Nintendo's "Illegal" Pre-Order System Issue Has Been Passed On To German Authorities

Also I can honestly say that it never occurred to me that not allowing cancellation of digital preorders was illegal...

They seem to want to approach this the same way they approach their costumers desperate requests - by completely ignoring them.

This is a no-brainer. Nintendo has to follow consumer laws. I'm amazed it's gotten away with it so far.

Ah well, I almost never pre-order anyway, and this is one of the many reasons.

Nobody's making anybody preorder games...

I wonder if this will affect pre loading software. Will Nintendo want to use bandwidth to send gigs worth of data to someone that cancels at the last minute?

Always the same story, EASY MONEY !

Pre-ordering a DOWNLOAD totally makes no sense (unless you net a discount that way). I mean, downloads won't run out. You can always download them day 1, if you have the funds.

Pre-loading doesn't make much sense either. Sure, the game loads so you can start to play immediately on launchday. But if the whole game has already been downloaded, why not opening it up for the player to play it immediately (I mean, well before launch)?

@FantasiaWHT that's irrelevant to the topic.

This is something I believe Nintendo has to change. I do preorder several games I but always hold the option to cancel. In fact, I just went through a massive cancellation binge cancelling all but one title this month. I can understand why some people may preorder digital copies, although you’d have to have a specific set of circumstances or be very desperate the play said game to do so.

@Henmii To be fair though, preordering in general makes very little sense for videogames, unless it's a inherently rare - not just technically limited - run for a collectors edition or such. I'd go so far as to say that preordering is a cancer on the industry, as it allows companies to get away with shipping broken products.

I don't understand the point in pre-ordering a download anyway?

I pre-order all my games. I never walk out of my house to buy overpriced games. I always pre-order online, and they usually get to my house a day or two before release.

I know Europe has always been a tough region for Nintendo, but this is crazy!

@Ralek85 Please stop using the word cancer for things like this.

@AcridSkull Whether laws should be wasted protecting people from themselves is very much on topic.

Being from the UK, all I can say is 'thank you brexit!

@CCore28 I agree. It is illegal in Europe like many things that Nintendo says or does. They ignore the law in here, why do they get away with it? Just ban the eShop here until they fix that, you can bet they will fix it in one hour once it affects them and not their consumers that apparently Nintendo don't care about.

@Ralek85,

Getting broken games out of the door is of course never good. But the point is, more and more games get printed in very small quantities. Result: You go to the shop and find nothing. Pre-orders can work there.

I personally order my games nowadays online, maybe 1 or 2 days before launch. Not a real pre-order I guess. For a Zelda I may make a exception, but I won't order a year in advance.

@Krull just goes too show how much consumers mean to them,

The only issue I can see with this are pre-download preorders.

As someone could hack it, copy the files, cancel the preorder, and then start the game with access on release.

Serves them right. They've got a lot to fix in regards to their online services. Like locking purchases to one console, rather than your account.

Wait so they had this complaint earlier this year and decided to just ignore it thinking they can just keep on doing this even though it's clearly against the law ? That's not only beyond stupid, but also plain ignorant.

I have pre ordered a few digital games on the switch. My understanding is that you can play on release day. But even though the game is already downloaded on the system, I still can play on release day. I've tried on midnight with a couple releases and both checked but wasn't able to. Until sometime in the morning. Haven't pre ordered since.

@eaglebob345 what do you mean exactly? You can play your downloaded games on different system, you only need to set the system up as the primary console

@Henmii Pre-ordering gets you freebies sometimes, makes games ready at launch (not everyone has fiber-optic internet) and more.

If we talk about physical editions, I pre-ordered many on Wii U because a) they were limited editions b) it looked at that time that you wouldn't get your copy otherwise.

The practise may be illegal, but buying something online is never something you should be indecisive about.

@CCore28 According to the article, it is considered illegal in Europe. Nintendo will likely comply.. Hopefully that means they'll implement the same policies for the Americas and Asia.

My personal opinions on preordering aside, Nintendo should have and needs to comply

I guess the only reason to preorder digital is fear of bandwith limits of everyone trying to download at launch?
Now physical makes a bit more sense as that can run out, and may well if it's something popular.

@Anguspuss EU will have to ban the eShop and their online stores for Nintendo to even listen to anybody else. One hour later pre-orders will be refundable.

@Edromes On Xbox you can see the time you can play at before you pre-order. Crash Bandicoot was available at midnight.

I wasn't aware until I read about this story that EU law requires a right to refund. (I'm in the States) While I haven't pre-ordered a digital title myself, I have noticed some titles offer either a small discount, or extra gold points for doing so. Perhaps Nintendo didn't act on the NCC complaint because they want a higher court to determine a ruling? That's what plaintiffs here do sometimes, unless an injunction is filed in a lower court until the next escalation.

I don't know much about the other companies. How is Nintendo's policy worse than theirs?

The issue here is whether Nintendo's practice is legal or not, not whether random Internet users think it's a good practice.

@FantasiaWHT
Laws are not a finite resource, they cannot be wasted.

These laws are made to protect people from being taken advantage of. Valve was fined for misleading consumers as to their rights in Australia, there's no reason why Nintendo shouldn't have to comply with the laws of the EU.

Good. About time Nintendo's illegal practice is stopped.

@KingMike Bandwidth caps aren't usually a thing in Europe. I've never heard of it at least. It's a thing for mobile networks, but home network is always unlimited.

It’s not a preorder....it’s a prepurchase.....totally different thing...you pay for the game right away....they even say when you add funds that you can’t get a refund. A Preorder is something where you don’t put any money down when you order something that isn’t out yet. With a pre-purchase, you are paying for the game right away so you can play after it you download a small portion of the game....if you prepurchase a game on the eShop you shouldn’t be able to cancel it.

A case like this proves how sensible and correct EU rulings are. Shame the small minded xenophobic country people I share a nation with voted leave.

Although we will end up keeping all the EU laws anyway. Without any of the benefits.

Thanks Boris, Nige and That Bus...

@ZombieGavinS I didn't know it was either. But then its never occurred to me to pre-order digitally.

@Pokefanmum82
It may say you aren't entitled to a refund, but if the law states otherwise then the law comes first

@Ralek85 I don't see why pre-ordering physically doesn't make sense? Some people do the layaway thing, some know that a company is prone to sucky distribution, some live in an area where they either have few decent stores to carry it, or have to go out of their way to get it. Some just like to know that it secures you a copy

@shaneoh. Agreed. Its not an unreasonable law.

@shaneoh Actually there's a lot of research showing that the more laws there are, the less effective they are because it becomes harder and harder for anybody to actually comply with them - or even know what they are. Nobody who is alive today has any clue just how many laws and what laws they actually are subject to because there are so many.

As to your second paragraph, my point isn't about compliance, it's about whether we need stupid laws like this in the first place.

@Pokefanmum82 A pre-order and a pre-purchase, as you weirdly call it, are exactly the same. And even if they were different, the law affects both of them.

@Pokefanmum82. You pay for the game right away on the eshop anyway. And pre-orders in the states means that you have to pay it off then and there, or at the very least, put down 5 dollars and have it paid off before the item is released.

@BlueOcean Any particular reason why? Like I said, I feel preorders do drive a self-destructive process within the industry, so I feel the term is rather fitting. I mean, it's not just preorders, obviously, but they do play a significant role here in my opinion. I'm afraid that if you want me to censor my language, you'd have to give me a really good reason to do so - though I do appreciate that you decided to ask nicely!

@Ralek85 Because that is a very serious illness. Just don't use it as a metaphor.

@FantasiaWHT
Well if you think those laws are stupid, then I have some of this wonderful snake oil for you. A guaranteed remedy for all your ills. How many bottles can I put you down for?

@CCore28 it’s okay with me because if I was doing that, prepurchase got something on the eShop, I have already committed to paying for the game and have no plans in backing out of buying it. If I think that I might cancel the game, then I preorder a physical copy.....and most places I preorder from in Canada give an option to cancel it before it ships.....because they don’t charge the credit card until the game ships.....

They could do with rewording the normal digital purchase notice while they're at it - "I consent that Nintendo begins with its performance before the cancellation period ends." Could be clearer.

@Pokefanmum82 If it's okay for you then don't use your rights but let the rest of the world have theirs.

@Henmii Really? What kinda games are we talking about? I'm not really up-to-date on this, as I haven't bought a physical game since late into the last gen (except for BotW, as I got that with a 30% discount off amazon, while the digital version is still $60 and I liked the idea of "owning" that particular game, plus the you can always have one game in the Switch slot no problem), but I do occasionally browse stores, online and offline, and if we're talking major titles, I never got the feeling, that there were any kind of shortages. To the contrary actually, despite PSN running decent discount and sales every other week and well, Steam obviously, I got the sense that in many instances, physical games come down in price way faster than digital ones. If there was more demand than supply then ... that would make no sense.

I do know that there are things like 'Limited Run Games' releases, that - as the name implies - are truly not available in vast, near endless supply with reprints if demand holds up, but outside that ... I am genuinely curious I gathered that there was really high supply for BotW, with the game selling way more copies than there were Switch systems sold (which to be fair was hard to anticipate for Nintendo), but that is certainly an outlier if there ever was one!

@shaneoh Your metaphor is awful. The cynics are the ones who DON'T fall for the snake oil scams. It's the trusting fools who do.

@Tempestryke Yeah? I can see that for certain smaller publishers pushing out niche titles, possibly yeah, or as I said above Limited Run Games for instance, and obviously, the aforementioned collectors editions, but when did you ever run into trouble to secure yourself a copy of Fifa, or Call of Duty, or Fallout or any of the big releases that actually do move big numbers and have an impact on how the industry at large handles their business. If your local store doesn't carry an item, you can always order online, can't you? Or wait for a restock ... again, unless it is a really, really small title, who got one run and that is it.

I'm generally very much opposed to pre-order, buit sure, IF there is a reasonable necessity for it, then sure, go ahead, but would be too much to ask, to really bother assessing that and if not ... holding off on it. Companies only care about the bottom line and if a broken sequelXYZ sees preorders going through the roof, that sends a truly bad message to publishers ... no twitter [removed] is gonna undo that kinda damage any time soon I'm afraid. There is only voting with our wallets ... or there is no vote at all =(

@FantasiaWHT
Doesn't negate my apt point. These laws are there to protect people from dishonesty. Especially those who couldn't make an informed decision if they tried.

To be fair I doubt they're doing it to capture people's money, especially since digital isn't even Nintendo's primary sales platform. In Nintendo's case I would be it has more to do with their obsolete shopping cart systems and not wanting to add all the complexity of cancellations/refunds into the system. Though at least it's not broken like Sonys. I.E. laziness more than extortion.

@Ralek85 Indeed! Originally it made sense, as there were always shortages of games on release...just like hardware, a manufactured good required guesstimating demand and they'd end up making too few or too many, and/or misallocating them with where demand would be. Preorders ensured everyone who wanted a copy got a copy. For stores like Gamestop that on launch day only get 1-3 copies of a given game it really makes sense. If 5 people walk in on launch day and want one, 2-4 are going to walk out empty handed (and probably order from Amazon.) It does serve a purpose for physical, but it's been abused so badly. For digital there's not even slightly a purpose. Only digital preorders I've ever done were Mario Tennis Aces because they were running the bonus points promo for preorders, ESO: Summersett because preorders included the full base game + Morrowind free (and I technically "pre-ordered" like 3 hours before launch because that's when I discovered the sale ), and Shenmue 1 & 2 since it's a few bucks off. Discounts for promised orders is fair.

Yeah, Fifa, CoD, Fallout at retail probably won't run out. But when it comes to niche games and Nintendo games, at least here in the US, often stores get less than 6 copies on hand, and if you didn't preorder, you're likely out of luck. Nintendo releases, especially 3rd party often get less than 3 copies per store.

OTOH I fully agree that it was the rise of preorders that really allowed the industry to turn into the mess it is regarding broken games, incomplete promises and "ship it broken, fix it if it sells well."

@BlueOcean Honestly, I don't really want to debate this, but no, I'm not quite feeling that. I have two extended family impacted myself and still ... it's a legitimate term to use in a metaphor. It's not outlawed because it is linked to human suffering. If anything it may be in some ways inappropriate for something that relates to gaming, sure, that is something one could reasonably argue, but it would still in no way justify a general "don't use that term please" stance.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I am also unwilling to go out of my way to intentionally modify my language to make sure no one could possibly be offended or hurt. I felt I did my due dilligence in going out of my way in pointing out that it was not a comparison aka "exactly as devastating to the human experience as having to suffer a life-threatening disease" but a metaphor. That ought to be good enough.

You can always choose to ignore me, but it's not like I use the word in any comment or such. I'm not sure I ever used it before in a comment around here, so ...

@Ralek85 Considering I don't play the games you mentioned, I wouldn't know. However, I'll indulge you. I live in an area with no fewer then 4 GS nearby, 1 Walmart, 1 Best Buy and at the time, 1 TrU. BotW is a Zelda game, which is a top selling Nintendo franchise, which is something I was fairly certain I can always be sure of finding easy-peasy. It took us months to find in stores. I don't want to think what a pain it might have been for people who live in rural areas. Plus no one is forcing you to pre-order. And for me with a smaller income and being a scrooge, I like the layaway option.

@Ralek85 It's offensive to many people but it's up to you to respect them or not.

@Henmii
sometimes it does make sense to pre order downloads. I pre-order the digital versions of Megaman X Collections to pre download it, because I will be on vacation when they get released. And in order to play the collections on vacation, I have to download it now, because I don't know how fast the download speed will be, but I am pretty sure that it will be fast enough to check if I can play it.

@ZombieGavinS EU has consumer protection laws like that, much like the 14-days return policy. One of the good things about EU.
Not being able to cancel a preorder is consumer unfriendly on its own. Being outright illegal is a bonus.

If I can go on either Amazon or PSN and pre-order a game and a month down the line decide to cancel it without a hitch, I should be able to do the same thing on the eShop.

The only reason the mandatory ability to cancel a pre-order exists is to protect parents who have snobby kids that will steal a credit card to pre order a game. Whereas the parent should be making the ultimate decision on such things.

@FantasiaWHT wow, what a thoroughly interesting way to interpret this.
People absolutely have a right to change their mind about a product that has not yet been delivered.

@Ocedius. Good point.

@shaneoh I agree if Nintendo is lying and saying you can get a refund but you can't, that's a problem. That's fraud on the consumer. But we don't need laws saying companies can't have non-refundable preorders. If you don't want a non-refundable preorder, don't get a non-refundable preorder. We don't need laws protecting us from ourselves.

@Octane It varies elsewhere. Someone was telling me in Canada caps are really tight and standard 30GB/mo or so. In the US most ISPs are "unlimited" but "unlimited" generally means "unless you use too much, but we won't tell you how much is too much, but you'll get a letter from legal and threats to disconnect you if you hit it, so just try to not use it much at all."

Some smaller ISPs have hard caps. And Comcast, the biggest one in the US overall, used to have caps but then got rid of them and then instituted a "data plan" which consists of 1TB/mo. But it's still unlimited....you just get charged $10 per 10GB up to $200 for any overages, or a flat $50/mo extra for "actual" unlimited that still means "unless you use too much."

That's the #1 ISP in the US by size. And Guillemot thinks streaming and digital are the future.

Similarly everyone's betting on 5G replacing home lines overall and filling the gaps. Beyond the obvious game streaming problems of wireless, even if they don't sell it per-GB, they'll sell "unlimited" which almost aways carries the asterisk "users that use more than the network average will be throttled/de-prioritized." Well gaming will certainly use more than the network average for most people surfing the web and sending emails.

Going to be a loooooong time before digital/streaming is standard.

Then again I remember when friends in the UK would complain about their cost-per-minute dialup back in the 90's and we'd laugh. NOW look where we are....

@NEStalgia Yeah sure, back in the day, I had my go-to local gaming stop (not a game stop, but just a small local store, where we would also hang out after school and talk and play on local machines, and stuff ..), where I would preorder some games directly from the owner. Again, it was small store and he did not move large quantities, so his business was kinda based around not having a huge overhead (tiny storage area, too) and still he could not afford to regularly have folks walk out disappointed ... Alas that store closed a long time ago. It's just big chains now and obviously online sales, plus gaming has gone mainstream since then with many games moving numbers beyond what most publishers could have even dreamed of bak then. Also, Discs are way cheaper to produce than the carts that were still very common back then, so just having more copies printed was less of a financial risk.

And yeah, with digital it makes zero sense. It's one thing to digitally preorder a game after reviews went live to get some kinda discount, goodie or preload, but simply put: Don't (digitally) preorder embargoed games! Wait for reviews to come in and THEN make and informed decision. To buy based on impulse or hype - all that achieves is communicating the fact, taht you care more about the marketing effort than the product itself. No one will be able to put that genie back into the bottle before long, assuming it's even still possible =(

@BlueOcean really? we can’t say cancer now? why don’t we just stop speaking all together, it’s easier than removing every word that offends some group. These restrictions on language have gone too far these days, apparently lots of people have forgotten the oppression caused by controlled speech and would rather instead not offend someone thin skinned by saying “cancer”. And yes both of my parents had cancer at one point.

@BlueOcean Really? Because frankly that sounds an awful lot like you are trying to argue that cancer is like the n-word. So basically you can only legitiamtely use it, if you are directly affected. If that is what you are saying than sorry, but no, absolutely count me out on that line of reasoning. The word itself is not offensive, so I really cannot follow you there. Again, it's not something I lack personal exposure, too, and the absolutely completely last thing - in my experience - folks want is to be treated "special" or even worse to be in any way shape or form pittied.

Again, it's not good enough - at least to me - to argue that it could potentially offend someone. This notion, that we should shape language around everyone's sensibilities ... I find disrespectful. Language is not a tool, you can just adjust to your liking. It's common good, shaped by history, tradition ... change.

If someone is offended, they are free to call me out and I will make sure to apologize. I figured I made it clear what I was trying to say, but if I wasn't I'll own up to that. That's all I am willing to do. Maybe it is the current political climate but I am too tired to continue giving even one more inch to those who feel language is 'theirs' by right of .. whatever really, it does not matter.

@tekknik @Ralek85 You don't understand. Obviously, you can talk about it seriously but not comparing it to companies' strategies in a very superficial way and using it as a cheap metaphor. In doing so you are being very disrespectful with many people.

By the way, many people have complained about this before so I am not the only seeing it. If you want to talk seriously about it that's another thing and people do it in the forum without any problems.

I hope that you don't have to personally have this illness to understand something so obvious.

@Krull It's because they are Nintendo. Everyone loves them and would not dare accuse them of anything.Somepeople though, see past all the rainbows and bloody sugar coating crap and will actually call Nintendo out on things. I mean, both Nintendo and the Switch both have issues.

@AcridSkull "People absolutely have a right to change their mind about a product that has not yet been delivered." - Unless they've contractually waived that right, of course. Personally I don't think it's a very good idea, but I'm not in the business of thinking for other people.

Another way to look at it is that if it is a bad business practice that people dislike enough, it will hurt Nintendo and they'll suffer those consequences unless they change.

@Tempestryke Thanks for your indulgement!
I did say that Zelda was an outlier right? I mean, how many games outsell the system they run on? How many games ARE BotW? ... I see your example, but you do see my point, right? Plus, you are aware that the game is available digitally yes? So ... scrooge or not, if you really want to play it, you can.

@BlueOcean obviously i can use it whenever i want, my speech isn’t controlled. so i’m guessing we should also not use any other words that have anything to do with anything that has harmed a person before? like say, pillow? you’re being ridiculous, grow thicker skin and quit trying to control speech like a dictator

@Tempestryke I'm one of those in a rural area like you mentioned, and yeah, stock is random and often limited, unless I have the time to drive 40 minutes to the nearest game store (or if I'm inclined to pay for GameStop's shipping and maybe be lucky enough to get it two weeks after the fact). Pre-ordering physical copies with the hope of them arriving on or fairly near launch date is definitely the better option for me.

@Ralek85 But I don't buy digitially often unless the company that makes it is small and can only afford to create digital content at this time. Or its a game for a retired system.

Just because you do not prefer to pre-order, does not mean it shouldn't be an option.

@BlueOcean I can live with that. I never said it wasn't a 'cheap' metaphor, it probably is. But there is only so much effort I am willing to give a single comment ... I will be frank though, just as it is up to me to respect people, it is equally up to people to be offended by a cheap metaphor.

In other words, if someone kinda wants to be offended, they certainly can, but that is not what I will structure my wording around. Absolutey not, not in general and not even in that particular case.

Like I said, everyone who is offended should feel free to tell me, but I rather not have someone tell 'don't say that you might potentially offend someone, somewhere one day'. Language holds meaning and meaning holds risks - such is life and there is no preventing that without giving up on meaning or at the very least severly limiting it.

@Flowerlark That's the thing. In the US there really isn't a powerful body in place that can regulate and pursue action against companies (those boards are usually controlled by the same companies they are meant to regulate, even more so nowadays).

The EU is a very powerful organization made of several member countries, the G20 is made up of a good chunk of them. If you want to pursue business in any them in have to make sure you follow their rules. Even if you manage to buyout one country's government there's no guarantees you can do in any other country and you'd have to do so in a majority of them (or the most powerful ones) to be able hold your own against the EU.

I mean if you check Sony's policies they also aren't consistent in NA. They don't have most of the changes they made for the EU in their NA policies.

@Tempestryke It's not about me, it's about a system that provokes abuse. If we make ourselves into tools, tools that buy anyways, then we are getting what we deserve. I'm not even sure what we are supposed to be complaining about then, because by now there cannot be a reasonable expectation of quality anymore. If we continue to shell out despite knowing that, then we are in fact exactly getting what we are owed.

@tekknik You are free to say whatever you want and being disrespectful and nasty if that is how you are as long as you are not reported and banned, feel free to be so. I am free to tell you that you are so.

It's ironic that you tell me to change myself when you aggressively don't accept anyone to tell you to change. I guess that it's how it works for you.

@Ralek85 How is it abusive to be able to secure a game? Its not like we're paying off employees to sneak them to us months before they hit the shelves. We get them the very day or week they came out, same as anyone else could. So abusive my foot. As for digital pre-ordering, it seems silly to me, but thats up to people and their money to decide for themselves.

@FantasiaWHT I don't know where you live but in EU you can't contractually waive your rights, that's why many contracts are considered abusive and invalid by law.

@Ralek85 Heck even Amazon runs out of stock on physical games. Unfortunately JIT has really harmed the retail ecosystem while promising to maximize bottom lines. With JIT manufacturing the calculations to have exactly the right supply almost always fall short, and there's never a surplus for discount leftover. Companies salivated at getting rid of moneysucking overages to bleed money, but they didn't realize the importance of that secondary market of discount hunters keeping their whole overall market more vibrant. That helped only the giants, and moved ever further toward the giant monopolies-only that we have today. So much of the concept of how the market works were devised on those old concepts of overages and short runs. The data driven world makes it ultra efficient.....but the slack created by inefficiencies is what really made the market function. The quest for efficiency broke it in ways that can't be repaired. In gaming it's both a necessity and an exploitation, simultaneously. I don't know how that can be fixed.

But I think we're waaay past the point of marketing mattering more than the game. If you look at the sales, the ESA surveys and reports....what consumers rank as important. Marketing is the game now, the game itself is almost irrelevant for "mainstream" games (niche games need to try harder.)

@dew12333 I sincerely hope that was sarcastic

@Ralek85 Then buying games or anything else, as soon as they come out is abusive too. Because other then trying them out by playing or borrowing them from someone else, we don't know what kinda quality we are getting either, when we buy something.

And isn't Digital to blame for cheap, greedy tactics such as unfinished, buggy games that they can patch later, cut dlc and lootboxes?

@SmaggTheSmug the question then is; what happens with our EU consumer laws when the sinking ship that is our country is no longer part of the EU? (I hate talking about Brexit but figure this is a worrying issue)

@Tempestryke Ralek is right. Securing the game early isn't in and of itself abusive. The fact that they've trained the gaming market to pay for a product, sight unseen, quality of goods unproven, and have learned to abuse that to pass off poor quality, unfinished products knowing they're already paid for and unable to be returned, is abusive. And this is done regularly. Factor in most game sales are the first two weeks, the release cycle is this: Overpromise, excessively market, capture the preorder money, then underdeliver. Once anyone finds out the game underdelivers it's too late, you have their money. (Check out the NL article on the tennis game recently for an example of just how cynical it is with the CEO boldly proud that he stiffed retailers by shipping broken games they can't return. That was a plus point for his investors!)

I'm as guilty as you, often preordring (physical) games, but think about what we're doing. We're paying money (or promising it) in advance, for a product we have not seen or touched, nobody else is allowed to see or tocuh, nobody knows if it works, mostly based on marketing. This then removes most urgency in pleasing customers because that's now an expense rather than a necessity for revenue. They can opt out of pleasing customers if it's not going to enhance the bottom line. And often, they do.

Next time at a restaurant, try tipping a %40 percent gratuity before you find out if your server is even barely competent. Doesn't sound like a good plan does it?

@BlueOcean In the US it's complicated. Contractually waiving your rights seems to be both legal and illegal based on whims. You can of course litigate your video game contract all the way to the supreme court if you have $2M and about 4 years of your life to spare on it....and you'd likely win.... So you get your rights if you can buy them, but otherwise it's assumed that you have to forfeit them due to inability to challenge.

@FantasiaWHT you can't contractually waive your right to a law.

@ZombieGavinS I am not a citizen or resident of UK, so literally not my problem

@NEStalgia Fortunately, in EU and UK you don't need a lawyer, just write to the competent institution and wait for them to talk to Nintendo or whoever.

It's sad that you have to be rich in US to protect your rights.

@NEStalgia Nobody forces anyone to pre-order, though, and there isn't a 40% markup for pre-ordering either. If people are pre-ordering games that they aren't 100% sure they want, you can hardly blame the publishers for foolish consumer behavior.

I'm siding with Norway on this one. You should be able to cancel any preorder, physical or digital, if you decide you don't want it. Hopefully Nintendo will have to implement this fix in policy worldwide.

I rarely preorder any game nowadays unless there's a special edition that I really want or if I expect a game to have a limited physical run. Digital preordering makes even less sense to me; it's not like digital copies are limited, and the games are commonly locked and/or need to finish downloading on the release date anyway.

@Tyranexx When games were physical and also on Wii U because I refused to buy external storage for a bunch of Wii U games, you are right, pre-ordering was almost necessary sometimes. I thought it would be almost impossible to buy Breath of the Wild for Wii U because Nintendo was marketing the Switch version only and they didn't send Wii U copies to reviewers. I thought that the Wii U version would be almost impossible to find. It turned out that I still see that version everywhere and was surprisingly very successful.

Reasons for pre-ordering digital games include slow internet connections, pre-order freebies or discounts and also that you can play the game on launch day without worrying about anything else.

@NEStalgia.

Buying any game sight unseen isn't considered abusive. Especially since we've had these little things called Trailers and Commercials for decades.

Its not much different then buying a game day one, or buying a game they've never heard of on impulse, because they think it looks interesting.

If a game is riddled with problems, that they will patch later, that is the fault of the developers for not bothering to test it thoroughly and for relying on easy fixes from the get-go its instead of doing things properly. It is not the fault of the stores that carry them, because they don't make the game.

Sorry, but the argument that physical pre-orders are automatically abusive is paper thin.

@eaglebob345 You are ignorant of how Switch works and somehow you are angry too by your ignorance. You can buy a game and play it on a different Switch console. I hope I didn't shock you with this information.

@Tempestryke I think you're missing that the reasons they can ship broken and fix later is precisely because they've already been paid for it. They don't have to ship quality to convince people to buy. People buy and then they can decide if they fix it or not. That's what's wrong with it.

@BlueOcean Indeed it is. It wasn't always that way.... Back in the day you didn't really need to defend your rights at all, it was reasonable to expect most people, even companies would respect them. And they did. It was only some bad apples that would not automatically behave ethically, but most people could be counted on to automatically do so. Something changed in the 90's and 00's, and for a country on which almost everything was based on the honor system and a handshake was all you needed, and contained a people for whom that was usually enough, it horrendously broke everything. The result is, with a lack of honor and integrity you need the systems. And the systems only serve those with enough money for it.

I'm here for the Phoenix Wright game on Switch.

@electrolite77

"I suspect me and you both know the depressing answer to that 😉"

Unfortunately I fear you may be right... We can probably kiss goodbye to the 2 year warranty on electronics as well 😔

@NEStalgia I like that honour and integrity thing. I hope that it goes back. Sounds very cool, like you have to behave as you want others to behave.

I've never been to US but I am planning to go to New York this year. I hope that I will like it!

This is no different than when you buy digital music....you don’t get a refund for that either or when you buy a game on the eShop when it’s available.

@BlueOcean: I ran into a similar scenario with Darksiders: Warmastered on the Wii U since I expected it to have a limited run; funnily enough there are still a few physical copies floating around where I live.

I suppose I shouldn't have said (well, typed) that digital preorders don't make sense as I do understand that others do find it a worthy option; it's just that many of those reasons don't ring true with me in my case. The one I can understand the most is the poor internet connection as it is something I deal with (I dislike my ISP, but they're my only broadband option presently); the irony is that my poor connection is one of the reasons why I prefer physical purchases over digital.

@BlueOcean Indeed. It's quite a problem for someone like me who was raised in that former culture of behaving as you want others to behave. To me, that is how the world works, that is how everyone reacts by default, and that's always my perception. So imagine how impossible everything becomes when you're one of the few still doing that? I feel like I live in a foreign country now, and I don't remember leaving. I feel as much an outsider here as i would if I just moved to Tokyo tomorrow. If not moreso. Japan still follows that honor system to large extent...not quite the same way...not companies or politicians....but the overall public largely does. In some ways their world, alien as it is, is more familiar to the one I remember than what I see in front of me. Perhaps the last place like that, and perhaps it's fading fast there too.

Sadly I doubt it comes back. The human default is savagery. What used to be took lots of work, maintenance, and violent war to create. It's almost impossible to create and the cost of lives is high, and it's easy to lose with even the slightest apathy. At some point people gave in to convenience and self indulgence and stopped caring about that broader culture. Ultimately I think the blame lies with the WWII/Depression generation. Their lives were so horrible from the start they set out the spoil their kids so they could have the happiness they never had. The result was a generation of self absorbed individuals with no sense of their greater effect on others, and not really a care about it....and each generation that lesson amplifies. If it ever corrects, it will be the result of great catastrophe and suffering.

As for NYC...well...it's unique. Less unique than it used to be. It used to have charm....dirty, noisy, loud, but there was only one place in the world like it. So much was unique to it. In recent years the little stores and districts have faded and been replaced by global chains and homogenization..... You'll get to see it before it's completely "mallified". Look for the little, grimy, off the track places...that's the "real" NYC. The people on the other hand....well they're....err....direct.......and they have always been like that....not sure how, but since day one, that's been NY

On his way to sign the Constitution in 1776, John Hancock commented that he traveled through New York, and never before had he seen such rude, improper, and noisy people in his life. So, NYC has been the same NYC for 250+ years, for better or worse,

Couldn't pay me to live there, but it's a neat visit. Though I last saw it in it's old "real" self, not the newfangled mallified version overrun by chain stores.

@Tyranexx Yep, for me is the same but now I prefer digital, on Xbox One at least. On Wii U I prefer physical for the bunch of exclusive games and the 32 GB internal memory for patches and digital games.

My ISP is also the only one and it's slow but there is no data cap so I leave the console downloading on stand-by. It takes a whole day to download a 50 GB game but at least there is no penalty and I don't have to drive or wait for the postman.

I will never forget how difficult it was to get Project Zero Maiden of Black Water Limited Edition although I had a pre-order which was apparently ignored.

As some people have said, digital games are being constantly patched because of the digital distribution but that also affects physical releases so at the end of the day the physical edition is half-digital, not to mention Switch games like Wolfenstein II that only include a few chapters of the game.

@NEStalgia Hahaha well if that consoles you, I'm not like that but recent generations in Europe tend to be rude and selfish. Not everyone of course but too many. You can see it around here too.

@Tempestryke What are you not getting? If you preorder a game, you tell the publisher in question: I buy this no matter what state it is in. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp. So what if a game is broken and never fixed? Tough luck, you should have never said, that you are okay with this as long as they take your money. You damn well knew there was a reasonable chance that this might be the way it turned out, but you shelled out anyways - the only take away anyone could get from this, is that you are kinda okay with that.

Maybe you are. That's your prerogative. Mine is to think that this is stupid. Chances are you will be able to get the game the next day as well or the day after that. Videogames are not Mondo Prints ... gee

@CCore28 That's not entirely true there, you do have the option to cancel a preorder on the psn or Xbox store, but they don't charge you for whatever game you pre-ordered until 7 days ahead of release, so if someone where to preorder shadow of the tomb raider today, they wouldn't be charged until September 7th. Best buy and Amazon also do it that way, Nintendo as far as I know (haven't done any from steam) is unique with the purchase being made the same day.

@CCore28 I agree with you but on Xbox you are charged a week before release date though. I can confirm that. Not sure about the other platforms, it seems that you are charged automatically on PS and Nintendo when you preorder.

@CCore28 Oh I see, I use a credit card. Thanks for the information.

I don't know man. If you pre-order a digital item....

Preordering is useful when you want to be delivered day one, that's all
But for a download ? lol, at least if you preorder on Amazon the price is a little cheaper
But it's not because preordering something digital doesn't look like a smart move that Nintendo should continue gettin this way

@BlueOcean

Are you serious about not using the word cancer for this? Do you think it’s just overkill or are you offended? He’s not comparing it to cancer he’s saying it’s a cancer on the industry; it’s a common saying that he used appropriately. I’m as PC as you get and even I’m confused by your comment.

Also, while I don’t agree pre-orders are awful, they’re mostly annoying, nintendo deserves to be sued for this. People love Nintendo but if you look at it objectively they’re not a very ethical company. They pollute terribly, have some very non-friendly policies towards consumers, and happen to make fantastic games so we all ignore that

@ZombieGavinS depends if it becomes an hard or soft brexit. If you want an hard brexit, you can change your laws however you want.

But if you want access to the inner market, you will still be bound by all EU regulations regarding goods, pay almost as much as you have done but you will not have any say in the law making. And you will need a visa to visit EU.

I would guess you can change your consumer protection laws in both cases since it probably won't effect EU citizens in this case.

@Majora101

It's just time to pay the price for not listening to advice...

I don't see what the big deal is. The system is all digital, it isn't like Nintendo has to pay anyone to run a digital checkout or anything.

@Octane As in, too many people try to downlowd at once and the server crashes. Like I can remember happening with the eShop during Christmas/New Years weeks (which Nintendo decided to "solve" by limiting access to peak hours. )

I don't care that much about the issue, but Nintendo should really go ahead and just add the option in order to be more consumer friendly and to avoid a potentially embarassing court battle.

@Ralek85 Well, the rare times I've preordered a game, it's been to get a special preorder bonus.

If Nintendo try to ignore this, I do hope that they pay for it.
I do love The Legend Of Zelda and Mario games, but I still disagree with many of Nintendo's practices.
This kind of law should be implemented in other countries as well.

@BlueOcean: While I also have no data cap, my connection isn't always reliable, plus the lines where I am are subject to high traffic at times. I also suspect that my ISP likes throttling when it comes to larger downloads. Things improved a little when they upgraded the lines, but it's still nothing to write home about.

Other than a handful of VC games, two digital games that came with my Wii U (Nintendo Land and Super Mario 3D World), and about half a dozen digital-only indie titles, my Nintendo collection is mostly physical. I am planning on going slightly digital when I get a Switch (mainly with games that are best played with friends, like Rocket League), but I still think the majority of my retail games will be physical. I enjoy having the option to share and sell games as needed, and I also like not having to spend a lot of time fretting about storage and backups.

Unfortunately, with how the industry is going, that will be more of an issue before too long. I'm not totally against going digital, but I prefer some of the freedoms (though they're slowly dwindling) that come with it. Also, the collector in me really digs some of the extras that come with these special editions....

You pay them for their services and products and If something is not right, they have to take responsibility.
Nintendo is a company, all that talk about "respecting and loving their costumers" aside, they are in this business to make money, above all else.
If Nintendo tries to "ignore" them, I hope they take a hit in their wallets this time.

@Tyranexx Yep I understand but as I grow up I think that the collector in me is saying enough, although I got a bit crazy and pre-ordered the quite expensive Banjo-Kazooie figure, but that is going to be once in a lifetime because it's my favourite character. I won't say goodbye to some physical games either, those Club Nintendo goodies like the Luigi's Mansion 2 diorama, the three Yarn Yoshi amiibos and a few Zelda and Mario Kart CDs.

@FantasiaWHT
" But we don't need laws saying companies can't have non-refundable preorders."
We do, because if people find out that the company is peddling snake oil, then they should be entitled to their money back.

"We don't need laws protecting us from ourselves."
That's exactly what the law does. It outlines consequences for transgressing societal standards. Knowing that you'd be penalised for breaching these rules is enough to deter most people.

@Ralek85,

Games like Fire emblem awakening, A boy and his blob Wii and Muramasa Wii to give a few examples. I even ordered Fire emblem awakening at a real game-shop, and after weeks of waiting I was fed up and just downloaded it from the e-shop.

To put it short: Mario, Zelda and Pokemon are never a problem, but getting a Nintendo-device game that is not first-part and/or niche is often quite troublesome. Maybe I went to the wrong shops?

It's kinda funny how some people here apparently do not want additional consumer rights ensured by laws.

@Henmii I wouldn't know, but just checking on Amazon real quick, you can order Awakening no problem ^^ BotW though is only available second hand at over 60€ (the Switch version that is). But again, this feels like an outlier to me.

@Therad what I would really personally like is no Brexit at all but I think it's way too late for that now.

What I think should be illegal is when you open up preorders for certain editions of games, which can sell out in a matter of seconds, and only manufacture a limited amount.

A preorder should be an invoice of sorts to have the manufacturer know how many to produce, and shouldn't sell out.

God knows I would have loved to have gotten my hands on some of Nintendo's products but was unable to do so because I couldn't preorder them because they sold out.

@Cosats @geheimxy I'm mainly talking about the 3DS, but the Wii U too. They may be their older consoles, but their competition has been doing it for two generations now. I have a Switch, but if they want to keep the 3DS going, like they said they would (I doubt it, but hey), that would be an excellent thing to add. And it would be consumer friendly, way more than the system transfer process they've had for generations.

@BlueOcean One definition of the word cancer is "a practice or phenomenon perceived to be evil or destructive and hard to contain or eradicate." Pretty sure that's the definition @Ralek85 was going for, given the context, and there's nothing wrong with that.

@Ralek85,

I thought you knew I was talking about Retail. Its one of the reasons why I moved to online. For example: I ordered Crash trilogy at a online-shop. I am pretty sure it would have been troublesome to get it at Retail.

@Henmii I'm confused. As far as my strong reservations against pre-ordering goes, is there any meaningful difference whether we are talking retail or online? I mean thanks for pointing it, but the reason I took no special note of it, is because I cannot see that difference. Both circumstance lead to the same outcome in my book.

Pheonix Wright looks embarrassed in that image. Embarrassed to had taken the time to read another flamebait article, than something newsworthy that is.

@Ralek85,

The difference is this: Here in Holland you can get most games easily at online-shops. While a lot of games are really troublesome to get at Retail. That's my experience anyway.

@Henmii No, I mean what does it matter where you get them? It's the same game. You made a whole point about preordering because retail stores won't carry enough inventory, but if you can still get it online anyways ... what's the point really?

@Ralek85,

My point is whether you order or pre-order, online is the way to go. Since you can't get stuff in the Retail shops. I always order my stuff 1 or 2 days in advance, in case of a Zelda maybe 1 or 2 months. But never longer then that because it gives me all kinds of uncertainty's about price, and whether or not it gets canceled or delayed.

Its hard to judge if a game will have a big supply or not. Mario has of course, but other games? If you wait some time AFTER a game is released, you know almost for sure it will be harder to get the game. Besides you might want to have it on launch. Therefore I order 1 or 2 days in advance.

Come on Nintendo play fair now! Offer people the right to cancel a preorder purchase for whatever reason. Stop mugging your fans.