying as though blissfully unaware that's exactly how you incompetently screwed over an entire planet to begin with!

#Winning

@Zuljaras I support the Chinese people. They are great people. They make great products.

Also, in American and Japan, etc. You are free to write hate speech in Animal Crossing. But not in China, they are scum of the earth.

Down with dictators!

@mesome713 I don't think anyone hates the Chinese people as a whole here. It's their government that is despicable.

@Silly_G This. It's much easier to hide a political statement in a light hearted speech or comment designed for the brain to chew on and view positively. Equally, just as lethal as using fear as a means to justify a removal of democratic or sometimes even civil liberties. Easy to spot if you are wary, though.

@Kalmaro Agreed, they are a horrible government.

@Jayofmaya Any time someone says "I believe in free speech but-" You can stop them right there since they just played their hands.

@Anti-Matter Where I come from, we call it "free speech."

@Not_Soos The day when Xi Jingping's regime is overthrown will go down in history as the 21st century equivalent of the fall of the Berlin Wall - a momentous occasion to be celebrated by both East and West.

@Kalmaro Ok, but I wasn't really the one saying that freedom of speech shouldn't be a thing. I just simply pointed out the difference. I know what you are saying, when a term becomes too broad and essentially changes it's definition this can also be used to take away freedom of speech. Just check out what the "Terrorism act 2000" covered for a start.

@Kalmaro Not really. That is a statement everyone should be making, as long as it's not followed by "But", "If" or other conjunctive words of the like.

@Jayofmaya
Free speech without rules = CHAOS.
Free Speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without considering the situation.
Let's not bring politic issues on video games.
That people already made his statement, just let him go.

Revolution is coming for ya, Beijing. It won't come now, or next week, or maybe not even for years if not decades ... but when it does, you'll deserve every last second of it.

And after all the stuff you've put your people through, I think they'd agree with me.

#FreeChinaNow

@mesome713
Be careful.
I am half Chinese Indonesian people here.

Maybe Mihoyo will make there own version of Animal Crossing next month. who knows? lol

@Jayofmaya the word "but" negates everything in front of it, that's how it works. You don't tell someone "I like your cooking but it tastes bad."

@Anti-Matter Free speech with rules is not free speech. You can't really get around that.

@Anti-Matter Free speech DOES mean you can say whatever you want no matter what.You can not ban politics from any form of entertainment. That's anti-free speech. That's what dictators like China do.

@Zuljaras I know what you are saying, I don't make the rules. If I were to say something racist or such (obviously hypothetically), I wouldn't be surprised if I was banned from a game chat. It doesn't really address the issue or change the person, though, so it's a temporary solution. Where I would certainly draw a line is in a potential predator using a game chat as a means of preying on children. Obviously after reporting such a person to authorities, I think a game and chat ban is without question, so if I could make the rules there, that is one I would enforce.

And this why am very thankful I live in the United States.

Those villainizing the players instead of the Chinese government are complaining about keeping politics out of video-games while living comfortably away from authoritarian threat.

These every day folk, like many of us, have virtually no platform, so they have to make one when and where possible. If one person who was uninformed about the topic looked into it because of something as harmless as seeing their custom designs on Animal Crossing, then kudos to them.

@Kalmaro You coukd say "I like your cooking, but it could do with some more salt". There is a line in between the black and the white, a centre point. See my previous comment to Zuljaras.

Chinese people: "Well, we can't go out, but at least we can have a virtual island where we get to do whatever we want. We could use this escapism even after COVID-19.
Joshua Wong:

Government:

@LaytonPuzzle27
Well, paid healthcare is really doing a number on you guys out there.

@Kalmaro @mesome713
Can two of you stop dragging me in this conversation ?
I live in Indonesia with different rules and norm applied.
I used to not discussing any political issues in wrong time and wrong situation.
Keep your definition of free speech but don't involve me in this unnecessary conversation.
I really don't want to discuss any political issues.

@Anti-Matter If you don't want people to comment on what you are saying, then why did you make a comment? I won't tag you anymore though, if that's what you want.

@Jayofmaya All you've said is that you don't like their cooking and it needs salt.

The proper way to say it would be like "I like your cooking and I think salt could make it better."

"But" just negates stuff.

Animal Crossing and Winnie the Pooh are China's biggest threats

@JR150 you’re right, animals don’t deserve that brutal treatment but again, if you believe this is actual change then you’re a fool. china will say one thing and do or mean something else entirely. your best bet is to see how the statement benefits them and look there for the real news

@Zuljaras it has nothing to do with china being wealthy (Id also like to know why you believe china runs the world economy, but unrelated). who’s ready for another world war? i’m sure not, and until we can get china to step down their communist gov peacefully war will be required. even if we get every country in the world to confront them they will require military intervention and force to change. and to be clear, this will be an extremely bloody war

@frogopus "the same folk saying "keep politics out of video games" are also saying "keep free speech free," which is just delicious."

Who said that? I wanna laugh at them too.

Well this guy just lost Nintendo a lot of money. It wasn't necessary to use the game for some political crap; go and start a frikin' proper independent online movement or whatever if you really need to.

And, just to be clear, China is being a massive **** about this too and really didn't need to ban the game because of one or even a bunch of activists.

But, people, some random video game that has a bit of customization is not your cue to go and shove your political message and beliefs down everyone else's throats, even if you think the cause it worthy and your intentions are noble.

Let people enjoy their games and do your work to save the world elsewhere.

@impurekind I hear what you're saying. I think that this actually was probably the netter option for the individual protesting since it was easy and is getting publicity easily.

Was it the right decision morally? That's a matter for debate, I can't deny that this was a good move to get quick and easy notice.

It just stinks that China is retaliating by overreacting as per usual.

1:all forms or art, sport and entertainment in general have a long history of using their platform to protest and make a political statement.

Arguing to silence this is code for: I’m threatened by your opinion and don’t know how to make a rebuttal OR your opinion and your oppression have no bearing in my life so I don’t want to hear it.

If people can’t protest using what are considered “appropriate platforms” people will get creative. There needs to be an outlet.

Free speech without rules or consequence is chaos. It means misinformation and all forms of hatred and can run wild. People protesting the concern of eroding democracy where they live using a computer game in my mind is not free speech gone wrong.

@Zuljaras You must hate pretty much all entertainment then as 90% of it has political views and agenda's in it. Its fun seeing the children of today getting very anti political when it appears in something they like while never clicking that most things they like always had politics in it.

@meeto_1 The instant you put rules on free speech, it is restricted speech. I don't think you can have it both ways. I can understand having free speech while also have consequences though. For instance, I wouldn't want to stop someone from ever yelling fire in a movie theater since, there may actually be a fire. I still would like there to be consequences for them yelling fire to cause panic.

@frogopus Fair enough.

@Kalmaro I hear this very hardline take on free speech a lot on some of the American programming I watch occasionally. (Thats in no way an assertion about your nationality just an observation) I find it interesting as a Brit because in most countries including the US you have in place hate laws that do in fact criminalise forms of speech. You can’t go around saying what ever you want. These laws IMO have not created a slippery slope eroding my Speech.

This will only insure a underground market. All China has to do was ignore but making political hay they opened themselves up for more. It only helps more political for the other side when you steep on a landmine. Blocking such games only goes to show you have no good comeback to it.

@meeto_1 Not true. The US Supreme Court ruled that hate speech isn't a legally recognized thing under US law.

Now we unfortunately do have billion dollar corporations attempting to moralize by limiting free speech all the time.

Nintendolife taught me that political speech is bad but hate speech is a constitutional right. This is definitely proof that much of the world has no idea what censorship really is.
You'd all be crying foul if China dared censor your underage anime boobs.

@willi3su sorry, yes you’re right. But My main point to Klamaro stands. That, as someone living in a country where you can’t freely say any racist nonsense That you like (with some exceptions like Boris Johnson) my freedom of speech has not been eroded

@meeto_1 @willi3su beat me to it. We don't have any real hate speech laws. People try to find a way around that though.

Are you saying you have free speech over there in Britain?

@Kalmaro in the UK? Yes.

@meeto_1

Thats great for you. Until the powers that be decide to extend their hand slightly further and further until your speech is no longer considered acceptable. Thats why no government should be allowed to censor. Your speech is acceptable until its inconvenient to those with more political power than you. At that point, you either become a liability to them or you willingly bow lower.

Thankfully, the US doesn't have that problem. At least in government.

@meeto_1 better not say that. Everyone knows that without freedom to be homophobic racists our whole modern system breaks down and the government is going to take all your rights.

@meeto_1 I have to disagree, there are people over there who get fired just by not calling a bearded 6 foot man "ma'am" here

People who get arrested for posting comments against folks of a specific orientation on twitter. here

People getting in trouble over leaflets against people of specific orientation here

Tv personalities getting in legal trouble over racists comments here

Etc etc

The instant rules are in place that restrict speech, free speech does not exist.

@Kalmaro people's words have consequences. You don't want freedom of speech. You want freedom of consequences. It's not the same thing.

@lordzand That's not true at all. I mentioned already that I am fine with consequences.

@Kalmaro So we are using different definitions And ideas of free speech and what it should look like. If you are coming from an absolutist position, fine. The UK doesn’t have freedom of speech. I have access to a Level of freedom to express my opinions including the criticism of religion, government, organisations that I think also safeguards against an individuals right to live without fear of their safety of damaging detriment to their wellbeing. This is subjective but that I feel we have mostly the right balance. I don’t think my inability to say the N word to a black person walking down the street without the possibility of being arrested is a bad thing or the loss of Speech (of value) or the beginnings of fascism.

Wow, it's kind of sad and sickening how many people here are justifying totalitarianism and blaming protesters instead of blaming an Orwellian government for creating a situation in which its citizens are justifiably hostile towards it.

You don't like political messaging in games? Fine. But to outright blame the protesters who simply want, if nothing else, a more robust freedom of speech - it just boggles the mind.

China is an awful hellhole, don’t let the media tell you otherwise

@meeto_1 I think that's where we disagree then.

On one hand, you say you have free speech. Then you point out an example where you are not free to speak something. I don't see how you rationalize that.

Free speech, the way I understand it, is the freedom to express yourself verbally. I think people should have the freedom to do that. That's why I can't say that you have free speech.

I would fight for the ability for someone to call me the n-word, not because I want to be called that, but because once they have their speech limited, what's to stop my own rights to speech from being attacked later?

That's the American way.

@Zuljaras Most entertainment does have a political viewpoint or argument, intentional in design or unintentional in creator bias. It's admittedly much more subtle than your bombastic quoted examples, but just because you can't pick up on it or choose to ignore it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

For your specific questions, you're right, Nintendo typically shies away from this in their very basic stories of good vs. evil, but even the inclusion of gender-fluid characters throughout their series like Zelda and Pokemon is a promotion of normalizing LGBT+, which is simultaneously great/still a political position. (https://medium.com/@devonprice/these-nintendo-characters-are-canonically-transgender-or-nonbinary-516f27317106)

User-created content in these same games is always going to be more-in-your-face about it because of limited tools/skills in the design, but you can, as you suggest, just ignore it.

Instead, outright blaming the protesters instead of what they're protesting being powerful enough to implement such drastic measures, comes across as boot-licking and defeatist.

As Donald Trump says Chiiiinnnnaaaaa !!!

@tedinthepaint Don't forget, American Animal crossing dosen't have boy or girl villagers. Now we just have styles, apparently.

@Kalmaro the people you used as examples had freedom of speech. They were free to do what they did. They weren't free from the consequences of what they say or did. That's how civilized society works. Complete freedom would simply be anarchy as a system of law by nature is there to limit individual expression for the community's safety. I have the freedom to murder someone but I don't have the freedom from the consequences of the murder.

@Entrr_username actually USA is the only country with Freedom of Speech protected by the constitution. Even in other western nations you can be fined or imprisoned for politically incorrect speech. WE really do have it good here. God bless America!

@Brady1138 Sinophobia is not cool,

@Kalmaro the problem is simple. You took the word free and applied an absolute definition. In Many countries people will say they have free speech whilst recognising there are things you can’t say. The people in the articles you linked to are strange examples. You don’t see a problem with someone advocating for the killing of people because they are gay. I mean I could be wrong but coupled with the slight trans phobic comment at the top of your post I would bet a chunk of cash that you are a straight white male who has no idea what it Life would be like to be Verbally attacked because of your skin tone or gender or sexual orientation

My last comment on this topic is this. To say thank god In America you can say what ever you want, whilst citing examples where people face consequences for being racist, is just an indirect way of saying “I think people should be able to say what ever vile derogatory racist stuff they want to people in their community without fear of being prosecuted.” And I can’t help but wonder why.

@meeto_1 "I could be wrong but coupled with the slight trans phobic comment at the top of your post I would bet a chunk of cash that you are a straight white male who has no idea what it Life would be like to be Verbally attacked In a very aggressively because of your skin tone or gender."

You are wrong. I also never said I agreed with anyone mentioned in the articles.

@lordzand Not exactly, they were not free to express themselves verbally without the government trying to silence them.

You can do that in the US, it's up to private businesses to put rules on what you can say.

The difference here is who is administering the consequences. In the US, the government will not involve itself with limiting your free speech, it can't, we have a constitution. Over there, the government can and will.

I have no problems with consequences, my issued lie in where the are coming from.

For example, in Canada there was a comedian fined for making a mean joke to disabled people. That was a consequence from the government.

In the US, if people thought he wasn't funny. The consequence would be he losses money because people don't watch his shows.

@meeto_1

Because freedom of speech for all is great. It keeps things open and honest and allows the light of day to expose who the terrible people are who would say such vile things and allow the reasonable people to change their minds or avoid them entirely. It leaves the freedom up to the people instead of some bureaucracy that can change its standards on a whim.

But for some reason, you wonder if those arguing for maximal freedom are secretly racist.

@willi3su Precisely. You can't expose bad ideas or even possibly change someone's mind if you encourage them to never say what they are thinking.

@meeto_1 Are you saying I'm sinophobist?

@willi3su
it keeps things open and honest:

it allows for a swarm of men to march holding ticki torches spouting racist remarks about Jewish people.

It allows the prime minister to mock Muslim women in the UK

What was the result of this maximal freedom? Increase in anti Semitic violence and death of Jewish people.

A measurable uptick in islamphobia directed at Muslim women.

Those communities didn’t get a chance to distance themselves from the undesirables. In fact they became bigger targets. Those are just two examples. There are so many. This idea that communities have to embrace open hatred so they can put in the work to change their minds or refer them to their enlightened friends is silly. It’s no ones job to do that. If people generally want to learn they come out of their bubble and Find resources.

Pleasant that there's something we all agree on, here.

@Kalmaro I apologise that was an honest mistake and I have edited the comment to reflect that. I am not calling you sinophobic

It was only meant for the other user I tagged. Again, sorry for my mistake.

@Kalmaro Government enforces law. Law exists to limit freedom. Having government limits freedom. It's simple.

@meeto_1

No one said to embrace open hatred. But if you can't see it, how do you know its there? And if you don't know its there, how can you change their minds? But I guess its easier to just have the government stamp it out so you can pretend you live in an idyllic paradise where you never have to confront the unsavory aspects in your fellow man. I'd rather be a part of the solution, thanks. Much more effective than pretending the government can do anything but increase tensions by limiting freedoms. Living in a free society comes with responsibilities to balance the freedoms. But I accept that.

@meeto_1 It's perfectly fine, after i made that post it dawned on me that you may not have meant that.

In any case, I have heard the argument before how having unrestricted speech can lead to violence. I've never seen studies that have proven that though. I could just be ignorant of them, is there one that you are thinking of or an article of some sort?

@lordzand Sortof, however, there are rights that individuals have and we believe in the US that freedom of speech is something the government cannot limit.

All that said, I am 100% for small government, the less they bother me, the better unless it comes to protecting us. I don't think government should be concerned about protecting my feelings from other people, I'm a big boy and comments on my skin color, orientation or beliefs aren't going to ruin my day.

I find it laughable that people are 'disappointed in others for putting political messages in a game'. Maybe you'd feel a little differently if there was the omnipresent threat of a authoritarian regime threatening your livelihood.

@willi3su it’s like you are suggesting my position is of a silly idealist whilst you’re the realist. You think we live in a world where if we identify racist and say the right thing to them, challenge it, have open dialogue then over time the majority will see the error of their ways. Really? We live in a world where ‘alternative facts’ exist where people cling to misinformation even if you show them facts and figures. Some people are racist because they are misinformed some are racist because they like to be.

Let’s not straw man me either. 1: I know a large number of people are racist and or hold racist views about all/certain minorities. I don’t play pretend. What I like is that I go to work and no one at work feels like they can insult me, same at the pub, the restaurants etc.

2: I don’t need the whole world to like me but they will tolerate my presence, my very being. They can have their ignorant view points but they will not openly insult me and use what ever racial slur they like.

Racism can’t be eradicated. It can be muted and the numbers can be limited. You limit the numbers by not giving power to racist ideology. If people can freely spread their racist view points it attracts more to the cause.

It's not censorship, it's just "curration". Stop being so racist.

Funny how a game as harmless as Animal Crossing gets banned by China because it allows freedom of speech.

@meeto_1 Even though we differ on opinions, I respect where you are coming from since we ultimately share the same goal, dealing with violence. We just approach it different ways.

It's my opinion that discourse and having people the ability to express themselves is the best way to do it and i have some examples that can help back that up. All of which can be found in this article here

To sum up the article, when we push people away into dark corners amd limit their speech, what happens is that they just further solidify their positions and things keep spiraling until violence is much more likely to happen.

The best option, then, would be to let them speak and then challenge their views and show to them that they don't have the best position.

I love living in China, and I love living in the USA. I feel very fortunate I can do both. My thoughts on this, not saying they are any better than anyone else's, is that games that are not designed for political or social statements should not be commandeered for political statements. Just let Animal Crossing be the escape from the real world it should be. That's one of the things I didn't like about Splatoon 2 (even though that is still my favorite game), the constant force feeding of of people's sexual self expression. I just want to destroy the other team, your sexuality means nothing to me or this game. Let's just splat!

@Not_Soos Why not, you know just visit them?

What happened to you, China? You used to be cool.

@Kalmaro I haven’t read any studies or seen any articles citing a study making the link between unlimited speech and hate crimes/violence. I have read pieces for example: when our current prime minister wrote a piece in one of our national newspapers and jokingly said Muslim women who wear the veil (where only their eyes are visible) look like letterbox’s. The weeks after this comment there was a noticeable spike in reported hate crime from the Muslim community. This is too much of a coincidence and speaks to the idea that if you make it acceptable to mock groups it logically escalates.

There have also been pieces written about YouTube channels and reddit threads that openly foster various (insert hate) groups and how a large number of the white terrorist acts we have seen in New Zealand, America and Germany over the last few years were part of these groups. I think along with a sweep of far right political parties taking control, it has created a more violent world.

@Kalmaro I don't think I use it the same outside of political opinion, but I see where you are coming from

@meeto_1 I wonder about those increase in hate crimes, since the term is different depending on where it happens. I believe over there, hate speech falls under hate crimes, correct?

@Jayofmaya Lol, yeah a lot of times if someone uses "but", I usually just take the opposite of what they said and change "but" to "because."

I like your meal but its salty.

Becomes

I don't like your meal because it's salty.

Now the truth is out! May not always work but makes things much clearer.

@Kalmaro here we have two distinctive acts: hate incident and hate crimes.

This link does a better job of defining the two
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/what-are-hate-incidents-and-hate-crime/

So to be clear. My example relating to the prime minister, it wasn’t a crime or incident and I don’t think it should be classed as either at all. Having said that, I don’t think it’s appropriate that a member of Parliament, who should represent all citizens equally should be making jokes at the expense of a small minority. I think that even more so having seen the result of such a small comment.

@Zuljaras Are you actually serious? And for the other person saying it’s ‘ruining the fun’ for other Chinese people, they’re protesting against being treated inhumanely by the government. They’re being murdered on the street by the police so why not use whatever means they have to spread their message?

@meeto_1 Yeah, I do agree that it's for the best that they don't say that, largely because it just strikes me as unprofessional.

Thanks for clearing that up though, laws and rules take different shapes in different places so I try not to assume too much.

@nessisonett you are wasting your time. The number of comments on here that essentially say: shut up and don’t ruin our fun is saddening. Completely ignorant or unempathetic to citizens unable to protest for their rights.

They have more empathy for people unable to play a computer game. The world is mad.

This is why Politics are a conversation taboo because of crap like this.

If people can't organize and/or protest oppression normally, they're going to use the tools on hand to do so.

@Zuljaras What? You don't like diversity hires? So racist! /sarcasm

I get the same way when I see people get picked clearly based off skin color but it's not called racist because those people are the "correct" skin color.

If any of those who are complain ing against China and want to support a change over there, seriously stop buying products made in China. If not, your statements are just hollow phrases and a punch in the face of any protesters who risk their lives. Like some here already mentioned, China's power because of production is so big, that other nations just release statements against China with no real consequences. Even "big" Trump is a dwarf against the economic power. As long as China keeps getting richer, the people will dare to bring this government to fall, because the majority of people benefits from this system.

@Zuljaras “I want things separated so there is everything for everyone “ isn’t that the point ? People in Hong Knog cannot write a sign stand outside of a government building and chant their dissent. They can’t go onto a political forum online and dissent. They can’t read a newspaper that is in opposition to the government. They have limited options of voting in officials not signed of by the government. So you and I now know they cannot protest the way we can. So knowing that, how would you like them to protest? Since you don’t want it in animal crossing. Please tell me where it is appropriate?

@Zuljaras The problem is this has absolutely nothing to do with diversity, ‘SJWs’ or anything like that. This is a group of people consistently sh*t upon by a regime who decided to use the tools at hand to make a statement. This is not ‘politics in video games’, the only thing this game allows is free speech. Wouldn’t free speech be beneficial for everyone in this situation?

@JR150 That is a ridiculous statement. The only people ruining things are the Chinese government with their lack of free speech. Games are a form of free speech so if they don't like it they can f off.

Awww boo hoo, fascist, authoritarian Chinese government is triggered.

@doctorhino
Please refer to comment #46 on this page. That comment does not accurately portray my point, and has since been edited.

Ever want to have a relaxing trip to a nice calm island just to escape from the chaos of the world?

Well not if China and PETA has anything to say about it.

Nintendo should create a character that looks just like Winnie the Poo just to watch China go nuclear... Oh, probably a bad choice of words.

Out of curiosity, because people are saying they don't want politics in their game; Does this even show up in your game? The things you build only stay in your town, right?

I don’t really know what freedom of speech is. If I say offensive things on this website for instance I will be reported and banned right? Is that a lack of freedom of speech? Can I walk up to the queen of England and say horrible things to her just because. I would probably be thrown in jail. Can I slag off Donald trump to his face and get away with it? Please don’t ban me x x x x x x x

@Octane
Personally, I wish that video games weren't the last resort for people to use as it paints a negative impression of gaming to the average person who doesn't take time to look into nuances. But more importantly, I wish these people had a way to make their voices heard on a larger, more public scale than a game. But you do what you gotta do.

@Dragonslacker1 yes, yes, no, he probably wouldn't care and secret service would so maybe

This is probably why most Chinese gamers stick to PC, where at least it's easier to bypass these restrictions.

@meeto_1 You had me until your bigoted and totally unnecessary "straight white male" remark. A shame, because you stated your points well until that point. I'm disappointed.

@Kalmaro
Oh, he'd care alright. He's a prime example of someone who can dish it out but can't take it. His skin is thinner than an onion.

@k8sMum What makes you say that?

I wanted to say something on this topic for a while, but since it is a topic that I had already said that I do not want to comment here on a video game web, I better forget it.
And as I see that many people here are giving very accurate opinions and are having a very calm conversation ...

Ah, this last paragraph is sarcasm in case you hadn't noticed.

@victordamazio The funny thing is, most of those who despise the US and are happy to see China prosper are leftist Americans!

@victordamazio The CCP treats its citizens like cattle, censoring imprisoning and oppressing them. There is no rational comparison with the US.

@Dragonslacker1 Freedom of speech is the legal right to voice an opinion without fear of prosecution or imprisonment.

Countries vary in their willingness to allow free speech. USA is mostly hands off. China however routinely imprisons its citizens for speaking out against the CCP.

@Kalmaro you seem to not understand that the myth of absolute freedom the US are built upon is just that, a myth.

I really don't wanna start a long argument, so I'll just point out that a state (or government, or whatever), by its own nature, is born when a community of people give up some of their individual freedom (such as the right to dish out punishment personally and violently, for example) in order to achieve a compromise that benefits everyone.

Some restrictions are necessary and actually benefit the people in the community, such as the aforementioned limitations on violence and personal justice, or on instigating hate and other crimes.
Here in Italy, for example, instigating people with fascist imagery is a crime for obvious reasons, and I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who'd feel restricted by that, aside from obvious neo-fascist.

TL;DR: There is no such thing as absolute freedom and there never was, and if there was we'd call it anarchy.

@clvr I'm not sure why you're arguing a point I didn't make. Not only that, I actually agree with you. I'm perfectly fine with government, I just prefer it be small.

@COVIDberry I don’t think It is bigoted to critique The possibility of someone’s bias being tied to their privilege. I try to recognise my privilege as a male and how it can cloud my ability to be impartial to certain concerns and voices. It’s an ongoing process. My point was that to Have such an indifference to protecting marginalised people from hate speech. Belittling it to nothing more than adults too fragile to hear mean words said to them screams of a person who doesn’t experience it (Directly or properly seeing the damage done to others) and odds are, if your a betting man, a white straight male. And that’s simply because their gender, skin tone and sexuality have never been under attack, not because I think they are inherently More evil or anything nefarious.

I knew better to phrase it this way as I wrote it because I know directly calling this out will turn some people off but I think there is validity to questioning everyone’s privilege and whether it clouds their judgement. But also, I recognise from experience there are a lot of people of colour who also buy into freedom of speech in its absolute form for fear of being perceived weak among other reasons.

@Kalmaro because a lot of your post seem to hinge around this:
"Free speech with rules is not free speech. You can't really get around that.".

If you think that is the case (which is perfectly fine), by your logic no place in the world has free speech or freedom in general.

@clvr "you seem to not understand that the myth of absolute freedom the US are built upon is just that, a myth."
Myth or not does not matter - you will not be sent to labor camp for jokes about the president or government in US. Also, to prevent misunderstanding - I'm in Europe, but was born in USSR, so I know the difference.

@clvr As was stated above, we have free speech based off what I said. The government here will not stop you or try to stop you from expressing your opinion here, no matter what. It's in our constitution.

The same can't be said anywhere else that I'm aware of. There may be other places that I'm just forgetting at the moment.

@Zuljaras
If you buy a game for 60 bucks and it allows you to express yourself it is your platform. That would be like saying people shouldn't write bad stuff in word because they could ruin it for everyone else. The people who want to willingly take money from censoring communists are the ones who need to stand up and turn their backs again.

All China cares about anymore is power, so turning out back on their market reduces their power over the supply chain.

@Kalmaro "The government here will not stop you or try to stop you from expressing your opinion here, no matter what. It's in our constitution."

It's called democracy, and has existed for way longer than the U.S. have. Funny you'd think no other place in the world works like that.

I wouldn't try to justify why this was done or how it could have been avoided. It's a matter of freedom to use a product as you would like. Allowing art to be made in games has always been a theme and just because some people don't like politics in their games doesn't mean you can't use the game to express whatever you want.

If it makes you sad, congratulations, you love freedom too.

@clvr "Funny you'd think no other place in the world works like that."

I don't think that, I just said that I can't think of other places whose government won't try to stop certain opinions from being expressed. I'm perfectly fine with admitting that places may exist and I'm forgetting them.

Did you have a place in mind?

china government releases a virus that targets their enemies including their own people wish karma hits the chinese government soon.

@Kalmaro literally every democracy in the world.

@clvr And your point is a criticism of Americas free speech? This article is a comment on the EXTREME lack-of such liberties in China.

Sounds like you are comparing apples with very rotten oranges

@billybobsmojo excuse me? Where have I even hinted at criticizing free speech and/or America? Not everything has to revolve around the U.S., you know. Don't put words un my mouth, please.

@clvr None are coming to mind still that have free speech. What place are you thinking of specifically?

@Kalmaro Haven't you heard about something like Europe?

I wouldn't take Hong Kong off your hands now even for free.

@clvr Ok...

Your comments are clearly antagonistic towards the US and its people. And you act surprised when people respond negatively? You are either ignorant of your own actions or deliberately trolling.

@monterxz your comment #218 is exactly 100% what I was trying to say, don't know why you had to bring the USSR into the discussion.

@Kalmaro wow...just wow! Sorry, I don't have any problem with you personally, but if you think that it speaks volumes about how self-centered and oblivious to the rest of the world the U.S. are. I mean, I already had a hunch, but to educate your citizens so that they thibk they're champions of freedom and noone in the world comes close is a very very ignorant and dangerous thing to do. Do they even teach European history in the U.S. or just the incredibly short lifespan of your own country? Genuinely curious.

P.S.: again, no harshness meant towards you, it just boggles my mind how little awareness Americans often show towards the rest of the world.

Edit: oh, and I forgot to answer your question: all of Europe for example. Remember that democracy and freedom of speech were theorized here an awful lot of time before the American continent was even "discovered" by the Europeans.

@billybobsmojo you wanna read me antagonizing the U.S.? Read the post above lol
In all seriousness, I never said anything negative about them before that, so stop feeling offended if the U.S. are being mentioned and start thinking critically.
I thought the blind patriotic ignorant American that gets triggered whenever someone hints that the U.S. might not be perfect was just a stupid stereotype, yet here we are.

@clvr So you're saying that the entirety of Europe has free speech?

@clvr Because back then in USSR it was just like now in China. If I had only two options to live in: US and China - I'll chose US. I'm glad I don't have to choose one sh*t hole over another sh*t hole. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but I thought the discussion was still about AC ban.

@Kalmaro Oh, c'mon, in Germany they finally allowed Nazi symbols in latest Wolfenstein game

Seeing an ongoing trend in this comment section that is prevalent nearly every where else. The excuse to use China’s GOVERNMENT to belittle China as a whole. At the same time holding up other countries like they are the blueprint of how democracies should be. There is no comment section big enough to list all the major atrocities committed by the UK or USA both to its own citizens or across the globe. The UN only recently declared parts of America as have similar standards to that of the undeveloped countries. No drinking water and open sewage in some counties. The UK deporting British citizens to Jamaica having lived here 50+ years after their families were invited here.

This fallacy that America is the land of the freedom and free speech is nonsense as well. Yes there’s the constitution but it hasn’t stopped countless administrations from squashing free speech. McCarthism, The civil rights movement, even Assange.

@Kalmaro pretty much, yeah, not sure why that should come as a surprise.
Pretty much any "civilized" country in the world has free speech, it's not exclusive to the U.S..
Off the top of my head, only a couple of countries here in Europe are exceptions to that as they suffered a coup recently.

@monterxz Oh trust me, I know.

@clvr I have a hard time believing that, I was listing a bunch of stuff that happened in the EU in an earlier post amd people were getting fired for not using the right gender, people getting in legal trouble on twitter for expressing certain opinions, etc.

Maybe there's a place in EU with free speech, I just need you to be more specific.

@monterxz oh that was never even in question, my friend!
Maybe I wasn't very clear about what I meant, but of course I'd never choose totalitarian China over the U.S.! I don't even dislike the U.S., it's the opposite really! It's just that I've had this kind of discussion many times in the past and I really can't get over the fact how the American people is "brainwashed" (for a lack of a better term) into believing that they have the most absolute freedom and noone in the world comes close, when

1) there will always be restrictions under any kind of government, otherwise it's anarchy;

2) freedom of speech and democracy have existed for a much longer time than the measly 2 centuries and a half they have;

3) the rest of the world exists and is not in any way inferior to the U.S.;

In general, I'd say a lot of Americans I've had discussions with seem to lack a lot of critical thinking on these matters, but I don't even blame them; rather, I'd blame the educational system that raises people in such a close-minded way. I don't think it's a coincidence so many Americans are so incredibly (almost laughably) patriotic, and a couple of friends of mine (who are from California but came to Europe some 6/7 years ago) shared these same beliefs.

@meeto_1 Any obfuscation of the fact that the Chinese Communist Party is a dangerous institution is either direct or tacit Support of their oppression

The US is not perfect, no country is. Open commentary and criticism is healthy. A freedom not shared in China.

The CCP demands open criticism.

@meeto_1 UK Brexited - they've got what they got. Assange sold himself to Russia, so no pity for him. I'll agree that there is no full freedom in US. But if all China is ok with CCP - they deserve not being able to play AC.

Being able to ban the views you disagree with? That’s Trump’s American dream.

@brandonbwii Ill second that

@Kalmaro dude at this point I seriously don't know what else to tell you.
If you wanna tell me that the place I live in does not allow free speech go ahead and do it, if it makes you feel better about your own country.

Also, sorry, but the examples you brought are anecdotal at best and laughably vague at worst.
I can vouch for at least Italy and Spain (the only two countries I've actually lived in) having free speech, but if it makes you feel better to believe that Europe is some kind of totalitarian nightmare go ahead and stay in your bubble of ignorance.
I tried to be as composed as I could, but after doubting me so many times I'm starting to lose my temper to be honest.

America is great, America is perfect, all other places in the world suck, only you know true freedom. Happy now?

Also, I'd have a bone to pick with the notion that you have perfect freedom there as
1) there is no such thing anywhere in the world (see the restriction argument)
2) think tanks and lobbies exist and spend an awful lot of money to make sure those in power stay in power and the wealthy stay wealthy (this is true everywhere, not only the U.S.)
3) there is absolutely no other option than capitalism, as both your parties work towards that even if in different ways (this is also true outside of the U.S., but still).

So yeah, exactly what I'd call perfect freedom.

Edit: oh, and before someone label me as a "commie" or something, I've never been fond of Marxism or the left-wing, nor am I anti-capitalist. Heck, I've never been fond of politics in general and never considered myself falling into either camp.
I'm simply stating the facts of how the world works today.

@billybobsmojo what’s your point? I defended the Chinese people. Everyday citizens not the Chinese government, so why are you telling me that not shouting out that the CCP is oppressive is supporting them. Can you distinguish people citizens and the government? Because, if not I’m not sure what to make of American citizens if I had to judge them based on Trump, Betsy, McConnel and co.

@Kalmaro "I was listing a bunch of stuff that happened in the EU in an earlier post amd people were getting fired for not using the right gender, people getting in legal trouble on twitter for expressing certain opinions, etc."
Isn't it the same as having troubles for calling black people black in US?

@meeto_1 People are the ones who allow their government to be what it is. I also judge Americans by their government.

@clvr Your posts are littered with bitterness, unwarranted stereotypes and arrogance.

I have lived in the UK for many years and am familiar with your strain of impotence and self loathing.

You are an Ignorant Troll then.

@monterxz exactly! I'd like him to name one European country with racial problems as deep and rooted in society as the U.S..
I mean, racism is a huge problem in many countries here, too (Italy included), but I wouldn't equate booing and throwing a banana at a football player of color to the police straight up shooting them.

@billybobsmojo "impotence and self-loathing" 😂😂😂😂😂

Sorry but the UK and Italy have quite different cultures, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Also, funny of you to accuse someone of arrogance when you can't take criticism leveled at your country.
I think I can list at least half a dozen real huge problems I have with my own country just off the top of my head, but hey, I guess not everyone is capable of critical thinking!

It's also funny that you call me a troll when my reasoning is way more articulated than yours, but whatever!
I don't think I'll reply to you anymore if you don't bring some concrete arguments instead of crying out troll and berating me.

@meeto_1 The Chinese GOVERNMENT demands criticism.

@monterxz Sortof but the difference is that any trouble you get into in the US for that kind of stuff isn't enforced by the government.

Someone could insult me dor my skin color here at my job and the worse I could do probably is tell HR.... and that could, at the worse, MAYBE get them fired.

@billybobsmojo UK is not Europe, UK Brexited

@meeto_1 you're basically a fascist

@clvr Sheesh you really do have a chip on your shoulder.

My only point here is that the CCP should not be ignored or excused.

Any attempt to do so is suspicious

@monterxz True that

@billybobsmojo Listen, dude, I've never even talked about China, let alone excused them.
The only time I've mentioned China is this:

"oh that was never even in question, my friend!
Maybe I wasn't very clear about what I meant, but of course I'd never choose totalitarian China over the U.S.! I don't even dislike the U.S., it's the opposite really!"

Learn to f*****g read the comments people post before pestering them. You're getting obnoxious.

@Kalmaro Ok, how about being accused of being a sexual offender by putting your hand over girl's hips or inviting her to your appartment for wine and cheese?

@Kalmaro setting aside the underlying moral question, what makes you think that it works differently here?
Because I can assure you that in Italy it doesn't.
Do you have any kind of evidence for your baseless claims? What is it that informs your distorted beliefs?
I mean, monterxz and I have been telling you for hours now, why won't you just budge and admit you're wrong?
It's not the end of the world, if anything it makes you and intelligent and reasonable person.

@clvr This article is about the CCP reaction to free speech.

And your response is to question the scope of what free speech means? And in particular you use America in pretty much all of your arguments. Painting it as a nation of fools.

Im sorry if you feel I am coming off as “obnoxious” but your commentary makes you sound like a CCP Stooge.

I feel being “obnoxious” is an appropriate response to an institution that would like to limit my freedom.

@billybobsmojo He's just arguing with the guy, who says there is no free speech anywhere in the world, except US. He called China totalitarian so he can't be a CCP stooge (he would be on his way to a labor camp if he were in China)

It's time for the Texas secession movement to answer: "Free Texas!" What about Scottish independence? Or should we use Animal Crossing to post anti-government slogans in Catalonia? Oh, wait, it's another case - West countries can't be wrong in protecting their territorial integrity.

@clvr Wrong about what exactly? It sounds like you're trying to accuse me of a claim I may not have ever made.

@monterxz What does that have to do about freedom of speech?

@oji Could you please give us an example about someone being prosecuted for calling for Catalexit? I'm sure you can do it and Spain will not ban AC. Not sure about Scotland - UK were always jerks for not being in Schengen.

@Kalmaro It has everything to do with freedom of expression, speech is only one of that.

@monterxz What? No, free speech is about the freedom to express your opinion and not worrying about the government trying to stop you or limit.

Unless you're using sign language, your hands should not be involved.

@Kalmaro Why not? I'm an artist - my hands express much more than words. Also, I don't speak local language.

@monterxz Well yes, there's a difference between using art as a medium to express your opinion and to physically touch someone.

Now, you did say accuse, did you mean someone lying about being assaulted? That's not expressing opinion either.

@meeto_1 so much this, 100% agree with you!
It's sad to see people so sanctimoniously celebrating their country as champions of freedom and purity, when no one is.
History is indeed written in blood, and those who pretend not to see this are only fooling themselves.

@clvr Who is saying anyone is the champion of freedom and purity? Please show me who said that.

@billybobsmojo dude read the freaking discussion instead of jumping in midway through! I was talking to another user who was speaking about freedom of speech and I questioned his views, simple as that.
Read the freaking comments instead of jumping to conclusions, otherwise you'll look like a fool (in this case, too late).
By the way I won't reply to you anymore, if you can't get a basic grip of the matter that's been discussed I'm sorry but I can't help you anymore. I've repeated it enough times by now.

@monterxz thank you a lot! This guy is seriously driving me crazy.

@Kalmaro Neil Degrasse Tyson - one resent name from news comes to mind. It's absolutely normal to touch others here

@monterxz Okay, I'm aware of that in incident, I'm still not sure what this has to do with the freedom to express one's opinion.

I think I'm missing what point you are getting at

@Kalmaro "Sortof but the difference is that any trouble you get into in the US for that kind of stuff isn't enforced by the government."

The word "difference" implies that you think this is the case in other parts of the world (Europe in this case, if context is of any help), when it's not. Hence the word "wrong".

@Kalmaro "Who is saying anyone is the champion of freedom and purity? Please show me who said that."
That wasn't even meant for you, but for the guy, who tried to separate China from CCP

@clvr That's why I said earlier that I'm not aware of any places where that isn't the case. You mentioned the EU and I brought up examples where the government did enforce limiting speech.

Which is why I asked for a specific place in the EU. When you get into legal trouble from the government because you expressed your opinion on a group of people based on their race or orientation you don't have free speech.

@monterxz Ahhh, okay, carry on.

Ok, good night everyone, it was an entertaining discussion and I had some laughs, but I'm going to sleep.

@Kalmaro #261 "As was stated above, we have free speech based off what I said. The government here will not stop you or try to stop you from expressing your opinion here, no matter what. It's in our constitution.
The same can't be said anywhere else that I'm aware of. There may be other places that I'm just forgetting at the moment."

And subsequently doubting me saying the opposite for the next 3/4 comments. Is that enough or do I have to keep quoting you?
Cause I feel you've made it clear that Americans enjoy some kind of elated freedom that the rest of the world can only dream of, and that is quite...well, delusional.

Plus, pretty much that obnoxious bob whatever dude said.

@Kalmaro dude I just told you that is not true but you keep on.
Okay, it's a lost battle, you just won't believe me.
Wanna teach me how my country works? Go on, then.
I'm out.
I feel like I've been talking to a wall for the past few hours.
I'm sorry, I tried to reason and I know you're a reasonable person (unlike the other dude), but I'm profoundly let down.
I really don't know how else I could tell you the same things AGAIN.

@clvr Are you saying the articles I mentioned didn't happen? Did you even look at them? I can list them again though it looks like you're already convinced.

I have no problem listing my sources for why i believe what I do.

That went on for a long time. I mean everyone agrees if China wants to censor a game and they get their way it is bad. No good can come of taking away people's abilities to express themselves in a non destructive type of way. I know they try to justify it to seem like simple stuff like this is destructive but we are smarter than that.

@doctorhino Yeah, I think we may have gone off topic a little bit with the free speech deal. It is what it is.

@Kalmaro it's all good, just wanted to say I think at the end of the day we all want the same thing.

@Trajan based on what? Give me one example citing a sentence or view point that I have clearly expressed in this comment section that would suggest I’m a fascist. People who simply make statements like this without citation are nearly always offended that someone would have an opinion different to theirs and are unable to challenge it. Then they use words to which they don’t understand the meaning.

@Noid Pretty silly statement really.. We don't get drilled with liberty, and freedom propaganda.. More like propaganda about how socialism is good, or not that bad, or some silly SJW crap.. Many Americans aren't even interested in freedom, or liberty. Most just want to be taken care of by the government, basically they want to be slaves.. Immigrants, especially from countries like China, respect freedom, and liberty more because they know what its like, to not have it. Then it must worry them, when they hear so many idiots in America, so willing to throw it away.

@Noid you say that from the comfort of your free country.

@Nedjunk I 100 agree with you.

Anyone here who thinks America are not JUST AS BAD as China are delusional and brain washed in their own way.

The US are exactly the same, they just do it to foreign countries like the Middle East, Central America and large parts of Asia.

They are just as xenophobic and warmongering as the Chinese, more so even considering nobody benefits more from arms sales than the US and UK.

@Razer why did this turn into a US bash session? The US are not the one banning media in this case. You guys come on here with your idealistic point of view but add nothing to the conversation but more hate. This is between a Japanese game company and China. Geez

Nedjunk is pretty clearly standing up for the communist party by making a mockery of the people of Hong Kong like they don't own their own movement.

@Nedjunk That red article was difficult to read, there was a lot of stuff there I didn't understand at all.

"Venezuela’s empty supermarket shelves, a result of capitalist sanctions, supposedly prove that capitalism is the only system that can efficiently provide for people’s needs. "

What? Their empty shelves are due to capitalism? The article doesn't even provide references so they expect you to just accept everything they say. That was more of an opinion piece.

Same for the economics website. A bunch of claims but nothing to back them up. I will say that I much prefer being able to elect someone who holds my values vs someone who can just test well.

@Kalmaro you are my favorite commentator on this site, always a joy to read. thank you for that.

@Corum Happy to be of service 👍

@gurnard892417 They didn't say what? I copy pasted the quote I made from the article. They are trying to blame capitalism for them having empty shelves currently. I don't understand that at all.

Personally, I believe the use should be more focused on tending to the people in the US since we have so many cases right now. Then we can worry about playing world doctor.

I especially have problems with giving money to governments that steal and horde it all.

@gurnard892417 Alright, first things first. I don't know you, I'm not one of your friends, I'm someone online who decided to hold a polite conversation with you because I felt like it.

As such. If you expect me or anyone to even want to bother acknowledging your responses, you've got to learn to give people a little more respect.

I was referencing the redflag article that gives no sources and my post was from the same article.

Looking at the articles you've edited into your comment, what I'm seeing a lot of is stuff I don't agree with, I even saw Soros' name mentioned which raised some massive red flagged.

That said, they keep mentioning the US doing this amd that. It looks like that's a simplification, the people they mention who are contributing seem to be almost exclusively democrats. I'll have to look over the names again.

@gurnard892417 I never said I didn't want to talk to you, just that your tone was abrasive for no reason.

I'm not really that worried about your political leanings, I actually prefer talking to people who lean different from me because I like hearing different viewpoints.

China needs to stop giving me reasons to hate it.

@penamiguel92 But that and Covid-19 are it's best exports!

@Zuljaras It is his island, and judging by his friends, I'm pretty sure they all loved the message.

@JR150 It is exactly their fault their country sucks.

@gurnard892417 How did we get on this tangent again? I just noticed your edit.

@F1R3F1Y
I meant the residents, the people living there.

@gurnard892417 Your constantly edited comment is full of so many assumptions that it's difficult to know where to start.

Most Americans believe the media? Is there a study you're looking at or something? I don't even bother with the news and most of the people I hang out with take it with a grain of salt.

The older crowd probably believes the news more.

You see... when you combine what I call the "Coronavirus effect" and the charming social experience that is Animal Crossing: New Horizons, I see an advancement on the humanity that you probably won't understand. So don't talk about this until Tencent and Nintendo officially speak and release this game there, which, by the way, has enamoured many Chinese players with its social aspects!

.....Oops... um... you shouldn't have read this, so you saw nothing, okay? Pretend this comment doesn't exist until many months have passed.

@gurnard892417 Literally eveything you claim to be a bad thing is legitimately a good thing. Never trust a country who puts Muslims and Christians in internment camps. Stop being brainwashed and open your eyes again.

@doctorhino I did, it’s all BS

@meeto_1 It's spelled "Xenophobia"

And no, commenting on how terribly a government is handling their country and keeping their people in their own Hell that the government created is not "Xenophobia"

@Brady1138 it depends on the deeper motives. If i hear a neo nazi make smack comments about muslim record of human rights, it's mostly because they want to attack rather than care about the victims.

Never trust a country that lies about it and is going through thucydides trap. And the top people who bombs infrastructure and muslim people in the middle east with loose claims of WMDs. Aka USA.

Plus I follow tech news and there is always loud western media claims of China's huawei having backdoors or bloomberg with spy chip but without any evidence given to make them.

Hence a good but underreported reason why so many muslim countries back china and the UN itself did not report that China has ‘massive internment camps.

Because firstly the evidence comes from an american gov backed group with a unusual small sample study and also by Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist christian and believes he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China.

He sourced his report from a tv show that often broadcast ETIM a terrorist org with ties to al-Qaeda designated by the US, European Union, and UN Security Council’s Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee.

ETIM is also a separatist group that aims to establish an independent homeland in Xinjiang called East Turkestan. But he just cherrypicks unreliable sources and presents their biased words to spin his agenda.

https://twitter.com/ajitxsingh/status/1208861916329889794?s=20

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

@Brady1138 a bit late to the conversation. I’m going to use this to excuse your selective arguments. There are a number of posts on here that go beyond criticising a government which I’m completely in favour of. Institutions of power should always be criticised when they hurt everyday people. But generalising an entire people In a derogatory way and mocking their eating Habits etc is definitely under the realm of xenophobia.

Quick lesson for you: xenophobia when applied to Chinese people is called sinophobia. And you thought you delivered a sick burn by correcting my spelling. That’s gonna sting for a while. Splash your face with some water and take a deep breath. Problem solved. You’re welcome.

@Brady1138 From the USA taking the moral high ground talking about interment camps and not blushing whilst their own government separates children from parents in make shift cages killing a few in the process. Mostly Latin American so we can surmise they were most likely Christians. Just not the right shade of Christian so “oh well”

@meeto_1 What? Wait, we aren't just separating kids for the fun of it. A lot of the people coming over with children aren't even the kid's parents, they just snatched them up.

That and, its typically frowned upon to pit children in jail with people we aren't even sure are their relatives.

If the children die, it's due to the people dragging them for who knows how many miles through the desert to get to the US. That's not our fault.

Putting political messages in games will make people argue nonstop. Looking at the comment section, it's already like witnessing republicans quarreling with liberals. Instead of a place for games, it's a stage for heated populism and arguing on ideology.

I also see protests in sydney where mainlander natiinalists quarrel against hong kongers natvists in the public. Trading insults. Both sides are unwilling to see each other side and fight over whether western democracy is better than china's meritocracy model.

Rarely do people on either sides ever agree which it is, as people are way too partisan. It would be nice to have constructive arguments but that just seems unlikely.

@Kalmaro and now for Chinese propaganda using the exact same template:

“Wait what? We are not just putting Muslims in camps for the fun of it. Some of them are terrorists and we have to unteach this behaviour.

Most of them aren’t true Chinese patriots and if some of them die during their re-education that isn’t our fault.”

So an influx of men and women stole random children (in large numbers) to Game the refugee system. You happily buy all the reports that say ‘China bad’ but only select the reports from the mainland that say ‘but refugees also very bad do not trust’

and kids in the care of the richest economy have no guarantee to life? And we can trust all this because the government openly let reporters and members of the senate have access to check on the facilities and the well being of those people? Or did they deny access and give very limited oversight similar to the Chinese government, almost as if they had something to hide? Sorry but your argument reads like something written by fox or briettbart. Hyper biased, completely illogical.

@Kalmaro next you will tell us the Japanese Americans who found themselves in interment camps weren’t actually American citizens but thousands of spy’s sent to infiltrate America.

@meeto_1 Those two situations are not remotely similar. The people coming over with children are coming with no identification in a lot of cases so we have to make sure those children were not kidnapped.

We also can't help the conditions the children are in before they get to us, that would be the fault of the parents for dragging the children with them with the hope that having a child will give them a free ticket to the US... Which was a thing for a while and led to kids s being trafficked just for that reason.

There was one story that the democrats used for a while where a kid died after they came into Ice custody. They later dropped it when it was discovered the adult drug them here with almost no water and the kids went into seizures from heat stroke and died.

Also, we've had people in those facilities before, they've been checked out. I'm not sure why you think they haven't been. If you're saying that something bad is happening, that's on you to prove it, which you seen to be admitting that you can't.

@kalmaro https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/07/11/written-testimony-kids-cages-inhumane-treatment-border

And again like with that small negative trans comment you wrote during our ‘what does freedom of speech’ mean you are starting to show your bias whilst trying to display pure impartiality who is only interested in the facts. The whole: dragging kids to the border to get a free ticket into America. It’s a silly argument that’s so illogical. It either denies refugees as being legitimate or it argues that adults should seek refuge for themselves and leave children alone in an area they deem unsafe for their own family. I guess the men should arrive first and leave the women and children. Or maybe the women should go alone so the man can look after the children. Also I may be wrong, but wasn’t it reported that a lot of these refugees turned up at legal points of entry to declare themselves refugees only to spend weeks in cages. So they followed the American protocol correctly but you still suggestively make them out to be criminal phonies.

Small negative trans comment?

You said : The whole: dragging kids to the border to get a free ticket into America. It’s a silly argument that’s so illogical

The issue I have with the article can be summed up here:

"Children, including some with mental health concerns, were separated from non-parental guardians by Border Patrol, classified as “unaccompanied alien children,” and detained alone.[13] Meanwhile, their adult family members were sent to Mexico for the duration of their lengthy asylum cases."

So kids are being brought here by people who are not their parents. If you want more...

Here's an article from 2018 talking about children being kidnapped.

Here's one going into more of the trafficking problems.

Here's a specific example of people being busted for trafficking.

This is why kids are being separated, you can't trust anyone who just says they are related. We have to look into every case.

None of that excuses treating children poorly like all of the examples cited in that article. End of.

America has a duty of care to refugee children. And it was poorly handled. My original point is that America is no stranger to rounding people up and caging them. dont like the most recent example? then go with the Japanese internment camps.

Still can’t work out why children can only seek asylum with their parents and not extended family. Especially in the case you cited where the adult was acknowledged as a family member and was released into America so wasn’t suspected of wrong doing. But I’m afraid the answer won’t make any sense.

Anti trans comment: you referred to the trans women dismissively as a bearded-man. But again, like the articles you gravitate towards you can’t acknowledge your bias and try to argue from a fake position of impartiality but it comes through. The whole “we don’t hate refugees just the ones who do it incorrectly.“

I know my biases and argue my position because of them.

@meeto_1 "None of that excuses treating children poorly"

When did I even hint that I was okay with that? You basically said that kids being snatched up and taking to the border didn't happened. I showed that it does, that's all.

"America has a duty of care to refugee children."

We have a duty to ourselves first, especially right now due to the pandemic. We still have veterans on the streets that need help, we can't just drop everything just because someone comes over saying that they brought their child and need help. Plus, when we do try to take the child amd do what we can we get demonized so... no, most of those people are passing through Mexico to get here and mexico is an approved place for refugees last time I checked.

"Still can’t work out why children can only seek asylum with their parents and not extended family."

They can, my point was that we had people coming in with children they were not related to, which is kind of a big deal.

"Anti trans comment: you referred to the trans women dismissively as a bearded-man."

No, if you read the article you'd know that the Doctor said that, I just quoted him.

I don't cate about people having biases, I just ask that they justify them logically.

I don't even know why we're talking about this anymore. The topic is about China and how they control everything. You wouldn't catch me going there, they wouldn't want me anyway. They just started banning people from McDonalds based on race.

I just found out that if you still want to buy it, all you have to do is contact the store customer service and tell them you ant animal crossing.. they will tell you to buy other game and ship animal crossing to you.

@GUSWANG you in HK or mainland?

@doctorhino In China