While games like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate strive to be as balanced as possible, one fighting game not as concerned about keeping the playing field level is the Samurai Shodown reboot, coming to the Nintendo Switch later this year.
Following on from six Genjuro Kibagami players making the finals bracket at Evo 2019, the game's director Nobuyuki Kuroki said a balance patch would likely be released in the near future, but noted how the reboot was never going to be completely flat:
I feel that if you make everything too flat in a game like Samurai Shodown, it’s going to be boring. There is a lot of character personality, even among how weak or strong they are. There’s going to be some balancing, but we’re never going to make it completely flat.
Kuroki also explained how unique player styles need to be taken into account when balancing. For example, he considers Japanese players to be more methodical in terms of research and how they play the game, whereas western players are more aggressive in battle. Ultimately, though, he just wants the game's community to grow:
I really just want more and more people to jump into the game, play it, bring as many playstyles as possible, and keep growing the community
What do you think about Kuroki's comments regarding balance in fighting games? Tell us below.
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 42
Who would want to play a game where skills and skills alone determines who wins? My favorite type of fighting games are the ones where you just hit each other till the timer runs out and then you roll a virtual dice to see who wins.
If I can't play Fox vs Fox, Final Destination, no items, in Samurai Showdown, then its not a balanced game and its a game for children and its not a game for elite gamers like me and I won't stand for it and I won't support it and I won't buy it!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY
Street Fighter 1 is the only perfectly balanced game in the Street Fighter series. Everyone loved that game, didn’t they?
This is just.......... so not true it’s laughable. Why would anyone want to play unbalanced? Intentionally?? Then everyone would only use like two characters.. cough melee cough
Honestly yeah, a truly perfectly balanced fighting game would only have one character. That's the only real way to make a perfectly balanced fighting game. As soon as you add just one more fighter with a different move set, there are going to be advantages and disadvantaged to each and they will never perfectly line up.
Kinda makes sense. No one cared about “balance” when Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, or the first Soul Caliber came out. Are rereleases of those games perfectly balanced now? Probably not.... (Hums along)
It’s called an upset. People love upsets in any competitive game. Little Mac beats all the big muscle. With perfect balance you’d lose a range of emotions and suspense.
There are enough people that know pure math does not create a narrative. Want a mathematical game? Well, you’re boring
That makes sense. I mean, flat balance is boring, and so is wild imbalance, so striking a nice middle ground is the way to go. Just cater to different play styles and don't make anyone too over or under-powered, and you're good. Regardless, I hope this game runs well on Switch and also doesn't look terrible. 60 FPS but also preferably not aliased 480p, hopefully it's optimized well.
I actually forgot this game was coming to Switch.
This game is so hype, I cannot wait for the switch release.
On topic: I would rather have an imbalanced game with lots of unique characters than a balance game with a bunch of clones. Of course, if the imbalance is so bad that your friends only pick one specific character, there's no point in creating all the variation since nobody will use it. Gotta at least aim for a little bit of balance.
@BacklogBlues yes that’s exactly what this is
@rxchrisg I can smell your sarcasm, and it. is. glorious.
I couldn't agree more. Weaker/slower/less experienced players should have the option to pick a relatively stronger character in order to have a fighting chance. If you are actually any good, you won't begrudge them that.
Honestly I agree with him. Part of the fun of playing traditional fighters is making the most out of characters who seem not viable for tournament play, and finding new ways to break the game with seemingly overpowered characters who have a high learning curve to compensate for so much power, think something like Vergil in UMvC3 or pre patch R. Mika in SFV
I know this won't resonate as well with the smash exclusive crowd because of how broken characters can get with that series, but for traditional fighters it's welcomed imo
While I understand the sentiment, I do disagree.
Most balanced fighter I can think of is Soul Calibur.
Though ARMs proved to be better balanced than I would have thought.
I agree with his sentiment. All the best fighters in history (Turbo, 3S, Melee +) have a handful of characters that are dominant. Like everyone else said the excitement and drama comes from those who choose to play lesser characters.
I mean, a perfectly balanced fighting game would require identical movesets. By making characters different, you make them uneven. Balancing is relative, you want to balance strengths and weaknesses and not have a character who is good at everything and bad at nothing.
I just wish fighting game developers would stop trying to re-balance them period. Release the game the way they want it, with all the characters included (none of this "buy the game with most of the characters on the cart and then buy the rest as DLC later" nonsense), and leave it that way. No DLC, no patches, and no forced online connectivity. I want the whole finished game on the cart or I'm not buying it, which I suppose is why I haven't bought any fighting games at all for the last two console generations.
@gloom it's realistic... In the real life you will never find 20 fighters with the same fighting skills in a tournament. I agree with him... Keep the differences between fighters!
For example I don't like that in db fighterz someone with Crillin can beat another one with Vegeth... It's ridicoulus😂
For multiplayer it needs to be at least a bit balance but for single player having the AI to be a bit stronger will offer more challenge and fun to the game. I grew up playing Mortal Kombat and SNK fighting games where it usually take multiple nights to master the game just to beat the final boss and this is coming from a guy who didn't beat Mortal Kombat II at the arcade until the year 2015 and yes I do know a few folks who still had these arcade machines around. Also kudos to SNK for adding Haohmaru to Soul Calibur VI, now if only Namco would return the favor and add Talim or Taki to Samurai Shodown for Switch I would be very happy.
Typically if fighting game enthusiasts want a near-perfectly-balanced experience, they play Virtua Fighter, anyway.
Man, having VF5: Final Showdown on the Switch would be kinda sick.
I have noticed that a most of these demands for "balance" seem to come from people who are super competitive about their gaming. Like, they aren't into trying to have fun with the games, they are trying to take them as seriously as possible.
@PBandSmelly you can make a fighting game that have just one character. There you go: perfectly balanced fighting game.
Would be boring, that I agree.
I agree. What if boxing and MMA only had completely equal opponents? That would be boring and every record would likely be .500 with no anticipation of anything other than 50% odds.
@JayJ
Yeah. I mean, dont you really want to show up that jackwagon friend who always picks the obvious strong character by beating them up with a weak one?
Now I’m never buying this game lol, the director is a F$&@ing idiot
It makes sense in a realism sort of way. There's no reason a fighter like, say, Cammy, should realistically be able to do a ton of damage at the same rate as a guy like Zangief. The point is to take advantage of your strengths and downplay your weaknesses, even if you have very few of the former and a lot of the latter. Some characters should be more difficult to win with than others, sure.
But if a fighting game tournament occurs with six people all playing the same character, there's something deeply wrong with the game's character designs. Something would definitely need to be done.
This is some poor wording because it creates a really polarized perception; either he is:
a) making a needlessly hyperbolic allusion to Street Fighter 1's single character roster and "perfect balance" which absolutely NO ONE is trying to be right now and it is almost a platitude at this point that 100% balance is never the goal if you want a diverse experience
or
b) genuinely endorsing a zero-balancing policy which NO ONE is following right now and this would significantly mar potential for game longevity as the casual market will carry the game in the early months, and the competitive scenes will decide when the game's time is up
or possible third option
c) criticizing the act of balancing and how it can ruin characters for players, to which I'd point him in the direction of the last BlazBlue game or a multitude of modded old school fighters where the devs have decided to just buff everyone to the point of insanity, sparking more drive for players to experiment with characters rather than dropping their favorites or quitting entirely
Either way, this was a really silly way to voice an opinion on balancing. Especially given he is probably fully aware SamSho's core fan base will be old school fighting game players.
@Ayye-ant I think people are misinterpreting things. He emphasized play style, no set of play styles are perfectly balanced. I think he meant that they would balance the game but not to the extent that it blocks the varying play styles of the characters. Tekken 7 follows that and seems balanced enough that there aren’t any established tiers so to speak.
I’m so excited for this game. Samurai Showdown 2 is my favorite so far in the series. I hope Jubei is in the game. He’s my main. I also really like Nicotine. Oh and toughest opponent for me was Cham Cham! She gave me nightmares. Pretty much “Blancas wife”. But scarier.
@Zanzox Yes, because in all my fighting games in which I throw fire balls and stab people without dying that is exactly what I am looking for #Realism
@Chunkboi79 It's clear that REALISM in intended as " " .... Dragonball is not realistic at all for example... but Vegeth beaten by Crillin is unrealistic into an unrealistic world
@Zanzox Difference is it's a video game where sure there might be a joke character here and there. However, like in Bayonetta's case in sm4sh. She broke the meta for the game, and basically ruined it. Even Zero said that. Having an unbalanced roster really effects the longevity of the characters too. I mean I play smash online and win I would say roughly 80% of the time with mid tiers. However, the competitive scene keeps the game alive. Why make an unbalanced roster when you could make a balanced roster and see the competitive scene utilize all of the characters. Smash Ultimate is extremely balanced and there is an extreme variety of characters.
Balanced doesn't mean flat, it means every character has their equal weaknesses and strengths.
@Kriven because if you are a Crillin fan, you also know is a weak character... xenoverse 2 for example recreate this aspect quite good... and it isn't a bad game for that (also is not a competitive game maybe...but is good instead)
I miss pure technical fighters. SEGA, please port VF5FS.
I guess I now got my answer to why Chang is so consistently terrible in every KoF game.
As long as I can mop the floor with my opponents as Charlotte, I'll be happy.
Exactly, let things like they was suposed to be. In snes era and neo geo era, dont existed internet to do this updates and nobody complain. Why? Because balancing after release sucks.
I can totally relate to this because well known games that are very balance heavy (like SFV and MK11 and Pokken) get practically boring and the best type of matches to see are when someone plays a lesser known character or a character that is known to be bad to use. This statement isn't worded right but I totally understand it
Man, I'm enjoying how ridiculous this article is. From using Ultimate as an example of balance, to promoting lack of balance as enjoyable.
Five bucks says this is a mistranslation and he's saying he wants a diverse cast as opposed to Haohmaru vs Haohmaru only.
I'm surprised so many people support lack of balance. I find unbalanced fighters boring to watch and play (multiplayer/online). I hate seeing the same character over, and, and over, and over, and over, and over.....
"it's exciting to see someone succeed against a stronger character!!!1" Yeah, the handful of times that actually happens. The other 99.9% of the time it's Fox v. Fox on FD, or Doom/Virgil/Zero vs Doom/Virgil/Zero. So exciting /s
I have the new Samurai Shodown on PS4, and I really haven't noticed anything I'd consider really unbalanced. I think it's gameplay across the characters is quite good. Unfortunately, the game is really light on content. 16 characters (four extra as a pre-order bonus), a basic single player tournament and online. There's just not a lot to keep you engaged.
Reading the comments here remind me of a Young Ones episode. It’s the repeating of the word boring so all I can hear is their voices saying “BORING”. Lol
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