Wii U Enjoyed Its Best Ever Month of US Sales in December, With Yearly Results Beating 2013

Can't wait to see how the X1/PS4 fanboys try to turn this into a negative." It may be it's best year, but that's not saying much lol considering it's previously". Those guys bug me to no end. It literally kills them to say something nice about Nintendo WiiU whike there are plenty if good things to say, and plenty of bad to say about the others too.

Well I contributed to the amiibo sales alright. LOL. Good job Big N.

To me the big year is 2015. Xeno X, Zelda and Splatoon? My wallet is ready.

I got little Mac next will be ike or toad( or both if I can find them)

@Nintendo69 Remember that it is not manly to play Wii U because it actually has finished great and fun games.

xD

Good job Nintendo!

Having owned every nintendo device except a virtual boy, wii-u and 3ds are the 2 systems I've been most pleased with as a whole, the software is just BEYOND!

@Hy8ogen No, no it's not. You THINK it is, but it's really not lol...

Glad to see Nintendo doing very well in 2014, I'm pretty sure this year will be another nice year for Nintendo.

@umegames Ya know I feel the exact same way. Owned every Nintendo console ever made except for Virtual Boy and Gameboy Color, and I too feel most satisfied with the Wii U and 3DS. It's definitely the software. Quality has taken a huge leap this generation. Of course, past generations had legendary games as well, but it seems the rate at which the "awesome, amazing, must-play-right-now" games are coming is two-fold at the least. By the end of 2015, Wii U will have a better top-tier library than the entire Wii catalog. Or GameCube. Or N64. It's just ridiculous- it's like every game that comes out is the best in the series nowadays, or a completely new game that's just as good as the rest

@JaxonH I feel the same, everything is so polished. Even Capt Toad is a nice surprise.

Xeno+Zelda+Star fox in the same year?!?! Throw a Metroid there for 2016 and -_-

@JaxonH you hit the nail on the head. Obviously we have revolutionary classics of all mascots across the generations, but you're right, not single nintendo game so far has felt like a let down for me, except for kirby triple deluxe & maybe new yoshis island, though it was exceptionally better imo than yoshi DS. I have no reason to believe Nintendos' titles for 2015 will be disappointment.

@umegames Ah man, a new Xenoblade, a new Fire Emblem, a new Zelda, a new Star Fox, a new Yoshi that actually looks AMAZING, a new Kirby sequel to the actual best Kirby game on the DS, a Mario level editor, a cross-buy Mario vs DK, Splatoon!!!!!, a Majora's Mask remake (after years of people asking for it, we're finally getting it!), a new IP from makers of Fire Emblem, with Amiibo support for FE characters, a Mario Party that actually looks fun to play for once, more Fire Emblem Amiibos, another choice 3rd party mature exclusive with Devi's Third, Xenoblade coming to 3DS, a new 3DS with a 2nd analog and extra shoulder buttons and head tracking 3D!, Wii VC with gamepad support for classic controller games, and most importantly...

A new MONSTER HUNTER!!!!

Yes, this very well could be the best year ever.

@JaxonH Oh god all the games you just listed and those damn figures who's wallet can be ready for that?

@Nintendo69
I love my Wii U unabashedly and my wife and kids do as well. It's not too hard a spin to get the negative here, however.

I'm glad Nintendo is doing some strong sales of software and I'm betting we are going to see decent profit this year. That, I believe, was Nintendo's number one goal as the intense cash bleed last fiscal year was alarming. It doesn't take much reading between the lines, however, to see that the worldwide Wii U and 3DS sales were disappointing to Nintendo and would look embarrassing enough that Nintendo suppressed them.

The story is: 3DS is a healthy environment to release games and two first party games did respectably well on the Wii U. Plus, people who were interested bought more than one amiibo.

Nice and all, but hardly exciting from a business perspective or even for anyone hoping for Nintendo to gain some ground against competing consoles and mobile devices.

To me, it says Nintendo is going to hang in there and give some more solid and fun games with the hardware they mismanaged. I'm okay with that and personally can't wait for several games.

@JasonH Don't forget the backlog of not-localized-yet Japanese games!

Where's my Bravely Second, Legend of Legacy, EO II Untold, and Yo-Kai Watch, Japan?!

@TheWPCTraveler Fatal Frame Black haired Maiden too, don't forget. That game should've been come to the west by now, unfortunately I'm not convinced it will at this point.

But ya, Bravely Second for sure, and Legend of Legacy. OH, and Puzzles and Dragons Z/SMB Edition. How could I forget about that one!

@midnafanboy Even my wallet tried to retreat, even mine... But I wouldn't let it. Gave it a good lickin and it's kept on tickin! It's gotta pull through for me, it's gotta! Wallet don't let me down, I need you right now more than ever!

It's nice to wake up reading a good news and the positivity of the comments. I love you guys!

I need a new Donkey Kong Country for 2015. Tropical Freeze was phenomenal.

From the article: "Nintendo's priority is surely to simply make it viable and profitable so that'll it'll last a 'generation'; think of the GameCube's relatively low sales that, nevertheless, helped the company maintain profits."

At least 2015 has some decent variety to the Wii U line-up, if not much in the way of quantity or third party support. I hope they can turn a profit and get more consoles moved, but there are some key differences between the Wii U and GameCube that will cut hard into them being profitable like they were with the Cube.

Lack of third party support means far lower revenue than they earned with the Cube, which maintained pretty strong third party support most of the generation. The Wii U is still selling slower than the GameCube, and game development costs are substantially higher than they were 14 years ago, meaning major titles need to sell a lot more to make back the equivalent profits Nintendo could garner with far lower sales on the Cube.

It's nice to see some positive news for the system, but their struggles are clearly not going to end any time soon. On top of that, the Xbox One looks poised to start a pricing war with Sony, and both consoles may indeed drop to a permanent $350 by March if this keeps up, which means a far harder time for Nintendo trying to sell a console filled with largely last-gen guts for almost the same price as these heavy hitters.

At least they had some good news.

Imagine how much better the Amiibo sales could've been had they not botched the supply lines.

Also, apparently the Xbox 360 surpassed the Wii in the US as the highest-selling console of the generation (again, in the US, where the X360 matters). A phenomenal accomplishment given the truly awful start that machine had.

So Wii U had its best month which had everything to do with Smash. Meanwhile PS4/One had double to triple the sales during the same period. They also produced far better overall software sales. In short, Wii U is still being pooped down on by everything else.

At least the Amiibo market is booing nicely. Really funny to see the toy sales eclipsing the game they were initially for. Good money grabbing scheme. Too bad they have been having trouble keeping up with supplies, though I guess it might also have benefited them. The fear of selling out has kept people actively seeking them out so they don't miss out on the next discontinued model.

Just give me some Metroid!

Pretty good news, though I have a feeling that the 3DS will miss it's target for the year by a significant margin.

The amiibo stock issues remind me of the Wii and it's first few months on the market. Nowhere near enough stock because they didn't expect it to take off after the GameCube. Then you couldn't find the system for months.

Oh wow, this is exactly the same situation as last year. Nintendo used exactly the same line then too. Of course December will be higher than any other month, and since they had MK8 and Smash this year, it's not really a big surprise that this December is greater than last December either. It's less than 600k, which in December, is again pretty awful, and what's more, pretty much confirms the Wii U is never going to reach Gamecube numbers.

I'm not saying this to troll. Personally it's pretty depressing for me. Nintendo made a console that in their mind was for the 'gamer's' and it' bombed hard and lost them a huge chunk of cash in the process. They were already moving further and further away from the Nintendo we knew growing up, and this is just pushing them further and further towards other markets, such as the Quality of Life stuff.

The one bit of news that is positive is that Captain Toad did 250k. Not a huge number in the market overall, but a far better debut month than most Wii U titles get. Shame about Bayonetta 2 though.

Wii u hardware can be low but the software ratio will be big. Tecmo was excepting to sell 500k of hyrule warriors and it will easily surpass the million in 2-3 months. I am curious about how much $/€ win Nintendo by selling an amiibo which is 13€ on stores.

@Peach64 Essentially when they stop making hardware in the home console market they won't go 3rd party - they will leave the industry.

@IceClimbers Agreed. Nintendo will never go 3rd party because it's too hard to make money. I don't even think they'll pull out of hardware, but they're just going to put less focus on the sort of people that grew up playing Mario and Zelda and more on the ones that bought a Wii and Wii Fit but nothing else, or a DS and Brain Training but nothing else.

@Peach64 I feel like they'd be better off by not selling that type of thing as a video game system. Just sell it as QoL stuff. Their handhelds of course will stick around so long as that market still exists (it's smaller than it was in the GBA days). Having Pokemon, Monster Hunter, and Yokai Watch as a trio certainly helps that market in Japan.

@umegames and those are just the games we know about. I'm sure will get some more surprise directs & reveals @ E3. But I love my wiiU and I havent even scratched the surface yet. My only retail games are smash wiiu & windwaker. I've been living in the eshop supporting these awesome indie developers that has stepped up with the lack of major 3rd party games. In the past 2months I brought shovel knight, steam world dig, stick it to the man, toki tori, edge, rush, nano assault, art of balance, x type+, abyss, armillo, paper monsters recut, puddle, kung fu rabbit, duck tales remastered, 99 moves, ping 1.5+, and just got teslagrad & chasing Aurora apart of the indie promotion. And theres still a bunch more I have in my wish list. And that list don't even include retail titles like Mario kart 8, wonderful 101, hyrule warriors, super Mario 3ds world etc. I'm exhausted, wiiU have really revitalize my love for gaming.

It's rather sad that most of those 2.5 million amiibo sales went straight to scalpers and nothing's being done about it. Fix your stock issues please!

So Nintendo is profitable, with margins high enough to continue course. That's $30mil worth of amiibo sold in the US in one month by the way, and probably a 30-40% profit margin for Nintendo. In other words, it just paid the bill for any of their current AAA games in production. Hell, it paid off the deficit from both Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2. Because toys.

That's important too here, because internet analysts like to spell doom and disappointment because Nintendo isn't "winning," or even doing as well as themselves in the past. But they're profitable, and making enough money to continue making worthwhile investments. That's why they're a business, that's why they've been a business for 125 years. Not because they're swimming in an Olympic pool filled with a few years worth of Wii/DS money.

@Robotron2084 "Sony, who tend to throw products out in bucket-loads irregardless if it'll sell or not ...; that's great for us consumers, but not great as a business decision"

Yeah, no kidding. I was just doing some research on smartphones and I got to the Xperia and am immediately confronted with this insanely huge list of models. They may as well have made a different form factor for every owner of a Sony Xperia! The Xperia Z3 is still a fantastic phone, arguably the best on the market now, but damn, they wonder why they're losing money in mobile lol.

The New new 3ds has to be played to be believed. Huge future for this little monster. Re-invents 3d gaming. Future looks bright alright.

The WiiU may no longer become a great success (and we know, the 2013 sales were surely low, so that the 25% rise is no great success either), but it's certainly nice to see that it's going upwards! With the amiibos now really gaining momentum and some more great titles coming (among them a few which will address audiences for which MK8 or SSB were not necessarily must buys), the year 2015 may continue the upwards-trend.

@prufessor_oak having loved tropical freeze, I'm in the same boat dude! Good thing for me is that I never played dk:returns on the wii and with that on the way I'll get another dk fix soon and to think I was one of the ones raging when they announced tropical freeze and not a metroid!!

I'm all for being a realist, but its sad to see negative comments on something that is actually decent news. Sure Wii U could have done better this holiday and didn't match the sales of it's competitors. There are a number of things I would have maybe done differently to be more aggressive this past holiday, but its easy for us to be a Monday Morning Quarterback when we don't know all of the intricate financial details they are faced with.

But the fact that it increased sales year to year is a good thing. Nintendo pumped out a number of critically acclaimed titles in 2014. We have a number of great titles heading our way this year. I'm very happy with my Wii U, and while I wish there were more of us owners out there, I am quite satisfied that these figures provide Nintendo with a level of profit margin and makes it a viable platform that they will continue to support over the next couple of years at least.

Given the public perception of the Wii U heading into 2014, I'm quite pleased at how it did. It could always have done better, but it also could have faired much worse.

So smash didn't save the wii u? Smh. Guess its officially in 3rd place now.

The sign of the improved sales for me was in this month's Game Informer magazine. Gamestop is offering an extra 20% for Wii U consoles. That tells me that either: They are seeing increased demand for the console, but don't have enough 'used' supply to undercut Nintendo on it. Or they are predicting an increased demand this year and don't have enough 'used' consoles to undercut Nintendo with.

Either way, I take it as a good sign that they are offering a bounty on the console right now.

@prufessor_oak I so, so agree with this one. Tropical freeze was insanely good.

@IceClimbers
Come on! Things aren't that bad.

@Robotron2084

"Oh, and yup, Nintendo definitely need to drop the price on the Wii U, even though 50 quid/dollars doesn't mean much to me if the system has the games I want to play, but it means a lot to many people in terms of perceived value."

That just isn't possible right now, at least as of April of last year. The Wii U is a break even console at the moment. If you drop the price you then lose money on each console sold.

Yes, you can make up the difference with games and things like amiibos (which is largely why they exist in the first place). The fact of the matter is, your typical family does not spend as much as we, the fans do. It can take years to recover that lost income. Will they have to drop the price? Of course, once parts become cheaper, but right now it isn't possible as it appears they just stopped the Wii U from hemmoraging.

@Robotron2084 I had a bit of an opposite situation with Sony. Their Vaio 13 hybrid laptop was infamous for its great hardware... but inexplicably awful network adapter made by Broadcom. It had all sorts of incompatibility issues with other components and most Vaio 13 owners were stuck with a $1300 brick with no wifi/bluetooth.

After about 8 months on the market with no solution, Sony sold off its PC division and Vaio became independently owned. Within days, there was a fix for the Broadcom adapter. Maybe a coincidence, but a funny one. I do love my Vaio though. At least, now that it has onboard wifi/bluetooth.

My only complaint about Nintendo's plans for 2015 is that there is absolutely no way I'm going to be able to afford all the stuff I want to buy . Some great games are going to have to go unplayed by me in favor of others because I simply cannot afford to spend that much cash. So games like Mario Party 10, Monster Hunter 4, and Kirby's Rainbow Curse are probably the likely cuts I have to make, and I definitely won't be picking up many (if any at all) amiibo, either. And it's unlikely I'll get a New 3DS until Christmas time, as well.

I really wish some of these games could have come out last year in the 1st half of the year when there was nothing but DKCTF on WiiU to play. Like Kirby or Yoshi's Woolly World would've been nice to have last year when WiiU had a very sparse lineup, rather than this year when the release schedule is jam packed with greatness.

@prufessor_oak Another DKC in 2015? I would "settle" on having the SNES trilogy in the eshop. A new Metroid or Luigi's Mansion from Retro Studios please.

Very good results. It was obvious that theyd have a strong december and holiday period and it's good thing they had. amiibo selling like crazy is a nice bonus too.

@MoonKnight7

They may need to go back to hemorrhaging if the XBO and (likely) PS4 price drop set new standards for the consoles. This is one of those things I think Nintendo plays too safe. They need to be aggressive in selling and marketing themselves, and that means taking risks, and they just aren't. Nintendo likes to be "risky" when it comes to making game hardware, but nowhere else. They need to be taking risks in marketing and pricing and in game designs. Essentially, where Nintendo takes risks is where Sony and MS play it safe, and where Sony and MS take risks is where Nintendo plays safe--and the sales illustrate how well this works out.

This also returns to my points on the importance of 3rd party support--the reason MS and Sony (in previous generations) were able to sell their consoles for such hefty losses was because they had third party support and handily made the money back on revenue from those. Nintendo is not making nearly as much revenue with only 1st and 2nd party games, and a handful over suspiciously low-priced indies. In no real way is a $2 game really benefiting Nintendo, especially given the quality of most of those $2 games.

@Robotron2084

I think the poor sales of the Wii U, and the fact that the 3DS can't yet use Amiibos, may be part of the reason they so heavily limited the stock. They may have been, as noted in the first half of this, playing overly safe, ultimately to their detriment, and worse, playing right into the hands of resellers, which is extremely unfair to their fans. It's almost like they don't do any market research at all--I mean, let's face it, collectibles are always a good for sales, and collectibles of popular and well-loved characters like Kirby, Marth, and the like are going to sell, even with the absurd numbers of badly manufactured products we've seen in this line. Hell, it took over a month for my girlfriend to track down the big 6" Bowser action figure (not amiibo) for my birthday. Thankfully, he now resides atop my receiver, hovering over Fry, Bender, and Leela.

Nintendo's sales may be pretty dismal these days (even with December's personal and likely temporary improvement), but let's face it, their characters are as popular among gamers as they've ever been. I'm sure there are people who don't own a Wii U who have purchased some of these just to have a Link or Samus figure on a shelf.

I don't think it's quite fair to say that Sony releases a ton of anything regardless of who'll buy it. I wouldn't think that to be a responsible manner of operating for any corporation, and I can't see Sony doing that all willy-nilly. No doubt, they are not producing Vitas in the number they're producing PS4's, for instance. There are a lot of accessories, for instance, that are still very hard to find, particularly the 32GB Vita memory cards, and the 64GB Vita memory cards were not even officially released outside of Japan. (I'm going to have to import one soon.)

@JaxonH - ""awesome, amazing, must-play-right-now""

From a pure quantity standpoint Wii U looks pretty good, but from a "Wow" standpoint Gamecube for me was a much better experience. Luigi's Mansion, Starfox Adventures, Star Wars Rouge Leader 2, Metroid Prime and Super Mario Sunshine were not only great games to play but they had that wow factor, all while being played on a lunchbox . N64 may have brought 3D to consoles but it was so blocky, Gamecube took it to a whole other level. Wii U games look great, especially compared to Wii, but I had a PS3 for 3 years beforehand. Gamecube led the way, Wii U is catching up.

@Grumblevolcano - I was going to make an eBay comment regarding those 2.5 mil amiibo

@Nintendo69 I am in love with Nintendo and I appreciate many Nintendo and non-Nintendo games. Though, I was also a business student and I'm an accountant. While I am happy that their sales have increased a little bit, it's still pretty sad to see the low sales figures. You don't have to be a fanboy to point out that going from supper awful sales to just awful sales isn't that great.

It's like that episode of Arrested Development when the company stock goes from "sell" to "don't buy." Sure it's an improvement! But it's still not that great.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4090395/AD_-_dont_buy.png

It looks as if Nintendo may drop the price and remove Wii BC compatibility as evidenced by their introduction of Wii digital games. What has caught my attention is the amount of amiibo sold. The suckers that bought these things will come to find them poor long term investments. I'm sure many consumers are looking at that permanent Xbox one price drop to 350 U.S. dollars, and Sony's likely response. I know I am.

@Robotron2084

Ha, well as a fellow old person with a life and responsibilities, I can share your sentiment with not having enough time. The Vita remains the only game system I've actually received as a gift (not counting the Dreamcast I got for free as I happened to know a guy who was either giving it away or throwing it away)--I bought all the others of my collection myself, including the Odyssey2 and Neo-Geo X. That said, I'm a collector, and regardless of my time, enjoy having these pieces of gaming history. I share your issue with the memory cards, which I view as the system's single biggest failure. Mine was an Amazon Walking Dead bundle which also came with three downloadable games--and 4GB memory card too small for all those games!

I think we could have a hefty debate on Sony overall, however I don't think they spread themselves too thin. Sony has pretty much always been a major consumer electronics company, and they're a very big company as we're all aware.

It's amazing to realize how instrumental they've been in the development of everything from in-home movie players (Sony's Beta losing to VHS), personal music players, CD players and technology, DVD and Blu-Ray development, and they were huge in cameras and totally dominated televisions for a long time.

In my personal, somewhat ignorant view, I think Sony's bigger problems lately have been external. Namely, Samsung, with Sharp, Panasonic, etc. Sony's stock in trade was typically this highest-end electronics, which were frequently the most expensive, the also the highest quality. Beta, for instance, was actually a much higher quality video tape over VHS, but couldn't hold as much information and were more expensive to develop. Believe it or not, while Beta lost the consumer war, they continued to be used within the entertainment industry for their quality and specific uses.

But I think Sony's biggest problems, over the last decade or so, have been lost market share coupled with some old-school hubris that they were almost untouchable. I would place the height of this hubris at revelation of the PS3's initial pricing. Samsung has seemingly come out of nowhere and is the most visible company eating away at Sony's former electronics dominance. The Samsung Galaxy is the Android phone that directly gave Apple a run for it's money, and has helped make Samsung one of the heaviest leaders in consumer electronics now. Sony's TVs are no longer the top-of-the-line as Samsung (again) and companies like Sharp and Panasonic feature equal-quality TVs for lower prices.

We, as gamers are generally focused on the gaming divisions of these companies. To Sony's credit, they have built up arguably the most powerful and visible brand in the last 20 years of gaming: Playstation (humorously, partially Nintendo's doing!). They screwed up a lot with the PS3 and it hurt them badly, but to more of their credit, they learned from their mistakes, humbled themselves, restructured and released a console destined to dominate this generation (in consoles).

I think Sony had similar problem with their standing in consumer electronics as Nintendo faces right now in gaming--a lot of lost market share, too much hubris and arrogance, and competitors making them look out of touch. After some, no doubt, painful and expensive moves (selling a billion-dollar office building, selling the Vaio division, internal restructuring), Sony appears to be leveling out right now, and the PS4's success is helping them rebuild confidence.

It's possible in Sony's eyes, that they do not want to risk not having enough product on store shelves--the opposite of what may be Nintendo's view, save money on production rather than produce enough to keep supplies in stock and actually make money. They clearly had little understanding in the value of Nintendo collectibles. The PS4 has clearly been designed to appeal to the widest gamer demographic, and as someone who was an X360 player last gen, I'm extremely impressed with the PS4 to the point that I bought one already (normally I buy the new Nintendo console first in a new generation and the next system sometime later, I bought my PS4 before it was a year old, which is very fast for me). It's fast, it's easy to use, the interface is brilliant and clean (the exact opposite of the PS3) and it has more developers working on it than the XBO and Wii U (not sure concerning Nintendo's somewhat messy indie support). Sony played very safe and smart with PS4 hardware, and it's paying off hugely.

Essentially, in at least this aspect, I think they learned from their mistakes.

Did they spread themselves too thin? Eh, maybe. Though maybe not anymore with the sale of the Viao division! I've had a love-hate relationship with the company over the years--the original PS1 was the first non-Nintendo hardware I ever bought. I'm not saying you're wrong, and this may be one of those issues where we both have valid points--spreading themselves too thin, losing touch with the market (while Samsung snatched it up), and the arrogance during the late PS2/early PS3 era.

I think Nintendo has this problem right now, in that they look like they've lost touch with the industry they helped create (I've previously made an analogy to Henry Ford basically inventing the auto industry, then being driven from it for losing touch with it after almost destroying his own company), there are other companies who are taking away their market share, there is an aloof arrogance about the company (Reggie ignorantly claiming higher value in the Wii U than competitors without actually understanding the value difference still irks me), and they may, indeed be spreading themselves too thin. They clearly have trouble maintaining two consoles on their own--and there's still the QoL platform looming on the horizon, and that's worrying. Sony and MS have shown that they can clearly learn from their mistakes--it's time for Nintendo to show the same.

Geez, this was long, I hope it was at least relatively easy to read.

@Peach64 see, that there is the problem. They bought Wii Fit, and NOTHING else... Or Brain Age, and NOTHING else. I really hope you're not correct on this, because if you are, we're gonna have a disappointing console next gen...

@Robotron2084

Indeed, I hope Nintendo is learning some hard lessons right now--it doesn't always seem like Iwata is actually learning these lessons, and he's delivered an awful lot of "promises" he hasn't followed through on. You know, the promise to step down if the Wii U continued to perform poorly, DS on Wii U, mergers and acquisitions, getting third parties back by "leading by example" (itself a misguided notion), etc.

I think Miyamoto is a problem too, but possibly not as much, as he seems to recognize the need for "new blood and concepts" in the company, hence the Splatoon team.

I also think this occasional hi-jacking to talk about non-Nintendo gaming is a helpful for a site like this, which is unfortunately over-populated by people wearing Nintendo blinders. I'm sure to some of them it feels like some kind of "rejection" or "betrayal" of Nintendo, but honestly, I just can't get all the experiences that I, as a "regular" gamer, really want in my gaming. If I could get Fallout 4 or Witcher III or Bloodborne on the Wii U, I'd have been more than happy to get them there. I supported Doom on Nintendo consoles as a kid, because DOOM! There's more to life than Mario and Zelda, and it's sad to see so many people who, quite literally, think the exact opposite. I don't expect or want everyone to think exactly like me, but no matter what we love, there's always more out there.

I think Nintendo will likely eek a profit by the close of this generation--probably on the strength of the 3DS, but then, I also never expected I'd see them struggle with losses as badly as they did. But I also think they'll be at another "we really need to change how we're doing things or we're screwed" mentality at the end of this generation, same with the end of the GameCube.

I have to say, I'm jealous of your Vectrex. I don't think I've even seen one in real life. I'm never really sure what my best "find" is, but my 3DO came with it's box, and the original receipts in the box from when it was purchased new, and my Odyssey2 came complete with it's box and pack-in pamphlets.

Oh wait, my Milton Bradley Microvision. That's one of my favorites. The first CPU-based portable console with interchangeable game cartridges. I have most of the games for that system, and all of them are in their boxes.

@Platypus101 I feel they're already going that route with 3DS, 2 key announcements in this week's Direct show the approach of trying to get the casual players back. These of course are Puzzle & Dragons and Pokémon Shuffle, both are the kind of games you'd expect to be on a smartphone not a 3DS. The former is a very popular smartphone game series and the latter is pretty much a Candy Crush clone.

This is of course a main reason why the Direct was infact a significant disappointment for me.

@Robotron2084

I agree with you concerning "every game on every platform." I actually have two stances on this, depending on the industry.

1. If every game is everywhere, we should be moving towards a unified console format that combines the concepts behind DVD players and Set-top boxes: One basic OS concept (and generational hardware standard, with the "base" upgraded every 5 years by a central organization, like the ESA in the US), every physical game plays on all machines, and every publisher who wants to have one, can have their own digital shop on the machine. Anyone can make the console, and anyone can make their own peripherals or controllers--much like the Android system now. (I think we may be heading this way, and that it may be necessary.) All games scaleable in order to support varying hardware of power and price points.

2. If we aren't going to have a unified platform (as now, with dedicated machines), then exclusives are extremely important for the value of a console, as well as a robust library of 3rd party offerings.

The collector in me prefers the second option, but the rationalist and developer in me (I am part of an indie team) wants the first option so it's easier to reach a larger audience, but we need to fix the general anarchy that rules the iOS App Store or Google Play.

What Nintendo did and is doing with Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third is a good idea, but a little risky, I think, as they are actively funding these games, so they have a high financial risk. I think they should continue with that--as it's important like you said, but also have another tier where they organize contracts with third parties for exclusive games the way MS and Sony do. Like, Sony has Street Fighter V as an exclusive, and MS has Titanfall (well, the first one) as an exclusive. They aren't necessarily funding these games, but helping in many ways to make that exclusivity worthwhile.

And yeah, importing does seem to take some of the fun out of it. But I think that might be my only option for one day getting a ZX Spectrum. I already have 4 games for it--one of them is Mario Bros.! I prefer garage sale or thrift store finds, but there are some crappy thrift stores around me that seem to think they can charge "antique store" prices for old games. Man, screw those guys.

@Robotron2084

Ha, I know the unified console format sounds scary at first--the knee-jerk reaction I usually get is "MONOPOLY," but Android doesn't have a monopoly--though it does have a quality control problem, as does iOS.

I started thinking about this after wondering if the industry could ever crash again, and realized that gaming, now, has "Hollywood budgets, but without the Hollywood audience." I see this as a recipe for disaster, and I think different dedicated machines cuts heavily into this. It takes time to make a game, then more time and money porting it to multiple platforms for the widest reach, and having to ensure that it meets everyone's standards on each platform. I was a tester at Activision one year, and the amount of detail that goes into the different operating standards of MS, Sony, and Nintendo is daunting. It concerns basic operation, error handling, terminology, even how loading times or screens should work. It's ridiculous.

But contrast with the DVD market. Anyone can make a DVD player and when a consumer buys any DVD player, and it'll play every DVD out there--even more for Blu-Ray as region-specific lockouts are largely going away. Set-top boxes generally have a huge variety of services--Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Crackle, Fuse, Vimeo, etc. The same thing is true of music players--CD's play on all CD players, MP3's play on pretty much all digital music players, and these allow the markets to be HUGE. There is an enormous consumer base for these things.

I like the idea of a unified console where MS, Sony, and Nintendo, and maybe EA-Origin, Activision, and some other major publishers have their own shops on the box. If Nintendo wants to make a wacky new controller, they still can, but the cost of entry then goes from $300 for that one console to, say, $60 extra for the unique controller.

Then the major publishers vie for the best games to feature exclusively in their shops, which dramatically improves competition. No need to buy extra hardware to access all those games means more money to buy games. A wider audience means lower prices for games to make back the necessary revenue to continue development of new titles. Plus, having a few major stores to choose from means a level of quality control is maintained that is not seen in iOS or Android--and hell, you could still have a "dumping ground" shop like Google Play for indie devs to self-publish and work on impressing the major shop keepers (be it Nintendo or whatever).

Stress then falls off of developers who no longer have to appeal to different hardware (make every game scaleable in a set standard), or need to meet standards of different console makers. I may then only need to meet Sony's standards, and since there'd be a Sony shop on every console, everyone has access to the game. It's just (say) my job as a developer to make the game, and Sony's as the shopkeeper and seller to promote it. Hell, the shops could even be internal "hubs" that players enter where they earn their trophies and things like that.

This is a system free of monopolies, and rife with aggressive competition. Competition among hardware sellers to make the most affordable and powerful hardware for the consumer would offer a huge variety of choice. Perhaps the exclusivity here is then on advertising. For instance, every console could feature an advertising bar in the "menu system" similar to a web page and maybe Square-Enix has a deal with Samsung for advertising their content a bit more heavily in the menu, and that's another way the hardware makers could earn a bit of revenue from publishers.

I've floated and updated this argument for about a year or so online, updating with good questions from others who have been smart enough to avoid knee-jerk reactions, and intrigued and patient enough to give me the necessary challenging questions and arguments. It sounds like some kind of fantasy utopian ideal, but we're seeing elements of it in Android platforms, Sony's expansive Playstation Now service (which will be built into Samsung Smart TV's soon), and the concept behind Valve's Steam Machines--which we should know more about at GDC.

Essentially it's a unified platform that greatly improves all we have now.
Hardware makers are more widespread and robust (we already even have basic controller layout standards), so competition improves.
Developers are no longer wasting time trying to appeal to vastly different console makers' sets of standards.
The consoles are more easily spread to wider audiences, so revenue goes up, and bigger and riskier games can be funded.
Several different shops prevents flooded cesspools like the iOS App Store and Google Play, and improves competition among .

The downside goes to fanboys (who lose their logo boxes) and, of course, we collectors. But I'm quite confident that the upsides are too widespread and strong to overlook--this would, quite literally, benefit everyone else--consumers, gamers, hardware makers, developers, publishers, and the industry as a whole.

At some point, I need to write up a detailed and fully refined layout of this concept.

Wow, those two top ten lists are incredibly sad. Especially if you consider the fact that if you remove franchise games from them....you have two titles left (Destiny and Minecraft).

@Robotron2084

Dude, this was fun. Also, I forgot to note that we may never know how much money Nintendo actually spent on Bayo 2 or Devil's Third, as no company is more tight-lipped about these kinds of things than Nintendo. Best we can do is average educated guesses based on known information, for instance, extrapolating based on known costs of developing Bayonetta 1.

The scale and scope of Xenoblade Chronicles X can likely be measured against something like Fallout: New Vegas or Skyrim, but not really GTAV as a big chunk of it's budget goes to licensing music.

And I would also like to see a modernized Robotron. I love twin-stick shmups.

I hope they can maintain momentum. Amiibo at least gives them more revenue. Only true system seller is Zelda and that will be an end of year release.

@Robotron2084

Ha, you've actually pointed out a major hurdle to the unified future, which in my original hypothesis, was Nintendo. Nintendo likes to cling to making hardware because Nintendo is more about control than anyone else in the industry. I think Nintendo believes that if they make hardware, they maintain control.

Nintendo could actually be a key element in this, in the right conditions. I've previously talked (and boy does this upset people) that, currently, many elements of Nintendo--right now--mirror both Atari and Sega in the generation prior to them stepping down from hardware development--the financial losses, the lost third-party support, the low-selling hardware, the industry feeling of irrelevance, falling into an inter-generation release cycle (which they are at risk of if they don't turn around the Wii U), etc. It's a mirror, but not exactly the same, just as Sega and Atari weren't exactly the same (the Jaguar was a notable failure, the Dreamcast a huge initial success, but Sega had acquired too many debts to ensure longevity). I was long against Nintendo going third party, frequently citing what may be a faulty reason--that Sega's quality dipped considerably afterwards. My hypothesis has long been that when Sega's games were pivotal to hardware, the quality was higher.

But Sega and Nintendo are two different companies in some key areas. I don't think Nintendo's quality would dip, nor do I think they'd "spread the love around equally" the way Sega did (they supported PS2, Xbox, and GameCube in equal measure with different games). I think Nintendo would play favorites and put Sony, MS, and possibly Valve in a bidding war for exclusivity so that they could actually maintain their quality control better.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Nintendo comes through this generation stronger and having made serious, necessary changes, but the idea of them as single-handedly the most powerful 3rd party is kind of exciting (their annual revenue is much closer to Sega and Activision than MS or Sony, but a bit more than Sega, who is the largest 3rd party in annual revenue somehow according to recent information from Wikipedia). Right now, much of the industry sees them as irrelevant due to their hardware. If they were focused just on software (or that and portable), they'd hold as much, if not more sway over the actions of MS and Sony than even EA or Activision currently have.

There's a lot to consider in this whole thing--including rumblings of Samsung, Google, and Amazon all potentially entering the industry. Samsung has the aforementioned deal with Sony for PS Now and Amazon purchased Double Helix, who made Killer Instinct for the Xbox One.

So yeah, in my view, Nintendo is the single biggest hurdle to a unified platform. Get them out of the hardware market, and the chances go way up. With Nintendo sitting there attempting to be different, it would inspire the industry to continue with dedicated hardware.

Of course, Nintendo could always surprise us all by creating a prototype of this very console for the next generation. Never know. I mean, who predicted the Wii Remote or FX chip on the SNES or the analog stick for the N64? Maybe that's what they mean by using Android as inspiration for their current planning and prototyping. If Nintendo told EA and Activision and Sega that they could open their own shops on the next console, separate from the eShop (where Nintendo still earns revenue on all shops, but the 3rd parties have total control within them), those third parties would be returning in droves. The same reason they run to Android is for the freedom and giant audience there.

Maybe I'll lay this all out sometime soon. I've talked about it enough as it is.

@JaxonH Thanks for the confidence boost bro.

@Quorthon

"They may need to go back to hemorrhaging if the XBO and (likely) PS4 price drop set new standards for the consoles. This is one of those things I think Nintendo plays too safe. They need to be aggressive in selling and marketing themselves, and that means taking risks, and they just aren't."

I totally get where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree, for this case anyway. The Wii U has a damaged perception, so going back to hemorrhaging isn't the wisest way to go about it. Remember way back in 2010-2011, when Nintendo first talked about the Wii U. It was supposed to be a warm welcome to third parties.

Point being is they tried, and failed miserably (and for many reasons), but it's initial start was on a good footing in line with what you're mentioning. I wholeheartedly agree that without third parties, you can't do much. But, no matter how low they drop the price of the Wii U, it will not bring the third parties back; they're gone for this generation, and Nintendo has to just dig in. This is why I believe they can't drop the price and has to remain as close to the break-even point as possible, to at least get some profit. Relaying off of what you said, if they cut the price, they will never make up the lost profit with just Nintendo games and amiibos.

As you mentioned, we're talking about two different business strategies here, but I believe Nintendo is on the right path, even if it isn't a very good path to begin with. They just have to ride it out.

@CaviarMeths
You hit the nail on the head, sir. Yes, the Wii U may be behind overall sales to the PS4 and the Xbox One but what matters more than just console sales is profit. Analysts who spell doom for Nintendo forget they have BILLIONS in the bank and they seem to always bounce back. (Case in point, the Amibos.) People tend to forget the reason Sega got out of the hardware business is because they had been failing hard in that for years post the Genesis. They had no finanical chose but to go software only. Nintendo doesn't have that problem and no matter what they say, what matters at the end of the day is that your company is proftiable and has growth. Nintendo has that.

@CaviarMeths That line about nintendo swimming in a pool of Wii/DS money got me thinking what are the chances they'll probably name their next console Wii DS given how much they'd like to return to the phat stacks of cash they made with those consoles in the mid to late 2000's and that it follows in naming conventions established with the Wii U and 3DS

@Nintendo69 You shouldn't let anyone interrupt your joy of gaming, especially fanboys

@Mizzah_Tee Wow. I didn't know you come to this site. Lol.

@Robotron2084 "I've heard rumours that Nintendo are going to have to move away from their Power PC chips after this gen, due to them not getting continued, meaning they'll be left with no choice but to go into the ring with Sony and Microsoft, technology wise."

I have this queasy feeling in my gut that Nintendo is gonna go with ARM for their "unified platform," instead of x86 like MS and Sony did. ARM processing is slowly becoming a real beast, and they are continually becoming more powerful. Nintendo is not going to put an expensive, power hogging AMD/Intel x86 CPU into their "unified platform." The current gen Sony/MS consoles' exhaust vents could be repurposed as hair dryers, for cripes! Nintendo consoles have been and always will be quite and efficient.

To continue that trend, Nintendo are likely going to make it ARM based, possibly maintaining backwards compatability with the 2DS but not Wii/Wii-U. With any architecture change, some or all backwards compatability will be lost. More importantly, the switch to ARM will simultaneously be a slap in the face to third party Sony/MS developers as well as a boon to indie developers already accustomed to developing on Android/iOS.

All-in-all, with the PS4 And XOne getting a bunch of exclusive games this year, the Wii U is going to have to really fight. I know the Wii U has Zelda, Star Fox and some Mario titles coming out this year, but what about the following year??? Are they still going to have a strong line up??? I want to see Animal Crossing, a new Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion 3, Paper Mario, Metroid and possibly a new Eternal Darkness, Startropics and a better Wii Sports game come out for the system.
What I'm trying to say, and let it be known that I am a nintendo fan (had every system including the virtual boy), but I also like Sony (PS3 and PS4 only), nintendo is really going to have to keep the momentum going, and judging by the way they have been doing things in the past, after this year, their main focus will be the New 3DS and that weird new project system they're coming out with...which means, the Wii U will be in another drought in 2016 with only a few titles to keep it's library filled. If they end up doing this again, it's going to turn many people away from the system...again...and nintendo doomed stories will start all over again.
I know they say that the Gamecube was not a big hit, but games were really coming out for it. The gamecube had a lot of third party support too, which means more games. If you add up every game that is available on the shelves for the Wii U, compared to the Gamecube, in the 2-year cycle, there are a lot more for Gamecube. Now, add up the library of the PS4 and XONE (give them this year), and then add up the Wii U's (it's first 2 years), and the library is incredibly small. I don't even think 100 games are available on the Wii U yet, and for the fact that the system is going into it's 3rd year, that's not that good.
I know fanboys will keep talking good about the system, and it is a really good system, but the system is really lagging behind...Virtual Boy was a horrible system, given up by nintendo very early...but the Wii U is almost like the Dreamcast (given that nintendo is not going bankrupt with it). I really hope nintendo comes back with their next console, but I feel that the next one will only match graphics with the PS4 and XONE, which means, after the next Sony and Microsoft systems come out, they'll be behind once again. Here's to hoping that nintendo's next console is a console/handheld project. Imagine taking it on the go to play but also playing on a TV too. That would be nintendo's money maker, and push back into the top spot.

All-in-all, with the PS4 And XOne getting a bunch of exclusive games this year, the Wii U is going to have to really fight. I know the Wii U has Zelda, Star Fox and some Mario titles coming out this year, but what about the following year??? Are they still going to have a strong line up??? I want to see Animal Crossing, a new Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion 3, Paper Mario, Metroid and possibly a new Eternal Darkness, Startropics and a better Wii Sports game come out for the system.
What I'm trying to say, and let it be known that I am a nintendo fan (had every system including the virtual boy), but I also like Sony (PS3 and PS4 only), nintendo is really going to have to keep the momentum going, and judging by the way they have been doing things in the past, after this year, their main focus will be the New 3DS and that weird new project system they're coming out with...which means, the Wii U will be in another drought in 2016 with only a few titles to keep it's library filled. If they end up doing this again, it's going to turn many people away from the system...again...and nintendo doomed stories will start all over again.
I know they say that the Gamecube was not a big hit, but games were really coming out for it. The gamecube had a lot of third party support too, which means more games. If you add up every game that is available on the shelves for the Wii U, compared to the Gamecube, in the 2-year cycle, there are a lot more for Gamecube. Now, add up the library of the PS4 and XONE (give them this year), and then add up the Wii U's (it's first 2 years), and the library is incredibly small. I don't even think 100 games are available on the Wii U yet, and for the fact that the system is going into it's 3rd year, that's not that good.
I know fanboys will keep talking good about the system, and it is a really good system, but the system is really lagging behind...Virtual Boy was a horrible system, given up by nintendo very early...but the Wii U is almost like the Dreamcast (given that nintendo is not going bankrupt with it). I really hope nintendo comes back with their next console, but I feel that the next one will only match graphics with the PS4 and XONE, which means, after the next Sony and Microsoft systems come out, they'll be behind once again. Here's to hoping that nintendo's next console is a console/handheld project. Imagine taking it on the go to play but also playing on a TV too. That would be nintendo's money maker, and push back into the top spot.

@MoonKnight7

I don't buy the idea that Nintendo would just get out of video games or burn their IPs to the ground, so to speak, instead of going third party. I know Nintendo said they'd get out of gaming before going third party, but we should all be wise enough to recognize that line for what it really is--corporate hyperbole.

They want to put their most dedicated fans' fears at ease, and they'll say that to do that. And it works, of course! There are a lot of people who really believe Nintendo would, for some reason, simply dump potentially billions of dollars rather than going third party or selling of those million and billion-dollar franchises. It's just too unrealistic.

For one thing,even if Nintendo did just walk away from the industry, here's the outcome: They'd sell off the IPs to other developers, as Atari and THQ did when then went under. What's the other option? They just sit on the franchises until the copyrights expire, then everyone has the legal right to make a Mario or Zelda game willy-nilly. If Nintendo just scraps game development, they aren't going to spend money renewing a bunch of copyrights they aren't ever going to use, and without income from those franchises, they'd lose all their money anyway.

On top of that, there are investors--lots of investors. Nintendo is a public company. When it comes down to the decisions of "go third party" or "sell off IPs," they're going to go with the one that earns them money, not just abandon it all to what would no doubt lead to endless lawsuits and litigations from investors.

As Nintendo fans, if Nintendo can no longer function well or be profitable making consoles, which would you prefer? Them going third party, them selling off IPs, or them going under and being sued into oblivion for not properly dealing with investors? Which is more realistic?

I would much rather they go third party than anything else. Then they still control their own IPs and the sooner they go third party, the better as they'll have the money to survive the transition. A little long-winded, I'm sure, but I'm personally tired of seeing that notion--that Nintendo would rather bury the company than go third party or sell off IPs. It's just not realistic in any capacity.

I do fully agree that Nintendo needs to ride out the rocky path they're now on, and they need to work overtime to do it. Whatever happens, they need to make the Wii U last, even if all (or at least most) signs currently point to that not happening.

My point about them possibly lowering the price of the Wii U wasn't something I think they should do or what may be good for the company--only that it may become necessary if MS forces an industry change and makes the $350 price point of the Xbox One permanent. Sony will no doubt then follow suit, and it's going to be hard for Nintendo to sell such a weaker system for nearly that price in that environment. It's a balancing act bordering on gambling. They may have to take the cut and hope it keeps the Wii U relevant. Basically, if the price cut of the XBO causes a price cut of the PS4, and the Wii U then starts losing a lot of ground, they will have to drop the price or at the very least, come up with some kind of insanely good marketing or bundle deals.

It's also been on the market for two years. The cost of manufacturing that thing has got to have dropped a little bit by now.

Sorry if it sounds like I ranted towards you in any way, I only try to address ideas and content of the posts, except in extreme circumstances when an individual is demonstrating poor character (you are not). I have had a bit of a rant stewing for a while concerning the whole "Nintendo said they'd rather quit gaming than go third party" hyperbole. I mean no offense to you if you liked that line, but I just couldn't see how anyone could hear that and buy into it. Nintendo isn't one angry, misguided guy that doesn't understand the world around him, like George Lucas, they're a major corporation and not prone to such decisions that smack of silly, immature teenage angst. "Oh yeah!? If you guys aren't gonna buy my consoles, I'M JUST GONNA STOP MAKING GAMES ALTOGETHER! THAT'LL SHOW THE LOT OF YAH!!"

Silly.

Strong finish specially since the games came out towards the end of the year as well. Nintendo has a big year to top that for sure ~

@Cyberbotv2 Thanks for calling everybody who bought an amiibo a "sucker" I guess but I certainly didn't buy a TOY as an investment... I bought it to play with.

@Quorthon

If it's ok with you, I'm going to try and merge our two simultaneous conversations. Some things cross over anyway:

I don't recall disagreeing about their IPs leaving forever, my apologizies if that was unclear. I do remember saying that I think they're here for a while in the console wars, but you are quite right there, they certainly won't abandon their IPs and leave them for dead. I suppose some people feel if they leave the console business, some of the lesser IPs will get lost, i.e. get sold off to companies that can't manage the brand well. I don't really feel this fear myself, as I believe Nintendo will always be there to manage their IPs in whatever form, third party or console. My argument was can they make as much money as a third party? You say yes, using Sega as an example. I remain unsure. I just don't know how well they'd handle themselves by not using their own technology. It'd take some time to adjust I suppose.

As far as their current finances go, I don't quite see the Sega/Atari downward spiral just yet. Don't forget how successful the DS and Wii were, fad or no. I believe the Wii U was just that much of a disaster which has caused them their current trouble, not a mismanagement in funds. I think we could have this conversation again if they have another flop in the next gen. But indeed, Nintendo is very smart with their money, their marketing just dropped the ball.

You are right about the consoles dying quickly. With the exception of the DS, nothing seems to linger around past it's prime. That certainly is a valid note.

Topic 2:

Realistically, I believe the XOne is at least a year or two away from dropping to their permanent price point. This does allow Nintendo to wisely invest time to lower the cost of the Wii U as much as possible. Then, when a MS price drop does happen, Nintendo can be ready to do the same. We both know that Sony was running away with huge numbers, so MS wanted to get it's hand in the pot. It was just a stunt to give the XOne some "look how amazing this is selling" headlines. It worked for the most part in terms of public image, but it appears the PS4 still managed to outsell it. Or at the very least, it's a too close to call situation.

Now, if MS dropped their price tomorrow, would Nintendo follow suit? I just don't think they can, for reasons I mentioned in my prior post. But the fact of the matter is, I don't believe MS will do it permanently yet. They had to have lost a significant amount of money dropping the price to $400 to begin with, even with dropping the Kinect.

Financially, no, they aren't to the Sega/Atari pre-downfall level, and they do have one successful edge, which is the 3DS/portable line, which Sega and Atari did not have.

The similarities I note, however, concern far more than just finances, and may be more important in the long run. The Wii U is not Nintendo's Dreamcast (although it is selling worse than the Dreamcast). The best analogy is that the Wii U is the 7800, Saturn, or PS3--a major misstep that is costing them dearly. They will either come back with one last hurrah (Dreamcast/Jaguar) for the next generation, or they could return to glory, so to speak as Sony did with the PS4.

These issues are the lost 3rd party support, the lost consumer confidence, losing sales markets (like Brazil and the UK is not looking so good, either), and a notion of irrelevance in the modern gaming industry. Right now, Nintendo is appealing entirely to one small, core group--and that's us. Nintendo fans. And in the long run, that's not going to cut it. They need regular consumers and regular gamers on their side, or their profit margins are going to fall--and they'll fall far worse than any possible temporary loss if they went third party.

I'm of the opinion that Nintendo may be at a point of no return. The time for them to get gamers back on their side was last generation when they had a console that dominated sales charts. But they designed it so that it ultimately kept gamers and major developers away. Sony and Microsoft have brands now that are more ingrained in the minds of consumers and gamers for "gaming" and home entertainment, and that's Xbox and Playstation. By point of no return, I don't think they have it in them to appeal to that gaming audience or those 3rd parties to the point where any gamer would seriously consider a Nintendo console instead of a PS4 or XBO. Nintendo has put themselves in a place as a companion piece, not a centerpiece.

Nintendo fans are fond of discounting and ignoring things like Achievements and Trophies, the optional paid services with their multitude of free games, and things like this. But we need to face that these things build consumer relationships with MS and Sony. If I've been building up the same profile for two generations, with a huge collection of trophies, and I have a robust friend list on my Sony platform, what could Nintendo possibly do to make me switch sides next time? Granted, switching sides does happen, as I switched, as it were, from X360 to PS4, but my girlfriend bought an XBO and I'll still be building onto my profile on that one. I'm rather enjoying building up my PSN profile for right now. My point is, these things matter, and Nintendo is behind the curve.

I think their chance to appeal to the gamers of the world has passed, and that consumer apathy towards them will continue. Outside of the gamer audience, you have the casual gamer audience--your major Call of Duty and Madden and Fifa players who don't really care about Achievements or Trophies as much, but they don't look at Nintendo for these franchises, nor do they look at Nintendo for great online play. You've got the tech junkies who are drawn to the new technology, and Nintendo has now trained an audience that they will always be behind the curve in that aspect, despite the fact that they were the technology leaders in the past.

No, they aren't exactly like Atari and Sega, but there are too many other similarities to ignore. But the issues that are similar are deeply troubling. A lot of Nintendo fans like to pretend that Nintendo doesn't need revenue from 3rd parties, but they not only need that revenue, but the console sales that are helped by 3rd parties. Mario and Zelda didn't sell the Wii, a gimmick did, and gimmicks are pretty clearly not going to work anymore. Even Microsoft quickly dumped their gimmick, and Kinect will be dead by 2016.

I can see, quite easily, a lot of steps Nintendo could take to reverse their fortunes. I just don't think they actually will do any of them. They're too stubborn in thinking that "they aren't competing" against MS and Sony. The reality is that all consumers, outside of a small group of misguided Nintendo loyalists, see them as in competition--and losing.

My point on the sales is that MS could drop to a new permanent. I would not have guessed it'd happen this soon under normal circumstances, but MS has been playing hardball for a while now, and they currently have another price drop for the XBO. If this keeps up, Sony will follow suit. They aren't going to let Microsoft have the run of the industry again.

There is currently no mention of an end date for the current Xbox One price cut, and MS will have no problem at this point making that money back on revenue from game sales. If it keeps their sales up, Sony will drop to follow suit. The reality is then that Nintendo loses money either way--it's either going to be difficult (if not impossible) for consumers to justify the Wii U at only $50 less than these consoles, or Nintendo will have to drop the price a bit to maintain their current, still unimpressive, sales. Like I said, Nintendo has unfortunately put themselves in a position as a companion piece, not a centerpiece--and to the average gamer, that's a lot of money for a companion console that's only going to be turned on when Nintendo releases some exclusive worth owning.

The question of "will MS return the XBO to its full $400 price tag?" remains to be answered. With no end date given, it's entirely possible this is a corporate ploy to keep Sony from doing the same too soon. Is MS losing a lot of money on the price drop of the XBO? Maybe--but not as much as they lost on the Xbox 360 as part of normal operation, and normally, the XBO and PS4 are both profitable. The consoles are both selling well, so MS and Sony can afford a little price war right now.

My impression is that you don't think Nintendo can afford a price war. I don't know if they can, I'm only saying that at some point this year, they may be drawn into one, whether they can afford it or not.

Oh my previous point (on Nintendo's IPs) was sparked by you saying something along the lines of Nintendo "burning their franchises to the ground" before letting anyone else have them or going third party. I think you were making a comment on their stubbornness, not on the silly notion Iwata (or maybe Miyamoto?) once claimed that they'd "quit gaming before going third party." I was addressing that this is highly illogical and extremely improbable. They would definitely go third party first. The last thing they'd do is sell off their franchises.

Currently, my opinion is that the absolute best thing Nintendo could do would be a partnership with Sony where Sony makes the console, Nintendo makes the portable, and they both support both machines in equal measure. It'd help prevent droughts, it'd allow Nintendo to maintain some of their traditional gaming standing, it would help Nintendo get back in good graces with regular gamers, and Nintendo gamers would finally understand the importance of having a console that features a healthy library of 3rd party games. It'd be a huge win-win for both companies, and for gamers as a whole.

Essentially, I'm confident that Nintendo could transition to 3rd party or move into this partnership very successfully, so long as they do it soon, while the 3DS still has heft, and while they still have money in the bank. Essentially, they should do it before they fall completely by the wayside as Atari did with the Jaguar. When Atari went third party, they were at an absolute low point and seen as totally irrelevant. When Sega went third party, they had only just leveled out, partially through new attention via the Dreamcast and some ridiculously lucky financial terms (they literally had major debts forgiven by the creditor on his death bed!). Nintendo is not completely irrelevant yet, and they still have money. The sooner they do this, the better.

What I am not confident in, is Nintendo's ability to ever return to console gaming to the level of the SNES, or to match MS and Sony in market appeal. And they're going to need to do that if they wish to keep making games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and Zelda U.

I have always been a fan of Nintendo and their consoles, but I think there is almost too much damage done for them to ever return to their glory in the industry as a whole. Everyone wants them to go third party, except for this small core of Nintendo fans. It may be about time for them to do it.