
Update: To avoid any upset or confusion on the matter, and for the sake of clarification: as we currently understand it, only game cartridges that have been used to create illegal copies of its software will receive online bans from Nintendo. Most pre-owned cartridges, and those that you have purchased yourself brand new, will still work with no issues.
Original Article: The Nintendo Switch has been subject to some pretty serious hacking attempts for some time now, with various exploits and vulnerabilities appearing throughout its short lifetime. Just a couple of months ago, one prominent hacker praised Nintendo's efforts in regards to security for the console, but stated that it's "completely compromised" due to its reliance on Nvidia's Tegra hardware.
It appears that Nintendo has now taken a rather bold - and potentially devastating - move in order to combat these growing concerns. Reports have surfaced suggesting that some pre-owned Switch game cartridges have been banned from accessing any online features - a feat made possible thanks to unique identification keys (or certificates) attached to individual game carts. When accessing online features with an affected game, the following error code is displayed.
One of the Switch's current security issues allows hackers to copy data from official game carts, enabling dumped ROMs of these games to be shared online and ran through emulators. Nintendo can trace these pirated copies back to the original game cart thanks to its unique certificate, and any carts being used in this manner seem to be receiving instant bans when they access online features, presumably being detected by Nintendo the second an online connection is formed.
Of course, punishing the hackers who own the original copy of the game makes sense, and taking away their online privileges in response to pirating software is more than understandable, but there are more issues that come as a result of this. Essentially, if an innocent customer buys a used copy of a Nintendo Switch game, there is no way for them to know whether or not the game they're buying has been used illegally in the past. If it has, their game won't be able to access any online functionalities and they'll get an unforgiving online ban in the process.
As it stands, if a customer buys a second-hand copy of a game on a rival platform such as the PS4 or Xbox One, they can have complete confidence that the game will be safe to use. On Switch, this isn't the case, and this is a glaring problem for both Nintendo, and the pre-owned gaming market in general. With Nintendo being just months away from entering a new age for its online gaming functionalities, and with many of its system-selling games such as Splatoon 2, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, and the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Ultimate using online features, having a swarm of banned cartridges floating around second-hand stores will only cause issues and upset for customers, as well as bad press for Nintendo itself.
We have contacted Nintendo for a statement on the matter, but are yet to hear back. We will, of course, update this article should any statement be made.
[source reddit.com, via gadgets.ndtv.com]
Comments 172
My god you picked the perfect screenshot for this <3
Will they ban the account itself only for online play or rick the console? Or make the game unplayable?
Well it is up to the buyer to check that the card it not banned and refuse to buy if it is.
And if it is via stores or ebay or equivalent, there is always a way to complain.
I think that people who buy the game, dump it then sell it are probably quite stupid, because that leave traces and will allow to go back to them, so, I don't think it is going to happen soon, unless the dumper is pretty stupid.
But how many people dump their cartridges on a regular basis?
Nintendo what the f
Hmmm, can't help thinking the piracy explanation is just an excuse to cripple the second hand market in the hope of making more new game sales.
Good thing I buy new Switch games instead of pre-owned Switch games.
This isn't really bad right? Nintendo has a customer service and provided you can show you bought the the game secondhand, I don't see an issue?
Places like Gamestop etc generally check games are working before selling them don't they?
I guess they'd be the one to suffer if someone traded in a banned cart. Seems more like a retailer's problem.
There's something they're overlooking for this which pretty much mitigates the risk; the Switch's portability.
All a game stop [or other relevant trade-in store] employee needs to do is have a Switch handy, and they'll instantly be able to try out a game card before accepting the trade-in, or they can test a game card they're about to sell.
Most stores have some sort of wifi, so a simple test of online functionality only takes a few minutes.
And if the store employee won't do it, then the customer can simply purchase the game and test it in-or-near-store with their own Switch.
In either case, if it doesn't work, then getting one that works right then and there is a simple matter.
Unlike PS4 and XB, which both require TV's to be tested in-store, the Switch has no such limitation since it has its own screen.
I would hope they can see how many times it's been played on different consoles and could make a guess from that. It's unlikely that a legitimate copy of the cart would get played on more than 10 Switch consoles in its life, surely? Or maybe if they are online from different consoles at the samme time? There must be ways around blocking all pre-owned games as the article suggests.
Is this only for online multiplayer or it also mean that the game won't be able to get updates and DLC?
@Zuljaras They’re preventing that copy of the game from being played online. So if you owned a Game Card of the same software that hadn’t been compromised, there would be no restrictions.
@Godzil "Well it is up to the buyer to check that the card it not banned and refuse to buy if it is."
And how, pray tell, one does that?
I wonder if this will not go too broadly. I got Zelda and ARMS second hand, and my GF plays Zelda on her own account using the same cart. It would suck to get locked out of online because of this. I feel especially at risk as my Zelda copy is NA and I'm based in EU.
My console itself is second hand!
@Zuljaras
Nope; apparently they just lock out that particular game card.
This can cause a problem in the second hand market, which can end up becoming the only source to acquire certain games that have limited production runs.
The only way around is for the second hand stores to test online features which is time consuming. Could even result in there being two types of used games; restricted and full second hand carts.
Whilst I empathise with Nintendo at trying to stamp out piracy, this may be taking things too far and could lead to major backlash.
@Zuljaras Rick a console?
Did you by any chance mean "rig" or "brick?"
If Nintendo detects a hacked card, they'll still not let it be used online.
How many hackers have hacked game cards and how many of them will actually sell them?
I think this problem is overblown and people will freak out about how noone worldwide will be able to buy/sell used switch games.
On a side note: so far I've always bought new and I sold 3 game cards without hacking them, so willpower I guess.
@smashbrolink What if I'm buying a cart from eBay or similar service, or an online second hand store.
@SmaggTheSmug Bring your Switch into the store with you and test it right there and then with some local wifi.
Most stores have it, so it's not hard.
You can't do that with PS4 and XB1, but since the Switch has its own screen, taking it in with you to test the game and then getting an immediate refund if it doesn't work, is easy.
@smashbrolink I was asking about buying used games on eBay, i.e. online.
I don't have time and money to travel half a country and back just to test out a gamecart. Nevermind buying from abroad.
@smashbrolink @G_M @Emperor-Palpsy
But they will lock it like brick it (the cartridge) so It can't be played at all or only for online?
I just can't understand it. If the cartridge was used the normal way just playing it would be ok right? Only the hacking will be detected?
I can't imagine not being able to buy second hand games!
Some people just do not like what they bought. That is how I got my Lego Worlds.
@SmaggTheSmug Online purchases have a lot more risks than the game card possibly being bricked; some put up fake ads and then send you a different product entirely.
One guy bought a PS4 off of Ebay and got a PS4 box with a literal brick inside of it. HOUSING brick, not bad electronics.
If you happened to get a bad cartridge out of an online purchase, it's really no different than if they had sent you the wrong product; it's a risk you take every time you shop online.
Some have methods of getting the money back for you, but I wouldn't rely on online shopping for second-hand games if I can avoid it.
If someone sells you a card after they've gotten it bricked, then it's not Nintendo's fault; it's the fault of the jerk-off who got it bricked then decided to dupe someone with it.
@Cinaclov That's what they did with the 3DS. A console/game card only gets banned if two different consoles are using a game with the same header at the same time
Oh, GOSH....
My ARMS & 1-2-Switch are Used games, bought from someone.
Please don't lock my games, Nintendo !
@SmaggTheSmug as long as your game card wasn't hacked. Also they apparently only lock you out of the online areas of the game....so worst case when they bring a free pvp update to Zelda, you might not be able to play if your card was hacked.
Arms is a bit riskier, but since they've already implemented this change, try playing online in Arms. If it works, you're safe forever.
They will continue to protect region free, a main selling point of the console.
@Zuljaras The article says it only restricts the online portion.
So in other words, don't buy $10 switch games from someone named NSW_HAX on eBay.
@smashbrolink At least that is good as I do not play online games or online multiplayer.
@Anti-Matter
They won't ban your games/console just because you bought it second hand! 🙄
It's okay when Nintendo does it.
Meh, they'll find a way to change the certificate on the ROM.
Nintendo new slogan "There's No Pay Like It"
Or “A New Way to Pay”
This will help discourage people from selling bootlegs. eBay and the like have policies to help buyers get their money back from such scammers. Now the scammers will just be easier to catch.
From Nintendo's point of view, the secondhand market isn't something that benefits them anyway. So if this policy helps encourage more people to go buy the game new and sealed, that's good for Nintendo.
Incorrect news, but who will read this comment.
The game is blocked only if you try to play the game online without the game cart inserted.
The moment you insert the game cart in the system, the game is recertified and works online and offline just fine.
Basically, your NEED to have the ORIGINAL game cart from the backup ROM in order to play the game on the Switch.
You can use the game cart on your other Switch's and your friend Switch just fine.
@GoodBytes
Is that true ?
Oh, that so relief to hear....
But what about E-Shop games ?
They had been installed first, right ?
No game cards bans (As of yet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJxvBBAc84
@dystome they aren't doing this to people that aren't pirating. I can tell you this because I just barely sold my Splatoon 2 cart to a co-worker (the $40 eShop sale convinced me to open digitally instead) and she hasn't had ANY problems playing
If you buy the used game from a shop, you shouldn't have any problem returning it for a full refund if it doesn't work online.
Stability update?
Couldn't they just ban the consoles pirating games and leave the card alone? This is pretty much like the old online passes from EA but worse.
Maybe Nintendo should empower places like EB Games and Game Stop to be able to dectect if games are pirated before they buy them, so it isn't 100% on the consumer. If I buy a used car, its on me to check the car history, but its on the dealership to ensure that it wasn't stolen.
@Shigmin
Not always though they used to.
That being said, the second market is nothing compared to what it once was. Most second gand places are selling games ar damn near retail price which is a joke anyway. Regular online sales are the way to procure cheap games nowadays.
"Bad press for Nintendo" that somehow implies pre-owned game market is any of their concern whatsoever? Unless DLC is involved, used card buyers shouldn't even be on the sales figures map, should they? Now that the countermeasures are known (and you can bet the hacking communities keep their hands on the pulse of such news), reselling a dumped card (or even giving it away) can only qualify as a conscious scam on the part of whoever involved this chain starts with. Will they be to blame? Will the message for guiltless customers be to exercise caution? Nope, Nintendo is the bad guy again. ¯(ツ)/¯
Well, whoever is tempted to sell their Switches with the aforesaid logic is more than welcome to do so. And whoever may be deterred from a purchase by it wouldn't look like a veritable userbase addition from game publishers' perspective anyway.
Typical Nintendo Life overreaction as per the norm these days.
The amount of banned games would be miniscule and if someone did buy one second hand they return it and get a refund or replacement.
Mountains and molehills springs to mind.
@Alantor28 I 100% agree; I usually have no problem buying preowned games/amiibo/whatever, but for a few reasons I swore it off on games for the Switch. Now I have another reason.
wrong. as always.
stop reporting about the homebrew scene, thanks.
Game cards are still usable, but people trying to play the copied game won't be able to do so anymore, since they only ban people who play the copied game.
Well, they can probably still play it with cfw, but not online.
I haven't bought a pre owned game in about 15 years, so this won't affect me. They do need to resort to extreme measures, especially with paid online play, as I refuse to pay to play online if hacking is a big thing, PS+ and Live are pretty secure although not totally.
PC online gaming often gets totally ruined, but at least you don't pay. Having said that I've had my Sea Of Thieves ruined many times, as there's cross play with PC, wish I could select to only play with people on the same platform
@nitroBW
So, your report was the actual news ?
Phew....
I had played again my ARMS (used original games, bought from someone) Online it was Fine because i knew i used Original cartridge even being second handed.
@GoodBytes sounds like an important update. Maybe more people will read it if @ryancraddock himself is made aware?
Nintendo: the control freaks of gaming!
Article needs to be updated as the information is incorrect.Cards will not be banned!
Even if it was correct I don't understand why it would kill the 2nd hand market. All stores would need to do is check the game on an in-store console that's connected to Internet before accepting the trade in and the consumer can buy with confidence knowing the card has been checked. Problem solved, easy! Except the problem does not exist in the first place.
@Alantor28 That´s pretty selfish, don´t you think? Not everyone can afford to pay 60 bucks for a game they want to play, where in the second hand market we can find it for 30-35. And yes, we could wait for an offer, but Nintendo don´t seem to like much this kind of stuff...
@Anti-Matter it'd be more than stupid to ban the original game card, Nintendo knows damn well that reselling is a thing, furthermore can they see which Account/ Console was the first to "register" a game card as theirs.
Nintendo has always been kind with their banhammer, it would very much surprise me if they decided to ban everyone who they even only suspect.
3DS bans only went out to people who actually tinkered with their consoles and broke the ToS, your second-hand game card itself is not breaking any ToS.
Mostly buying all my games new, this isn't an issue for me, and given how most stores selling second-hand games do so for almost the same price as a new one anyways , well, I won't shed a tear for them..
I agree though, that this could prove slightly problematic for person-to-person sales on auction sites. Sure, you can complain and ask for refund of a non-working item, but still... it only adds more risks to these transactions.
But learning this made me curious. If Nintendo can actually track down individual carts (as long as the console is online), could this mean they can detect on how many consoles a single cart has been played? This kind of opens up all sort of various analytic tools for them. Knowing how many consoles some carts are played on might give some insight on how second had sales are really affecting some titles. Probably far from being 100% accurate data (because there are other scenarios to explain multiple plays on different consoles), but at least, that would be a general indication.
@OorWullie good point but have you seen the people who work in game stores? The missing link springs to mind!
@G_M
I think he meant "Rick-rolled"... the player is constantly tortured by Rick Astley while playing, as punishment.
@GoodBytes
Quoting for good measure "
Incorrect news, but who will read this comment.
The game is blocked only if you try to play the game online without the game cart inserted.
The moment you insert the game cart in the system, the game is recertified and works online and offline just fine.
Basically, your NEED to have the ORIGINAL game cart from the backup ROM in order to play the game on the Switch.
You can use the game cart on your other Switch's and your friend Switch just fine."
Thanks for this.
Yet again it shows that the site shouldn't jump the gun with these types of articles as there have been too many mistakes as of late.
And this only creates fear and confusion that ends up leading it's own life even after a correction is made.
Not only that, but these corrections always seem to come way too late as well.
Something like this needs to be well-researched and crystal clear before put up on a mainstream site.
I wouldn't worry too much about bootleg cartridges being produced. This isn't the DS era where most ROMs were only a few megs in size.
Hell, even major publishers aren't putting their games on cartridge! What hope do bootleggers have?
Killing the second hand market has been on the cards for the big 3 for a number of years now.
It used to be that users protested against this because it let them trade in to get the latest releases, but here in the UK the only place you can physically do this on most high streets is GAME who have a monopoly on that market. Cex, it’s only rival since Grainger went only sells 2nd hand games anyway.
But the convenience of downloads, the weekly eshop/PSN/XBL sales and the high prices of 2nd hand games (£50 for Zelda in Cex) have nearly killed that market.
You should buy your games new anyway
@meppi64 Thanks for clearing that up.
When you buy used games, Nintendo and 3rd party developers will not earn any money... you may as well pirate those games, it's safer than paying for a banned cartridge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJxvBBAc84
You can still use the original game card, Nintendo is just capable of detecting whether you're using the real thing or a back-up and can block those back-up games.
Next time NintendoLife, wait a bit and do more research before posting okay?...
@dystome Crippling the second hand market? are you actually serious?
The only thing they're stopping here is illegal copies of a game. This doesn't effect normal second hand games at all. This just means that retailers will have to check if the online services work before selling games. And i think there's a lot less illegal ones than normal. So please think about the topic and the consequences before commenting conspiracies.
And this goes to Nintendolife as well. I would really like some more Nintendo criticism of you from time to time, but you should really first think about what that actually means before posting stuff like this. And if this was just because of that sweet clickbait than well, even worse.
"Impossible to know if pre-owned games are safe"? How about checking if the online services work? And if you tell now that you can't check if the online services work if you buy it second hand, well you also can't check if the cartridge actually works.
go nintendo
They need to create a way stores can test cards easily before they accept them as a trade in. Done
After reading all of the comments then leaving the article and going back to the front page and seeing the headline again I think this may be the most click-bait article of all time on NL, and that's saying something.
Better titles:
"Switch Cards that have been ROM dumped will not be playable online"
If that is even accurate, which it doesn't seem to be.
"Switch game ROMs downloaded from carts will not work online if the cart isn't in the Switch"
There is no reason to mention the second-hand market AT ALL in the title, pure hyperbole.
If Nitneod does lock a cart to a console, well they have more to worry about than the second-hand market, like siblings and family who buy 1 game and share it among the "more than 1 Switch per family" that Nitneod is trying to achieve. And it would kill Labo in schools where they might have 6 Switch and 3 copies each of the variety pack and robot and kids keep taking them in and out.
They might as well go all digital at that point, but it won't happen. Nintnedo might really be doomed then.
Non-story.
Wouldn't say this is a good solution; you can still play a game, just not online. What a solution for a pirated ROM like Breath of the Wild..
Phew, I read the title of this and thought Nintendo were stopping the production of game cards.
There's a good thing that could come out of this, however unlikely. Since each cart has a certificate linked to that particular cart's unique identifier, Nintendo could possibly offer the owner a digital copy of the game at a discount and then invalidate it once that cart has been used in a different console or with a different account (i.e. sold or given away). It could also be possible to mark a cart as stolen and invalidate the cart itself.
This article is false, the certificate is banned, not the gamecard itself,.
if you backed it up and put in a gamecard it should still work normally, as long as you have the OG gamecard inserted whilst playing, this is simply a ban towards backed up games
@Bunkerneath
I also read the title that Nintendo was going to stop producing physical carts too!
Isn't this illegal in EU law? I'm sure there was a big case a couple years ago about 2nd hand games? Could be wrong though.
Does this mean there's a potential risk to the region free functionality as well?
This Article makes a bigger problem out of it than really exists:
1. it is not that there are millions of hacker Cardridges out in the market
2. if you buy second hand you should always buy from reliable sources and check what you get
Weathers beautiful. I need a drink before I start reading
I’ll selfishly comment that since I buy 100% digital on my Switch I couldn’t care less that Nintendo is doing this. Seems like worse case scenario is you return the used game to where you bought it for a refund or exchange.
@Alantor28 Thats nice... but it's a shame Nintendo just potentially lowered the price of something you own.
Is it really likely to be a huge issue? Pirates first instinct won’t be to buy a game, rip it, then sell it. Surely they’ll go online and see if a rip exists and if so, they’ll use that. There’s likely no advantage in re-ripping the same game multiple times if the intent is to use an emulator that won’t look to ban a specific ID anyway.
With that being the case, the pool of compromised keys would likely be incredibly small and your odds of hitting such a cart surely has to be similar to winning the lotto. I think you’ll find the same ROM rip simply spreads broadly. Look at other pirated content and the number of unique copies is drawfed by the number of downloads per a copy, possibly hundreds of thousands to millions per single rip. What’s the chance you’ll hit that original source copy, assuming it even goes back into the retain chain. Even then many retailers will have protections in place. You’re probably just as or more likely to get a damaged cart I’d suggest.
You’re probably more at risk if Nintendo starts to block carts that were used on a console that had home brew or was associated with an online account that did something against the EULA, but that seems unlikely to me.
Remember when Microsoft wanted to do that for the Xbox One, Nintendo?
@smashbrolink who buys used at GameStop anymore? GameStops used games hardly save you any money while Amazon an Evay save you a good chunk.
I remember when this site before it started posting sensationalist articles. Options available to you if you purchase a game card that turns out to be banned from Nintendo:
This is definitely not the end of pre-owned games.
I don't think this article is up to date. SpawnWave has the updated story on YouTube.
"Impossible to know if click bait headlines are accurate"
A little extreme on their part, they should just ban consoles if people are caught cheating online.
Testing the cards before sale doesn't actually mitigate the problem. If I ROM dump today, sell the cart today, it will still work next week, next month. If I "share" (I like how we call piracy "sharing" now....in my day it was called "distributing warez" ) it next month, the game card gets locked whenever Nintendo discovers my copy in the wild....and whatever poor sucker that bought my cart on eBay will suddenly get a lockout after they've been playing fine for a month.
HOWEVER. The disc copy is the actual legal copy of the game and it's easily verifiable because you have a plastic cartridge and the other 3000 people showing on Nintendo's servers as playing that copy do not. This sucks because nobody wants to have to legally buy a used game and have to be subjected to this, and pirates will make life difficult for many people.
But what I do imagine with this policy is this: The lockout isn't about locking out the cart, it's about locking out all the COPIES of the cart with the same ID. Whoever has the cart, I imagine, if they contact Nintendo, Nintendo will probably treat it as a "defective" cart and send a new one with a non-blocked ID or some such thing as a "warranty" type service. Because we don't BUY games. Not even physically. Read the EULA, you're only purchasing a licence whether physical or digial. Thus if you have the cart (+ possibly a proof of purchase/receipt), you have a valid license that's not working....so they're technically obligated to provide a working license.
Inconvenient, but I don't think anyone will end up totally screwed if you possess the cart. It's its own proof of validity.
Still, it's going to be a mess buying used games on Amazon/eBay etc. This will be a boon for individual game stores like GameStop that makes exchanges easy.
@CrazyOtto Nah, Microsoft wanted your disc copy to convert itself into a digital unlock key so it was forever tied to your account and you couldn't sell it because buying a used copy meant paying a fixed "re-licensing" fee to get a new key for your account. Sony was going to do the same but backpedaled after it blew up in XBone's face. I.E. used copies didn't exist in any form because there was nothing to sell.
This is different, this is: If you buy a cart that was previously owned by a pirate who duped it and posted it on the internet, your cartridge will get locked (but should be able to be returned/exchanged/"repaired" until you get a good one since you're the valid license holder.) If you bought it from a legit owner, it's cool. Sucky. Very sucky. But nowhere on the level of outright monopolistic practices by Team Blue and Team Green they planned for 8th gen. This is only an issue if you are unlucky enough to stumble into thieves selling, effectively, counterfeits. On eBay it's a crisis. On Amazon Marketplace, it's a moderate crisis. At physical stores it's not even an issue.
@mikegamer the problem is banning the hacker's console still lets thousands of people play the rom on PC emulators. Banning the card shuts down all the emulated ROMs (well, until someone "patches" the ROM....but once ROM patches to remove they key happen, then this won't actually be locking any carts anyway since it won't even be traceable to the cart.
Realistically, this is hardly going to become a big problem. It's very doubtful that many games, if any, used by said pirates will suddenly 'flood' the second hand market; one or two might slip through, but the hackers will likely find some alternative method to get round it anyway.
This is not nearly as bad as the headline lead on (so kudos on an effective headline!) I built my collection on the second hand market but Nintendo didn't get a dime of that money. So if these second hand cards were used for piracy, I don't blame Nintendo for killing them regardless of present ownership.
As long as you buy second hand from a reputable seller who tests and offers returns, this should not be a problem.
This could be problematic once games eventually go out of production and can only be aquired through second-hand markets.
@Godzil Except there will be no way to know if its banned or not until you put it in and Nintendo block your system. You cant just go online and find out as the carts code is build into the thing itself not printed on a label like a serial. You wouldnt know until its too late.
This is a horrible idea, i get they want to stop piracy but one of the best ways to do that is to stop price locking games. A 3 year old release should not still be $80. If its on Steam, PSN or Xbox the games always drop permanently after a year or so. People are not willing to spend $80 on a game that came out that long ago. The other issue is charging full price for a re-release. Look at Mario Kart, they did almost nothing to it and it cost the full price tag.
Look at Crash Trilogy, Spyro Trilogy, Gears, Halo anything. Major improvements over the old and still at a reduced price.
I thought people that make roms for their games just do so to back up the games they love.
@CrimsonMoonMist Out of, say, 500,000 copies of an under-performing game produced, I can't imagine more than a dozen or two will have been used to upload pirated copies. If there's already a dozen pirated versions, who needs to dupe more? I see it more of a problem for specific sellers with a big time pirate as a source....I.E. if your GameStop location has a cracking ring down the street they'll keep getting pirate copies of everything, but most stores would never see one. That sort of thing.
And again, by then, the ROMS will just have the id forged and won't be traceable anymore so no carts get locked. I give it 6 months from now, tops
@earthinheritor: The solution to theft is to not overcharge. Good to know. Darn Porche...if only they didn't charge so dang much. How's the little guy supposed to buy one? We shoudln't be denied one. And then they wonder why they get carjacked? The only solution is clear: Porches shouldn't be more than $1000, otherwise they're just asking for this! Who wants a 2018 MacBook Pro? They're obscenely overpriced, so we'll just "liberate" a few shipments of them and "share" them for fairness! I mean it's to be expected!
I agree, Nintendo's pricing often sucks (though other companies/platforms underprice which is a different problem), but that doesn't mean "well of course piracy happens, it's too expensive!"....the whole point of civilization is to NOT think that way. Otherwise we should all go back to caves and start spearing each other for shiny rocks.
@idrawrobots LOL, indeed, I mean what if you drop your cartridge in the toilet and flush? Without your backup so you could sacrifice and play it on your PC in 4k at 120fps, you'd be unfairly out of money! And then where would you get carts for homebrew? I've read on NL these emulators are all about homebrew, which is why they always talk about it here. I mean it's not like people are building emulators for piracy. So no carts will get locked, right?
Even assuming they are truly perma-banning the cart, would it even really be worth worrying about? How many people actually dump & share their roms? Surely an infinitesimally small number of people. Once there's a clean dump of a game, there's little to no reason for someone else to do it.
That, combine with @GoodBytes' comment, leads me to believe this truly is a non-issue, even if we're talking about the worst case scenario of perma-banning a cart.
EDIT: @GoodBytes, forgot to ask for a source, if you've got it. Would like to read up a bit more on the issue.
"some pre-owned Switch game cartridges have been banned from accessing any online features"
So...this is exactly what Microsoft wanted to do with XBO initially, and the internet rioted. There will be massive outrage here, if true, right? Or are fanboys going to defend Nintendo's continued anti-consumer practices?
Edit: I wrote this comment in response to the ideas behind the original version of this article. It doesn't reflect the reality of the current situation. My below comments are more intelligent...
If this is happening, along with the inevitable demise of Gamestop, with their stocks just continuing to drop, it looks like the industry is steadily getting closer to what they want: killing off the second hand used market.
I can understand things like banning accounts, IP addresses, console ID's, and detecting forged tickets that are without official identifiers. Nintendo has actually stepped up and improved on that front significantly, which is good. Apparently it's far tougher (impossible at the moment) to use downloaded titles with forged tickets online for Switch titles. However, remotely tampering with the usability of actual, physical game cards to reduce their functionality, regardless of who uses them? That should be illegal.
I remember people talking about this possibility years ago. Some dismissed it outright and said a company like Nintendo wouldn't do this, others said if it were to happen, the justification behind it would be bordering on Orwellian. "Crippling a physical copy of any game card used by a cheater is good, it punishes the original owner, and discourages whoever receives it second hand from cheating." This is a heavy-handed approach. Punish the originally offending owner, sure, but putting an actual curse on a game card, punishing any who may own it thereafter, should be unacceptable.
Unfortunately, people let corporations walk all over them all the time nowadays anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised if people just accept this nonsense too. This isn't a big deal right now, since this specific measure will only affect a few used copies overall. The problem is that the acceptance of this measure opens the door for Nintendo to further do as they wish with physical copies of game cards that customers purchase. You give them an inch, they'll take a mile, etc.
If people accept this, Nintendo may one day opt to implement a system where game cards require registration to a particular console, so they can't be sold used. And people will probably end up accepting that too. What's that, you might say? Nintendo would never do that? That's what people used to say about Nintendo opting to remotely tamper with the ability to fully use actual, physical game copies. Yet here we are.
Edit: I wrote this comment in response to the ideas behind the original version of this article. It doesn't reflect the reality of the current situation. My below comments are more intelligent...
Seriously, these stupid articles are going to do more to end pre-owned purchases (which aren't even viably cheap on Switch anyways), than the actual actions. It's been confirmed multiple times that if you insert a hacked gamecard in a new console, it doesn't ban the entire new console. Just that single card doesn't work.
Jesus Christ. What a jump in logic. Yeah the minute amount of ha need are going to bring down an entire market .
The title is click baity and blown out of proportion . Kinda disappointed in Nintendo life
@Mando44646 Here's the difference. They're banning about what... a dozen or so cards per game released? And these may or may not even end up on the pre-owned market. And if you do get a banned game, you can still call up Nintendo and ask them to unban it. We're talking about winning the lottery chances of it even happening in the first place, and then there's still recourse even if it does.
Meh, i typically only buy new or digital
@Eddyson Losing the receipt, waiting on Nintendo to remove the block on your account, what happens to said cart after the banning is lifted (i.e being able to use it or its just useless at that point.) etc.
@smashbrolink there wouldn’t be much to report if they couldn’t sensationalize it at least a little. Very easy for GameStop to check carts before accepting them. They won’t be stuck holding the cards. Just like they test a console before accepting they would test the carts as well.
Someone need to clarify this article.
So many Paranoid here.
Btw, is that issue about pre-owned carts has been BANNED lately ?
I had played ARMS (my ARMS was Used games, bought from someone) Online just now and it was FINE, even my ARMS cart was second handed game.
Am I the only one mislead by the title? I thought Nintendo was banning all Switch cards to combat piracy and moving to an all-digital format, which had me extremely concerned until I read the article.
People are overreacting. Every cartridge has its own individual key, so they're only banning specific carts that had their key used for hacking/piracy. Every other cart, even of the same game, will work just fine.
The secondhand market will also be just fine too, not that it's Nintendo's concern anyway, because it's a simple check. Once the secondhand market adapts and either pays less for, or stops buy hacked carts entirely, hackers/pirates will be less likely to bother selling them.
The worst case, as a consumer, is you have to excersize caution when buying secondhand game carts. Something I've already been doing for over a decade now.
@Not_Soos
After i read this article, i tested with my second handed Switch game (I used ARMS) to play Party Crash (Online) and it was working FINE.
Seems like a very small number of carts that’d be affected by this.
They aren't banning game cards. Do better research before you post an article.
Screw this. I buy games used 90% of the time.
@Alikan Believe me, I've heard and seen people sell their old 360 consoles to places like CeX that have the 3 red rings of death and got away with it. My nephew was one of the unlucky few that got a used 360 and it was red ringed. The store was good in refunding the console though (I told them Red Rings of Death, and they were pretty much "Say no more" and gave us the money back.) but yeah, if people like that can get a bit of money for their hacked/ruined stuff possibly without having to pay back the store if it's later found to be faulty like with ebay, they will.
Physical Cards aren’t getting banned. People are prevented from booting a ROM dump without a valid cartridge. Similar to trying to play Starcraft without a Starcraft or Brood War disc in the tray.
@Angelic_Lapras_King
Btw, just curious.
Is Xbox 360 Slim was the safest Xbox 360 model ?
I mean Lesser risk of RROD ?
I imagine by the time I'll be desperately buying the last second hand copy of a game in existence I'll have a Switch Emulator and a ROM. And a dusty and hacked 15 year old Switch. And the online services will probably have just been shut down, so it won't check to ban itself. But DLC and updates will be gone too. So, moot anyway. Wish it was still the 90s. Everything was final. Buy a cart. Care for the cart. Cart will still play in 30 years.
@Anti-Matter Slim and the later e model (The one that looks a bit like an XBONE), yeah. However, it was my parents that brought my nephew they system, so of course they would have no idea about this sort of thing (This was a time being a used 360 was quite a fair bit cheaper than buying a new one). I was the one that took it back to explain the issue.
They did however end up buying another used 360, same first model, from Game which still works to this day, so places do exist that test everything. But yeah, point is sometimes either items can fall off the radar or the store just assumes it'll work period.
Again a stupid thing coming from Nintendo !
DO THEY REALIZE THAT THE GAMESTORES ARE GONNA TURN AGAINST NINTENDO SYSTEMS BECAUSE THOSE STORES BASICALLY MAKE THEIR MONEY ON SECOND HAND GAMES ?
I have no doubt that Nintendo is gonna regret that...
When clients will come to buy a new console, the sellers will make them choose a playstation for example rather then a Switch...
I agree it's a good thing to stop those hackers to avoid having hacked roms in the wild, but it should never affect players who bought everything.
You know, I'm fine with this, I guess. But where is the web browser? Where are the improvements on the Switch experience? Hackers gon hack but I shouldn't have to have a half assed machine for it. They could have knocked it out the park with Switch, but to me it feels like Nintendo is resting on their success. All the little things add up, not to mention e3 was highly disappointing if you don't care about Smash, which I don't.
It's still a rumor at this point, but if it is true I'd have to side with Nintendo. If those holier than thou 'free the information' types weren't pulling the crap they were allowing carte blance warez activity on the system these steps would never have been taken. Even if Tegra isn't able to be locked down, those unique codes they can really screw with people over since it's a generated one per game cartridge. Any suffering by the innocent which even I could fall victim to as I get enough used is an acceptable loss due to bad actors causing them harm.
Jesus @NIntendoLife, what's up with your clickbait titles lately? Way to exaggerate and blow this story out of proportion.
Changing it to rumour and toning it down afterwards is not enough, you should have thought about it before first posting it. I want to keep visiting this site, but things like this can cause one to consider unsubscribing.
Seems as though this only affects cartridges used to create illegal copies. I would think this would have virtually no impact on the secondhand market.
@LUIGITORNADO: No joke, I just bought a new copy of DQVIII off Walmart that was cheaper than what GameStop wants for a pre-owned copy (non-pro members).
@smashbrolink the issue is that if you use a banned gamecart, it will ban your entire switch. You won't be able to go online at all. So each store would have to always have an unbanned switch handy, or you would have to be willing to Rick a console ban to test a cart
@NEStalgia Thank you for letting me know that, especially the pirated cartridges can be repaired part. No offense to the people at Nintendo Life but that was the clickbaitiest article title they've ever had.
Let me know if this is okay to post, but there's more details on this issue here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_strong_antipiracy_measures_implemented_by/
In particular, of note:
"If you are playing from a game card, your certification is your game card's unique certificate. This is signed by Nintendo using RSA-2048-PCKS#1 at the time your game card is written, and contains encrypted information about your game card (this includes what game is on the game card, among other, unknown details)."
"In the game card case, Nintendo can detect whether or not the user connecting has data from a Nintendo-authorized game card for the correct title. This solves the 3ds-era issue of game card header data being shared between games. Additionally, there's a fair amount of other, unknown (encrypted) data in a certificate being uploaded — and certificates are also linked to Nintendo Accounts when gold points are redeemed. Sharing of certificates should be fairly detectable, for Nintendo."
"In the digital game case, Nintendo actually perfectly prevents online piracy here. Tickets cannot be forged, and Nintendo can verify that the device ID in the ticket matches the device ID for the client cert connecting (banning on a mismatch), as well as that the account ID for the ticket matches the Nintendo Account authorizing to log in. Users who pirate games cannot have well-signed tickets for their consoles, and thus cannot connect online without getting an immediate ban."
The good thing here is that pirated digital copies are detected very quickly, and no harm is done to users other than the offender. Nothing wrong with this, that's how it should be done in that case.
The bad thing here is if someone buys a used copy of a game card that was previously linked with an offending account where cheating/piracy was detected. The game card's certificate (and other encrypted info) are forever associated by Nintendo with having been used by an offender.
If someone else unwittingly happens upon and purchases that game card second hand, then tries to link it with their account, Nintendo will recognize that game card as having previously been used by an offender. This could potentially raise a flag and get that user punished too, even though they did nothing wrong.
Or perhaps, once hackers eventually figure out how to clone these certificates, or even crack the encrypted information, if a pirate uses a cloned certificate/ticket online at the same time as someone else uses a second hand game card with the same certificate/encrypted info, Nintendo's online systems will shut both of them down, since they're sending duplicate information. So whoever bought that used game card would be completely blind-sided by a situation they were completely unaware of.
This wouldn't have a huge immediate impact, since it would only affect a few used copies at first. Over time, however, this could have a chilling effect on buying game cards used. People will further opt to either only buy new or digital at higher prices- exactly what publishers like Nintendo want. However, this may also have the side effect of people buying less games overall, due to not having the money to afford all new copies, and being afraid of losing online access if they happen to "lose the lottery" with a used game card that has a history of having been used by an offender.
So all in all, it's not the physical game card itself, but rather it's associated certificate and encrypted data that CAN be registered by Nintendo's online system as having been associated with an offending user's wrongdoing, and COULD potentially get a second hand game card owner in trouble unwittingly. Hopefully this clarifies upon the situation behind the update in this article. It could be different on a case by case basis, not sure yet. Also need more solid proof on the matter beyond mere "warnings."
This is great! Pirates stuck big time!
they can do the same thing with CDs and DVDs as well. they used to do it with some games back in the 90s.
wow they finally changed the title.
people are still overreacting in the comments, this was debunked as clickbait.
SECOND-HAND CARDS WON'T GET BANNED, ONLY PEOPLE PLAYING COPIES OF THEM, NOT THE ORIGINAL CARD ITSELF.
Nintendo knows whether you have the original card or a rom dump.
The article should make clear in its title the whole fuss is about Switch games. 3DS uses game cards as well, so that’s misleading.
@PlywoodStick
So, in other word, if my second handed Switch games are from Honest peoples (Used originally, no hacking), my used Switch games will NOT Banned, right ?
@Anti-Matter Yep, no problems!
Good. I remember when DS game piracy got really out of hand, and I don't want to see something like that happen again. Nip this nonsense in the bud.
@PlywoodStick @nitroBW
Phew....
I'm relieved to hear.
Btw, that's mean No More R4 Cartridge or whatever it called (CFW, Jail Break, etc) in the market.
Most people that bother to dump carts are also collectors. They usually don't resell carts they have dumped, because they want them for their collection. And, they are less likely to sell banned items because they don't want banned items floating around the market.
People seem to be thinking the piracy scene is fueled by broke people who will do whatever they can to get around paying? People like that are are downloading games; they don't bother buying carts, dumping them and reselling them.
Well if they really know the exact copy the rom came from, its gonna be an infinitesimally small number of carts that would cause a ban. Although if that means your Switch itself is forever banned from online use, that would reeeeeally suck.
Bear in mind, we dont officially know that this has actually happened to anyone yet erroneously.
@Anti-Matter Something like an R4 is highly improbable, unless when used in combination with a custom firmware which disables cartridge checks.
Every cartridge has unique keys.
Piracy is already possible though, through other means than flashcards of course.
Team eXecutor has been working hard to get piracy out there. CFW in general is of course done best by well-known Nintendo hackers, like SciresM, Nährwert and others.
@nitroBW It is known that each Switch game card's signed certificate and encrypted information is detectable as being legitimate by Nintendo's online system, and can be distinguished as separate from illegitimate copies. I would say there's a more pertinent question. "Is it possible that someone who happens to buy and go online with a used game card, of which it's certificate and encrypted info is registered by Nintendo's online system as having been previously associated with illicit distributed copies/pirating, or used by a cheater, suffer repercussions for illicit acts they had no part of?"
@McGruber If you think the switch is a half-assed machine, why did you buy one?
Even that is just a comment from some people and has not seen something widespread; Could be considered something "alarm" if it turns out to be very true for "all" games, but as mentioned that only games that have been "dumped", and many people with used games have not reported that error code. Well, it's only a "fake out", oh well.
@PlywoodStick exactly. Based on what they did so far (in the past 3 decades) I wouldn't expect them to do anything. But Nintendo changed a lot with the Switch.
I'm interested in how this will end.
@nitroBW
I have a question for you.
I am planning to buy Japanese 3DS machine this year.
Before i buy, i have to make sure my Japanese 3DS machine is Free from Hacking and CFW.
But the problem is.... in my hometown Surabaya, there are a lot Japanese New 3DS LL & New 2DS LL sold (Yay... Japanese machine ! ) with CFW inside (NOOOOO..... I Don't want hacked machine ! ).
I had asked the most reliable shop owner who knew better about CFW, he said the CFW (Permanent CFW) from 3DS machine could be removed by long process and the hacked machine could be Reverted back to Original again.
I was not really sure it could be Reverted back to Original again since i realized the machine has Ever hacked.
Do you think he said the truth ?
@nitroBW Also, to provide some extra context:
https://nintendosoup.com/nintendo-has-started-banning-switch-game-cards-to-block-piracy/
This is what's being reported elsewhere, which reaches further than this NL article: "However, it appears that the ban does more than just banning the pirate’s Switch console. If the banned Game Card is used on another Nintendo Switch, the other system will be banned when it goes online, and so on."
The way this situation is being explained throughout much of the media is VERY simplified, but I think the highlighted section in the above passage is the crux of the matter at hand. Is this true? According to SciresM and the hacking/homebrew community, the answer is "potentially, yes." Is there any primary source who can disprove that? (And will actually go public about it, Nintendo is notoriously tight-lipped, after all.)
It can be reverted. When hacking a console you begin by backing up the OS, if you held onto that backup and restored it, you would technically be left with a pure and innocent console.
The thing is, Nintendo might've already put that 3DS on its lists if it has been online even once, which it probably has. So even after restoring and resetting everything, it could still get banned in a banwave. Could. The last few banwaves didn't really have any patterns, it randomly banned consoles and we still can't find out on which basis they did. Even people who only installed the CFW and didn't do anything else reported some bans. Some people who only used homebrew without actually hacking reported a few bans as well, but it is generally thought of being a false claim, since there has never been any proof for that.
3DS CFW does have some advantages outside of piracy, like custom themes and stuff, but if your stance is a clear no, I would recommend getting one online. You can always check if a console has CFW by holding Start before/while starting the console, it should show a CFW menu if if was hacked (and not restored).
Not impossible to know. Bring your Switch in with you - ask to use Gamestop or whomever's wifi (if you're buying off Craigslist meet at Starbucks) and test the game right there in the store. Have done it with controllers.
As long as you buy cartridge legally pre-owned or brand new, you should be okay. I don't think I knew anyone who could dump Switch roms let alone knew an emulator that could run Switch games at full speed yet. Heck I don't think any emulator from the N64 onwards are able to run game at full speed yet so no worries. I don't believe there are banned games in the market but there fakes games in the market though so just be aware of that and buy legally.
@PlywoodStick If it is the original card, I highly doubt that the console will get banned. If it's the copy, there is a very high chance. Game sharing isn't a new concept.
IMO they should ban the copies, maybe even the copy users, but not the original. There is no actual proof for Nintendo doing either, banning them too or not
@nitroBW That makes sense. As much as people are blowing up at Nintendo Life for this article, at least they did not go as far as to immediately write that non-offending consoles could be banned in certain cases, if it's not true. It's already too late though, other media sites have started reporting that (regardless of evidence/lack thereof) and paranoia is spreading like wildfire.
@nitroBW
Ow, i see.
Looks like i have to order the Genuine 3DS without hacking / CFW.
Thanks for the answer.
That's good I buy all my games new I don't see the point if u buy the game used u might not get the gold coins
Moral to the story: Don't buy used Switch games...
...sorry dudes that depend on reselling their games to buy new ones. Better find a 2nd job like Sony told potential PS3 users.
Good.
@Anti-Matter Yes, the X360 Jasper board revision mostly fixed the RROD, or at least greatly reduced the odds, but it wasn't until Trinity (Slim) that they finally fixed it for good.
always count on nintendolife for hyped up non-issue non-sense
So does this mean the ROMs are also receiving a ban because they have the same certificate? So Nintendo are just banning every ROM from accessing online? That makes sense, obviously. Nintendo can fix the pre-owned cartridge jeopardy by allowing you to swap it for one that hasn't got a banned certificate for free. Perhaps you'd have to provide proof you've purchased it from somewhere other than a retailer brand new, just to stop said ROM dumpers from replacing their dodgy cartridges.
Resellers should be able to 'certify' nintendo cartridges. They already 'should' be checking that they work. They just have to add an online check.
Hold on, it's too soon to freak out about this. Please see Spawn Wave's video on the matter (Youtube). Nintendo is only banning online features for the DIGITAL COPIES (backups) of cartridge games. John from Spawn Wave did some additional investigation, and found reports to say that returning to using the game cards on their own and NOT the digital backup restored online functionality for the title. So you cannot run your backups online, but the cartridges themselves and their retail value are not affected or diminished in any way.
Thanks for the updated title and update, much better now.
I'd go back and update my previous post but I can't find it.
From what it sounds like (if I am understanding this correctly) Nintendo is blocking ROM dumped game certificates posted online from accessing online functions for that game cart (or leaked ROM) alone. So I could see this as a second hand market issue of someone leaking a ROM and then selling the cart online for a high price. This would stink for a buyer of say Splatoon 2, but wouldn't be all bad for Mario Odyssey or maybe Mario Kart 8 Deluxe depending on if online multiplayer was even wanted. I could see this as a big problem if the buyer of the secondhand game then was banned from all online activity aside from being out this functionality on a game he/she just bought.
The only other downside and real eventual possibility I can see for Nintendo banning using this method would be when hackers start to use some kind of random certificate generator for downloaded ROMS to guess and try working certificates from carts they didn't have access to. They could even test a probable certificate through a computer app connected to Nintendo's servers before writing the data to the Switch's MicroSD card. So let's say you buy Super Smash Bros Ultimate new at the store and get this error at home because someone guessed your cart certificate and used it thus banning you when your cart had never been used for dumping and leaking the ROM in the first place.
Classic Nu-NintendoLife.
This thread appears to confirm that ONLY BACKUP COPIES are affected, and that the only restriction is online services:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/psa-im-bannanas-by-playing-online-using-xecuter-os-sx.508046/#post-8069352
There is currently no evidence that any console, user account, or game cart has been banned.
Nintendo is just defending itself. They could be banning the account directly and they don't. If you buy a pre-owned game that was banned, just return it and buy a new one.
Inconvenient, but you can thank pirates for that. This article makes it sound like they're barely responsible...
This feels like punishing players just for taking a chance on second hand carts. Kind of an overreaction.
Good job Nintendo.
@Alikan
its not only about the second hand cart.
carts have numbers, like blu ray discs.
the dump on internet will be blocked, once there are more then one similar serial number tries to login the nintendo network.
the change you will buy a second hand cart wich been messed with is pretty low. i dont see alot of people doing this.
but just in case, test it out before buying its not that complicated, although the first buyer can use the dunp afterwards.
i rather buy them new and sealed.
i dont even buy games from gamesshops where the seal has been broken. the gameshops hate me sometimes for this, cause they cant sell me any returned game.
but i dont care, i dont buy second hand even when the gameshop says its new. seal broken is second hand period.
This website is going to the dogs isn't it?
@Godzil How precisely will a buyer find out if the cart has been banned?
Ok.., if my memory doesn't fail me, I remember that this note were labeled as a "News", now is a "Rumour"?, ok, well, better I save my comment...
So basically like 4 games 🤔😅
2018, where a grain of salt is never enough.
Once again the internet is doing what it does best... Creating a controversy before it actually exists.
First, this is a rumor, so it's not even confirmed by anybody reputable. Second, there are a ton of assumptions being made about exactly how Nintendo will identify pirated copies and how they will implement restrictions on those copies. For all we know, they're only looking for carts that have been made available online and downloaded thousands of times. They also could have a policy in place ready to replace games of buyers when they inadvertantly end up with a compromised copy.
How about we wait until people actually start complaining (and not just two people, like with the bent switch crap) before starting a riot?
As a future SX Pro user I will just be very carefull. Clearly some people have ignored some very obvious warnings. Probably just to test things out and report on them. The outcome will only help the community to work around these types of 'system stability'.
@Anti-Matter The only way your game would be locked is if your copy ever got owned by an hacker capable of pirating it to create illegal digital copies in the first place.
There's only that many people with the skills and hardware and considering it requires an "original" to be purchased in the first place, one has to wonder how many pf them are willing to shelf the money to purchase an original just so that -other- people can download free copies of the game.
It's not a big deal. Just save your receipt until you make sure it works right (which you should be doing anyway), and if it's a banned copy, just take it back to the used game store and explain the problem to get an exchange or refund.
On another note, it's actually legal to dump the carts for your own personal use. Just don't share the ROMs with anybody else, which would then indeed be illegal and give Nintendo a legitimate reason to block your game card.
Most of my 3DS games I purchased preowned, but I've struggled to find any Switch games preowned. The local game store I got most of my 3DS games only has 4 Switch titles. EB games had one (Mario & Rabbids, which I did buy).
When buying online take the time to research WHO you are buying from. If on eBay, look at feedback. Same with Amazon.
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