Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@WaveBoy Switch 2 cases end up being plastic cylinders.

see why handheld PC, could be a major competition for Nintendo next console

@Giancarlothomaz I doubt it the price point is simply too high for a casual gamer so unless the switch two ends up being 500$+ Nintendo will probably continue controlling the mobile console market

I don't tend to watch the videos that get spammed in this thread, but the title of that one reminds me of a wondering I had fairly recently, wondering about the potential for Nintendo to do any sort of deal for some basic productivity apps on Switch 2 - I wouldn't complain if I could access my Google Drive and associated apps from it.

@Giancarlothomaz
Not gonna bother watching that clickbait.

Switch 2 won't face any competition from PC handhelds, which have been around over a decade now. I owned a GPD Win 2 long before Steamdeck existed, long before the PC handheld trend caught on.

PC handhelds are awesome, and I'm glad to see then carve out a niche in the market. But they'll never be more than just that- a niche. Windows handhelds especially since Windows is so overly bloated and resource intensive. Steamdeck will remain the most popular of the bunch, and last reported sales numbers put it around 3 million sold after 2 years.

So ya, it's an amazing device. I HIGHLY recommend Steamdeck OLED to any portable gamer, particularly Switch fans. It made my PS5, XSX and gaming PC completely irrelevant. But it'll never be more than a curiosity in the eyes of the masses, and that's assuming they even heard if it in the first place.

That video headline is about as ridiculous as saying, "3DS will face stiff competition from GPD Win 2"... yaaaa no

@JaxonH
I'd agree that Switch 2 is going to have a relatively clear space ahead of it but I think you're understating the level of the threat. I mean sure, they're niche now but I don't think that's necessarily where they stay. I mean for one thing, you say Windows is too bloated and not really suited to the task and that's definitely true. But Microsoft also happens to be fighting a losing battle against PS5 despite owning an army of game development studios. I think portable XBox, in some form or another, is all but inevitable. Will whatever that product is be more Zune than XBox Game Pass? Who knows. But I think they make a play

And while that is happening we're seeing the effective hardware gap just continue to close. For the same reason you and others are happy to just migrate to Steam Deck entirely. On a 5-8" screen you don't really need much more than 720p. The general rule of thumb is that portable hardware is about 10 years behind. GBA was a portable SNES, DS was a portable N64, 3DS was a portable GC, Switch was a portable PS3. Give of take. The PS4 launched 10 years ago....I reckon if you ran a PS4 and a PS5 both through a 720p 7" portable screen most people aren't going to be able to tell the difference

I think we're in phase two of this product category. The first phase was curiosity devices from the likes of GPD Win and Aya Neo. This next phase is when people like Asus and Valve taking it seriously. Phase 3 I think we Microsoft make a play, whether that's hardware or giving OEM's an "XBox OS". I think we see Valve and others release the equivalent of their "GameBoy Pocket" as a refresh to the original Steam Deck's DMG. I think we see that $1000AU+ tier persist but I think we start to see more lower powered, cheaper, slimmer products come to market. Eventually someone's going to release the iPod of this category and I don't think Steam Deck is that product

Do I think this will knock of Nintendo's title as undefeated in the portable space since 1989? No. They fought off iPhone, PSP, Vita, NGage, WonderSwan, NeoGeo Pocket, GameGear. You'd have to be crazy to bet against them in this space. But I think these portable PCs are closer to the PSP/iPhone end of that spectrum, this certainly isn't 3DS vs GPD Win 2

@skywake
I think portable XBox, in some form or another, is all but inevitable

I said that to myself many years ago. I'm now convinced it will never happen. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know jack, I'm just speculating. But I truly believe MS has no interest in a handheld, and the most we'll get from them is some form of Gamepass on Steamdeck, if we're lucky.

I think it would be brilliant for them to create a handheld. Xbox is essentially Windows slimmed down for gaming efficiency. An Xbox OS would revolutionize PC handhelds. Unfortunately I don't think it'll ever happen. But I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not convinced handheld gaming PCs will ever be more than niche just due to the nature of PC gaming, and handheld gaming appeals more to the casual in-and-out type of person. Not casual as in, "57 Party Games!" shovelware, but casual as in, doesn't want to deal with any hassles, just wants to press on and play then press off when done.

It seems to me most gamers who gravitate toward PC as a platform prefer home setups with monitors, or TVs in some cases. But very few seem interested in handhelds. Otherwise I think Steamdeck would have sold much more than 3 million these past 2 years, despite 120+ million active Steam users. Idk why that is, but the sales don't lie. At $400 entry point and just $650 for the high end OLED model, it's not like it's priced PC gamers out or anything.

Unless and until MS releases an Xbox OS for PC that can help push Windows based handhelds, which I sincerely doubt will ever happen, Steamdeck is it. And while I love it- I think it's the best thing to happen to gaming besides the Switch in the past 20 years (well, and Steam Input and gyro aiming, but Switch includes gyro and Steamdeck includes Steam Input so, I'm wrapping them all in one). But it just seems few are interested in playing PC games on a handheld, for whatever reason. It kinda puzzles me because I find games far more enjoyable on Deck than on PS5 or XS or my loud gaming PC, and it has gyro aiming unlike the other consoles, and free online, and can pause any game, and can run emulators like Dolphin for that sweet dual analog gyro Metroid Prime Trilogy with HD texture packs... but ya. Seems I'm in the extreme minority, a group about as large as PSVR players are.

@JaxonH
People always cite Steam Deck sales here but you kinda have to remember that Steam Deck is a product with a very restricted level of retail availability. I mean, if I want a Steam Deck OLED I'd have to buy through a reseller, have it shipped from overseas and I'm certainly spending comfortably over $1000AU. It's also a gen-1 product with all the clunk that goes along with that. Plus it's a device built around convincing people that gaming on Linux is a thing. No doubt it's a compelling product and having Steam behind it certainly gives it some weight but.... it's pushing against the current

I think with the position Microsoft finds themselves in between XBox not doing particularly well ATM, them having a lot of software muscle behind them and a lot of marketing weight with normies. Strong retailer relationships. "XBox OS" being wider than just XBoxes is the play. Again, I don't know if when Microsoft inevitably do this it goes down as well as like the Zune or something but still. It's the play. And I think the hardware is only going to make that product more and more compelling as the years go on

And you know, Switch for most of its life had over half of all console sales. Some of that is certainly just Switch being a hit and Nintendo's IP in general. But I think a lot of it is just that people like powerful portable gaming devices. And think that level of power is largely good enough most of the time. I think that market only grows bigger over time so..... I wouldn't say the portable market generally is niche. There's space for more than one product here, portable PCs seem to have the strongest hand ATM

There's almost no way Switch 2 will take off as well as Switch did - Switch came during a real lull in handheld and Nintendo hardware, few people cared for the N3DS, Wii U or Vita, but now the market has been pretty well satiated by Switch. Switch 2 will be welcomed, but I doubt it will catch fire in quite the same way, not unless the launch year software is irresistible. And if it doesn't soar, modern culture is to call anything that doesn't break records a flop. So a competitor could see it as a ripe time to spice up the market and take some share.

Just make Mario Kart 9 a banger that blows MK8D out the water and you'll be fine though, N.

Yeah, the Switch was the first to market with the successful hybrid model. You can only be first once. The hybrid model won't be AS novel, but thats's fine. Just give us good games, more power (so we can play modern games), and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, give us ANALOG TRIGGERS for racing games & throttle control.

The fact that Nintendo never made an official controllers with analog triggers is appalling, and it crippled the market for racing games for the whole Switch generation. If you can make steering wheels, and and other BS accessories (thigh strap for Switch Sports), you can make a controller with analog triggers.🤣

@gcunit
I agree with that. Switch 2 won't reach the heights of Switch, that's for sure. But it'll still comfortably reach 100m+. Switch will break the PS2 record though. And that's probably never gonna be touched again afterward.

@skywake
There's definitely room in the handheld market, I just don't ever see handheld PCs, of any kind, Steamdeck or not, being the ones to capture it.

Steamdeck would do better if it had full availability, but that hasn't really helped the other PC handhelds despite listings on Amazon. I don't think it would make that much of a difference. Reason devices like this have limited availability is because they know demand is low, so they'd rather not give up that retailer cut on the few sales they do get.

I think Linux is a selling point. SteamOS is so much simpler to use than Windows. It feels like a dedicated console rather than a PC. I know a lot of ppl who bought a Deck specifically because it's simplified like a console, and would never dream of buying a full Windows handheld.

But we'll see. I don't expect anything to change in the next 10 years. I expect Switch 2 to come and go, sell about 100-120m, with Steamdeck being followed by Steamdeck 2 and Steamdeck 3, capping out at around 5-10m. I see Windows handhelds continuing to remain niche without ever really breaking further ground. And Xbox, I see them simply offering streaming as an option, and ignoring the handheld market (though I agree that would be the play, but I have no faith in them pursuing it).

In the end it doesn't really matter. I'm going to continue to use Switch and Deck, or Switch 2 and Deck 2, or whatever combination is currently available. Unless MS integrated KB/M support on a system level and then incorporated gyro in a handheld, and mapping mouse to gyro on a system level, I have no interest in any handheld they might produce anyways.

@skywake
Btw, did you dive into Steamdeck and/or PC handhelds? If not, I highly recommend Steamdeck OLED. It's the perfect compliment to Switch OLED.

Get these Mobapad M6 HD joycon and a Switch OLED to use them with, get a 2TB 2230 NVMe and a Steamdeck OLED to use it with, get 1.5 TB microSD cards for each of them, and you're officially set with the single greatest duo of video game hardware conceived by man.

Of course, you gotta download Emudeck and use it to install Emulation Station on the Deck, and throw a few hundred gigs of your favorite games on there. I loaded it with NES, SNES, Genesis, GBA, N64, a half dozen PSP games I'll actually play and about a dozen GameCube and Wii games I'll actually play. Looking at my folder of 200 GC/Wii games I was like nah, I'm not gonna play 90% of these. Not gonna waste the space on em. Let's just pick the 10 best games that also work well on Dolphin in handheld mode (so no Metroid Other M, setting controls for that is a serious pain). But stuff like DKC Returns, Zelda Windwaker, Zelda Twilight Princess, Sin & Punishment 2 (works surprisingly well with gyro active for the Wiimote aiming), Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Paper Mario (TTYD is coming to Switch, and Skyward Sword is on Switch, as is Mario Galaxy, stuff like that can be safely omitted).

Having 2 handhelds with OLED screens and gyro aiming, that covers Xbox, PS and Nintendo exclusives and 90% of multiplats (some aren't compatible through Proton, or are exclusive to Epic Game Store or Ubisoft launcher- stuff like Trials Rising, Kingdom Hearts games, Alan Wake 2, etc) just feels like peak efficiency. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled now but, not having portability or gyro aiming for a game I buy, that's a dealbreaker as far as I'm concerned.

After acclimating to the battery life of Switch OLED and Steamdeck OLED, I can't even imagine trying to play on those Windows handhelds where AAA games get 60-70 minutes. The AyaNeo Kun solves this with a 75 Whr battery, but at the cost of weighing nearly 1,000 grams. For comparison, Steamdeck is 670 grams, Steamdeck OLED is 640 grams, and Switch OLED is 400 grams. Deck OLED is about as heavy as I can handle without it feeling too heavy. We need a Win handheld with a 75 Whr battery and which weighs under 650 grams. Seems like the holy grail of Win handhelds atm. It would be nice to have one that played Trials Rising and all the games Deck can't. Side loading Windows off a microSD could be an option, if they ever perfect the drivers.

Once Switch 2 releases though, I'm hoping it picks up ports of the games Deck can't run. Like Prince of Persia on Switch is fantastic, and extremely fortunate given its not sold on Steam and must be ran via Ubisoft launcher. Switch 2, hopefully it gets native ports of all the KH games, Alan Wake 2, the next Trials game, etc.

@JaxonH
You're probably right but I think there's still a fair chance that something else comes along that steals some of the market Switch has found. I mean we brought up the PS2's record breaking sales here, where did those sales go? They didn't disappear. The next generation there were more sales it's just Sony was down ~70mill while Nintendo gained ~80mill and MS ~60mill

I don't think you move Switch tier numbers and not have some competitor come out with something that reclaims some of that market. I mean sure, Swtich 2 probably hits around 100mill. But where did those other ~50mill go in that prediction? And at this stage I think this new category of "portable PCs" will be the way its done

Also yes, you're right about "Linux" being a selling point. But that's not because it's Linux. I love that Linux gaming is taking off don't get me wrong, I used Linux on my main PC from like 2007-2010 and I still regularly tinker around with little Linux boxes. But compatibility is still a barrier. The only reason they've got it to work is that they've cleverly recognised that the biggest barrier to PC gaming is optics. People are scared of it because it's "complicated". Throw up a nice dash and get the marketing right? Valve has shown you can overcome that. Someone else will do the same and, frankly, Microsoft is really the only other player who can do it

I don't have a huge amount of confidence that Microsoft will stick the landing. If they don't I think Switch 2 probably gets a clear run again and maybe their competition is a portable from someone else. But in terms of risk for Switch 2? I think PC portables pose the greatest risk. Not that they'll sink it but.... risk in a similar way to Nintendo and Microsoft were risks for the PS3. I don't think a hypothetical "Xbox Go" overtakes Switch 2 but.... I could see it stealing 20-30mill

@JaxonH
RE: What hardware I have/intend to get for this next "cycle". I think Switch 2 is central, 4K output with HDR basically means that I'd have no reason to get pretty much any lighter games on PC anymore. I'll still have my desktop which I need for work and I'll still do the old hardware shuffle as I upgrade that over time. Which is 4060Ti now (i.e. 2x the compute of the PS5) so plenty enough power and I'll still probably lean towards it for larger titles as well as my backlog. And of course I spend a lot of gaming time playing strategy games and sims so, PC is the way to go for those. But I think Switch 2 when it comes out steals a lot of my attention. I mean, Switch already does because it's one button to start but still. Once you've seen 4K with HDR at relatively high framerates it's hard to go back to 720p SDR sub 30fps.... Switch 2 will close that gap

On the portable side? I have a laptop right now that I rarely use, I have little intention of getting a new one because this laptop is good enough for playing BluRay rips and typing which is all I do on it. I also have an older Android tablet which I got years ago for "Netflix in bed on a lazy Sunday morning" but could easily just not exist. If I want portable I use my phone if I want a larger screen I take my laptop. But really, I honestly don't think I bother buying a laptop or a tablet again. If I was to get a new device of that size it's going to be a portable gaming PC. If I was to grab one right now? Due to availability it'd probably be the ROG Ally. But I think I want to see this segment mature a bit

But for me, I like even more portable devices. The RG35XX+I got recently, does emulation of everything upto around N64/PS/DC/DS tier. Which means I can throw on all my old SNES/GB/MS ROMs on there as well as some stuff like Cave Story and even some old DOS games. Of course, it'd be nice if it could also do GC/Wii/3DS and the lack of a touch screen/analogue sticks does limit it a tad. But at this point in time it's my go-to portable gaming device. Been playing a fair bit of Pokemon Pinball, did a run through of Crystal but also Donkey Kong Country, Advance Wars, Mario Kart DS (calm down, I own them all in some form). For me this is one of the more exciting categories but.... it's super niche and, frankly, a tad sketchy and will never go mainstream

Switch 2 again though, going to chew up a lot of that portable gaming space

@skywake
I love that Deck OLED is now my default emulator for everything up through GameCube and Wii. But I've seen those handhelds for emulating up through N64 and they look super convenient. I just like the gyro aiming integrated through Steam Input so Deck is especially favorable in that regard

I just sent my brand new Switch OLED (Splatoon 3 special edition) off to get a mod-chip installed. I like the Emuiibo app which you can pull up in game to scan in any amiibo digitally. I own every amiibo so I can dump all mine. Plus mod managers and sys-clk to overclock. Will be able to smooth out performance for most games like Monster Hunter Stories 2. That'll become 720p 60fps locked. And Persona 5 Royal even has a resolution mod that increases it to 720p handheld and doesn't even require overclocking. Which makes me wonder, why didn't the devs do it in the release? It boggles my mind.

In any case, I already own every game digitally, but being able to access any amiibo through a menu, and smoothing out performance in handheld to 720p with locked 30 or 60 in games that struggle a bit or have an uncapped framerate, that alone makes it worthwhile. Plus Retroarch to emulate NES, SNES, N64, GB, GBA, Genesis, and I'm not sure about GC/Wii but if it can handle it, those too. If not, I have Deck. And ya know, custom themes and menu layouts and save backups and save editing... all that jazz is appreciated too.

I modded my 3DS back in the day, but got lazy with Switch and didn't have the energy to bother. Plus I wanted the OLED hacked, and you need a modchip for those. So I waited until the end of the generation so all the homebrew could mature, and being the final year of Switch, I decided it's time to move forward with the modchip for Switch OLED.

If overclocking can fix Trials Rising in handheld mode, I'm gonna be so happy. Cause it won't play on Deck. And just ironing out small issues in the Trails of Cold Steel games, Dragon Quest Builders 2, Zelda BotW, Xenoblade 1 and 2 (wonder if I can get handheld res up to 720p? OC may not do it if the game is capped to a lower res, but perhaps there's a mod to raise the cap like with Persona 5 Royal)... it's not gonna magically fix games that have major issues. But small framerate issues, dynamic res drops, uncapped framerates... those are the games it can push to 720p 30 locked or 720p 60 locked. And OLED has enough battery life for it to still have respectable playtime even after being OC.

Only $120 for the modchip and labor installing, plus loading it up with apps, including shipping round trip. I don't think that's bad at all. To me, that's worth the price to improve performance in tons of games and have digital amiibo in a menu and save backups and game backups, etc.

For some reason i just wanna say that i love my switch, and cant wait til switch 2 releases!

@JaxonH The first two Xenoblade games vary pretty significantly in terms of their undocked display resolution, so I don't see what the point of a cap would be. It's already adaptive.

Halfway tempted to repurchase MHS2 on Deck just to experience it without the stuttering and dips. Apparently it runs very well with a 45fps cap.

@Ralizah
It does. Though personally I started using a 40fps cap which feels very close to 60, then with the OLED I started using 36fps with 72 hz refresh rate, which feels identical to 40. Amazing what a difference 6 frames makes with a proper refresh rate. Yet the battery life is essentially as good as 30. Highly recommend, proud member of the 36fps master race 😀

I look forward to playing on my chipped Switch OLED though, where I have a 20 hr save file. My Steam save file is only 5 hrs or so.

@DennisNOR Can't remember if it was last night or this morning, but sometime recently I had pretty much the same thought, like I just wanted to get online and declare my love for Switch only gets stronger with each passing year.

Speaking of passing years (and this may have had something to do with the above), but I was talking to a family member (generation younger than me) yesterday about Switch and Smash Bros. and I put my Smash game card in my Switch to show them the game. In doing so, it threw up the Save Data Cloud check screen and I noticed my last save was dated 2019. How the Reggie-Fils-Aime have I not played Smash for 4 years!?! And where the Miyamoto have those 4 years gone?!?

I also think its tragic how little I've played Smash Bros. And I'm sure I put at least 70 hours into it, but that's actually not enough. Even ignoring that Melee was my most played game ever even before Brawl came out, there's so much to that game that I just want to play so much more.

I think a combination of other games and my complete lack of interest in Smash online and difficulties in playing local multiplayer in recent years really took away a lot of time I could've spent on it.