The Nintendo Switch is now a little less than a month away. Over the coming weeks we're going to use official details and our own hands on impressions to give breakdowns and opinions on various features and games that are integral to the system. First up - the Joy-Con.
It seems an age ago now, but in early 2016 a patent emerged for a controller that would feature complex infrared and gesture recognition technology, and the paperwork actually originated in 2014 in Japan. While various patents come and go with little relation to real-world products, this one was evidently a result of Nintendo's early work on developing the Joy-Con controllers, or at least part of the concept that would eventually be a part of the devices.
That's just one part of the Joy-Con which, once they have a chance to truly shine, could have a significant impact for the Switch. If you haven't seen it for a while, it's worth catching up with the showcase of the controllers from the recent Tokyo event.
Though we've seen video demos of that infrared concept, it's not been readily shared too often; low lighting in busy events probably isn't a good setting for it, we suspect. Yet we have experienced the remainder of the Joy-Con tricks, and we think it's worth emphasizing how important these are to the system, not just as portable control elements but more besides. Time will tell whether they have as big an impact as Wii Remotes, but the technology and ideas are in place to at least give them a chance.
For this writer, the very first encounter with the controllers was in a 1-2-Switch minigame, as many others at the preview event had rushed to play The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. The much anticipated action adventure title isn't a true showcase for the controllers, though, due to it being a project shared with Wii U. 1-2-Switch may divide opinion on its status as a standalone retail game, but it is the best way to appreciate what Joy-Con can do; for that reason alone it should be considered at launch.
Our first encounter (the initial duo to attend the event) was, helpfully, with the most impressive demonstration of what the controllers can do. 'Ball Count' has a simple concept - move the controller to roll around virtual marbles in the controller, and guess how many there are. Written down like that, it sounds utterly mediocre, but in practice it was an eye-widening moment. It's the greatest showcase we've tried, to date, for HD Rumble, which is precise force feedback designed to replicate small and precise details. It was a sensation we hadn't really encountered with a controller, as you can genuinely feel each marble rolling around inside. That was a moment when we realised that these are truly clever little pieces of kit.
Aside from HD Rumble, Joy-Con (Nintendo seems to prefer the plural without the 's') naturally utilise motion controls combined with that feedback. Mini-games have you swing and 'catch' virtual swords by recreating the motions, in the latter case clapping the remote into your other hand. They pick up motion to simulate dancing, just like Wii Remotes, and infamously they combine the impressive HD Rumble with motion in the 'Milk' game. While our thoughts on 1-2-Switch as a potential purchase are mixed at best, the game did showcase what these little controllers can do. Speaking personally, this writer has pre-ordered 1-2-Switch with the sole purpose of using it to show off the controllers. On the one hand it's a reluctant purchase, but the Joy-Con are that good that they need to be showcased.
Nintendo knows, of course, that the clever alignment of accurate motion controls (shown off effectively in ARMS demos, too) and that extraordinary HD Rumble are tough ideas to sell to those watching trailers. Some will simply say the Wii Remote had motion controls and vibrated, so what's the difference? It'll only be when more people really try them out that their features really become clear. We hope that, for those that don't buy 1-2-Switch, Nintendo will come up with a short and simple 'demo' download, as one idea, that shows Switch owners these clever little tricks.
Yet it's not just the impressive technology that matters with the Joy-Con, and the easy message for Nintendo to promote has been the diversity of uses and configurations. We had a lot of fun using them as small detached controllers while playing on the Switch screen in demos like Sonic Mania and the fantastic Snipperclips, and also popping them into those dinky wheels for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. They can also become a rather modest 'proper' controller with the grip (though the Pro Controller is hard to resist for this sort of play), but most importantly enable that Switch portability.
When clipped into the console it feels like a carefully designed fit, showing that Nintendo ensured that the weight and balance work well. When playing Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Breath of the Wild with the standard Joy-Cons + Switch format, it felt comfortable and better than expected, frankly; that general though applies to the Joy-Con in general. They look so small, even as you pick them up, that you expect it to be a problem. Yet they seemed to just work, even when we were initially scratching our heads figuring out which way to hold them in ARMS.
The beauty for family and friends, of course, is that having two Switch owners in one place immediately allows four players in games like Mario Kart; it shouldn't be too hard among groups of Nintendo family and friends to get eight player matches going, as for some games you'll only need four owners on hand (or a couple of owners that have splashed out on extra Joy-Con). Right off the bat this writer's family will have three Switches between houses, so get-togethers will be easy-peasy when playing together.
Of course, the jury is still out on a few things for the Joy-Con. One is longevity, and how sturdy they'll be after a decent amount of use. Likewise, the mechanic for clipping them in and out of the Switch needs to be absolutely solid and reliable. Finally, they feel comfortable and pleasurable to use in demo settings, but the test will be longer play sessions at home, away from the rush and hubbub of events.
Finally, the lack of a D-Pad. In order to give owners two mini controllers out of the box - essentially - the configuration on the left had to be an analogue stick and four face buttons. Nintendo will naturally say those four face buttons can be a D-Pad but, let's be real, in any demanding 2D platformer or fighting game that won't cut it. The Pro Controller is an option, of course, but we hope Nintendo will release additional configurations in the future. A single left Joy-Con with a real D-Pad would no doubt sell well.
All of that said, we think the Joy-Cons have plenty to offer, and it'll be interesting to see how titles like ARMS turn out, and how franchises like Splatoon 2 and Super Mario Odyssey put the likes of HD Rumble and more to work. It's when playing with others in experiences that put the controller's capabilities to work, however, that they truly come alive. If Nintendo isn't producing a true WarioWare title, for example, we'd be surprised.
The Joy-Con have the potential and the features to be Nintendo's most innovative controllers since the Wii Remote, and arguably the most impressive to date. We can't wait to fully put them through their paces when the Switch arrives.
Comments 158
I will say the joy cons will make or break this system. Because developers being able to use them correctly will to an extent determine what third party support the NS gets and how good the ports will be.
I'm fairly excited to see how HD rumble is used, but the lack of a d pad for this PlayStation lifer is distressing. Hopefully the joy cons are easy to get used to.
Nintendo will have a Gold mine with the Joycons, once they decide to implement VR.
Personally speaking, the joy cons are my favourite aspect of the system- I LOVE the prospect of further exploration of motion controlled gameplay, and I am extremely intrigued by and excited to test out the HD rumble.
I am so optimistic for the Switch. It's Nintendo being Nintendo, for all the best reasons.
I'm glad to hear some indie developers are already making use of the HD Rumble feature. As to whether big developers ever use the feature remains to be seen - I wouldn't be surprised if for ease of porting they didn't, unless it's an exclusive game perhaps.
The lack of an actual d-pad to me is a bit annoying as I'm not the greatest fan of the PlayStation style though after a playing a few PS1 games I'm getting used to it. But I did also pre-order the Pro Controller so at least that has one.
€90 to buy separately.
A positive way to view The Switch would be to see it as a Wii and Wii U combined.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE But if you bundle them with a VR game..........
1month to go and we really don't know anything concrete.
Virtual console.
Online feature
Anything
@samuelvictor If they can manage to bundle them with a VR game, I believe they would sell like hot cakes. I actually disagree with you on the motion controls, while it isn't really used in most AAA games. In my opinion they are very useful for party/family games. As they are simple for younger kids to use effectively, rather than memorizing buttons.
I'm waiting for my Gamestop to get a Switch demo stand to try it out.
@Nintendoforlife
I think they could make alot of money by selling different versions like their 3DS'
@Xaessya That's another very plausible money source when it comes to the Joy-cons.
Im getting 1-2 switch as well, I wanna see how the HD rumble is
@UK-Nintendo Yeah you're right, come on Nintendo....
Maybe they will do a direct- soon, I hope.
Yeah, people had to "experience the effect for themselves" to get the most out of the 3DS and Wii U, as well... And look how that went over. Most people don't take the 3D effect seriously (unless it's for Colors! 3D or something), and the Wii U nearly flopped. It takes a lot of work to market unfamiliar products based on tactile feedback. I think HD Rumble has a lot of potential, and is necessary for a true VR/AR experience, but I'm not confident Nintendo knows how to market it properly.
Case in point: 1, 2, Switch (Fail). Something like ARMS or Punch-Out would have been a superior, less demeaning showcase of the technology for launch, especially if it were a pack in. HD Rumble could change the way we want to play, especially for the flagships like Zelda, but the tech seems like it's going to be let down and not fully realized. Just like Wii MotionPlus, 3D-AR scanning, and asynchronous dual screen controls before it.
I will be honest with you guys whenever I play a game with a option to turn rumble off I always do. Can't stand it.
There is an amazing amount of tech in those little controllers.
I can see the interchangeability being a huge selling point for Nintendo.
Releasing multiple control styles to suit different input methods.
Different colour schemes and styles.
HD Rumble will become industry standard in the future.
Can't wait to see what they come up with.
"but the Joy-Con are that good that they need to be showcased."
Yet their 30 second Superbowl commercial never even shows them off of the console. It shows a handheld portable going into the dock and then using the Pro controller, no clicking, no grip, no 2 player. Portable, dock for TV out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycNuwu8zrGI
It does show the Joycon click onto the Grip at the end, but not during the guy playing. Hopefully people will watch the 90 second commercial on YT after, if not before.
My friend isn't planning on getting the Switch, but the idea of HD rumble is literally his favorite thing, for some reason. I'm getting a Switch though. My only concern is that fact that it doesn't come with 1-2-Switch.
@Pj1 I really hope so. I mean right now I haven't pre ordered or anything but I don't know much about it. I was lucky to try all the demo games but only 2 of them are launch titles and I'm still confused on the virtual console and account systems of its tied to the old.
I'm actually expecting the lack of a dpad to really not matter, even for VC games. I use a moga hero controller on my phone for some older platformers (ones that utilize only four directions) and actually find that I prefer using the joystick instead of the dpad most of the time (for fighter games though I can definitely understand wanting a dpad)
I pre ordered a pro controller. It seemed logical to get a conventional controller for conventional games. That said, BRING ON THE JOY CONS!
I'm personally excited about the JoyCons. I know the price puts a lot of people off (and I dont plan to buy another pair too soon), but the versatility just makes it for me.
I'm looking forward to the moments where I can just split my controls and ask my friends/family if they want to play. No more, "Sorry, I didnt bring another controller."
I also love the prospect that two pairs will be enough for a full (albeit stunted) Mario Kart and Bomberman [and hopefully Smash] session.
Once they start releasing more colored joycons or character themed joycons I expect these to sell quickly. After seeing the fanmade custom joycons I'd def be tempted to pick up a few if they actually get made.
The Switch needs a good bowling game. That would be cool considering the positive reviews and the functions of the Joy-Con.
I'm not sold on the joy-cons. It's the portability that I think is the strongest feature.
Although, yesterday I was playing a racing game on Steam called Insane 2, and it kind of reminded me of Excite Truck and Excite Bots, but without the fancy motion controlled stunts, and I kind of missed that!
Although I really enjoy the tech in these controllers, I'm worried they aren't getting any real use in most games. Sure, Just Dance, early titles like ARMS and party games made by Nintendo are gonna use some of its features, but 90+% of games are absolutely not gonna use anything but the buttons and full rumble (I'm including Nintendo's biggest franchises here). Zelda might use everything in 2022, but that's pretty much it, IMO...
Makes me wonder if investing in this tech instead of focusing exclusively on buttons and the hybrid aspect of the console was a good idea. :/
@ThomasBW84 - You do realise that the upcoming SWITCH FIT Game will be a SYSTEM SELLER!
THE JOYCONS ARE PERFECT FOR THIS KIND OF EXPERIENCE!
Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus sold 32 million - yes - 32 MILLION Balance Boards! and bore a World record:
10th January 2012 - Nintendo’s Wii Balance Board has been awarded a prestigious, new Guinness World Record™ for “The best-selling personal weighing device”.
In order to set the record, a total of 32,114,428 Wii Balance Boards were sold worldwide between launch and November 2010. This figure comprises 22,663,321 bundled with the original Wii Fit software and 9,451,107 bundled with Wii Fit Plus software. Since breaking the record, Nintendo has now sold over 22.67 million copies of Wii Fit and more than 19.31 million copies of Wii Fit Plus worldwide.
@ZurapiiYohane64 I agree. I'd love to see various colour schemes with diffeeent coloured buttons. Maybe they'll have game themed joy-con bundled with special editions.
To me, they're basically super Wii Remotes, which is a'okay with me as I loved the Wii Remote!
Not to mention when you think about it, these things actually offer a pretty good value. Sure, the $80 price tag may seem a bit steep, but you're technically getting two controllers in one box for less/about the same as what it would be to buy two DS4s or XB1 controllers brand new. They also come with quite a bit of impressive tech stuffed in them; I'm honestly surprised they got them down to the price they did!
Also, I dunno if I agree with all these complaints about the d-pad. I mean...it looks exactly like Sony's, and I don't remember anyone disliking theirs quite as much as I'm seeing people dislike the Joy-Con's. Oh well, to each their own.
Good for A new punch-out! With VR and HD Rumble. Ohh yeah feeling that one.
I hope this feature isn't treated like the new 3ds C-Stick nub and extra shoulder buttons and just forgotten about.
I think the first concept of Nintendo Switch back to 2 years ago when I saw a prototype of Wii U gamepad attached by two Wii motes. I thought it was a joke, but I was surprised when I saw Nintendo Switch (aka NX) design from first trailer. Since Joy Cons are basically Advanced Wii motes, I really hope there are some Boxing / Kickboxing games (Kickboxing is even rarer than Boxing on video games) for Nintendo Switch (By 1st or 3rd party) that emphasizes on Joy Cons to play. Of course, traditional controller still can be used.
@Nintendoforlife so true, I hope they implement VR.
@ThomasBW84 Is the improvement in motion control noticeable when playing MK8Deluxe with the wheel, compared to playing it with a Wii Remote?
I play all games using the thumbstick, apart from fighters, which aren't really my thing anyway, so I don't see the D-pad being an issue for me.
I think the hardware looks like it'll be great. I wish we knew more about how the announced games would make use of the joycon features though. HD rumble I really don't 'get' and since Zelda doesn't utilise it and 1,2, Switch is too expensive I guess my next game would be Mario Kart, if that uses it for anything : / Or Bomberman, I wonder if that uses it in any way.
I like the idea that you can relax your arms when playing, as shown during the reveal event, with your man lying on the couch. It's a small thing but it will be nice not to be hunched over something as one does with a phone, tablet or controller. Be good on the neck muscles.
What I don't like so much is that strap with the bit of plastic, it's more fiddly bits to lug around but it seems they are necessary for comfort? I know the straps are there to negate potential law suits if one of these little fellas flies out the hand and outs an eye out lol.
HD Rumble also intrigues but hopefully it's not over done.
I agree with other commenters about the VR application. It seems the Oculus Touch controllers made a massive difference to that system.
@Xaessya: "I'm waiting for my Gamestop to get a Switch demo stand to try it out." - Same here. I probably will get my chance, once they've been there a few days; maybe a week tops.
@RenanKJ: " I'm worried they aren't getting any real use in most games." - Agreed. Hopefully, all that tech will be used a fair enough amount over the course of the NS, to justify the price.
Lack of a traditional d-pad is not cool at all; looking at the Joycons(I prefer to use an s), it appears Nintendo could have easily fit a decent sized d-pad onto each(both left/right) Joycon. I'm half-tempted to say Nintendo done it on purpose, so the joysticks would have to be used for both simplified, & complex movements, instead of a d-pad for specifically simplified movements. This furthers/speeds along the eventual breaking of the joysticks, forcing players to either replace the sticks themselves, or purchase a new controller.
Likewise, gamers that play any game that relies on hd rumble, &/or any other features of the Joycons, will have to get a new one, when the controller dies. This is a drawback to the Joycons, & probably also the Pro controller, not having a modular nature, like that retro console, mentioned in another article here, does. Granted, eventually tech smart gamers will learn the Joycons' innards, & then diy videos will become a thing. Until then, it's called "Purchase a new controller".
Edit: It's fine, if Nintendo made the Joycons rugged enough.
What I hated about the Wii, was how games had pointless waggle, when conventional control would have been better.
I think this could happen again.
HD rumble is a gimmick that will be used well in first party games, but implemented badly in third party games.
We've been joy conned.
These truly are VR ready controllers.
I am in the vibration turned off crowd but its sort of due to the crassness of current feedback. HDRumble sounds quite cool and may make a convert of some of us.
I really think many are underestimating the value of motion and analogue and lots of buttons 'seperately' in each hand. I always hated the wiimote-chuck combo because the damned tether. Also the size of wiimote made you hold it like a wand and it wasnt comfortable for extneded durations, joy-con fit entirely in your hand and should be far more natural.
As to those worried yhe features wont be utilized....be patient they will. First its not that hard to implement code for something like hdrumble, no big cost or time issue and second devs in talking about it are excited and already talking about cool concepts for games.
Imagine a real wild west game like red dead or Red Steel 3 where you use those joycon for quickdraw showdowns and i still dont know why we never saw a Lightsaber Star Wars game for Wii (especially after the motionplus upgrade).
All in all I am excited about the controller options, the pro looks nice and has hdrumble, motion, and NFC in a standard dual analogue.....sounds good and allows devs to offer the same experiences in either format.
Anyone else think the Joy-Con(s?) and HD Rumble (not to mention that it is included in the Pro Controller) is a sign Nintendo is testing out VR plans? HD Rumble is basically advanced haptic feedback and I can think of nothing that would need that sort of functionality better than VR. Invent the tech first for other stuff and get people used to it, then roll out the VR part later? The Switch console itself would probably be quite easy to stick into a headset, too. I'm not particularly interested in that as I wear glasses and I haven't found a VR headset that is comfortable with my very strong prescription. But it's a possibility, yeah? Kimishima has said they are thinking about it.
@silversparx Make your friend buy 1-2-Switch
@geordie One of the reasons for "pointless waggle" controls was that the Wiimote and Nunchuk didn't have as many buttons as a regular controller. Plus the hype for motion controls isn't there anymore so we should see a lot less of this at least.
Favored a second set of Joy Con over a pro controller. For Mario Kart play it's a much better value.
Even though I haven't tried it, I believe you Tom about the HD Rumble. I'm envisioning it in my mind. Many people will say they're just gimmicks but I love that Nintendo have added all these features into the Joycons (and procontroller). It'd be great to see if and how developers will utilize these features in gameplay.
My favourite part about the Joycons is their versatility. It's awesome that I'll basically have two controllers with me on the go. I agree about the lack of D-pad though, especially when you're playing NES/SNES VC games. Here's hoping they bring out different versions with cool colour schemes
@geordie
"HD rumble is a gimmick that will be used well in first party games, but implemented badly in third party games"
I don't think it's a gimmick, it's a natural evolution of the gaming experience. Tactile feedback helps immersion, just like good graphics, neither of which are "gimmicks". Rumble is an accepted standard and has been for decades. Improving an accepted standard does not make it a gimmick, and I think 3rd parties are going to do wonders with it because it's something so easy to implement.
See DQ Heroes HD Rumble
http://www.siliconera.com/2017/01/22/dragon-quest-heroes-ii-just-port-square-enix-says/
See Has Been Heroes HD Rumble
http://tendoswitch.com/hd-rumble-in-has-been-heroes-will-work-when-you-use-the-spells-youll-feel-the-spells-moving-across-the-screen-with-a-corresponding-rumble-effect-i-will-get-this-for-su/
See Fast Racing RMX HD Rumble
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5rgkhw/fast_rmx_uses_hd_rumble_to_provide_feedback_to/
See Tumbleseed HD Rumble
http://nintendoeverything.com/how-tumbleseed-uses-hd-rumble/
@rjejr
Well, you've gotta show people what the system is and what it does before you start showcasing the details. And HD rumble, as awesome as it is, is in the details. When you spend 5.5 million for 30 seconds, you use that time to say "here's the new system, here's what it can play, this is how versatile it is, here's what it's called". Conveying the full extent of how awesome HD rumble is takes more time than 30 seconds allows, and isn't something easily conveyed in a one liner.
@aaronsullivan That's probably the smartest thing anyone has ever said to me online. Thank you for that.
When they showed the joycon functionality, the main thing that excited me about it is that it almost 100 percent guarantees an HD update for Skyward Sword, which is going to look INCREDIBLE in HD and desperately deserves better than the Wii was capable of visually.
@samuelvictor
Motion is not something the majority of games will use (at least, not as a primary control scheme, although Zelda BotW does let you aim your arrows and crossbow with the right Joycon if you wish, which is a wonderful natural integration where it fits and makes sense... I'm sure we'll see other games integrate it smartly in a small way here and there as well).
But mainly, it's just another tool in the belt which, although it may not be used often, you want to be there when it's needed. Take Arms for example. I'm guessing maybe only 1 out of 15 1st party releases will primarily feature motion, but at least it's there to allow for games like this on occasion. At least the method of control input will not be a limiting factor for their creativity.
Pikmin is another great example. Only a small percentage of games actually benefit from motion but this is one of those few games that does. I wouldn't dream of playing Pikmin via analog... tried it with Pikmin 3 and the OG releases on GameCube and it was a nightmare, but with a Wiimote it played like a dream. Sometimes... motion just works. And it's good to have it for when you need it, even if it's not going to be all that often. It also allows for Wii VC, which, if we get GameCube I'm sure they'll be able to get Wii games running as well.
I actually cancelled my preorder on Switch, because of the missing D-pad, and lack of interesting games at launch ( I do have a Wii U ).
Eventually I will have to buy one, when there are enough great games available. But the lack of a proper D-pad is a real letdown for me, as I am mostly a potable gamer and really do enjoy classic 2d games.
If Nintendo releases a special D-pad joy-con version down the line, then everything will be fine. But I will not buy any 2d games for the machine before that happens. 3DS will be my preferred console until then.
I am sad to hear so many gamers in here, that do not give a poop about a proper D-pad. That makes be think that Nintendo will not care either, and we have to live with those poor controls forever. My excitement for Switch couldn't be lower right now
@dres
It's not that people don't care, it's that people realize the four buttons being as close as they are is going to work almost just as well. I turned a bunch of controllers upside down and tested it doing right-down-right like a shyrukin, and it felt absolutely fine. And the Switch buttons are much closer together than the controllers I tested with, so it should be even smoother. And as for platformers, well, there's no difference if you hold the right button or hold the right of the D pad.
So ya, I think people just realize it's just not as big of a deal as some think it will be. So maybe it's only 90% as good as a Dpad, but that's good enough for me, especially when it's only even an issue for 2D games, and only when on the go, and even then works 90% as well... seems negligible imo, and in return you get a 2nd controller at the ready any time, anywhere. A reasonable trade off for 10% less comfort.
upload a picture
In fact, I'm testing with STEAM controller now (since its face buttons are closer together like the Joycons) and holy moly, I can pull off a right-down-right and full 360 almost easier than I can on a Dpad (maybe this is even a blessing in disguise, cause now I'm beginning to wonder if buttons can actually be superior... I'll have to chew that over and obviously test the Joycons for myself but, this is very promising)
@dres Having played The Binding of Isaac on Wii U and then on 3DS, I thought at first that I could NEVER get used to the aiming with the face buttons after using a joystick, but once I saw how inaccurate the c-stick was, I gave the buttons a shot, and now, I have zero issues with that method. I'm thinking the same will be true for the joycon L, where it seems weird at first, but after a brief adjustment, it's fine.
Plus, after my experience with the Wii U, I've made a point of preordering the Pro Controller immediately, so it's no concern for me, and a sacrifice I'm willing to make when on the go with the Switch to not have a D pad.
That said, I'd also buy a Joycon L with a d-pad in it in a heartbeat.
Here's some food for thought for all those people still harping on about how "expensive" a set of Joy-Cons are:
And people really NEED to re-read the article (and maybe even re-read again) to truly let it sink in and really get what not only Thomas but also other people that have actually tried the controllers out are trying to convey about these little marvels.
It's not just motion controls and rumble, it's on another level entirely, and from the looks of it, probably several other levels...
I for the life of me can't even imagine rumble being able to accurately recreate the feeling of having a little box in my hand with marbles rolling around inside of it, so that MUST be something to behold, surely. And definitely NOT so easily dismissed as gimmick and/or unimportant...
But haters gonna hate, and most of them have already firmly planted their flags in the "I want no rumble in my games anymore" camp, when they should more than likely first hold their tongues and try it out to actually understand what the hell it is that they are saying no to...
I can't wait but I couldn't Pre buy with the colored controllers. Had to go all grey. Oh well. I'm going to be seriously bummed if we don't get Dragon Quest X this time around. If we don't get Dragon Quest XI in North America it would be a downright crime. I've been really wanting to play a proper MMORPG on a nintendo console so here's hoping we finally see DQX
@ThanosReXXX
PS3 Moves was just a Jealousy of Sony against Wii mote. I never like Moves at all. Completely Zero interest, Zero beautiful design (Moves looks like a Deodorant bottle or Children microphone), overpriced, MEH !!
Joy Con is the Real motion controller. With so complex features, 20 hours battery live, Beautiful color & design, easy to grip, $80 for Joy Cons here I come !!
I hate to break it to you guys hoping for VR, but it's not happening. VR will be to Switch what Gamecube VC was to Wii U.
@dres
Um... to be honest, from my experience playing NDS games with 3DS machine, I found that controlling my character with analog button was easier than using D-pad. Some of 2D games that I played on 3DS was Super Princess Peach NDS & New Super Mario Bros 2 3DS. It did same things with my other 3DS and NDS games.
@geordie
There is nothing wrong with motion controller and HD Rumble. That's improving gaming experience. I don't want just only old fashioned classic controller, I want unusual controller with very easy to use and give different experience to play.
@UK-Nintendo and don't forget about the "special customized" processor
@UK-Nintendo Those are literally the only 2 things we still don't know. For the rest is very clear.
@samuelvictor
Oh well that's cool. It's a good thing they kept the option in there for those who do prefer it. I know not all people are alike and no matter what game I feel a certain control scheme works best, there is always going to be people who feel otherwise
@dres You do know the pro controller has a d-pad right?
I've always preferred D-pads for a lot of different games over the years. There was a time when I thought the best one was on a PS2 controller. I like the floating ones on the Street Fighter Mad Katz controllers too. But I'm surprisingly optimistic about the standard Joy-Con's. The buttons look to be the same size as the ones on a 3DSXL and if that's the case I bet they'll work just fine for me. Trying a crouch dash on my 3DSXL's face buttons (upside down while the system is off) seems natural in practice, but time will tell on how the Joy-Con respond with Street Fighter, Sonic, and so on.
...these are going to be great!..it's hard to explain the HD rumble, but one of the better vids I've seen recently has me excited by the possibilities, have a look..
...a real game changer..being able to feel the weight of an object...feel a pulling or pushing force ...feeling the bumpiness of a wall and a secret panel give way..endless possibilities...I'm so stoked and can't wait to see how it's used..
..is this the big secret they didn't want the competition stealing?..
@SH007ME It can certainly give virtual reality that elusive tangible experience. No doubt Nintendo's vr strategy will absorb joycon tech.
I love the joy cons but think that "make or break" will be down to the games. On the vr note, after doing a bit of looking around i really don't think we can expect to see vr with the switch specs. hopefully switch 2.0?
The joycons are an amazing idea, combining the features of the Wii remote and nunchuck with 2 separate controllers on a portable console.
The best thing? There aren't loads of gimmickry for devs to ignore.
What the Joy-Con represent - for me at least - is a veritable toybox for developers to easily implement the features into their game. The tools developed by Nvidia seem to be the most dev-friendly of almost any Nintendo console, and combined with the compatible engines, I'm giddy to see what they come up with.
I disagree with the notion that VR isn't coming in some form, but I think it's still a couple of years off. Just imagine though.... Truly portable VR combined with the might of the Joy-Con.
I think there is some logic behind the voice chat through the app as this thing is designed for flexibility. The alternative would be to have headset jacks in every controller and for you to unplug and change every time you switched configuration and to have it all work seamlessly.
I'm not excited about the Joy-Con. Nintendo has a history of introducing things like this and never using it to its full potential, dropping support, or as time goes on, use it less and less until you forget at times that whatever it was was once touted by Nintendo as the next big thing. I sometimes think that Nintendo comes up with these ideas for their games specifically early on, and as time goes on they can't figure out how to keep pushing whatever new thing they've come up with. I'm just looking forward to the games. If the Joy-Cons are used in cool ways, I'm fine with that, in fact, I'd love to be proven wrong. But I won't be upset if two or three years into the Switches life the system starts to have more more traditional gameplay.
The only way to play 2D platformers is with a Dpad. There's definitely an issue there.
On the positive it's refreshing Switch is bringing 'in true Nintendo style' something new to the table: Hd rumble.
I just cannot, and probably will not, ever get over the right Joy Cons' analog stick placement. So bad.
Just mirror the left's! That's all you had to do, Nintendo!
Aside from that the Joy Cons, as we all know, will go grossly under utilized over the years with lost potential by anyone other than Nintendo. 2 or 3 years down the road when everyone's Switches are permanently docked in part due to a diminished battery life and in part due to the novelty of it being portable having long worn off, it is the Pro Controller that will be the truly vital control scheme of the platform.
Switch is going to be flooded with 2D games. And you're forced to buy a pro controller to play them.
Nintendo needs to show us the must have game that uses this HD rumble technology.
"as many others at the preview event had rushed to play The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild."
Eeyup.
I don't like them. Very small and no d-pad. When u watch the videos of people using them their hand is ginormous and the controller is tiny. Very unappealing. This is just a statement based on what I've seen not because I've handled.
@gatorboi352 Resent change much? Hehe
When developers use the HD Rumble, they will put it on the packaging - "With HD Rumble!" Developers will find out real quick, people will buy their game over others because of it. Also, people will want to experience their favorite game in HD from another system. HD will be standard in 6 years.
@AlexSora89 Personally, I would have veered hard right into that SEGA/ATLUS booth... Would have finally had a chance to meet Aaron/RubyEclipse, a guy who used to lead a team from a game I played 10 years ago! And now he works for SEGA... Hope it's working out well for him!
That, and I get a strangely depressed feeling from human stampedes... I feel like I'm watching a bunch of sheep/bison on their way to run off a cliff... Just walk over there. The demo booths weren't going anywhere.
A split controller allows "Stereo" HD Rumble - a feature not mentioned.
It was mentioned that the Joycon disappear comfortably in the hand. What about with the strap attachment added? Can you notice the extra bulk? Would people want to use it for the extra size?
Personally, I would have removed the current IR camera in the right Joy-Con and added in the same kind of pointer we got in the Wii. I can see far more uses for that kind of thing than the one on the current Joy-Con, like aiming in arcade-style gun games or intuitive menu navigation when you aren't using the touch screen for example, but the IR camera that's there now, and especially how it's placed on the bottom of the controller, makes me think it's really only going to be used for extremely gimmicky stuff at best and very rarely at that. Other than that I think the Joy-Con design is pretty solid for the most part. They may be a little unergonomic when using one detached per person but largely they're fine.
"Finally, the lack of a D-Pad . . . Nintendo will naturally say those four face buttons can be a D-Pad but, let's be real, in any demanding 2D platformer or fighting game that won't cut it."
I tend to disagree based on what I can literally see: The buttons are now so small and close together that they basically are a split d-pad at this point (much like on the original PlayStation controller). As long as you can roll your thumb easily across to each button and/or over two diagonal buttons at a time, which it appears would be very easy, then I don't see any good reason why they wouldn't work perfectly well as a "d-pad" alternative.
And, to be very clear, I've thought about this exact thing for a very long time so I'm acutely aware of where it needs to feel right to work as a traditional d-pad replacement:
http://www.inceptional.com/2016/01/20/ahead-of-the-nintendonx-curve-again/ (see basically the exact same thing on some of my own controller designs that are in fact very much like the Joy-Con; and I came up with those designs over 12 years ago)
"If Nintendo isn't producing a true WarioWare title, for example, we'd be surprised."
I really hope Nintendo is smart enough to be working on this as I type.
@samuelvictor Nice to see you being convinced of VR. I've been telling people for years after having my own experience (twice) with the Oculus Rift, and there's just no substitute for experiencing it for yourself. People always complain that the quality of the videos look bad, or that there's this rainbow-like discoloration around the edges because of the lenses, but if you just let the experience sink in, then 9 out of 10 times, people get the added value it could bring.
HD Rumble is going to do the exact same thing. I've recently argued that HD Rumble is a misnomer, because it isn't just rumble, it's advanced haptics and force feedback.
I can completely understand you nor being wowed by the Wii's rumble, because even though it was a bit more advanced than the rumble in both the N64 and GameCube, it was still just a little motor making a little "rrrrrrrrr" sound in your hand and vibrating in low, medium or high settings.
I think that is where the comparison ends, and people don't get that or don't want to get that, I don't know. Like I said in my previous comment, I for the life of me can't even imagine rumble being able to accurately recreate the feeling of having a little box in my hand with marbles rolling around inside of it.
Advanced haptic force feedback allows for SO much more in comparison to plain old "rrrrrrrrrrumble" that it may be a matter of seeing, or in this case: feeling is believing. It's also tapping and clicking that is possible, and probably a bit of centrifugal force to account for those other feelings, such as actually feeling pushing or pulling force, weight, resistance of different materials to accurately represent what it is you're walking on, bumping or hacking into, such as explained in Alex's video, and there are SO many more ideas floating around in my head.
Besides Alex's idea for feeling the tumblers in a lock, you can also think of defusing bombs, actually feeling shifting gears (especially when making a mistake) in driving/racing games or losing control of the wheel and slipping and sliding or feeling an accurate and distinctly different kickback of various weapons, and then there's all kinds of nuances in between there, that none of us can probably even think of right now.
The quote from Square Enix come to mind, with the HD Rumble apparently being able to accurately reproduce what it feels like to hack through a slime monster in Dragon Quest, and Senran Kagura's director talking about letting you experience "softness" with the Joy-Cons as well...
All of that should make abundantly clear that we're not just talking about little motors shaking and whirring in the palms of your hands, but something very, very different.
In my Wii games, I was kind of done with rumble as well, but I'm definitely open to being wowed by this new controller technology, so I'm at least going to try it out before I knock it and "switch" it off for the rest of my games...
@impurekind I would definitely sign up for a new WarioWare game. Pack in tons of haptic mini games and it may do a far better job than 1-2 Switch to convince people of the added value of HD Rumble.
The Wii remote had an IR camera in it. It just wasn't as powerful as the Joycon IR camera. It is totally possible to play Wii VC games with the Joycon and a battery powered light strip. Yes, the IR is a gimmick, but it is there for the potential of it doing the Wii thing. They WILL not say it for fear of the Switch being called the Wii U2.
@SH007ME "..is this the big secret they didn't want the competition stealing?"
I've seen that video before as well, and I've been asking myself the very same question. I've been trying to find that special something ever since the NX was announced, and every time, I came up empty, and after the initial Switch reveal, I was even kind of disappointed because I wasn't seeing anything at all that represented and idea so unique that Nintendo should fear it being copied or stolen by the competition.
And then the advanced tech in the controllers was revealed...
To me, it sounds quite innovative and interesting, but even so, I'm still not sure this is the secret, or maybe not the entire secret, since advanced haptics aren't new, and the Xbox One's controller also has haptic feedback in it's triggers that goes beyond normal rumble, so it's not like it hasn't been implemented before.
But it hasn't been implemented in this scale and variation, so maybe this is the secret after all. Or maybe, as some are already speculating, this is part of making the Switch "VR prepared" so that you not only get the visuals when wearing a VR headset, but also the haptic feedback to go with it to make the immersion that much greater...
Hopefully, this coming E3 more will be revealed or at least more people will be able to get their hands on it to spread the story of their experience with these special controllers.
@ThanosReXXX if Nintendo actually ends up implementing VR, it's going to be in a future iteration of Switch, not this one. Maybe the New Switch, or Switchi. Or something. Something that has at least a 1080p screen and some extra horsepower. Hell even the XB1 can't handle VR.
@PlywoodStick
Yours is more of a feline feeling than a human one.
@gatorboi352 I know, but the Scorpio will...
As for the Switch: that is exactly what I meant. Nintendo has gone in this direction for good, so there will probably be another Switch but the controls will more than likely remain more or less the same, or will at least contain the same sort of tech, so they can already prepare for that by having implemented the tech right now, and experimenting with it, to see what clicks with people and what not and then combine that with a VR headset (in their next console or next iteration of the Switch).
As for that screen: I've already argued many, many times that people are WAY too quick to judge the Switch purely based on numbers on paper. The screen may be "only" 720p, but I've yet to see or read about people saying it looks bad or is of low quality.
If anything, most agree that it actually looks far better than what they had previously expected, probably because they too went into the experience with their minds already partially made up that 720p is just the 21st century equivalent of a low res screen...
And the hardware itself may not be quite equal to a "real" home console, whatever the hell that may mean, but it's definitely no slouch either.
Here's an in-depth review on the original Tegra X1 chipset from 2015, and if you read and see what that's already capable of, then consider that there's a more capable custom version inside the Switch, and on top of that it can be programmed closer to the metal, and it has two API's (it's own NVN API and Vulkan) to get even more out of the hardware, so you may yet be surprised of what this little device might be able to pull off...
@AlexSora89 Hey, I watched The Lion King as a kid, and... HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT!?
I'm excited to try the HD Rumble as I wasn't even clear about what it meant until a week ago (when my preorder was already placed).
The possibilities are quite broad and even standard games could use this feature quite effectively.
It would be nice for games to feature sections that entirely rely on the rumble to negotiate, just to add an original element to them.
@ThanosReXXX Well, according to the leak:
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/systems/new_xbox_one_project_scorpio_specs_have_been_leaked/3
Microsoft is apparently not authorizing any Scorpio exclusives at this time... Even though the hardware upgrade would definitely be needed to actually make use of VR properly.
That said, it seems like only the memory and GPU are getting significant upgrades. The CPU is probably not going to use the new Ryzen series chips that are going to release early March, so it's likely going to be stuck with an upgraded Jaguar chip... Not exactly a hot performer for VR by comparison to Ryzen.
So yeah, XBone doesn't really seem like such a great option for VR either. PC is still the best option. It would be great to pair HD Rumble with the power of PC, but that isn't happening any time soon, unless hackers and modders crack the NS wide open...
@PlywoodStick Of course PC is the best option, never argued that. And as you might have been able to tell from my previous comment, I also tested on PC, since my own VR experience was with the Oculus Rift.
But we aren't talking about PC's here, we're talking about game consoles. And the Scorpio is supposedly specifically targeted towards both native 4K (contrary to Sony's PS4 Pro checker-boarding scam) AND VR. If the Pro can do VR, and apparently it is actually a fairly decent experience (for a console), then the Scorpio should be able to do it with two hands tied behind its back, because power-wise, it beats the Pro by a considerable stretch.
I don't give a hoot about those leaked specs. I go by facts and actual events, and the existence and acceptance of PSVR is one major factor in that actual world, regardless of what "weak" chipset they contain or not.
Personally I don't care about these.
But whilst at various switch events I noticed many complaints.
Firstly the joy con with the stick in the middle making it very hard to hold and use whilst pressing the nearest button which I think becomes B in this configuration.
Secondly the size without the additional top bar. Is very small for large handed peeps.
When they weren't in use with 1-2 or arms they felt as if a pro or on the dock or of course screen mounted would be the preferred choice.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, considering how incredibly weak an upgrade over the PS4 that the PS4Pro is, combined with the mess of connections with PSVR... It's not exactly an ideal setup. And as it turns out, it seems that almost every VR competitor is not doing so well... except for Samsung.
http://twinfinite.net/2017/02/report-psvr-oculus-rift-sales/
With the exception of the Samsung Gear VR, every other option has fallen far below initial expectations. The progenitor of the current VR wave in particular, the Oculus Rift, is performing very poorly. (So much for that $2 billion deal with the devil!) Only Samsung is currently keeping the latest VR wave from meeting the same fate as every previous wave for the past 30 some years.
Seeing as how it's low end smartphone based VR that's looking like the survivor here, instead of current console efforts, or perhaps even the more robust (and expensive) experiences that upcoming PC hardware will offer, that may well be the entry point for many. Nintendo may yet set up some kind of deal with Samsung to get in on that one-sided market. Though I must admit, the mobility of NS or smartphones combined with VR on a mass scale is a scary proposition for many reasons...
@PlywoodStick Maybe some will be more demanding before they ever start using VR, and maybe you are one of these people, but I like where it's currently at. It doesn't have to be Ultra HD, it can be N64 graphics for all I care, it STILL more immersive to me than normal gaming. And I believe that @samuelvictor agrees with me, having read his comments about his cardboard experience...
And why should a mass scale VR solution be a bad proposition, let alone scary? I think VR will be a definite part of the future of gaming, whether we like it or not.
@PlywoodStick
"I'm kind of omniscient."
@ThanosReXXX oh i have no issue with its 720p screen and agree it looks quite nice. But for purposes of VR? I think that's another story.
We'll see how well the tegra chip holds up this gen.
@JaxonH "When you spend 5.5 million for 30 seconds, you use that time to say "here's the new system, here's what it can play, this is how versatile it is, here's what it's called". "
I'm not talking about showcasing HD Rumble, you know I'm not stupid enough to think you can show that off in a commercial no matter how long it is. Is there any trailer for Switch highlighting HD Rumble, I can't think of one. HD Rumble for 99% of people is going to be "rumble" until they try it. Its like PSVR, you need to try it to go "oh".
I'm talking about this part - "this is how versatile it is".
The versatility of the system is taking off the Joycon and handing 1 to a friend for real 2 player out of the box. You don't really NEED to buy an extra controller or for your friend to buy a Switch for 2 player. That's new.
Two kids, 1 car, nothing extra to buy, that's a great savings for parents.
Tabletop mode. If you want to argue you can do that w/ 3DS already, I think it s similar so maybe they didn't need 1 player tablettop. But for 2 player tabletop is good. Guess the kids in the car already showed that though. Oh well, pics here now.
So no, I'm not arguing show HD Rumble at all, I'm saying show the versatility of playing 2 player w/ 1 console. That 30 second Super Bowl ad shows a guy waking up and playing on his handheld portable console and then putting that in a dock for TV out. He does't move the Joycon, he plays on a Pro. They should have at least showed him playing on a Grip w/ the Joycon and the device in the dock w/ the controls sticking out of the side.
There isn't really ANY of the true versatility of the Switch in that 30 second ad, it's a handheld and a TV out dock, that's it. The Joycon basically don't exist, they are just controls on the side of the handheld.
@rjejr
30 seconds. Not enough time for everything.
And showing a handheld that instantly and seamlessly becomes a home console... you can belittle it all you want, but that is the greatest versatility ever seen, and the main selling point
@ThanosReXXX Hm... maybe I'm just taking the more dystopian concepts presented by titles such as Shin Megami Tensei 2, Alpha Centauri, and Deus Ex 1 too much to heart... But it seems like something that could readily exploit human minds if the technology develops far enough. I have nothing against the current state of VR, though. The only harm it would do today is akin to reckless drivers.
@AlexSora89
"Nintendo will naturally say those four face buttons can be a D-Pad but, let's be real, in any demanding 2D platformer or fighting game that won't cut it. "
Maybe I haven't seen enough games to assess it, but isn't movement in platformers and fighting games tied to sticks nowadays? I'm not sure where these buttons would even be a single D-pad in the age where the D-pad was relegated to stick duplicate or quick menus.
@PlywoodStick
@JaxonH "and the main selling point"
I'm not belittling it, but if it's the main selling point why has Nitneod put so much emphasis on 1 2 Switch and ARMS? Are any of those about switching between TV and handheld, or are they about using the Joycon?
Ninnteod keeps calling it a home console, but 1 2 Switch and ARMS have gotten a lot of promotion from them. And MK8D w/ 2 player w/ the Joycon, and Splatoon 2 tabletop w/ the Joycon. I think if you look at all their official footage there is more showing off the Joycon than taking the Switch in and out of the dock.
I know it only 30 seconds, and I do think it's good commercial for Zelda, I just don't think it's really a commercial for the Switch, it's a commercial for Zelda. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Here's how my "splitting hairs" mind views the difference.
If it was a Zelda commerical - show a lot of Zelda, playing Zelda in bed, on the TV, make people want this great looking Zelda game. And then if you make them want Zelda enough, maybe they'll buy a Switch to play it.
If it was a Switch commercial - show off the 2 player Joycon w/ MK8D, Splatoon 2, Zelda, ARMS. Make people want to buy the Switch and all the games, not just Zelda.
This isn't a 30 second Switch commercial, it's a 30 second Zelda commercial. We already had the Switch commercial last year. And the longer one is for Switch, but the Super Bowl commercial? More people will be talking about wanting to play Zelda than buying a Switch, it's a Zelda commercial to me.
@gatorboi352
Sorry, I don't think Joy Cons are bad design. Instead, I LOVE them. Even better than Wii mote and what's wrong ?
I'm sure Switch battery can long lived until 5-6 years and during that time, there will be a lot of Youtuber explain how to disassemble Switch to replace internal battery. I'm sure 100% and I still can play Switch with Joy Cons even internal battery dies. Just plug in Joy Cons into Joy Con grip and problem solved.
@gatorboi352 I'm definitely curious to find out. There must surely be a reason why Nvidia themselves have once again chosen to use it in their Shield console as well, so perhaps there's more to it than we know.
The Jon cons are souped up Wii remotes that have more options. They are a bit pricey. At least they have analog. I will figure out the whole Hd thing when it is in my hands. I don't know whether to get the other controller or the additional joy con. Because of the whole bomber man thing, I'm leaning towards going with the joy con.
@rjejr
I wouldn't sag they've "spent so much time on them". Not any more than any other game.
The great thing about a versatile console like Switch is it can be either, or, or both. So they can advertise console games, they can advertise handheld games, and they can advertise games that function as both.
What are they supposed to do? Pretend those 2 games don't exist? Don't tell people what they are? Arms can be played on the handheld too btw, with motion or normal controls, and 12 Switch can be played on the go as well. You'd have to pull out the kickstand and Joycons, but it's not limited to play on the TV. The main selli point of the console is that it's both handheld and console. That you can play at home on TV, or out and about on the Switch. Arms and 12 Switch do nothing to change that fact.
And no, it's a 30 second Switch and Zelda commercial. A few million saw the reveal trailer. 100 million could see this. So they can't assume everyone knows what it is and what it does. It isn't that famous yet. And games sell consoles. So showing the Switch is fine and dandy, but without a game to sell it... what good is it.
@AlexSora89
"I am not a demon. I am a lizard, a shark, a heat-seeking panther. I want to be Bob Denver on acid playing the accordion."
@rjejr
Because Zelda Breath of the Wild will be the first game for Switch on 3 March 2017, so Nintendo must build the hype first. And next advertising showed some Switch games and it was almost 5 minutes, showed 1 2 Switch gameplay also. And also we were finally saw some kids on Switch advertising. Are those commercials not enough to build Switch hype ?
Hopefully Nintendo and Dev's will utilise the Joy-Cons n the Pro-Con in unique ways rather than the features rarely or not even being used.
@PlywoodStick
This thread is now about Nicolas The Cage Engine.
@JaxonH "And games sell consoles. "
Which is why I think it's good they are showing a Zelda commercial during the Super Bowl, but that's what it is, a Zelda commercial.
OK, imagine this, it's SB LIII and Switch has been out for 2 1/2 years. They show a commercial just like this for Z:BotW2. Now are we all going to call that a "Swtich" commercial, or are we going to call it a "Zelda commercial?
Is this a COD commerical or a PS4 commerical?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIe-lTujzgs
I suppose you'll say "both", but if forced to pick one?
How abut this commercial? Is it for PS4 or AC or inFamous or whatever else was in there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb2Ur7_fT48
I'm going to be nice and give you the last word, I'm sure we both ave better things to do.
@rjejr
Negative.
If they only showed Zelda, then I'd agree.
The fact they went out of their way to show him rolling over and grabbing Switch right out of bed, then showed him put it in the dock and seamlessly transition to TV... guess what... that's showing the Switch and what it does for games like Zelda.
You always think so black-and-white. Never any gray. It's either "for Zelda" or it's "for Switch", never any in between. The world is full of in betweens, and for the price of a SuperBowl ad they've got to show people what the Switch is, in addition to showing a game like Zelda
Nice to see that the lack of a d-pad was mentioned in the article! I would totally buy a second Joycon set with a d-pay on the left one.
@Franklin No, that would be a terrible idea.
a) the Switch has no second screen
b) the Switch's motion controls are far superior to the Wii's
@geordie I'm sorry, but that means you didn't understand how those Wii games worked. Unless we're talking about those stupid minigames in Wario Shake it, you weren't supposed to waggle! You were supposed to make singular, precise motions. That's what many people didn't understand when they were playing Wii Sports, for example.
Just because people used it the wrong way, doesn't mean it was pointless.
Waggling is the equivalent to button mashing. It's just not meant to be played that way.
@Nintendoforlife Agreed, this is also the main reason why the HTC Vive is superior to Sony and Facebook, they just have the best controllers for VR.
@NintySnesMan Back in the days I did that too, but nowadays rumble has come a long way.
Although I played GTA V with mouse and keyboard on PC, I'd say you're missing something from the game experience when you play it without a controller with rumble. I had played it on Xbox 360 previously and the rumble was quite fitting when you were driving.
I haven't tried it yet, but from what I've heard, HD Rumble is not even comparable to that. Having a higher rumble resolution changes everything, because now it's not just vibrating but actually giving you the feel of whatever it is you would feel in that situation if it were real (like the icecubes in the glass).
@Shane
I know what your saying but rumble isn't for me. I don't buy a game for that feature if I play a game and can't turn it off then that's OK but if I can then I will. The selling point of switch isn't the rumble but it's diversity of home and away play but most of all it will be the games. With that said HD rumble will be a great addition for most ppl if incorporated into games that genuinely use it and not just added in there for the sake of it
Can't wait to turn of rumble to save batery like I always do with past consoles sigh
@JaxonH Is it confirmed that gyro aiming works in zelda, when using the joycons without the grip???
Sad to say, that I've been a big nintendo fan since they created the NES and were loving the games they made for the Atari too, but recently...I haven't been caring for their systems and haven't felt excited for anything nintendo has been doing since the Wii's launch. The Wii U didn't look impressing...and it wasn't...and the 3DS didn't even get me excited, I still had a DS and that wasn't even as exciting as the original gameboy was. Even so, after watching the video on this system, I still don't feel excited, maybe it's being older than many of the people on this site, but I just don't feel excitement towards it...it's kind of over-priced and seems like it wasn't fully ready by nintendo unless they announce more later on in terms of games...and it doesn't even seem like the E-Shop will be up and running yet, which it took them several months to get it up and working for the 3DS. I guess I'll get the system closer to the holidays when Mario comes out, but I still don't see that being the only game that interests me for it.
Other than that, I'll keep on reading and waiting to see what else is coming to it, that isn't coming to the other systems too. Maybe something besides Zelda and Mario can keep me wanting it.
To the general public watching a commercial, joycons will look EXACTLY like the wii remote.
"Oh motion control a milking game? Is that like wii? Yeah we got a wii. I never really played it though. Got bored. I think it's in the basement."
You do NOT want the general public to thing this is STILL the Wii (like they thought with Wii U).
@shani
http://www.ricedigital.co.uk/eight-defining-games-waggle-generation/
I dunno, it seems like it was meant to be that way...
@JLPick
eShop will be there day one. Otherwise people are gonna have a hard time buying I Am Setsuna and the other digital day one games...
@JH64
A member on here went to one of those Switch events, and said he used the Right Joycon to aim. So that's where I heard it from.
@PlywoodStick
Maybe for shovelware but, Motion has come along way since the early Wii days. Like every new technology it takes a few years to mature. Motion in 2017 is a far cry from that of 2006.
Games like Arms and Zelda BotW, and (hopefully Pikmin World) will really drive that point home.
@PlywoodStick Yeah I know this perception of it established itself and maybe some Nintendo commercials even amplified that - I can't really remember the ads. But in almost all motion controlled games waggling just wasn't the way to play it. You could never beat Wii Boxing on the higher levels with waggling, you could never beat any opponent in Tournament of Legends that way and you certainly could never defeat Ghirahim in Skyward Sword with waggling.
Sure, there were minigames that required nothing more from you than too waggle the Wiimote, like in Rayman Raving Rabbids or Mario Party, but those were the exception.
And this exception became the perceived normal way to use a Wiimote, but it wasn't actually the normal way in most games - if you wanted to play them properly that is. I remember many friends of mine still waggling their Wiimotes in Wii Sports despite it not bringing the results they wished. It almost seemed to me like they had more fun by pointlessly waggling the Wiimote than by actually winning a game.
Except for those cheap minigames where waggling was explicitly asked from you, the normal ways to use the Wiimote motion controls were swinging, stabbing and maybe rotating. But not in a wild and uncontrolled matter, but rather with singular and (relatively) precise movements.
Unfortunately, all everyone seems to remember from the Wii era are those minigames.
And that's probably why after about 3 years, the Wii lost its momentum. It had impressed everyone at first with the newly introduced motion controls, but later on Nintendo (and everyone else) failed to take the next step, to emphasize how those motion controls were supposed to be utilized in a more advanced matter, especially in core games. Because those challenging/ambitious games did exist on the Wii, but that didn't stick with our collective memory.
@JaxonH That's great! I think the separated joycons will feel great too play with, add in HD rumble and motion control and they will be the best home console controllers ever!!
So here's the thing: Nintendo's bringing out the VR headset for the Switch, right? The HD rumble could be the next step in VR technology. Think about how much more immersive VR will be with a controller that can give feedback that is that detailed!
@JH64
Ya that pretty much sums up my thoughts. It's 2017, and I'm ready to see technology drive innovation forward. It's not that a normal controller is inadequate (well, sometimes it is) it's just that controls could be so much more than they are now.
I don't want motion replacing normal controls in every game regardless of whether it's superior or not (aka Wii era) but what I do want is motion supplementing normal controls where it makes sense, where it fits... where it's superior and when it improves the level of control offered.
It took 10 years to get us here, but we're finally here. Wii U kind of was the same way, but you needed a separate controller for motion and it was the same old stuff we were using back in the Wii days. This... this is what I've been wanting. A new, revised Wiimote with dual analog, that still keeps analog controls front and center, but supplements it where it's a natural fit or offers an alternative (Arms and Pikmin, neither of those games would I dare to play without Joycon motion).
This is how it should be.
@shani @JaxonH
@PlywoodStick
?????
Why are you addressing me in that post?
@JaxonH No reason, I was just cracking up.... No meaning to it.
I don't think the d pad thing is even a bad thing. Seriously, the pro controller seems like a waste of cash.
Forget your old d pad, old people. You have four directional inputs. And analogue controls. You're living in the 90s and they're dead.
@JaxonH It's supposed to be a really long GIF that excerpts from a Star Trek movie. Dunno why it wouldn't load for you... In any case, for Kirk in particular, the lower GIF highlights the knee jerk overreaction that some traditionalists (the subject of the term "fanboy") express towards change (which has it's beginnings in a light hearted joking manner in the upper GIF, which the traditionalist sees as a threat).
@samuelvictor
Did I link you those articles about 3rd party games using HD Rumble or was that someone else? Square says when you swing a sword in DQ Heroes you'll be able to feel whether you're hitting a metal Slime in the group or not. Shinen for FAST says when you contact the side railings, you'll be able to tell exactly where you're hitting it and how hard. Stuff like that, at least to me, sounds amazing.
I'd have to really think about how else it could be used for other games that you mentioned, but imagine doing a stomp with Mario that gives a slight rumble on contact, and will vary depending on if he's Metal Mario or not. Or maybe with Zelda, feedback from bomb blasts and what side it's hitting you from, or arrow tension the longer you hold it, or... ask @PlywoodStick he had a really good idea last week I can't remember. Skyrim could use it to add a feeling of weight to combat, since melee combat in Skyrim is pretty weak sauce imo. Idk, I'm sure devs who really think about it can come up with some super cool and natural rumble integration. Nothing overbearing, just subtle uses here and there where it fits.
@PlywoodStick
Ya I saw it change right after I posted, and immediately it made more sense
@erv
Um, Idk if I'd go so far as to say Dpads are worse, but I keep telling people I tested out the STEAM controller, Wii U Pro controller, PS4 controller and X1 controller upside down, testing Street Fighter moves and mimicking running right and left in a platformer and it seems to work just fine. The PS4 controller was the worst one but that's cause the buttons are spread so far apart. But for STEAM controller with buttons super close like the Joycons are, I honestly think it's just as easy to pull off a right-down-right or full 360.
At the very least I think we need to try it before knockin it.
@samuelvictor I guess what sets apart a VR phone attachment from a standalone VR device is that it entails a phone being pressed next to your prefrontal cortex for extended periods of time. For children in particular, there's no concrete studies that have been allowed to be completed in the USA on how nuking younger, spongier heads with multiple bands of wireless radiation, especially 4G or even the upcoming 5G, could adversely affect youth brain development over the course of decades.
It's not as much a problem for adults, limiting exposure is fine. But for kids potentially growing up wearing a phone strapped to their heads for hours every day, like a smaller Virtual Boy... That's one reason why I'm more enthused about AR than VR. And it will be the smartphone variety of VR that survives, it would seem...
While I dislike the ridiculously high prices of the JoyCons and the lack of a d-pad, I think the JoyCons still work well as a normal controller. Unlike with the Wii, nobody has to shoehorn in any motion controls into their Switch games, as all the necessary button inputs found on a normal controller are present. Even Arms, a game that emphasizes the use of motion controls, can still be played without it.
The JoyCons seems like they would work great with VR, provided that Nintendo actually pursues VR development.
@JaxonH This one?
"Well, at least the ideas you could use it for are interesting. For example, in a future Zelda built for NS, you could feel when an arrow is nocked correctly in the middle of your bow, based on the positional feedback given to represent tension. That's a significant step up in "controls fidelity", if you will, from what was possible on Wii MotionPlus.
It gets me thinking about the possibilities...
Being able to feel the exact position and bluntness of that sharp clang of Link's sword when it hits a wall or something it's not effective on, or a more satisfying straight cut on a good hit, like cutting straight through a tough vegetable or soft butter, depending on what is hit...
Being able to feel the intensity of explosions based on proximity and size, or even the crackle of a bomb/bomb arrow fuse as it's burned through...
Feeling for outcroppings of rock while climbing up cliffs, for ridges of stone or wood to activate switches or push objects, or perhaps a sharp jolt to indicate having grabbed onto something spiky...
Feeling the force of a fish fighting back against the rod/line/hook while fishing, with the heaviness and degree of force depending on the size of the fish...
Using the JoyCons almost like pushing barbells to simulate needing to pick up all your weight to move forward while wearing the iron boots, along with the bottom of the controller giving a heavy downward pull...
Reverberating jolts from hookshot activation, flat and light swishing movements from the bug catching net, feeling the volume of a bottle filling up with a potion or feeling like it's being tapped by a bottled fairy...
Feeling the expansion of a sonar/radar, or something like that, accompanied by a positional ping tap upon finding an object of interest, when using the Mirror of Truth or other item, to scan for hidden openings or secrets..."
I think it's the kind of thing that would become a desired ubiquity if it caught on. The catch is creating that paradigm shift away from the currently accepted style of gameplay. Indeed, Nintendo has a momentous task ahead of them.
Also, I remember how the original PS1 controller had "D-pad buttons" instead of a full D-pad. So in my opinion, that aspect doesn't bother me at all about the JoyCons.
@ThanosReXXX I'd definitely be onboard with that.
@PlywoodStick
@PlywoodStick
That's the one. Probably how I subconsciously thought of arrow tension. There's so much you can do. If fans on NintendoLife can come up with awesome ideas, surely developers will too. Shame Zelda doesn't cater to either Wii U or Switch. Should have put Sheika tablet as gamepad in Wii U version as originally planned, and added HD rumble in the Switch version to make them both stand out.
@PlywoodStick Luckily, according to most hands-on testers, HD Rumble isn't going to be anything like in those gifs you posted; it's FAR more subtle, which is part of the beauty of it.
Both more immersive, yet non-intrusive...
@westman98 The Joy-Cons aren't expensive. I already proved that in comment #55...
@ThanosReXXX So we've heard from Alex. We'll get to fondle some virtual marvelous marbles instead of wringing a remote with a condom on it, huh? Sounds... intriguing.
Also, I don't think price for the JoyCons will be as much as an issue as stock. Most people will go for the R JoyCons separately, since most people are right handed, and it has the NFC and IR tech in it. What are people going to do when either the L or R JoyCon sells out?
@PlywoodStick Yeah... everybody's singling out that example, or the ice cube counting thing, but the point is: they're JUST examples.
A lot of people seem to have an inability to think further than that for themselves, while what they should ACTUALLY do is try and grasp the idea behind it and how utterly different it would feel to actually feel other sensations than just soft, medium or hard rumble, but all I see is: "nah, I don't want to count ice cubes" and "I don't see the added value of being able to feel marbles in my controller".
These are highly limiting and short-sighted thoughts. There's tons of examples to be found online of what the tech could do and mean for a more immersive way of experiencing your games, and I just wish that more people would at least be open to truly experience that, instead of dismissing it before they've even spent a single second with it.
But whaddaya gonna do, right? People will be people, and sheep will be sheep. "Nintendo is bad, weak, not innovative and in fact utterly behind the times"... Such stupidity makes me both laugh and sad at the same time.
They probably should have just made purdy graphics box nr. 3 and then all the whiney Debbie Downers would have been happy... Or would they? To me it seems that no matter what Nintendo does, there's always something left to complain, so apparently, they just can't win...
Hello
@Priceless_Spork Yes... YES... YES...
☂нℯ ♏ᴇღ∃ṧ αяℯ ḉ◎мḯη❡...
@JaxonH Glad for that. Was disappointed when the 3DS shipped and it took almost 3 months for it to come on, especially since there wasn't a lot of greatness there for the launch titles.
I personally hope that the Streetpass Group scheme will be renamed Joy-Con Division.
@samuelvictor @ThanosReXXX
well I guess if a mobile phone can do vr the switch can too. maybe this type of very basic vr could be a good test of concept.
@Exeggutor
Hi (waves)
Why are you trying to convince us to be excited about motion controls again? Are you hoping that we've been living on a different planet for the past 10 years? I was excited about motion controls in 2006. I then had to endure the next few years of the worst controlled games I've ever played. Forgive me if I can't get excited again.
I'm very fond of the joycons to begin with for the sole reason that they're wireless and disconnected from each other.
With the Wii U, I was sad to lose the option of holding my left and right hand apart from each other and in more relaxed positions.
After that comes the sheer genius of them funtioning as two separate regular controller. Every system coming with two controllers is a huge boon.
How well the infrared, HD rumble, and motion recognition works are all tertiary questions to me.
@ThanosReXXX ...I like your thinking...and I'm sure there must be more to reveal ...we'll soon know tho and I can now imagine your gun idea..imagine how many Switch owners there would be with a VR Call of Duty/Splatoon/Res Evil, with a VR Joy Con Super Scope that let's you feel a machine gun rattle or shot gun blast (and reload)..my body's ready...
@samuelvictor Forgot to react to this earlier comment of yours:
"But my concern is that I'll still be very aware that I am sat in my living room, looking at a TV (or tablet) and holding a controller, therefore any extra "immersion" may be at best abstract and at worst, distracting. Often I turn off rumble as I dislike being actively reminded that I am holding a controller."
Although I already mentioned it in part, I wanted to add that it's not so much about being aware of where you are or that you are holding a controller in your hands, it's about sensations being more accurately represented in and during games.
In the old days of rumble, no matter what you did in a game, all you had was the three basic rumble settings low, medium and high, and then some patterns, that started with simple long and short bursts, and was later on expanded on by all kinds of "rhythms", such as heartbeat patterns and so on.
The same patterns were/are actually used in smart phones to this very day.
But the problem (bit of a big word, since it's not THAT much of an issue, but for lack of a better word, I'll go with it for now) was and is, that there is an almost complete disconnect between what you see on screen and what you feel in the controller.
Bumping into a wall or a rail with a car isn't accurately represented by a little rumble motor that can only vibrate and make "rrrrrrrrr" sounds. Neither is hacking into something or shooting something or hitting someone with a fist or foot.
Walking up or down stairs also doesn't feel like rumble in real life, and I could go on and on and name dozens of examples.
Now, even though I agree with you that you will still be sat in your chair or on your couch, in your room, holding a controller, or in the case of the Switch: controllers, it should still be a richer experience because now the feelings and what is displayed on screen will match almost perfectly: a sword hitting a stone or metal will create some kind of "clang!" sensation and have a reverb, a knock on wood will actually feel like a knock and not like a bit of whirring.
And I already mentioned variations in weapon recoil in a previous comment: a pistol shouldn't feel the same as a shotgun, and then there's the whole feeling weight and resistance thing, used in the marbles demo and cow milking demo respectively.
Those are things that you just can't replicate with a rumble pack or rumble motor and that is what personally turned me off of rumble in quite a few games, because it just didn't add up and sooner took me out of the experience instead of adding to it.
In another thread I also likened the advanced haptics experience to flight simulators such as you can find on carnivals or in theme parks like Euro Disney/Disney World. I went there and entered the Star Wars experience, a 20 or 30 seat space, suspended on 6 hydraulic arms, firmly fixed to a concrete floor.
And even after having seen that before I entered, the contraption was STILL able to fool my brain, albeit in combination with a video being played on the screen where the front windshield of the "freight ship" should be, that we were doing loopings, barrel rolls, and all kinds of other clearly impossible moves, since the thing could only move about within the range of those hydraulic arms, which was probably not more than a little over foot in each direction (up or down) but once again, like with rumble, using combos of the arms and various patterns of movements, the brain can VERY easily be fooled.
Obviously, the Joy-Cons aren't flight simulators, but from what I've read, they are using the same basics to fool the brain into thinking that you're experiencing something that you intellectually know or should know, isn't really there, like that marble or ice cube counting demo.
You know it's not real, and yet everybody that has tried it out swears they can "actually" feel the marbles rolling and the ice cubes bouncing around in the glass. And they say this while holding and looking at a controller, but still it feels real.
And I think THAT is also part of the magic. Your intellectual brain is telling you you're looking at a controller, yet the other part of your brain is telling you that you really ARE feeling marbles and/or ice cubes. And because that doesn't compute, the brain kind of explodes and amazement and wonder pour out to almost completely overwhelm the logic and from all hands-on experiences we've seen and read so far, that is exactly what makes it such an interesting experience.
So, maybe we should indeed allow ourselves to be wowed, and forget all about how underwhelming or disconnected "normal" rumble actually is when you think of it. This is something new, and it should probably not be compared to what we already know, save for the fact that it is much, much more detailed and exact in its representation of various sensations.
I for one am more than ready to get my hands on these little gizmos and can't wait to experience all those different sensations for myself...
@SH007ME Indeed, can't wait to try it out for myself. I guess in that respect, the hype train is definitely back on track...
@JaxonH I started playing FEH, only up to chapter 2 so I'm not planning on battling you or anything but my ID code is:
0605782336
@samuelvictor I feel the same about no HD Rumble in BotW as you, but I would also understand them not wanting to create any disparity between the two versions, so I actually DO buy that excuse and I think it not being included setting a dangerous precedent is "ever so slightly" over-exaggerated.
That Switch version will be a winner based upon the portable aspect and the superior fidelity and frame rate alone, so while it could have benefited from having some interesting HD Rumble implementations, I personally feel that this is not going to be something of the "make it or break it" kind...
@samuelvictor Completely agreed on the map thing. I certainly shed a tear upon hearing that being removed. I really LOVED how it showed the enormous scale of the game world and it was interesting seeing how it could be used, but unfortunately that's all water under the bridge now...
As for the rest, they must have had some reason, that was valid enough to them, although you make a very good point on the Wii version of Twilight Princess. Come to think of that one, it must at least in part have had something to do with the standard control configuration of the Wii, with the remote supposedly being in the right hand and the nun chuck in the left one, even though not everyone may have used it in that way, since we're not all right-handed... (hint: I'm a lefty)
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