
One of the ongoing topics among eager Nintendo gamers relates to Nintendo's hardware plans beyond Nintendo Switch, particularly in terms of whether the upcoming system is going to ultimately take over from both the Wii U and 3DS. Its hybrid nature naturally raises the question of whether dedicated portable devices will still come in the future, or whether the days of distinct experiences between home and handheld systems are coming to an end.
Nintendo, for its part, remains insistent that fans shouldn't write-off dedicated portables for the future. Asked about this in his recent interview with TIME, company President Tatsumi Kimishima was clear that no direct 3DS successor is currently in development, but that the company is always looking forward and working on new ideas.
We are not creating a successor to the 3DS right now. We are, however, still thinking of portable systems. We are thinking of ways that we will be able to continue bringing portable gaming systems out, so yes, we are thinking of different ways to continue the portable gaming business.
The executive was also quizzed on whether Switch will see more frequent iterations, following the company's pattern with handhelds as opposed to the longer runs typically seen between home console revisions.
We want Switch to sell for a long time, of course, and we hope it has really long legs. That said, technology, of course, advances quickly, and so I'm not going to say that we have a team working on the next thing. But we obviously have people looking at new technologies and thinking of new ideas even now as we speak.
Virtual Reality (VR) also came up, of course, with plenty curious about the idea since it was included in a detailed Switch patent document. The concept there was simple - utilising the Switch in its tablet form factor to clip into a head mounted add-on in a similar manner to smart devices in rival products. Kimishima-san insists the Switch is powerful enough to deliver VR, but reiterated the company stance that it's exploring the best ways to use the technology.
The very simple answer is yes [on Switch being powerful enough for VR]. We've said this before, and I feel like we're saying it a lot, but we are interested and doing research into this field. The question, of course, is "What is the best way to bring virtual reality to our customers as a form of entertainment?" Not just, "Hey, look! It's realistic!" or whatever, but what is the best way to use this technology to bring something fun to our consumer base? We are definitely looking at that.
Contrary to the modern way of doing things, we'll need to be patient to see how Nintendo moves forward with Virtual Reality, and what - if any - dedicated portable devices it produces in the coming years. Should the 3DS be fully winding down by late 2017 / early 2018, it'll be intriguing to see what the big N does next.
[source time.com]
Comments 153
Great to hear. I want a new portable after the 3DS. Just hope we see it by late 2018.
EDIT: Originally I had 2017.... forgot its now 2017.
I'm optimistic that their patience with VR will pay off. There was obviously a race to be the first and best VR experience out of the gate between the currently available VR options, but there wasn't as much focus on software as I think Nintendo could provide. I know that early adopters of VR absolutely love the experiences they've had, but I wonder if Nintendo could be the team that provides a software idea that makes VR a must have. It seems that VR has not taken off like people had hoped it would yet, and the only way it ever will at this point is with price drops and compelling software.
>"Hey, look! It's realistic!" or whatever
I'm starting to like Kimishima more and more. He has been observing for so many years how the audience needs to understand why something is fun, before a product is ready.
@DiscoGentleman
Similarly, they might not want to be on the bus that drives off the cliff either.
That would be really kool but let's not forget that the Switch has a 6.2in. screen with a 720P resolution. Using the switch like a cell phone on a headmount would put screen really close to our eyes meaning we would see a lot of pixel. Even the HTC Vive dost that and it has a 1080x1200 resolution at 90fps. That is my only concerns. Off course, I know Nintendo will find something as they always do but I do not think simply putting the switch on a headmount will do.
@XCWarrior If it's not in development as Kimishima stated there's no way they'd be showing off a new portable this year!
Awesome - the Switch will be a huge hit, I am thinking of buying two once stock is Available so I can enjoy the console when my kids are playing too. I have a feeling lots of families with multiple kids will buy two. It's like a slightly more expensive 3DS. If Nintendo allows for one cartridge to support multiplayer modes like the 3DS, people will buy multiple units like I plan to 👍🏼
Anybody know for sure if Switch has everything it needs for proper VR built in? I don't mean graphics, I mean whatever is added to gyro for head tracking. We have 4 smartphones that can run Google VR graphics and have gyro but they won't track. I think it's the same thing keeping us from seeing Pokémon in Pokémon Go. We can play it just fine but we can't see themy on the camera.
Switch VR at 720p split in 2 is useable, but it won't look that great.
Why can't there be one system? Switch does both.
"We are not creating a successor to the 3DS right now."
As of anyone should have thought otherwise.
A replacement for 3ds would be great for me and I don't mean switch on the go. VR would be great but maybe on their next console after switch
Great to hear more from Kimishima himself, I think the Switch's design is amazing in its modularity, since joycons and dock can be detached, a newer stronger tablet core can be sold separately in 2-3 years or so making it a next gen Switch with a much lower cost for the consumer (you already have the dock/joycons), VR head mount can be added easily down the road since the console is already there. Or in reverse the dock can be replaced with an SCD for a sizable upgrade in power. I think Switch is the Swiss army knife of consoles and it's wonderfully designed to include past Nintendo ideas and innovations as well as newer ones like HD rumble, modularity, VR and portability!
"We are not creating a successor to the 3DS right now. We are, however, still thinking of portable systems. We are thinking of ways that we will be able to continue bringing portable gaming systems out, so yes, we are thinking of different ways to continue the portable gaming business."
Of course they're not creating a successor to 3DS because its successor arrives on 3rd March. And the Switch is a portable despite the lies.
Translation: If others are making money in VR, Nintendo will bring out their own VR. And: They will support the 3DS and the Switch as long as there's money to be made supporting these platforms.
This is basic business 101.
If they can get a VR headset working that uses the Switch's screen, then they could have a pretty major impact on VR in gaming, as it will make it far more accessible for people who can't afford the additional cost of the elaborate headsets that are currently being used.
Who remembers the SUPER FX CHIP in the Snes carts, to give an extra boost of graphical power............. the Switch uses sd cards maybe I just don't know but maybe they will do something similar for Switch VR!!!!!!! just saying.
"Hey, it's realistic!"
I wholeheartedly agree with Kimishima-sama.
Does anyone know when the switch will be available for pre-order again I'm in the USA and everywhere I look its sold out and I already saw people selling their reserves for $500+ dollars.
So according to Kimishima the Switch is powerful enough for VR? Hmm interesting!
@Jessica286 read my previous comment
I still don't like the VR idea.
virtual boy 2, then? the irony of how the switch potentially has the best controls for v.r. but they don't have a headset.
I'm hopeful that Switch will be both, my new handheld system replacing my current 3DS and my new home console. I don't feel the need right now for a different portable device unless it is a virtual console only thing.
About VR, I'm in the minority that couldn't care less about it.
By the way, the whole interview with Kimishima is worth reading.
@tonyp1987 I heard that preorders popped up again a few days ago on Best Buy. I don't think it is truly as scarce as it seems, I think there is a combination of two things at work: 1. Some people have preordered multiple switches and will cancel their preorders once they know they are actually legitimate through one of the companies they preordered with, and 2. A lot of people have decided that scalping looks like a pretty good idea in light of the NES mini ordeal. Switches will be replaced on store shelves much more quickly than NES mini, and the ability to profit by reselling will quickly be suppressed. Of course this is all my opinion, but I imagine that the people who are paying ridiculous prices online right now are doing it out of convenience, not true scarcity.
looks at calendar
sees portable console being released in March
We are looking into VR but we can't be arsed giving u a browser.
@Splatmaster
The Super FX chip idea isn't feasible in 2017 technology. The switch doesn't have the guts in it to do VR on the level of PSVR/Vive/Oculus, and I hope nobody is getting hopes up.
You might maybe get the janky phone VR that isn't very good, I suppose.
Hold on, isn't Switch 720p?
Nintendo could create a smaller version of Switch with phone capabilities. It wouldn't be a 3DS successor, but it could be an alternate device that co-exists in the Switch family of systems. Investors want them to enter the mobile market, but rather than making games for mobile, why not make a Nintendo Phone? Switch could be moving in that direction in the next few years, but I don't think Nintendo is bold enough to go for it.
Edit: Plus a smaller size would be more appropriate for a VR headset. I can't imagine wearing a Switch on my face. I feel like it would be too heavy.
Great News for those that can make it E3 will be open to the public this year. Good luck getting a ticket guys. 15.000 tickets available from next Tuesday priced $250... Update not Tuesday but Monday also the price can drop to $150 with early bird discount
@XCWarrior A new portable by late 2017, when the guy's just said they're not working on one...Âż
I really wish we'd more often hear a lot more direct from Kimishima. I know they want to put the young faces forward, but his direct "tell it like it is" approach is such an unusual thing in Nintendo. It's always refreshing to hear their actual viewpoint on things. In some ways he's more DIRECT than Iwata ever was, who seemed to enjoy talking in riddles
@DiscoGentleman
I know it seems like a harmless thing to pull off, but people are very scrutinizing with everything Nintendo puts out.
For what you suggest, there's R&D costs, marketing costs, manufacturing costs, and distribution costs to consider, not to mention the cost of people not trusting them again if it isn't great.
It's potentially a LOT of harm to do something like VR half-assed, if it's a market they truly are interested in.
I'm genuinely interested to see where Nintendo goes with VR, hopefully relatively soon--it's the most exciting thing to happen in gaming, and entertainment in general, for generations.
@Savino It's not terrible on VR at all. It's not perfect but it has moments of magic for sure. And, 720p would be rather low resolution for VR but I've viewed videos on my iPhone 4 using a cheap VR headset and even that is useable, so it would certainly work on Switch. Yes, the resolution would be low but there's just as important stuff to get right in good VR, like latency, framerate, head tracking, input, 3D audio, and that kind of stuff. If Nintendo can manage that it could actually provide a pretty decent VR experience. And there's nothing to say it won't come out with a higher resolution screen at some point in the future anyway.
@NoxAeturnus The Switch console by itself is only about 300g. If you look at the PSVR in weight it's about 600g held up by your neck. If Nintendo really is going to release a shell that the Switch fits into (described loosely in the patent) there's no way it will be heavier than the PSVR. Even the Vive and Oculus Rift are between 470-560g.
Who needs vr when you can count ice cubes in a cup.
There is talks of more accessories than games
@Tman Your point is valid. However, I tried the PSVR and found it uncomfortable. No matter how cool the tech is, I don't think I'll adopt it until it gets past that personal barrier. Granted, lots of people seem to have no problem with it and have been having a blast, and I selfishly hope they continue to do so to encourage these companies to improve the technology for me.
I love VR.
It's not something I'm in the mood for all the time, but it's absolutely amazing to play from time to time.
The resolution would be a hurdle, but not insurmountable. PSVR uses techniques to eliminate some of the screen door effect. And you can still see the pixels in dark scenes, but it's still awesome fun. I imagine even if there is small screen door effect on Nintendo VR, it won't be a deal breaker
Sega nomad. It was a console and handheld.
Who would of thought of it back then
Oh. My. Gosh, Nintendo.
WHICH IS IT? Is the Switch a bridge console, or is it a lackluster home console? Is the Switch the successor to both the 3DS and the Wii U, or is it just a Wii U successor? Do you even know what to do with the system?
You SHOULD be trying to make sure all handheld and console devs make games for this one console. Stop with the contradictory statements. One moment the Switch is meant to be an all in one console with you, next it's just a home console that can leave home and won't get the game franchises that actually sell your consoles. The same ones that appear on the 3DS right now. You should be doing everything in your power to bring that userbase to the Switch, because that's the userbase that could atleast keep you afloat and mildly successful with the system.
@datamonkey @gcunit You must be a young 'un and was not around for the infamous Nintendo statement. "There is no revision to the DS coming." And the next day they released the DS Lite.
Nintendo is always working on a new system. Don't listen to their BS. Companies - all companies - spew BS. They don't want you to wait and buy their better product down the road, they need you to buy their new product NOW.
@Thermoclorn thanks I will keep a look out I'm a huge Zelda fan and really want it plus I can't wait for vc (gamecube) games on the switch.....i can only hope it comes true.
@DiscoGentleman
I'm sure it would already draw attention from being the cheapest solution, but there are a few things missing from the equation, as I see it.
Does the Switch console itself even include gyroscopes and accelerometers? Maybe those are only in the joycons. If it doesn't have those, what the patent suggests wouldn't be available out of the box.
Then there's the weight. Already the systems that only have a screen or a slim phone in front of your head feel quite heavy and cumbersome. (to me at least.)
So while I'm excited to see where this might go as well, I'm ready to trust Nintendo on the tech not being ready to go just yet.
Nintendo + VR + metroid = heaven
if nintendo realeses a portable device in the switch lifetime I would feel cheated from their part.
I mean, I would buy a switch just because it will have the portable franchises the 3ds had (and the home console ones as a bonus) not the other way.
Yay, brace yourself, another game drought coming for the home console, the handheld will take all the best games again!
Now seriously, I have said that before. I'm fine with a dedicated handheld as long as It doesn't compet with the Switch. Switch can Be used as a handheld, so make handheld games for It, already anounced Fire Emblem, but bring Pokémon, that's all you gotta do to have our money in a single unified console! Don't kill your own console Nintendo!
Rant over. I don't think they will anouce another handheld anytime soon, they are not that dumb.
I hope the Switch has really long legs too. So you can play in table top mode whilst on the toilet.
@RaphaBoss I agree give you pokemon on the switch will sell units plus give us paper mario, mario party, metroid, mario rpg, virtual console (nes, snes, gb/gbc/gba, ds, n64, gamecube and wii games) on the switch.
Funny thing is, people are falling all over each other in their haste to condemn a possibly future Nintendo Switch VR solution, but when VR videos are released of NES VR on the Gear VR, Vive or the Oculus, people are enthusiastic beyond belief. Talk about seeing pixels...
Nintendo WILL make this work, period. Even if the quality of the games is close to N64 graphics, then it would still be a great experience walking around in worlds that we know from that console...
Pokémon Snap is one great example that comes to mind, incorporating the Joy-Cons for everything from vehicles and camera's to discovering and feeling Pokémon...
@ThanosReXXX VR of NES games is a thing? I mean, what exactly is the point? Isn't it just watching 2D screens in a dark goggleset? Can't I get the same effect looking at a 2D monitor if I turn out the lights?
I have said it so many times. Just showing a VR peripheral, confirming it exists would make AL lot of people think twice about getting a PSVR vs a Switch.
@XCWarrior
Stuff like the DS Lite and 3DS XL are revisions. They are still part of the DS and 3DS family respectively. Telling people that such revisions don't exist only to confirm their existence days later may seem deceptive, but ultimately, consumers are still getting the same product as before, only slimmer (in the case of the DS Lite) or bigger ( in the case of the 3DS XL).
Nintendo may very well be working on a Switch revision. That I can believe, though I doubt such a Switch revision will be released this calendar year. I can see it coming in 2018.
What Nintendo won't do is announce and release a completely new and separate successor to the 3DS in 2017 even after the company's CEO has outright denied that the company is even working on it.
@westman98 Ah... now I see why people are responding to my comment. I forgot it was 2017 now, not 2016.
I meant to say late 2018.
@XCWarrior
Nintendo "could" release a dedicated and separate 3DS successor in 2018 if the Switch completely bombs like the Wii U.
But if that "nightmare" scenario doesn't happen, I don't think a new handheld is coming in 2018. Instead, a more portable friendly Switch revision bundled without a dock will likely become the "successor" to the 3DS.
First time i saw this picture..mind blowing. We have just all we need for VR with the switch...A screen, two controllers with motion detection, a great software delevop company....we need just the helmet...
Im sure Nintendo will do this in the future. Cant wait for that. And for a Starfox VR.
Even if it's "capable" of VR, I suspect that what it can actually RENDER will be quite limited. Plus, I can only see problems with SwitchVR consider how low the pixel density of the Switch's screen is compared to what would be considered optimal. They would also need to figure out how they're going to do positional tracking for the headset and the controllers. Also weight and heat issues, etc.
@NEStalgia No, it was actually NES games reworked to be played in first person. Have you never seen the Zelda one?
And here's another one, in case you want to see more (or don't like the guys voice or whatever... )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGFOp0M0YyM
And just to give you an idea how cool Switch VR would be, even with N64 graphics (since I also mentioned that) here's the Oculus Rift version of Ocarina of Time:
And here's a custom Mario Kart 64 in VR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInCc2xeA5E
And once you've seen that, upgrading to Metroid Prime VR is amazing, just imagine how that would be on the Switch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEKQ3DMtZ7I
I don't think we'll hear complaints about it "only" being 720p. People will be all over this, I'm pretty sure of that...
And as a final example, here's Wind Waker VR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhyzZcb6sI
@XCWarrior
What part of "Switch is a hybrid" do you not understand? It's BOTH. It successes Wii U. It successes 3DS. It successes BOTH.
-
Rest In Peace
-Wii U-
@westman98 A true portable Switch is still a new portable in my eyes. That's what I want.
I don't like the look of Switch. I think after the first month you're going to see a sharp decline in sales. I could be wrong... but I dunno. I hear people's impression on podcasts, they all grumble about those joycons. They aren't as comfortable as Wiiremotes. I don't know if people are going ot go to a party, play 1 2 Switch with a Joy Con, and get hooked like they did Wii Sports.
Cause everyone wants to bowl... hardly anyone has a fierce desire to milk a cow. (HOW I HATE mini game).
@iGen Reggie said multiple times the week of the big reveal Switch is a console. It just happens to be portable.
Another system or a revision is coming. Bank on it.
@XCWarrior "they all grumble about those joycons"
Well, that's odd, since most people that have had a hands-on experience are actually quite positive, both about the Switch itself AND the controllers, so I don't know who these "all" are, but maybe you are only listening to the wrong channels. And even so, there's never going to be any unanimous decision on anything, since we all have our opinions, but by and large, the internet and the various media are positive, especially after having spent some time with the Switch.
The entire NLife crew is positive, and every other Nintendo related site is as well, with only a few minor niggles here and there, so yeah...
but this is not real VR ? it looks like samsung galaxy VR kinda cheap ... it cost how much 50$ ?
i want something like PS VR real one ... i still enjoy mine and i can see the difference between samsung VR and PS VR ... way different ! but the problem is the set up ... too much wires !!!!!!!!! and it cost me 550$ ;x and the ps4 pro cost around 430$ (include tax)
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I love that there's a separate tin-foil hat for gamers who love conspiracy theories.
Good one. But the Switch doesn't make for a comparable portable gaming experience and would be a failure as an attempt to replace the 3DS. The 3DS market is much different than the Switch demographic. Even the price point rules it out as a successor.
@ThanosReXXX Listened to multiple people on Nintendo World Report who've hands on with the Switch. They all like the system. But when asked how it is to use just a joy con to play, they all hesistate and say, "it works." But they all say it doesn't feel great.
You want the casual to feel comfortable, and that right joy con in particular could be a detriment.
For the most part, they all love Switch, but the other repeating theme is, "Buy a Pro Controller." Which strengthens my arguement there needs to be a version of the Switch that lacks the motion control nonsense that needed to stay in the Wii era where it was a fun gimmick but is not as good as buttons.
'The very simple answer is yes [on Switch being powerful enough for VR].'
Well yeah, the same way any Smartphone is powerful enough for VR.
But that's not the point, VR dedicated gaming needs more powerful hardware than just a Tegra chip. Even the strongest gaming PCs are not powerful enough for proper VR gaming and the same goes for the new PS4 etc.
I went to a Facebook tent on a xmas market recently during a trip to New York. I was blown away by how good their VR was (is it oculus?) however after 10 minutes I was kinda bored and started feeling a bit sick. It reminds me of 3D films where at first you think it's amazing but quickly get tired of the gimmick and just want to get on with the film. Every now and again something random pops out at you without adding anything to the story. It can be quite jarring. One of the many strengths of the Switch is bringing people together to play games. VR just isolates the player.
@XCWarrior
Guess what? The 3DS is a console too. The GameBoy Advance was a console just as well. They were simply handheld consoles. You can hold the Switch in your hands, too. And they merged their handheld and home console development teams. If that's not "hybrid", I don't know what is.
Meanwhile, they're advertising left and right that you can take the Switch anywhere with you. A dedicated handheld console would be redundant at this point,. You only need a purse, briefcase, backpack, or carrying case for your Switch. But many people needed that for the DS as well. Same flippin' thing.
Argument invalid. Point remains. (I love those lines.)
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Rest In Peace
-Wii U-
@iGen My new 3DS XL fits fine in my pocket. I wear 32/30, so about as small as an adult can find pants. So no, people did not need a purse. Maybe you used it as an excuse to carry a purse, but you didn't need it for the 3DS.
Actually lug that Switch around for a month before you think it's as easy as clamshall DS or 3DS.
And the WiiU will never rest in peace.
@XCWarrior
The casual could simply chose not to use a Joy-con by itself. They are simply there for convenience not practicality.
If you offer a version of Switch that doesn't include Joy-cons you begin to fracture and marginalize the fan base. So developers who made games with motion controls or prioritizes HD Rumble for Switch prior to the debut of a motion control-less Switch can't sell their game to customers who buy the latter version.
It ain't good business sense. And you can fit Switch in a pocket... ya just gotta put your joy-cons in another.
I'd like to see a successor to the 3DS too.
@Turbo857 Show me a video of someone putting a Switch in their pocket. With the joycons or without. And then they have to sit down.
I have my 3DS with me almost every day, its in my pocket. Doesn't bug me at all. And I don't have to worry about scratching up the screen if I bump something.
@XCWarrior
I put my iphone 6 in my pocket with screen facing my leg so anything hits it, the screen won't get damaged. I'm sure the Switch screen could be handled the same way.
When I get the Switch I'll be sure to share a video with ya on my channel sitting with it in my pocket (without joy-cons).
This whole "I don't like Product X so obviously a completely new and separate Product Y is coming even though Product Y doesn't actually exist in any current form" needs to stop.
@iGen Gender labeling I see? I have no doubt there are some men out there who use purses, and wear dresses. Tsk tsk you and your sterotypes.
My 3DS is with me almost every day. My tablet same (but have to carrry that in a bag). Nearly everyone has an expensive phone in their pocket. And I don't live in the hood, so not worried about being robbed.
You haven't made a point yet beyond it's clear Drumpf is your hero and you like to make similar "wrong" statement to make yourself feel like you are right.
People are enjoying the death of the Wii U far too much for it be peaceful.
@Turbo857 WITH JOY-Cons. Gotta be able to play the Switch right from your pocket. But it's going to be struggle even without them.
Ugh, do your own thing, don't buy into this
strapping a screen to your face"VR" excrementI would love VR on the Switch but at the supported resolutions it would look absolutely horrible. I'm also waiting for displays that emit far less blue light to be used in VR headsets. I recently read about new tech that has this. Can't find the article anymore...
I hope there will be a new version of the 3DS one day. I certainly hope that they won't drop 3D support. I know I'm in the minority here, but absolutely love Zelda OoC, MM and Link between Worlds in 3D!
@XCWarrior I suppose you mean the right Joy-Con in two player games, because of the analog stick's placement? I can get that.
The attachments with wrist cord should make them more comfortable, though, from what I've heard and how would you then account for the huge disparity between what you've heard from NWR and places like here, where most reporters are both lyrical of the Switch itself as well as the controllers, calling them little technological marvels and what not?
Taking a safe bet, I'd say the truth lies in the middle, so for some of us, it isn't going to be as good as the enthusiasts say it is, but it certainly also isn't nearly as bad as others say it is.
But regardless of what any of these groups think or say, I'll make up my own mind in the end. And I also feel, as I have already quite elaborately explained in quite a few threads, that this is far from the same as Wii motion/waggle controls.
Advanced haptic feedback is so, so much more and I truly believe that ALL of us need to experience that for ourselves and not be so prejudiced because they think they can compare it to the Wii, so they think they won't like it.
First taste the dish before you say that you don't like the food...
VR is far from ready for the average consumer. Virtual reality sickness (it affects anywhere between 50-70% of users) is still very common and the amount it costs to even get setup properly will cost the average consumer more than most are willing to pay. I mean motion controls became popular because the price was right (the Wii launched at $250), but on consoles VR costs $300 for a PS4 ($450 if you want the PRO) and another $500 for the headset so on the low end it costs $800. That and also it is very limited right now on what you can do that will not cause VR Sickness, mostly stationary experiences. As I see it right now VR is a ridicules expense that most consumers are unwilling to pay for the experience to just get sick.
I say it will be another 5 years before the tech is practical so Nintendo is smart by just continuing researching the thing.
@ThanosReXXX I'll happily let you all take that super expensive taste first. If I see most of you didn't die from the dish, I'll wait a year and when the better tasting, longer battery life lasting dish comes out, I'll eat that one.
(I apparently in the minority of the people who bought a WiiU Day 1, and was a 3DS ambassador, and am really pissed and regret being an early adopter. Refuse to do it again).
@iGen @XCWarrior
"Men do not carry purses, child. That was intended for women."
iGen: 15 years old
XCWarrior: 32 years old
Sooo we've got a child telling an adult more than twice their age what it is that adults do and calls them a child. I'm sure there is a word to describe this, but I'm not sure what it is, so I'm going to call it stupid.
iGen, do you know what a manbag is? It's a purse for a man.
@XCWarrior
Actually, I was going more for this:
But you can keep whining about the republican victory, if that's your sort of pie.
@shaneoh Yeah, it took me far too long to realize I was arguing with a wall... I'm done with that one.
At least @ThanosReXXX and @Turbo857 act mature, regarless of age (I forgot NLife you can fill that out, lol)
Nintendo needs to get on this VR hype train right now! They are so behind the times. Even cows have experienced VR more than us Nintendo fans.

If the next dedicated portable Nintendo system does come around, it should be able to run Switch games(or at leat some of them). Perhaps it can just be a smaller Switch with nonremovable controllers?
@XCWarrior Nice analogy, well played.
Just to be clear: I'm no early adopter either, but that's not exclusive to the Switch. I've never bought any console or handheld day one. In fact, I've only just recently bought a Wii U, last Christmas. Because of several reasons, mostly financial because starting my own business and making it viable took precedence over buying any luxury items, and that took me all of almost two years.
Sticking a low res screen in a box on your head is a bad idea.
I have the S7 edge and the Oculus Samsung VR headset. It's fun exactly one or two times. Even with the ridiculous pixel density of the Galaxy S7 you can still see every pixel, and it's never quite incorrect focus and it is just not a pleasurable experience.
@ThanosReXXX I got Wii Day 1, that was well worth it just for Zelda and Wii Sports, and Tetris Party was very early. I waited until like year 3 for DS, which was for the better, tons of games on the cheap already in the library.
But I still don't like the look of the Switch... it just reminds me too much of the WiiU gamepad. I'm very intersted to see the sales in month 2.
@XCWarrior Curious about that myself as well. I'm eager to find out if the considerably better initial marketing campaign has had any significant effect.
I got the Wii during the "second wave". I actually did preorder, but it fell through because there weren't enough and I ordered late, so I had to wait for almost a year.
Now that you mentioned DS and such, I had to remind myself that I was also a VERY late adopter of the DSi: I bought a DSi XL AFTER I bought my 3DS XL... and that was two years ago...
It was more because I didn't see the benefit of it back then, already had a DS Phat and a DS Lite, but in the end I decided to have a more complete collection, so I bought one anyway. A yellow one. Sticks out nicely beside my silver DS Phat, black DS Lite, black 3DS and transparent purple Game Boy Color...
EDIT:
Forgot to list my clear purple GBA and plain silver GBA SP in that list...
They don't need to make a headset. Just get some cardboard and you can make a headset that fits the Switch. Then just take out some joycons and your all set. All they need are games.
Someone made a mock-up of the Switch VR, looks rather nice:

@iGen
Where to start... well I wasn't expecting you to acknowledge him as a superior, I was pointing out how warped you statement was, when you seem to think you know more about being an adult than an actual adult. Standards have changed marrying a 12 year old off is strongly discouraged these days, doesn't mean it was a good idea back then either. It's true, I know nothing about either of you, but the same can be said of you, you don't know either of us.
You caught me, I'm deathly afraid of people knowing how old I am. I applaud your bravery young tiger, now go wrestle a lion, show the world your manliness.
I didn't see that post from XC, I admit it. So what? My facts were straight. I was talking about what you typed, not him.
Being 15, you are still a child in the eyes of society, you aren't allowed to drink, smoke, vote, procreate, make significant decisions about your life without parental consent. You might be in a different developmental stage to a 5 year old, but you're still a child.
The word I'm looking for isn't hypocritical, calling a person immature based on a stereotype of an entire generation (which, frankly is a stereotype I've never heard) is hypocritical. After all weren't you the one saying I don't know XCWarrior? Also don't think the hypocrisy of pointing out hypocrisy is lost on me. Ironic is probably a closer word to how I feel about your statement, but I don't think that fits either, perhaps it's an unholy mixture of both words.
I'm well aware what a figure of speech is, but frankly all it emphasises, to put it nicely, is your pretentiousness.
Ultimately your response meant nothing as you deliberately failed to acknowledge the key point: There are purses for men, they are called MAN-BAGS.
Hopefully it doesn't receive the same fate as Virtual Boy.
@XCWarrior
Gosh... will you put Switch in your pocket ?
Use your logic.
The size of Switch is NOT fit with regular pocket unless if you wear MC Hammer pants.
Use your hand bag to carry Switch on the go. Problem solved.
Don't insist to use your pocket to put inside Switch.
Even I use my hand bag to carry my 3DS XL on the go ( And my hand bag is inside my backpack).
I don't want put my 3DS XL inside my pants' pocket because it may damage my 3DS if I bumped with something hard.
Use your hand bag and stop complaining.
@ThanosReXXX
Hahaha...
I am also do same thing when I want to buy a new video game machines.
I buy the games first, wait for price drop and more color variation / limited edition bundles and then buy 1.
Btw, I'm a bit disappointed by lack of Internet Browsing or Youtube on Switch. But, I think those apps probably available from eshop, not already available by default.
@iGen
Um... I have a woman bag (Made of Jeans fabric) to carry my other stuffs at school and nobody critique at me. Also, I ever carry my woman hand bag at public place and nobody looking at me with weird reactions. So, i'm very confident to carry whatever I want as long appropriate. Sorry for bothering you....
@Anti-Matter
You get a heart for admitting that.
Sounds like a true successor to the 3DS would be a very basic SKU of the Switch (stripped down JoyCons and probably a beefier battery)
Thank goodness he put the "3DS successor" thing to rest. Sounds like if they were to make a new "portable" it would just be a smaller Switch.
@iGen
Touched a nerve I think. But I'm much happier that you've admitted to the existence of man-bags, as it renders this statement you made void:
"Men do not carry purses, child. That was intended for women."
Turns out men do carry purses. You men stand proud, you pave the way for the rest of us.
Now I'm a tad worried about your psyche to comment on everything unsettling with what you've just posted, so I'll only take a final parting shot:
"Do you really expect me to yield to their beliefs and expectations?"
You do, whether you think you do or not.
@iGen
"If you knew me, you would know I go against the grain on everything."
Right, tell me that when you murder someone. Break the cardinal rule of society. Except don't. You're really going against the grain here at NintendoLife, it's a smaller society, sure, but you've managed to last nearly four years. Good Job. I know you better than you think. Except you would never admit that I'm right, unless it were to prove me wrong
You might want to check Wikipedia:
"A handbag, also purse or pouch in North American English, is a handled medium-to-large bag that is often fashionably designed, often used by women, to hold personal items."
Oh, look, they have a segment for Man Bags:
"The names man bag, man-purse and murse have been used."
Oh damn, the oldest known purse belonged to a man:
"The oldest known purse dates back more than 5000 years, and was a pouch worn by a man, Ă–tzi the Iceman."
(Hey, if you can bring up marrying a 12 year old, I can bring that up.)
Of course, those links aren't needed as a man has already, bravely, admitted to owning a purse in this very comment section. It is beyond contention, men carry purses, not all, but enough to invalidate that sentence you typed.
@iGen I wouldn't say the Wii U had a 'peaceful' death, it was more like Nintendo took it out back and shot it. Unfortunate, but it had to be done, the Wii U showed it's age the day it was released. I love my Wii U and the games it offered, but it had no chance in the market it that it was in.
@Anti-Matter I don't take the bag everywhere. I do wear pants everywhere, or at least shorts in the summer.
I like having a game to play on the go. I have a flip phone, not a smart phone, so that isn't an option.
I want a dedicate handheld. Period. You don't have to want one, but I do.
@Anti-Matter Years ago they tried going upscale with selling handbags, slightly redesigned as "manbags" in an attempt to make inroads into the male market with fashion.
IT tanked badly outside the metros.
Then years later portable electronics came out and the messenger bag became the de facto staple for everyone everywhere
I don't carry a bag all the time, but I'm always jealous that women can stuff just about anything they need in a magic Bag of Holding (Dungeons & Dragons reference), and men get stuck trying to shove everything in a pocket
@ThanosReXXX
Oh geez, my head is starting to hurt after about 1:30 of that Zelda video. And that's not even with the goggles on. From someone who can play VirtualBoy and 3DS w/ full 3DS for hours on end without headaches!
Some of that is definitely cool. I still think if ANY company can make VR mainstream it's Nintendo. But I'm still not convinced that will happen in my lifetime. And if Sony struggles to even reach the "graphics, graphics, graphics" crowd, I'll keep my hopes tamed.
Your videos show the exact reason it fails to take on (beyond the imperfect camera leading to motion sickness and headaches). Look at the guy in the corner. I mean just look at him. How are you going to market THAT outside HardForum? People didn't buy into the heavy shutter glasses for 3D TV. They were cheaper, lighter, more comfortable, and looked more "normal". There's just no way to make that getup look consumer friendly. That's always been one of the 3 core problems of getting VR on the market in a real way. It looks terrible, awkward, and there's no way to not seem like a reclusive angry teen with cyberphilia when kitted out like that.
It can make inroads with gamers who don't care about comfort, don't care what they look like they just want the most immersive experience possible. It will be a market there, probably for the graphics obsessed consoles. But to take it truly mass market, what Nintendo would be aiming for, something HAS to change about the form factor. At best making it glasses, which would reduce the immersion. Maybe they can come up with something better.
I think there's another problem that gets less attention. I don't hear about it as much, Miyamoto has talked about it in regard to the Virtual Boy (and I've experienced it myself.) I like to call it "ViewMaster Syndrome" There's this weird...really weird almost out of body isolation with VR, not just VR, but stereoscopy like the ViewMaster too. Even as a kid, much as I loved the VMs it was kind of unpleasant too. There's this sort of "insta-depression" that kicks in when you look at it like you're isolated from the world in an uncomfortable way. Audio doesn't do it. Noise cancelling cans, noise blocking IEMS...no issues. But put those goggles up and it feels very strange.
Probaby, like the headaches, doesn't affect everyone (I never had a headache problem for example) but between the "it works for some people makes others sick, in pain, or depressed" the appearance of it, the discomfort and heft. No matter how cool, VR will simply never go mainstream until somebody thinks of some way to resolve that.
Now, would I buy the next Nintendo VR kit? Of course, I bought the first one, after all! But I'm one of those people to keep hitting myself in the head with the frying pan just to make sure it still hurts
@kingc8 "a gyroscope and accelerometers"
Thanks. Haven't been keeping up w/ the tech lingo in smart phones as much as I should.
@NEStalgia Which Zelda video? The NES one? I don't think it is that bad and I also don't see the problems with VR. I've tried the Oculus Rift twice on two separate occasions, each session around 15 minutes or so, and never had any nausea or headaches.
And I have no idea whatsoever where you're going with the Viewmaster story. I simply LOVED that, and never had any of these scary or weird experiences with it.
To me, it was the ultimate version of the DIY diorama in a shoe box and it was great.
As for the looks of the device: the one in the article is obviously a schematic, so that's no indication. The mock-up I posted in comment #102 looks just fine to me, except for the fact that it needs an extra head strap, to prevent it from sliding forward or becoming top heavy.
Other than that, it looks practically the same as all VR Headsets, so they're all big and obviously, the whole point of VR is to be submerged in another world, so of course you're going to be closed off from the real world. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't do it for extended periods. For a quick game session, it's extremely immersive and engaging and a lot of fun, in my experience.
I don't know if you have ever seen the video of the guy that let's his girlfriend play "The Brookhaven Experiment", a zombie shooter, but it's hilarious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6urJejluX44
(be sure to lower the speaker volume)
And I also love how VR, even with relatively simple graphics, can fool the human brain and it's sense of balance. Sitting in a chair still thinking you're going down a mountain on a rollercoaster and seeing all these people tumbling out of their chairs...
@NEStalgia P.S.
And what about the GameCube VR titles (Metroid Prime, Wind Waker), didn't you like that either?
Bags are great. I've got a big one, and it goes with me everywhere. It's also full of crud in the bottom, just like a real handbag!
@TreasureFan
Do you ever wonder WHY Nintendo never really tried hard with it, though? Could there be a reason? In the end of the day, they are the ones who killed it.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah the NES Zelda....there's serious head stress watching that one (not the others.)
Oh I loved ViewMaster in many ways. But it did have a very odd sensation of detachment. It's hard to describe, and like I said, VR seems to affect different people differently. I'm sure I'm not the only one though.
"Other than that, it looks practically the same as all VR Headsets, so they're all big"
Right, but that's my point as to one of it's big problems for mass market adoption. The tech depends on big, clunky, hideous nerd headsets. And the public is not likely to embrace that in terribly large numbers. I'm not saying it won't find a market, but I'm talking mass market penetration.
"Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't do it for extended periods. For a quick game session, it's extremely immersive and engaging and a lot of fun, in my experience."
I think that's the other issue, it's not really mass market ready until it's ready for extended sessions, playing through BotW hours at a time, watching a movie in full VR for 2 hours, etc. As long as it's for quick sessions, it's more of a toy or novelty than a staple piece of entertainment equipment. And a novelty has got to be much cheaper than current VR. Heck, headphones get uncomfortable after long enough let alone goggles.
Nintendo's talked about the need for it to be "social" before they do it. They're right. You can play games with other people in the room. But strapping yourself in a helmet and headphones and moving your head around like Stevie Wonder playing Celebrate is never going to be something you do with others (unless them pointing and laughing at you is part of the joke like that video, or you're a complete antisocial jerk) And having 3 headsets and everyone in the room playing their VR though most would be ignorant of the oddness while they're in the goggles, would be like the worst dystonia sci-fi with a bunch of addicts, their heads flopping around, plugged in, feeding energy right into their neocortex.
(And yeah the MP and WW ones look cool)
To be clear, I'm not anti-VR at all. It's cool. I got hooked on the dream with the Virtuality 1000 and Dactyl Nightmare. But I'm still in the dream "someday, this will actually be practical" stage. What I'm seeing now, I just don't see the mainstreaming of it. That form factor is still a massive problem, and the problem is, it's essential for it to work, and undesirable to the public. I've seen VR be the next big thing for enough decades. The hard tech is certainly getting there. But the user aspect is in a galaxy far, far away.
@westman98 It can also mean "we are going to create successor to the 3DS later". Otherwise, why say "right now"?. Again, one device satisfies some of the customers doesn't mean it satisfies all current customers, not even large part of them.
Btw, for VR, performance is really important. It's not anything about whether it looks good or not, it's all about whether you will easily get headache or not. As it's very unlikely that current Switch has enough power for VR (even Xbox One and PS4 are not optimal, not to say Switch without the dock), adding VR feature only means most players will easily get headache.
@iGen
That has got to be the single weirdest, most OT post I've ever seen on a video game website. Bravo!
@mullen Yeah, I think Kimishima addressed that in a round about way. Though @ThanosReXXX isn't entirely wrong to assume it could happen. He pointed out GearVR from Samsung, and, graphically, the phones it's meant for Note 5, S6 and above) aren't even as strong as Switch (and are running a higher res display), so it's certainly possible to pull it off in a limited way. But I'd expect more tech demos and "explore the mushroom kingdom" activities more than "Play BotW now in VR!" type experiences if they do it in Switch's liftime.
@Tarvaax Or the developers find that their great ideas / series best fit a portable gaming system that Switch doesn't work (means that could take with the player all the time without a bag), and thus try to explore the options on mobile phones or PSV instead? Many games are not meaningful on large screen, and more meaningful to be able to play anywhere, anytime. Developers more care about where they can get money, less care about whether Nintendo can win. It doesn't matter whether Nintendo has one or two consoles, it only matters whether Nintendo has the one that fits.
@iGen The most probable reason why is because it the name "Wii" was in the title and coming off from the high selling horse known as the Nintendo Wii, Nintendo just thought "Hey! It's like the Wii, but with a screen! Watch it'll sell like hotcakes." And then it didn't, sadly. To be fair it wasn't just Nintendo's ignorance, but also a change in landscape within gaming, specifically for the casual audience, which the Wii U was solely aimed at.
@TreasureFan
The Wii U was not solely aimed at casuals. It was mostly intended for getting back in touch with the core gamers, but that purpose turned out to be a massive flop.
@iGen
It doesn't surprise me I have to spell this out. Murder, is one of the core taboos of society. You can't say you go against the grain on everything if you're not willing to murder a person.
"It's my job to wreak everybody's day on this stupid website. Hope you're enjoying the fruits of my labor. I'm pretty sure you are"
*Wreck.
If that's your job, your employer should really consider hiring someone else. Can't say I'm really satisfied, nearly everyone else whom I've had a reasonable length argument with has had some solid ground to stand on. I've even been wrong some of the time. But I'm not in this instance.
"It is clear to me that the only thing that matters to you is being right, and proving that men wear purses."
It's already been proven, thanks to Anti-matter.
Oh, look, pics. It seems you're only focusing on aesthetics, a purse is a compartmentalised small bag to be worn on the shoulder or carried by hand. It is used to store small items that are used outside the home, such as keys, wallet, phone, food etc. Seems all those bags fit that description. Seriously, did you read the wikipedia page? I'm guessing not. The first known purse belonged to a MAN.
"Blame it on shaneo. He's the one that's obsessed with getting me to admit that I'm wrong and that many men wear purses."
No, I'm arguing men wear purses, the quantity is irrelevant. You've presented an absolute, which has been proven wrong in several ways beyond stamping my foot and screaming I'm right and saying that the opposing argument fails.
@iGen
"OK I'm done. I have more things in my life to do than argue with a politically correct person"
I think you mean actually correct.
"who thinks they know everything"
Already admitted in a previous post that I'm not always right.
"that it's alright to actually have an intensely heated debate with somebody on a video gaming site about women's apparel hosted on an old comment thread."
I'm feeling more hilarity than heat, but if it were an issue at this point, a mod will have stepped in. The thread is a day old, I wouldn't call this necroposting.
Also, bags are more accessories than apparel.
"Congratulations, you possess more stamina than I do."
Thank you.
"Had you re-read my post, you would have seen that I corrected that mistake long ago."
Not if I hadn't refreshed the page after you made the edit I wouldn't have. Still; a rose by any other name. Another name for a Man bag is a "Man purse," or "Murse." I don't see any difference in those pictures beyond aesthetics, which doesn't affect the function or use of the bags. A purse is a purse, whether it's labelled for a man or a woman.
"You are insane. Your conclusions and final statements are insane. Why are you proud of yourself for displaying that you are a smart aleck?"
Well I haven't been certified insane, but I have my suspicions, not that it stop me from having a point: which is that you follow the directions of society despite your insistence to the contrary. You have different tastes, sure, just like everyone else, but when it comes to the fundamentals, you obey.
"You have too much time on your hands."
Better than not enough.
"We're done here."
GG
@iGen
I thought you were done. You could try and put a little effort into your counter-argument, "men still don't carry purses" has already been torn to shreds by what I've already posted. We've even got someone admitting to the contrary.
@iGen
For someone who is done, you keep coming back for seconds. And thirds. Fourths too.
Even if he is one person, you're still going for the absolute that no man carries a purse, when one person is all it takes to prove that
statementopinion wrong. A minority is more than none.If you even bothered to read the wikipedia page I linked you would have read that the purse is a unisex thing. You would also have read that a man bag is a purse. If there is a market for man bags then there are men out there carrying purses about because a man bag is a purse. It's logic backed up with evidence. You've even failed to identify the "differences" between a man-bag and a purse. You conveniently don't rebut anything that contradicts your argument. You can't even rebut why another name for a man bag is "man purse" (I think I've mentioned that twice already).
"Basing how millions of people go about their lives off of one person is an incredibly stupid argument and conclusion."
I agree, so why are you saying that no man carries a purse just because you don't carry one? How does carrying a purse automatically prevent a person from being a man? It might be an opinion, but opinions can be wrong. I don't see me stating anywhere how many men I think carry a purse, all I'm saying is that there are men out there who do. Acknowledging that your statement is pathetic does nothing to discredit the statements I've been making.
"Also, judging by how many times you're bringing up Anti-Matter in this debate, it shows me that you have little proof that any man carries a purse besides him."
Here you go a Google search of men with purses. It's more evidence than you are providing that no man carries a purse (like a multi-million dollar industry needs proof of existence). How are they not men?
@shaneoh
It isn't surprising that I have to very carefully piece this all together for you.
I was never going for the absolute that no person with the male gene carries around women's purses while strolling down the street. I was speaking about the generalization that men don't carry purses. Not once did I mention that "all men" don't carry purses, and I don't draw that conclusion just because I don't wear one. I draw it because I have never once seen a man wear a purse, with the fact remaining that purses are feminine, not unisex. However, man-bags or ""murses"" are considered the slightly more masculine version and therefore more socially acceptable of a greater amount to the general straight male public, which is who I was talking about from the beginning.
You know that anybody can edit Wikipedia and insert their own opinions into it, right? It isn't a fully reliable source for everything you look up. There is a reason why school teachers don't recommend using Wikipedia for research papers.
By the way, in that Google search query you linked, at least 30% of the men shown I can guarantee are gay or transgender.
This was a battle about the generalized public views, which was my original point, not the definition of a purse.
Also, I live in the United States, a country in which man bags are very rarely seen, and you live in Australia, a country where it is (apparently) far more common to see somebody walking around with a ""murse"". Another piece to note is that we both belong to completely different generations. I'm 90% sure you are part of Generation Y, which is comprised of SJW, politically correct, ultra-sensitive, and childlike people. It's been documented many, many, many times. I belong to Generation Z, which is a generation heavily touted as being the most conservative generation since the Silents. We view many more things as black and white as opposed to many other people who see them as highly varied. We are a lot more old-school and hold much more older, traditional values. This has also been documented.
There is no more information to provide. Any more questions, and all there will be is a "No matter what you say, men will, and still do not carry women's purses.".
This has always been a war of opinion, and what you have provided, is not really substantial. You may see people walking around with purses, I have never seen anybody do such a thing. And believe me, I see a lot.
You want your proof so bad? Here. Here's your proof. Indulge.
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=do+men+wear+purses&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Read this over and tell me how many times you see articles and pages documenting "why men should wear murses/man-bags/man-purses". Count how many times it doesn't include that detail in the description or the headline, which in that case, they are then talking about men carrying a women's purse.
There are very few examples by several minorities. I have repeatedly said that men do not wear purses, but they do however wear "MAN-BAGS". All the articles listed "TALK ABOUT MAN-BAGS.". FEW of them, however, discuss regular purses (FOR GIRLS) and men IN THE SAME SENTENCE.
I'M THINKING THAT YOU LOSE.
@iGen
"Men do not carry purses"
Yep it's a generalisation, but see, the thing is, generalisations are a statement that applies to a specific group, in this case specifically those who identify as male. If you had said a lot of men, we wouldn't be having this discussion
"more socially acceptable of a greater amount to the general straight male public, which is who I was talking about from the beginning."
So when you talk about men as a group you're only talking about straight men?
"However, man-bags or ""murses"" are considered the slightly more masculine version"
Yes, but what makes them more masculine? What makes them soooo different to a purse that they are a different type of object all together. This is a point which you repeatedly FAIL (as you seem to be so fond of the word) to address.
"You know that anybody can edit Wikipedia and insert their own opinions into it, right? It isn't a fully reliable source for everything you look up. There is a reason why school teachers don't recommend using Wikipedia for research papers."
Funny, I predicted this approximate response would happen at some point. It's true, but irrelevant.
"By the way, in that Google search query you linked, at least 30% of the men shown I can guarantee are gay or transgender."
And how are you able to guarantee that I wonder? Did you interview each of the models? Prove it. But if 30% of those men ARE gay or trans, that means 65% (allowing 5% for other) are straight, which still means that your generalisation isn't true, straight men are the main consumers. That means it is less socially acceptable for a gay man to have a purse/manbag. It's a multi-million dollar industry, there must be a lot of straight men buying these.
"This was a battle about the generalized public views, which was my original point, not the definition of a purse."
This wasn't about public views, otherwise you could have phrased it as; "It is considered unmanly to carry a purse," or some other similar way. It's not about public view, it's about your opinion.
"which is comprised of SJW, politically correct, ultra-sensitive, and childlike people"
Well I'm childish on occasion, but certainly not childlike, not with my physique. SJW and PC definitely doesn't apply to me, and I wouldn't say I was ultra sensitive, not with the blokes I work with. Need a thick skin for that. I am a gen Y, but so what? These traits aren't exclusive to a single generation. Or are you generalising again? But what does being born in a specific period in time have to do with the issue at hand?
"This has always been a war of opinion, and what you have provided, is not really substantial. You may see people walking around with purses, I have never seen anybody do such a thing. And believe me, I see a lot."
It's cute that you think we're at war. Although it seems to have escalated from being a battle from a couple of paragraphs before this. It's also funny that you say you've seen a lot, but haven't seen a man with a purse.
"Count how many times it doesn't include that detail in the description or the headline, which in that case, they are then talking about men carrying a women's purse.
There are none. I have repeatedly said that men do not wear purses, but they do however wear "MAN-BAGS". All the articles listed "TALK ABOUT MAN-BAGS.". NONE of them, however, discuss regular purses. and men IN THE SAME SENTENCE."
There are two (not counting the buzzfeed article, because I'm fair). The funny thing is, both articles were using pictures similar to the ones that you posted before, and have since taken down. Perhaps the two are more similar than you care to admit?
"YOU LOSE."
If it helps you sleep at night you can believe that (unfortunately it doesn't make it so).
@NEStalgia Yeah, you see: that's the point. I don't agree with you at all that there's a sense of detachment in using the Viewmaster, to me it's just stereoscopic fun, nothing more, and back when I was a kid, it was just as much a wonder as 3D is nowadays.
Unless you mean detachment as in you needing to be completely shut off from the real world to experience it, much like VR, but even then, that's not detachment to me but immersion.
I can get the same feeling from a book, if the story is really good, it completely sucks me in, keeps my eyes fixed on the pages, and making me forget everything and everyone around me.
I also don't think that the headsets will be THAT much smaller in the future. Maybe slimmer, but not smaller in width/height. It needs a decent size screen to make the experience work, unless they come up with some kind of workaround, but that would probably mean some kind of magnifying lenses, bringing up other problems in relation to prolonged use...
Speaking of that: my idea of the duration of play sessions could well stretch to 2 hours, I was more thinking along the lines of it not being good to wear them all night. Me and my friends have been known to keep gaming all night, until 4 or even 5 am, and for that, VR is still not suitable, unless you take regular breaks of about 10 to 15 minutes.
And I don't have a problem wearing audio head sets either. I work in sales, so although I don't use them anymore now, I used to wear a head set with a microphone attached for nearly the entire day, 5 days a week.
As for the multiplayer image you painted: how about this? ?They could easily make it work by displaying avatars in game, so that people playing together, could still "see" each other, making it even more immersive, because you would then both be in the game. Sounds like a plan to me.
And the tech is there, the head set may need some aesthetic and ergonomic changes, but it's here to stay. It is NOTHING like previous VR outings, those were really bad and just not commercially valid. Current solutions are. Gear VR is selling like hot cakes and so is the Oculus Rift. Don't know the numbers on PSVR, but reception has been pretty favorable in general, so I don't think that we are galaxies away at all.
All I'm seeing is more and more parties getting involved and that means that they want to get the tech well cemented into society and into relevant industries, so it's here to stay and it's only going to get better as time passes.
@NEStalgia P.S. You could also read @samuelvictor's posts. He is also quite enthusiastic about the current state of VR, even though he is realistic enough to also recognize its short-comings.
@ThanosReXXX Well, you're way more optimistic about the state of VR in the public mindshare than I am. But when it comes to VR there's always been two camps. The True Believers and Defenders of the Sacred Realm. And everyone else The people who really love VR are always convinced it's the up and coming thing, this time it's really going to happen! The public yawns and moves on.
ViewMaster: To be fair, VM was even worse than VR/VB with this, because the images don't move. The best way I could describe it, beyond being kind of a depressing feeling, is that it's sort of a "rejection of senses" like you're in the Matrix. Like your mind knows what you're seeing isn't reality and is actively rejecting your senses. It's really hard to describe, and I'm doing a poor job of it. But the idea is, there's still a lot of "per-individual" issues that crop up with VR. It's not the same as a book, you're always aware in your senses of your spatial relationship to everything around you. It's specific to headsets.
Duration: For mass market 2 hours would be acceptable. Ironically it would be the core gamers that will struggle most with that.
Audio: It depends on the clamping force of the headset. Communications headsets are intended for all day wear, though some people are still very sensitive to them. I was thinking heaphones really, and despite the pillowy cushions, the clamping force adds up (or the in ear discomfort with IEMs over time.) That all goes into the mass market issue though. Regular 2D consoles is something for everyone. VR, since it involves wearable components is more limiting as to who will enjoy it.
VR gear is selling as a gadget for gadget freaks, and has limited uses. Occulus is selling to the high tier of PC enthusiasts. Neither is genuinely mass market yet. VR Gear is a fun cheap way for people to give it a dry (almost bought one myself last year, and then realized "what am I going to DO with this thing? Another item collecting dust" and opted against it. It's like a Wii Fit board
Ultimately, every company was getting in on 3D TV too. The market rejected it because, mostly, the glasses. Nintendo's the only one that did it in a real usable way with 3DS. The market rejected that, overwhelmingly ignoring the 3D and buying the console just for the content. And the barriers to entry in terms of price and comfort for 3D were less than with VR.
VR is fated to always have the conundrum that to work it needs bulky goggles, and to adopt it in the mass market, it can't have bulky goggles. Every single attempt to push that form factor for any purpose has failed consistently. Regardless of what VR and Occulus sells within the gadget niche the only factor that matters if if they can propel it to expand past that niche into the mainstream (the Blue Ocean) instead of plateauing. If sales plateau, it remains a niche category.
I do still think Nintendo is the only company that can really push it mass market successfully. Maybe Apple as well. Google Glass ended dismally, very different product for sure, but "wearable computing" is for now, back burner-ed by risk averse companies again. So I see Apple out of that race for a good while, leaving it to Nintendo. And they're going to be too afraid any attempt will look too much like a Virtual Boy. Something they REALLY don't want to do after the WiiU.
I still think we're galaxies away from the mass market truly adopting it.
My take on how it will go, if Nintendo does VR at all, is it will be an addon accessory for the Switch. There will be a mini-game collection for it, mostly involving wandering around, maybe looking for items. There might be one or two other games. And that will be the extent of their Switch VR R&D. Donkey Kongo Bongos for the Switch. IF they go bigger into it, it will be on the Switch successor, depending on how the early experiment pans out. That's 5+ years away. Too soon to predict what innovations will or won't be made by then. But I'd be hesitant to say it will be dominant then either. Sony will continue pushing PSVR as an accessory, secondary to their main games in that time as well.
Every company wants to be there "just in case" VR explodes. But no company so far is truly committing to it as though they really BELIEVE it will be the next big thing either. They promote it, they'd like it to be, but their hard resources just aren't going there.
Again, I'm not at all against VR, and I'll certainly buy any VR kit that's reasonably priced, and doesn't have a center head strap like a mining lamp (I HATE the ones with the center head strap.) But I say that knowing I'm part of the niche, not the mass market.
@NEStalgia Maybe for frame of reference: I'm a sales & marketing guy, and that is also how I view it, so a lot of what I think or say is influenced by that. Been in this business for over 20 years and my gut is telling me that this time, VR is here to stay in some kind of capacity. Maybe not mass market, but possibly in gradually improving iterations. So I'm not commenting as a VR enthusiast, but as a marketing professional looking at the options.
And again: those 80's VR sets were literally leagues away in quality and content, so we can't take that as an example of how the current generation of VR will fare.
Also, the 3D TV glasses example is not entirely on point: the industry once again decided to create disparity with one side choosing active and the other passive 3D, much like VHS vs Betamax, HD DVD vs Blu-ray and so on...
In VR, the only difference is an integrated screen or having to insert your own, in the guise of a smart phone. Other than that, the tech is rather unified already, making it a stronger concept and proposition already. In large part, price is the only thing bogging down its entry into mass market areas, but then again: every new tech is expensive. I still remember the prices of the first VHS top loaders, which were also top heavy as well...
And then, within a couple of years after market penetration, devices get smaller, cheaper and also better, and the same will happen with VR goggles.
And of course no company is pushing it as its main thing, well except for the likes of the Oculus Rift that is, because it simply ISN'T their main thing. Their main thing is game consoles or smart phones/tablets, so why should they put all their energy into VR and/or AR? That would make no (business) sense at all...
And you also won't hear me say that it's going to be dominant. But it is here to stay nonetheless, I'm quite convinced of that.
As for the headphones, I already kind of figured you meant the "dr. Dre" ear-covering muffs, but I wasn't completely sure, hence my comment.
P.S.
I really think you do need to mull that whole Viewmaster thing over for a bit (or maybe even a lot) longer, because I'm not following you there AT ALL. And you should set it in its own time frame, not compare it to full, moving 3D. Back in the day, the wow factor of stereoscopic picture viewing really was just as genuine as 3D is now.
The way it comes across now, is like it's some depressing experience, looking at a dystopian world through the lenses of the device.
@ThanosReXXX Because the sales & marketing guys are never wrong at all (taking a page from jrejr's book:)
I disagree about the market segmentation of 3D glasses. The public didn't care enough about it to even find out about the segmentation. And it's not like PSVR, Nintendo VR and Occulus would be compatible with each other. At a hardware level sure it's the same, but not from the consumer perspective.
The big problem VR faces, is the one I keep mentioning. It has always faced that problem. The form factor. The user interface. It's bad, because it needs to be to function, and that is a big, big problem. The public is not going to easily get on board with that. It's going to need a gimmick to hook them. Holding a device, looking at a screen the public can be shown and embrace easily. Strapping goggles on, there is simply no way to make it look good. It's fine if the experience is cool, but getting people to walk into Best Buy, look in the VR corner, watch uber-nerds spinning in circles with cyborg equipment strapped to them. I don't think the folks shopping for a new living room entertainment experience are going to set FOOT in that corner of the store. The public has only barely begun to embrace video games as something acceptable for "normal" people to do...and even that not close to fully yet. That's 30-some years and counting without being widely adopted, just a very slowly but steadily growing niche. And that's something that is otherwise not different from watching TV. No cyborg gear. No spinning around like a bad acid trip under the Nikon banners in Best Buy.
All that said we're slightly talking at cross purposes. Of course it's "here to stay" within its niche. That wasn't really the debate. I'm really talking about mass market adoption, in part because we're talking Nintendo, and Nintendo has made clear many times they're only interested when and if VR can be made mass market, and have noted the headaches, dizziness, isolation, and the like as limiting factors preventing mass market that they have to solve first. If Nintendo enters, it's because they're trying to take it mass market, Wii style. And I still think we're a long, long, long way from that. Sony sells it as an accessory for the niche of their customers that want one. Nintendo is looking from a perspective of "making it the system", and from a Switch perspective, I still think anything, if at all, would be like the Super Scope type accessory. A gadget almost as its own product, and a game or 3. Not the "VR" people are expecting from them.
ViewMaster: I think you're obsessing over the ViewMaster thing a bit much This isn't ViewMasterLife.com, I was just using a sensory problem with goggle-based stereoscopy that I'm familiar with as an example for the different kinds of per-user problems that VR faces an uphill battle against.
@shaneoh
It's funny that you were lazy and didn't refresh the page to see the updated version in which I said that there are "very few" as opposed to "none".
Fine. Many straight men don't wear purses. Happy? I don't consider gay or transgender males to be men. Which is what I was getting at the entire time.
I can call it whatever I want. The fact remains that it's been going on for far too long, and this debate is about an accessory for girls. Man bags are very different by design and color if you compare them to a feminine purse. I don't know how you see otherwise.
This is a really dumb argument that I'm not willing to continue.
@iGen
Hey, I started writing my post before you updated it, not my problem. But it shows you were willing to throw something out there without examining it. You were then dismissive of them when you found noticed them, when they are perfectly valid sources.
"Many straight men don't wear purses. Happy?"
Very.
"I don't consider gay or transgender males to be men."
I certainly consider gay men to be men, don't understand the attraction, but I don't have to participate. Transgender, well I feel they are in a fragile enough state as it is without lumping what I think on top.
"I can call it whatever I want."
Doesn't mean it's right
"Man bags are very different by design and color if you compare them to a feminine purse.
And there are many different designs of "feminine purses," but as I said, you're arguing aesthetics, the function is still the same, ergo it's the same. A key for a car and one for a door lock are different in function, but you're arguing that two keys cut for the same lock with different shaped heads are not similar in use.
"This is a really dumb argument that I'm not willing to continue."
Takes two to tango, as the saying goes, but you've already quit once.
@NEStalgia No, I'm not really obsessing over the Viewmaster bit. You yourself said that you didn't/couldn't accurately explain what you meant with your description of it, and I simply disagreed with the part that you DID explain, nothing more, nothing less.
As for the whole VR debate, I also think were talking slightly passed each other, but that is one of the dangers of having to interpret someone else's text.
The thing is, that as I understood it (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), you brought up older iterations of VR in previous comments to give evidence of its inability to penetrate the mass market, and what I did was respond to that with information that shows that modern day VR is completely different, and only NOW in your latest comment is it clear to me that you were only (or specifically) talking about Nintendo VR, and I was talking about VR in general, and from there, things went kind of pear-shaped...
So yeah, we agree on Nintendo's reasons and motivations concerning VR, but it would be stupid not to, since they've already outlined their intentions very clearly.
But I'm pretty sure they'll make it work in some way or other, if the market for VR is here to stay and will grow, and looking at the other solutions, I absolutely think that it will grow.
Of course something needs to be done about the form factor, so I'm not debating that either, which you seem to think, but on the other hand there are also certain limitations, not technical ones, but aesthetic and ergonomic ones, which is why I already said that they will at the most become somewhat slimmer, and maybe they can do something about the weight and the comfort of wearing them, but that's about it.
I won't dive into it any further, because you weren't talking about VR in general, but I do stand by these statements. And no offense, but you sort of brushing aside my knowledge and experience in marketing is kind of a no-go. Unless you're a colleague, then you could at least talk from experience.
The Wii U is a bad example and I already mentioned that in one of my previous comments to you as a case of marketing horror, so that can't be dragged back in as evidence.
As it stands, I will go by my own experience and knowledge, and I'm pretty sure that, although maybe not all, most of my points will still stand in a couple of years. Other than that, maybe we should bring this one to a close and agree to disagree on the points we can't meet in the middle on, otherwise it's just going to drag on needlessly with wall of text after wall of text, something we both appear to be quite good at... (must be an age thing, )
But having said all that: thanks for an interesting discussion, something that is unfortunately all too often quite difficult to find online, so good on you.
P.S.
And please don't (try and) take a page out of @rjejr's book: there's only one of him and he can't be topped or improved upon...
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, I'm generally talking about Nintendo's VR and will they, won't they approach to it (that was really the original thread after all ), but also talking in terms of VR as a mainstream mass market product (because that's the context in which Nintendo has been approaching it.)
So yeah I think you've been defending VR's position as a niche item for now, which I'm not disputing at all. I'm talking about it being ready to go mainstream mass market. Once VR is as ubiquitous as TVs, tablets, phones, and game consoles, that's the direction I'm talking about. At least consoles.
So back to Nintendo, I'm still not convinced they intend to go ahead with it this gen (if they do, it'll be like I said, a Super Scope type product), not unless VR blows up mainstream due to some other product in the next 5 years, they want their investors to know that they're ready to jump out of the gate with VR on a moment's noticed (if they get boxed into such a corner.)
VR as a broader category, I've only been watching its mainstream potential. And I'm not seeing it on the cusp of that or anywhere close. It exists, yes, it'll grow, yes, but it's definitely not close to going mainstream, at least in the next 5 year period, probably longer.
When it DOES go mainstream, what I see happening is a company like Nintendo pulling a Wii-like phenomenon of a fad that everybody just has to buy and try...but then will fall away from it after the fad. It's still a difficult sell as a "daily part of life" type of device. Convenience is always the driver behind most tech, and VR isn't providing convenience greater than alternative entertainment.
I'm not arguing your points, just trying to clarify the perspective I'm looking at it. Aside from the Nintendo niche, I'm done chasing after niche tech. Been there done that too long Of course there's a business for VR, but genuine mainstream, we're not there.
Form factor: I'm not saying the form factor CAN change. But that its form factor remains a permanent problem for mass market penetration. Not until some kind of gimmick can make it faddish and trendy to do.
And ,no I'm not trying to brush aside your marketing knowledge, but most of what we're talking about is the theoretical and consumer perception, nothing numbers based. And consumer entertainment is a fickle beast..moreso than general tech
Yeah, sadly internet communication as been twitterfied to a few words and quick statements, few people seem to be interested in really discussing topics. Agree or disagree, it's always enjoyable to find deeper discussions. Not sure if you missed introductions and such, but I've been lurking for years and years, and various individuals are the ones that prodded me to finally sign up and post. rjejr being a major one I tend to follow often, and also your arguments...err..discussions with him A few other people too, but you're all the "core" group I've had interest in conversing with for years!
And yep, rjejr is certainly one of a kind...though I've long identified with his posts most of all, even when I disagree with him. I agree with you or him probably 50/50 though...so the text walls shall get interesting around here
@ThanosReXXX "there's only one of him and he can't be topped or improved upon..."
Well I can probably be topped and improved upon, I think NES is doing a good job of that and someday I'll leave this website knowing he's here to take my place, but the world is greatful there is only 1 of me. Well maybe there's 2 of me.
@rjejr There you go again underrating yourself... No idea why you would do that. Overrating isn't good either, but if there's anything to believe in or be positive about, especially to have just that additional bit more pleasure in life, then it would be oneself...
I personally hope we're going to see your comments here for quite some time to come, and it shouldn't be related to how well or how bad a console or handheld or whatever the hell kind of device it is, is going to perform.
I for one will certainly miss a person that at least has quite a bit more substance than the average gamer on here. Could be an age thing, I don't know, but it will be a sad day far as I am concerned. And since it's a Saturday, I'll drink to that...
@NEStalgia And that very difference in points of view is exactly the reason why I suggested we better close this one under the chapter "agree to disagree", because I will stand by what I said and no amount of text-wall exchanging is going to make me think otherwise...
And yes, I've seen your introduction. And it may be a bit late, but welcome to the active part of Nintendo Life...
And welcome to the small group that entertain actual discussions without having to insult or ridicule each other...
@ThanosReXXX Fair enough. And you can certainly shove it in my face 5+ years from now if I'm wrong But I'll put in my official final opinion that it's not going mass-market mainstream in that time (or longer if nothing new appears during that time that I think will change the equation) and that IF Nintendo does it for Switch, it will be a Super Scope like accessory with some tech demo games and nothing more.
I'd love to be wrong, but for posterity, I'm just putting that there We'll see by the time PSwitch comes out if I'm wrong (that will be my pun going foward, like Wii became WiiU, Switch can become PSwitch

BTW, one thing I haven't thought about in ages with headsets like that is the implications on eye health. I'd love to get the Association of Opthomologists take on staring at a screen an inch or two away from the eye for hours on end every day.... And my guess is it would be a non-starter for under age 20 (supposedly the eye mostly stops forming around then and can't be as damaged.) That wasn't part of my prior posts in this conversation actually, I just remembered that issue while typing this reply. Heck there was hysteria around 3DS culminating in 2D only as a "feature" for 2DS for making uneasy parents comfortable. There will be some seriously negative press on that. And if it's recommended as not for kids, that will take a dent out of the market there too.
We don't need to discuss that specifically, but I wanted to include that since I remembered it. It will be a hurdle for that industry. Maybe a sledge hammer depending on who wants to wield it and what they want out of it.
At a minimum we know Nintendo's iteration will remind us every 20 seconds to take breaks
Anyway, yeah, it's nice that even a small group exists that entertains actual discussions here. Technically NL is far from the best site for news and what the newest happenings are, and is filled with a few too many clickbait editorials, but the community here is, despite its annoying portions of it, leagues better than the trash on pretty much every other Nintendo site that makes Twitter read like Dickens....
@ThanosReXXX "I'll drink to that..."
Well, if you want to see more of me you can always visit PushSquare.
I think I just have less to say now that we know than before when we didn't. I think it will pick back up around E3 and I actually want to get a Switch but I haven't much to say about 1 2 Switch, ARMS, Snipperclips or even really Zelda. We have MK8 and played enough Spaltoon. So that doesn't leave much for me to talk about. Despite tom's diatribe to the contrary I still feel like it's a soft launch and E3 will get things rolling towards the holdiay. SWitch doesn' treally have a single 3DS-type game yet. OK Octopath, but that's it. Pokemon, Monster Hunter, even DQ11 has been quiet. DQ11 an XC2 get dated, then I'll be excited.
@NEStalgia PSwitch? I'm almost afraid to ask, but care to elaborate what that stands for?
And that eye problem/medical issue is exactly why I said that these headsets are only going to change so much, because indeed, bringing the screen closer to the eyes will pose it's own design problems, so I think that if they continue with the tech, the focus will be on lighter gear and more ergonomic form factor for ease of wearing and probably better lenses and hardware.
Or maybe they'll find ways to meld VR and AR together, who knows?
In any case, the future is going to be interesting enough for people like me that are into tech like this and want to see it evolve and grow, if only to see what other exciting solutions they can come up with.
And yeah, I know about those open sewers that call themselves game sites, it's almost as bad as some YouTube comment sections, but that is what we have to put up with sometimes in exchange for the freedom of the internet.
I'd be interested to know which other sites you would recommend, though. I used to frequent at least 5 or 6 game-related websites, but since the last couple of years, that has gone down to 3, because of the very same reasons that were just mentioned.
Finding a site with a good community is almost as hard as finding a unicorn these days...
@rjejr Me on Push Square: that'll be the day... Something with Hell and a lot of ice... I would have even less to say there, than you seem to be inclined to at the moment on NLife.
And I always want to be on my best behavior, but on a Sony related site that is going to be a real chore, or maybe even asking to much...
As for that misnomer, I will agree that it's a weak launch, or if you will disappointing one, but Tom is completely right, so no debate is possible there: it's not a soft launch. That's a well-established term, and it simply does not mean what some people seem to think it means.
I quote:
"A soft launch, also known as a soft opening, is a preview release of a product or service to a limited audience prior to the general public.
Soft-launching a product is sometimes used to gather data or feedback regarding its acceptance in the marketplace, prior to making it widely available during an official release or grand opening.
A company may also choose a soft launch to test the functionality of a product, allowing adjustments to be made before a wider release and marketing effort are implemented."
This is what it means, and NOT a bad launch or a launch with only a few titles. You can't just go and use words that don't fit, just because you think it sounds good or something. It actually makes people look dumb for using terms that they don't know the actual meaning of...
And these games will be dated eventually, so get excited, and stick around for a bit. You don't have to comment on every article: I certainly don't step into every smelly surprise anymore either, although I did get caught up in a few, these last couple of days, but I try to steer clear of the more useless ones, because the intelligence level over there is dropping just as hard as the number of comments is rising...
@Splatmaster they could also release a dock with components and call it Switch PRO.
@ThanosReXXX Haha, PSwitch... you know the big switch in Mario games as pictured? Well if we could go from the Wii to the WiiU by adding a semi-nonsensical letter that has phonetic meaning, why not just add a P to the front of Switch for the sequel? It makes it Nintendo self-referential and is certain not to confuse consumers at all! The Nintendo PSwitch! Then the third could be the Nintendo PU. They've got a knack for names.
Medical: Well I think "safe distance for long duration viewing" is somewhere around a foot and a half (a foot or less for us near-sighted folks ), I don't think ANY of the screen positions are within that range for long-term viewing. Short-term, sure, but if it ends up with a hard-cap on long-term viewing for safe use, that's a problematic situation. More specifically if they really recommend keeping it brief for kids and teens, that really cuts into the market. OF course lots will ignore said cap, but might come to resent the tech later on if their eyesight takes a hit. (You'll shoot your eye out!)
VR+AR..that would be pretty cool (and address close focusing issues.) And it would really just be neat in a lot of ways. I haven't heard of anyone working on that, but it would be neat!
Sewers: Yeah....no. I don't think I'd recommend any other sites There are plenty of forums for things not related to gaming that are wonderful. There are a few forums dedicated to individual games that are wonderful. Gaming, or platform oriented sites....this is the first and only readable one I've managed to stumble across, at least since the mid-90's. Sad, but the gaming community tends to be very....how shall I say it, civility disinclined?
@rjejr I don't think NL will let you leave. Their advertisers will come after you to secure the income generating content
@ThanosReXXX BTW, on your soft launch reply to @rjejr, I count myself among those that believes it's basically a soft launch, however, I do understand your position on the "formal" use of the term soft launch. However, as i read your own re-pasted text from Tom's article of precisely what a soft launch is, it actually reinforces my opinion that it is, if not in technical definition, they are striving to achieve the same effect. I know that's your field, but think about it:
""A soft launch, also known as a soft opening, is a preview release of a product or service to a limited audience prior to the general public."
This is the criterion that makes it fail to meet the technical definition. It's a public release. Sort of. But it's also with low numbers below demand, and more specifically released outside the primary purchasing season for the product (like releasing a snow blower in July.) meaning the audience is self limiting.
You'll say "but it's not a limited audience" and you're right, so it does fail to meet the technical definition. Fine, but Nintendo is certainly factoring, strategically, the limited reach of the early adopter window.
"Soft-launching a product is sometimes used to gather data or feedback regarding its acceptance in the marketplace, prior to making it widely available during an official release or grand opening.A company may also choose a soft launch to test the functionality of a product, allowing adjustments to be made before a wider release and marketing effort are implemented."
No web browser, no netflix, we can add it later. No USB 3, we can add it later, throwing 1-2-Switch out to test the waters for the Joycon reception, no external HDDs but we can add it later, etc. etc.
It's clear they're using the launch window to test feature demand, consumer reception, how the different markets they're targeting react, price point reaction, etc and intend to solidify the product direction and messaging prior to the holiday season which is more the real launch period for the category.
Heck they're even including the Splatoon 2 Testfire (a truly genuine soft launch) as part of it.
I realize you're in a position apt to get stuck on the "industry term" use, but I think what most people, at least myself, are trying to get at is it's very clear they're treating the launch from a similar perspective as a soft launch, utilizing it in a similar way, and taking advantage of the fact that the launch timing gives them much of the same effect due to seasonal demand without having to artificially limit the launch to a designated preview audience.
Perhaps a better way to put it would be "treating it similarly to a soft launch to achieve most of the same goals to the point that it effectively becomes a soft launch" But that's a mouthful for the twitter-inclined so everyone just says "it's a soft launch. "
@NEStalgia Well, PSwitch makes me think of P-Diddy, an artist I truly hate, and the only other thing I could think of was some attempt at trying to fit a "Wii-sounding" syllable to the Switch, to also make it a bit laughable.
As for the whole soft launch debate:
No, I'm not stuck on the industry term (also didn't re-paste it, by the way), I'm just a strong advocate of and believer in using words or phrases as they are supposed to be. Anything else is either laziness or language violation and I'm not about to reward people for using terms that don't mean what they think they mean. All of that incites me to go on rants about smacking people over the head again, and all that...
Grass is green and not blue, no matter if you're color-blind or not, you can't just go and change that at your own whim. That's shoe-horning.
And what I posted, was only an excerpt of the entire meaning, which does not just encompass the IT industry, but also all other media, so the term doesn't just mean what it means for software and hardware. It also counts for books, movies, cars and other consumer products.
So, if we want to be negative about it, we can designate the state of the line up by choosing from the words poor, meager, (unbelievably) bad, pathetic, disappointing, slow, ridiculous, lousy, worthless, DOA, worst ever, crappy, etc. etc. but it is not and it never will be a soft launch.
A soft launch is actually a positive thing, so to abuse that and make it a bad thing doesn't really bode well for the sustainability of human intelligence or the state of the intelligence of the gamer at large...
@ThanosReXXX I've never actually taken the "soft launch" discussion here to have been meant in a negative way. I've seen (and used) it mostly as a positive looking counterargument to the people screaming "bad, DOA, weak" etc, as it seems obvious that that state is being used to achieve similar analysis and adaptation/refocusing as a soft launch would provide via similar methods.
Most of the "soft launch" discussion here, as I've read it (and written it ) has been with the perspective of a positive strategic process for Nintendo, not a synonym for bad. The release timing affords them the luxury of a "simulated soft launch" or whatever term you prefer, to accomplish mostly the same thing.
I stand by that assessment, and it's positive value, specific terms aside, the goals appear the same. We can find a new word for "achieving the goals of a soft launch with similar methods as a soft launch through controlling what is released to the market and when without it being a soft launch"
@NEStalgia Imagine nails on a chalk board: that is what I hear and feel every time someone abuses a word or meaning, no matter how good their intentions are. At my age, I'm too set in my ways to get past that, so it's ingrained in my system and is a part of my morals and values.
The most positive thing I can say about it, but I can say that about most of your comments, is that you are at least mindful of your surroundings in the respect that you don't have a one-track mind or a short-sighted view on things, and your personal view on this topic is at least positive, but most of what I've read from others using the terminology makes it clear to me that they DON'T understand what it means and they actually do abuse it to force it onto something that it isn't, and making it a negative, because they use it as another way of saying "it's a launch with very few titles" so it's a "soft launch". (man, I even HATE having to type that)
Well, that brings me back to the nails on a chalkboard feeling again, so I'm going to drop the topic here altogether, because I don't think we're going to get that much further on it, so I don't know about you, but it seems to me like it's a waste of time.
This sounds like material for a 1-2-Switch mini-game! Maybe a crossover with Arms!
And thanks for the compliments! Always nice to hear the time spent posting is well received.
I'm going to guess we've read different posts on the topic. I'm about the last person in the world to be accused of optimism but most discussion I saw around the topic were those from people with views similar to mine, where the referencing of a "soft launch" (ish, like thing ), were a long view of how Nintendo is approaching the launch window into Holiday and 2018 as a counterargument to the "weak launch" rants. I didn't notice many saying "soft launch" to mean the launch is bad. Maybe that group chimed in after the period I was commenting though. I might have missed it. If they did they were probably using the term some of us were using earlier in the discussion and started throwing it around with their new and improved definition opposite how we initially intended it. I wouldn't be surprised. Yuck.
Anyway, yep, no harm leaving the topic behind. At least we've established how SOME people were using it, and how others were using it in a completely different unrelated meaning.
@ThanosReXXX "It actually makes people look dumb for using terms that they don't know the actual meaning of..."
You do realize that's an out dated mode of thinking. Change 1 word and get w/ the times. Actually more like
"It actually makes people look Presidential for using terms that they don't know the actual meaning of..."
@rjejr Yeah, and apparently it's all the rage to act childish on Twitter too, even when officially in office...
I do agree with him on one point, though: general media are bad...
I guess I'll be waiting to visit my Californian relatives again until the orange menace has passed. (even though I've become quite used to the color living over here... ) Unless he's going to become a bit more normal, but his current track record certainly isn't inspiring any confidence...
@NEStalgia Just because I wanted to leave the topic behind, doesn't mean you don't have to tag me if you send me a reply...
@NEStalgia P.S. If they ever make a Switch game about nails on a chalkboard, then that will definitely be one title that I'll be skipping...
@ThanosReXXX LOL, I've done that to rjejr at least 3 times this week My only complaint about this forum software is no quote button that makes it obvious what people are responding to (and that you're actually responding to someone
I wonder if the Joycons have speakers on them or if they're on the main console? You could move your Joycon down like Milk, and it could emit a screeching sound. Wonder if the HD Rumble can simulate that dry grinding feeling?
@NEStalgia A quote button, and also other text format buttons would be nice, no idea why they don't have that.
As for the Joy-Cons: far as I know, they don't have speakers. There's an official infographic and it doesn't mention any:

@ThanosReXXX Yeah. Quote buttons can ruin the flow of comments in a news article, so that might be why. It makes all posts more text-wall-ish, and they grow, and as a result need a smaller font etc. On the other hand the comments as they are are an undecipherable mess of replies to posts that you don't know what they're about. That's annoying as a participant, but even more annoying as a reader without an account. I guess it's the twitter/facebook model. Bleh.
Hmm, yeah, I couldn't remember if the speakers were on the bezel below the screen or on the joycons. On the joycons would have been cool for "innovative ways to play", but that would have been a mess in table top mode now that I think about it.
At least I don't have to listen to Midna and Slippy grumbling at me from somewhere outside my headphones when I have them
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