Super Mario Maker Developers Talk About the Recent Update and Other Potential "Maker" Games

If Nintendo were to make a "Zelda Maker", it would be difficult, indeed. Just implementing the various puzzle events and making sure that connecting events to certain actions doesn't get too complicated will be a big problem. And then there's the problem of less consistency with both enemy movements and attacks, since they follow randomized patterns, making enemies much less of an integral part, but almost entirely an obstacle. And let's not forget that Zelda games are full-on adventures - sharing single dungeons would by far not be enough, and sharing whole worlds would be complete overkill.
Despite thinking it would be cool to make my own Zelda world, I don't think that will ever be a thing. The intricacies of using tools you found for puzzles further down the line would be impossible to uphold, and without that, it wouldn't have much of a Zelda feel to it at all.

Yoshi's Island Maker, make it happen.

Thing is, part of the beauty of Mario Maker is that a level is something you can enjoy in (usually) under three minutes - it's instantly gratifying and you can see immediately what the creator is trying to achieve with the level.

The average 2D Zelda dungeon would take at least 30 minutes to play through and it is only something you would appreciate when seeing the whole picture. In SMM, you can see and appreciate the level immediately and then choose to skip it if you want. Zelda dungeons would take a very long time to properly create and a long time to play as well.

And no, creating shorter Zelda dungeons wouldn't be same. If you can play through a dungeon in under thirty minutes, then it isn't really a Zelda dungeon, is it? Proper dungeons take much longer to play.

I think Nintendo knows that a Zelda Maker wouldn't be satisfying to play, and I hope they avoid bending to fan requests but honestly, a Zelda Maker wouldn't work and would cheapen the whole concept of a Zelda dungeon.

...Metroid Maker? Nah, it'd be the same problem of having a wider world than a single stage, and Zelda could at least get away with individual dungeons. Yoshi's Island Maker, as said, could work. Maybe a Kirby maker, even with different games' gimmicks (most prominently, Canvas Curse).

Zelda Maker would obviously never work. It's just the type of game and people shouldn't continue to blindly suggest this without giving it any thought. Be happy with Super Mario Maker, if you're into platformers.
A Mario Kart Maker, on the other hand, would be doable. The developers could give us certain themes and assets we could play around with to make some tracks to race on.

@Fazermint : I'd rather that they give us the original SNES game via VC before going all out on a Yoshi's Island Maker.

F ZERO MAKER. Just think Ninento. You would have a brilliant slogan: "You Want a new F Zero? Make one yourself!"
Been able to make tracks. Customize ships. Even build them from scratch, all with the stylus. It would ve AMAZING. Please make it happen Nintendo!

Kid Icarus Maker could work since the original NES and GB games feature "short" levels. However, due to the series not being as popular as Nintendo's other franchises, I doubt it would even become a reality.

Sticking to the idea that the plattformer genre seem to be the best fit for a "maker-game", the second most natural choice after Super Mario would be Donkey Kong. Then lets bring Rare and Retro together for a Donkey Kong Country Maker =)

@Konda Yup, DKC Maker is all I want. Oh and maybe a DKC 3D world would be pretty swell.

Almost anything can be powered up by being “makered”.

Zelda maker would of course not include the dungeons themselves or the core story. But imagine if each zelda game has you laying out your tiny little piece of land, somewhere insignificant in the game. 1 million users later when you stitch all of those together and you’ll have a free world to wander around in.

Then go explore and visit each others patches. Very possible.

@Marshi F-Zero maker, absolutely.

Personally though, I'd like to see the Mario Maker concept taken further with real DLC along the lines of adding physics/animations from other characters. Admittedly it breaks many Mario mechanics and takes a lot of extra sprites and models, but I'd like to play as Samus complete with blaster and charge my through original Mario Bros levels, as Link, slashing through and as Captain Falcon.. doing his thing too. Punching?

Anyway, someone made an indie game very much along those lines...

Miyamoto said he was going to make a dungeon-maker instead of the Zelda games, so it could be possible.

@TimoteiWest I actually thought of DLC of crossover game themes. Imagine having whole worlds of other games, not just a reskin of Mario. The power-ups will give them new abilities from their games, like a sword power-up and a bow power-up. The themes would change, like the overworld will become Hyrule Field and gain it's music. The underground will become a cave, the ghost house will become a regular dungeon, the water theme will become the Zora's Domain, the airships will become a sky temple, and the castle will become Ganon's castle. The enemies will change, like Piranha Plants becoming Deku Babas, Bowser becoming Ganon, ect.

@TimoteiWest Well I think the sky is the limit with games like this. Id love to see plenty of dlc and would happily pay for new content (thats content Nintendo, no skins or outfits rubbish) but would also love to see the "Maker" brand become just that, a franchise that takes a well loved series andalways you to make your own content. As long as Nintendo keeps it fun and easy to do im game for anything.

I'd love to create my own pikmin challenges but I can't see that happening anytime soon.......

For one, I'm completely satisfied with Super Mario Maker. I've always loved 'build your own levels' games-heck, I purchased a ps3 and little big planet the day after I played it.

That said-I think a Zelda maker could work if you look at jut single dungeons. It could switch between Zelda1/LttP/LbW styles. As mentioned above, though, each level would take longer to build/play.

I thought the next logical step after SMM was....Kirby Maker! I do think we'll get some other game styles as dlc though. And I can't wait!!

I do really love the ideas of donkey kong country maker, yoshi's island maker, f-zero maker (though I'd be sooo happy just to get the Japan 64dd release on the vc...actually all the dd games!!), and even a Mario kart maker! Keep thinking guys!

A Zelda maker could be done if it were a dungeon maker for the first game on the NES. These were different layouts of rectangular rooms joined together. The problem with this is that it doesn't offer that much flexibility in design, so wouldn't be ideal.

That's the brilliance of Mario maker. The diversity of what's available allows for many possibilities.

@erv But sadly, 90% of that expansive, stiched-together world would just be a bunch of course elements and monsters randomly piled on top of one another, and 5% would guarantee instant death if the player actually touched the controller.

As much as I like the idea of an infinite, organic, user-created utopia springing forth from under Link's feet, I don't think reality would match up. I think I'm happier leaving the environs of my adventures up to professionals in this case.

"Tezuka: We see user requests come from a variety of different sources. Unfortunately, a lot of those ideas would take a lot of resources or time to implement."

Translation: we could make it better, as everyone has pointed out, but a lot of these ideas would require money, and as you know from a few of the recent releases, we just like to make games just good enough, we see no reason to improve it further.

This really does upset me, Nintendo is still stuck in a prior world mentality.

@Marshi this... give this man or woman a trophy!

The only other game series that could work just as well as Mario Maker would be a Kirby Maker.

• Most games are 2D platformers
• Enemies/Bosses that appear throughout the entire series
• Items that appear throughout the entire series
• Level elements, such as Star Blocks, that appear throughout the entire series
• A simple objective throughout the games: Reach the goal, and/or beat the boss.
• Platforms typically have a block-like pattern, just like the Mario series.
• Powerups that appear throughout most of the series
• Game mechanics, by nature, make it easier to play and beat compared to the Mario series. Which would be especially appealing for children to make/Play Kirby levels
• Kirby is popular...but more-so in Japan.

Overall, if Nintendo was going to make another Maker game, Kirby Maker would be their best bet.

Oh, and similar mechanics throughout the series too. Such as flying/sliding/Inhaling/spitting/etc

@Danrenfroe2016

Make games just good enough? I'm not use what you're talking about. Nintendo games, as a whole, are among the very highest rated. If you think they are making games that are just good enough, I'd hate to see your thoughts on the industry as a whole.

Also the prior world mentality....? I don't get it...you mean by releasing AAA games and giving out free (and paid) updates? Again, I highly disagree with you.

If they did a Zelda maker, it would have to be something more like Minecraft with a Zelda theme.

I'd like to see a Mario 3d World maker, MK8 or F Zero maker or a DK maker.....

" "Wow, a Zelda Maker or something like that would be a great idea!" But, in thinking about it, it didn't seem like something that would be quite as easy to make or to play." "

Remember when Nintendo was willing to do stuff even though it was hard?

(Sorry, I'm in a pretty snarky mood today.)

Yeah, Zelda Maker would be too complex. Give us Xenoblade Maker!!!

Checkpoints and dual power ups are fantastic to have, buy they should have been in the game at launch.

As for other maker games, a Zelda maker would be awesome, but I can't think how they could get it to work. It would be a lot more complex to make than Mario, and would take a lot more work for a user to design a level.

Nah, I definitely agree that Zelda Maker would just not work. Primarily, it's too hard to implement and design as a functioning game, but also too difficult for the majority of people to easily make worlds, or at least ones that'd be fun to play.

I think a general dungeon maker would be very cool, but to limit it to the scope of Zelda gameplay would not be a good idea. Mario works because of its simplicity, it makes levels easy to make and to play, and really lets the creativity shine because of that. They could try it with another platformer like Kirby but really I think Nintendo did a great job with SMM and there's no real reason to make another platformer creator when you already have one that stars the most popular platformer ever.

I think most other Nintendo IP are either too complex to make a 'Maker' style game from (like Zelda or Metroid) or they just wouldn't have the selling power (sorry but 'Kid Icarus Maker' and even 'Kirby Maker' just aren't things people who don't frequent Nintendo related news sites are going to get excited about).

Ideally I'd love to see them do something new, their own LittleBigPlanet maybe (although Media Molecule are already taking that concept to the next level with Dreams). Failing that a 'NES Maker' could work. Where you smosh everything together to make short NES Remix style challenges.

@mattesdude

Nintendo has recently left a bad taste in my mouth with several of the AAA games recently.

Specifically:

Mario Kart 8. Great Game... But No battle Arenas... Somewhat weak online.

SMM: great game... But... Online sucks in current form, and bad decisions on course selection interface.

StarFox: no SNES starfox on virtual console, new start fox graphics issues...

Online capabilities: Miiverse is becoming a joke. There is still no easy way to share from the Wii U to Facebook or Twitter.

It's almost like Nintendo does so well at certain things... And then is totally inept at the same time. My comments are out of frustration...

It's kind of Ford made a new Mustang GT very fast, good looking and then said, but no steering this go around.

And don't get me started about games they didn't do because Miyamoto is bored of it "and no new ideas"

So many franchises left out because of this...

I'm so frustrated...

Hmm, the only other franchise I can see would make for an intriguing "maker" game is a Megaman Maker. Buuuttt, that's up to Capcom.

@Danrenfroe2016

Mario Kart has a weak online offering?

@Turbo857 not the gameplay... But lack of communication between players, I mean they don't even have text-based communication besides for the little pre made deals

Zelda Maker? Forget all that nonsense. I love Zelda as much as the next guy, but that's just a horrible idea.

Now, if we're talking a DKC Maker, that's a different story.

@Danrenfroe2016

With your friends you can chat between races. But I think it'd be cool to talk to friends during races. With random opponents I could understand why chat shouldn't be an option.

Come to think of it: does any online racer feature voice chat during races?

8 Bit maker. With the likes of Kirby, kid Icarus and maybe even Megaman. Heck why not Mario 2 (Mario USA) and sonic too.
Adding together the more niche or less popular characters would overcome their lesser appeal than what Mario has.

It would work a lot like Mario Maker in that each character's game would be a theme. So you could have Kirby enemies in a Mega Man game or keep them all purely regimented of that suits better.
Be ice to play as Mega Man in a Kirby level and just blast away all those cute enemies.

Zelda Maker doesn't seem to me as complicated as the Mario Maker devs are saying. You'd be restricted to making dungeon levels, Skins would be the original, A Link to the Past and A Link Between Worlds, you could put together puzzle elements with a 'condition' menu a la Warioware DIY...

@Fazermint would it work to have Yoshi's Island as a graphic style on Mario Maker? And I would love to see a DKC maker. Bounce between DKC, dkc2 and dkcr skins, music and what not. Also, I want to creat my own 5-6 level worlds.

@Mogster totally on same page with you. everybody says zelda maker.. i say no. mario is a platformer. you get instant jumps and hurdles to satisfy that part of the gamer. zelda is a puzzle adventure. puzzles have to be designed by teams and implemented over months of thought and brainstorming by design geniuses. if we got the world to design puzzles, boy they would either be trolling or horribly boring. compared to a complicated nintendo deisgner.

Slopes are possible to implement. Have a tile with a half filled box with degree of slope, then line those up with other slope tiles. Underneath those would be the full land tile. Seems easy to me.

Zelda Maker is quite possible and has the potential to offer great fun. The problem is in the community and the immediate fun from gameplay. Even in lousy levels it's fun to just spend some time jumping around in Super Mario games. You can always improve or sharpen your skills even on stages that aren't particularly good.

Zelda's gameplay mechanics aren't quite as immediately rewarding.

The way I look at it, though? That's just a new game development requirement. Find the joy in playing Link and make sure players can get at it in poorly designed stages.

Besides, you can offset this a bit by enticing the greater public to buy the game with not just the infinite possibilities but a pre-made adventure. I'm sure many Mario Maker owners are just playing and have only tinkered a short time with the level creation. Just shift the balance towards those players a bit more in marketing to help boost sales.

Anyway, that's to help with the clear differences people have brought up. The technical side of building needs to be fun as well. I think that's much easier than some make it out to be.

I feel like I wrote this before, but you could choose the load out Link must have to complete your "Level" and what the rewards will be (with limits). The game could even suggest possibilities as a challenge to the designer. What builds up is a database of dungeons that can be placed into a larger adventure for players.

That's just a start, but I'm just trying to demonstrate that it's not only possible but has the advantage of motivating some designers to try different things.

If it were up to me, it'd be a brand new iteration of 2D Zelda at the same time as covering all the familiar 2D Zelda bases. The focus would be on inventing a super-fun player experience in that perspective at first...

@Mogster Very few Mario stages I enjoy take 3 minutes. Not sure what you've been playing. Auto-levels?

I don't actually see the Zelda dungeons particularly more time-consuming to build. While rewarding puzzles will take more time to consider, you aren't concerned with every little jump and fall scenario. Just like Mario the more complex and interesting you want to make it the more time it will take. If you want to create Level 1 in The Legend of Zelda, it would take about as much time as creating a simple stage in Mario. Zelda takes longer clearing rooms, etc. than running through the content. You get the idea.

Playing them does take longer, but the notion of sizing up a level and skipping it quickly doesn't have to be different in Zelda. If there are 50 or so dungeons designed by people that take the same necessary items and give the same reward as described in my post above, you could just skip one and try another.

You are right that the average Zelda level is going to take longer to finish, but that's not the whole story. Again, I addressed this above.

The idea is not so easily dismissed for me, anyway.

One update that would have been welcome would have been a way to upvote and downvote levels. When we play it here during 100 Mario Challenge, I'd say that we skip about half the levels we come across. The "everything plus the kitchen sink" approach does not work; just because you have a few dozen items doesn't mean you have to use them all in the same level... 100 times. And the automatic levels were fun the first time we saw them, but now they are nothing more than obnoxious. These horribly designed levels take most of the fun out of playing it. It is still a treat to come across the really cleverly designed levels though, including some of the puzzle levels. Still, there needs to be a way to weed out the worst so the rest of us don't have to skip them all the time.

@Danrenfroe2016

I think I disagree almost with all you said. But that can be a conversation for another day.

And that's cool, we all get our own opinions. happy gaming!

I'd like some DLC packs that give you stuff from Kirby's Adventure, Metroid, Mega Man, Sonic, etc. I'd actually like to use some of those sprites and enemies, and even have Mario fight a a few Robot Masters! Lol! Those darned disappearing blocks would be a nice twist!

You couldn't make it 100% faithful to all Zelda games, but a Zelda dungeon maker sounds perfectly doable. Building on a foundation of the original Zelda, I can see a game where players can set a certain amount rooms per dungeon, bomb-able walls, hidden stairs, amount of hearts per dungeon, what items you start with, which ones you have to find, which bosses you fight, etc...
Granted Zelda games are too drastically different to use the same approach that Super Mario Maker had, but if you simply made different graphic style options, reverse-engineered some 8-bit versions of more modern enemies/bosses/weapons, and a few of Link's skills not found in the NES classic... then yeah, I can totally see it being feasible.
There would be some grumbling among fans, but then again, I've never seen anything that has universal appeal to all Zelda fans. There will always be malcontents, don't let that stand in the way of making an otherwise highly successful game.