Topic: Nintendo gave us what most players have been parading for. Why the complaints?

@Jester676
I've said repeatedly it's not as simple as saying it's comparable to one console or another. It's an NVidia/ARM SoC so it's not the same as either PS4 or PS5. But it shares some of the more modern conveniences and features that PS5 has but PS4 lacks. Which means, like the PS5, it can do some things easily that the PS4 would have had to use significantly more resources to achieve

But at the core of it, in terms of raw compute, it's much closer to PS4 than PS5. So if a studio is just porting their games from the PS4 code directly without any consideration for the more advanced hardware features? The game will be closer to PS4 than PS5. Period

If they use some of those features or build for Switch 2 from the ground up? Different story. And you'll see games that are doing some things the PS4 certainly couldn't do. But even then, it won't be at the same level of performance as the PS5. Because it doesn't have the same amount of resources available

It's kinda like giving two people the same amount of resources to finish the same tasks. But one of those people has specific skills the first person lacks. If the task happens to engage those skills? The person who has those skills can complete the task much faster. But when it doesn't they'll finish at around the same time

Idk why some people get insecure over the fact the Switch 2's best point of comparison is PS4/PS4 Pro, and somehow convince themselves it's closest comparison is to a PS5. It's flat earth theory. Worse, even. At least with flat earthers there's no immediately obvious evidence the world is round from just walking on the surface. So that ignorance can at least somewhat be comprehended. But there is plenty of immediately obvious evidence Switch 2 is most closely matched to the PS4, not to mention basic common sense that a 10W mini-tablet sized handheld won't come anywhere near the most current cindreblock-sized power console drawing hundreds of watts from an outlet.

@kedireturns
It's not that games can't be optimized to run on Series S, it's just that the value proposition isn't there. How many additional sales could be potentially garnered by selling to Series S owners, when Xbox gamers in general buy the fewest games already. If Series S had an install base skyrocketing to 100 million those games would suddenly find themselves running on the system. Lo and behold! Guess they can run after all!

I do agree that GTA6 will most likely not come to the system but I don't think it's impossible. Not because I'm deluded about the power of Switch 2, but because any game can be made to run on any system, it's just a question of how much custom work needs to be put in to optimize specifically for that platform. Tone settings down just like PC ranges from Ultra to Low, output at 720p handheld and 1080p docked (maybe even use Nintendo's patent using a special technique rendering at 540p with DLSS to 1080p), both at 30fps, and from there start tweaking as needed wherever there's a bottleneck on the heat map. It could be done. I just dont think they care enough to bother.

Portable PS4 was the expected level of performance before Switch 2 was announced. The newer SoC and system level tech (DLSS) makes it perform closer to a PS4 Pro. The only aspect that draws comparisons between the Switch 2 and a PS5 is the use of an SSD. Better load times, less pop-in because assets are being moved more quickly.

Even though the PS5 is almost five years old, comparing the Switch 2 to the PS5 would be the false narrative here. It's a fancier PS4 with a 2019 SoC. Nintendo have carved out the Switch brand by repackaging ancient tech and offering it as a compelling secondary device option.

That's the DF narrative again that been debunked too many times. In comparison that PS4 doesn't have this update.
Final Fantasy 7 Remake Intergrade Nintendo Switch 2 vs PS5 Early Graphics Comparison

This is another DF narrative that falls completely short. Switch 2 is more closer to PS5 performance then people give it credit for. It can come closer to PS5 but not hardware performance levels. But that is lost because people follow DF narrative.

These are the exactly what DF wants to hear...

@Jester676

Hey, if you want to set yourself up for disappointment, there's nothing wrong with copium.

PS5 Slim runs Cyberpunk 2077 between 40-60 fps and the Switch 2 demo ran at what?

40 fps (at best) when docked, 20 to 30 fps in handheld, correct?

@Magician Well then don't buy the game when it releases for Switch 2 if that's how you feel about a game coming to Switch 2 that badly. Guess when the comparison shows them otherwise they get grumpy now.

@Magician
Why does this person assume you're not interested in the game just because you're not deluded into thinking it's comparable to PS5? As if anything less than that is undesirable, even when on a portable system (btw most have said it runs pretty great and even better in handheld, it's just that DF stress tested it by going to the most demanding area and letting cops pile up to like 15 officers, which they themselves even said was the most they'd ever seen at once, because they keep coming until you die or escape, and then said it had framerate issues... but that's an extreme case scenario most won't encounter- the ones who played normally said they didn't notice any drops or if they did, they were far and few between, just fyi)

As if one can't be excited for a game with PS4/Pro level visuals and performance on a hybrid handheld console? As if thats something to be soooo ashamed of that nobody could possibly want that.

What is even your point here? It's nonsense. As @JaxonH said,

I think one of my earliest posts in this thread was literally saying that Switch 2 being more comparable to PS4 than PS5 was not an issue. Specifically calling out the fact that people have generally been reluctant to migrate from PS4 to PS5

Not going back through my posts here but I've probably also called out the gaming ready hardware I have. I have a desktop PC with a PS5-Pro adjacent GPU, a Switch OLED and a Steam Deck OLED. Right now? Most of my gaming time is on my Steam Deck. Mostly Balatro if I'm being honest but I was playing a bit of Rayman Origins, Halo Master Chief Collection and Jedi Fallen Order. And TBH I'm not entirely sure if I've even played my Switch at all this year so far.....

Why Steam Deck? Well, because outside of Nintendo exclusive titles of which there really haven't been many this year I prefer the additional power of the Steam Deck. So there's little reason for me to bother with the Switch. But on the other side, even when plugged into a HDMI dock and playing on a TV, it's not as good as what my PC can output but it's good enough for the kinds of games I usually find myself playing. Good enough that I see no reason why I would bother dragging my desktop into the living room or forking out cash for a PS5

And the Switch 2? ..... it's basically a slot-in replacement for Steam Deck in my current setup. Plus the Nintendo exclusives coming out for the rest of the year. Plus the more user-friendly docking experience. Other than the whole portable emulator king side of the Steam Deck and the fact that it's also literally a PC and a fairly effective laptop replacement for me? Oh, and the Steam/Epic/GOG/etc library I have. I don't really see a need for me to have a Steam Deck post Switch 2

I currently have Cyberpunk 2077 sitting on my Steam wishlist. Haven't picked it up yet, not really that keen on it. But post Switch 2 launch if I was to get it I would get it on Switch 2 instead of Steam. Because I know I'm not playing it on my desktop and Switch 2, post launch, will become the best platform for portable/couch gaming. And yes, that's with me saying the Switch 2 is closer to PS4 than PS5

Another rather compelling thought/anecdote. I'm going on Holidays after Easter, I'm currently sitting here thinking about what devices I throw into my carry on bag. So I can play some stuff during the waiting around that's often a part of flights

As it stands? I think my Steam Deck is going in the bag along with headphones, small portable battery, charging cables/adapters. But Steam Deck and its case is rather bulky so it's a bit rough. I might throw an iPad in there because it's a bigger screen for movies and such and doesn't take up much space. It should be good, even if I will miss out on re-enacting the with split-joycon Mario Kart at the airport scene

If this was after Switch 2? I would take Switch 2 and a laptop

Excuse triple post but another thought/observation RE power comparisons. From what I understand it from a CPU perspective Switch 2 sits between PS4 and PS5 fairly comfortably. Especially if you account for the file decompression block. A large part of this is due to the fact that early 2021s AMD CPUs were..... underwhelming.... but regardless, Switch 2 holds it's own on the CPU side

But on the GPU side? Switch 2 is seriously resource constrained due to its size and power budget (I'm talking watts here). It does have all sorts of modern tricks it can pull of but in terms of raw power it's not THAT much more capable than PS4

What does this mean? Well. If you're playing a heavily CPU bound game or are wanting to do something like push a fairly graphically simple game to stupid high frame rates? Switch 2 is going to smoke the PS4. If you want to play something storage intensive where you're leaping through portals into different worlds? Same deal. Switch 2 is comfortably "current gen"

If however you're wanting to play a slow paced, non CPU bound game that was struggling to hit 30fps on PS4 at 1080p but has a higher resolution/frame rate port for PS5? Don't go expecting miracles. Games such as this will broadly perform like they did on PS4. Maybe with some higher resolution textures, better load times and some DLSS to cover the cracks

That's what people are saying but people aka DF keep saying it's PS4 levels when at end of the day it's not. The Youtube demo by Cycu1 for comparisons already shows it's more capable then PS4 but not hardware levels of PS5 that can't never happen. It's got a newer CPU/GPU with RT/DLSS to boost it's performance and now AAA titles are scambling to showcase their AAA titles on Switch 2.

That's to be expected for a Hybrid Console system. But it's more capable then PS4 Nvidia has said as much. And Cycu1 comparisons have already shown as much. Switch 2 is using 2025 hardware not PS4 2013 hardware and has custom built GPU for that reason with more RAM to help. Probably more but Nvidia isn't going to tell since that is a exclusive GPU for Switch 2.

The comparisons provided by Cycu1 already shows it is more then capable compared PS4 and some Game Devs already said as much aka CyberPunk 2077, FF7 intergrade, Split Fiction.

It's already said many times over Switch 5 is on par with PS5 but not when it comes to raw hardware performance that it's limits of what Switch 2 can do. DLSS/RT becomes a major factor to keep Switch 2 going and why else is AAA titles coming? Nintendo isn't paying them to come over they seen and want that market share now as they found out the hard-way with 150mils unit and billions of game sales you wonder who got the better of the other.

@Jester676
Going to be blunt, it's probably not worth me responding to your posts on this topic if you keep ignoring what I'm saying here

@skywake
That sounds about right.

And that's the problem with comparisons. They make sense in some respects but less in others. Most modern AAA games will largely be comparable to PS4/Pro. Buuut for games that aren't pushing the limits of the hardware, higher framerates and resolutions will definitely be possible. Perhaps even raytraced reflections in a game or two.

But the load times are a huge differentiator. Switch 2 internal storage is 1.5-2x faster than SATA SSDs. And external storage via microSD Express is currently 1.5x the speed of SATA SSDs. Thats going to give us PS5/XS load times. It's not as fast as the NVMe storage of those systems but Ive learned firsthand that once you reach SATA SSD speeds the returns are extremely diminished. My gaming PC has x1 2TB NVMe and x2 4TB SATA SSDs, and load times are practically the same regardless of where I install a game. Plus Switch 2 games won't be loading in assets that are as large in file size. So load times may ironically end up just as fast as other consoles. Or at least, close enough the difference is negligible.

Thats a massive improvement over the PS4- probably the biggest differentiator that will be blatantly obvious across the board. And I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say I speak for everyone here: Switch load times were seriously irritating. A Hat In Time was practically unplayable. Fast Traveling in Zelda BotW and TotK was an aggravation. Sure, you adapt and live with it but after playing Xenoblade Chronicles X with its virtually nonexistent fast travel loading screens (a miraculous feat btw), it reminded me how much I'm going to appreciate the ultra-fast storage of Switch 2. I'd forgotten how nice it is to not have to deal with long loading screens.

@JaxonH
Yeah, I think (and maybe @Jester676 should listen to this one) the best way to describe it is to think of a machine's spec not as a single point on a line that says where it is on a scale. But rather a range of points which together tell us how it can perform doing various workloads. And then you throw ontop of that ease of development, the quality of the tools, the money studious are willing to throw at it etc

If we were doing a 1-10 scale where 1 is PS4 and 10 is PS5? It's kinda impossible to place Switch 2 on that line. The closest we can do would be to maybe do that with a range of specs to give us a bit of an idea..... so..... this is where I feel Switch 2 sits on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is PS4 and 10 is PS5

Raw GPU Handheld: 1.5/10
Raw GPU Docked: 4/10
CPU: 5/10
Storage: 8/10
GPU Features: This one goes to 11

@skywake
That response is so good it deserves a patent.

I look at Steamdeck with 1.6 TF, then look at Switch 2 with 1.7 TF handheld and 3.1 TF docked, but which also offers bespoke development optimization, VRR, DLSS and Raytracing (which Star Wars Outlaws features prominently- a game which can't run on SteamDeck btw) and I get a perfect picture of where this console sits with regards to power.

Granted, teraflop comparisons only really make sense between two platforms with extremely similar architectures, like PS4 and Xbox One. Digital Foundry correctly pointed this out responding to a reader's question. But it's not the best point of comparison between an Nvidia mobile chip and the AMD computer chips other consoles have. Still, it sizes up about right. A bit more capable than Steamdeck in handheld, a bit more capable than PS4 when docked. And that's really the best simplification that can be offered.

But the correct, thorough comparison is how you broke it down.

@JaxonH

I'm under the assumption they're going full on contrarian.

Being combative for the sake of laughs.

@Jester676

Who said I felt bad about it coming to Switch 2? It's the game I'm most eager to play on Switch 2 even though my first time playing through the game was on Xbox Series X. It's a great game and I want to see how the port performs for myself. I just have a grounded understanding that I'll be playing the second-worst version of the game (PS4 being the worst).

@Buizel It is the opposite. I have not seen anyone disappointed with Nintendo Switch 2 being aggressive on NL towards the people that are excited about it, but there have been many aggressive replies from the defenders of Nintendo Switch 2, most of them removed now. That aside, I really don't think that people criticising Switch 2 were not buying it anyway, but the opposite, they explain and argue the specific reasons. You might think that people not getting Switch were not going to get it anyway because you were not going to change your mind no matter what. Unconditional fans were going to buy Switch 2 even if it only had last-gen ports and cost $1000, but the vast majority of Nintendo Switch owners are not 100% unconditional Nintendo fans, so it's completely normal for the majority of them to have doubts and dislike things concerning the hardware, pricing and software line-up, the three of them being criticised by many users that supported Nintendo Switch. It's absolutely logical, but the unconditional fans are projecting their excitement as if nothing else exists, while the rest are arguing the good and the bad things about Nintendo Switch 2 and are undecided or have decided to wait and not buy, while respecting those that decided to buy it before the reveal.

I have all Nintendo consoles since the SNES, bar Virtual Boy which did not exist here. I have criticised many things about Nintendo Switch 2, most of them have been mentioned before by many other people, but I'm going to repeat just two of them because since the Direct, they stood out the most, in my opinion. One of them is the focus on paid upgrades, paid fees and paid demos, especially after a generation with fully priced Wii U ports, and the price of the software, that is more expensive than games that are much more expensive to develop than Nintendo's and that have much more advanced technology, graphics, sound, proper voice acting, etc. Since Wii until now, Nintendo's hardware and software were usually cheaper, because it has stayed a generation behind. Nintendo Switch 2 is a big and relatively powerful hybrid console, but the results are at the level of base PS4 when docked, according to Digital Foundry. The multiplatform games available on Switch are at a level, although including some more advanced lighting tricks taken from the current generation.

Some people say that Nintendo will likely include Nintendo Switch 2 editions of games that don't have any additional content in Nintendo's most expensive subscription, and I think that it's quite greedy, because some of those games really struggle to run on Switch properly because of the dated hardware and jumping to its successor apparently means an additional fee on top of the new hardware running the same games. There is one exception which is Link's Awakening and some third-party games, but it should be the norm considering the technical limitations of Nintendo Switch. Maybe if both consoles were top-notch technology of its time, it would be more sensible to charge a bit for adding top-notch features, but we're talking a 1440p and 60fps patch applied to Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, a game that was not even able to reach 30fps outside unofficial emulation. The Nintendo Switch 2 editions are straight ports, because although Nintendo Switch 2 doesn't run Nintendo Switch games in pure, native form, Nintendo is using the same solution that Microsoft used for Xbox 360 games on Xbox One, engineering the code automatically in some kind of translated emulation, while Wii U ports had to be completely ported for Nintendo Switch. Then there is the added content, that would justify the fee and the upgrade, but it seems an excuse to not offer the free upgrade, and the extra content could be available separately. Now that I mentioned Xbox One, on that console and Series X|S, all the upgrades of backwards compatible games are completely free.

Switch 2 is one of the most hyped up systems I've ever seen, which is why the discussion is so thoroughly negative.

It makes YouTubers bank grifting off copycat titles and makes people grow into a cluster of disgusting communities which share the same opinion on a console they were never interested in, to get validation from others

Honestly, it isn't surprising. It's the way of the internet and has been for many years. It's unfortunate, especially if you're constantly online and browsing this content. This has also been the same way for Nintendo in particular every single generation. Every single one.

I honestly stopped reading NL comments on articles because even when the news are 100% positive, people will find a way to undermine and outrage even here, on what I thought was an enthusiastic community overall.

I either suggest just not going online to read opinions as much until the console is actually out, or choose very carefully which sources to follow.

YouTubers and their audience have been conditioned to think they make a big difference but in the grand scheme of things it's just an annoying vocal minority and those cries won't amount to anything other than making the content creator some cash.

The system is already the hottest thing in Japan among many other countries, pre-order numbers have been really high overseas, and we will see what those numbers look like in the US in a couple of days, which is the number one generator of these "social reactions".

I don't mean to sound insensitive here but people have completely lost the plot and have forgotten what real issues in the world look like. It is embarrassing to be causing some crazy fuss on the internet over a toy.

I vented to my boss a little today and he just chuckled and said some people online just forgot what it feels like to get punched in the head, and I completely agree with him. He is also excited for the console. If I spoke to people that I meet on weekends the way I see some host discussions online, I'd be dead by now g.

Sony fanboys and PC Masterrace fanboys are obnoxious. They loves to mock everything which are not part of their own fanbase. They're everywhere and wildly trolling for 24/7 on internet to protecting their beloved fanbase.

Switch 2 is 10x (according to Nvidia themselves) more powerful than Switch. Yet it's still below PS4 Pro which is much less powerful than the "aging" PS5, meanwhile PS6 is not that far away now. So no surprise then that people loves to mocking on Switch 2. Perhaps the biggest gaming site (which I has stopped to reading) from my country laughed straight out on Switch 2 and called it ancient and severely underpowered, they're MASSIVE Sony fanboys + Nintendo hater like 99.8% of internet.

It's impossible to satisfy everyone. Like I has mentioned so many times that TOO many for real think that Switch 2 was going to be as powerful, if not more than PS5 while having 2 Full-HD screens in a clamshell design... I bet that there're discussions about "Switch 2 Pro" or "Switch 3" in some circles already now.

Nintendo will NEVER be able to compete with Sony & Microsoft in specs. Because Sony and Microsoft are willing to selling their console at huge loss to win its current console generation. Nintendo recently for first time since Gamecube gave us a powerful console but with a higher price tag than what majority of the Nintendo fanbase are accustomed to. So no wonder that many are upset now.

I do still think that Switch 2 is way too powerful. 5x jump is enough. So the history will repeat with that Switch 2 will getting numerous inferior ports of newer third-party games along with some "miracle ports" like with Switch.

I won't buy a Switch 2, why in the hell should I pay +$300 extra (just for the console) just because I lives in that stupid country? The $ rate has dropping very rapidly for some weeks now, yet the price of Switch 2 remains unchanged... Just because our own government is corrupted, plus Bergsala is corrupt too.