Lego City: Undercover is the next big Switch retail release, and despite the age of the title it's well worth getting excited about - it was easily one of the stand-out games on the Wii U, horrendous load times notwithstanding.
While it was intended to be a Nintendo exclusive Lego City: Undercover also came to the PS4, and in the video above you'll see that version compared to the Switch port. As you might expect, the Switch version doesn't look quite as good but the difference is surprisingly minimal - especially when the game is in full flow. In fact, during gameplay when your attention is on events taking place around you and you're not inspecting individual pixels with a magnifying glass, it's highly unlikely that you'd be able to tell them apart.
What do you make of this footage? Are you impressed with how close the Switch version is to the PS4 edition, given the difference in size and power between the two consoles? Build up a comment below to tell us.
[source gonintendo.com]
Comments 116
Just to annoy those first! Commenters.
The game looks good on both consoles. Still no comparison on loading times between PS4/Switch though ?
I'd bet they will be pretty similar. Lego games aren't known for their polish. Remember the Lego Star Wars ones on DS, when we were happy because the ground was sometimes visible ? Ah.
Almost no significant difference.
Switch version, here I come !
Will buy the switch version for sure... Digitally!
Hearing some opinions online that Switch version docked is 1080p and 720p undocked.
Nice if true.
Switch looks great. Game still hasn't shipped yet says the game is out on the 6th hmmmm
I was so hyped about that game on switch. But after watching videos with ridiculous loading times - I've bought in on PC Steam, for 13,- Eur...
Instant loading times, FullHD@60fps but lack of mobility and lots of bugs, glitches and errors. This port is very bad atm. I hope they will fix it soon.
Resolution down. Is that complex graphics wise? ^^
Anyway good, definitely. Portable? Yay.
Well you can color me impressed and call me Mr Impressedo.
Draw distance looks the same. And yes there is some loss of sharpness bit nothing embarrassing .
Only difference I see is resolution.
What a useless comparison. Its not even graphically extensive so whats the use of invoking the PS4s power?
@diwdiws ... So people can see if the two ports look alike or if some stuff has been added to one of the ports.
You know.
A comparison.
Does anyone else see the irony of comparing the graphics of a game where everything is meant to be made of plastic?
So it's all down whether you want highest quality graphics on a console (otherwise you'd probably go PC) or the ability to play portably.
The difference was nothing, but being played on two different platforms. Graphics comparison with the Switch and PS4 was a useless one.
Although I got no plans to get it, seeing as I played it and beaten it on the Wii U. But the developers really need to do something about the loading times.
@FX102A
I'm hearing that the PC version is broken, so it's probably best avoided at the moment unfortunately.
Ah oh, very cool. looking forward to getting my preordered copy on Friday.
"In fact, during gameplay when your attention is on events taking place around you and you're not inspecting individual pixels with a magnifying glass, it's highly unlikely that you'd be able to tell them apart"
Modern platform comparisons in a nutshell. But then again, I'm such a noob in this domain that I've played Titanfall 2 demo and still can't say for sure what of this game wouldn't run on Switch by the developer's estimation (unless he is just unwilling to downgrade the textures which is a decision I must respect even if I can't get behind it). Still, the point here stands - it's fashionable to discuss graphics being among the "most important" factors, but how honest we are about it depends on how long we can keep appreciating these graphics in this or that genre before the rest of the experience stuffs them to the back of our mind like a once adored but now abandoned toy. Which frankly makes you feel sad for these graphics, the talent and the effort invested in them, too. Do gamers want them because they love them or do gamers want them like browsers and Netflix - "just so they're there"?
The comparison wii u vs switch was more enlightening. The slight graphics upgrade is evident. Still after the last two zeldas i wont be buying remakes of games i already played and paid for.
I couldn't really see a difference. Derp.
@diwdiws its to make casual gamers believe thay'll be seeing 3rd party games with the same graphical level as the PS4, while not understanding its a last gen game.
@ultek
Eh...
Guess PC version is the worst then...
Fastest loading time but has a lot of troubles inside.
@kobashi100 all games undocked are capped at 720p cause thats all the screen can do...
I for one find the comparison between PS4 and Switch interesting. Owning bot consoles, and having never played the Wii U version, I'm trying to decide whether to go for the PS4 or Switch version. Portability is one thing, but if the PS4 version makes for a better gameplay experience, I'd go for that one. Waiting for reports on loading times, but graphics doesn't seem to tip the scale.
Never finished it on wii u so I preordered it for switch because I wanted to play it without too much loading. Looooooool 😄
@Almighty-Koz I know that dude
I am talking about it the chance of it running sub 720p like snake pass does. If lego does display 720p undocked then great news
Can't see the difference!
Why are people so excited about these old games? I want new games!
The portability for me is so much more important than the slight graphical difference. Zelda I played 50/50 docked/portable and that experience was proof of concept for me. Don't get me wrong it's early days for the console but man it is such an advantage over everything else. Lego is a bit of a collectaphon so being able to pick up and play whenever wherever is a massive improvement. I said I wouldn't double dip but I'm waivering.
@shaneoh A busted PC port of a Warner Bros game?
Well who'd have thought! 🙄
Is the entire game playable in co-op mode? That will ultimately determine whether or not I buy the game as the loading times are simply unacceptable if I were to play this in portable mode. I don't even recall Watch_Dogs on Wii U having such long load times, and that was a far more graphically intensive open world game (speaking of... port plz Ubisoft).
The difference could be "surprisingly minimal" due to TT not putting a whole lot of effort in. Sure the Switch version has a 500MB day 1 patch. That screams sloppy. Seems like they slapped everything with the one roller before frantically releasing patches for each version.
It sounds funny but... The Chase Begins should be Remade too, in the same level as Lego City Undercover Switch version. And should be Switch exclusive since the game appeared on 3DS.
@sillygostly
The full game seems to be playable in co-op, though it's drop-in/drop-out, meaning there's no progress made on the guest's side.
I was playing it with my girlfriend for a few hours earlier today, and I have to say it's great fun. Typical LEGO game humour mixed with the ability to wander around finding things while your significant other deals with arresting the bad guys.
Not much difference at all. This bodes well for these type of games on all platforms.
When it comes to "real life" games like Last of US, Uncharted or WatchDogs it would be interesting to see how the Switch matches up... for scientific purposes, of course. Hell, even Call of Duty.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Switch will ever get any of these game types, though. Just cartoony.
@grayadamson
Little question.
Can I use Left and Right Joy Cons to play Co-Op Mode (Left = Player 1, Right = Player 2) ?
@Anti-Matter no sorry you need 2 controllers....i have the game also and tried to play with my son and couldnt get it to work and found out that WB games said there is not enough buttons on a single jon con to play the game
@FX102A
Warner Bros just own the studio, it's Traveller's Tales that are responsible for the quality. It's disappointing, I've played a lot of TT's LEGO games on the PC and haven't had significant issues with any of them.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
People on Steam are basically saying it's downright broken on PC. It's Arkham Knight all over again.
@shaneoh Same with Rocksteady being the developers of Arkham Knight.
The PC port may have been handed off to another team who offered the lowest bid.
@tonyp1987
Oh, thank you for the info.
Guess I need another Joy Cons or Pro Controller to play Co-Op.
@grayadamson : Cheers for that. That's exactly what I wanted to know. I wasn't expecting any sort of saved progress for Player 2 anyway, so that's fine.
I noticed that you're from Australia as well. How did you wind up with a copy of the game? Did you buy it from another region's eShop? Or is it available at retail? The Australian release date for the Switch version was delayed by one week.
@sillygostly
Yeah, I grabbed some US eShop credit from Play-Asia.com and bought it there. Worked out a bit cheaper than the usual Aus eShop markup, too.
@Anti-Matter hopefully they can fix the framerate then it will be a great portable experience
If anything I thought the spinning lego pieces that you collect look better on Switch but could be my imagination!
Not sure which version to get as I'd like the Trophy's on PS4 but also to be able to play this handheld! Hmmm...
Nice. Will buy it for the switch, my ps4 is already gone (sold it).
Looks awesome, i havent played it on the wiiU, but this video just reminded me what game i missed lol.
@grayadamson
Co-op really? Didnt know that. Thanks now i want a Copy ASAP lol.
Can't notice a difference but already played on Wii U, great game but wouldn't buy again.
Shame they haven't improved the loading times, they're really bad.
For added comparison's sake, here's the Wii U vs Switch video from the same YouTuber:
True, it is only a slightly upgraded last gen game, but it still bodes well for the possibilities of third party outings on Switch, regardless. Because in most cases, all they would have to do is lower the resolution slightly, and that would suffice.
Nice! Game looks pretty good. I'll be picking it up this weekend!
Considering it's a port a 4 year old Wii U game with little to no improvements... This should be expected. Its not like they were remastering it to push the limits of the PS4.
@Hotfusion I see no reason at all why these kind of "realistic" games you named, couldn't be coming to the Switch. The Wii U ran most of these types of games just fine, and seeing as the Switch is actually quite a bit more powerful than that, it should have no trouble at all running them, albeit probably not in the same resolutions as on the "big" boys.
@ThanosReXXX don't think anybody doubts the switch can run realistic games. PS3 and 360 did just fine and switch is way above them consoles.
We just don't know if third parties will develop these games on switch. We know Nintendo won't ever go down that road so it's all still up in the air. Hopefully E3 will bring us good news.
@ThanosReXXX thanks for sharing but i feel the load times should be better and i have notice framerate dips in the switch verison is it on the ps4/xbone versions too?
@ThanosReXXX
I found from Youtube there are some new Disguises on All version. Better you check on Youtube.
@tonyp1987 I honestly have no idea. You could check Nintendo Life's sister site Push Square for the Playstation verdict/review.
EDIT:
I do believe there's already a patch out, that might address some of these issues.
@ThanosReXXX I read hotfusions post, and I think he implied Switch wouldn't be getting those games, not b/c Switch couldn't run them, but b/c Wii U didn't get them and they wouldn't sell. Which is probably true. I think Switch could run anything X1 could run, most of them are just Xbox360 and PS3 ports anyway, and Wii U was more powerful than those 2 old systems, and Switch is more powerful than Wii U, so any multiplat X1 could run Switch could run. The only exceptions might be PS4 and X1 exclusives built for those consoles from the ground up, but Switch was never getting those anyway b/c "exclusive".
But will companies already spending the resources to build 2x2 versions of their games - PS4 and Pro enhancements, X1 and Scorpio enhancements - want to also make 2 Switch versions, docked and portable, which may not sell all that well?
Annnnd I see I just got ninja'd, oh well.
Bigger question, will Switch be able to run PS5 and Xbox Four games in 2 1/2 years? Why put Destiny 2 on Switch this year if it won't be able to handle Destiny 3 in 3 years? Or AC, Madden, GTA, Red Dead or any of their ilk?
Nintendo needs to get a few family friendly multiplats, sports games mostly, and then turn Switch into the 3DS successor with Pokémon and Monster Hunter, maybe next year at E3 2018. Skyrim, like AC, MA3 and Batman on Wii U, will probably turn out to be the exception, not the rule. Sad but true.
@kobashi100 Well, Hotfusion did, he seems to fear that there will only be cartoony games on Switch and since I see no reason for that to occur, I replied to him.
@Anti-Matter I think you confused me with someone else, because I didn't ask those questions.
To me it looks like the resolution is a little lower and there is less traffic and less pedestrians. I thino it looks great on Switch.
@ThanosReXXX thanks and i downloaded the 479mb patch and nothing change as far as framerate
@rjejr Well, the Wii U actually did get them, albeit it not in abundant quantities and of course it didn't get the platform-exclusive titles, so expecting these to come, or naming these as examples isn't really the handiest thing to do in the first place.
There's really no indication as of yet, besides the non-communication that (in my humble opinion) people are reading FAR too much in to, that there isn't going to be any third party support in the form of serious titles.
Lots of companies have committed and are on the now infamous list of people developing for Switch but not talking about it.
But just because they aren't, doesn't mean that the games aren't coming. There can be any number of reasons for that to occur, but apparently, the default reaction is always to dwell on the negative, and whine, doubt or fear and so on.
Fear or doubt creates its own image, and in 9 out of 10 cases, it's only in the mind/eyes of the person doing the fearing or doubting. Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence and the only thing to fear is fear itself. The reasoning behind it all is mostly irrational and/or based on old sentiments that are already being debunked by a far more positive response to Nintendo's current console.
Just look at the latest articles about sales expectations, attachment rates and so on. All mostly positive.
As such it would probably be better to just wait and see instead of already bemoaning the loss of something that we hardly even have any hard info about...
@tonyp1987 Wouldn't be able to tell you since I haven't got a Switch yet, but I'm also not that good at counting individual frames...
They said the patch would address some issues, so if it's not the frame rate, then it might be loading times, or some issues that people don't know about yet, so maybe you'll find out later on what exactly has been improved.
Or maybe that guy that did the comparison videos is going to do another one comparing the before and after patch versions...
@rjejr And there's not going to be any PS5 or Xbox Four in 2,5 years, because that would seriously undermine the PS 4 Pro and the Scorpio, so that's just not going to happen.
Actually, there might not even be a true successor to the PS4 at all, considering Sony's own statements in that department.
Might become some kind of streaming service with only a small box at home, much like PS TV, only more advanced.
@Nintendian then buy a PS4?
@gatorboi352 Hey Shadow King, I already got a PS4 Pro.
Plus one I can take to play in bed or in the car, and the other I can not. So Switch version wins for me, for sure.
The wii u version just looks better to me for some reason. It may be the colors.
No one will be able to tell the difference without a side by side comparison.
@ThanosReXXX My takeaway from that video is all 3 versions really don't look that far off from each other if you're not pixel peeping still shots, if you're actually in motion, and also it looks like Switch gets rid of that weird blue filter over everything in every game and finally properly replaces it with more of the browns that gamers DEMAND.
@ThanosReXXX I really can't tell if PS4 Pro is a serious product or just an odd halo to make PS4 Slim more appealing. It's expensive, it's not particularly amazing, it doesn't reach the bulk of their market, and it doesn't even seem to be well produced/stocked.
Scorpio's going out on an odd limb, they're boasting how powerful it is (making PS4 Pro more of a joke), yet it's still just a souped up XBox One at what we can assume will be a laughable price that's again like the Elite controller, that's another....oh what's the term YOUR KIND uses....."premium catalyst"? But they seem to be holding their tongues about if it will have exclusives, meaning they could break it into a "new platform" at any time of their choosing...
It's a weird position, Scorpio is likely going to have to force Sony's hand one way or another, either to put out revision 3 and do a 32X/SegaCD/Saturn loop of their own, or to push out at true PS5 (obsoleting Pro before it ever really started, and doing a Saturn very plainly.) Meanwhile Scorpio doesn't have to be anything other than an overpriced XBone.
Anyone who thinks Nintendo should have joined that mess is insane
That said, still not buying the streaming box thing. It's still not a viable reality in too many places. "Playstation 5, only for well planned cities!"
Remember when this was an exclusive Wii U title?
Switch is 2-for-2 in terms of comparing favorably against the PS4 in ports (Snake Pass being the other). Neither of the games are graphical giants by ANY means, but these breakdowns bode well for A and AA multi-plats, even if we won't get games from the bleeding edge graphically speaking.
@shani
Ah, yeah.
But now it's not exclusive anymore.
@NEStalgia
In my opinion, both Sony and Microsoft keep battling in Superior hardware, compete to be the strongest ever, but majority their games are NSFW game with typical Boring genres. Not attractive.
Meanwhile...
Nintendo keep stay away from that stupid showdown, just keep swimming... eh, keep making games that have its charm, kiddie as usual and out of the box.
@Pac-Fan
Um... I think it's because recorded in different tv setting.
I'm sorry, but I didn't see any difference at all! Too bad they didn't compare load times.
@ThanosReXXX "bemoaning"
You can call it bemoaning, or the more ubiquitous "whining", but I call it "planning". Planning out which games to get on which consoles when. And I wouldn't plan on getting most of the AAA multiplats on Switch. NBA Playgrounds does give me hope, but mostly for the $29.99 digital only offshoots, not the main games.
And I think a lot of the positive talk about Switch is good, but I also think it's based more on people buying it as their next portable, a 3DS replacement, than a home console. Though it is possible if Scorpio doesn't sell any better than PS4 Pro that maybe MS bails. I've been looking at X1 games A LOT the past 10 days and man that console has no games that I can't play on PS4. Wii U had way more diversity. What MS has though is the big names like Halo, Forza, Cod, but I can see why PS4 is outselling it 3 to 1. If Wii U had the same game line-up but also had Destiny, CoD, Madden and FIA I think it would have outsold X1. So you never know. But I'm planning on PS4 and PS5 for all of my multiplat needs and Switch for Mario et al.
@ThanosReXXX 4 years ago I thought this was the last Gen of home consoles too, then PS4 outsold everyone's expecatatiins. Then VR took off. And now 4k is becoming ubiquitous. So I think Sony has to have a PS5, and yes in 2 1/2 years. That would be 6 years for PS4 and 3 years for PS4 Pro, that's long enough. Perfect timing for PSVR2 with a higher resolution screen.
How can Sony stream 4k and VR? They need a box. Might as well call it PS5. Not like they are going to sell PSVR2 and tell people to hook it up to their $800 PC.
So yes, if not for PSVR and 4k tv, this might very well have been the last generation, but Sony is on too good of a roll to quit now, but any more than 6 years is too long to wait. There will still be PS4 games, go check the Japan Media Create charts, PS3 still has games 10 years after it launched. I think Xbox360 might still get games. 2 1/2 years from now it will be this Gen and next gen, no more PS4 and Xbox360 games.
@Anti-Matter Yeah, I know my post was somewhat nonsensical. I'm not even against making games available on other platforms, I would actually love to play BotW or Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2 on PC...
I totally agree on your other post (#79) by the way, most hyped/successful games on those other two consoles look the same to me and are therefore rather boring in my opinion. There are exceptions, but most of them are available on PC too.
@Anti-Matter Absolutely. I mean there's nothing wrong with the "NSFW" games, there's an audience for that, it's fine, and I definitely enjoy some of that to a degree. But there's an almost obsession with it with the PC/XBox/Sony crowd. Like every game has to meet a certain amount of teenage raging-hormone quota to be sold The fact that it all tries sooo hard to be "cool" tells us that the target market is middle school through high school. Nobody else is so worried about "doing cool stuff" all the time The college kids are the ones waiting in line for Zelda and MK8
Seriously, who gives a toss about comparison, life is to short to give a monkeys mother about it
@rjejr " lot of the positive talk about Switch is good, but I also think it's based more on people buying it as their next portable, a 3DS "
3DS remains the #1 platform of the 8th gen era, and the ONLY one to have a full lifespan. (And the only one that's not a complete failure in Japan.) I'd call that an amazing win if so
I remember when the Atari2600 was going to be the last gen console. We'll still be having this discussion after the PS10 lands
I mostly agree, except for the Pro. 2 1/2 years for the Pro is a problem. We've talked about it often, but that's precisely what the SegaCD/32X->Saturn problem was. The new half-way console that's not a new console but is a better console, but not for everything that they tried to convince people to buy just to dump it. For Sony to be repeating Sega would be an irony of biblical proportions. I don't see how they can get the Pro off the ground at ALL, especially with Scorpio behind it, but they can't give the finger to those customers without a serious blowback Sega style. They can do it once. But at this point they're making WiiU look good, and that's very very bad.
Microsoft is in a weird spot, but they're putting Sony in that weird spot now. Microsoft has no games PS doesn't have because they brute forced their way into the industry as they always have. They paid EA et all boatloads to get all kinds of content they couldn't provide themselves in the X0/X360 era. They made X360 the box for EA/Activision/Ubi/etc games, that was where you play them. Then with PS4 Sony said "ok, we'll pay x% more than they're paying you" and just like that MS lost their primary advantage and had no meaningful exclusives to fall back on. And the weaker box to boot.
BUT I see what they're doing with Scorpio. It's an all in high risk gambit. If scorpio sells poorly, it's just a souped up X1 for the high rollers. Just like PS4 Pro. If scorpio sells well, they can branch it as being the real XBox Two, crank out exclusives, and force Sony to have to make a move to counter it. That could put them off balance. But it's also high risk. X1 has low adoption. Scorpio risks segmenting their already fragile user base. And if it fails, it sends a big message that XBox brand really has no base. It could finish them. It's an impressive sounding console from the pre-reveal hype, but if they launch it and cripple it as just a better X1, it's likely going to be a very expensive box with little real world appeal in big numbers, will force the Pro price down, and probably lose long-term. If it becomes its own platform it MIGHT tip the favor away from Sony, OR just let sony outperform them for less money a little later down the line, OR show that no matter what XBox does they lose. The good news for now is they're ignoring the Switch with their Scorpio gambit, and they might miss the pack of wolves nipping at them from below that Sony is oddly better prepared to deal with.
If Scorpio fails we might see an XSurface in a few years to go against Nintendo's market. MS is better equipped for a mobile device head to head than Sony is.
@NEStalgia I don't know what MS can do to make Scorpio sell well. I do think Xbox fans are the type of stereotypical gamers that will pony up for a new console to play CoD, FIFA, Madden and some FPS, but it's a limited size group. Sony I think finally got a great bunch of games out for PS4, Uncharted, Horizon - but they still have Last of Us 2, God of War, Spiderman. I don't see why anybody would want an Xboxen over a Playstation. I know why people buy them, b/c their friends have them and they want to play online w/ them, but it still seems like a shrinking base.
So Scorpio is a hi-tech piece of hardware, but it needs software. I don't see how it succeeds.
And PS4 Pro probably succeeded, in getting people to buy more PS4 Slim b/c the price looked better. I think 3 years is enough for Pro to be the headliner. Don't forget, we aren't talking about boxing up and burying the PS4 like Nintendo did w/ the Wii U when Switch came out, we are talking about PS4 being the cheap alternative, and still getting 90% of the games, that PS5 gets for 2 to 3 years. PS3 got games for 10 eyars, PS4 will get games for many years after PS5 launches.
And don't forget simple economics. Both PS4 and Xbox One have dropped about $50 each per year since launch - $500, $400, $350, $300, $250. This holiday 2017 PS4 Slim and Xbox S 1 will be $199 each, Pro $299, Scorpio $399. Holiday 2018 Slim and X1S may be $179 and Pro $249, Scorpio $299. By Holiday 2019 - 2 1/2 years from now - Sony will need the PS5 b/c they can't have a holiday only selling the PS4 Pro for $199 and no Slim b/c they aren't going to sell a PS4 Slim for $99, that's not enough revenue for them, they'll either need a PS5 or a "PS4 Pro-er Pro" to have a hi-end $399 console on the market and under people's Christmas trees.
That's how I see it playing out anyway. Slim and X1S slowly disappear, Pro and Scorpio become low end $199 systems, PS5 in 2018, Xbox Next in 2020. Though I do like your XboxSurface idea. I'm still nto sure anybody really knows who Scorpio plays out regarding a name, which will dictate how it's viewed. Nintendo did a good job stitching to Switch, I doubt MS would switch form Xbox, but it could be Xbox OnePointFive or Xbox One Next or Xbox Two.
"3DS remains .. the ONLY one to have a full lifespan."
What does that mean? New 3DS is the exact same thing as PS4 Pro and likely Xbox Scorpio. How many Gameboys did Ntinedo have? Color, Advance, Micro? New 3DS will have the same 3 year lifespan as PS4 Pro, PS4 will have the same 6 year lifespan as 3DS. Mid-gen refresh isn't a new idea, it's been going on for years. Every PS had a refresh into a smaller body, extra power is just what people expect these days from yearly phone and tablet upgrades. Consumers won't be turned off by upgrades in home consoles mid-gen, they'll expect them.
@NEStalgia Well, Microsoft isn't really holding their tongue: like the PS4 Pro, they told both the media and developers that games need to work on all iterations of their console, except there will be extra assets on the disc that will be available only to the higher end models.
What's with the "my kind" by the way? Must be some type of a joke I'm missing, but I would never use words like "premium catalyst".
As for the PS4 Pro being a mess, completely agreed. Hardly a step up from the original, no real 4K (and people defending it are totally clueless or have no idea what the checker-boarding technique that Sony uses to get "4K" visuals actually entails) and too high a price that is not in proportion with the slight update that it offers gamers.
I wouldn't discount the streaming box idea, though. The Steam Box and the Shield Android TV are already here, and although they aren't breaking any sales records yet, they will be here to stay and since more and more areas around the world are getting upgraded to glass fiber connections, services like these will become more common place.
But either way, it's going to take quite a few years before all this stuff will become reality, if ever. The PS4 Pro first needs to hit some target that Sony has planned, or maybe they can still pull something else out of the hat in response to the Scorpio, depending on how well that's going to do.
@rjejr "You can call it bemoaning, or the more ubiquitous "whining", but I call it "planning". Planning out which games to get on which consoles when."
Yes I can call it bemoaning, because what you said there is not what I meant with it. What I was saying is that people are complaining about invisible issues that aren't even there yet, and they have no real proof to support their negativity, which is why I also said "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" and that goes both for third party support and Nintendo's own efforts.
"And I think a lot of the positive talk about Switch is good, but I also think it's based more on people buying it as their next portable, a 3DS replacement, than a home console."
I think the jury is still out on that one. Personally, I don't see that, and Nintendo reiterating continued support for the 3DS should be a clear sign for everyone that the Switch is NOT meant to be Nintendo's next portable. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a new dedicated handheld is announced somewhere in the near future...
"Though it is possible if Scorpio doesn't sell any better than PS4 Pro that maybe MS bails. I've been looking at X1 games A LOT the past 10 days and man that console has no games that I can't play on PS4. Wii U had way more diversity. What MS has though is the big names like Halo, Forza, Cod, but I can see why PS4 is outselling it 3 to 1."
The ONLY reason why the PS4 is outselling the Xbox One is because Sony were VERY smart and devious in their marketing strategy after the STUPENDOUS f-up that Microsoft made from the Xbox One launch. Few people know (or seem to have selective memory and choose to forget) that Sony had planned the exact same restrictive DRM measures and motion control gimmicks in their starter pack as Microsoft did, but after the HUGE backfire that Microsoft experienced, they quickly and quietly removed their PS4 "Eye 2.0" motion camera from the package, took $100 off of their release price, and proudly stated that their console wouldn't have the same restrictive measures as the Xbox One did.
It was a sly move and it garnered them much additional fans and praise, which they would have NEVER had if Microsoft's launch would have been more successful.
They had the FAR superior online experience and they were the leading developer's platform for third party efforts in the previous generation, and would have remained to be that because the Xbox One's architecture is once again more developer friendly in certain areas, but now money and returns on investment come into play and since they are so far behind in sales, the PS4 is now the natural choice for a primary development platform.
EDIT:
Man, I'm SO glad that Firefox has that auto-text safe ability, because right in the middle of me typing this text, the browser froze on me, but a simple kill and restart put me right back here with almost all my text intact... Phew...
Then again: I'm such a stubborn bastard, that I would have simply typed it all over again, since I'm not about to be defeated by some dumb piece of technology or a browser...
Yeah the only difference appears to be resolution.... AND the freaking long load times on the Switch. Unless the videos of PS4 gameplay have been edited to clip out load times, it appears the PS4 version has almost no load times. Really wish this could have been improved on the Switch. Owning the Wii U version I was really wanting this on the Switch, but now will either pickup on my PS4 Pro or just wait for it to go cheap on the Switch. I love the game and want the remaster, but it's just painful to see load times like this on Switch with PS4 not seeing anywhere near the same issue.
@rjejr And 4K is hardly ubiquitous, especially in consoles. Sony is deceiving the masses with their checker-boarding BS, and most games on both platforms are STILL unable to hold a steady 1080p/60fps, so let them reach that goal across the board first, and then there can be talks about getting 4K accepted as a mainstream thing, because right now, it definitely isn't.
I don't think were going to agree on the PS4/Xbox One successors, so I'll just add my final thoughts on the matter: there's no logical reason for that to occur, both based upon the current market and how the target audience would react, since there were already some rumblings concerning the current "upgrades".
Replacements coming too soon might very well trigger a Sega Saturn effect, as @NEStalgia put it so excellently. And that would backfire like there's no tomorrow...
Same thing with slightly worse lighting and more jaggies. Got it.
@NEStalgia - your comparison of the PS4Pro to Sega CD/32X is quite apt.
People will scoff because "the PS4 is so successful!" but so was the Sega Genesis/Megadrive.
There is never any guarantee that history or cycles will repeat themselves (although trying to find these secret revelations for Nintendo platforms written in the fate of previous consoles seems to be a full times job for Nintendo haters) , but we can look at the factors involved.
Mainly: the power arms race. Yes, the bitwars and chaos of the early-mid 90s where you had Sony first enter the console fray and Sega suddenly found themselves pushing out stop-gap machines to compete with all the new advances in tech...people grew tired of the add-ons and iterations until they finally got it right with the Dreamcast....which was unfortunately too little too late.
Of course, all of this remains to be seen with the current iterative console power wars.
@Nico07 dude the PS4 version has long load times also
They look identical to me
@ThanosReXXX @Action51
I don't agree with the comparison between PS4 Pro and Mega CD/32X. The Sega consoles had separate libraries whereas nobody buying a Pro is complaining about lack of games, their existing libraries just carry over. The user base isn't split and neither is the development community.
Pro is about getting a foot in a few 4k doors (however fake it may be and despite the bizarre lack of a UHD Blu-ray Drive). Helping sell the TV's, giving Devs an incentive to start moving towards 4k and maybe give users with the right TV's an upgrade path that isn't defective to PC gaming. Not the loftiest of goals and I'm not sure how they'll be judging success but it's more New 3DS then 32x.
@electrolite77 - To be fair...
At that time, outside of personal computers which actually had more variation between releases (Commodore, Amiga, ZX Spectrum, Tandy) at that time than we have today, consoles had largely exclusive libraries.
The very idea of a multi-platform release of the same game is relatively new, or at least dates back to around the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube generation.
If anything, multi-platform releases in previous gens were:
a) rare
b) often completely different games developed by different teams
c) licensed movie or TV show shovelware
@Action51
Yeah I remember the likes of Contra and Aladdin being different games on SNES and Megadrive. PlayStation/Saturn and PC shared a few but as you say, it was the generation after where multiplats became a thing.
What I was getting at and why I don't think there are parallels between Pro and other upgrades is the likes of Pro and New 3DS run the same games either the same or better. Whereas if you wanted e.g. Flashback on Megadrive and Mega CD you had to buy two versions. It's the same when people compare Switch to Vita. The latter was a distinct machine from PS3 with a distinct library.
@ThanosReXXX "Personally, I don't see that, and Nintendo reiterating continued support for the 3DS should be a clear sign for everyone that the Switch is NOT meant to be Nintendo's next portable."
You can't be serious. Nitneod says that about EVERY new console that comes out. They said NX wouldn't' be a Wii U replacement either.
"The NX is neither the successor to the Wii U nor to the 3DS", said Kimishima
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/16/nintendo-president-nx-is-not-the-successor-to-the-wii-u-nor-to-the-3ds
Are you telling me Wii U is still begin supported, or another console that is the successor to the Switch will be released soon? Switch is the Wii U successor, and by 2018 some form of Switch - either a mini or a dockless bundle - will replace the 3DS. Why go to all the trouble of combining software divisions to make another separate OS handheld? Plus, you were against the dock hybrid from the start, quoting all of those quotes about following Apple, making many devices run the same games. Why go against that now?
And of course the famous "third pillar" DS not replacing the Gameboy. When's the last time you saw a new Gameboy or Gameboy game?
Nintendo had to say "Switch isn't replacing the 3DS" in case the Switch fails, then they can keep supporting the 3DS or make a new 4DS, but w/ Switch doing ok, I don't see why they'd continue w/ a 3DS successor. And I certainly wouldn't' believe anything they say at face value, bunch of liars and hypocrites covering their behinds is all, like any good businessman or politician does.
"and since they are so far behind in sales, the PS4 is now the natural choice for a primary development platform."
Sony has, what I think at least, are better exclusives like Uncharted, The Last of Us and God of War, good to have studios like Santa Monica and Naughty Dog on your side, and after Sunset Overdrive I don't think Insomniac will make another MS exclusive again. And Insomniac. And after poor "Rise of the Tomb Raider" sales on X1 I doubt Squenix will be signing up for many more timed exclusives either.
And I know about how things played out, I was railing on Pushsquare about how Sony spent half a year promoting PS4 w/ pictures that included the camera, then dropped it, and $100, at E3. But you can't say Sony really did anything wrong except capitalize on MS mistakes. Just like Sony made mistakes w/ the PS3 blu-ray player and price, and Ntinedo made mistakes w/ Wii U everything. But I kind of feel like now it's too late for MS to bounce back, this half-gen or next, Playstation is the defacto home videogame console, Nintnedo will become the defacto fun hybrid, and MS is the company hooking up a PC to your tv for Americans to play FPS and sports games. I can't imagine any future scenario where any future Xbox generations sell well in Japan. And changing the name to SurfaceGaming or something won't change that either. I don't pity MS, they own PC gaming, but I don't see their stand alone home consoles ever being in the lead again. Better off just making PC gaming stream to a $100 dongle-box or play on Surface Pro on the go. As you say, the big dedicated TV boxes are all going away at some point anyway. If Scorpio fails that could be it for them.
@rjejr Pretty much agreed across the board. XBox's sole and only strength has been its online. If you know someone you have to buy in if you want to play with them. But that worked only as long as they were #1 last gen. This time, the inverse works against them, everyone's on PS4. IMO XBox built its reputation during the 360 as the first console filled with the kinds of games that were previously for PC gamers mostly. Once it lost that "niche" to Sony and even Nintendo briefly, it kind of lost its reason to exist. Considering the only point of the XBox to start with was to cement Windows as an entertainment platform and secure the continued monopoly of DirecX for games, I'm not sure they ever bothered thinking too hard about how to really build a platform instead of how to shoehorn fast sales and make an everything box. The only reason 360 got so far was because PS3 BOMBED their launch catastrophically and priced the device out of consumer reach. When Sony finally came back to earth, MS' hand of deuces was finally laid bare. Big credit goes to the current leadership dealing with what they have, but Mattrick, Ballmer, and friends left a very deep hole behind.
And agreed that PS4 Pro and Scorpio primarily exist to make the normal versions look more attractive, the whole "premium catalyst" thing. And it works, big time. It's like Sennheiser's $10,000 made to order headphones. If they sell a few hundred a year it would be miraculous. Fun gift for Fortune 500 CEOs and kings of oil-rich countries. But makes those $1200 headphones seem like an absolute bargain!
Pro & Scorpio are something VERY different from N3DS, PS3Slim, etc. etc. The others are hardware revisions that provide the same product, but either with newer, cooler, more energy efficient (and cheaper) hardware to do the same thing in the Slim model case (usually with a slight bump that happens to go along with it, that places like Digital Foundry and Neogaf can play with) or in the case of N3DS it's a hardware revision that improves some basic hardware features (better display functionality, and integrates an old accessory (circle pad pro) into the base hardware via the numb and the ZR/ZL". It offers "more power" but it wasn't really marketed as such, it had one exclusive game to showcase it, a few download games, and then, yes, Koei put out a few exclusives. Capcom did use the graphics power of it. But it was never marketed as such and that was never even and advertised feature by capcom.) N3DS was never sold as a new or upgraded platform, it was just the improved model hardware going forward. More like the PS4 Slim, XBox 1S. It did have some nice hardware features added, but it's the same software platform outside 5 games total or so. The performance boost was only sold as making downloads, browser, and eshop perform more smoothly while a game is running.
Pro/Scorpio is something VERY different. It's being billed as effectively the replacement platform, where if you want the best PS4/X1 experience you need to upgrade to it, the old one is still supported but it's the inferior way to play, and marketing going forward will be about pushing what the game can do on the MkII (oh and it also runs on the MkI) to push the new hardware. N3DS was replacement hardware and was just the newer version on shelves. It didn't segment the customer base. The other two are setting up a tierd system to their platform, and telling the early adopters they're out of date. PS4 Pro may be a little of a joke (and failure) possibly because they CAN'T promote it too hard without an uprising of their fans. Scorpio's going all in for "this thing is magnitudes old powerful than the old one" That's not a bump, that's a replacement that they're going to pigeonhole into operating as a bump. The 1S was the bump. I.E. Slim/N3DS etc didn't actually change the base platform, it just improved performance numbers slightly. Pro/Scorpio changes the base platform. Scorpio more than Pro. It's ugly, and it's one of those rare instances where fans are actually noticing. (Wait, my $400 box that had no games for a year and a half, finally got games for the last year and you're telling me I should buy ANOTHER $400 box to do it right? But you told me the last one was so powerful!)
@ThanosReXXX "I think the jury is still out on that one. Personally, I don't see that, and Nintendo reiterating continued support for the 3DS should be a clear sign for everyone that the Switch is NOT meant to be Nintendo's next portable. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a new dedicated handheld is announced somewhere in the near future..."
I think Nintendo's been clear enough that Switch is the replacement, but they're hedging their statements until they actually sunset the platform as they still have first and major 3rd party software and a holiday cycle for it. The giveaway is the language both Reggie AND Kimishima (rare synergy between the two branches) are using about 3DS "A great entry level platform with a huge library" "excellent choice for a platform for kids getting their first console, and then maybe growing into [sic] Nintendo Switch", etc. They've moved 3DS language to be a budget entry product for kids until they're old enough for a Switch.
If that's not a replacement, what is?
Moreover most of the point of Switch was to NOT support two different software ecosystems, which was breaking their backs as a company, thus merging all those separate divisions together. I imagine there will be a smaller "dedicated handheld" in a few years, however, I think it will be, as rjejr likes to call it "Switch Boy", it will be Switch hardware that runs Switch games, in a more portable form factor. So still Switch, just a different piece of hardware that's more portable (and/or not dockable.) So, dedicated handheld hardware, probably, dedicated handheld platform almost absolutely certainly no chance unless Switch slows to a crawl and turns into a failure.
Also the "your kind" thing I meant marketing types who LOVE buzzwords. You mean you're not the kind that floats words like "premium catalyst"? What about "move the needle", "improve the overall synergy" "Web 2.0", etc?
@ThanosReXXX "And 4K is hardly ubiquitous"
Guess I worded that poorly. (Just went back and reread it, I should have added "TV's" after the 4k, my mistake) What I meant was, 4k is becoming ubiquitous on TV sets. Go look in a store or at a flyer, half of those TVs will be 4k.
Did you know the recent nature TV program "Planet Earth 2" was shot entirely in 4k? Some people think this show might do for 4k what the original did 10 years ago for HD.
"A decade ago, Planet Earth motivated millions of consumers to upgrade to high-definition TV sets and DVD players in order to witness the megadocumentary’s marvels in glorious (and still nascent) HD. Planet Earth II, which debuts this Saturday on BBC America, may similarly serve as a billboard for the latest television technology.
Planet Earth II was shot in so-called 4K ultra high-definition, offering an even more eye-popping experience for home viewers."
http://www.vulture.com/2017/02/planet-earth-ii-how-to-watch-in-4k-ultra-high-definition.html
Personally, I think the Superbowl getting around to airing in 4k will do more for 4k TV adoption in the US than PE2, but that's just me.
http://4k.com/news/super-bowl-li-4k-and-8k-cameras-along-with-360-degree-views-and-18343/
So, in a way you are actually making my argument for me. People are buying 4k tvs. They are starving for 4k content. PS4 Pro and X1S can't really do 4k. So... people will want to buy PS5 and Xbox Next b/c they should be able do native 4k games to play on their 4k tvs. Not now, but like I said, 2 1/2 years from now. If little tiny Switch chips can do 1080p docked, 2 years from now next gens chips should be able to manage 4k in a $399 home console.
I had a great big 250 pound 36" non-HD CRT. It was awesome and PS2 and Wii games looked great on it. Then I got a PS3. Then 2 weeks later I got a 52" 1080p tv, which made Wii and PS2 games look blurry, but man did those PS3 games look awesome. PS4 games are only slightly improved. I didn't bother w/ a PS4 Pro b/c I wasn't sold on the price vs benefit ratio. But that TV is now 8 years old, given the tech I give it another 2-4 years before it burns itself out. Then I'll buy an even bigger 4k TV, probably 65" is all I can fit, and I'll want a 4k gaming PS5 to play on it. And hopefully watch the 4k Superbowl on it.
So that's what I meant about ubiquitous 4k, the TVs, not gaming. But the adoption of 4k TVs will drive game consoles to 4k gaming in 2 1/2 years.
Here's another timeline @NEStalgia can probably help with.
2016 PS4 Pro $399 PS4 Slim/X1S $249 Wii U $299
2017 ? PS4 Pro $349 Scorpio $399 Switch $299 Slim/X1S $199
2018 ? PS4 Pro $299 Scorpio $299 Switch $249 Slim/X1S $149
so 2 1/2 years from now either all low end tech
2019 ? PS4 Pro $249 Scorpio $249 Switch $199 Slim/X1S $99
or new high end tech
2019 ? PS5 $399 PS4 Pro $249 Scorpio $249 Switch $199
If there is no new PS5 or Xbox Next holiday 2019 we are taking about 3 full upcoming holidays w/ no new consoles. PS4, X1 and Switch for 2017, 2018, 2019. In a world of new phones and tablets every year, I can't imagine no new next gen console in 2019, that's just too long for the same hardware every year at Christmas. PS4 has already sold 55 million. How many more people will need to buy a PS4 or X1 by Christmas 2019 after 2017 and 2018? How many more games can PS4/X1 get before software devs say - we needz moar powah! Switch should be fine, that's only 3 years for entirely new hardware from Ntinedo, but the companies like EA and Ubi will be looking to make 4k games by then, and the companies will be looking to sell higher end hardware than topping out at $249 or even $299.
People want to spend money at the holidays on new expensive powerful things, not old cheap weak things. Everybody - devs, retailers, manufacturers, consumers - needs a new $400 console for holiday 2019. If not Sony or MS then Ntinedo better have that Switch Pro X2 chip ready for $399 that does 4k docked.
@electrolite77 I never mentioned the Mega CD/x32, so you must be mistaken me with another commenter.
But no offense taken...
@rjejr I'm not going against anything, least of all against myself. Nintendo possibly making a new handheld doesn't exclude it running the same OS, and it was about THAT, not so much about games, or else we would indeed be looking at an even more portable Switch (is that even possible right now?) but we aren't and we won't.
The plan was SPECIFICALLY to create a shared environment that would span several iterations/generations of consoles/handhelds so that development can be unified and simplified, and in that, Iwata did indeed see Apple as a great example of how Nintendo should eventually transform itself.
And I wasn't really saying that Sony did anything wrong, they just capitalized on Microsoft's launch day mistakes and what I was saying is that the situation they are in right now would probably or even highly likely be completely different if Microsoft hadn't screwed it up.
And if you look at capital vs losses, you better believe that Sony will fall WAY before Microsoft will ever drop to one knee. If they go out, it's not out of necessity but out of choice because they still seem to be so very keen to unify their Windows and Xbox gaming environments.
Sony on the other hand, has been hemorrhaging money for years and after having to sell off two of their big departments in the past few years, one of the main things that keeps them standing upright is the PS4 and their insurance department (their biggest cash cow, but mainly in Asia), and their movie and music departments are also still good for some part of that profit, although these segments too are declining.
Microsoft has no such issues, since they can survive solely on being the operating system that almost everybody has to use, so that will insure their income for decades to come.
@NEStalgia I absolutely and positively HATE marketing blurb and popular language. I'm not your typical sales & marketing guy. I shoot sales tigers, I take coffee whenever the hell I want to, and I don't do ABC's. (check out boiler room or Glengarry Glen Ross if you didn't get all these)
And what I was saying was indeed a shared OS/platform across multiple form factors, but like I just said to rjejr in the comment above this one, that does NOT exclude another handheld. They WANTED to move towards a unified platform in software, not hardware, so I am fully expecting multiple iterations of the Switch, and maybe even something else and/or another handheld.
I guess time will tell how right I actually am. I'm feeling pretty confident about it. Switch isn't the end all be all for Nintendo, not by a long shot...
@rjejr Despite market popularity I still find the whole 4K thing silly unless you're using a ginormous screen, or sitting very close. It's very handy on phones and PCs, but even using my 4k PC monitor for photo work (shot well above 4k) I don't even notice a meaningful difference in the editing or appearance of photo work. Where I notice the MOST difference is working with text and fine lines. I think it has more benefit to text, spreadsheet, CAD, illustrators, etc far moreso than anything graphical. I found myself wondering why I spent all that extra money. But posting in NL sure looks purdy!
Most of the "bad quality video" we see has nothing to do with 4K or not. It's that most of the video and images we see are compressed out the wazoo. They won't look great on anything. That and built in scalers on TVs are generally trash.
Tthat' doesn't say it's not viable and marketable. But it's more a concoction of a TV/media industry desperate for sales than it does a useful addition. OTOH if it keeps streaming at bay and drives bandwidth costs down, I'm thrilled to support it!
Trouble with 4k superbowl is that would be for cable/streaming only I'd guess. OTA doesn't have 4k bandwidth abilities over ASTC AFAIK.
I agree with your timeline overall. But do we all remember a time when 5+ years for hardware was normal and you didn't need new hardware every 3 years? I think it's a self defeating circle. People will get burned out of a console treadmill like that. The most loyal customer base is the one getting screwed the most AND the one most likely to go PC. Phones need that turnaround time because half of them are pushed by carriers under leasing/financing/contract terms an consumers think they got a $99 phone even though they paid $1000 for an $800 phone. Consoles don't get that "luxury" to ride on, consumers feel the pinch directly. If there were no Pro/Scorpio that would be idea. Doing the Pro/Scorpio thing is a disastrous error that will come back to bite them in one or more ways when its time to do the next version.
Nintendo might have the best opportunity for the cell phone cycle. Cheaper to start, and they can sell the "upgrade" console in a bundle of JUST the console and no dock, no controllers for a discount for existing owners, like a hardware ambassador program. They won't do it. But they COULD.
@rjejr I thought as much, that you meant TV's, but I wasn't sure, so I wasn't just going to assume it...
But not everybody is buying 4K TV's either: all those billions of people across the world that still own Full HD TV's that are in perfect working order certainly won't be eager to buy a new TV as long as their current one still does the job perfectly.
As it stands now, worldwide sales expectations/market penetration of 4K TV's is expected to reach around 28 - 30% (EDIT: by the end of the financial year, aka Q1 2018) by analysts and the industry itself, so that's hardly anything to write home about.
Even if that upward line in sales doubles in the next few years, it would still take well over 4 to 5 years before the 4K TV is the standard in most homes. (and just for the record, I'm always going by worldwide numbers, not just a single area, since that's not an adequate enough indication)
And not to forget that to get the full benefit of 4K visuals, you'd need a screen of AT LEAST 60" and then you'd also need a home that's big enough so that the viewing distance is also proportional, so that's yet another reason why these numbers will probably not rise that fast any time soon.
Back to the consoles: I don't care much about past indicators, I'm looking at the now and what's happening here. And that is incremental updates of current gen consoles that still need to be able to garner a profit and a market share, and that need to have the time to be able to showcase what they can offer. And Scorpio isn't even here yet, so in my personal AND professional opinion, 2019 is a completely impossible date for them to launch yet another console.
The fans won't stand for it either, being presented with yet another model so soon, practically right after they've traded in their vanilla PS4/Xbox One for one of the higher end models...
It would be the snake eating it's own tail, and indeed VERY similar to Sega's whole x32/Saturn/Dreamcast debacle, like our debating friend @NEStalgia already previously mentioned...
@ThanosReXXX The thing Nintendo has to deal with with unified platforms is their position that they have to support their consoles almost alone. If they split up development resources as they've been for games for different systems they lose. Getting a fixed install base on a home and hybrid console is proving trouble given the Wests fixation on console graphics and Japans fixation on handhelds. Iwata also said about an NX question "we're always looking for ways to appeal to both different play styles, Japan's preference for handhelds and the preference for consoles in the West" (paraphrased from memory slightly.) That was a big hint at the hybrid thing. Bottom line is two different game libraries for two platforms where the demographic splits different regions creates the game droughts and huge expenses for them. Switch is the most perfect way to unify all that "all the games for all the play styles all on one platform" so they can crank out the content. Unlike MS they're primarily a content house that makes their money on software. They gain nothing having two hardware platforms with different libraries now that Switch can go mobile. SMT going to Switch kind of cements that 3rd parties understand this. So yeah I don't think there will be a discrete handheld platform with its own library, but a different Switch form factor is possible. Gone are the days that handhelds can crank out games with indie budgets. A "handheld" would basically have to be a Vita at minimum, a Switch at maximum.
So I think we're all in agreement, multiple form factors of Switch, and yes, it will play the same games. But whatever they come up with the library NEEDS to be both handheld and home based to appease Japan & the world at one go. And it's a carrot on stick to get western companies into Japan and vice versa.
LOL, well glad to year you're not into marketing blurb. Every time I have to deal with one of those people that speak only in "MBA-ese" I want to punch something. Hard.
@NEStalgia One small thing to add to that, which seems to create a slight misunderstanding: I'm not saying that they are going to/will have to spread their resources again AT ALL.
What I'm saying is that the OS and/or architecture used in the Switch is the foundation of the idea that Iwata came up with: a single platform/environment that can be used across hardware iterations, and that is indeed what I firmly believe will happen.
what shape or form that will take, is anyone's guess right now. But if history has learned us anything about Nintendo, it certainly isn't that they HAVE to do a certain something or have to be a certain something. They still go their own way, for better or for worse...
Lego games always look good. I'll pick it up on PS4 when it hits the $20 mark.
@ThanosReXXX
Whoops. No idea what happened there. Sorry about that.
@ThanosReXXX "2019 is a completely impossible date for them to launch yet another console."
Clarification: Impossible date to achieve success. Nothing is an impossible date for these two companies who have such a colorful history of making shooting themselves in the foot in front of a live studio audience a corporate mandate. Oh, they'll do it. One of them will. They've boxed themselves into this mess now.
I'm going to be rolling around on the floor in tears of laughter if after Scorpio hits someone at Sony says something even roughly similar to "for Playstation, it's all about the games..." as a paraphrase of Reggie in 2014 for WiiU
"The fans won't stand for it either, being presented with yet another model so soon, practically right after they've traded in their vanilla PS4/Xbox One for one of the higher end models...
It would be the snake eating it's own tail, and indeed VERY similar to Sega's whole x32/Saturn/Dreamcast debacle, like our debating friend @NEStalgia already previously mentioned...""
Yep. Despite how spineless yet whiny gamers have proved themselves to be over the years, the X1 launch shows us that even gamers have their tipping point and won't hesitate to openly revolt against their beloved platform holders. Too many platform upgrades too fast, and now that they stuck their foot in it it ends badly either way. If they don't put out a P5 soon enough they run stagnant like the 7th gen, it lingers, low interest, low profits, and they and retailers complain and PS has to make do with the so-so Pro versus the better but still so-so Scorpio (X1.11?) . If they put out a P5 or X2 in the next 2-3 years they gave a giant finger to the early adopters, possibly twice, and all the Pro/Scorpio buyers now.) Because of these idiotic measuring contest consoles, they've set themselves up for a lose-lose cycle.
Nintendo's the one that stands to benefit from it. But they of course won't take advantage of it, because they're Nintendo
And yeah, Nintendo never follows expectations (who saw 2DS coming? Show of hands. Anyone? ) but the one core philosophy they really are glued to is only one game library. WiiU is what happens when they have two DS and before was different as games could be cranked out on a retro indie budget/pacing for those things. Not any longer
@electrolite77 No worries, man. Happens to the best of us, especially when the number of comments starts to rack up...
@NEStalgia Not so much the clarification that you made from it, but in hindsight, I should have worded it a bit better.
What I meant to say was that 2019 was an impossible date in respect to it being an option for both parties to already come out with yet another completely new console, separate from the "incrementals" that we are now confronted with.
As for the whole "how powerful they are" thing: well, obviously each and every console, no matter how powerful, is always going to be so-so, since you can only make a closed-circuit system as powerful as is possible at a certain price at a certain time and in that window of opportunities, decisions are made and set in stone.
But I get your sentiment of them now having gone in that direction, and as such, they definitely pushed the cart over the hill, and now it's gaining speed, so that would either mean more incremental updates at shorter intervals, or could it actually be a new system way too early for people to be ready to accept it after all? I really don't know, but something tells me the latter is simply not logical and feasible.
It just sounds way too much like falling on your own sword to me. I have to believe that both Sony and Microsoft have something slightly smarter in mind than that, because as far as we know, they are still planning to stay around for some time to come.
A small side note: the Scorpio might still be so-so, especially compared to gaming PC's, but from what I've understood, it will be 4.5 times more powerful (6TFlops) than the standard Xbox One, whereas the PS4 Pro is only 2.25 times more powerful (4.1TFlops) than the PS4, so in comparison the Scorpio is anything BUT so-so. It will simply destroy the Pro, unless Sony has something else left up their sleeves.
And it will be the only console so far that will be able to deliver native 4K, instead of the "smart" (I'd say cowardly) solution of checker-boarding that Sony uses.
@ThanosReXXX Oh, I understood what you meant, that's what I was referring to. I agree with you that 2019 is realistically impossible and would be a guaranteed disaster. I also don't doubt one of those two boneheads will try it. It's just how they roll.
@electrolite77 the thing with 32x (more than SegaCD which is a different problem), is it's much like the Pro/Scorpio. I actually owned one of those things. I don't know why. I have a Virtual Boy and a WiiU. I'm a sucker for doomed products.
32x promised a graphics and performance improvement in your "select" existing games (it never really delivered much) plus 32x "boosted" games that use the power of the 32x. Barring the "32x exclusives" (Remember those? Heh. Heheheh...yeah....no, neither do I.) it's a lot of what Pro/Scorpio are doing. SegaCD made it worse by actually being a different platform, that required the first platform, but had few games. PSVR might actually be the closer parallel to that. Sony's doing the bigger Sega move. Which is SO funny. So now you have the original buyers, that were convinced to "upgrade" to the new one that improves graphics in just a few years, plus with PSVR the seperate platform that needs this platform, and preferably the upgrade version, to get access to the new platform (Genesis+32X+SegaCD). If one of them pulls out a new console in 2-3 years, the Saturn similarity can't be ignored.
Granted that's not to say it's a 100% paralell with Sega, and it's impossible for any of them to do quite what Sega did with Saturn (they actively burned their retail AND 3rd party partners simultaneously at launch AND announced an obscene price undercut by .....Playstation. A reality repeated by Sony after the X1 meltdown (the actual price points and times of day repeated, it was hysterical!) So if Sony's the one that goes with the 32x/CD/Saturn loop it's just going to be an irony to beat all ironies.
Not quite the meltdown Saturn was (EA vowed NEVER to develop for Sega again with how badly they were burned, Kay-Bee Toys liquidated all Sega inventory immediately. It was BAD.) I always laugh when people compare Nintendo to Sega without understanding just how deep they'd buried their head up their rears by the time Dreamcast was announced.)
But consumer reaction to that would be very very similar. You don't launch 3 $400 consoles in 5-6 years and expect fans to stay. Sony would be at risk of launching 4-5 $400 consoles in 5-6 years if you include PSVR and the inevitable PSVR2 that would go with PS5.
If they do that, they shot themselves in the foot 3 times over. So they may now be forced to hold onto this generation and hold back PS5/X2 for additional years which I can't help but think will hold back PC in terms of 3rd parties and they'll all be complaining, and a PS5/X2 would have sold much better than this Pro/Scorpio nonsense. Everybody loses no matter what they do now.
@NEStalgia " but it's the same software platform outside 5 games total or so. "
You have your entire argument backwards. PS4 Pto and X1S didn't have a single, not 1, game that the normal version can't play. New 3DS had Xenoblade Chronicles at launch, then the whole line of Sega games, and a few others, and Hyrule Warriors Lgends is barely playable on old 3DS. So to say - Pro and Scorpio suxx b/c they are new hardware for a new generation but New 3DS is ok b/c it only plays the same 3DS games - is compeltely backwards and on it's head and removed from reality.
You are better off w/ the headphone argument - Pro and Scorpio are for the Leetz hardcore gamers, but they still play the exact same games, just better for owners of 4k TVs. New 3DS has new exclusive games whether Nintneod promotes it that way that's the fact, you can NOT play 3DS game Xenoblade Chronicles on an Old 3DS.
Time for baseball and let spring break begin.
@NEStalgia
Hopefully nobody loses their corporate mind the way Sega did in 94/95! That's the case study in what not to do. I know what you're getting at in terms of releasing too many machines without it being a direct parallel. I think we're going to see a big change in what we've thought of as generations.
None of the console manufacturers are willing to take a big loss on hardware any more. They've all moved to established hardware whether it be a cut down PC or an Nvidia tablet and none of them, even at launch, were surpassing a decent PC. Because of that they wanted a higher-up model to get closer to the PC. The generic hardware allows them to increment more easily which is why you've now got two SKUs supporting the same software library at different levels of fidelity.
It all feeds into the ecosystem idea. I think it's the future now. PS5 will replace Slim with PS4 Pro becoming the low end model and in three years MS will supercede Scorpio with a more powerful model. They'll all be backwards-compatible at least one generation though hopefully more (having Xbox One able to emulate 360 gives them an advantage and they've talked about getting OG Xbox emulation working).
The possibilities for Switch are enticing. Souped-up home console, durable fixed-joycon portable, incremental upgrades to the whole thing using future tegra chips etc. It may well reach Wii sales but only through a ten-year series of upgrades. The ecosystem is what they want (it's why they went region-free).
That's my interpretation anyway. It could be MS give up and move solely to PC. It could be Sony go mad, 2006-style and release a PS5 in 2018 with no BC justified by the 'wonders' of PlayStation Now. Nintendo could in fact release a 3DS successor and a mobile phone.
One of the reasons the games industry itself is so fascinating (IMHO) is the unpredictability of it all.
Lots of people are complaining that it's a last gen game and that it's a poor comparison. I think it shows that at least you can get last gen games at 1080p docked on the switch. Guess what games are last gen? gta 5, crisis 3, battlefield 4 etc all amazing games with amazing graphics. The only real downgrade is the aliasing is crisper on ps4. If they can start making new games that are sorta mid gen portable I think that would be great
@rjejr 3DS isn't selling "better graphics than the regular version for your games" though, which is what Pro/Scorpio is selling. 3DS is selling "hardware functionality improvements on new model hardware" And it happens to have better graphics in a few games, and happens to have a dozen "exclusives" that were never widely pushed while Pro doesn't and Scorpio, theoretically isn't going to (I don't buy that for a moment...but they say it.)
More importantly, 3DS was a replacement model hardware. The old one went out of manufacturing, the new one was just the replacement hardware model. It happened to come with a slight bump and some feature enhancements, didn't sell itself as "makes everything play better (and in most cases doesn't), it was really just the updated replacement (like Slim/1S.)
Pro/Scorpio are selling themselves as the premium tier, not a replacement. I think it's the selling of it as a "premium tier version" that separates it as something else. Imagine if in 2015 they released Super WiiU for only $500. It plays all the same games as your WiiU, uses the same GamePad, but now with PS4 graphics, and almost 68% of the library will play 1080p! Regular WiiU would still be $300, and will play all the same games, but they'll look worse at lower resolution and lower framerate because BotW is really going to be made for Super WiiU now, but don't worry, we'll scale it back so it kinda runs on regular WiiU too!
Ironically some of my example sounds a lot like what happened with Switch, but therein lies the difference. Switch is a new platform, not a mid-gen bump
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