Rumour: ROM Chip Maker Macronix Drops Hint Nintendo Could Be Abandoning Optical Storage For NX

Sounds like evidence for NX being a handheld. Nintendo would be insane to go back to carts for a home console.

and so... we still know nothing!

its hard to comment with out knowing anything. I don't see carts being able to hold modern games (20 to 40GB+) but its entirely possible its for handheld games or some form of game lending.... @_@

Still know nothing!

ROM is also used the manufacture of actual consoles, maybe that's all it is? I feel like disks and especially cartridges are a step backwards, in terms of public image mainly. But in terms of technology, robust cartridges make a lot more sense these days.

This points to NX being a handheld, but if Zelda is launching on the new handheld it's either really powerful or it's scaled back. So maybe a console? Nintendo is crazy.

(In a good way).

good lord, a year of this, but i'll bite. cart for portable and otc, then download for the high-res/console. makes sense. two words that haven't been used to describe nintendo decisions lately, so it will be cart for home console, then download for portable.

@Grumblevolcano why?

carts are less prone to damage & they load quicker

yeah manufacturing cost might be an issue but when you can get little flash drives that can hold more data than a duel layer blu-ray disc why wouldn't you?

the only main downside i can see is the lack of Backwards Compatibility but then again Sony abandoned that on the PS3 and it hasn't REALLY done them much harm

Hi-capacity carts sound like a good idea to me. I love the 3DS, and an updated/compatible version with the NX would be amazing!

Digital only. You buy your own cartridges and put whatever game(s) you want on there.
Inconvenient and stupid from a business standpoint? Of course, but it would be cool.

Cartridges make a lot of sense. Optical media are really, really slow, and are bottle-necking load times, which is why Xbox One and PS4 games have to be installed on the HDD. Discs are becoming a thing of the past in gaming.

@abe_hikura Actually depending on the one they choose, cards can hold a ton more than a disc can. In the end they're storage devices and say they chose to use a 128gb SD card for example to store every piece of game software, then I'd say that gives potential for some really outstanding potential on every video game.

Of course that's an example so really it depends on what they actually use in the end.

I am not all concerned with what format the games are stored on, and if this makes the system a little bit cheaper then that is just a bonus. My only concern is how much data can cartridges store in comparison to blu rays and such. I am not an expert on the subject but I can only imaging that the new carts will be able to store a lot of data, and they will have to be because the NX's games will likely be huge like on Xbox One and PS4.

This could well indicate that the NX is a handheld divice...maybe..?

As long we have no issue in terms of storage space, carts on the N64 caused Nintendo a lot of issues. But we're past those times now.

I for one welcome our new cartridge overlords.

@troj27 NX could be a home console with a handheld component but there is no way it will be only an handheld. They are trying to boost the 3DS with games and leaving the Wii U for dead without games.

So they have to launch the next home console generation, no doubt about that.

ps : I would like a cartridge base NX if the capacity is sufficient and not too expensive. A smaller, quieter console with faster loading times is always good.

Well, to be fair, other than storage capacity and price, carts/card media (especially game cartridges) has always been superior to disk-based media. And, if we hadn't went off on a tangent with CDs back in the day, we might have much higher storage and far cheaper carts by now too. So, I'm not against carts/cards, as long as they're very cheap and aren't a noticeable sacrifice in terms of storage when compared to disks.

So long as Nintendo's next home system has a form of physical media, be it disc or cartridge, then I'm perfectly okay. I would be rather put off purchasing the system if it was digital only for it's games.

Yep rock on with the cartridges , awesome if true.

They could do it. Playstation VITA went with little SD-type cards for their games, and they were able to hold a lot of great games on it, so I could see nintendo do this and cut some costs out of manufacturing discs...it would also be an easier way for more games to arrive for the system, which is another reason I could see them doing this...would also work if you could take it on the go.

It would be really cool as carts are awesome and have monitary value.

But also seeing as all games have updates and patches these days the cpacity of the actual card isnt an issue. All it needs to be able to is hold the base game and DRM. Name me one game that doesnt have a day one patch on ps4 xbox one. Nintendo is a lot better at bug testing but still the smash bros game you are playing today on your wii u is full of patches not on the disc. The disc is used as a access key as much as anything. A lot of the data can be on the internal hard drive.

The propossed ability to therefore be back compatible with 3ds is also not lost on me and would help shift early units

@Dakt Likelihood is that it combines both in some way. It's releasing with the next Zelda, and Wii I software is slowing down. Then again so is 3DS to some extent, which is why I believe NX will incorporate both formats amoung many other reasons.

@Steel76 Optical media is still the cheaper option. It makes sense for a handheld to go with cartridges, but for consoles? Optical media is cheaper and that's the only reason to go that route. It currently doesn't make sense to go with SD or ROM cards.

@Octane I get your point but the big question is, how expensive is ROM technology exactly nowadays? I have never read any hard numbers regarding this. There are quite a few advantages in using cartridges actually, with price being the only disadvantage. Maybe they think it's worth it. Especially with download distribution on the rise, the type of physical media shouldn't be the most important factor for the systems success any more like in the 90's.

Maybe custom NX SD Cards? Can get plenty of storage for a Game on one of those, and if the NX is both Home Console and Handheld, it would be one of the ones to make the most sense.

If the 32GB aspect is true though, that seems a little small for some modern home console games. Having said that, it will have the capacity to read more and 32GB carts could just the base standard - could easily double (or treble/quadruple it) for big games.

Handheld or not, I'm totally on-board and hope it's true. My PS1/PS2 games have not faired well over the years...

I work in the photographic and video industry and flash storage has gone through the roof in recent years. Also data transfer speeds have likewise increased dramatically. At the same time prices have fallen through the floor. Now is the ideal time to go back to cartridge for storage. Load times can be dramatically decreased. You could also store DLC and updates on the cart itself. Optical storage would just hold the system back.

Digital only would be great. And otherwise, they're better off going with sd cards anyways.

Bye bye optical, I won't miss you.

You can buy 64GB SD cards nowadays can't you? That'd work.

@ennan oh damn, that didn't even cross my mind: why not hold DLC on carts rather than console storage?! That's a great idea. Capacity would not be an issue and it could help preservation.

It did say ROM though...

@Damo

Cheapest 32 GB storage on Amazon.com is $9. Cheapest Burnable Blu ray is less than $0.50 each. Cost is the biggest reason this fails.

I can't help but think this would be N64 again. You can say $9 is cheap but when you are selling $50-60 games that drop to $20-30 games, that is a huge chunk of profit to give up to manufacturing. I could see Nintendo going all digital, but I can't see them handicapping a system with high media cost.

@yopparai They're getting cheaper relative to optical media, but we're not there yet. Optical discs cost next to nothing to produce. High capacity SD cards still costs several dollars to manufacture; It's not a lot, but if you take shipping, storage, and the cut from retailers in perspective, it's a lot. If publishers can save several bucks per game by using optical media, they will do so. Of course, it's Nintendo, and they often have weird backwards ideas, so I wouldn't be surprised. However, in general? Optical media is still the superior and preferred option when it comes to production costs.

Yeah, More Rumours about NX!!
Well, nothing new, XD

This is what I wrote in July 2015:

"I think if the NX has a gamepad of similar form to the N3DS, but is HD and has a slot for a new higher density cartridge (but is also backwards compatible with DS/3DS cartridges), which all new physical releases are published on, runs cool and silent and has a decent battery life, then I'm in. So I can play at home and then just walk right out my door with the gamepad and keep playing..."

Surely not? Don't tease me. But I hope so...

My question is that, would anyone agree that Nintendo made this move? You know, disc to flash-based memory cards?

That's my concern.

@CTMike

I assure you blu rays will lost alot longer than CDs.

@Octane But... 3DS games are always cheaper than Wii U games on release. I know they're smaller games, but if carts were that expensive comparative to disc, we'd see it in 3DS cart prices.

@gcunit It's a cool idea, but from a technological perspective that wouldn't work. The entire system would basically be a handheld and a home console in one, and the price would be close to both of those combined. In theory it's neat, but it just doesn't work in practice.

@John_Enigma What's your concern? Your post doesn't make complete sense to me.

@Octane Not necessarily. The portable side of it could be an optional additional purchase, they don't have to come packed together if other controllers are also compatible.

The cartridge would hold all the necessary data, but the handheld downscales the performance compared to if the home console is running the cart.

I.e. you'd have to remove the cartridge from the home console and put it in the handheld to go mobile, so not 100% seamless, but good enough.

@MadAussieBloke

Potentially paying extra, but that would put the NX in a bad position from the start if they are trying to push $70-80 games while Sony/Microsoft and Steam all charge $60. And let's be honest, with tablets, phones, and Steam the $60 model seems really high right now and hard to support long term.

32 GB just doesn't seem big enough for a new gen home console game.

Makes sense to go with carts, when there are SD cards can hold 500+ GB compared to blu-ray at around 50 GB. So the potential for 10x the storage for games. Also keep in mind that the game makers get the physical media for less than retail.

@gcunit 1) Game development itself is cheaper, we don't have big detailed 1080p AAA games running on the 3DS. 2) 3DS game cards don't have the same capacity as Wii U optical discs. If you scale the capacity up, the cards would be a lot more expensive. You can't really compare the two. Running home console games on game cards is a completely different story.

@gcunit Oh I see, well that's at least more feasible than the real ''hybrid'' ideas some people have. However, as I said, cartridges aren't a viable option for home console games. Either way, it would be unnecessarily expensive.

@john48062

Less than retail but still at a signficantly higher expense than Blu Ray discs. I mean assume they can get their carts at $5 each and assuming the NX sells better than the Wii U (less say 50 million software units a year over 5 years). This would mean they are adding $1.3 billion in cost to the project. Assuming you think faster load times will drive consumer demand (I don't), and that Nintendo makes approximately $20 per game in profit. You would have to sell 65 million more copies of software to make up for that cost.

For a company focused on profit, that seems unlikely that they would add so much cost to the process.

Oh man, if they brought back the good ol' cartridge that would be both hilarious and awesome at the same time. It will probably just be DS sized cartridges though.

Speaking of cost: Bulk high-quality 32GB SD cards could be as cheap as $4-5 (with 64GB being around $10). Bulk Blu-Ray disks (which have a memory limit [50GB or so]) are about $0.80-$1. Plus, the price of SD cards has been dropping steadily. So let's say cards would cost $4 more than disks. Sure, it would be slightly less convenient for the publishers and developers (of course, Nintendo needs to win them back, so...), but if we look at bulk optical drives vs bulk memory card readers, the difference is at least $40. So, you'd have to buy 10 games before the higher price of the carts equals the money saved by not having an optical drive. That would help get NXs into people's homes. This could be the difference between a $349 and a $299 console. Plus, solid-state/flash storage is way faster than disk-based storage, so that will help with performance too.

They'll use Amiibos as a access key for game

This is probably all hot air. Every console had some form of ROM in it, usually to store the OS. So if Macronix is expecting more profit in third and fourth quarter, due to Nintendo launching the NX in march, it will likely be because of the production of the NX itself, not because of cartridges. Otherwise there would be bigger profits all year round. Just my 2 cents.

This helps my theory, that games will be on carts and the system will be available in HD console and lower resolution handheld flavors. Carts would allow for save files to travel with the game.

If this is true, it just points to more obsession with insularity and control, which has hurt Nintendo far more than it has helped it, because it ultimately damages relationships with third parties. The ultraconservative suits on the board no doubt cling to doing business as usual, but guess what Nintendo, it's not 1989 anymore.

I dont see the problem. 99% of the time third parties release huge day 1 patches. Games dont exist on disc/cart any more.

They exist mostly on hard drives

@Grumblevolcano Did you not read the tweet from Bandai Namco that was posted on this site a couple of months ago?

They stated, 'NX is a HOME CONSOLE first and foremost'.

Yes, cartridges, please! Discs are so damn noisy.

With the ever dropping prices of SD storage cards, it is quite possible they could use those. You can now store over a 1TB on a singe card, for a relatively small price.

@MetaRyan

How many consumers buy 10 games for a system? I also think you underestimate the savings. I can buy 25 GB blu ray for $0.47 off amazon and a blu ray drive for $40. The rumor was for 32 GB sd cards, so this would be an equivalent and I'm not really sure how many Nintendo games have used 50 GB blu ray. I don't really know what media readers cost, but even if they are free, it's likely to cost Nintendo $20-30 per optical drive in a bulk purchase which would make saving $40 unlikely and with their focus on profits, they are likely to keep the savings rather than pass them onto the consumer.

Others have said it above, but how anyone can assume this means the NX is a handheld is beyond me. Hybrid of some sort sure, but pure handheld? Yeah, no. Not when they've left the Wii U for dead and have the next big Zelda coming to the NX as well.

But yeah, cartridges could be pretty rad in my opinion.

@gcunit Let me rephrase the question so you would understand: would the people (both consumers, and game developers) accept this change? The change in which Nintendo decides to omit disc-based media, and replace it with flash-based cartridges (like SD cards or Micro SD cards), despite the fact that this is still a rumor.

While I would love cartridges (size, speed and internal game saves), I highly doubt it.
Nintendo would shoot themselves in the foot if the carts were too expensive and/or too low capacity.

Both the N64 and Gamecube were hurt badly by their weird choice of media. Wii and Wii U were hurt by their low specs.
It's obvious that Nintendo always suffers when they cheap out and make their hardware weird.

i hope it's true

Yes please. Why are people here talking about 32 GB or bigger cards, when most of Nintendo's Wii U games are 1-5 GB?
Cards would also mean: no installing! This is a major disadvantage of the PS4 and Xbox One. One thing that always differentiated console from PC gameing was that you can just start playing without installing.

@gcunit Do you understand me, NOW?

NX will be a first party only console and the entire back catalog of games will be released on SD cards to fill in the gaps between major releases. So in November you walk into Walmart for the newest Mario NX release then each week in December you walk into Walmart and purchase a physical copy on flash media of super metroid, next week Ocarina of Time etc. All with the old school box art in a smaller 3ds/Vita sized case. This way Nintendo can cater to retro gamers, collector's, people who just want physical media. If you want it digitally you can have it that way too if you need the latest and greatest here is this month's AAA Nintendo NX game. They could even bundle Super Metroid with a Ridley amiibo or something like a Majora's Mask with a skull kid amiibo to spike interest in the physical release of retro games. You missed out on that Ness amiibo here is Earthbound this month bundled with the Ness amiibo. You say you like to play these games with the original controllers? Wii at Nintendo love to make big profits off of selling controllers so we can sell you the retro controller DIRECTLY from our Nintendo website with that quality Nintendo feel only now with a USB port that works with your NX console. What is that you say? You never owned a Wii U but wanted to play splatoon. Here you go we are launching splatoon during everybody's mid- July release lull for $35 on a SD card playable on your NX console or NX hand held device. Limited editions of this game will come bundled with an octoling amiibo. You are a casual gamer who does not want to spend $199 on our newest console? Perhaps we can entice you too by releasing these mobile games for your Android or iOS device. Wii at Nintendo just want your money.

@cleveland124 128gb is around 5£ on ebay

"There's also the fact that the removal of an optical drive would reduce the manufacturing cost of each NX console (...)"

So the NX might be 5-8 US$ cheaper to manufacture, but each game will cost 2-3 US$ more to manufacture, leading to lower software margins than on GCN, Wii, and Wii U?

Um, cartridges for handhelds? Why not.
Cartridges for home consoles? Why, period.

Awesome can't wait

Don't like the noice of the rather loud optical laptop drive in Wii/Wii U, a more quiet console would be nice.

Makes sense, considering carts are more durable and the data size restrictions of yesteryear are pretty much gone now.

Hmm, carts that work on both the handheld and home system that have specific code for each iteration sure starts to sound more and more plausible.

I'm not quite sure I understand all I've read in the article about ROM chips and the such, but does the fact that they might be using these new carts really hint at a disc-less system?

Perhaps it's a proprietary memory card or something? Maybe you can now upgrade your system's internal memory?

Either way I don't mind, so long as they're still releasing games in boxes so I can pick them up in years to come. Totally digital would be commercial suicide, I feel.

chip storage >>> magnetic storage > optical storage

I also would like every people who fear the size limitation to realize that nearly all of the Wii U library could fit on 16 GB carts, and most of it on 8 GB carts. This is comparable to the size made available on our good old 3DS. Don't get fooled by the d1ck-contest currently happening on PS4 and One, not every game needs to be 30+ GB. Actually, even on PC, most publishers know they need to keep the size down, otherwise, people won't bother downloading the games.

Things would be even easier if everyone could work like Shinen Media and their very impressive Fast Racing Neo, weighing about 700MB

I hope they let us copy the contents of the cart onto the system's hard drive.

I think these high capacity cartridges are meant for 'The Newer 3DS'.

Makes sense. Less moving parts, etc. I expect that all software will still be distributed as download if desired.

System could still be two-in-one if the gamepad controller has a cart slot, just put your game in there for on-the-go play.

It is inevitable that all consoles will only support downloaded games in the future. Physical medium is dying. All the gaming retailer should really start selling their business now.

be realistic, it's to be digital only

Oh! And while we are at it, why not have both carts and optical discs? Imagine a console that runs games from its HDD/SSD, from carts and from discs all three at once.

Having an OD drive would make sense for large games and for retro with Wii U (and Wii? (and Gamecube??)) games.
Carts would be perfect for games less than 16 GB in size.

And let's go crazy and imagine a cart format similar to the one of the 3DS. This would allow the new home console to play DS and 3DS games (emulation could be easy depending on the hardware of the console, and if it's not possible, integrating the hardware of the 3DS directly would not be that expansive, GBPlayer-style), which would give even more sense to that rumor about a new touchscreen controller.

Even without the "crazy" part, having both carts and OD still opens a lot of new options. It would make it possible to have a fast and quiet system again, and it would also offer OD for people who want to stay in the past

@abbyhitter Why have the game on a cart and then copy it on a slow HDD? Doesn't make sense.

Also, this would allow you to install the game and sell the cart.

@abe_hikura because we don't have SD cards bigger than 8 gb in the year 2016. lol

@Kroko PS4 lets you dump the disc onto a hard drive

@abe_hikura haven you seen 64 and 128GB usb flash drives?
you can find now 200GB micro sd cards now (very expesive but they exist)

You can buy a 32GB USB drive, smaller than a 3DS cart for 7€.
If they mas produce them they will very cheap.
Imagine the posibilities:
Any updates for the games will be installed on the game´s memory cards.

The way I see it going to Memory cards (or flash card) is the way to go.

I dont like the digital only idea and cd/dvd/bluray dont make sense anymore

Makes total sense! Memory cards are so much cheaper these days, averaging $10-$15 but that includes additional costs such as packaging, marketing, etc. Games are getting bigger and large capacity discs are not that cheap to produce. Shadow or Mordor on my PC takes over 60GB of space which is beyond the capacity of a dual-layer blu-ray. Sure you can get that on a disc but only after stripping out high quality textures. If you don't strip out content you would need a 100GB disc. A writable of that size disc costs $50 on average. A pressed disc of the same size would be cheaper but I bet it is still many times more expensive than a single layer blu-ray. Producing memory for carts in mass quantities for proprietary use would be cheaper. You could even add writable memory for updates and DLC. Also, back in the cartridge days, developers would add extra hardware in the cart to produce better graphics, sound, speed, etc. Carts were not much different in price than the game discs of Playstation, SegaCD, TG16, etc. of the time. Don't forget, the 3DS and PSVita use carts and are still profitable for games that sell for $40.

It would be even better if the possible chips had extra blank storage so DLC could actually be saved to the game and not stored on the console..Just a thought

@elstif I completely agree on this one. I'm surprised that the tradition disc hasn't been replaced already.

A quick search online can get you a 128gb SD Card for about $10. That is to the public. Imagine what a company like Nintendo could get them for.

My issue would be keeping up with the little thing if it was required to be inserted to play.

Yes, this is an indication that the NX will use flash memory for their games, as many suspected. The 32nm fabrication is the most commonly used chip manufacturing process right now, with 16nm being the next gen of PC hardware due out later this year. So we can rest assured that the NX specs will at least compete with the PS4, if not outperform it!

For those saying carts would have trouble storing today's games... Keep in mind that 32 GB SD cards are very common and cheap nowadays, often selling for $10 or less. Not to mention, Nintendo historically has received wholesale discounts from their chip manufacturers (because they have partial ownership of the plants themselves), so it would be even more feasible to easily mass produce 32GB or higher cards... Even 64 GB would probably not cost too much more for when they need them. Technological advancements have obsoleted the N64 era problem of carts being significantly more expensive to manufacture than discs.

Also keep in mind that ROM = read only memory, so it can't be rewritten, and they'll probably come up with some proprietary copy protection. (Not like that will stop hackers from eventually cracking them... )

@fortius54 Yeah, but 128 GB SD for $10 is either due to big sales, or due to crappy quality chips.

@Grumblevolcano If anything, Nintendo would be insane to keep using discs for NX. They're way too slow to read the massive amount of data used nowadays; they can't come anywhere remotely close to keeping up with modern solid state storage. Discs are so '90s/'00s.

Yes, please carts! I hate optical discs with a passion, you almost have to handle them with gloves and tweezers, and the noise the drive does is really annoying. Considering how fast the price of memories fall (I still remember when I bought my first 16 MB card, yes, megabytes, and later a 512 MB card more expensive than any current 128 GB card) I think it would be a good choice at this point. And handling and collecting carts is way cooler.

If the NX uses discs but has enough storage I'll go digital instead. What would be amazing is if you could buy digital games as NFC collectible cards or even amiibos. Mmm, well, my pocket says no.

@elstif go ahead an put an Wii U game on a USB flash drive, lets see how long it lasts .

The issue I see is that it cant be a "simple" SD card, it will have to be something Propriety (like the Vita's cards) that means special manufacturing, it means that third parties cant use their usual printing partners and would increase the cost (for a while).

Not sayings discs should stay; the mandatory installs on the X1 and PS4 show a very clear bottleneck or that the NX should be digital only (though that's basically steam).

Man we need some NX details, frankly right now just knowing the shape would do

This comment is for the people who can't read.the system will be leaving disc.hmm I didn't know the 3ds play disc

@Grumblevolcano lol really you didn't read at all.3ds are carts.lol it also said they will be leaving disc for the next system. Right there said carts are coming back to home consoles.besides that 3ds don't play dics

@cleveland124 Except that $9 is the consumer price, the manufacturer's price is exponentially lower... And don't forget that the Blu-Ray technology is partially owned by Sony, so royalties are charged to anyone who orders presses. Meanwhile, Nintendo has historically held partial ownership of the chip/circuit board plants that specifically work on their products, and provides Nintendo with their own wholesaler's cost. So the cost for solid state instead of some 50 GB+ proprietary discs or dual layer Blu Rays may actually be fairly competitive in their case. Not to mention it encourages further business in solid state storage elsewhere, which is a better move overall for the current storage market.

well a quick amazon search pulls up various prices for 64GB SD cards starting at around 20 bucks for the well known brands. You can assume that manufacturing those are probably a fourth of the price if that. Nintendo removing optical definitely liberates a considerable amount of space.

On the PCB

the console housing(it can be smaller)

internal arrangement of components

Leaves room for more ROM chips to beef up the NX

airflow could be better leading to a cooler system, thus also leading to a lower power consumption level

I know there are cons but I like pros better haha

I would love carts to come back. At least they can't get scratched and stop working like disc's.

Wasn't a similar rumor to this already reported on before?

The smart money is on the NX being a handheld (or tablet?) that can beam its display onto televisions for TV-based play. Think of a box that has the features of both the PS Vita and PlayStation TV, but Nintendo.

If the NX is a handheld consider my interests lost. I get the appeal of handheld gaming it's just not for me.

Carts are so much better than discs and I hope they do come back. Discs are a dying, outdated tech that carts really need to replace.

As for people clamouring about cart costs, do you spend an arm and a leg on 3DS games? No. The cost to produce those carts would have also dropped as well.

Disregarding the fact we still have zero intel on what the NX could or might be, I'd totally be cool with small carts for a console/handheld/hybrid thingy. With SD cards ranging in capacity all the way up to 2TB commercially - and considering how cheap it is to mass produce them now - this would be not only a semi-throwback but also a cost-effective and actually decent idea. Still not sure what to think about this, though. However, the possibility of such is quite interesting, indeed.

I can definitely understand why Nintendo would be looking for an alternative. Take the Xbox One for example. The discs are just a delivery method. When you pop in a game, the system copies the game to the hard drive and runs from there, not the disc, because the blu ray read speeds are too slow. Even with backwards compatible games, the console just downloads a digital copy and plays that.

@Steel76 I've had to replace the pin connectors on my consoles over the years and the batteries in my cartridges... definitely not a "forever" tech

I'm all for a cart as long as it doesn't require a battery to keep the save data. No physical media = no buy for me.

@WesterHive

Flash memory/carts hold up a lot better than magnetic carts. Not calling it "forever" tech either, but it'll be much longer before those wear out. I have older GBA games with dead batteries, but newer ones that chug along just fine (GBA switched to flash memory for its cart partway through its lifecycle).

If so I will be very disappointed. I like a physical collection of games not a digital one... what will happen in years when they move on? all those digital games will be lost... at least with physical games they are there to play years and years after the console has ended game development and moved on to newer consoles.

cartridges are the best, i will burn a candle for their comeback

I have no problem with carts. Nintendo just needs to make them big enough, Wii U has 25gig space and Ps4 has about 50gig, so it needs to be high and cost effective in order for this to work, But I'm all for it!

I don't know why people thought they would make an "all digital" console. Anyone who's anyone should know better than that. It was an illogical assumption based on the supposed removal of discs, as if there were no other options.

This is a good move IMO if this is true and I can see the overall plan starting to take shape.

NX may be a home console, but, I'm guessing their next handheld will play the same games scaled down. Why else would they switch to cartridges for a home console?

This is exciting stuff...

It would be interesting to see a return to cartridges in some form.

Yes this will be great. Memory cartridge nowadays could hold up to at least 64GB and soon 128GB and 512GB maybe in the works too. If Nintendo is looking to go back to cartridge with optical media similar to the PS Vita and 3DS for NX then I say this is the way to go. If they truly do go this route though then that means that the NX may not be as powerful as PS4 and Xbox One at all as those disc format are way above any cartridge optical media. Storage and RAM aside you still need more space to render graphics to modern definition as well as other things like special effects, sound and music samples, and extra contents.

@Steel76 Yeah, but the fact of the matter is that if Nintendo does do this, they'll also be shouldering the GARGANTUAN task of POPULARIZING the idea, in an age where all third parties and other console makers still rely on disks.

There's also the issue of whether or not the carts will be much more expensive to produce/use and whether or not they can be designed to hold as much as a CD at a similarly low cost.

Then there's also the consumer to think about; if the cart is too big, where are they gonna store it?

CD's are convenient not just due to storage size making them easier to package in a neat little CD holder, but also due to ease-of-development; most game makers are set up to use CD's in their game-making efforts, not carts.
They also cost far less at the moment.

I dunno, it just seems like re-popularizing carts for home consoles is going to be a tough sell for Nintendo, if this proves true.

@Hikingguy That's just one more reason why I love the quick-start menu of the Wii U.

@FullbringIchigo they are most likely going to have absolutely everything they release as a streaming based experience (new as well as old games) where you are also given the option to buy the game physically at some point or at its official release.
this is all good and fine, but I'm still waiting for something more impressive: better games, better experiences, something I find they've been lacking since the N64 days. I don't like the direction they've taken any of their IP since the Gamecube.

Please have a 3DS slot! Please have a 3DS slot! PLEASE HAVE A 3DS SLOT!!

As much as Nintendo keeps trying to dodge the topic of a cross portable/home console, the evidence keeps speaking for itself-- even the rumors keep speaking for themselves. But I shall continue to wait patiently for Nintendo to tell me "what" the NX will be.

I'm fully prepared for a digital-only Nintendo future, but I would really love this!

Everyone keeps saying how much more memory cartridges have nowadays so why not, I´m OK with that.

Hey, it worked for N64 vs. Playstation --

Actually, the notion of returning to cartridges for a home console is a fascinating possibility. The possible 32 GB limit is terrifying to 3rd party support to someone who was around during the aforementioned battle.

Augmented with a portion of the game being installed on the device via download or other means (maybe a two cartridges for big games were you install a portion on the internal memory. It lives there but still needs the cartridge?)

I don't know. It's facinating. If I can, I will want a big hard drive and just install everything, but the cartridge as a delivery method and a way to take most games portable (without a big attached hard drive) seems like good positives.

How do you compete with dirt cheap discs in price though? Hmm...

Flash based memory can hold more media, it loads faster, it' more durable, it takes up less shelf space and is more portable, it doesn't require an expensive optical drive, it can be made write-able for patches and DLC. The only downfall is it may be a bit more expensive to produce, but costs have really come down in recent years. I really like the idea.

I'm starting to wonder if the NX will be something like a fully realized vision of what the 64DD was supposed to be - gaming with hugely re-writable elements, complete with cards in place of optical or floppy disks. Hmm.

This is potentially great news. Little or no loading times, game saves on the cart itself, and no more real problems reading games. They may even (hopefully) release an external optical disc drive for backwards compatibility.

Carts would be cool! Download-based only, not so cool.

@PlywoodStick

Nobody knows what discounts Nintendo gets, but I suspect it's much less than you think. At the very least on the consumer level, it looks to be 2,500% more expensive for me to use SD storage instead of Blu Ray storage. I doubt Nintendo's cost is 1:1. And the Wii U didn't have Blu Ray playback and used modified Blu Ray discs to avoid licensing fees. I can't find any evidence that Nintendo right now is paying Blu Ray fees.

@fungusar

That's still more than 2,000% the price of a Blu Ray. You only do something like that if you can pass along the price (I don't think they can) or it will massively increase sales (and I don't think it will PS1/PS2).

Cartridges would only make sense if this were a handheld of some kind. Otherwise, this is insane.

I would love to see Nintendo go back to cartridges. There's just something strangely satisfying about seeing your collection of carts and slotting one into the machine with a light click. Holding your games in hand without the chance that you scratch them. Discs break, scratch, and are overall just more fragile. I saw a video where someone exposed NES carts to the elements: snow, dropping from a large height, hammering the cartridge, dropping it in water, etc. and it turned out exactly as you would expect: totally fine. If this rumor (which is more of just logical consequence) is to be believed, then I think it does NOT show that the NX will be a handheld.

Think logically here, people. Nintendo has a commercially-failing (but highly under-appreciated) home console, that will have more than served its console lifespan upon the release of the NX in March 2017. The Nintendo 3DS is wildly successful and has kept Nintendo profitable, or at least closer to breaking even, even when the Wii U was failing. It also just got a new model last year that has been sadly under-utilized, but still sold well.

Let me re-iterate: the 3DS has sold very well, has a huge install base, and just got a new, more powerful version that still has a lot of potential. The Wii U has not sold very well, has a minuscule install base, and is still behind last-generation's hardware in the processing department. Yet somehow it makes more sense for Nintendo to replace the 3DS with a new handheld (confirmed as being strong enough to run Zelda U, I might add) and keep the Wii U in production? It makes more sense that: A. The apparent logical consequence of this announcement is different than the actual meaning of the announcement and we're all jumping to unreasonable conclusions: B. The chips are for the Nintendo 3DS or the internal storage of the NX: C. The NX, a home console, is going back to cartridges for nostalgia, or as a marketing technique, or because of cheaper cost, or maybe even because the new CEO likes them better.

NX is a home console that may or may not use cartridges and may or may not have something to do with portable gameplay. It's too early to make assumptions.

@cleveland124 As Yorumi says, though, rewritable media is more expensive than read only media to produce, and the only ones who have reliable metrics on the cost ratio between ROM and non-volatile flash NAND are the manufacturers. It could be only a fraction of the cost for the ROM chips, and there could be other behind the scenes cost reductions. (Such as smaller packaging/less space needed for bulk shipments)

And besides, where are you seeing rewritable Blu Rays for only 50¢ each? I've seen BD-R discs for 50¢ each in 10 packs, but those aren't rewritable discs, so they're not directly comparable to flash memory.

The best deal I can find online for BD-RE discs is about $3 for a two pack of 25 GB discs, or or about $21 for a five pack of 50 GB discs. So that's $1.50 for each 25 GB disc (not 50¢), or $4.20 for each 50 GB disc. Which means that a 32 GB SD card is close to 6 times the cost of a 25 GB BD-RE, and a 64 GB SD card (about $20) is close to 5 times the cost of a 50 GB BD-RE.

Mind, that's all consumer level pricing, which doesn't apply to the manufacturers, but it's nowhere near 25 times the cost between rewritable discs and flash cards these days. Not to mention, BD-ROM and BD-RE drives are usually still $50+ each, and are far less common than $5-20 multi card readers, which are just about everywhere these days.

The NX's cost can be slashed by at least $20 (the closer price for a proprietary optical drive- replacement Wii U drives sell for about $30) just by getting rid of that optical drive, and the whole device can be made more sleek. Some weight also gets trimmed on each unit, leading to reduced shipping costs. The pros far outweigh the con's.

I hope this is true. I hate downloading games and I hate having to clear space in my HDD for new games. I'll take SD cards any day!

I would not mind this at all , Nintendo always did things differently.

cards would be SO much better. disc loading sucks. also the optical drive makes the console that much bigger, over half of the wii u is just the disc drive. portable NX system can also share the same media, flash storage is surely the future!

@happylittlepigs

At the same time, however, it's going to make it more difficult for third-party developers. I have a huge love for oldschool gaming(I mean, look at my logo and name lol). But I just can't see a cartridge-based video game system doing that well(I'm talking in marketing keep in mind). I have no doubt that the system would have a lot of games to enjoy, but most are not going to be interesting.

@Yorumi
Sorry.
When I think carts, I think way back to the N64 days; to me, 3DS games are just tiny little chips, rather than full-sized game carts.
I know that both are basically cartridges, but it just doesn't FEEL the same, ya know?
I guess it just comes from the era of gaming I grew up in...

Oh if only it were true. T'would be, t'would be.... TWERRIFIC!

@Grumblevolcano
Carts offer so many benefits over discs, it would be insane not for them to go back to carts.

@Grumblevolcano
Carts offer so many benefits over discs, it would be insane not for them to go back to carts.

@PlywoodStick

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00DUHUPCS/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1462537967&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=blu+ray+r

Here is bluray-r for $0.42 a disc. Probably cheaper ones out there but I typically use Amazon for comparisons. I don't think rewritables are a good compare because the system will still need a large hard drive for game updates and dlc unless you are saying the carts will have a bunch of space for these items raising the cost significantly and still not solving direct download games. Plus you are talking rom sd cards.

Here is a bluray drive for $40.49 which to your point is consumer prices so I'm sure Nintendo would pay less.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00FZK00CI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1462538260&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=panasonic+uj160&dpPl=1&dpID=51gWcHMsjJL&ref=plSrch

My point is I know there are benefits, but the accepted methodolgy is to copy discs to hard drive to get the same benefits. Yes SD cards are faster than hard drives but not enough to matter to consumers to pay more for media. Would the Wii U have been a success with carts?

Your argument seems to be that Nintendo can save money on the system which they will pass onto consumers. But Nintendo will pay more on each game but won't pass that onto consumers? I don't follow that logic. Increasing media costs would also seem counterintuitive to getting 3rd parties onboard as well.

So much better... if NX uses cartridges, it already beats the competition with these outdated discs and all its associated problems like scratches, problems with lasers, lack of space etc.

@cleveland124 BD-R discs are not rewritable, BD-RE discs are. Since BD-R discs are not rewritable, they're not directly comparable in function to flash cards. And again, no good public metrics available on the comparison for ROM cards vs write once discs, so we can't say anything definitive about that.

The NX will most likely not use a built in hard drive, but rather onboard flash memory, much like it's predecessors, the Wii and Wii U. So the "accepted methodology" most likely won't apply. And it's not the same benefits- modern Class 10 SDHC or SDXC cards smoke HDD's in read speeds. They're not as fast as solid state drives, but flash cards beat HDD's in speed and lifespan.

A proprietary format of card commissioned by Nintendo would be expected to uphold that benchmark. No need for the inefficiency of requiring games to be installed to a HDD, as with the PS4 and XB1. (And of course, external drives could still be used.)

The Wii U used 2009/2010 technology, back before flash cards were as cheap, powerful, and plentiful as they are today. Their past limitations don't apply to NX.

Nintendo has passed on the added price of media to the consumer for cards/carts before. First party games on N64 carts were often $60 when they were new, while PS1/Saturn discs were often $30-50 when they were new. 3DS cards are often $40-50 new, up from the GBA carts and DS cards often being $25-35. And of course, it's been pretty rare for the big 3 console makers to put their digital offerings on significant sales from the retail price, since passing on the savings from no physical media to consumers would pose a possible chilling effect in the physical marketplace.

As long as Nintendo offers good enough compensation, they can convince third parties well enough. It's not the same situation as the 90's, when carts made for Nintendo systems were completely unfairly profitable in Nintendo's favor. There are other issues that are more pressing for third parties at this point. (Like marketing, online infrastructure, and visibility in Nintendo's marketplace.)

@PlywoodStick

We know any SD card solution will cost more than a Blu disc and more than DL games. The only thing not known is the exact magnitude.

I just can't see a small flash solution on the NX being a good solution. And if they do a USB hard drive add-on will again be necessary with the NX increasing the consumer cost and making a laughable comparison to the XB1 and PS4.

I'll ask again, how are quicker load times going to revolutionize the market? Sure 10 seconds of less load time is great, but why would people pay more for it? And if the game is patched or DLC released, all that benefit is lost because they will have to save that info to a hard drive. If I save $50 on the console to pay $10 more per game I view that as a consumer loss.

When has Nintendo ever provided good enough compensation to 3rd parties? They will only develop for the NX if it successful.

@cleveland124 There are plenty of people who have spent hundreds of dollars to have solid state drives, just to have faster loading and boot times for their computers, even though HDD's would suffice. I'm confident that there will also be plenty of people willing to pay for cards over discs. It's not the same as being fleeced by $10 day 1 DLC or the like, it's a genuine upgrade.

How are faster load times a revolution? Try playing the Witcher 3 on a PS4, with it's over 30 second load times after every single instance one dies, and even over 1 minute load times in certain places! Then try playing the game on a PC with a solid state drive and merely 5 to 10 second load times after death. The NX using cards would be somewhere in between there, skewed towards the SSD's numbers. I'm sure that most people would be more than willing to spend extra money to not have to wait 30-60 (not just 10) seconds every time they died in a big new game like that.

The NX's flash memory will be able to hold game patches and DLC instead of a hard drive, that's what Nintendo does now with the Wii U. (Remember the Skyward Sword patch on the Wii's Shop Channel? Even the Wii could do it!) Lacking a hard drive doesn't prevent that, since the system's flash memory can just load that onto a run game at boot. Nothing would be lost.

Nintendo figured out how to compensate 3rd parties well enough during the Gamecube days, as evidenced by it's many multiplatform titles. I'm sure that if Nintendo doesn't impose austerity upon themselves in the marketing department like they did with the Wii U, and actually puts honest to God effort into it, like they did 15 years ago, then 3rd parties will be willing to come back.

@Grumblevolcano Not really, since they wouldn't use big bulky carts. Most likely something similar to the 3ds game card. Also the NX is rumored to be some sort of hybrid though some rumors said it would be two parts a console and a handheld to release separately.

@Dakt I actually think it could primarily home console if it fully utilised portable wi-fi. I've used it in the past and it can connect anywhere you go. Leave the console on sleep on the handhold can always be connected.