Topic: Japanese games vs Western games... The big divide.

lol internet debates

Heck yes. Them and Grasshopper Manufacture. I don't like Suda much personally, but I do like what he's doing in bringing Japanese aesthetics to western gamers.

And I don't think most gamers really pay attention to what's made by Japanese or Western developers.

True. Western gamers just don't buy Japanese games. That's the problem. Call of Duty and clones are what dominates the retail shelves. Not Little King's Story (pity, that).

Square Enix bought out Eidos a few years ago, so now they are in charge of the Tomb Raider franchise. Has that helped them out at all?

Yeah, that's been a mutually beneficial relationship. Eidos is benefitting from the increased capital that SE brings to the table - Eidos productions are far more expensive than they would ever have been as an independent company, and in turn SE is reaping the rewards from having a whole bunch of new, popular IPs on the table (Croft, Hitman, Deus Ex).

SE has a history of doing right by its acquired companies though. SE also owns Taito, and Taito has really shone on the iPad and downloadable space since that acquisition.

@WalzElf

So we are in agreement here? Japanese developers don't have to completely abandon their identity just to cater to Western tastes? They can still make their stylish and quirky games, just with a slight Western edge?

This is what Platinum Games does, and they've been pretty successful.

Remember Katamari Damacy? That game is extremely Japanese, yet it was a huge hit on the PS2. So what happened between then and now? What caused western developers to become so dominant? I remember back in the 90's most western games were licensed crap or poorly designed compared to Japanese games.

Because western games became better and japanese developers became stupid.

everyone knows what im going to say

Japanese games FTEW

No. Japanese developers need to work out what sells well to western gamers, because western gamers are a bigger market now. If they can do that by being Japanese, then great.

It's possible to be different and still sell well, but weird Japanese games are no longer a sustainable business model in themselves. Catherine by Atlus might well be a brilliant game, but it's not going to see the same commercial success as Call of Duty. That's the fundamental problem Japanese games companies face right now, and that's why they're trying to tap into the same formula that makes western games popular.

I was not expecting the capital E in that, I have to say, Otaku.

yeah you can appeal to western gamers more and be more than just japanese developers trying to make a western game (Xenoblade)

'Nuff said.

I think I'm missing something here....

Yes you are. What I'm saying is the fact that they actually had to change the expression of Kirby on the cover just proves that to change opinions they will go and change the cover. Western games are generrally gritty, deep, and dramatic. They changed it to try and aim at the Western audence.

If those types of quirky Japanese games aren't popular in the West, then why do we need Atlus or Xseed to localize them? Those types of games keep Atlus and Xseed in business, so do you want them to go out of business?

Look at the Kirby series. It's as Japanese as you can get, yet Nintendo still considers it as one of their main franchises.

Look at Pokemon, for crying out loud. That game still sells millions of units, but since it's Japanese, it must not appeal to Western audiences, right?

Sonic X, Kirby: Right Back At Ya, the numerous Pokemon anime adaptions, etc. have all been very popular. It's because there are fans of those games that also enjoyed those shows. It has nothing to do with whether they are Japanese or not.

Again, I give you the example of Atlus and Xseed. Their entire business is to localize Japanese games. If their business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be doing it anymore.

Ah, I see it now. Still, it's Kirby: they changed him from adorable to adorable.

Atlus and XSeed don't shift the numbers from all the games they release in a year that Call of Duty does on its own. Both those companies proove the point I'm making; Japanese games are typically niche

As for Pokemon - that's an aberrant. Great for Nintendo, but how many other JRPG franchises have been bona fide hits in the last few years? It's an exception to the rule, and the existance of Pokemon by no means ensures the survival of JRPGs in the west.

It's sad, because I love weird otaku games (GUST is one of my very favourite developers), but at the same time, I understand why Japanese developers and publishers are trying to move with the times.

Again, I give you the example of Atlus and Xseed. Their entire business is to localize Japanese games. If their business wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be doing it anymore.

Also please note that Atlus publishes games in Japan as well. It's entire business is NOT localisation. That's one branch of it. XSeed, Rising Star Games and MonkeyPaw Games are the only three that solely operate to bring Japanese games out west, to the best of my recollection. And none of those three shift numbers enough to say "hey, this his a mainstream business strategy."

I agree that Japanese games are more or less a niche in the west, which is why I DON'T want Xseed or Atlus to go out of business. (I've never even heard of Rising Star or MonkeyPaw before)

So why do Xseed and those other developers keep localizing stuff if barely anyone buys it?

Because of the indie people. They eat that stuff up.

Because as small, niche businesses, XSeed, MonkeyPaw Games and Rising Star (NOT Atlus, Atlus has more corporate-driven needs) can afford to do something more as a labour of love.

To the best of my knowledge those three companies are all privately owned; they don't really have shareholders to answer to; this means they don't need the same agressive growth and profit-making that corporates require. They're running on thin staffing levels, typically underpaid but deeply passionate, and usually working out of one centralised office, so they have less overheads to deal with. Logistics is easier and smaller-scale. The target audience is captive - people buy their games because they come looking for them, there's less need for a big marketing budget because they don't need to sell as many copies of the game.

In other words, it's much like any other small, niche company. It survives because it doesn't deal in numbers, or work in the mainstream. The mainstream publishers couldn't possibly exist trying to emulate that model.

They could if they downsized.

Look at all the companies that are struggling / going out of business cause they aren't making enough returns from developing big-budget HD games. This whole push for more graphics is wearing many companies thin. Look at Capcom and Sega. Capcom had many flops this gen (Bionic Commando and Dark Void are big examples). Maybe they'd be better off if they did downsize, instead of constantly investing in things they can't afford to maintain.

So wait, you changed this thread from being about cheap games vs. expensive games to the difference between Western games and Japanese games? I'm sorry, but how do you get to that conclusion? You should at least try to stay on topic, mate. Also, WaltzElf seems to want to start an argument with everybody, so don't fall victim to him.

As for the topic, both Japanese games and Western games can be stupid, nonsensical, and really good. Also, the reason why most American gamers don't give a toss about Japanese games is that most of them are Call Of Duty nuts and Halo-heads who go out and buy whatever looks like those two games and then complain that it's not one of those games. Also, the Japanese tend to like very weird things, lots of which almost instantly put off Americans.

But I'm starting to think WaltzElf is right. He's made some very solid points that he's backed up with evidence.

im importing Color Changing Tingle's Balloon trip of Love soon < doesnt that name sound weird in a COOL way, weird doesnt mean bad guys