Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles 3

Alright, just finished up Future Redeemed. So I guess I'm officially done with the series now (unless I decide to try to go back and finish X one day, but it has been so long that I highly doubt I'll do that because I won't have a clue what I'm doing and I definitely won't want to start it all over). I thought it was good, I probably would have appreciated it more if I had taken a longer break after beating the main game. I'm a bit Xenobladed out by now. And if I had remembered more about the first game, but it's been well over a decade since I played it so I don't remember a lot of it. I thought these characters were definitely better than the ones from the main game, if they had just given them these personalities, it would have been a lot better. This grown-up Rex was like the perfect way to do Lanz. And maybe not so much personality-wise but action-wise, Glimmer and Nikol were exactly what Ethel and Cammuravi should have been (I know most of you disagree with me about them, but that's just my thoughts). The funniest part, though, was how clearly the gamemakers or the playtesters or someone saw all the same stuff I did that made no sense in the main game, because most of Future Redeemed was spent trying to answer those questions and make it make sense. It still didn't do everything justice for me personally, but it is a fantasy world of their creating, so I can go with it. There is at least one big question that has been left unanswered for me though since practically the beginning of the main game, which maybe it's just because I don't remember from the first game, but why do all of the Kevesi things look like the Mechonis, the bad guys? If Melia is their queen, wouldn't she have made everything to look like the Bionis?

@Xyphon22 Because the Bionis is the bad guy? The Mechon were actually just born of Egil's misguided attempt to stop Zanza from destroying and recycling the world like he had many times before. The people of Keves are comprised of races from the Bionis and Mechonis both, with Machina being one of the prevalent races that lived alongside Homs, High Entia, and Nopon. They most likely introduced their tech and helped to forge the technology of the original world. On top of this, we can't really take the tech and cultures of Agnus and Keves as their actual tech or culture- seeing how a ton of it was pretty much made as Moebius propaganda. We don't know if the people of Keves actually used mechon-based designs for their own tech or not, seeing as the Levnises and Ferronis were manufactured in Origin by Moebius themselves. Origin is the original Ferronis.

Also I disagree with you completely on the whole "the main characters in 3 have no personality." They do? Sure, Noah is more soft-spoken and more subdued, but most of the characters in the main party have core personalities and actual arcs. Rex's character for Lanz would make no sense, given that a lot of it plays off of how Rex was in Xenoblade 2. Glimmer and Nikol were not what Ethel and Cammuravi "Should have been," as they're universally two different characters with entirely different concepts going on. Ethel and Cammuravi met a fitting end for what their characters were established to be- regardless or not if you see it/like it.

Also Future Redeemed was written before the base game even released. The devs didn't just go "Oh, we need to still answer these questions," but purposefully withheld information, mainly because it was dependent on other games to understand and they wanted 3's narrative to stand upon it's own as much as possible. Alvis' location was pretty much alluded to in Xenoblade 1's artbook- years before 2 or 3 were even a concept in Takahashi's mind.

Basically, Future Redeemed isn't them trying to haphazardly come up with explanations, but rather them leaving out actual context that was written either before 3 or alongside 3. We know this for a fact due to the founder statues in the City, which pretty much shows that the entire plot of Future Redeemed was at least already written out.

I need to go back and replay it, but I didn't really click with Future Redeemed like I did with Torna, XC3, and, to a much lesser extent, XC2. It felt like an extension of the first game in more ways than one.

Also, FR introduced forced walking segments when characters were chatting, like it's The Last of Us or something, which may or may not have annoyed the heck out of me. Keep that nonsense out of my Japanese games, please!

I will say, though, the way it rewards exploration and incentivizes fully completing the available content in each area is perfect. I hope that sticks around in their future Xeno games.

@Ralizah Ehh I didn't hate the forced walking segments. It makes sense given the context of the scenes where it ends up happening.

I loved Future Redeemed a lot personally, but Xenoblade 1 is probably my second favorite in the series. Future Redeemed helped to tie it back to the trilogy, given that other than one specific thing for 2, it was mostly disjointed. Mainly just due to the fact that Xenoblade 1 wasn't originally intended to be a Xeno game in the first place, let alone a recreation of Perfect Works like the series is now. I also like how it wrapped up some loose ends like where Alvis went and confirmed that he pretty much saw all life eventually walking together, like they would at the end of 3.

Also yeah, the way they had the exploration was great. It was super fulfilling to explore the area of Future Redeemed- and I hope Xenoblade 4 keeps up that momentum.

@VoidofLight Thanks for that summary to answer my question. I told you I didn't remember much of the first game. And if that is the case about Future Redeemed vs. the main game, then that is just bad writing or game design because a lot of people are not going to get the DLC and then be completely lost or confused.

@Ralizah Yeah, I didn't think it was near as good as Torna. And those forced walking segments were bad, but at least none of them lasted more than like 15-20 seconds, I don't think. And I didn't even realize how much I missed the Collectopedia in the main game until it was back in FR. Having all that stuff you can just complete as you wander was great. I didn't fully complete it, but I definitely made a point to get all I could see even if I had to wander off a little.

@Xyphon22 The game is perfectly playable without the DLC. Story works on it's own two legs, even without the smaller stuff being answered. People don't need to know that Lucky 7 is Fiora, given that the game doesn't really center around that in the first place. Same with N's sword being Logos or Ouroboros power being Photon Energy. We don't need to know that Origin is just built off the inner-workings of Ontos' core crystal, or that it's a mini-zohar emulator in order to understand the center-point of XC3's plot. It's cool details to learn and helps to tie the story together, but it isn't outright needed to get the gist of the over-all narrative.

@VoidofLight The random disconnect with character control in Western AAA stuff is a long-standing gripe I have, and it was annoying to see it reappear here. If you're going to rip control away from the player, make it a cutscene and preserve the integrity of the gameplay experience.

I feel like how you feel about XC1 heavily determines your reaction to FR. Not just because of the considerable story links and fanservice, but also because of the focus on the overarching lore of the series.

@Xyphon22 Torna was unusually good. Everything I liked about base XC2 with almost none of the problems it had. Even the image quality was better.

I also liked how they could allow tragic events to play out to their logical conclusion, since it's a prequel. All three of the main games pull their punches a bit when it comes to the most gut-wrenching events.

It was my favorite Xenoblade experience before base XC3 released. Enjoyed every moment of it.

@Ralizah I don't really like how they use it in Western games I will admit. I just think the few moments they did it in FR felt like it worked well. Especially when you get to Klaus' world. Having that be a brief playable area was genuinely impactful for me, even if you moved pretty slow. It probably wouldn't have hit nearly as hard if it was just a series of cutscenes.

Outside of that though, Western AAA games and Final Fantasy 7 Remake pretty much just felt annoying with it. It feels like padding, or like the game is trying to force the player to play at a specific pace. It isn't utilized effectively, and tends to be utilized waaaay too much.

Also that's true I guess. Depending on if you like Xenoblade 1 or not, Future Redeemed will pretty much be different. It isn't like Torna where even people who disliked Xenoblade 2 ended up loving it. It's just a ton of heavy-handed lore stuff that connects 1 back to everything that came after it. Making sense of questions posed by a ton of retcons.

I guess it doesn't help though that Xenoblade 3's base game is also pretty heavy on Xenoblade 1 stuff as well. You never really get to see the Agnian members before the story starts, and a ton of the earlier areas lean on XC1 a bit more than XC2.

@VoidofLight I dunno. XC3 definitely has XC1 vibes early on (you get that pretty much immediately when the game starts in the middle of a huge battle lol), and certain design choices deliberately mimic the first game (sprawling, connected environments; loot orbs instead of contextual looting spots; etc.), but there's a lot of XC2 love as it goes on. Nia feels integral to the last half of the game, with Melia being more of a cameo, basically. The fanservice right at the end was much more XC2-focused, with Poppi returning and seeing the grown-up cast of XC2 in that picture versus Melia... looking at the Monado. A gentle piano remix of Drifting Soul playing in the Cloudkeep was probably somewhat emotional for everyone who enjoyed the second game, whereas there's no comparable feel to any of the XC1 connections.

More than anything, though, XC3 had such a focus on character development and the moment-to-moment of their journey together, which felt like an evolution of XC2's comparable character focus. XC1 and FR feel more invested in the details of the lore, which has just never really interested me. Fantasy fluff is only meaningful to me insofar as it connects back to the humanity of its cast. That's why the worldbuilding of XC3 and XC2, to a lesser extent, worked for me, whereas XC1 and FR feel comparably alienating. The relationship between blades and drivers, or the ghastly perversion of life that Kevesi and Agnian soldiers are forced to endure, meaningfully relate back to existential concerns that help me to relate to the cast. Whereas I really couldn't care less if Fiora is a sword or how the world's underpinnings relate back to deities and fantasy computers.

For me, Future Redeemed was just as much about the characters as it was about the lore. Shulk and Rex get a lot in terms of character moments, and so does N. I also personally think that Xenoblade 2 was just as lore heavy as 1 and FR. The Trinity Core and Conduit were actually introduced in 2, and weren't additions that existed in 1- outside of the experiment being a thing. The only thing the original game really had were Alvis and the Monado, which got retconned into something larger with 2. If anything, 2 is the lore heavy game and 1 is more of an action-driven sci-fi fantasy game.

@VoidofLight XC2 packages its lore bits into the last part of the game. It doesn't dominate the experience.

I will admit FR does a better job with its characters than the original did. In general, the impression I came away with was that it felt sort of like the original, but improved in many respects. The development of Rex and Shulk's parental relationships with Glimmer and Nikol were the highlight of the game for me.

@Ralizah Eh, I guess that's true. I don't mind lore though. I feel like XC1 balanced things out, even though the characters sorta suffered a bit for the themes as a whole. XC2 kinda puts it at the end, but it made for a pretty great finale. 3 sorta has it take a back seat because what the objects represent matter more than what they are. Future Redeemed is kinda like a similar approach to how 1 handled things, but with a more character-driven focus to it.

Also agreed. I loved seeing Shulk and Rex as parents. Seeing how they were later in life, and the whole passing of the torch into the next generation as to continue what they started . It was really really well done.

@VoidofLight Crazily enough, absolutely zero of the things you mentioned in your response to my post are things I am talking about that didn't make sense in the main game. Also, a few of them are things that I still didn't get from the DLC, so maybe I had just zoned out by that point. I don't want to get into all of it here, though, as there are too many and I don't feel like reading through all the response posts attempting to convince me how wrong I am and how amazing this game actually is. I just thought I would post my personal comments, thinking some people might enjoy them as they differ from the general opinion, but I'm done with that now. Maybe one day down the line when I'm incredibly bored I'll try to find a good overarching explanation of how the entire series ties together, but that day is not today. I'm ready to move on now. Have a great day. See you in another thread.

Not gonna lie I wish Future Redeemed's story was the main game's story. It was a little rushed and a bit too big for its own good while being crammed in a DLC sized framework.

@jedgamesguy I don't think it should've been the main game's story, but I feel like it probably would have benefitted a ton more if it were a longer expansion with more than just one region of the map. It could've used a bit more room to breathe so that we got more development with some of the new characters.

@VoidofLight Yeah I found it pointless how they created so many characters that clearly had interesting stories to tell yet they got like 10 minutes of screentime. Glimmer and Nikol in particular suffer because they have basic motivations outlined but they're playing second fiddles to the two leads, and then to Shulk and Rex.

The fact that they track collectibles and enemy defeats now speaks volumes about how dense the DLC is, and not in a good way.

@jedgamesguy In terms of collectables, they did that for Xenoblade 1 as well. I kinda hope XC4 ends up doing something similar with it's collectables again, since 1's system made them interesting to collect.

Also yeah, I don't get the argument presented earlier that "Ethel and Cammuravi should've been more like Nikol and Glimmer," given that Nikol and Glimmer genuinely don't hold as much depth in their characters as Ethel and Cammuravi did. --That's not even mentioning that Ethel and Cammuravi are just two entirely different ideas for characters in the first place.--

Forgive the brain dump and any potential typos. I'm trying to get all this down while it's still mostly fresh.

I finally finished Future Redeemed yesterday and am still chewing over some of what I played and witnessed. I quite enjoyed the DLC and think it answered many hanging threads regarding the series, but not all. There was enough to run with here that I think they could have made it a bit longer and done a shorter/separate retail release like with Torna: The Golden Country.

Overall I liked the plot, but I agree with some of the consensus above that parts of it did feel a bit rushed. Most of the main party was fleshed out nicely, but Nikol and Glimmer definitely could have used more development. We also had some great development with both N and Na'el (Would've liked a bit more screen time with her though).,

There are still some things I'm confused about though:

• Are Shulk, Rex, and A essentially Aionios's avatars now, replacing Alpha/Ontos after his demise?
• Something I noticed was Pneuma's Core Crystal was present on Matthew's fist Blade that he received from Ghondor. Did I miss or overlook how its presence is explained? Same with Logos being present on N's Sword of the End (I missed this one; the internet informed me).
• Okay, we knew before now that Melia and Nia, both of whom are from long-lived races, are OLD. AND we know Aionios has been playing through its "endless now" for some time since N is Matthew's great-granddad and had multiple cycles as Noah before that point. Do folks (going off an off-convo with Linka) originally from Bionis/Alrest not hardly age at all in Aionios since they weren't assimilated by Origin and technically don't adhere to the same flow of time and rules? If this is the case, how did Panacea and Linka supposedly die off later? (Though I'll admit this is never confirmed)
• In that same vein, Riku is totally the seventh City founder. How old is this guy? Nopon are likewise long-lived, but...
• At one point, Riku explained to Matthew about Lucky Seven being forged from a piece of Origin. And that this means the sword can store souls and memories. I saw this above I think, but when did the game say that Fiora was explicitly inside?

Outside of the plot and characters:

• I absolutely love the Affinity System, which is why it took me ~30 hours to reach the end since I wanted to do about everything. I just left off some of the battle challenges (90% completion) and didn't fully finish the bestiary piece since that involved superbosses that I don't wanna grind for (I did attempt one; HOOOOO boy was that guy armored). But quests, exploration, Community, collectibles, upgrades? All done minus maxing out some of the gems. I'm a sucker for exploration and world building in games like this. If I'm enjoying myself, my playtime really ramps up.
• I liked some of the gameplay tweaks compared to the base game - mostly fusion Arts and the Chain Attack manuals that made characters very customizable - but I will admit I missed the proper Ouroboros powers. Mainly because they look cool and are OP.
• Phenomenal OST, a mix of nostalgic tunes (I was THRILLED when the Colony 9 theme started playing!) and new tracks (Black Mountain, anyone? Especially that melancholic night theme) that will definitely get added to my work listening.

I did play some of the DLC present in the main game as well - mostly the stuff involving the two new Heroes and their quests. I didn't really bother with the challenge mode though. I also went back and did some post-game stuff and quest cleanup from my initial playthrough. I pretty much dropped the game after finally rolling the credits almost two years ago since I'd put in roughly 135 hours by that point and needed a break.

I'm expecting some mentions and answers, so I'll get back to any responses when I can (Which isn't every day I'll admit; depends on how busy I am).

@Tyranexx Basically from my understanding those who are outside the flow of Aionios aren't immortal or long-lived compared to those who were born into the world- but rather the reason for Shulk, Rex, and Riku to have longer lifespans is due to them having some sort of role to play within the flow of the passage of fate. It's the only way I can actually make sense of it, given that the two founders ended up dying natural deaths- or implied to have died natural deaths. As for Fiora, that was confirmed in the artbook, but alluded to by Riku talking to Shulk. The Pneuma core wasn't actually in Matthew's weapon, but rather the soul of pneuma was embedded in the weapon. Most likely the same case for Logos, but we don't actually know because Takahashi is being coy with it and saying he can't answer that yet.

See, I was planning on just reading other people's thoughts and not getting involved, but this was just too good to ignore. You get up in arms when I say that things don't make sense, telling me that everything makes perfect sense if you just see the subtle clues. But then you flat out admit that the only way to make things make sense is to make things up in your own head that don't appear in the game. Either that, or the answers are found in the artbook rather than in the game (or purposefully holding it back for the DLC as you claimed earlier). Again, this is either terrible game design or approaching EA-levels of greed and scuminess. "We have the answers to the questions you are asking, but we are requiring you to purchase more stuff to get them." Look, I understand you said this is the only Nintendo series you still like so you feel the need to justify it all, but it's allowed to have flaws, which it clearly does.