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Topic: Darksiders (maybe) confirmed for Switch? :D

Posts 21 to 40 of 52

JaxonH

@FaeKnight
Ok, reviewers do not get paid for reviews. They just don't. It's been confirmed it doesn't happen, time and time again, and any reviewer accepting a bribe in exchange for a score would be ostracized 10x more than Philip Muicin for plagiarism. It just doesn't happen, and even if it ever did happen it would be an isolated event. Not a systemic issue.

If anyone is likely to be influenced by outside sources, it would be the "actual gamers" on YouTube where the developers send them free stuff and they feel guilty about it and give the game a slightly higher score as a result.

You can't just make accusations of bribery because you don't like the outcome of reviews.

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FaeKnight

@JaxonH Go ahead and believe that if you want. There's been many documented cases of major publications being paid by a publisher for a good review. As well as documented cases of reviewers being pressured to change their review scores upwards or being fired for not giving good reviews. But go ahead and believe it never happens.

That aside, as I said. The games are fun. The voice acting is solid, and the story lines are interesting if somewhat forgettable. Level design and game play mechanics are okay. If you enjoy action games, they are a solid choice. But they're not anything special either. I do enjoy them though.

FaeKnight

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JaxonH

@FaeKnight
So, to make such a claim and change my mind, first you're going to need to show evidence of a game reviewer being bribed, and then you're going to need to show evidence that it's currently a systemic issue and not a one off immoral act such as Philip Muicin plagiarizing, which is a perfect example of one particular individual having a moral failing but in no way represents reviewers at large as a general rule.

And you'd have to prove it's the general rule because the aggregate scores aren't going to be affected by one single moral failing of an individual. Even so, I'd be shocked if you could even present evidence of that. But I'll stay open minded as I await your evidence.

That being said, even if you did prove it was a systemic issue, it would only prove it's a systemic issue across the board, meaning all other games would be affected as well. Meaning the comparison of scores to other games would still be valid. It falls in the top 10% no matter which way you slice it.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
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XSX:
PS5:

Jesus is Lord.

bluemage1989

@FaeKnight come on pal you can't really think the whole industry is conspiring to give better reviews to those willing to pay?? I mean if you can actually back that claim up I will stand corrected but I have yet to see anything ever claiming it was an industry wide problem.

As for 'real gamers' how do you define real gamers?? Being a gamer is my opinion more valid than say IGNs??

bluemage1989

deadpixels

FaeKnight wrote:

We are talking about the same games, right? Darksiders, the games about War and Death of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse? Games which are kind of fun, but very forgettable due to trying to mix Devil May Cry style combat (they didn't pull this off btw) with Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider style platforming that just misses the mark and puzzles so uninspired that I'm pretty sure they recycled the puzzles from the 1st game into the 2nd one?

If you want an Action Platformer, they aren't a bad choice. But I'd suggest Bayonetta before Darksiders. And I'm not that excited about Bayonetta. Don't get me wrong, I liked Darksiders 2 enough when I tried it at my dad's house to buy my own copy of it. But it's an average game at best.

Yes, we are talking about the same games. I really tried to get into DMC and just couldn't, same goes for PoP. Tomb Raider was more puzzles than action, don't know how it fairs now as I'm not really a fan of the series.

War's sword just felt right. the weight of the combat felt right. Demons V's Angels... Man, the western culture is so steeped in this faith that whether you believe in it or not, you can't help but be influenced by it. I found the concept exciting! Being one of the renegade nephilim that chose power over kinship. It's bold and I dig it.

I guess for me the characters made the game, I cared about the story as it intrigued me. Can't say the same for the other games and I'm dubious about the sexual connotations of Bayonetta, which also looks a lot like DMC.

Edited on by deadpixels

deadpixels

FaeKnight

Just doing a couple minutes of searching came up with the following:

https://kotaku.com/5893785/yes-a-games-writer-was-fired-over-...

https://www.gamepur.com/news/27626-nba-2k18-review-controvers...

https://kotaku.com/5520937/do-not-trust-this-magazines-review...

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/driv3r.htm

The problem of professional reviewers being paid to give a good review by publishers is a long standing and systemic one. The better ones will refuse to bow to the bribery and pressure. But it happens often enough that many stopped trusting those reviews. And the current big name review sites such as IGN or Gamespot aren't immune to it. But that's the last I'm going to say on the subject, because it is off topic. If you want more evidence, it's readily available. All you have to do is look.

Regarding "real" gamers vs Professional Reviewers, you do know that professional game journalists often don't actually play the games, right? The recent controversy over a game journalist getting stuck for 20 minutes in the Cuphead tutorial because "Jump then Dash at the jump's apex" was too advanced of a concept for him is just one of the more public and egregious examples. And from what I've seen, the point he got stuck in the tutorial is more forgiving then the actual game (or many other similar tutorials). But this is again off topic, so it'll be the last I say on the subject too. More information is readily available if you go looking for it though.

FaeKnight

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Dogorilla

@FaeKnight That Cuphead controversy was one of the stupidest controversies I've seen. He wasn't stuck on the tutorial for 20 minutes; it took him 2 and a half minutes. He was struggling with the game's first level, and even the tutorial to an extent, but why does it matter? It wasn't a review of the game, it was a preview, where he was playing the demo at an event; most of his articles are not reviews, but focus on other parts of the games industry. And he didn't claim to be good at the game, or at any game. He just posted a preview video of him messing around in Cuphead, and it somehow became a target for so-called Gamergaters to claim the whole games journalism industry is incapable of playing games. The journalist in question, Dean Takahashi, wrote an article about it here (bear in mind there's some strong language): https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/08/the-deanbeat-our-cuphead-r...

The idea that game journalists don't play the games they're reviewing is ludicrous but, as you say, this is off-topic, so I'll leave it there.

Anyway, in response to the actual topic: I think there's a good chance of Darksiders coming to the Switch. The devs clearly care about Nintendo as they were one of the very few third-parties who released a Wii U game in 2017.

"Remember, Funky's the Monkey!"

Funky Kong
bluemage1989

@FaeKnight as the Kotaku article states it is just rumours and I think that's all it would be. I highly doubt like I said that there is an industry wide conspiracy to rig game scores. As for professional reviewers not being gamers I find it hard to believe anyone would go into the business unless they had a love of games because well common sense. But I agree this is off topic so that's all I have to say on it.

bluemage1989

ThanosReXXX

@FaeKnight I've put several links in my first comment to you, with the complete overview of scores from multiple sites, big outlets, and aggregate scores from Game Rankings and Metacritic. Scores that count for every game, not just for Darksiders. And as we all know, Metacritic also mentions user scores, so there goes your the ridiculous notion about sites getting paid/bribed to write a good review, because like @JaxonH said, that isn't going to affect aggregate scores, and even if it would, then it would affect ALL games, making the point moot again in the process.

On occasion, weird and/or shady stuff may happen in any industry, but we can't just generalize and summarize an entire game journalism industry into one single bad thing that might have happened. And as I said, the aggregate scores count up along with user scores. Also, if a medium-sized developer such as Vigil games was, had to pay all those sites mentioned in the links I gave you, then they would have to throw away a considerable part of their profit towards that end, and even typing that, I already see how infinitely stupid and ridiculous that notion is.

But I see that other smart people on here have already called you out. And quoting Kotaku, which in itself is hardly a reliable source, and has been the topic of some controversy itself? And those other two sites you mentioned, are another source that nobody has ever heard of.

I come up with multiple links, which mention practically all the scores from the larger, more well-known web sites AND two aggregate score sites, you come up with questionable sources and rumors. Do the math...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

FaeKnight

sighs

Publishers have bought good reviews from major magazines and sites and put pressure on magazines/sites to raise low scores. This doesn't always happen, and the review magazines/sites don't always accept the bribe. But it has happened, it does happen, and it will continue to happen. Likely it happens more often then anyone not in the industry realizes. Claiming otherwise is just putting your head in the metaphorical sand and ignoring the evidence.

Youtube isn't immune to this either, but it's less endemic since anyone with a webcam can post a video of them reviewing games. It's also becoming harder for publishers to get away with such things due to, again, anyone being able to post videos of game play that shows the a glitchy mess of a game is a glitchy mess. For the longest time, that wasn't the case. Publishers could get away with paying for a good review because those reviews were the only way people would get news about a game before it's launch. Even then a bad game that got good reviews was still a bad game, and word of mouth would spread. Now it just spreads much much faster.

That aside, while it's not a game set I'd highly recommend Darksiders 1 and 2 are fun. They would make a solid addition to the console's library even if they aren't the best games available in their genre. Being an average but fun game isn't a bad thing. Not every game can be one that everyone agrees is amazing. I don't regret buying both games. They are solid action games, and they are fun to play. There's better games on the market, but there's worse ones too. Don't make the mistake of me saying the games are average means I think they are bad. I don't. They just don't exactly stand out from the pack. Dante's Inferno is another game that I'd classify as average. It's fun, and I enjoy the game. But it's not a great game.

FaeKnight

Switch Friend Code: SW-6813-5901-0801 | Twitter:

bluemage1989

@FaeKnight I think claiming the industry is corrupt is likely just bitterness at low scores for games you liked not reviewing better and disappointment that high scoring purchases didn't live up to expectations. If you want to believe that the industry can't be trusted that's your choice it would be impossible to convince you otherwise but I'd rather listen to them with there back catalogue of work then these YouTube 'stars'.

bluemage1989

bluemage1989

@ThanosReXXX unless Thanos has a YouTube channel haha!! He's one of a few people on here whos opinions I'd trust and think would make an insightful and interesting listen.

bluemage1989

redd214

Lol wow this thread took a left turn!

redd214

CamuCamu

ReaderRagfish wrote:

@redd214 I guess you could say it turned to the Dark Side?

Ba dum tss

Always come to the dark side, we have cookies

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ThanosReXXX

@bluemage1989 Thanks very much for the compliment, much appreciated. However, having said that, don't ever just take my word, or anyone's word on something, for that matter. I'm a big advocate for people making up their own minds, having a right to their own opinion, and having certain principles. With the exception that they only do all that, as long as it's not working against them.

In this case, much like you already stated, it seems like a personal opinion, or perhaps even something that happened and influenced him negatively, that experience is taking precedence over all-encompassing facts that clearly show the opposite of what is claimed.

It is generalization, and that's a shame. It's like saying all Italians must be criminals, just because the Italians that you happen to know, are members of the Mafia. They are the exception, NOT the rule. Much like with these reviews (arguably) being bought, and/or sites being bribed.

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, or that it doesn't happen, but what I actually AM saying, and what smart people like JaxonH also explained (or try to explain, because much like any other explanation, it has been brushed aside without even considering we might be on to something here), is that in the larger scheme of things, one or even two sites coming up with fake review scores, isn't really going to have any significant effect, and the aggregate scores I linked to, show that both Darksiders games have an aggregate score of above 8, and that is anything BUT average.

Average is anything between 5 and 7, and anything above that ranges from good to great. So the games are universally judged as being good games, in their genre, no if's and's or but's about it.

And the links he provided to prove his point, are from Kotaku, a site with quite the sketchy reputation itself, and two other sites that nobody has ever heard of. Hardly reputable sources. Put that against reviews from sites like IGN, GameSpot, GameInformer, Play, EuroGamer, GamesRadar, 1UP, GamePro and GameZone, coupled with aggregate scores from MetaCritic and GameRankings, sites that ALSO incorporate user reviews, and it would seem pretty clear to me, which sources to trust, and which ones not...

But unfortunately, people with their minds made up, or living in a reality of their own, will often times defend it to the end, no matter how dumb or uninformed it makes them look in the process. And not being able to cope with that, and subsequently continuing to state your opinion as fact, and then sighing because they can't get other people to believe their dumb assumptions, only makes me disregard their baseless ramblings even more.

It was ultimately a waste of my precious time and energy, to try and have an open-minded discussion about this, because some people just don't possess the capacity, or the will, to do that.

P.S.

Don't hold your breath for me opening a YouTube channel, though: I'd have an extra day job removing/blocking all the offensive idiots commenting on what I'd have to say...

And I wouldn't want to bend the knee by making videos where I would have to disable commenting. For me, it's all or nothing, so in this case, that would be nothing, seeing as I think that the majority of the YouTube commenting community is highly toxic, and I've little time or patience for intolerant and/or close-minded idiots.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

bluemage1989

@ThanosReXXX that was a very mature response sadly not everyone can manage that on these forums. I'll be the first to admit that I myself can be a little hasty with my words but I always try to keep an open mind and form my own opinion based on the facts. I feel that people such as yourself and Jaxon and a few others on these forums do a fantastic job of posting well thought out knowledgeable comments that present facts and sources and help people to make informed thoughts based on them. The fact that you do do when often people choose to state baseless opinions as fact I think shows the signs of a man who should be in the gaming media (if not YouTube then a podcast or written but I think the toxic element can be found in a lot of places sadly) I really wish I had the time to write as considered comments as yourself but I sadly don't have the time or patience of yourselves to share my own gaming knowledge in any form of depth (two kids three jobs!!).

I think what I'm getting at here is keep up the good work guys as I do enjoy reading the thoughtful words you put down on the site!!

bluemage1989

ThanosReXXX

@bluemage1989 Well, all I can say to that is thanks again, and on a side note: if at 48 years old, I would still not have learned to conduct myself in a civil and open-minded manner, then my old man would still have a mind to put some sense in to me with a quick slap across the face. In general, some of the more younger people on here, and especially a large part of the online community as a whole, on this little mud ball called Earth, could most certainly do with slapping some sense into them...

P.S.

Don't sell yourself short there. You may not be as eloquent or elaborate as some other people, but you do come across as a good and open-minded person, and at the end of the day, that is really all that matters.

Cheers.

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

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