Ah, Mario. Between mainline releases, while we are angrily plugging away at our 102nd attempt of a Souls-like's final boss or backtracking through the tunnels of a mind-melting Metroidvania, our thoughts are prone to Wonder (yes, get used to that one being thrown around) to the sweet simplicity of your punchy platforming. Because Mario games are easy, right? Just a little something to switch your mind off to, right?
Playing Super Mario Bros. Wonder over the past few days, we have been reminded that, sometimes, those thoughts are wrong and, more pressingly, they have been for a while.
Okay, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. In the grand scheme of boss rushes and precision platformers, Mario games are, for the most part, a relatively straightforward affair. Sure, some levels might take a few attempts, and the difficulty certainly steps up a gear for those who want to grab every collectable, secret exit and flagpole, but it is generally a cakewalk from A to B (or left to right). The leaps are not too aggravating, the bosses are nothing to cry over, and the level of challenge (at least, for the #ProGamers out there, ahem) is kept to a minimum.
However, these broad brushstrokes aren't any suggestion that all mainline Mario games are a walk in the park. Many titles to have popped out of the Nintendo pipeline over the best part of the past 40 years have had their individual challenges.
While Super Mario Bros. Wonder is largely very easy for a Mario game, there are a handful of sections that jump out to us as being a bit of a jump. Several members of the NL team have bumped up against the rapid rhythm of the 'Jump! Jump! Jump!' challenges — a block that we are sure we're not the only ones to stumble over — and there is one particular dastardly dash at the end of the game which surely deserves a seat in the 'Break Your Controller Over A Mario Level' hall of fame, though that may be a little early to discuss here.
These new discoveries have reminded us just how tricky Mario can be and, indeed, has been. Anyone who has played through a handful of the plumber's platformers will surely have experienced this first-hand whether it's in a particularly difficult objective or a lengthy level that pushed your jump skills to their limits.
Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (Super Mario Bros. 2 in Japan) is, of course, the granddaddy of challenging Mario games — famously deemed too difficult for Western audiences, and we can still see why — but even the most unassuming titles can come with a difficulty spike that sits among the series' most frustrating. And Super Mario Bros. 3's late-game airship levels bring back nightmares for us.
In terms of more modern entries, we remember Super Mario Galaxy's 'Rocky Road' giving us particular grief when we were unfortunate enough to stumble across it back in 2007. Perilous drops and lasers?! You're having us on. That level was then trumped by the sequel's 'Grandmaster Galaxy' which reminded us that true difficulty is a drink best served ridiculously long and with a stabbing pain of failure on the first 30 sips.
Similarly, Super Mario 3D World opted for the 'challenging level but made really, really long' approach with 'Champion's Road' and even the 'New' series, despite feeling rather drab, had its fair share of challenges to close up your DS and put it in a draw never to be touched again — let's not forget that New Super Mario Bros. 2 had it's fittingly-named 'Impossible Pack' DLC.
Heck, what about the challenges that are not necessarily a product of level design but instead of console capabilities? We'd be lying if we said that there were full sections of coin-collecting Super Mario Sunshine challenges that brought us close to tears of frustration when that darn camera just wouldn't sit where we wanted it to and Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins on the Game Boy had its fair share of slightly blurry platforming problems.
All this is to say that, yes, much of the experience of playing a Mario game can be breezed through in a perfectly pleasant 10 hours, but a sense of challenge is never too far from home. And so, with Wonder fresh in our minds, we thought that we would put it up to a vote and ask you which Mario game you found the most difficult.
We have listed each mainline entry for you to pick between below (including Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island), so why not relive some platforming trauma and let us know which game caused you the most grief?
Which title did you vote for? Is there a specific level that had you pulling your hair out? Let us know in the comments.
Comments 141
Didn't play them all but early ones were definitely not compromising
Probably Super Mario Sunshine. Those insane "space" levels, many of the later Shines and the control scheme... Definitely feels like the least child friendly Mario!
At least in the Lost Levels it's always clear what you have to do and there's a straightforward way of doing it even if it takes a lot of repetition and practice.
Lost Levels. Yes, Lost Levels.
The Lost Levels should nearly be disqualified as being tricky as hell is its whole raison d'être.
I remember Mario 3D World (Wii U) final special level took me about 3 days and way more than 100 lives to finally finish it.
When you ask what hero's super power you want, you always say "except Superman", because Superman is the objectively correct answer.
For the same reason, you need to add "not including Super Mario Brothers 2". The real one. Not Doki Doki panic.
How can something "nearly" be disqualified
For 2D Mario, it's SMB: The Lost Levels. For 3D Mario, Super Mario Sunshine, due to it's...well...certain designs in aspects of certain levels.
EDIT: Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels was by far the most difficult 2d Mario game I've played. I couldn't even get past World 2 or 3 (mainly my bad memory). It makes SMB 1, 2, 3, & World looks rather tame by comparison in terms of difficulty.
@Clyde_Radcliffe I was going to drop a comment saying, “anyone who didn’t pick Lost Levels has never played Lost Levels,” but after reading your comment I was struck with a little Mario Sunshine PTSD and can totally understand why so many people are voting it.
Nearly 10 years and I still haven't beaten Champion's Road in 3D World... which reminds me... I should probably get back to it.
And to "complete" it, I have to do it at least twice.
There was also a late level in New Super Mario Bros. Wii which took me over 70 attempts, from memory.
Galaxy 2 because of The Perfect Run (never beat it), it's a huge shame Nintendo never brought Galaxy 2 to Switch.
It's The Lost Levels and it's not even close. All the other games can at least be beaten even if you're not going for 100%. The Lost Levels is just difficult all around.
The next one in line is probably Super Mario Sunshine. All the others, imho, are roughly around the same difficulty and I find it harder to rank them than it is to finish them.
Of course that only goes if you don't count the secret super challenging levels in the more recent Mario games, in which case I would probably put either Mario 3D World or Mario Galaxy 2 at the top spot. The rest of them would again roughly be around the same level.
The Galaxy Games. I wish you could turn off the motion controls on the Switch port. It is just hard to do motion controls in those games and some stars are locked behind a motion control gimic level like the stingray racing.
Lost Levels, no contest. (Particularly the original 8-bit version.) That’s not to say that no other Mario game is hard, but only Lost Levels has levels of that difficulty with only three lives to complete a world and requiring the player to beat the grueling gauntlet of a game eight times to play the even more grueling postgame.
It’s the face of Nintendo Hard for a darn good reason, and its difficulty is the most famous reason that, outside Japan, we got an Arabian Nights game featuring Mario instead.
I voted Lost Levels, but I remember the Star Road and Special Zone being very difficult in SMB World.
My little brother and I got a free copy of SMB All Stars when we got our SNES, and there was an offer that came with it where if you played the Lost Levels from beginning to end without warping (You had to send a picture of your TV on a certain screen to prove you actually did it) you could get a free leather Mario jacket or something like that.
I actually spent all summer and did it, and even took the picture to send in, and then never bothered. I was happy enough just to say I did it.
Once upon a time, I tried playing Super Mario Bros. 3 without save-states. Yeah, in those later levels, I cut that out real quick. I'm an adult and I do not have the time to start the whole world over every single time I get a game over.
The games very, though. The better talking point would be hardest level in Mario. The very final level in Super Mario 3D World completely broke. I had to come to terms with the fact that my thumbs aren't quick enough to beat that level.
I'd say super mario maker 2 if it was on the list. Otherwise yeah the lost levels
There is only one correct answer and that is Lost Levels. Sunshine has some abysmal shines if you go for completion.
Sunshine, either broken or difficult.
There was a level under a floating island that involved clinging on to moving grates which was essentially impossible due to the camera basically.
I can't think of a more broken Nintendo game.
Champion’s Road in 3D World (Wii U). I died over 700 times before taking a long break. A few months later, I came back fresh and beat it… but I missed one green star. I haven’t had the guts to go back and grab it.
While Lost Levels is definitely very hard (even if I personally didn't struggle with it as much as others) and a lot of the later games have the signature 'super-hard secret world', I'd honestly go with Sunshine. Where Lost Levels is intentionally designed to be hard (meaning you can theoretically learn it's levels and clear them fairly easily after a while), Sunshine is filled with entirely unpredictable jank that can (and often does) make a bunch of levels a nightmare to try and beat.
it's still the 2nd best Mario game behind Galaxy though XD
I mean, lost levels right? I think this gets as close to an objectively correct answer as these kinds of questions could ever get. I’m having trouble imagining arguments for any other game.
Edit: okay, I understand from the comments where people are coming from better. It’s interesting actually because some people seem to be proceeding along the lines of whichever game has the hardest level is ipso facto the hardest game - it’s got the hardest challenge after all! Whereas I was thinking more of content that you are required to get through to beat the game. Starting with Mario World, all the really difficult stuff is optional. I stand by my opinion that lost levels is the hardest game overall. Even the first world is not particularly easy!
I remember having such a hard time with the perfect run at the end of galaxy 2 as a kid, I wouldn't be able to complete it years later. Galaxy 2 is still one of my favorite games by far, it has its fair share of difficult levels.
9-7 frozen piranha plants was also a pain to complete in New Super Mario Bros Wii. Good challenge for the end game
Super Mario Bros. 2: The Lost Levels, of course. I agree that the original game would've ruined Mario's Western reputation. Sunshine is the hardest 3D Mario for its tricky physics. I can still hear the clown horn in the game over screen.
As far as individual levels go, I've never beaten the final fortress in SMB3 and have always used a cloud to skip it. I just use the Tanooki Suit with infinite flying to clear the tiny and fast airships in Dark Land. I've never beaten NSMB2's Impossible Pack, and those are definitely still the hardest official 2D levels. For 3D Mario, I've cleared Galaxy 2's The Perfect Run and the final level in 3D Land but never cleared Champion's Road in 3D World.
I hated Star 242 of Galaxy 2, but then again, the last two levels of 3D World were both so frustrating I just gave up. It surprises me that Sunshine is still considered one of the hardest, as I didn't have too much trouble with that. I think when you've mastered the controls, you become "as one" with the game.
The final challenge on 3D World is the only Mario thing I've never been able to complete, so that gets my vote. I've beaten Lost Levels, 120 shines in Sunshine, all the hardest parts of Galaxy 2, but nothing has been the brick wall that the final stage of 3D World was for me.
Maybe one day I'll beat it?
@Sisilly_G when I first completed champions road, I got a friend to man some other controllers so it would be complete for all characters. We ran out of time and I had to do the whole thing again. I got to the end again after a few tries and dropped in more characters. I thankfully beat it with Mario and later Rosalina. Her spin was really helpful for those flip blocks.
SMB1 and Lost Levels by a mile. Then the GB ones. Everything else is a cake walk comparatively! 😂 Even the Challenge DLC for NSMB on DS wasn’t overall as difficult as Lost Levels, but granted it was tough. If it wasn’t for modern control and handling that DLC woulda been nigh impossible.
There's no debate here, The Lost Levels is the hardest Mario game by 10 MILLIONS miiiiiiles.
If I could rank them, my top three would be Lost Levels, Sunshine, then NSMB2. Lost Levels is consistently difficult, and some parts are just outright cruel. Sunshine never feels like the developers were trying to make players pull out their own hair, but the game is mostly difficult due to crappy design. NSMB2 had two challenge packs available as DLC, the Nerve-Wrack Pack, and the Impossible Pack, the latter of which I've still never beaten to this day, though it's been a while since I last attempted to do so. You could make the argument that if I'm counting side content, a lot of the challenges in NSMBU are fairly difficult, but at least I could beat those, so the game goes below NSMB2 in my ranking.
@MrGam3andBu1ld : That's how I've beaten most of the levels without having to play them five times each. Timing them all can be a bit tricky when I'm having to man all of the Joy-Con though.
@HeadPirate ah yes, Lost Levels the "real" sequel that was effectively a DLC to the original game and only originally released in one country...
Meanwhile, Super Mario Bros 2 which actually innovated on the original and brought staples to the series like Shy Guys, Bob-ombs, Pokeys, etc is just a cheap knockoff and not a real sequel, right?
So many think Sunshine is hard? I guess it depends on what you grew up with ...It's my favourite game and I've learnt most of the tricks (and cheese), so of course I'm very biased there.
I find all the old 2D games up to Mario World tough lol ...Especially Mario World's special worlds. I've never dared to touch The Lost Levels. The newer 2D Mario games are a breeze by comparison, but I'll always remember World 9 of New Soup Wii. That one got crazy.
For the 3D games, Champion's Road in 3D World is an absolute nightmare. Spent a few hundred lives on that one. Otherwise, I didn't really find any others as wild ...Maybe the last level in Galaxy 2, but I quit that game a long time ago.
I punched in Sunshine completely forgetting The Lost Levels exists. (Probably for good reasons!)
I really want to love Sunshine but the jank physics for me can be a little too much sometimes :/
Mario 3d All Stars all the way. You can't even get to the title screen anymore.
The game needs to be challenging from the second map onwards. Playing 95% of a game that is easy and has no fun, to have 5% fun, is useless. I will never do this to myself, because I am not a masochist.
The hardest Mario game is Lost Levels on the NES.
I went with the Lost Levels, but I could see the argument for Sunshine which I agree was also much harder than most other Mario games.
I know they're not considered 'mainline' per se, but Mario Maker 1 and 2 had both Nintendo-made and community-made levels that completely broke my brain, in the best way. "I have no idea what I'm supposed to do here... oh... wait a second... I think I.... you want me to carry THAT all the way HERE and then do THAT with it?! Seriously?!"
@Sisilly_G The one from Mario Wii has to be either the P Switch or Ice Block Fire Bro level from World 9 ...Those were insane.
Mario Sunshine mostly because of how janky it is
Lost Levels perhaps. Super Luigi Bros U was… not always so nice.
The main game of New Super Mario Bros 2 I felt was fairly simple. The “Impossible Pack” DLC was the hardest set of levels I’ve ever played in a Mario game though. Three tough levels with a time limit to complete all three in, and one mistake and you’re back to the start of the first. Frustrating & tough! Closest to a Kaizo section I’ve come across in mainline Mario games.
I beat the lost levels on NSO so I can't speak honestly on that one.
I still however haven't finished SMB3, I never was able as a kid, despite leaving the console on so many times. But I will on NSO.
I recently did the 6 golden coins on NSO and found it pretty boring all the way long. Probably my least favourite Mario game.
Sunshine is the most challenging and frustrating 3D Mario imo. Camera is very often a nightmare and there are so many moves and some are similar (buttons combos are similar), and it all needs so much precision. I was just completely extatic when I beat that one 100%.
The Champion's Road in 3D World was super challenging, but after I beat it once (after maybe 200 attempts), I beat it with all the characters within a few more attempts. I wonder if it's not a psychological thing.
I absolutely loved the Galaxy's and I found the level of challenge there just perfect.
The Jump! Jump! Jump! Level(s?) are great! Just what I was hoping for. Wonder… I’m warming up to you… 🔥☑️
Also, the Sproing expert badge (or whatever it’s called) where you always jump adds a fun layer of challenge. Great game—score is now 8.5/10 lol
The two most difficult mario games are Sunshine and Lost Levels. Galaxy 2 is pretty hard also. However Lost Levels difficulty is present throughout the game and the game makes it mandatory to go through the hard parts to beat it whereas in sunshine or galaxy 2 the difficult parts are mainly optional. Super Luigi U is pretty hard though but for some reason it is not part of the list, even though Mario U has been listed twice with the deluxe version which is strange. However hard Luigi can be, the super short nature of its levels and generous progression with save points after each levels still make Lost Levels the hardest game of the two.
Therefore Lost Levels is the most difficult mario game! There you are problem solved now we can all go to bed.
New Super Mario Bros. U...because it was so difficult...
...
...to stay interested in the game to finish it.
Super Mario World can seem easy... until you try to unlock all of the secrets.
Overall though I'd say The Lost Levels is the obvious choice, but outside of that probably Mario 64 or Sunshine.
Haven't played a ton on this list in a long while but I do remember the latter Galaxy 1 levels being kinda tricky as a kid.
If one is very lousy at typing on the keyboard, Mario Teaches Typing is brutal!
In seriousness, I’ll also chime in on Lost Levels and Sunshine. 3D World’s Champion Road was a vicious beast that I eventually tamed with all characters (Yikes!), and a casual gamer friend of mine is having a devil of a time with Galaxy 2.
@HeadPirate isn't that the lost levels?
@Vil : I just had a look, and it was definitely 9-7 with the ice blocks. shudder
@JayJ SMW Special World is no joke, just went back through it a couple weeks ago to show my daughters and wife who’d never seen the Mario Koopas that unlock after you finish. Tubular and the Balloon Mario level, ugh…. But the one with all the flying fish took me about 6 deaths to finish, forgot how rough that one was. 😂
Ooo that's a good question! I went with Mario 3D World. The Switch version. Almost entirely because of Champion's Road. Increase in movement speed has killed me so many times over just in the main game. And that level sucks to begin with. 100% completion involves beating all levels with all characters and I am not dealing with that for Champion's Road.
Sunshine is a runner up because of those blue coins but that's more just tedious and frustrating. I grew up playing All-Stars on the SNES obsessively, so I know Lost Levels like the back of my hand and as such it is not all that difficult for me.
I gotta go with 3D World
I still can’t beat Champion’s Road to this day…
NSMB2's impossible pack dlc and NSMBU's challenge mode are easily the most difficult Mario content ever created. Anyone who went with a different choice simply hasn't completed those two games in their entirety.
Super Mario Sunshine because it's actually challenging and not cheap like Lost Levels or the special stages of Yoshi's Island.
I dunno, Yoshi's Island. Poochy seems pretty stupid to me. >.>;
Most of them aren't terribly difficult overall, but they will have difficult elements in them. If you want to 100% you will find challenge in most of them. That said, The Lost Levels is just downright cheap!
@Dragnoran
When Nintendo made Super Mario Brothers 2, they increased the challenge significantly based on market feedback from the Japanize audience. The end result was a game that Nintendo of America felt had no chance of selling in the West.
The game was released in Japan in 1986. In 1988 Nintendo of America published "Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic", a Nintendo game made in collaboration with Fuji TV based on a TV special, as "Super Mario 2"
Reskinning it as a Mario game was a win-win; it let them cash in on the IPs popularity in the West, and they didn't have to pay Fuji TV to use the main characters in the West, while they could still use all the other assist they created for the game.
Fun fact: Shy Guys, Pokeys, Bob-ombs and Birdo all come from the original Doki Doki panic, and "POW" blocks and Super Stars both appear in the original Japanize release, before any reskins.
In 1993 "The Lost Levels" was released in the West. That game is SIGNIFICANTLY easier then the original SMB2 due to more frequent checkpoints and making the plosion mushroom easier to see.
So I'm saying the hardest game is the "real" Super Mario 2, the Japanese only release. I would argue that it's inaccurate to say the hardest game is "The Lost Levels" given that game is much easier.
It's also important to note that because "The Lost Levels" also saw release in Japan under that title (eventually, it was first released as "Super Mario USA") it's not accurate to speak about "The Lost Levels" as if it is equivent to the Japanese only game "Super Mario 2". They are two unique, although extremely similar, games.
@Blue_Dread
Not really sure what your issue is here. Given it came out 2 years before the Western release and the Western release is a reskin of a game that already existed, it's pretty hard to argue that the Japan release isn't the "real" Super Mario 2. The Western game called "Super Mario 2" is actually Doki Doki Panic ... that's just objectively the truth. I have no idea why calling it that would bother anyone.
I mean you can call it whatever floats your boat, but you need to give it SOME unique name to distinguish it from "The Lost Levels" given that isn't the same game.
Lost Levels easily but just because the level designers chose violence that day.
Voted 3D World because I overlooked Lost Levels. D'oh!
Lost levels kicked my butt lol.
You know I've always found the 3d mario games far more difficult than the 2d ones. Aside from lost levels, I've beaten pretty much every 2d mario. When it comes to 3d I usually just nope out at a certain point. That third dimension just creates more opportunities to eff up.
I voted for SMB2, but only because I knew most everyone else would vote for Lost Levels (which I agree with). I enjoyed some of SMB2 but gave up on it a while back, probably around the ice world.
I'm proud to say I've beaten the Perfect Run in SMG2, though. Extremely predictable and difficult is my kind of challenge level, I think.
The Lost Levels are a pain, for God's sake. It feels like punishment, not a game that's supposed to give us some fun
@OstianOwl Just love your sentence! "They chose violence" LOL
The comment section is an amazing study of how powerful the Mandela effect can be online, and how impossible it can be to dispel misinformation once the masses accept it as true.
Almost everyone agrees on the "fact" that "The Lost Levels" is the hardest game. But "The Lost Levels" is NOT a re-release of the JP "Super Mario Brothers 2". It is a modified version of that game, the only difference being that it is MUCH easier due to checkpoints and being able to see plosion mushrooms much easier. TLL was released in Japan, directly marketed as a easier, more accessible version of the original.
So almost everyone is presenting and defending an argument they do not actually support, because if your opinion is that TLL is the hard, then clearly TLL with fewer checkpoints is harder.
The misunderstanding that SMB2-JP is identical to "The Lost Levels" is so prevalent that there is almost unanimous agreement on a point that is objectively and verifiability incorrect.
Anything past M64 is easy to a point so you can finish the game and see the end. But they all have tougher challenges if you want to get 100%. You have to ask what’s overall the toughest, or what’s the toughest to 100%
Yoshi's Island and Wario Land aren't mainline Mario games . But I would say Lost Levels is hardest, whether you mean any% or 100%.
@HeadPirate Super Mario Bros 2 USA is absolutely still a "real" mainline Mario game. It got a release in Japan as "Super Mario USA". It introduced reoccurring Mario characters like Birdo and Bob-omb. It introduced Luigi's modern proportions. It even started development as a Mario game before it shifted and Nintendo eventually got the Yume Kojo license.
Does Super Luigi U not count? Isn't that one supposed to be quite difficult with every level having the timer set to 100?
@HeadPirate Counterpoint: Nintendo tends to officially refer to Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2 as "The Lost Levels" retroactively with the various Virtual Console and Switch Online re-releases of the original Famicom version so technically referring to the Famicom release as "The Lost Levels" is about as valid as referring to the game "Nazo no Murasamejou" as "The Mysterious Murasame Castle".
Also "Super Mario USA" is the name given to the international Super Mario Bros. 2 (the reworked Doki Doki Panic) when that version was released in Japan to distinguish it from Japan's Super Mario 2 and also likely so Nintendo could future-proof re-releases of the game in all regions without needing to pay licensing fees to Fuji TV for use of their characters but that's just a personal theory.
@HeadPirate except the Lost Levels IS the same game as they gave the original FDS version that title when they released it on Wii/Wii U Virtual Console. So it doesn't just refer to the SMAS version. Plus they're all just called "Super Mario Bros 2" in Japan if you want to talk about the original Japanese releases .
@HeadPirate also a somewhat easier rerelease is still the same game at the end of the day. You wouldn't say Super Mario Bros Deluxe isn't still Super Mario Bros just bc they added a save feature and unlimited continues? Although perhaps they should specify versions in this specific case since we are talking difficulty...
Sunshine was difficult to complete 100% for sure, but Lost Levels is difficult to get to the end at all.
@HammerKirby Exactly. There IS a non All-Stars version of "The Lost Levels" out there. There is really no reason to be pedantic about it eeither - we all know the game we're talking about.
Galaxy 2 definitely has some very challenging moments, I remember in particular the Fluzzard levels were especially difficult for me. And of course Grandmaster Galaxy.
The question doesn't draw a distinction between main game and postgame content. Lost Levels is some grade-A BS, but I did beat it because they knew what they were doing and put the 100 lives trick in 1-1. Unlike the last optional levels of 3D World and Odyssey.
Champion's Road on 3D World took the most attempts from me before I beat it, so I voted for that. I then remembered that I've yet to beat the final level on 3D Land despite more attempts, so probably should have gone with that.
@HammerKirby
I think you replied to me by mistake. You're comment seem to be directed towards someone who made a comment about Doki Doki Panic not being a Mario game or something. What a silly argument! If it makes you happy to think that Hotel Mario is a "core" Mario game (whatever that means) power to you! That has zero impact on my life, and if it makes you smile that's wonderful!
I was making a comment about how the game that had the title "Super Mario Brothers 2" two years before Doki Doki Panic was given that name, and was developed by Nintendo as a sequel to Super Mario Bothers, is the "real" Super Mario Brothers 2 for two reasons. First, it's the easier way to distinguish the games, as you can call Doki Doki Panic either that or Super Mario USA and "The Lost Levels" is not a direct port.
Second, I think it's pretty insensitive (and petty, to be honest) to tell someone who played a game by one title in 1996 that they can't use that title anymore because you played a different game with that name in 1998, or telling them they have to call a game they played in 1997 under a different name new because of what you called it in 1998.
I think it's kinda like saying it only matters what things are called in MY country, and I would never want someone to think I thought something like that.
When you find the person you actually meant to reply to, let them know how silly I think arguing about something like that would be. I can't even imagine being bothered by the fact that someone calls a game by the name they first played it as, or how you could possible think that had any impact on your life.
@HeadPirate You can still call the game Super Mario Bros 2 if you want lol. I'm not stopping you. But you're the one correcting people not me.
@Dm9982 Easy to learn, tough to master is definitely how I would describe SMW.
@HammerKirby
Oh my gosh, you are never going to believe this!
Haha, I don't know what's going on man, but you replied to me by mistake again. It sounds like you're looking for someone who said something like "NO, YOU CAN'T CALL IT THAT, any time the US release of Super Mario Brothers 2 got brought up." What a astonishingly silly thing to care about. My comment was this one:
"When you ask what hero's super power you want, you always say "except Superman", because Superman is the objectively correct answer.
For the same reason, you need to add "not including Super Mario Brothers 2". The real one. Not Doki Doki panic."
I have another comment where someone literally asks me a question and I answer it in detail, and another that is a meditation on the Mandela Effect.
This is SO strange! How does this keep happening?
It seems to be SUPER important to you that give this person a price of your mind for some reason, so I hope you can figure out what happened and who you really wanted to reply to.
I voted for Lost Levels which is known for its difficulty. It's definitely hard, and consistent in that regard, though it was more playable than I imagined based on its reputation. Mario Sunshine just annoyed me with its overall design and the way the camera behaved. I wasn't having any fun, so I just stopped playing it. It sounds like its harder moments later in the game would have just made me angry.
This whole topic of difficulty is interesting because there are a number of ways to make a game challenging. Plus, 2D and 3D game design is very different. For some time, I could not decide whether I thought Super Mario 3 or Super Mario World was the best Mario game. Both have things going for them. I finally started to clearly favor SMB3 because the baseline difficulty was a bit higher(but not too high) to a level I found was more engaging, and was more consistent throughout the game and in how it ramped up. In SMW, most of the game feels a bit easy to me now, with just some of the secret exits and the secret levels providing sudden difficulty spikes. While that is a way to add challenge, as well as making it optional, I think it took away a little bit from the main stages. I still think it's an excellent game, but I do prefer SMB3 specifically due to the approach Nintendo took with its level design.
Lost Levels being voted the most difficult is a given, but I'd argue there are sections of Yoshi's Island that give it a run for its money. Namely the Kaizo-esque Extra levels such as Poochy in lava and Kamek's Revenge.
And of course, as pointed out, NSMB2's Impossible Pack (and also the optional challenges from NSMBU).
But this list overlooked a few notable titles: Super Mario 64 DS (I consider it a separate, almost fully different game from the original - not a mere remake). Also absent, Super Mario Run. Not a challenging title, unless you're going for the green coins. And shouldn't the two Mario Maker titles also count? There are Nintendo-designed levels in those, even if they're nowhere near as difficult as some of the asinine levels uploaded by the more sadistic players.
And then there's Super Mario Bros. Special, the PC-88 obscure title. That title alone would take top spot for its iffy controls, blatant screen scrolling limitations and insanely sped up timer.
Ranking the 3D titles, I'd give that spot to 3D World, honestly. Mario is way harder to control in precise platforming sections compared to the Galaxy games. And it has plenty of brutal challenges after Meowser. World Star, World Mushroom, World Flower, and obviously Champion's Road.
I always found Super Mario Bros. 3 to be incredibly difficult. Even for a veteran gamer like myself, it still kicks me in the butt. Even playing on the Switch, I was constantly using the rewind feature to keep my powerups. Yeah, you could call that cheating, but the way I see it, the game itself is a cheat for being so brutal and unforgiving in its difficulty.
I can understand why some would say The Lost Levels are difficult, but if you ask me, it's no worse than the original Mario. Really, the only difference is that some of the levels have specific paths to follow to read the end, and then there's the Poison Mushroom. But largely, the gameplay is similar to the previous one.
Sunshine wasn't really that difficult, either. It just largely lacked the polish of the other Mario games, so the controls and camera could be a little fussy at times. Yes, there were some challenging levels, such as the one with Phantamanta (the giant ghostly manta ray in Sirena Beach) and the platforming challenges, but by and large, it was not a difficult game.
I went for Mario 3D World mainly because of that last stage. What a nightmare!
I could have gone for any of the classics though, like Lost Levels or Bros. 3. Sunshine was pretty tough too, but because of the terrible controls and camera...
Sunshine for sure. i've tried beating the damn game for the past 8 years, and only just recently beat it in March. I absolutely DESPISE the mission shine requirements, especially given how horrid the fluddless levels get after the first 3 worlds... the sand blocks after the wood gear caused so much rage, and then the rotating block elevator... urgh.
@HeadPirate Not that comment but you have corrected other comments on this thread
Aside from The Lost Levels it’s 100% Sunshine. There is so much finnicky BS in that game it’s not even funny…
Okay, it’s pretty funny
Lost levels, then Mario 2.
@OstianOwl
Real talk. I have NO idea what you are upset about or what you are trying to say. I don't say that to invalidate your viewpoint. I'm just actually very confused.
I played "Super Mario Bros 2" in 1996 while I was in Japan. I played Doki Doki panic in 1997, also in Japan. I assume you played Doki Doki Panic in 1998, but it was called Super Mario Bros, and you played "Super Mario Bros 2' in 1995, but it was called "The Lost Levels." I absolutely do not care what you call the games you played and expect you to call then by the names you played them as. I am baffled why anyone would expect anything different from me, or care.
Also to clarify a few things:
"The Lost Levels" is not a retroactive title for SMB2. It is a different game. "The Lost Levels" has more check points and a different sprite for the plosion mushroom. There is actually a collection you can get in Japan that has both, where they are called TTL and SMB2.
"Super Mario USA" came out because Nintendo was working on a direct sequel to Doki Doki Panic to release over the broadcast service. Given they had the reskin already and Mario was a much more popular IP, they released "Super Mario USA" to create hype and officially rebrand Doki Doki Panic.
They released the sequel as "BS Super Mario USA" over 4 weekly broadcasts that included full radio plays.
Again ... real talk here, you seem to be both genuinely interested and pretty knowledgeable about this whole period in Nintendo's history. Me too! What exactly is it we are supposed to be arguing about? If it's all the same to you, maybe just ask questions and we can have a conversation? I would like that a lot more.
@HammerKirby
Source?
Definitely lost levels. Between the awkward physics of the first two games and adding random trolls and the fact that they actively tried to make things difficult which most Mario games just don't do.
My second choice is Mario 64 mainly because of the janky camera which makes everything a bit more annoying.
Other Mario games have the occasional hard level but as a whole are pretty easy
@HeadPirate "
The comment section is an amazing study of how powerful the Mandela effect can be online, and how impossible it can be to dispel misinformation once the masses accept it as true.
Almost everyone agrees on the "fact" that "The Lost Levels" is the hardest game. But "The Lost Levels" is NOT a re-release of the JP "Super Mario Brothers 2". It is a modified version of that game, the only difference being that it is MUCH easier due to checkpoints and being able to see plosion mushrooms much easier. TLL was released in Japan, directly marketed as a easier, more accessible version of the original.
So almost everyone is presenting and defending an argument they do not actually support, because if your opinion is that TLL is the hard, then clearly TLL with fewer checkpoints is harder.
The misunderstanding that SMB2-JP is identical to "The Lost Levels" is so prevalent that there is almost unanimous agreement on a point that is objectively and verifiability incorrect.
@HammerKirby
My medication on the Mandela Effect!
But I thought you were going to show me an example me correcting someone.
That's a comment on general trends that includes variably correct information.
That isn't directed at anyone, so there is no one to correct. It's just factual information about a common misconception.
Here is an example of "correcting someone", for future reference and illustrative purposes
@HammerKirby, this specific thing you did, where you tried to suggest that making general claims about misconceptions without singling anyone out is the same as "correcting people", is not a cogent argument. It employs the logical fallacy of false equivalency.
I hope that helps!
I'd never heard of the Impossible Levels pack in NSMB2 until a YTer played through them, and they looked absolutely brutal. So I'm going to go with that.
But the hardest Mario games for me are SMB and SMB:TLL simply because the momentum and acceleration are so infuriatingly horrible. That and damage takes you down to small Mario even if you have a Fire Flower. That alone makes them much less forgiving than the newer games.
@HeadPirate My guy, nobody is upset or intending to argue about anything; all I'm saying is that I can load up Famicom Mario 2 on my Switch's Online NES app right now or look at my VC purchase of it on my old Wii and it'll be referred to as "The Lost Levels" so technically, it is retroactively an alternative title for the Famicom version to at least non-Japanese audiences if Nintendo is to be believed. Not saying what version of the game is correctly or incorrectly "The Lost Levels", just that Nintendo themselves have referred to the Famicom Mario 2 as "The Lost Levels" more than once in an official capacity.
Also the "Mario USA" mention was mostly because in your original comment I responded to, you mentioned that was the title given to the All-Stars version of The Lost Levels due to its easier difficulty. Excuse me, was kind of an aside on my original response; just too much of a video game history aficionado to not bring that up and am usually ready to talk about gaming history at the drop of a hat.
I played Lost Levels in the SNES All Stars release and did not find it overly challenging. Whether it was different in any way, who knows.
I selected Yoshi's Island on the SNES. That's especially to get all the Yoshi coins and red coins, which I did. Next pick would be SMB3.
@JayJ Yes indeed. I’ve got a fairly decent memorization of SMW, Lttp, and Mega Man X, but some times things catch me off guard/I forget. I still get a chuckle when I obliterate enemies right as they spawn in on MMX, or make it nearly all the way to the end of Iggy’s Castle without touching the ground and earning like 10 lives along the way 🤣
Aside from Super Mario Bros. 2 - The Lost Levels, the Lost Levels in Super Mario Bros. 3 debug rom, and the e-Reader levels for Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3, every Mario game is super easy to me. I hate some of the e-Reader levels more than the SMB2: Lost Levels as there are some levels that begins normally then all a sudden they turn to auto scroll mid-level through and there are some that starts as auto scroll and then became normal level mid-way through, these confuse me the most as they kept tricking the player like this.
There is a reason those Levels got Lost.
@OstianOwl
I think I see the core disconnect here.
SMB2-J only exists in two forms; as a stand along JP release, and as part of a GBA collection in JP. You can't get in it on any virtual service. It has never seen a release outside Japan.
"The Lost Levels" is not the same game. The levels are modified to accommodate the check points. There are no sound cues in the Mazes. Enemy behavior is different, most notability the hammer brothers. The boss fights were changed. They got rid of the "just kills you" warp. You don't have to beat the game 8 times to get to the last level. Luige's momentum is much different. Hit boxes are changed. That's just want I can remember off the top of my head.
So in a discussion about what is the harder game, I think it's important to be clear that SMB2-JP is much, much harder then The Lost Levels. And SMB2-JP has never been known, in that harder form, by any other name.
The more accurate statement would be that The Lost Levels has replaced SMB2-JP in the series, the same way Super Mario USA replaced Doki Doki Panic in Nintendo's archives.
But the fact that they don't sell SMB2JP any more and have replaced it with The Lost Levels in all but one collection doesn't change that fact that, in a discussion that asked what the hardest Mario game ever released was, that answer is the 1986 game "Super Mario Brother 2".
The 1995 game "The Lost Levels" is not as hard. It's core design goal was to not be as hard.
The 1988 game also called "Super Mario Brothers 2", while fantastic, is likely one of the easiest Mario games.
Make sense?
@HeadPirate Hm, I see.
Lost Levels/SMB2 (JP) was challenging, tricky, unfair, laughed at you, cruel, and laughed at you again. Deliberate challenges are one thing like Sunshine's challenge levels or the Special World from World, but literally doing you in by expecting you to expect everything to be the same as it once was, before dropping you off the cliff, is why for me Lost Levels is on a whole other level. Shameless challenge is the best way I can explain it... but I still appreciated it regardless.
The Lost Levels is one hell of a BS game with hidden blocks, pipes that send you back to previous worlds, and some truly tough gimmicks, like the wind, so it gets my vote.
Hardest 3D Mario is a toss-up between Galaxy 2 and 3D World.
That's a real question? Hehehe of course Super Mario Bros. 2 (jp)
@Ade117 it's like an April Fool's Mario game. Hahahaha
Gotcha, you went down a pipe that is just a trap! Devious designs
This article could've been a couple sentences. 'Super Mario Bros 2: The Lost Levels is the hardest mario game. Yes? Yes.'
I don't know about hardest, but Sunshine's archaic elements make it unnecessarily frustrating. I'm thinking of how punishing it is when you hit a wall during the blooper race, for example. It doesn't just restart the stage, let alone the race: it kicks you all the way out to Delphino Plaza!
Playing NSMB Wii U right after beating Super Meat Boy was also a revelation for me: SMB has more demanding platforming, but isn't half as irritating as NSMBWU because you're immediately put back into the action.
Life systems don't add much value, IMO.
2D: The Lost Levels still to this day has me hair pulling and for 3D while I did beat it in the end but not completely 100 percent it is Mario Sunshine.
Anyone voting anything other than SMB Lost Levels clearly has not played it. There is no comparison. It is excrutiating to play. It's like it was designed to punish players. I consider myself very good at Mario games, and really the only game I struggled at was Lost Levels. If you haven't played it and think Mario games are too easy, go play it.
FYI, I've never been able to beat "Super Mario Sunshine" (without Action Replay) or "Super Mario Galaxy 2". I have to question WHY I need to do that one mission involving jumping on enemies in a row to satisfy a monkey. Like dude, this evil turtle's going to destroy the universe or whatever, why not just give me the star and let me move on?
Personally, the only mainline Mario games I have put down were the Galaxy games. Trash controls and camera.
@LikelySatan I like you
Glad to see that others agree - Lost Levels and Sunshine! Sunshine mostly from a lot of jump deaths I think!
The obvious answer is The Lost Levels but I don’t really count that one since it’s more of a novelty to the US. Aside from it’s obvious trolling, Sunshine has loads of stuff I never came close to getting. It can be a punishing/unforgiving experience. So many things I scratched my head saying how? It’s the only one of the three 3D All Stars I didn’t play through to completion cuz it feels pretty chore-ish.
New Super Mario Bros on the DS is a good example of an older Mario game being easier than more recent releases. This is because it establishes certain game mechanics that are further developed/enhanced in future games and become more challenging - the end of world boss shortcuts is a good example of this as they're all very easy to achieve in this game but future games make it more challenging.
So it's definitely not a simple case of "older is harder".
As Yoshi's Island: Super Mario World 2 is included in this one, can it not also be included in the rating for the best mainline series article?
@HeadPirate
I think it's just that most people mean SMB2JP when they say TLL. Myself included. Some others probably don't even know that SMB2JP is a thing and therefore rightfully choose TLL as the most difficult to the extent of their knowledge.
Also someone mentioned the impossible pack for NSMB2. The list should be modified to include SMB2JP, TLL, The Impossible Pack, NSLU, so that we have all of the really difficult mario' 'games' even though luigi and impossible pack are more dlc than games but they have been made specifically for the purpose of being difficult so I feel like they're worth a mention because they specifically answer what this article is about. And then after these four we can just add Sunshine and Galaxy 2 and we have all of the more than average difficulty mario games.
Definitely Sunshine for me, some of the levels were almost impossible because of the camera and control. Unlike Lost Levels where I relished the challenge and got great satisfaction from completing.
Maybe I was at the height of my gaming skills back when SMG2 came out but I never thought that it would be too difficult.
Sunshine has a lot of frustrating aspects that kinda make it difficult. Like the watermelon. Or that venomous water and leaf level. Which you can only reach after spending a lifetime on that sh***y boat. God, I can see why I have no more nerves left at 30.
@HeadPirate: "SMB2-J only exists in two forms; as a stand along JP release, and as part of a GBA collection in JP. You can't get in it on any virtual service. It has never seen a release outside Japan."
This is factually incorrect. As @OstianOwl points out, the Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2 is indeed available to play on the Switch's NSO NES app. It emulates the original Famicom Disk System ROM, with the system's game menu branding it "Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels".
"The Lost Levels" is not a separate game from Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2. The title "The Lost Levels" was first used for the SNES Super Mario All-Stars remake of the Japanese Famicom Disk System Super Mario Bros. 2 and has since been retroactively used in the West to refer to the original game. In the Japanese Super Famicom equivalent of Super Mario All-Stars, which is called Super Mario Collection, the game that is often known as "The Lost Levels" in the West is called simply Super Mario Bros. 2.
Whether the SNES/Super Famicom version is being referred to as Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels or as Super Mario Bros. 2, it's still a remake of the original Famicom Disk System game. The remake includes changes such as allowing the player to restart from the current level rather than the current world after a game over, and the removal of the requirement to complete worlds 1 to 8 eight times to access worlds A to D.
TLDR: The title "The Lost Levels" is NOT specific to only the SNES remake of the Famicom Disk System game Super Mario Bros. 2, but is in fact a title used in an official capacity by Nintendo themselves to refer to the original also.
"The Lost Levels" is very, very hard (and I`ve never finished it). But the weird interplay between camera, physics and controls in "Sunshine" PLUS the varying difficulty and rythm makes you question your sanity (I played "Sanity`s Requiem" at the same time, I know which of these two games to fear).
My favourite Mario 3D game is Super Mario Sunshine, while I consider Super Mario Odyssey the most boring and the least cohesive. I see that they tried to do something different but they forgot to make something good. Odyssey was a massive disappointment and has very little in common with Super Mario 64.
I completed Super Mario Sunshine 100% on GameCube and Switch and I admit that the game has incredible difficulty spikes if you want to get all the blue coins and shines. It's technically polished and has better camera, controls and stick response than Super Mario 64. It's definitely a big game with tons of exploration and platforming and impressive visuals and soundtrack, but it's too hardcore.
Galaxy 1, that blasted race with the boo the giant ghost, I could not defeat and had to skip it in the end.
The two Galaxy games can be very annoying to complete 100% because of the wiggle controls. I don't know if you remember that section with long, vertical platforms. At least, Sunshine has tight controls. Odyssey is like Breath of the Wild, it focuses on plain exploration but it's not fun nor rewarding.
Other than the obvious Lost Levels, I'd say Sunshine is the strongest contender for the most difficult mainline Mario game considering how difficult it is to even just finish the game because you're forced to play specific levels - not even Lost Levels does that as it has Warp Zones which mostly send you forward as usual with only a couple of backward ones - and some of them are infamously hard between the physics, controls and/or level design (several of the mandatory FLUDD-less levels, the Sand Bird, Corona Mountain especially because of the boat etc.)... not to mention some of the levels required for completion which are even more so!
The most difficult level of them all - apart from potentially the 'Impossible Pack' DLC in NSMB2 and Challenge Mode in NSMBU, have never played those - is definitely The Perfect Run from Galaxy 2 because of it being a Daredevil Comet and the lack of checkpoints combined with the level design and length of it.
@LXP8: "NSMB2's impossible pack dlc and NSMBU's challenge mode are easily the most difficult Mario content ever created. Anyone who went with a different choice simply hasn't completed those two games in their entirety."
Hard agree on NSMBU's challenge mode. (Haven't played NSMB2 at all, so can't comment there.)
One of NSMBU's coin challenges is called "Don't. Touch. Anything." It took me around 11 hours of practice to get the silver medal for it. I'm currently at something like 18 hours and still haven't upgraded to gold! I'm currently taking a break from attempts at it.
Purely for the sake of comparison, I completed Champion's Road in Super Mario 3D World the same day I unlocked it. I'm also a big Lost Levels fan and play it fairly regularly as something light-hearted. (It took some amount of practice to get to that stage, though, since I'm not an especially skilled gamer.)
So I voted for NSMBU Deluxe overall, as that also includes New Super Luigi U, which isn't exactly an easy game either.
@HeadPirate HeadPirate, more like Debbie downer. The first comment section in the history of the internet with near unanimous agreement and you got to play semantics,to let everyone know how more clever of and superior of a gamer you are. you must be a hoot at parties.
@Nool The impossible pack is the hardest set of standard Mario stages and it's a real shame they're no longer available from the eShop as of this year. You had to beat all three as regular Mario (with no power ups hidden anywhere) and if you died at any point, you go back to the beginning of level 1. The obstacles & strict timer were brutal. I think it's harder to complete than any single challenge in NSMBU, but probably in the same ballpark as going for gold medals in the latter's hardest challenges.
'Don't. Touch. Anything' still gives me nightmares. I think I only reached bronze because I was just happy to have made it to the end lol You have true dedication and I hope you manage gold.
I had a lot of difficulty with Champion's Road on Wii U, as I was too lazy to go get power ups from a different level each time I failed. So I ended up completing it as regular Mario which was tough. On Switch I completed it with all 5 characters, so either I got better, or the tweaked character speed and added air dive move helped haha
Luigi U had that horrendous fire bar level in the special world where you need to keep regular Mario to be able to ground pound for a star coin right at the end and I refuse to ever complete that level again 😂
I gave up trying to 100% SMG the moment Super Luigi Galaxy showed up. That level was maddening.
@LXP8 Yeah, I watched a video on YouTube where DGR Dave played the Impossible Pack. Even with his skill, I think he was shocked by the difficulty level.
I reckon you did better on Champion's Road than I did. I got the completion with all characters but only by adding extra players at the flagpole using extra controllers. I was only ever able to finish the level using Peach and her floaty jump.
You're not gonna believe this, dude, but my overarching memory of Luigi U is that fire bar level, too! 🤣
I only discovered this by accident, but if you cut really tight to the back edge of the first fire bar, you can just sprint and jump through the rest of it without having to adjust your speed in any way. Is that how you did it too?
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement about the NSMBU challenge; that's really amazing. Congrats to yourself as well for being among the minority of players who've actually finished it!
If I ever get that gold, I'll tag you right here with the news. 😛
I’ve beaten each of the ‘Lost Levels’ individually in Super Mario Bros. DX.
I dread to think what it would be like to play them consecutively in the original game.
Completing the Lost Levels on my Mario Game and Watch remains one of my greatest accomplishments in life
@BongoBongo: And so it should be, dude! Completing a game like The Lost Levels on a two-inch screen is no easy task. GG!
(Also, as the owner of an SMB Game & Watch, I see that you are a person of culture. 😌👌)
@LXP8: Tagging you just to say that I got the gold on "Don't. Touch. Anything." Another two and a half hours of attempts was enough for everything to miraculously come together.
Thanks again for sending the positivity that you did!
I may take a little flak for this, but ive been gaming for 40 years, played every mario game, enjoyed most of them, but have only ever beaten 1. I always get frustrated at certain points and move on.
The one Ive beaten though i 100% completed. Odyssey. Something about it just clicked with me. (Note im not including mario rpg which i cleared back in the day 100% and am looking forward to again)
My 8 year old daughter has cleared 3 of them though, odyssey, bowsers fury, and sunshine. Shell start on wonder this xmas when santa brings it lol
Edit: I just recalled i also cleared galaxy on wii, not 100%, but pretty close.
@Banjo- oddly enough, im the complete opposite. I loved odyssey, but didnt click with smb64 or sunshine.
@Runex2121 Maybe it's because of your comment above, that you found Odyssey a pleasant easy ride and the others frustrating. The most fun Super Mario Odyssey gave me was Luigi's online mini game. It's not that I didn't try to like it, I cleared everything except for some pointless moons.
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