Just recently we shared some translated quotes from a 4Gamer interview with Nintendo President Satoru Iwata, in which he talked about his programming days and his role in getting Super Smash Bros. Melee to market. That same thread on NeoGaf has been adding more translations, and the latest excerpts certainly catch the eye.
In a section with the focus on hardware development, Satoru Iwata explains how he became frustrated at being unable to apply a Sleep feature to the Game Boy Advance SP, despite its clamshell design. Emphasizing how that informed the inclusion of that capability of the DS, Iwata-san goes on to highlight that similar restrictions have affected the Wii U but that, again, missed opportunities are being considered for Nintendo's next generation of hardware.
By the way, speaking of usability, the Nintendo DS was the first portable game system to have a sleep function, but that feature was the result out of the frustration of not being able to implement it with the GameBoy Advance SP.
...The GBA SP was also a clam-shell design, so I pretty adamantly demanded of the hardware team that it went into sleep mode when it was closed. 'This feature is absolutely essential!' I said. However, at that time, they told me that as it would take re-working the chip so it could be turned on and off it would take a year to do it, so I had to reluctantly withdraw my request. Nevertheless, I did tell them that they had to make sure the next system they designed would be able to go into sleep mode.
...I was really upset by that at the time. But that feeling of 'We must do it next time!' connected directly to implementing that feature into the DS.
...Right after the Wii U launched, when you were kind enough to give us quite a lot of feedback, Mr. Kawakami, I had a similar feeling of frustration to the GBA SP situation then. On various points, I thought 'We have to do that next time!
...But, because of that, because of that frustration, not only do we want it to connect with features next time, we are actually working to fix it for next time.
There's a sense that Nintendo is becoming increasingly less afraid to mention the inevitable next step in its hardware cycle; senior figures have made subtle noises about the fact it's planning for the future. As we've said in the past, Nintendo is practically always researching and developing new hardware, but there are certainly interesting nods and winks coming from the company's senior executives.
With the New Nintendo 3DS arriving in the West in 2015 and the Wii U boasting an exciting line-up, Nintendo's clearly still committed to its current hardware in the coming year. It's fun to wonder what's next, however.
What do you make of Iwata-san's comments, and what features missing from the Wii U would you hope to see in future hardware?
Image credit: 4Gamer
[source neogaf.com]
Comments 220
Would love an ethernet port
Well, of course Nintendo are working on whatever comes after the WiiU, console development takes years, they probably started on it the day WiiU was released (Or maybe they took a day off to celebrate )
A for what i'd like next: a processor more similar in power and architecture to what the other guys are using, to encourage more games being ported, Nintendo's first-party games are great, but the WiiU is proving that those games alone aren't enough...
And maybe a more down-to-Earth controller design, it's the game that sell consoles, not a fancy controller that few games use anywhere near to its full potential...
I'm thinking one of these things might be referring to the N64/GCN promises for VC made in 2012 which now, 2 years later still don't exist.
Well this is confirmation, they aren't building hype for nothing, are they trying to get back in the game if you know what I mean? The N64 was unique yet a bigger player, it sounds as though they want to achieve that level of success. I hope they do as well, cause if I get a Wii U it'll be later after I upgrade my PC and get a One. If their next console had a decent level of 3rd party support and Nintendo's 1st party IPs, that would be a must have. I shouldn't get my hopes up though. Good luck Iwata san, as well as the rest of the team.
I bet he was thinking of QoL intergrqtion.
A bigger GamePad battery
@Inkling pretty sure he is pointing at something more complicated than just a bigger battery.
@MysticX Indeed, something as confortable and durable as the Gamecube controller or even like the Wii U Pro Controller would be nice. They've done the screen on controller thing, now people really want a proper, gimmickless controller...
@shaneoh Seriously. Pathetic that Nintendo still has built an ethernet port into a console yet.
@Inkling I'm hoping for having Gamepad chargers being sold through retailers, like GAME, here in the U.K...
@Inkling
They already have that:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Game-High-Capacity-Battery/dp/B00EZPU0E2
I will continue to purchase Nintendo products. Retro or past Nintendo products the current Wii U and 3ds and 2ds devices. Nintendo will always be the main gaming company in my home and life. Any other company past and present is simply casual gaming. Nintendo Q O L
@Grumblevolcano I remember the promise of N64 games on VC, but to my knowledge, Nintendo has adamantly avoided saying "yes" or "no" when people asked if we'd ever see GameCube VC games.
As much as I love the gamepad, I don't know if it should be on the next console. The next controller would be a great cross between the Wii U Pro Controller and the GameCube controller, analogue shoulder buttons with ZL & ZR. Also wouldn't mind so much if they moved away from the 'Wii' brand altogether.
I'd love for Nintendo to raise their specs a bit, but something tells me it's more than just the specs of their consoles that are keeping 3rd parties from joining.
I am afraid they will simply dump the Wii U after the next wave of first party games is released next year. Nintendo has this habit, they dumped the Wii while PS3 and 360 still get major game releases. They did the same with GC too.
Missing from the Wii U are the Ethernet port, a media player, a huge hard drive disk, blue ray support, more VC games (N64, GC, SEGA platforms), a proper OS (still it is very slowwwww). But the biggest problem is the lack of games. Still waiting for Xenoblade.
In the end of the day that I would definitely want for the next home system is the ability to transfer all my digital games, including my huge collection of VC games (when I buy VC instead of Wii U software something is clearly wrong with the system). Nintendo seems to offer BC with only the immediate previous generation but I would like to play all my VC collection in the new system, even those only playable on Wii mode.
The only thing that is an absolute must to me is drop the Wii name as a prefix.
I'd like game suspension in the next Nintendo console. Where I could pause Bayonetta2, put the system to sleep, then wake it up at a later time and resume right where I left off.
Complete console/handheld integration would be amazing too. A console where I could just detach a part of it and use it like a 3DS, without the need for an internet connection.
I have a feeling they'll start revealing the next console between 2016-2017, with the intention of releasing it alongside WiiU and not technically meant to replace it.
I would like it if the next home console has the puzzle swap like the 3ds has got
@candy94 Why?
This is so f'n annoying because all that's really likely to happen is he'll have them implement the features they missed this gen on Wii U that the other consoles already have but more than likely once again not implement any of the new features the next-gen consoles from their competitors will have by that time. Stuff that probably the majority of the console owners will actually want. It's been like this since the N64, when Nintendo skipped CDs (although I at least I can actually appreciate why it skipped CDs back then), and it's been getting worse with each new console, which has lacked more and more features the competition has with each new generation.
Nintendo can clearly see new innovations before anyone else, some of which turn out to be genuinely great ideas (a few not so much), but it seems blind to all the standard and imo obvious stuff that's going to be commonplace on future hardware, so it's new consoles always seem to be lacking in a few significant ways relative to the competition and it's been like that since the N64 onwards.
Basically; Iwata's comment doesn't install any confidence in me that the next Nintendo console won't just suffer the same issues as the last few Nintendo consoles.
To answer the question however...
The things I'd like to see in Wii U, this generation, never mind in the next hardware, are; basic CD/DVD/MP3/etc playback, a better range and better battery life on the controller (available in an updated model but one that doesn't basically split/segment the user base by adding new features some users won't have), a proper single unified account system, cross play where you can purchase the likes of the Virtual Console titles and play them on both the 3DS and Wii U as and when you choose, cheaper Virtual Console prices across the board, indeed a PROPER full implementation and realisation of the Virtual Console that actually gives us access to as much as possible the full library of games across ALL of Nintendo's past systems from the NES all the way up to the Wii (and that includes all the handheld systems and games too). All that stuff could still be implemented now as far as I'm concerned.
Stuff I'd like to see on the next Nintendo console (along with all the stuff above), that can't realistically be implemented on Wii U at this point and which is in some cases still only to bring it up to current-gen standards but also to meet next-gen requirements and features, as well as offer some unique capabilities of its own is; graphical prowess that matches the competition, analog on one set of the triggers on the controller (just so it matches the controllers on the other consoles), proper fully implemented and supported voice chat, a decent amount of inbuilt storage (so you can actually download and store more than a couple of full size games), the ability to finally use 4 GamePad style controllers at once (for some amazing local multi-player gaming), advanced voice control options for navigating the UI and menus etc (just because I think it's something everyone is going to have going forward and if done well it could be really useful)... Also; I don't know exactly what form Nintendo's new consoles should take, whether it be a typical home console or maybe some kind of portable hybrid or whatever but I def think Nintendo needs to be seriously looking into utilising Virtual Reality in one way or another, even if it's just a headset peripheral, because I believe without doubt that VR is the next big paradigm shift in video gaming and home entertainment and if Nintendo doesn't embrace it in some way then I expect everything else it does might be kinda pointless because I think not including VR functionality in some form would end up being just as detrimental as lacking basic CD/DVD functionality was in the N64 and GC eras imo (if not a whole order of magnitude more so).
I genuinely believe that if Nintendo does all that stuff above and launches its next console at a decent price and with say a proper new cutting edge and mind blowing Super Mario platformer title (A new Mario platformer just because it's still Nintendo's flagship as far as I'm concerned), as well as a couple of other cutting edge games, that it will be hugely successful and also attract all the third parties back into its camp too.
PS. Regardless of what Nintendo chooses to put in its new console, I really don't want to see any "next-gen" hardware from Nintendo for at least a few years anyway. Any sooner would just be an insult and start positioning it in "Sega" style territory imo; where Sega just released far too many new consoles far too soon after each other, dropping basically brand new hardware far too soon after release and leaving a lot of customers totally unsatisfied and frustrated, angry even, and it pretty much signed its own death warrant by destroying any future trust or loyalty in the brand (certainly when it came to console hardware).
Zelda I think is going to be the WiiU swan song next Xmas, Xenoblade will come out in the summer.
2016 they will announce a new home console and new handheld or that fusion thingy with a release for 2017. That gives WiiU a full normal 5 year life span for a gen.
I don't mind, I will always buy Nintendo, even at launch
with the New 3DS coming early this year to the West, they're probably positioning it to last at least until 2016- the fall of which year is a good time to also release an updated console--- or console/handheld hybrid machine...
Looking at the Wii U, the biggest missed opportuniy is to have the gamepad able to be indipendent. A home console which controller is actually a console by itself and even a tablet, I'm sure that something they considered, but most likely gave up for lack of time/resources, for avoid to compete against their own 3DS or just for keep down the WiiU's price.
All matters that indeed could cease to exist by the time they'll be ready to announce a new console.
It'd be great to know which features he's talking about that the Wuu missed out on.
I know someday there will be a new Nintendo console and handheld. In the mean time, im going to play thousands of hours of the ones I own.
@Scary_Old_Lady because its good
It would be good if it's processing power is much better than it's rival Microsoft and sony
@candy94 But how will you get the puzzle pieces without Streetpass and Play Coins from steps??? I love Streetpass by the way...
@candy94 I say at least equal to, so that people don't immediately write it off as 'Underpowered.' Yes, the Wii U isn't the most powerful, but it isn't a slouch either...
@Donutman Same, I have invested lord knows how many hours on Mario Kart 7 and 8, Smash Bros for Wii U and 3DS and Animal Crossing to name but a few. Mario Kart Wii is my most played game ever, clocking in at over 400 hours, mainly Multiplayer Madness against my Brother...
@Savino They will announce it a year after announcing their next Handheld, just like 3DS and Wii U, for a 207/2018 release, because 5-6 years is the usual timeframe for Nintendo consoles...
I would like to see stronger usb output so you dont have to use two to power anything. A large hard drive 500gb+. If they keep the Wii brand then redesign the wii mote where it has a 3ds slider instead of the d pad with more buttons and upgrade the pro controller with better triggers and joysticks with a camera on it like the ps4. I also want it be able to play every Nintendo made game on it.
@Moon I think that the Gamepad should at least be compatible with the next console, with a Gamecube/Pro Controller style controller being the main controller...
Those of you calling for Big N to implement disc media usage on their next console (CD, DVD, etc...) keep dreaming. Nintendo will NEVER pay the Consortium for usage on their consoles in order to keep costs down. They're even part of all of the Consortium's, but it will never happen.
My wishlist, in order of preference.
1. A proper account system for downloadable games, as opposed to the outdated sytem of tying downloads to hardware.
2. Better range for the Wii U controller. Or better yet, make it a standalone device.
3. Better media integration (either do it or don't do it - not like the current half-baked TVii)
All the other suggestions (e.g. N64, GCN VC games) are nice to haves but seem more tactical decisions - e.g. they may prefer re-releases of N64 games on 3DS (both Zeldas, Star Fox 64 etc.) rather than make or break next-gen design decisions.
@Acarie With cartridge slots for for NES, SNES and N64 games cartridges and the disk drive being able to read Gamecube, Wii and Wii U disks???
I really, really, really hope the next console will be fully compatible with all Wii and Wii U controllers, even if the Wii name is dropped (and at this rate, it will be). One of the things that I've especially loved about the Wii U is the fact that the only new controllers that I've had to buy are the Pro Controllers, and even so, I have enough Classic Controllers to get by, but the fact that the Pro Controllers are wireless, are so comfortable to hold and have such long battery life make them a worthwhile purchase. Of course, if Nintendo make a more responsive Wii Remote-style controller, I'd be more than happy to oblige, but only if it is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I hope that all controllers, past and present, are fully compatible with their next console.
Every Sony/Microsoft console seems to have an arbitrary new controller that looks and functions indistinguishably from the last one to the extent that I don't understand WHY these consoles ever needed a new controller in the first place.
@ Takerkaneanite6 - they could do the street pass by making the game pad portable so you can take it where you want a bit like the 3ds and then connect it via nfc to the console so it can update the console to what you have done on the gamepad. Also I agree with you on the second point you made
If they launched new hardware for Xmas 2015-2016 latest and it authorised Duplication of all previous wii u purchases across to it as long as they remained tied to same NNID account I would buy day one upto £400 easy
More storage more storage more storage.
"Every Sony/Microsoft console seems to have an arbitrary new controller that looks and functions indistinguishably from the last one to the extent that I don't understand WHY these consoles ever needed a new controller in the first place."
It's called improving and tweaking the design by a process of iteration. The current iteration of both the Xbox controllers and the DualShock are orders of magnitude better than the versions a few generations back.
Microsoft and Sony might not be offering brand new control innovations every generation (although in some ways they actually are) but one of the positives of that, which is actually a weakness of Nintendo's approach, is that you can play pretty much every single Xbox and PlayStation console game with that standard controller that comes in the box (1-4 of them), without the need for any additional controller options, and that includes local multi-player games too. 4 Xbox controllers or 4 DualShocks and you are basically sorted on those consoles. Now try that on Wii U... You can't even frikin use 4 GamePads on that system, never mind all the other options and controller configurations that are available.
Personally; I really hope with the next Nintendo console it just has the ability to use up to 4 slightly tweaked GamePads (with one set of analog triggers, better range, improved battery life and maybe a dual stylus/multi-touch screen for example) and optionally additional Wiimotes (+ Nunchucks) for those games that specifically use motion control only, but that you can avoid buying Wiimotes entirely if you don't want to play any motion specific games, and that it is. No need for extra GC controllers, Pro controllers, Classic controllers etc because ideally the standard GamePad really should be designed as the perfect all-round solution for any of the cases where people are choosing those other options currently.
I personally think there's something to be said for Sony's and Microsofts's simple and elegant solutions here.
Eithernet port, highly improved online experience--no need to explain what that means, we all know, 4k 60fps, I'd love the gamepad to be an add on but not required--off screen play is the best thing about it so far, massive internal solid state HDD, take the current pro controller and tweek it to match what current guys are doing--i have no idea how a solid racing game could be played without pressure senstive triggers, cross play with handheld--or have the opinional gamepad be the new handheld where u can take ur game with u--if vita/ps4 figured it out then I'm sure Nintendo could. Think that's it. 4k 60fps would put this console way ahead of their peers and the next nogical step, please don't skimp on this one. The other stuff just gets them on the same page.
Missing from my wii u experience currently is tvii, eshop gifting, vc n64, vc sega, what I want from my next Nintendo console: more power, compatible with game pad, and wii motes Skype app. No region lock a translation app which translates all in game text to your choosen language so a game once released can be played and imported from anywhere. Might try and kickstarter that idea!
Ok so they release a new console in 2017, fine by me, I'll still have a huge backlog of wiiu games to buy and play and they'll likely be super cheap by that point...
@shaneoh @KillScottKill - Just bought a PS3 for my bedroom in part b/c of the ethernet port, and optical out (using my old receiver, had to buy a new one for Wii U last year) and blu ray - was considering Chromecast, Fire Stick or PS TV - and the ability to re-download my games so now I can play in my bedroom occassionally when the kids are in the living room. Never really considered another Wii U for the bedroom even though it does have Netflix, Hulu and Prime, that just wasnt enough.
@ajcismo
"The only thing that is an absolute must to me is drop the Wii name as a prefix."
I wouldn't worry. I think they learned there lesson with that.
A list of things I would like to see in the next Nintendo console, in no particular order:
*backwards compatibility
*support for as many existing controllers as possible
*a proper account system instead of digital content being tied to hardware - this is the one thing that prevents me from buying games on virtual console
*no more region locking
*Do away with optical drives, replace game discs with digital distribution and game cards that use a proprietry flash memory format so that customers can still choose to have their games in physical format if so desired
*I like the idea of finally unifying home and portable consoles to work as one. Like maybe half the computational power be in the portable half and the other half in the home half so that they can work independently and output decent graphics like the 3DS currently does but when they're able to work together the game automatically upscales to much more detail to take advantage of the increased power available. Being able to play the same game on the go or at home could be a big selling point particularly in Japan where portable games are still really popular.
*I just hope NIntendo can find a way to reach out to third parties without letting them walk all over them like Sony and microsoft have. If Nintendo could find a way to bury the hatchet with Namco then anything is possible.
I'm nervous about this, for starters If they release a console in 2017. They are done for, that just the way it is. The regular consumer, not gaming consumer is not going to accept this. This is one of many reasons why Nintendo does NOT get taken serious. Then second, If he's planning on making some stupid gimmicky crap like Wii U & not make anything powerful, they are also done for. Because the Devs are not going to take Nintendo serious. To make matters worse, if you guys think & Nintendo thinks that them making a new console is going to bring back the core gamers & even casuals Ohhh & the devs back. That's not going to happen with Nintendo clapping its hand & commanding them to come back. Nope. What I'm saying is here, they desperately need to make something powerful. Not something gimmicky.
One thing I kind of hope they do, is go back to a cartridges based system. Cartridges are so much better than CDs, DVDs, etc. They can load faster, hold more data, much more durable and everything. It kind of baffles me that people have this illusion that discs are better and that they are still used so much. But I guess discs would be much cheaper to make right now so we will probably be keeping discs for a while.
@Grumblevolcano
Gamecube games were never promised. They said it would be nice but never did say they were coming.
@candy94 You would never be able to swap peices...
@Mus1cLov3r - You could if the controller for the home console you could take it anywhere you would like to and use it like the 3ds console
@Takerkaneanite6 YES!!!! No, I ment as virtual consoles lol
I seriously doubt we'll see anything new hardware wise any time soon. Throwing out a new system is not the answer to their problems, and they know that. So I think they'll ride the Wii U out for another three years and hopefully they've learned some hard lessons through all of this.
What do I want to see happen?
Off the top of my head... Good VC support, a larger hard drive, get rid of region locking, have the same amount of horsepower as the other guys so third parties can put their games on the system (but don't play catch up to the previous generation, top it so it can compete), make anything gimmicky completely optional, drop the Wii brand and have a true account system.
Oh and, they should try to advertise/bundle WITH third parties. And they need to give NoA and NoE more freedom.
I feel like most people have similar wishlists.
@Acarie I know, I was just messing with ya...XD
@candy94 You mean like the Neo Geo X ?
I don't think they should be spending any time talking about the next hardware--at all. They need to focus on fixing the Wii U and repairing as many damaged relationships--with gamers and with developers and publishers--right now or they aren't going to even have a basis to release the next hardware.
The Dreamcast bombed because Sega failed to repair the damage of the Saturn during that lifecycle. The PS4 is an insurmountable success because Sony worked hard to right the sinking ship that initially defined the PS3. Nintendo needs to get the Wii U back on track and that means finding ways to appeal to regular gamers and not just Nintendo fans, and they need to find ways to get third parties back on their side now, or the next console will be an even worse-performing repeat of the Wii U's dismal performance.
I know there are some Nintendo fanboys (and yes, I do mean fanboys because the lighter "fans" term would understand this) that think Nintendo magically doesn't need third party support--even though they very clearly do if they want the income to remain strong and competitive and they actually want their consoles to sell. But the fact is, without third party support, and without sales of 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles, there is really no reason for Nintendo to even make hardware. It makes infinitely more sense for them to just be a third party publisher elsewhere if their fans are already treating them like one instead of like a console maker.
Nintendo can't lazily wait for the next hardware to "fix things" or to act like that will right all that went wrong here. All that's going to do is make them look even worse, and fully hammer home the idea that they are no longer capable of making competitive or important game hardware. The more they reference this phantom next console, the more they're going to hurt themselves, and the harder it will be for them to repair the damage caused by the Wii U.
I think it's pretty obvious. The gamepad was meant to be a home console/portable hybrid that they couldn't figure out in time. They are not releasing a successor to 3DS yet because they need more time to figure out the best way to release a 2 in 1 console/portable.
@bonham2 yeah, the next console could be like an optional gamestream server for the portable nintendophone foldable tablets.
Oh where to start?
How about hardware that matches up to the competitors with equally amazing games at launch and the months after launch to go along with it
A new that doesn't suck balls and won't confuse consumers
A real controller, the pro controller like design would work just fine
That's about all I want
In terms of the games we need a 3D mario game at launch along with another big name franchise with Smash launching in the winter as well as metroid and pikmin in between those. And Zelda and Star Fox the following year. Also pokemon, that shiz sells like hot cakes
It's exciting to speculate on upcoming hardware, but i wish they wouldn't talk so openly about it. It gives the impression that they are already giving up on the Wii U, and if mainstream press picks up on these comments, people will not be as willing to buy a console because they think it's already a lame duck.
There is so much life left in Wii U, and it's coming off increased sales and a year of very solid and critically acclaimed software. I think there is still opportunities for solid sales in the future with more big titles like Zelda and innovative ones like Splatoon in the coming year. But if people keep hearing about Nintendo talking about their next console, who would want to make that investment on a console that it's maker is "declaring" to be dead?
We all know that console planning takes years, but the general public probably does not.
The Wii name will be dropped altogether for sure . I'm sure they've realized that the name has not helped them sell systems . Nintendo was hoping to get those millions of people who bought a Wii back on board to support the Wiiu . That doesn't seem to be happening and it's doubtful that it ever will .
The people running the company are very smart . You don't stay around for a hundred years without good having people on your team . It's hard to tell what direction they will take hardware wise . They are not exactly followers so I wouldn't look to the other systems as inspiration for what Nintendo will do next , especially since Nintendo partially focuses on affordability .
As far as names go I think they should go with the Nintendo Phoenix ! Rising from the ashes to the days of it's former glory . The snes days!
What I want (not in any particular order)
1) a "Fusion" type console
2) backwards compatibility with Wii U games (Wii would also be nice)
3) GameCube on VC (also the VC better be much better next time)
4) unified account system (though this probably wouldn't matter if its a Fusion console)
5) third-party support
6) no region locking
This is all I want for the next console:
-First and foremost, no more 'Wii,' anywhere in the name.
-Have competing processors/RAM/ROM/etc. so it can stand with the other consoles and win third-parties over.
-A built-in hard drive with triple-digit storage numbers. Why people should have needed to go out and buy external storage for an eighth-generation console is beyond me.
-A solid marketing campaign backing the console, which should show people exactly why they should get one without relying on storied franchises. (see the 'Wii would like to play' ad campaign).
-Allow support for Wii U games (somehow).
-Unified account system so your downloads don't disappear if something happens to your console. Also, cross-buy implementation. There's no good reason why I should have to pay for the same game again on my 3DS if I already own it for Wii U, or vice-versa.
-Oh, and an Ethernet port.
Let's see ...
1.) drop the Wii U gamepad and give us something like a combination of the Wii Gamepad Pro and Gamecube contoller plus a bit of Xbox gamepad
2.) the future console needs an ethernet port
3.) more 3rd party games support, please
@NeoGeoX - Something like that but better
It would be good if that 'fusion' console did happen
Bigger hdd. Not a carbon copy physically of the Wii itself, which confused folk to begin with. If they use a similar controller, even clearer resolution. Pressure sensitive triggers. Nfc under the touchscreen like the New Nintendo 3DS so the tablet designed controller can be thinner than the current one (if they use the design again). Complete new innards designed with co-assistance from either nVidia or Radeon and NOT based off of the old Wii hardware with upgrades. Just a few things off the top of my head ☺
I don't know why everyone thinks it's a good idea to put a CD, DVD, blue-ray function on nintendo's next system. More and more people are using streaming survices like Netflix and Amazon instent video. There is really no point to add it now. Sure, DVD/CD on the wii would have been nice but it's pointless now. And it would make the system cost more.
First and foremost, the next system should take steps to repair their relationship with 3rd party developers. And that means listening to them in some capacity. They don't need to bow down, but at the very least comprise and meet in the middle.
More powerful hardware. I don't really care about the larger hard drive so as long as I can attach my own storage. The fusion system goes without saying.
I'd love to see a redesigned Gamepad and Pro Cintroller with analog triggers with support for all their previous controller schemes because you'll need that with...
... Backward compatibility with Wii/Wii U games. Which would lead to a revamped Account system, that will allow me re-download my Wii U games if I need to.
Revamped VC. At least all of the games that were released on Nintendo systems need to represented, paticularly first and second party. There's no excuse that those should be missing. I know it's really up to the License holder as far as 3rd party is concerned. The new VC should have all the games that were released for the last two gens ready to go at launch for fusion support, or whatever they have to do to upgrade them to the new system, I wouldn't mind paying an upgrade fee of .50-1.00.
I really don't care if Nintendo doesn't ever support CD/DVD/blu-ray. I'd wager most people that are clamoring for that are in the minority. All I care about is proper DLNA and MP3/digital video support. If I need to play a physical disc I all my other devices, including a proper Blu-ray player. I'm sure the majority of folks are the same.
I'm sure I'm missing some things, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
@shaneoh they said they were moving forward, not backwards compatible c'mon man.... They sell USB to Ethernet adapters BTW
@Grumblevolcano That was promised? I thought they were just talking about it...
@ericwithcheese2 I don't see a problem with them talking about a new console. I know at least Sony is on record saying they are already thinking about what's next. Gotta remember, consoles aren't whipped up out of thin air it takes years of R&D and they have a whole separate team working on it. Besides, general consumers aren't usually reading this kind of news anyways.
Though I understand the concern as it pertains to the Wii U and Nintendo... The Wii U still have ground to gain and talking about a new system doesn't instill confidence that the Wii U will be around much longer... Lol
@Sir_JBizzle wow... Seems you are quick to blame Nintendo... Let's not forget that all the major publishers were on track with Ninteno, THE devs/Pubs bailed on us, not Nintendo, they responded with excellent first party titles. Blame the devs/pubs. Will everyone stop with the "Backwards compatibility" complaint. Do you still own and play daily, any wii game? I would find any answer greater than "occasionally" to be more of a lie... VC is nice. I agree, it should launch with some weight, but don't you think that EVERY VC title would be a bit much, seeing as not many of them sold well (hence removals)? As for a multi-media game console? LOL. I remember when I had my N64 and you could play old SNES game... Oh wait, you couldn't. You're gonna tell me that instead of playing the great new games on the latest gem console, you want to also be able to go back and play old games? Why not just keep your old console? Eh, that's enough of my diatribe. Your turn!
@MysticX actually... The controller is what sold the Wii last Gen
More power. More Gamecube controller.
More cross-buy
@Savino They will, but it will be the 3DS successor.
The Wii U is not the Wii. During the Wii era I couldn't wait for Nintendo to make a HD console; I couldn't wait to see what a next gen Zelda or Mario Kart would look like in HD. I was angry that they skimped on tech, sold out to the casual market and ignored the demands of the hardcore fans who wanted 'The Revolution' to be a beefier console.
With the Wii U, I feel Nintendo have delivered the powerful console I had been waiting for; The Wind waker HD, Zelda Wii U, MK8, Splatoon, Smash, Xenoblade X all look technically and artistically great, I'm also really fatigued with realistic graphics which suffer too much from the 'uncanny valley' at this point.
Haha, point is: I'm very content with the Wii U right now and am not anticipatively awaiting the next console, like I was during the Wii era.
@Platypus101 Actually, I when I first got the Wii U most of the games I played were old Wii games. Even now there are titles and I am actively seeking. I spent a month with Metroid Prime 3 (and if I can find a good price, I will pick up the trilogy). Xenoblade Chronicles ate up three months of my time this year. Super Paper Mario, Epic Mickey, Animal Crossing: City Folk, and Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands also were played.
When I bought my console, I didn't have a ton of money to drop on games and I had mostly skipped the Wii (having sold it for the 360 which was sold for the Wii U). I grabbed a lot of Wii titles on heavy discount to start my collection. I am still looking to pick up Last Story, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Fragile Dreams, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, and Skyward Sword. My only complaint about the backwards compatibility is the need to start up the old Wii Menu to play these games.
As for improvements, I really wish they had worked more with content providers to increase the number of non gaming apps. NHL Center Ice, MLB, Crackle, Vudu, and whoever else wanted to publish an app should have been embraced. That and improve the performance of the apps that are on the console.
@Quorthon
Well said, but how would you go about righting the ship if you were Iwata? What could Nintendo do to fix the Wii U right now? Please don't say drop the Gamepad; it's just not going to happen.
@Platypus101 True, but the "motion control"-fad seems to be mostly over by now (It was dying out in the end of the Wii's lifetime in fact), and the tablet-controller hasn't made much impact at all, so maybe going back to basics isn't such a bad idea...
Integration between home console and handheld would be the most appealing next step for me. There are already some examples of that, but it's not really simple or intuitive, and it involves buying two copies of the same game. Making each console game available on handheld, and vice versa, would be a huge step forward.
Now that we've had the touch-screen feature, I would hate to lose it. I don't use it a lot in games, but for apps and internet browsing it's invaluable. I really would not want to go back to cycling through a TV keyboard with the directional pad after just being able to tap quickly on the Gamepad with a stylus. A lot of people are praising the GameCube controller, but I don't think it was as good as people are saying. The button layout was pretty crazy, and the location of the Z button was really uncomfortable for me. There isn't anything missing from the Wii U Gamepad. It's a perfectly good controller that happens to have a screen in the center of it. My only complaint is, again, the Z button location. The PS2 controller was most comfortable with its R1 R2, L1 L2 layout.
The return of motion-controlled games would be welcome. I really enjoyed swinging the sword in Zelda, and games like Elebits were great fun.
@Darknyht good luck on your Wii checklist (I also waited a bit too long for quite a few of those titles, and boy were they hard to come by... Cheap)! as for your gaming ha it's, I believe you maybe in the minority, picking up a next gen console for its backwards compatibility, and playing mostly those games I figured most folk would have moved onto the WiiU from the Wii (hence why I think sales are rubbish, few upgraded, very few.) as for the Wii menu on the Wii U, I agree, WTF mate? Could there be no better way? Non gaming apps would also have been better than TVii (I do not use, since it service provider based, and I watch all stuff streaming). BTW I too am a budget gamer, having only paid 53% overall on all titles currently on my U (I own quite a few Nintendo titles thanks to the SSB sale urging September/October!) we did just get Cruchyroll... but like my Apple TV, I would like to see some additional apps.
@Platypus101 Actually for most of the time before Mario Kart 8 came out I did in fact play Wii games. Mario Kart Wii's online was very prominent for me right until it died late May, I saw myself replaying games like Metroid Prime 2, DKCR and Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn every so often (the latter was actually a main game I was playing in June/July). Not to mention that of course Wii mode is the only way to play N64 and Mega Drive games on Wii U.
To be really honest backwards compatibility is much more important than large 3rd party support.
@MysticX oh yeah... I agree. I was only replying to the comment about controllers not selling games... I was playing devils advocate I know "if there is an exception to the rule, then the rule stands" and the rule here is, gamers like basic controllers (options are nice, but not necessary)
@Grumblevolcano like I said before... I don't dislike backwards compatibility, in fact that was a selling point when purchasing my Wii U 18 months ago, but that a new console should be limited by its need to be backwards compatible is just not right. Sony and MS both left Backwards compatibility behind, and I don't see the news articles dooming and glooming them... Maybe it's time we wholeheartedly support moving forward in its entirty, rather than hold ourselves back with the past. I too would like to Nintendo match the other guys, but I don't think it will be possible by serving the future and the past at the same time. btw, I'm all for keeping my old consoles, sure they eat up space, but that's why I went all digital this gen
Other than hardware stuff like actually having a powerful system for the next generation, it's mostly software stuff that they still need to fix like establishing a modern account system, creating a stable, fast, and versatile OS the likes of recent Android versions, and removing region lock.
Basically, make their next console less anti-consumer.
@burninmylight
No, Nintendo can't drop the GamePad. It's both the console's value and its crutch.
They should follow Sony's example with the PS3--humbly get to work with 3rd party developers and publishers to get content back on the console, and then work on ways to sell it to their generally stubborn fans who only look out for Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon games (MZP) and little else. They should also incorporate their own kind of Achievement/Trophy system because, like it or not, these things have an effect.
I also have a PS4 in addition to my Wii U, and if I can get a certain game on the PS4 with Trophies, then I'm likely to opt for that over the Trophy/Achievement-free Wii U version.
Here are my thoughts on what they can do to become more competitive and right the Wii U:
1. More 3rd party games and exclusives. But where? Go for PC and mobile. Find the bigger gems there and work with those developers to upgrade their games as exclusives for Wii U. Take something like Legend of Grimrock and make the Wii U the only way to play it on a console (maybe a retail release with both games in one set). This will strengthen the Wii U, grab the attention of more non-Nintendo gamers, and build relationships with 3rd parties so that they have support already interested in whatever they do next.
2. Create a paid subscription service, or an optional "higher tier" of Club Nintendo that works like PSN+ and Xbox Live Gold, and heavily incorporate third party and indie games in there. Every month, I get 3~5 games from Sony for the equivalent of $5 a month. That's a damn strong motivator for consumers. Nintendo needs to do the same.
3. Slow down the MZP release schedules. Nintendo works to actively deliver a major retail Zelda game on an annual basis, and multiple games per year with Mario slapped on them (there are already THREE planned for 2015--Mario Maker, Mario Party, and Mario vs Donkey Kong U). These distract Nintendo fans from newer titles like Splatoon and Codename STEAM, and they give non-Nintendo fans the impression that there is nothing else to play on the consoles.
4. Bundle deals and special editions. Start releasing Wii U consoles packed with new releases and paint jobs the way MS did the Xbox 360. Have a Splatoon-themed special edition bundle, a Xenoblade Chronicles X limited edition Wii U, etc. This keeps the stock constantly changing in stores and makes them look like there's always something new to consumers.
The thing is, the Wii U looks like a sinking ship, and that keeps gamers and developers away. And that sinking ship status will be remembered when the next console is announced, which will only make accomplishing this stuff harder.
Without sales from larger audiences (beyond the core Nintendo fan demographic), and without revenue from 3rd party games, Nintendo's potential for success gradually slips away and they will be forced to go third party or merge with someone like Sony. They can't go it alone and thrive. They may struggle to survive, but they will never be the same Nintendo who delivered the SNES--they will instead be the Nintendo who delivered the N64 or GameCube. Struggling for half-relevance and attempting to promote their machine as an afterthought companion piece to a better console.
GameInformer recently updated their currently known 2015 release list. The PS4 has 27 exclusive games. The Xbox One has 11 and the Wii U has 11--and three of those Wii U titles are Mario games. The PS4 and XBO also both have loads of multi-platform titles on them and strong subscription services adding to their value. The Wii U does not have either of those.
They also need to start dumping eShop games that make the service look bad.
@Platypus101 Instead Sony and Microsoft are creating a dull generation of virtually only ports of games that came out 1-2 years ago. Sure if Reach comes to the Master Chief Collection (ODST was confirmed as a free present for buyers who had to put up with the server problems), it'll be a good concept as all Halo games of the FPS type will be present on the same console but if the Xbox One had backward compatibility with 360 titles then only a Halo 2 anniversary would've been needed.
@Sir_JBizzle
Excellent post. They very much need to listen better to third party developers and publishers.
I have a feeling the next console will not be backwards-compatible with the Wii and Wii U. With as poorly as the Wii U is performing, it would be in their best interest to distance themselves from the now-tarnished "Wii" branding.
However, as I illustrated above, it's important that they start rebuilding their relationships with 3rd party developers now, on the Wii U, or they're going to have a nigh-impossible task when they try to do it with the next console. They need to rebuild confidence now because if they walk away from the Wii U as a failure, there won't be much confidence in the next hardware at all.
@Platypus101 I think I am edging you out slightly on the savings for now, I've saved 55% off the retail price for most of what I own. I try to stick to a hard budget for the year. I've learned that it means you have to be willing to wait to play games, and knowing the real price of something so you can spot a deal properly.
I do think that not being backwards compatible has both hurt and helped Microsoft and Sony. The biggest way it helped them was the ability to basically repackage and resell a lot of "HD Editions" of games that people have been willing to purchase because they couldn't just slap the copy they bought two years ago into the console (and it gives them "something" to play on the system during the post launch drought). I also think it hurts because there isn't a library to draw upon while there is those slow spells that take place during the first year of a console launch.
I have a lot of friends that still are die hard Xbox players, but most have either waited to purchase a XBO or bought one and use the 360 more currently because it hasn't hit the critical threshold in games and friends owning the system with the right games for them. It will get there, but the pain would have been less had they been able to play the 360 version of something on the XBO with their friends still.
@Grumblevolcano
Your comment is ridiculous. MS and Sony are creating a dull generation of virtually only ports? How the hell can you even make such a statement outside of actually knowing nothing about them? For that matter, what the hell do you call Wind Waker HD, Ocarina of Time 3D, Majora's Mask 3D, and the Virtual Console? What's so different about Mario Kart 8 besides taking away ideas from F-Zero?
There are, currently known, 27 exclusive games for the PS4 planned for 2015, 11 for the Xbox One, and 11 for the Wii U--and on the Wii U, only Splatoon and Devil's Third aren't a sequels or a remakes of some kind--that's literally it. Maybe this mystery title "Underground," whatever the hell that is. It's almost the exact opposite for the Xbox One, which has only Fable, Halo 5, and State of Decay as sequels.
Nintendo is, quite literally, the worst company where remakes, ports, and rereleases are concerned as nobody does it more. Note, when Majora's Mask releases on the 3DS, that will mark the fifth Nintendo platform on which that game is playable. Majora's Mask will be playable on more consoles than Microsoft even has!
Look how many games are slated for the Xbox One, PS4, and yes, even the Vita compared to the Wii U and 3DS: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/12/29/2015-video-game-release-schedule.aspx
Hit Ctrl+F and you'll see Vita appears on the list 30 times. The 3DS. 9.
There are more Vita games than Wii U games slated for 2015. Nintendo has fewer games, and of their exclusives, they have the highest percentage of sequels, remakes, and predictable franchise fillers. Again, three of them are Mario games. THREE MARIO GAMES.
@Platypus101 Okay. For one, if you know my post history, I don't exclusively blame N for their problems, but I'd be remiss to say they didn't play a part in their problems, The marketing of the Wii U being a big black eye in paticular. It's the whole catch 22 thing. Nintendo didn't sell enough units to appease 3rd parties, since they didn't sell enough units, then game sales suffer, since game sales suffer, they pulled support. Another one of the 3rd parties excuses for not supporting Wii U is that it's different to develop for than the PS4 and XBOX ONE. Not to mention the supposed power gap. So there's two things Nintendo could do off the bat to improve 3rd party relations:
-Market the heck out of their next machine
-Put it on par with with current technology standards at the time it's released. If it needs other bells and whistles, do the whole "Separate OSes" thing that Microsoft did with the XB1. That's what I mean by meeting in the middle with 3rd parties. Make it easier to port games to the system. As Sony did with the PS4. I'm as big a fan of Nintendo as anyone else, but honestly they've shot themselves in the foot for years, from proprietary formats (N64 carts, GCN discs, odd control schemes and under powered systems [Wii]) to whatever is going on with the Wii U now. 3rd parties have seem to lost confidence in the Nintendo brand, so it's time for Nintendo to reach out for real and listen to the 3rd parties to see how they can get them back on track. I will say that there's some work to go, but Nintendo has knocked it out the park with indies this gen for the most part. They need some of that magic with the major pubs/devs.
Where was I complaining about backwards compatibility? it's more of a "nice to have" thing for me. If they don't, I won't complain, as I'll still have my Wii U, just like I still have my Wii and every other system from every other gen. I still revisit games from previous gens, while still enjoying the current gens offerings, especially as it pertains to Nintendo games, I don't know how many times I went back to classics like OoT and Super Mario 64. There are also some games I go back to on the Wii as well (and some I've yet to play) I ask you this: Cash grab arguments aside, if people didn't care about revisiting classics, then why do people snap up re-releases when they drop on current gens? As far as the daily argument, that's an absurd question for a multi-console owner. Of course I'm not playing any Wii games daily, I don't play any one game daily, on any system. Heck there are days I don't play at all. As far as what I'm currently going through on the Wii, I'm replaying the Metroid Prime Trilogy and Super Mario Galaxy 2.... I also just started up Xenoblade Chronicles again to tide me over to X. All of those I'm playing on my Wii U. That's backward compatible. So there's that. BC also helps with cross-gen gap. From a regular consumer standpoint (not necessarily a gamer), I directed my friend to a Wii U over a Wii when she was deciding what to buy her daughter for Christmas. Backwards compatibility sold her. She even picked up a few Wii games because she wanted some suggestions on what games were good for that gen.
On VC: Perhaps you didn't read my whole point on that thoroughly, as I said on release, the VC should at least have all the games that were released on Wii and Wii U. Obviously there's overlap because there are titles that released on both. There's no reason Nintendo can't have a team dedicated to that. When I say all the games released on Nintendo systems, I'm painting with a broad brush, honestly. I don't literally mean every game, as some games were duds that should never see the light of day. I'm more or less talking about games that were released on Nintendo systems (I was excluding the ones that never hit a Nintendo system like Neo-Geo and SEGA games) I also added the further caveat that there's no reason Nintendo couldn't strive to have at the very least all of their first and second party offerings represented on the VC eventually as they have licencing control over those. Third party, as I said in my previous post, is beyond their control and I can understand that.
Missed Wii U Features
Account based digital purchase system.
More powerful base hardware.
No region lock.
Oh my god just make it powerful, not give it a stupid name,and a controller for pete sake.And for the love of shrek advertise the damn thing!Or or just wait until Sony and Microsoft release their next gen console's,then release your's so you won't be the weakest of the three.Oh what am i saying it's going to be the weakest of the three regardless.
@Quorthon Note that I specifically said about ports that came out 1-2 years ago. There isn't a problem with making remakes of games which are more than 1 generation old (which all Nintendo games that have gotten remakes except Xenoblade Chronicles and DKCR satisfy) but it's getting ridiculous that so many games such as GTAV, The Last of Us, Halo 4, Tomb Raider (2013) that came out 1-2 years ago got remade already. As for Majora's Mask, the 3D remake coming out next year is the first port in which the game actually works properly (the Wii VC and GC ports border on unplayable so then you have the choice of waiting for the 3D remake or buying the N64 cartridge). Your comment about sequels can pretty much be applied to any sequel on Microsoft or Sony consoles and 3 Mario games haven't been confirmed for next year, only 2 and you shouldn't even compare Mario Party and 2D Mario platformers.
@Yorumi The 3DS successor is already out in Japan and Australia as well as coming out elsewhere next year, the New 3DS.
@Vincent294 I would think they would be going more for the success of the original Wii, SNES, or NES. The N64 was its first console that that fell behind to second place (and it was a pretty distant second). The Gamecube then fell even further back to third place. The Wii brought Nintendo back to greatness, unexpectedly outselling Microsoft and PlayStation's powerful boxes.
@Quorthon You do realize that Mario vs Donkey Kong, Mario Party, and Mario Maker are three different series that happen to use Mario as the main character?
There is a different approach to what Nintendo does in terms of sequels in comparison to most companies. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox all get sequels but they are usually limited to one or two games per console. Metroid: Prime was the first time that three Metroid games graced a console (not counting handhelds). Their characters however are actors that can appear in multiple series (3D world series, NSMB series, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario Golf, etc.). It is a different approach to a problem versus the spinning out of multiple sequels on the same system with incremental updates. It also tends to make each game more special and enjoyable to revisit for me (milage may vary for others). Nintendo doesn't always follow that pattern, but generally their games suffer when they don't (Mario Party during the Gamecube years).
Likewise, Microsoft and Sony are dealing with the lack of titles after launch differently than Nintendo did (HD ports vs backwards compatible). There are advantages and disadvantages to each choice.
Honestly, I think most of us would be better off to look at what each console offers versus what it doesn't compared to another console. As long as you have games that you enjoy what difference does it ultimately make which console you play it on?
I finally played on the Xbox One for the first time this Christmas Day. It is a nice console, but it was frustrating to watch major parts of games and services be unavailable because it was dependent on the "cloud". It was also very much lacking in options for couch co-op, which is the preferred way my family plays. Our options were limited to playing Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Survival mode and Pinball FX2. (I know there is Diablo 3, Halo Collection, Lego games and Skylanders but those were not what we like playing) That isn't saying it is a bad console, just not focused on providing that feature for the most part. So I am glad that there is someone out there still doing it.
Sometimes I feel that Nintendo understimates the idiocy of many people. When they talk about future plans and consoles they make so many haters to speculate about a new console, and that'll just hurt them.
Next year is full of amazing games, I just hope the rumours about a new console don't spread that much
@Grumblevolcano
I don't disagree that it's a little absurd to see so many games from late last-gen getting re-releases on the XBO and PS4, my only point was that Nintendo is often much worse and it's time to stop acting like they're some kind of beacon of light in gaming.
The Legend of Zelda is an annual franchise with a major retail release almost every single year since 1998.
Nintendo re-releases and remakes more games than any other game company. There are already hints that the "new" StarFox will just be another remake.
MS and Sony both have more new titles coming in 2015, both exclusive and multi-platform, than Nintendo has across the board.
I'm against remakes as a whole, regardless of the time between them, because it's wasted resources that are better spent on making new games, while older ones are better re-released quickly through something like the Virtual Console or GOG.
Keep in mind, by the way, that the glut of last-gen ports on the PS4 and XBO over their first year is the norm in this industry. It happens with every new generation, and is an easy way for developers to both test the new hardware without taking big risks, and for them to get some revenue to work on full-fledged titles for the new hardware. What we saw for the PS4 and XBO is a bit disappointing, but it's also normal. By all means, check out what they have lined up for next year. It's incredible.
Nintendo's next system need's to have a ethernet port built in, have at least a 500gb hard drive like the ps3/ps4 and also have where you can purchase any other 2.5 hard drive to upgrade the new system if you run out of room. I like the gamepad but don't really care for the placement of the ZL and ZR button's on it the placement on the Wii U Pro controller ZL and ZR buttons are way better, but I like having the a,b,x,y buttons spacing better on the gamepad. They need to have only one controller for there new console instead of 10.
Now is the time for GameCube 2. A new controller mix between Wii u pro and GameCube. Awesome online with a PlayStation plus/Xbox live monthly free game and something that can go above and beyond ps4 and Xbox one. The time for motion control and second screen controllers has passed. But miiverse was genius, it really made you feel connected to a community. A new advanced version would be great. And if they keep their mii's at least let us purchase clothing and hats and props etc. Some kind of achievement system would be nice, they could do coins. Bronze coins, silver coins, gold coins and red coins. Or stars. I love Nintendo but i love third party games too and my ps4 gets all of my attention.
Why are people unaware that all successful companies are constantly involved in R&D for their next EVERYTHING! Sure, they may release earlier or later dependent upon the success of the current platform, but they're not going to irrationally dump the Wii U. They're not doing as well as they'd wanted, but they also know they will be ostracizing they're most loyal fans.
They won't replace the Wii U until at earliest 2017.
@Darknyht
Metroid Prime only had two games on the GameCube.
And yes, the three Mario games are "different" games, but it does not change the fact that Nintendo is already over-using the character for the year. Nintendo fans like to cast games like Call of Duty and Halo in negative light for their annual releases, but at least their annual games tend to be new releases and only appear once per year, not several times per year like Mario does.
Yes, there is a different approach to what Nintendo does with sequels--in that nearly all of them are actually thinly veiled remakes of previous games, and that goes for pretty much all of their games, which recycle stories, concepts, plots, items, and ideas. StarFox64 was a remake of the SNES-original StarFox--and there are already hints that the Wii U StarFox will be another remake of the same game, which wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Now, I agree that we should look at what each console offers, and going forward, the Wii U looks okay for 2015, but not as good as the XBO or PS4, which both feature vastly larger libraries of new and original content. While 2014 had a glut of ports (as literally every new console gets in its first year), 2015 looks to be a full-on assault of new content to enjoy.
I also agree with you that there needs to be more couch co-op all around. My son and I spent part of the holiday break playing Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris on the PS4, and it's a lot of fun, and requires some clever teamwork. That said, my girlfriend and I are bummed to have very little for us to co-op together. Hopefully we don't have to wait too much longer for a new Gears of War for her XBO. Previously we spent a lot of time with Call of Duty online on the Wii U, Gears of War, Borderlands, and Halo (Halo, byt the way, neither of us care for anymore). The online-only co-op of Far Cry 4 and Sunset Overdrive are frustrating as we love those (the former me, the latter, her).
We need to stop putting Nintendo on a pedestal like they're something different or special. They aren't, and the Wii U is showing this. Nintendo leans on Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon too heavily to the detriment of everything else. They need to space these out--Zelda releases shouldn't occur more than once every two or three years. This annual crap devalues the franchise. I'm sick of seeing Mario grace the covers of 3~6 games every single year.
Nintendo is not going to sell the Wii U to anyone but Nintendo fans with Mario and Zelda. And their over-use of these two franchises only convinces other gamers that this hardware is not for them because then that's all they see. Look at all the unnecessary fervor around Majora's Mask getting a release for a 5th platform. It completely obscured any amount of attention that should have gone to Splatoon and Codename STEAM.
Remember, when the Wii U launched, it also had a bunch of last-gen ports. And so did the Xbox 360, Wii, and PS3 when they launched. That is normal for a new generation. We can't hold that against the PS4 and XBO, or the Wii U's first year for that matter. It's a bummer, but it's a norm.
In 2015, the Wii U is overly heavy on sequels and remakes, while having no third party support. The XBO and PS4 are filled with new and original games, multiplatform 3rd party support, expected sequels, and more exclusives than Nintendo (who only have exclusives). And three games with Mario on the cover.
You know, instead of F-Zero, Star Tropics, Eternal Darkness, Geist, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Wave Race, Excite Bike/Truck/Bots, Disaster, Fatal Frame, etc.
What Nintendo has planned for 2015 would be like Disney releasing 10 movies next year, and three of them all starring Mickey Mouse, and two of them as remakes passed off as new movies. The only Wii U releases I'm looking forward to are Splatoon, Xenoblade, and Devil's Third. I have no interest in all the other sameness.
@BetweenTheTrees
Alright, I have to say this. I loved the GameCube--it was a great Nintendo console with solid 3rd party support, and a great library, despite it's struggles. Half of the four best Metroid games ever made (Prime 3 and Super being the other two), Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Ikaruga, and so much more.
The controller was comfortable to hold, but dammit, it was also a very crappy controller in so many ways.
The ABXY layout was not well-designed for most games, particularly fighting games (except Smash and, somehow Soulcalibur II). The L & R buttons were a squishy mess with their awkward "double use" that never worked out. The Z-button was unnecessary and awkward. Suffice to say, the shoulder buttons and triggers of the X360, XBO, PS3, PS4, and Wii U Pro are all vastly superior to the shoulder buttons on the GameCube, comfortable or not. And the C-stick was not comfortable, and neither stick clicked as buttons.
Can we just admit that the GameCube controller was really only good for one thing? Smash Bros and that was it. It was comfortable to hold, but the buttons were illogically designed for almost every game genre out there. I don't think anyone would prefer to use that controller over any modern controller for pretty much anything not called Smash Bros, because it really wasn't good for anything else.
@BetweenTheTrees Absolutely not on the concept of paid services like Xbox Live and Playstation Plus. Just think about it, how many times have Nintendo consoles been hacked in terms of taking systems offline or stealing credit card details, very few and none of the latter. Look at Microsoft and Sony and the answer becomes several for both including one situation that only happened a few days ago.
@Grumblevolcano
So, what, you don't want Nintendo to step it up in online gaming because you're afraid of ass-holes trying to ruin your fun? Nintendo's Japanese arm of Club Nintendo was hacked just last year.
http://kotaku.com/in-japan-nintendo-was-hacked-675798797
Maybe we should just research a cure for ass-holes.
And Nintendo very much needs to create a service like Xbox Live Gold and PSN+. I get five games a month from Sony for the equivalent of $5. Nintendo has nothing that competitive. A premium version of Club Nintendo makes the most logical sense.
@Yorumi That is a good point. Imo though they are not talking it up and it's being made to look that way, but that's my opinion and I appreciate you presenting your opinions to I can get a better understanding of where others are coming from.
@Grumblevolcano
To be fair to MS and Sony most of the remakes on their boxes are third-party. Sony did TLOU and MS the Halo Collection which it must be said, is very good value for 4 games on one disc. Sony have done a few more on PSN but I got the PS4 versions free where I had the PS3 versions.
The only reason the Wii U doesn't have ports of Tomb Raider, GTA V, Sleeping Dogs etc. is because it doesn't have any third-party support at all.
@Yorumi
MS had similar sales. My girlfriend bought Sunset Overdrive for $30 as part of their end-of-year deals. That game is a month old and she got it half price. I only bought Nighogg and Peggle 2 on the PS4.
I didn't find the sales in the eShops to be as compelling, and Activision's non-Call of Duty/Skylanders catalog has been of a staggeringly low quality lately (but they were all on sale in the eShop). Although I bought that Van Helsing sniper game for a dollar on the 3DS. It was a dollar. I bet I get at least $2 of fun out of that one.
At any rate, after the games we get for Live Gold (my girlfriend) and PSN+ (myself), we're both happy we bought these new consoles this early in the generation because it's going to be a pretty great going forward (at least on the XBO and PS4). If only there was more storage space in all these damn consoles to store all the great games in-coming.
@Quorthon Some of the hype around Majora's Mask is because it is one of the few Zelda's that broke a lot of traditional Zelda mold. I think people look at it as I look at Final Fantasy IV, VI and IX; and others look at FF VII and VIII. Just look at how crazy people go over the hint of Final Fantasy VII being re-released or the Halo: Master Chief Collection. I don't think the hype is because of a remake, but because it is a remake that many hold dear.
I think Nintendo uses Mario, Pikachu, Donkey Kong and Link so much because they are iconic. It would be like asking Disney not to slap Mickey, Donald and Goofy everywhere; or Warner Bros to not use Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, and crew. In the case of Pikachu, it is also a symbol for Japanese national pride (it was on their soccer team's plane even). So Mario appears on their sports games because it sells copies of the game that otherwise wouldn't sell.
I agree there are a lot of franchises that Nintendo has neglected, and they are too quick to slap Mario on games. I don't think we will ever know how close Splatoon game to being Mario Splat. But some of the old franchises have been damaged. Would we have bought the Tomato Adventure serise if it had not become Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga?
Personally, I don't mind that they plan on releasing two eShop Mario games along with a retail one. Splatoon, Zelda, Xenoblade, Yoshi, Kirby, Starfox, Mario Party and Devil's Third makes a fairly diverse retail release schedule. Throw in Mario Maker, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Project: Guard, and Project: Giant Robot and there is a fairly diverse lineup (especially in terms of gameplay).
I just wish they were more aggressive in courting what third parties they can. Go for Natsume, Mistwalker, XSeed, Arc System Works, Atlus, and Sega. Especially go after Sega to make something other than a Sonic. How awesome would it be to see Sega revive or release Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, Virtua Fighter, Space Channel 5, Phantasy Star, Super Monkey Ball, and other classic franchises on Wii U?
@Quorthon Thanks! As I've said before, They have their evergreen titles in Mario and Zelda, they just can't live off those perpetually. Concerning the Wii U, the only reason I didn't say what they could do to help this particular system out is because I was trying to stay on topic, as often times I go off the rails. Ha. Also, I don't mind them talking about a new system because every company looks to the future. It's negligence if they aren't. I do agree however that they need to start looking at ways to help the Wii U now as it pertains to 3rd parties and building confidence in the Nintendo brand for the future.
To address your points:
1) Not only go after PC/Mobile games, but they need to crack open that warchest a bit a pull more Bayonettas and Devil's Thirds: Publish dying or dormant franchises that no one wants to take on from other companies. Hey, Nintendo! Capcom isn't doing much with MegaMan, how about signing an exclusive deal to get some new games developed on your system. I'm sure folks would kill to have another Mega Man Legends. To add, perhaps reach out to other developers to make games for genres that they are sorely lacking such as sports. Kind of like what they did in the N64 days.
2) I wouldn't mind a paid subscription service, even if it was just for their VC service and like you said, indies. Though I don't know how well this kind of thing would work for third party offerings anyways, as Nintendo doesn't have a ton to choose from and because the Wii itself is all but dead, they can't offer much on that side of things. What they could do is keep Digital Deluxe Program indefinitely and open it up for everyone with a NNID/Club Nintendo membership.
3) To add my opinion on the whole MZP debate that's going on right now, I don't mind a new proper 3D Mario or main Zelda entry as they only come really once per home console (Twice if you include the cross-gen Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy). Mario Party, Strikers and the lot are skippable to me, you either get those or you don't. Mario Kart comes once per home console, as well as Super Smash Bros. which is really a celebration of all their franchises than anything else. I do take task that you do see Mario's face everywhere it seems. They have other franchises that could probably use the spotlight. Where's Eternal Darkness? Geist? Will they bring Fatal Frame to West? DK:TF is nice, but where's the Rare style 3D adventure? Ice Climbers? Kid Icarus? F-Zero? 1080 Snowboarding? Wave Race? Hell, they could make a pretty good adventure out of Balloon Fight if they wanted to... I know it's basically another spin-off of Mario, but where's Luigi's Mansion? I also know that Pokemon was a point of contention for you, but what about a Pokemon MMO for the Wii U. I could probably go on and on...
4) Bundles? Whole heartedly agree with that. They were the undisputed kings of that from NES-N64 era... I can't even count on both hands how many special edition N64s were released. Heck even the 3DS gets tons of skins and special bundles.
But yea... that was long, but that's all I got for now.. LOL
@Darknyht The problem with that argument is that I'm hard pressed to find Mickey and the crew plastered everywhere. I can't remember the last time I've seen a Mickey Mouse cartoon series, or for that matter mickey plastered everywhere on their branding. There's the Mickey ears on the main Disney channel logo and whatever they have going on at DisneyLand/World. When all is said and done, I see more Disney Princess and Marvel branding than anything from Mickey, Donald and Goofy. Of course this is all from my observations.
Edit: Though yea.. all those partnerships you listed at the end of your post. Nintendo definitely needs to make that happen!
I think what they missed and thought the need to add next time is an ACTUAL market campaign so that people know the thing is even coming out AND what to expect from it.
Seriously though.
They should go for graphics and high power for Nintendo 7.
They should retain the gamepad.
They should open the NNID and allow multiple consoles per account and ensure all your wii u library can be accessed on your nintendo 7.
The New 3DS should be a fully functioning controller for it.
It should launch with must have games and have a steady flow of titles through its first 24 months, namely:
Eternal darkness sequel to a high spec with original as additiknal content.
F-zero.
Zelda.
Proper mario.
1080
Wave race
Luigis mansion 3.
Co developed/published third party line up and ensure long running big hits such as fifa, Madden, battlefield, street fighter etc are all present and correct.
Have a much heavier and beefier virtual console release stream. Incorporating n64, gamecube, wii, mega drive, Saturn, dreamiest formats.
Basically just quality from day one and really shout it in everyone's faces about what they will be missing if they don't buy one.
Xboxone is almost been and gone with minimal interest and ps4 is putting forward nothing interesting. Nintendo have a golden window to bring new hardware within next 12 months as it will be at least another 6 years for next ps/Xbox.
Rebuying isn't a real issue as hardly anybody has bought a wii u, I'd imagine the majority of the install base would reinvest if it was backward compatible and there was an option to just buy the console unit if preferred and your account and peripherals all were compatible
I hope he's talking about better integration with their handheld system. Even better: I hope this ends up resulting in the Fusion concept coming to life.
@Darknyht
I would shy away from Project Guard and Giant Robot as "games" since it's not remotely clear that they are, and the only hints we have are that they might become part of StarFox.
I certainly don't think Nintendo should stop using Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon, but only that they should space them out and stop relying on them as a crutch. They risk alienating too many gamers and becoming dependent on too small an audience.
I liked the Zelda franchise a lot more when new releases felt like major events, spaced years apart. Now they just feel like any other annual franchise--be it Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed or whatever. I just don't give a crap. The new Wii U Zelda looks pretty sharp, but frankly, I don't really care. I'm vastly more excited for Xenoblade Chronicles, in large part because I never thought there would be another one, and the first one broke with so many tired JRPG tropes that I was able to truly enjoy the game. Given the low sales of the Wii U, the poor initial sales of Xenoblade 1, and the likely cost of XCX, I don't expect there will ever be a third game. So I'll be jumping on that as soon as I can. For the same reason, I'm interested in Devil's Third.
In the meantime, Zelda and Mario appear so frequently, I have no interest in either. And I think this is the way gamers outside of Nintendo look at the company. "Oh, they make Mario and Zelda and Pokemon and that's about it." That isn't going to sell consoles. It doesn't help that so many other franchises are spun-off or related to Mario, like Donkey Kong, Wario, Toad, Luigi, and Yoshi.
I agree with your sentiment that Nintendo should work with 3rd parties better--which is part of why I think they need new management or a major merger (imagine if they merged with Sega), because Nintendo has been traditionally bad at dealing with 3rd parties and they need new management to show them the way. Reggie was previously CEO of Pizza Hut, and his coming on-board was a trigger that led to Rare being sold off--and later gutted by Microsoft. And the revival of Killer Instinct... what a pity.
I think Miyamoto and Iwata are just too old-school Nintendo in this regard. They tend to act like 3rd parties either don't matter or they'll come on-board if the console "just sells well enough." They don't seem to understand that, without competitive modern features (paid subscription models, better online, Trophies/Achievements, stronger user accounts, powerful hardware for modern engines, etc) and their active seeking of 3rd parties, their consoles won't have sales to begin with.
Look at the N64 library sometime--despite how small it is, and the notorious difficulty in development on the console, it actually had quite good support in sports games and EA titles, and that's because Reggie's predecessors (notably Howard Lincoln) actively went after companies like EA to get 3rd party support. He got them on-board, made deals with them, and helped pad the library on the N64 with ever-important sports games. I don't care for sports games, but I fully recognize how important they are for a game console. Putting Mario's face on a sports game is not going to cut it. Your hockey games need the Minnesota Wild and Colorado Avalanche, not the Mushroom Kingdom Puffyups and Toad Town Bigheads. That may appeal to a small demographic, but it will not inspire general consumers to give a crap.
Nintendo seems strangely selective on which 3rd parties they seem to care about--some Sega, Atlus, and the occasional troubled Japanese developer or project, as in the case with Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third. But then they still don't know what to do with Mature games!
They definitely need to do better with 3rd parties, and sadly, I think what may need to happen is for a big change in management--either hiring from outside the company or through a merger. Frankly, I think they should coax someone out of a leadership position at Sony or Microsoft's games divisions, if for no other reason than to create a major upset and help them learn what they seem to refuse to understand.
I hate to say it, because I like the guys (particularly Miyamoto), but I think Iwata, Miyamoto, and Reggie are hindering the progress the company deserves. No one can win forever, and no matter how good any one player is, either they quit in their prime, or they drag the team down with them when they're past their prime. Nintendo doesn't want to trade Miyamoto, but keeping him isn't really doing them any favors anymore. He may well be both the best and worst thing in their line-up.
I am just afraid the Gamepad is going to vanish instead of being improved upon. That controller has literally change how I play video games. I'll be pretty sad if it goes. Also after buying the playstation tv (since my vita tends to be left at home) I NEED Nintendo to make one of these for the wiiu or next system. I love my handhelds, but some of us have poor eyesight and don't want to play an rpg hunched over a handheld.
Hahaha, some of these comments are ridiculous. Right now, Nintendo just got back into the positive with their finances. They are just looking to build from here. A PS plus like subscription does not work for a smaller company like Nintendo. Sony and Microsoft can afford to hand out games for free because they are mega corporations. Just enjoy the Wii U folks.
@Sir_JBizzle
Good response sir, let me offer brief retorts:
1. There are some real gems in PC and mobile that could really thrive on the right console--like Legend of Grimrock as I noted. I picked that one for a reason. It's one of my few Steam games, but as I played it, I wished it was on a console, particularly the Wii U. I partially agree that they should revive games like Bayonetta and Devil's Third, but to do this too much might put too much of a financial burden on the company. I think helping other games (like Grimrock) get to the Wii U in some new format, and exclusive would work better because it lowers the financial burden on Nintendo, but they can make a deal that benefits both the original developers and Nintendo.
2. They should definitely keep the DDP going, but sadly, it appears that they won't. Paid subscriptions on the PS and XB consoles regularly feature 3rd party games and content, which means third parties must heavily support the concepts. And why not? It's a very effective way to get your game to a lot more customers very easily. There are a lot of PS games I would likely never have played if not for PSN+.
I'm not one for personal anecdotes as they are not evidence of anything, but I have one here: The odds of me finding the Velocity series on PSN may have been pretty low if not for PSN+, but Velocity Ultra and Velocity 2X instantly became favorites for me because of this access. So much so, that when they announced another game (Surge), I bought it instantly based on the pedigree this developer showed. I'm willing to bet this strength works out well enough that 3rd parties would be more inclined to work with Nintendo if they had such a method of easy game delivery. Again, just an anecdote, but I will say, the second I hear of Velocity 3, I'm paying full price for it. PSN+ sold me on this franchise.
3. I'm also fine with occasional Mario games. Back in the day, when Yoshi's Island came out (with Super Mario World 2 tacked onto the title), I was giddy for a new Mario adventure, and it was exciting even if it wasn't quite Mario. But now, with so many games with Mario on the cover, and so many overly similar games and somewhat different adventures, it's exhausting to the point of driving me to apathy. I'd love another Mario Galaxy, but with the New Super Mario games, the 3D Land/World games, all the spin-off stuff. Ugh, give me a break.
Worse, not only do they detract from the actual new and unique/original titles (Punch-Out, Sin & Punishment on the Wii, Splatoon and Codename STEAM now), it means they're wasting resources making predictable stuff that won't sell consoles instead of broadening the library, which likely would. Damn straight I want another Eternal Darkness or a revival of Geist or Mach Rider. I want Fatal Frame released over here and a new Punch-Out. Hell, I can think of so many great ideas for a massive 3-D Ice Climbers platformer it's ridiculous--and it could fill both a couch and online co-op slot! On the simplest side, you take the idea behind a co-op adventure like Portal 2 and combine it with Ice Climbers in a full 3-D world and you have a recipe for success.
Instead, here's another Mario Party game. A franchise known for mediocre reviews and shallow, repetitive gameplay. That sound you heard was my PS4 starting up.
I'm pretty sure he has something in mind that is one step closer to VR. I guess he learned/thought about that too late into the Wii U deveploment so he couldn't apply that on the Wii U. And that's why he is "frustrated" about that...
However, that is mainly what I personally want to see: Getting closer to full VR. It is pretty clear that it will happen somewhere in the near future (my bet is anywhere from to 5-20 years), so why not getting closer in the meantime.
Besides I want more online based games for Wii U, with online campaigns and story modes. Other then that I would Nintendo to apply to a console the most advanced GPUs and CPUs just so that will be no excuse for comapnies not to deliver their games to Wii U.
@Cyberbotv2
They are not handing out games for free, and they are indeed making quite hefty profits because of it. The services are both paid, and no doubt, a chunk of this money goes back to the developers. Obviously the services are profitable or Sony and MS wouldn't do them. To say that Nintendo is "too small" to do such a service makes absolutely no sense. Nintendo is too small to do something to make money? They have around ten billion dollars in the bank. I'm sure they could spend a couple million of that setting up a service that handily makes all that money back. Especially when you consider the nearly 50 million 3DS systems that have been sold.
Plus, PSN (I don't know about XBL Gold, I'll have to ask my girlfriend) also features discounts on countless other titles that you get for being a subscriber. So, say Shantae comes out and it's $14.99, but with my paid Club Nintendo Premium account, it's offered for $11.99, so I purchase it more quickly due to the discount.
Why is making all this money impossible for Nintendo to do?
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191966/playstation_plus_good_for_.php
This article notes one company that didn't get revenue, but it wasn't Sony's fault, it sounds like it was Square-Enix's. But yeah, this service basically benefits everyone.
How the hell is Nintendo "too small" for this? The damn service pays for itself.
Sounds like he had merged hardware in mind but he couldn't implement it this gen. It makes sense, since the Gamepad is essentially a handheld that's restricted to a home setting.
@Ryu_Niiyama
I don't expect the next console to feature the GamePad or the Wii moniker. I think these things will be seen negatively by Nintendo moving forward as the public image of both is pretty tarnished, and the GamePad really has not lived up to it's potential.
@Quorthon I think the worse thing they did was give up on the sports franchises they had developed in the SNES/N64 era in favor of depending on EA and EA Sports. I wish they would have kept going with Ken Griffy, NHL Stanley Cup, NBA Courtside, and put more effort into Play Action Football. I would rank letting Rare leave was second.
I do think there is a cultural issue. That having three separate regions that are so wildly out of sync with each other on promotions and releases hurts. It's silly to have games released in a single region and held hostage in another. Why withhold products that people are interested in purchasing, even if you only release it digitally? All it does is anger your fanbase because thanks to the internet we are well educated on what we are missing out on.
Fatal Frame is a great example of it. I am sure that there are people that would purchase that game digitally with little more than subtitles and text for menus and key signs. So why not do it and boost the library? If people want to buy Mother 3, put it on the Virtual Console and let people buy it.
I've said it before. I wish Nintendo would go back into their B and C libraries and put out $40 and $15-20 games with them. Do more experimental or episodic style games with the likes of StarTropics, Custom Robo, Excitebike, Starfy, Tomato Adventure, Magical Starsign, Golden Sun, Kid Icarus, Sin & Punishment, Punch Out!, F-Zero, and Pilotwings. For example, make a Pilotwings Club game for example that let you buy the parts you liked (Skydive, Plane, Hang Glider, Jet Pack) to be free to take lessons or free roam around a location for example.
I'd love it if the big N's next system was mostly focused on digital distribution, with Amiibo used for retail/physical. That is, Amiibo would "unlock" a digital game on your system; you could sell your Amiibo, which would then transfer the rights to that game copy to the purchaser when they scanned it on their system.
Next console has to be a completely fresh start
@Quorthon Miyamoto is actually bringing in fresh blood into Nintendo's development teams, and he started the studio called Garage, which is made up of only fresh blood because he wants new blood in Nintendo as he will be retiring sooner or later.
As for 3rd parties, Nintendo should focus on getting EXCLUSIVES. 3rd party mulitplats will get them nowhere as people are basically programmed to get those multiplats on Xbox/PS. They aren't going to magically jump ship and go to Nintendo over games that they can already get on Xbox/PS, so all they see is Nintendo's games that they frankly have no interest in.
Nintendo's problem is less so selling Call of Duty to Nintendo fans, but more so selling Nintendo to the Call of Duty fans (CoD is just an example game). Nintendo has to get the other gamers to come to their hardware, but their own games don't interest those gamers.
But enough about 3rd parties. Nintendo needs to fix their 1st party situation. It has become apparent with 3DS/Wii U that Nintendo CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT sufficiently support two systems at the same time anymore. Want proof? Just look at the 3DS's lineup for the 1st half of 2015. Horrible 1st party offerings because of Nintendo focusing on Wii U. They're pendulum swinging between 3DS and Wii U, and right now it's on Wii U. If it wasn't for the N3DS, sales would likely drop to pre-price cut levels (you know, when people said the 3DS was doomed). If you think the situation is bad now, wait until they have an HD handheld next gen. If they don't find a solution before then, their output will be EXTREMELY SLOW for BOTH systems, possibly enough to be their own undoing.
As to what the solution is, well... Nintendo really needs to unify both by making a hybrid, and needs to buy some studios. They don't have enough development teams to actively support their systems. Getting 3rd/2nd party exclusives also helps. Pull Bayonettas and Devils Thirds multiple times. Nintendo should have been actively funding Shadow of the Eternals and Mega Man Legends 3.
Then there is advertising. That needs fixed.
@Darknyht
Your post highlights another issue with the continuous flow of MZP games--we as fans end up forgetting much of what they do have. I know quite a bit about Nintendo from extensive reading (I'm generally hugely interested in gaming history), but have no idea what the hell Tomato Adventure is--and forgot to mention Golden Sun, Starfy, Custom Robo, and Magical Starsign myself when trying to list franchises they're neglecting.
The list of neglected games and franchises is simply too big and that's just sad. I'd pay for Fatal Frame in a heartbeat. Maybe Mother 3 (still haven't finished Earthbound, got distracted by something else at the time). I was looking forward to buying Disaster: Day of Crisis, which never released in the States.
Sony and MS are region-free. I looked at the back of one of my PS4 games recently and caught the icon that tells what region it's for--it said "ALL."
It's too bad it's been so long since Sega has been making the Sega Sports brand. In light of no EA or 2K Sports support, it would've at least been nice if Nintendo could have contracted the Sega Sports label as some kind of exclusive brand. The only thing they would be able to do would be NFL football because for some idiotic reason, the NFL contracted that exclusively to EA.
With the digital store-fronts, there is no reason they shouldn't be at least testing the waters with some of these titles. I can see if they're worried that a full retail release of Fatal Frame or Mother 3 might not be profitable, but at least put the damn things out digitally. The cost of doing that is ridiculously low, comparatively.
@Darknyht If Fatal Frame was released digitally, then Nintendo fans will repsond like this: Why isn't there a physical release? No physical, no buy!
You know, the way they keep responding to Ace Attorney's digital-only release?
@Quorthon
You do realize that unlike Microsoft, and to a lesser extent, Sony, Nintendo have two different platforms to support, right? The only reason a series like Zelda is "annual" is your counting both handheld and home console releases. Obviously they can't stagger releases between them while keeping both install bases satisfied.
As far as over-using characters go, I have to agree somewhat. I don't think its bad that they reuse their characters like they do, but they need to space out the releases more. Believe it or not I think people DO get tired of seeing Mario all over, I certainly did when I was younger, it just felt boring and predictable after a while.
I do disagree about the GC controller though, never had any trouble with it, with the exception of one game. That being MGS: The Twin Snakes, and only because I'm just so used to the dualshock layout with that series, so it took a bit of getting used to. Of course, I'm also one of those odd-balls who like using "the claw" with the PSP, so I might just be less finicky than the average Joe.
@IceClimbers
I saw a lot of bolded text and my first thought was "well, this guy is ready to go. Better get my argument hat ready!" Rest assured, though, I read your post!
Good sir, I quite handily agree with the bulk of your post. Indeed, they need to buy studios, make mergers, and start getting some 3rd party exclusives--at the very least, console exclusives hence my earlier point about getting PC and mobile games to the Wii U and/or 3DS.
I did forget about Garage and Miyamoto's focus on that team being new blood--they're the guys making Splatoon if I'm not mistaken. This is a good thing that Miyamoto is doing, my point about him being rather long in the tooth comes from his standing. While he recognizes the importance of that new blood, he also over-shadowed it by clinging to the past with the MM3D announcement.
He's Nintendo's George Lucas. He'll come up with a terrible idea, and I think people are afraid to call him on it. Mario is his baby, and Mario appears too frequently. This is why I said he's both their star player and their biggest problem. Miyamoto brings great energy and creativity to gaming, but he is also saddled with an out-dated view of the gaming industry as a whole.
I think you have a great point that Nintendo seems incapable of supporting both systems at once, and yeah, the open desert of 2015 3DS releases not only highlights this, but also highlights how important it is for them to have 3rd party support to fill these voids.
For a long time, I was against Nintendo going third party or merging with someone, but the more I think about it, I think the best course of action for them might be to call up Sony and not so much merge, but create a binding partnership where Sony makes the home console and Nintendo makes the portable (while communicating with each other), and they equally support both platforms.
Your comment further highlights my point (that I've had to illustrate constantly on here) that Nintendo simply cannot "go it alone" or magically survive without 3rd party support.
In February of 2014, Iwata talked of "mergers and acquisitions" and did nothing about it. Instead, the industry watched Microsoft acquire the biggest indie studio in gaming. It's time for drastic measures and major changes.
@Quorthon Speaking of Sega, why on earth is Nintendo not working with them? Sega is sitting on an absolute goldmine of franchises, yet they keep mindlessly throwing Sonic games at a wall and hoping one of them sticks while wallowing in the shadow of their former glory. Why isn't Nintendo trying to get some of those franchises as exclusives to their system? Shenmue 3 as a Wii U exclusive? Imagine Bayo 2's reaction x1000. I also wouldn't mind seeing Nintendo developing a Sonic game. That's never happened before.
@Quorthon Oh yeah, I'm definitely not talking about reviving a ton of franchises, just key ones that people are clamoring for, that probably won't see the light of day. For example, and I may be the minority, I want Mega Man, X, and Legends games. Capcom and Nintendo seem to have a good thing going on with that franchise, with him being in Smash and all the eShop releases, so reviving that would be perfect for Nintendo. I'm for sure on board getting console exclusives for various PC/Mobile titles.
I keep forgetting about the discount aspect of the subscription services. I'd pay for a sub to get discounts on games for sure. I got Titanfall and Dead Rising 3 season passes at a good Gold discount this year as well as Metal Gear Solid and Tomb Raider for half off. That's not to mention all the games I got on Sony's various flash sales. You can't beat Lego Marvel for 8 bucks, ya know!
Zelda is my favorite all time franchise, so I'm a little biased, but I never mind seeing a new Zelda game. Wind Waker, I never finished because around the time of the original release as my GameCube got stolen, so the remake was the best thing that happened for me.
Personal preference for me, but I'd like a new Mario game in the style of 64. Galaxy is too fresh for me. outside of the billion other things with Mario on the packaging, I think it went into overkill with the "New" and "3D Land" series I did enjoy "World" however. Though it's massively better played in co-op! The best thing they could do with Mario is transition all of those auxiliary titles like golf, Strikers, Party and Kart into Smash variants and release only one per console with paid DLC through the life of the generation. That way it shines a light on the lesser known characters and hopefully helps to get them recognition for standalone games.
BTW, your Ice Climbers idea... I'm salivating at the thought. Haha
@IceClimbers Making a portion of the owners happy versus making everyone unhappy.... choices... (I sympathize with them as Nintendo's digital policies are quite frankly moronic and anti-consumer).
@Quorthon I am not surprised that Tomato Adventure is not well known. It was Japan only and resulted in the company being given permission to make what became Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. From what I've seen and read about it, the two are very similar in gameplay. Based on everything I've seen they basically skinned a Tomato Adventure sequel with Mario characters.
@Quorthon Agreed. With the whole "binding partnership" thing with Sony, I think that would be a great idea, but corporate issues would likely prevent it.
To be fair though, a lot of fans were asking for MM3D. Can't exactly blame them for making it.
Speaking of the 3DS in 2015, do you have any good guesses as to what they might release? So far they have, what, MM3D and STEAM in the first half and the inevitable Pokemon in the 2nd half. Anything else I feel like is a shot in the dark. We're not even sure the N3DS Xenoblade port will make its way out of Japan.
@Quorthon IDK about Nintendo and Sony merging or partnering, I think if they tried something like that the Japanese government would probably block the deal. They're both pretty big companies and if they ended up partnering up they would monopolize console gaming in Japan.
Nintendo and SEGA though, I'd like to see that. SEGA has some good IPs to work with, but they're being underutilized and I think Nintendo could improve on them. Most notably Sonic, the series has been constantly changing gameplay styles and I think Nintendo can probably create a solid foundation for the series.
@Bolt_Strike The Sammy side of Sega-Sammy would probably block a Nintendo/Sega merger.
Some folks seem to want a GameCube VC. I would rather them do a few HD remakes, ala Wind Waker HD, and maybe put the rest on the VC. I should think Nintendo would start to consolidate their past console libraries on Wii U/3DS and prep them to be available for next gen, in the form of HD remakes and/or VC ports.
@IceClimbers Xenoblade 3ds was shown off in the Austrailan Nintendo Direct, but I can't remember if it had a release date.
For a future Wii U (and possibly 3ds) update, it would be cool if you could open up say an SNES menu where it came up with a list of your SNES VC games that you could launch. The SNES menu would be a different app (the actual emulator) so when you download new VC games they would only be around 5mb or so.
The return of analogue triggers akin the the GC ones. Those were super nice and the new digital ones are ok but limiting.
A power level and framework that makes it easy for third parties to port their titles across. I know even when they are there they don't sell well, but if it were super easy then I'm sure we'd get more of them regardless of that, and then sales may pick up as a result. And that would be nice I think we can all agree.
Most of my wishes are software based though. The WiiU UI is not great. Wara Wara Plaza could be so much more, having things like the time and friends and such hidden away is awkward, they have two screens to work with yet somehow display less? And there's a whole plethora of studios I want to see them work with on second and first party titles. Revive a bunch of forgotten IPs (Kururin, Ice Climbers, Golden Sun, F-Zero etc) and keep up the new ones (Dillon, Hana Samurai, Dillon, The Wonderful 101, Dillon, Harmoknight etc).
Oh and I know it sounds silly but seriously, make the thing look nicer. Keep the compact size as much as possible, I can't even fit an XB1 under my TV and a PS4 will be a push but dammit they both look cool. Yeah it just sits under my TV, but if nothing else it helps sell it. Even the Wii had style with it's angled stand and clean lines.
@IceClimbers To be fair we can't say anything about 1st half of 2015 for 3DS, namely because there'll likely be some exclusive New 3DS titles at launch for the US of which they don't have 3rd parties to rely on like with the 3DS launch (Japan had the exclusive c-stick controls for Smash and no huge 3D lag for ORAS to carry the hype).
This may have been mentioned above, but this has shades of Sega with the Saturn written all over it!! Once Sega realized the Saturn failed, the PR dept kicked into overdrive with talk of the "next system". the problem with that is once it manifested itself through the media the whole industry developers, gamers etc ran for the hills and the Saturn was quickly abandoned! Of course Nintendo is working on a new system but if Iwata keeps talking about it then it will only get worse and worse for wii u! Retail developers are pretty much gone now anyway but sales of wii u will come to a halt if Nintendo keeps this up! IMO they should keep the cards a little closer to the chest! Lastly if they do launch a new system they better figure out a way to have the wii u eshop content available at launch!! This is important or Otherwise I will NOT buy the system day 1 and I'm sure many other Nintendo fans will agree!! And I still say the vc wii u service while slightly improved, is still terrible and can be sooo much more!!
@Grumblevolcano I imagine they might be using whatever Majora's Mask 3D's N3DS exclusive features are for the N3DS launch. I'm willing to bet Codename STEAM also has some N3DS exclusive feature too. That being said, I think we can expect some 3DS game that uses amiibo to be announced.
@joey302 The VC service is the least of Nintendo's worries.
Please, get rid of the gamepad.
@Cyberbotv2
1. Sony don't give these games out for free. The user pays a subscription.
2. Nintendo have literally billions in the bank. Why can they not invest some of that in such a service?
3. Nintendo have exactly the right userbase for a subscription service that included retro games.
It seems 'ridiculous' to me that they haven't done it
Tolerable battery life, not just in the gamepad but also the 3DS family of systems is the biggest flaw that needs rectification. I love the asymmetrical multiplayer with the gamepad and the sheer number of compatible controllers is excellent on Wii U, but I would like to see more connectivity between Nintendo's current home console and the current portable. While you are at it, we need Zelda 4 swords adventures with 3DS and Wii U connectivity.
On the software side of things, a new Miyamoto IP and making new games that the fans want like F-Zero, Metroid and Earthbound is essential. The VC service needs to be expanded because after so many years there is still slim pickings of great retro Nintendo games. Cross-play for games released on both systems and better implementation of Nintendo Network over all devices is also something I EXPECT to be in the next gen Ninty consoles.
Finally, PUT VC CONSOLE GAMES ON THE HOME CONSOLE ESHOP AND HANDHELD GAMES ON THE HANDHELD ESHOP!!!!!!!
Common sense, people.
How about you give the next home console a better name?
All these opinions, I think we should all complain that there hasn't been any mention of a Metroid game for this generation. Nintendo is too cautious and needs to stretch their legs. You have so many franchises and you should definitely make a game for every franchise for every generation. Produce and sell what you own, that's the point right. Nintendo has the sluggers, but they have to swing the bat to hit the ball, but you have to swing or nothing will happen. Maybe a walk. You gotta swing the bat.
All these opinions, I think we should all complain that there hasn't been any mention of a Metroid game for this generation. Nintendo is too cautious and needs to stretch their legs. You have so many franchises and you should definitely make a game for every franchise for every generation. Produce and sell what you own, that's the point right. Nintendo has the sluggers, but they have to swing the bat to hit the ball, but you have to swing or nothing will happen. Maybe a walk. You gotta swing the bat.
What I would like to see with Nintendo's next console:
-an actual Next-Gen console (PS4 and XBone's "Next-Gen" was out-of-date upon release)
-developer friendly, (gotta get that 3rd party happening)
-eshop containing every Nintendo game they can put on it from NES to WiiU (like to see this happen with WiiU eshop too)
-backwards compatability (at least for WiiU games)
-some gimmicks/innovations, like the gamepad, but not wholly relying/focusing on it (I think the gimmicks keep things fresh and interesting, unlike PS4 and XBone, which are just glorified, scaled down PC's)
-more features, like dvd/blu-ray player, some other apps would nice (like the recent Crunchyroll that's just came to WiiU).
-remasters of games that truly deserve to be remastered
-more of those great Nintendo quality games
-remove that region-locking
-cross-buy VC games, cross-platform and cross-gen
And just for dreaming's sake, acquire exclusive rights to all SEGA IPs and acquire all of Monolith's games.
And a side note for the 3DS and N3DS, same goes for their eshop, they sould have every portable game on there from GB to N3DS and least to SNES games on there as well (they could push it to N64 games).
Feel free to add, criticize or change whatever.
@IceClimbers I don't really see why.
@GreatPlayer:
wholeheartedly agree. You are so right! I would also like, that Nintendo would ditch the Wii U Gamepad with the LCD display and just stick with the Gamepad Pro and upgrade it.
@remlapgamer But there has been mention of in fact 2 new Metroid games, namely right at the end of E3 2014. Why they didn't add that news onto the end of the digital event or even one of the Treehouse streams is a complete mystery though. After all, we know just about as much info about these Metroid games as the new Star Fox (virtually nothing) and that's probably coming out Q3 2015.
@Grumblevolcano
We've seen footage of Starfox. All they said about Metroid was they were having discussions.
Nintendo discusses lots of things - N64/GC on Wii U VC, sorting their online Account system out, HD remakes (after discovering how easy they are with Wind Waker HD) - doesn't mean they do them.
Seems from looking through these comments there's a fair consensus around a few things - more power, third-party support, better online Accounts, improved VC with Crossbuy-type facility. There's abeen a few mentions of refining the Pro Controller with Analog Triggers.
None of this would come as much of a surprise really. Except in a certain building in Kyoto....
There's a really neat feature called 'internal storage' that they should probably work on.
@Quorthon : I was about to argue with you about the benefits of ps plus, but you made some very valid points. I may be looking at this situation with Nintendo glasses. It looks as if they have the money to have a service like Xbox live, and PS plus. I think you just sold me on getting a PS4 or Xbox One. It sounds as if they really cater to the gamer. Hmmmm....
@electrolite77 : I've changed my mind now after reading through all the comments. I agree with you.
@Cyberbotv2
Well, the PS4 is selling as well as it is for good reason. None of these consoles is perfect by any means, but in my opinion, the PS4 is probably the closest to a perfect console that Sony has ever come. Prior to this, I would place the SNES in that spot.
@IceClimbers
Per the "fans were asking for it" on MM3D, I'd like to note--and don't take this the wrong way--but fans often don't actually know what they want. There are a lot of gamers that seem to chase nostalgia and are eager to relive it in any way they can--you see this a lot in Super Metroid and Final Fantasy VII fans. A large number of them want the same experience remade and revisited and redone and rereleased over and over and over again in some desperate need to relive that first-time nostalgia over and over again.
I personally don't want this because it sours the actual nostalgia and "feeling" of the original. The Metroid franchise is a beautiful example of this--I was adamant that Metroid should only be a 2-D sidescroller and was intrigued but cautious about Metroid Prime when it was first revealed. Then I played it and realized that it was precisely the game I never knew I wanted.
The Prime trilogy was everything that Metroid strove to be--open worlds, deep exploration, player-driven narrative, player-driven pace, moody, atmospheric. It was perfection.
Sakamoto, though, spent ample time trying to relive Super Metroid over and over again and every time he did it--Fusion, Zero Mission, Other M, the results were more and more derivative and less and less creative. A subset of the fans kept begging for Super Metroid over and over again, and Sakamoto kept trying to make it, and every time he did, the franchise worsened. When we look at Other M, even ignoring the rampant sexism in it (where they took a female character and made her a useless damsel-in-distress in her own damn game), Other M is a pitiful experience that is obviously a lame derivative of Super Metroid that fans were begging for: It is 2-Dimensional in it's gameplay, both the depth and the common side-scrolling angles. It uses the same items and power-ups as Super Metroid, features many of the same bosses and characters--which in a science fiction universe makes zero sense. Honestly, does every planet in that galaxy have the exact same life forms? It brought back a character who'd been killed half a dozen times just to have him in there (Ridley). Environments "in the space station" were the same as Fusion and Zero Mission and Super before it. It is the worst-reviewed, most-reviled, most-controversial, most-hated, and one of the worst, if not the worst selling Metroid game. Granted, being a blatant linear clone of Super Metroid is only part of it--that disgusting sexism certainly didn't help things.
This is getting a little long-winded (this blog explains it better: http://overdeepgeek.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/why-fan-requests-get-ignored-and-usually-should-be/), but sometimes, companies and creative types would be better served by ignoring fan requests. Metroid Prime is the best-selling Metroid title (the trilogy is generally the best-selling of the franchise) outside of the very original NES game, which had almost no competition back in 1986. Metroid Prime was the perfect evolution of the franchise and the game we never knew we wanted, but sales backed it up--we did indeed want it.
Despite my general views on Reggie, he's made some good points, and he once pointed out that 100,000 signatures on a petition do not automatically mean 100,000 sales. Nintendo fans certainly talked about how much they wanted Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, and The Last Story, but they certainly didn't buy the games in numbers that backed up their internet fervor.
I admired Nintendo more for giving us games we didn't know we wanted--Yoshi's Island on the SNES, Super Mario RPG on the SNES, Metroid Prime, Animal Crossing, etc. I have little respect for any company that blindly caves to fan demand when it is unlikely to benefit them. MM3D will not inspire fence-sitters to buy the 3DS, and it will not particularly improve the dismal-looking 2015 for the system. The 3DS deserves better than a remake being sold for full price, and we're 4 years into this system, which will have three full-priced Zelda games in that time, two of which are remakes.
Fans may have good ideas now and then, and no doubt, some of us here do concerning what Nintendo should do to improve their standing in gaming--but not always. Nintendo's strongest era was when they delivered a console that gamers wanted (the SNES), but they delivered the software that they wanted. If that wasn't the strongest era, there wouldn't be so many begging Nintendo to relive it.
I had fond memories of Majora's Mask and Super Metroid. That fondness becomes damaged every time another empty derivative of Super arrives or every time another kid goes begging for Majora's Mask to be re-re-re-released. Some people may want it, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Right now, 2015 looks bad for the 3DS, and the best Nintendo seems to be able to do is a remake from 3 generations ago, a new game people are ignoring because of the remake, and a re-release of a game from last generation.
@MysticX So basically you want Nintendo abandon differentiating themselves from the "other guys".
If you want the other consoles so bad, then buy one? Nintendo will never follow the other two into competing on power. You forget you are not Nintendos largest demographic, families/children are. So they will never make a system that prices that demographic out of contention. Wii U's biggest launch hurdle was the $350 pricetag. As the price of the console has dropped, more systems have been sold because of perceived value changes with every new exclusive and every dollar the system falls. This idea that if Nintendo makes a $500+ system it will fly off the shelves is naivety at its best.
Ports are not skipping over the Wii U because of power, it just makes a convenient scapegoat. Nintendo can shoot for 2x the power of the flawed PS4/xBone design (Tablet CPU's are f'n joke in a "high-end" lolz, gaming console) and it still wont get the same 3rd party content. The only way Nintendo consoles will get content is if the install base is large enough. Guess what, higher prices don't sell more consoles, especially when the majority of the demographic that will pay $500+ for a gaming system thinks Nintendo games are for babies or its a fisher price console.
@Sir_JBizzle
Man, I've been wondering the exact same thing about Nintendo and Mega Man. They put so much hype around the character and VC releases, I was expecting an announcement of a Nintendo-funded exclusive series of 2 or 3 Mega Man games, like they did with Sonic.
But then, Capcom's lack of confidence in the franchise is what led to Inafune leaving and creating Mighty No. 9. Sometimes I just wish Nintendo would buy Capcom. I mean, if they're not going to merge with Sega or Sony.
Per your new "Mario 64" note, I always viewed the Mario Galaxy games as this, as they were built in a similar manner with self-contained stages and similar concepts. Although, and I didn't realize this until recently, but the Galaxy levels are more linear than those in Mario 64, so perhaps that's what you mean--more open and exploration-driven levels. Which I would have to admit I'd like to see. Games are way too linear these days, which is probably why I get so drawn into something like Far Cry 4 or Life Fantasy--I like the freedom to just enter that world and move through it on my own merits. I don't always find much fun in a game that is just "follow the checkpoints," unless that's part of the backbone of the game. For instance, I love the Gears of War franchise, but the co-op with my girlfriend and the greatly improved story writing over parts 2 and 3 really made the games memorable.
@element187
I'd like to make a note about "Nintendo differentiating" themselves. Being so different is not automatically good thing. And indeed, it's working out very badly for them with the Wii U, and not particularly great for the 3DS which has the worst 2015 line-up of this generation.
Nintendo needs to make hardware that is modern, in-line with other hardware, capable of using modern engines, and delivering expected features that modern gamers expect--solid online, Trophy/Achievement systems, profile-based buying and saves, an internal harddrive, and things like that.
But Nintendo should always remain creative on the gaming front. I made a note a couple posts ago that Nintendo's best era was the SNES because they delivered a console gamers wanted, but the games they wanted which was a recipe for success. All this weird "difference" of the Wii U hardly matters if they're just going to make virtually the same Mario Kart every generation and virtually the same Zelda every time. Did you see the GamePad use for the new Zelda so far? It's a map. That's all. It means the GamePad isn't necessary, and frankly, outside of being able to play off-TV, that is the top thing the GamePad is used for. A map.
The "Nintendo Difference" is frequently wonderful when it comes to software. It's a ridiculous crutch when it comes to hardware. If Nintendo was making these games for the PS4 or XBO, they would largely be no different, with the exception that they'd have more power to work with. Mario Kart would play exactly the same and have all the same features. The same with Donkey Kong Country and Smash Bros, where the only change would be in a couple non-gameplay modes.
When it comes to making hardware, Nintendo should definitely change to be more like the other guys because that's what modern gamers expect. When it comes to software, they only need to lower the number of titles released every year with Mario and Link on the cover.
@element187 No, i just think Nintendo should differentiate themselves in the games, which is why everybody buys Nintendo (If they want the other games, buy another console, right?), families and children are leaving Nintendo since motion-sensor games are out and phone/tablet games are in for the hardly-a-gamer crowd, they're too busy playing "Candy crush saga" or whatever (More advertised on Dutch TV than anything Nintendo-related, lol) to bother about Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft...
So if the soccer-moms and their kids are too busy with their tablets (Computers, not meds ), go for the people who can buy a console and games for it themselves, and the last thing they seem to want is a Fisher-price looking tablet/controller thing (Where DID that "for kids"-image come from? >_< ) that coincidentally pushes the manufacturing costs up, what else could that money be spent on? Oh, i know! faster components for the actual console!
And whether Tablet CPU's are a good idea or not, being the odd one out does make porting to Wii U far more expensive than from PS4 to XBOne, which is another factor on top of "Small install base" for developers to ignore WiiU, and Nintendo just can't develop enough games to keep both WiiU and 3DS afloat...
Drop the Wii branding...Return to the Super Nintendo days. I loved buying the "Super" branded games back in the day.
More power under the hood to appeal to 3rd parties.
SNES like controller.
Blu ray player maybe?
Ensure accounts aren't tied to the hardware.
Brand new 3D Mario/Metroid/Starfox on launch day.
Nintendo please take my money!
@Quorthon Other M of course only sold badly because of the sexism, if Samus' character was like in the other games then it probably would've sold much better. As for Xenoblade Chronicles, that game was exclusive to Gamestop (which is pretty much complete trash with its dodgy schemes, really can you get any lower than opening up new games and selling them as preowned with a much higher price?) so do you expect anything else than very poor sales.
@joey302 There were many factors in the downfall of Sega, and it was a completely different set of circumstances that led to their downfall. Where Sega and Nintendo are similar is that much like Sega with the Dreamcast, Nintendo is being forced to carry the load of software for the Wii U. The lineup is mostly First Party or Second Party contract work at this point with only a few third parties still putting anything on the system. They can manage to do it, but it means they need to invest in developers either through hires or acquisitions.
@Grumblevolcano
It's debatable on Other M. As a Metroid fanboy myself, I look for deep exploration, thick atmosphere, and player-driven narrative, as well as an adventure with a strong female protagonist who, let's face it, actively works on genociding the Zebesians and driving whole species (like the Metroids) to extinction. This is not a woman who would cry at the drop of a hat after seeing a foe she'd killed half a dozen times before cloned once again. This is a woman who doesn't have any qualms about making things dead, and for all that "baby baby baby" nonsense, it's like Sakamoto completely forgot that Samus never saw the Metroid hatchling as anything more than a scientific curiosity to be studied, not pitied as if she had some mommy issues with it. A better way to add depth to her character would have been to highlight guilt that the events of Other M and Fusion were all her fault for not killing the hatchling when she had the chance, because from it, the species was once again cloned into being a threat. Instead, they decided to reduce her to a disgusting, crying, wreck--a grotesquely negative stereotype of femininity that women are without value unless there's men there to define it. They might as well have had her convert to some religion that requires her to be completely covered in black cloth and know her place among Master's other wives.
Anyway...
Even without the absolutely atrocious sexism and dehumanizing aspects of Other M, I was disappointed with the game's blatantly linear progression, lack of exploration, and marginal atmosphere. The sexism was just kicking the franchise while it was down. Granted, it may have been the other way around--maybe the sexism lowered the franchise to unrespectable levels and the empty gameplay was kicking it while it was down.
The thing that amazes me is that it had any positive reviews at all, and from what I saw reading reviews, it was like reviewers didn't want to admit the game was as terrible as it was. Reviews were itemized lists of problems followed by a strangely high score that didn't fit. I certainly didn't want to admit it was as bad as it was--but I had to admit it. At the end, when the credits were rolling, I was fuming--practically enraged with just how bad the game was. And the more I reflected, the madder I got. It was like that episode of South Park where they talked about how they just sat there and watched their friend get raped--and they were talking about Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls. Except there were no jokes here, and the sexism made the rape reference unfunny.
On Xenoblade's dismal sales... I think it actually sold better in the US than in Japan, but still sold poorly compared to if this game had been, say, on the PS3. I think the problem, and I admit this sounds a little close to Conspiracy Theorist thinking, was Reggie. I think NOA wanted Xenoblade Chronicles to fail, which is why they dropped it via only a single retailer (who later jacked up prices), and with no fanfare or advertising. They didn't expect the game to sell and they didn't want it to. Reggie wanted the casual waggle audience for the Wii in the US, and that was painfully obvious for the entire generation.
Xenoblade Chronicles didn't fit the audience he thought defined the Wii in the States, so he did his best to bury it. They didn't want it to succeed because they didn't want to give fans a reason to think their efforts--like Operation Rainfall--were actually valid. And it worked. I don't think Op Rainfall worked as it was to get Nintendo to release three games in the US, of which, they released only one--barely. And the sales of all three of those games was disappointing.
@Kirk
I don't know how much of this you are going to read, but I found myself disgusted by your comment. First of all, Nintendo doesn't even have the manpower to make that kind of system in the next 16 years (If it was using today-technology without any new tech made). Against Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is the neophyte. Nintendo doesn't have the amount of people or the savvy technology people to design new systems at a low price. That is why they are always behind new gen tech. Nintendo also is focused on making sure their systems are kid safe. Additionally, Nintendo seeks to maintain a cheap price because they want access available to most people. Playstation and Xbox tend to be more expensive because of all the new tech gadgets that Nintendo can't afford to put in anyway.
The only reason the GameCube controller is still around is because so many people liked it. This causes Nintendo to have to figure out a way to keep it around. The concept of a Touchpad/Tablet Controller, or Gamepad as they call it, is actually one of the most intriguing that's for going forward. The concept of having a tablet attached to the system and potentially able to be detached in the future is phenomenal. And you have said that you were interested in the Gamepad as a new console attached to the system. You cannot expect Nintendo to limit themself to one controller style for the system and then also expect that single controller type to also be another full portable console. Even worse is your idea to have four active at once, the Wii U was built with the concept of two Gamepads and it just isn't feasible yet. The concept is great - the technology just doesn't exist yet. Especially on Nintendo's $.
You show that you are upset with Nintendo's view of not including Media such as DVDs and CD Players. Again, Nintendo is making a Video Game machine. Not a DVD Player or CD Player. Most people already have a computer anyway. Why should they invest in something that isnt their specialty?
You seem to miss a large majority of the reason why Nintendo has problems. You seem to just want Nintendo to be another Clone of Xbox or Playstation. I want to see the new VC games too. The problem is that it takes time even for those to be made. Nintendo is working on it. But with a small workforce, the amount that you "expect" from them for the next generation, especially from a Video game/Toy company and not an Electronics (Sony) or Computer Software (Microsoft) company, is unrealistic.
After the reply to Kirk above, I decided to make up my own list.
I would like to see the following on a new gen system, preferably on release without any patches (but that would be completely unrealistic).
First thing would be to make an account-based system for players to keep all their games around on. Make games transferable through the different systems they own and easily be able to replace or add new systems.
As addition to that idea, I would like to see at least some level of games available on both Handheld and Console for one price. VC games and possibly DL eShop games like Shovel Knight and Steamworld Dig come to mind here. It could possibly be a slight bit more expensive to buy (like 20% more maybe?), but also give an opportunity to "upgrade" after the initial purchase if it was initially declined.
Nintendo has pretty much lost the current 3rd Parties for good. Unless they want to find a company to make an exclusive (like Kingdom Hearts or Megaman), they should all be written off. I think Nintendo should instead start cultivating new 3rd Parties that they help out with Nintendo in mind. Companies that Nintendo doesn't need to watch the bottom line of, especially ones that were grown building on Nintendo systems, would help fill the games line-up.
Tying in with the previous concept a little, I would love to see Nintendo make something like a cross between Flipnote Studio, Miiverse, and Mario Maker. Basically, I would love to see a ROM Hack maker for multiple games. Even if it was subscription-based. Could you imagine a system where Nintendo made a shell game like Mario Maker and encouraged an online community to make their best levels and then publish them maybe? It would be an extremely cheap way of making a new game and would also allow players to get involved too. I honestly wouldnt mind a $20 Super Mario World Game if it included 100 new levels designed by other players (and the online community could vote and comment on each of the designed levels for Nintendo to view as well as others).
That is pretty much what I would like to see. Not "better graphics". First, Cross-buy, especially if it upgrades previous gen purchases. Second, cultivate exclusives. Either single games with big names or entire companies dedicated to Nintendo game systems. Third, include the players in game design. If the games are made by the players, they are more likely to be liked by those same players. And it saves a lot of money too.
@LordGeovanni
You seem to think that Nintendo is some sort of small garage company churning out consoles in their free time between data entry jobs. Nintendo is a massive corporation, and while they're not as big as MS or Sony, they are still very damn big. They're still an international, multi-billion dollar corporation with a few thousand employees. The reason Sony and MS are bigger is simply because they are more diverse--consumer electronics for Sony, and PC software for MS, primarily.
Nintendo has not traditionally led with weaker game consoles, and this is actually a recent development starting with the Wii and DS. In the past, Nintendo was the technological juggernaut that also excelled at delivering that massive tech at affordable prices. The NES was a new hardware revolution at it's time, the SNES, N64, and GameCube were all power-houses in their generations, with the GameCube edged out by the original Xbox. It's never been quite clear, but while the Xbox had more horsepower, the GameCube was more efficient and had better texture memory--the team behind Rogue Squadron was noted as saying the GameCube "could do anything the Xbox could."
Nintendo could have easily made a console this generation that is every bit as powerful and affordable as the XBO and PS4, but they chose not to, and it's coming back to bite them in the ass. Had they released PS4-equivalent power a year early, and with smarter design choices (account-based profile system, etc), it would have been the first next-gen console and the first place for a year to get next-gen games.
Instead, they released something roughly as powerful as the X360, just with 4 times the RAM and their own proprietary Blu-Ray style disks (developed in conjunction with Panasonic). To the gaming public as a whole, Nintendo released a last-gen console at the end of the generation. They fully have the ability to build advanced, current-level hardware, and have a long history of doing precisely that--even at times, developing hardware intended to leave the competition in the dust.
Remember, the Nintendo 64 is so-named as it was the only "true" 64-bit console released, against three 32-bit competitors (Playstation, Saturn, 3DO), and one bumbling halfway mark, the supposed 64-bit Jaguar (which was actually 2 32-bit processors working poorly together). Nintendo is a big fan of making advanced hardware and computing technology.
Beyond this, they share patents in working on an un-seen technology called HVD, a holographic versatile disk. Basically, it uses a kind of holographic technology to store data. A Blu-Ray disk can hold 50 GB of data, but a same-sized HVD can theoretically store 1 terabyte of data on a single disk. This has uses beyond just disks, however.
Nintendo has the man-power, they have the people, and they have the technological understanding. This is a company that built a stereoscopic 3-D game console in the 90's. While it failed, the technology actually worked, but the execution was very poor.
Let's not sell Nintendo short. If they wanted to make something to compete on the same level with the PS4 and XBO, they could have, and they probably should have. Indeed, I see no reason why they could not have made something more powerful a year earlier, since it's not like the PS4 or XBO are some kind of major technological hurdle. All three of these consoles use GPU's from AMD, and the PS4 and XBO are both built around basic PC-style architecture. If Sony was big enough to (finally) stop trying to develop fabled "super processors" (like the Cell in the PS3, and the Emotion Engine in the PS2), then Nintendo could have done the same.
Look at it this way: Nintendo spent ample resources working on and developing the GamePad, and they could've used those resources developing the console and refining what is now the Controller Pro. Anyone can build a gaming PC or a gaming rig these days--and it is frequently done. If Average Joe Gamer can build his own powerful gaming PC by himself and a bit of internet research, why couldn't Nintendo have a staff of 20 highly trained experts do the same thing, but put it in a console? The biggest part of developing the Wii U was arguably making the GamePad work and developing it's Operating System--a different OS from the 3DS. They spent resources developing two different Operating Systems on hardware with similar features!
@LordGeovanni
Also, on the VC games front, I don't think it takes all that much time to make them. Nintendo fully stated last generation that all VC games are emulated and running on built-in emulators. Aside from tacking on some Miiverse stuff, adding in controller mapping, and an upscaler so they look good on an HDTV, what the hell else is necessary?
Frankly, I'd just like them to finally combine everything from the Wii Ware and Wii VC shops into the Wii U eShop and commit those games to the same pricing, options, and ease of purchase as they are on the 3DS eShop, where the DSi Ware games were essentially automatically incorporated.
@LordGeovanni
Personally, I think there's a lot of ignorance in your reply to my comment. I mean the fact you don't think Nintendo could do the stuff I'm suggesting is just silly, that whole 16 year comment is ridiculous, and really is based on surely either total ignorance of Nintendo as a business entity or possibly some kind of FAN denial as a way to excuse its current shortcomings. There's a bunch of other things you seem to be missing or thinking about incorrectly imo but I don't think I need to address them all after that first example.
I don't actually want to see Nintendo be a clone of the other two guys but at this point I don't think there's really any other way to compete in the home console space (modern consoles are basically full-on multimedia home entertainment systems and that's just the way it is now), unless it goes off in an entirely different direction, which is likely just as risky as going toe to toe with the other guys imo.
Personally; I'd love to have a totally simple and pure new Nintendo gaming console experience again without all the superfluous convoluted crap, right back to something like the SNES (I actually miss the simple elegant purity of those early consoles), but how likely is that to succeed in today's market; unless maybe it's executed, positioned and marketed almost perfectly in every single way. I'm simply saying what I think the actual reality is going forward; if Nintendo wants to compete successfully.
@Quorthon
I actually agree with most of what you said. Please just see my view on a few of the differences. I am not really arguing or opposed, just would like to bring a few things up.
While Nintendo was a juggernaut on technology in the past, they were not competing against world-class powerhouses. Sony and Microsoft have many ways to make money. Some of us were just reminded of this with Sony in hot water after the movie they created, but they are in multiple different $ revenue streams at all times. Nintendo cant afford to take $ losses like Sony (Video Game department) and Microsoft (Xbox Department) can. There isn't some huge "Sugar Daddy" company to bail Nintendo out every year. This is why I feel that Nintendo shouldn't push for competing for the same level of graphics and power. But you are right. If Nintendo pushed everything they had, they could get something on that level. The gambit would probably not work at the current 3rd party hostilities in my opinion.
Another point is the difference between the HD jumps. Both Sony and Microsoft had difficulties when they moved to HD. Nintendo had the same difficulties, just later. I feel that those difficulties are what caused the Wii to have such a large amount of positive reaction around the world - Nintendo didn't have the "start-up" that the other had to do. This time, Nintendo has those start-ups and the competition hasn't. For Nintendo's positive, the competitors haven't increased the power & capabilities of the new-gen by much either.
VC is also something that Nintendo has to work on with each individual game. They cant just say "Copy game and place into converter". Nintendo has said this too. It also takes up man-hours to convert the game. I am not justifying a poor line-up, but I am saying that the time spent on the VC games is time not spent on other games.
@Kirk
I think your comment on my comment being ridiculous is insulting. Nintendo doesnt have the resources that Sony and Microsoft have in reference to manpower and $. Especially the $. Sony and Microsoft already develop several different ways to perform similar functions to what you suggest. For Nintendo to do that, they would need to start research into it just to begin. It isnt like Nintendo can go to Sony's department regarding HD TVs and start asking questions on how it is built. I also notice that you didnt mention that you were crossing your own ideas in your initial rant. You cannot limit a system to one controller style and additionally suggest 4 controllers while also expect all 4 controllers to operate as independent handheld systems. At least not with current gen tech. And yes, I feel that Nintendo would have to develop for 16 years (without any tech advancement) before making the "ideal" system that you expect next gen. You are requiring too much, especially ideas that require rewriting most of the concepts that Nintendo currently pushses for.
@LordGeovanni
You clearly don't understand the resources Nintendo has or the capabilities it has access to. No one is saying Nintendo has to become a Disney level movie studio, music producer, electronic giant or whatever but adding in something like basic multimedia playback for example isn't rocket science and it's not beyond Nintendo's capabilities or resources. Neither is any of the other stuff I'm suggesting.
Sure; some stuff like having 4 GamePads running at once, at an affordable price, is stretching things but that's why I don't think the new console should come too soon and it's also really just the idea scenario for this entire GamePad concept as I see it; so that's why I'm putting it out there that this is what I think Nintendo should aim for. Who knows; if Nintendo simply used the exact same GamePad tech next-gen it might at that point be cheap enough to own 4 at once, along with having more powerful hardware to run 4 at once, and having 4 at once would in itself differentiate the new console experience dramatically from the current Wii U experience. In my opinion not trying it next time around would be a massive fail and total waste of the truly stunning potential of the fully realised Wii U GamePad concept on Nintendo's part.
@Kirk
You keep asking for Multimedia playback and yet you also want Nintendo to not follow the other ducks. The whole reason why PlayStation did well for the PS2 was because of the DVD player. This is most certainly true, but that was because Sony wanted to push DVDs as well. If Nintendo isnt invested in DVDs, why should it play them? If Nintendo isnt invested in CDs why should it play them? It would drive the price of the system up and Nintendo wouldn't have anything to contribute to that piece of their system. It would be wasted and honestly could you imagine someone saying "Gee, I have an Xbox but the Nintendo MultiSystem is SO much better at CD playing that I NEED it"?
The only reason why the Xbox and PlayStations are Multimedia machines is simple, their companies are Multimedia companies. If people want CDs and DVD/Blu-Ray players they shouldn't expect a company that doesnt produce them to make a player for them.
Your statement about the 4 Gamepads was what I was looking for, however. 4 Gamepads at once is something that I would like to see too. The problem is its current implementation. The next gen could possibly do it, but I dont think that it would also be a stand-alone Handheld at the same time. And this is also with the time until the next generation considered. Other than that, I agree with you on the concept.
@Quorthon You make a good point about MM3D.
Small correction to one of your other comments, but all 3 of the Operation Rainfall games were eventually given a US release.
Anyway, one thing I'd like to point out is that the Wii U's architecture hurt it more than being weaker. Nintendo sticking with PowerPC instead of switching to x86 is essentially the modern-day equivalent to them sticking with cartridges instead of switching to discs back in the N64 days. 3rd parties don't want to develop or port to PowerPC architecture - x86 is easier for them, though the majority of 2014's AAA games also gives off the impression that x86 allows them to be lazy.
For next gen, Nintendo must switch to x86 if they want 3rd parties. If they stick with PowerPC, they can kiss 3rd party support goodbye. Only downside to switching to x86 is it basically means that Nintendo will have to forgo backwards compatibility.
Oh, and one thing I'd like to note about Nintendo using weaker hardware since DS/Wii is that it seems to be Iwata's doing. Iwata is following Gunpei Yokoi's philosophy of using old tech in new ways. While that philosophy works fantastically for handhelds, it does not work for home consoles.
@IceClimbers
I know the games all got a US release; either I didn't spell it out very well or you missed it, but I noted that the stated goal of Operation Rainfall was to get Nintendo to publish these games and bring them over, and in that, Nintendo only "somewhat" did it with Xenoblade Chronicles, and they did not even bother with the other two, which XSEED picked up thinking the audience would follow through. In this way, I consider Op Rainfall a failure because it did not succeed in it's specific goals, and in the end, the support didn't turn Last Story and Pandora's Tower into successes.
NOA was so lazy in Xenoblade Chronicles, they just released the European Version, which, to be fair, I think it worked out better with British English voices than if it had been translated into Murican English.
Oh, and you absolutely nailed the point on older tech for handhelds. Nintendo was traditionally a leader in consoles, and they need to go back to that. It also agrees with my sentiment that Iwata is thinking too "old school Nintendo" rather than coming up with modern strategies to face an ever-changing (and drastically different) modern gaming industry.
Yokoi's concepts worked brilliantly for the Game Boy, but it would always do us well to remember that he also designed the Virtual Boy, and rumors have persisted that he was "asked" to retire after it's embarrassing failure. I think he may have actually retired out of shame on his own, though. He then designed the Bandai Wonderswan.
@LordGeovanni
It doesn't really matter why these Sony and Microsoft consoles are full-on multimedia machines at this point. They simply are; and if any other company wants to seriously compete in the home console space at this point I think its console has to be a multimedia machine too, otherwise it's just setting itself up for failure imo. These multimedia consoles are clearly what the majority of consumers want and are now buying, and it's a case of either Nintendo competes or as we have seen with the Wii U, it flops.
I'm not saying Nintendo should include these multimedia features simply because I personally want them, which I do, but because I don't think it or any company can really be successful in the home console space anymore without them. Certainly; I don't think Nintendo can beat Microsoft or Sony with its current half-way approach; that is for sure.
@Kirk
The PlayStation 2 sold so well because of the DVD capabilities for sure. But there was another major point - It was the 'cheapest' DVD player around. Otherwise I feel as though the PS2 might have lost against the GameCube. And then the full "Multimedia" systems, PS3 and XBox360 seems to have had a problem with the Wii dominating and all. Even with time passing and priorities changing, I still feel that Nintendo would make a mistake to go make a Multimedia system.
Another thing to consider is that I too would like a system that plays CDs and DVDs. But just because it is possible doesnt mean it is necessary. As it is, Nintendo is in the prime location to be bought and played alongside the Xbox or PS4. Even better, it works perfect alongside the PC. It isnt like Nintendo says that you cant play with their system if you buy a PS4 or Xbox.
@LordGeovanni
I'm sorry but you seem to have posted a list of excuses based on Nintendo having a small workforce and limited funds. This will not wash when we're discussing a company that has 10.5 billion dollars (6.7 billion pounds) in the bank.
@LordGeovanni
At this point I just don't see what other way Nintendo's next console can realistically go than to also be a full-on multimedia system like the competition; if it actually wants to seriously compete in marketplace next-gen.
It's maybe a sad truth of the industry but I think multimedia entertainment is the future of home consoles; if you actually want to be one of the main players in the market; as opposed to some niche developer of niche gaming systems or whatever; which is an option but Nintendo isn't really committed to going in that direction either that I can see.
At the moment Nintendo is stuck somewhere between an old school dedicated gaming console and full-on multimedia console, which imo is kinda the worst place to be because it's neither here nor there so it's ultimately not fully satisfying either itch, and that clearly isn't working for the majority of consumers.
Regarding the next-gen GamePad solution: I don't think they would have to necessarily be proper portable consoles in and of themselves, it's an idea, but if Nintendo extends the wireless reach then you could easily play them anywhere in the house and that makes them basically home based portable consoles in their own right; especially since you can already play so many games directly on the screen. It's just not practical to use them beyond the living room for the most part in the current version, sadly, which is imo just another example of an unrealised potentially huge USP of these things.
@LordGeovanni
I don't think the jump to HD was much of a problem as the industry feeling general growing pains with a new generation--which is common-place. Maybe it's because last generation was so unprecedented in it's success and longevity that we forget, but the generation before it started out just as rocky--and the rockiness of that start included a new upstart console (Xbox) and an old stalwart (Sega) being ousted.
That Nintendo still had such troubles moving into HD is something that bothers me. They should've known better and been better prepared, especially since they had the opportunity to study MS and Sony and the troubles they faced. Remember, I'm not saying they didn't face any, just that they were a predictable effect of a new generation, and Nintendo should've studied some of what they did to better prepare.
Hell, the final two years of the Wii were not very strong, and Nintendo was clearly just putting out generally simple and even lazy releases, not terribly massive or resource-gobbling titles. It's not like those resources were in 3DS development, since the two biggest titles they had the first year that was out were damn ports of N64 games.
Nintendo has been slower to get major titles to the Wii U than MS and Sony were with the X360 and PS3. The typical growing pain period is the first year leading up to the 1-year-anniversary. That one-year mark is when Gears of War, Elder Scrolls IV, and FEAR finally hit the X360. The 1-year mark is when Kid Icarus finally hit the 3DS and showed us what it could really do.
Nintendo missed that 1-year-mark with the Wii U, and unfortunately, that's when they most needed something powerful to move consoles as it's when the XBO and PS4 launched. While I disagree that they don't have the manpower to create a powerful console, as they clearly have that, I am starting to wonder if they have the manpower necessary to support these two platforms at once, especially without third party publishers and knowing that games these days take massively larger development teams.
This all also highlights the importance for Nintendo to start diversifying as a company, or to perhaps strengthen themselves as an entertainment brand. Are they a technology company or an entertainment company? They need to pick one and go further into that territory. Maybe with a film studio, maybe with a consumer electronics brand.
Per Sony losing money--they still on the end of a decade of near constant losses, heavily incurred by the PS3, which largely reversed fortunes made with the PS1 and PS2. The company is still in some pretty rough shape overall, and outside of the Playstation division and maybe movies, they've been losing ground to extremely tough competition everywhere else. I really like my PS4, but I can't help but wonder if Kaz Hirai is a little clouded in what he thinks is best for the company, since he went from father of the PS to CEO. None of these companies is invincible, and had the PS4 bombed initially instead of the XBO, we could've been sitting here talking about Sony exiting the industry. Sony was able to smartly salvage and turn around the PS3, but it's debatable if they would've survived another such disastrous console launch.
This stuff is why I think the industry as a whole needs to adopt a unified platform concept and dump these dedicated machines. Make all games scaleable to a certain level, and make them all playable on a single piece of hardware, where Sony, MS, and Nintendo (or other major companies like EA, Sega, Square-Enix, etc) can release games physically or in their own digital storefronts that are available on all the same hardware.
No more major generational hurdles, just general advancement. Console gaming available to more consumers, and the cost of entry becomes consumer-driven with competitive machines boasting similar basic hardware structure. Sort of like a combination of set-top boxes and DVD/Blu-Ray players now.
@Quorthon Ah, my mistake on the Xenoblade part.
While true that we should remember the Virtual Boy and its failure, it's also true that Nintendo continued to experiment with stereoscopic 3D even after the VB's embarrassing failure. The article above states how they wanted to include a sleep mode into the GBA SP but couldn't at the time. Well, they also wanted to include a stereoscopic 3D function in the GBA SP, but begrudgingly couldn't. They also tried 3D with Gamecube, but chose not to (the functionality is actually still there in every unit, just switched off. Luigi's Mansion is the only game to ever be used to take advantage of it). It wasn't until they tried using parallax barriers on the 3DS did they finally get it right. Even then though, the New 3DS' improved 3D shows how they still worked on it after the 3DS's release.
Anyway, perhaps to become a leader in home console tech again, they might need to look at "old school Nintendo" to see why they were a leader. Specifically the SNES era. Then, as you said, they need to find modern ways in a modern industry to become a leader.
On a side note though, Nintendo's slowness did come to their advantage when it came to certain trends - specifically DLC. Their slowness allowed them to see the good and bad about DLC and what to avoid doing. Of course, there's times when a slow and steady approach is the wiser choice, and there's times when it's not. Knowing when to not take that approach is something Nintendo is still learning.
@LordGeovanni
I would also like to make a point about the Wii "dominating" the HD/multimedia consoles.
The Wii dominated in sales for a while, but not for development or multimedia purposes, and in the end, it's early lead didn't pan out to very much. The generation is ending with the Wii at around 100 million in sales, and the X360 and PS3 at over 80 million each. With numbers that big, the Wii's lead was marginal at best and only in sales. On the other side of this, it was outsold by "multimedia boxes" by 60 million units.
This is clearly a smart direction for Nintendo to go, and while I long argued that it was pointless, I've encountered a surprising number of people who were disappointed that the Wii or Wii U didn't play DVDs or Blu-Rays. I recently retired my old 5-disk DVD (entertainment center) player and made the PS4 my entertainment center (kept the speakers from the DVD and plugged them into the receiver), on which I watch DVDs, Blu-Rays, and frequently Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon. I can and sometimes also watch these on the Wii U as well.
If we're going to clump the "multimedia boxes" together under that label, then the Wii lost out to them, far more than the Wii dominated either one in gaming sales. The limited power of the Wii also meant that it lost a lot of support on the gaming side and while it languished slowly for it's final two years before the Wii U launched, the X360 and PS3 are still receiving new games a year after the launch of their successors.
Overall, the multimedia boxes were more successful. Consumers selected multimedia boxes to a tune of 160+ million units compared to the stripped-down largely gaming-only box of the Wii.
"VC is also something that Nintendo has to work on with each individual game. They cant just say "Copy game and place into converter". Nintendo has said this too. It also takes up man-hours to convert the game. I am not justifying a poor line-up, but I am saying that the time spent on the VC games is time not spent on other games."
@LordGiovanni
PCs have been running entire catalogs of multiple generations of Nintendo games via simple copy and past emulation for a long time. So; why can't Nintendo simply implement a basic emulation mode on its next console that lets it literally do what these PC emulators are doing, which is just run ROM-type copies of all its retro console games?
Nintendo owns the rights to all the games, so it could simply write a few emulators and then copy all the games to ROM and let us download and play basically the original versions of these games on its new console. Just like every PC emulator out there does. It could even maybe add in some basic filter options and control customisation, just like every other emulator out there too.
Then...while we are able to enjoy entire libraries of fully playable NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii and Wii U games, which would keep us extremely happy and extremely busy, it could additionally work on slightly updated versions for certain chosen VC titles, like it is doing now, that we would be able to upgrade to when they become available. Kinda VC+ versions of standard VC titles; where the standard VC version of a NES game might cost say 99c and the updated version would be an extra 50c to upgrade.
There's ways to think around all these ideas to provide a far superior and all-round more satisfying solution imo...and there's ways to just make excuses for Nintendo's half-*ssed solutions all time.
@IceClimbers
Their long, strange trip through 3-D gaming is a rather fascinating bit of gaming history.
Ha, I hope they don't go too old school in seeing how they did things! I'd hate to see them turn back into the monster they were during the NES years--bad policies, terrible contract deals, screwing over 3rd parties on cartridges. Some of it was necessary to repair the "free for all" disaster of the 2nd Generation, but they took some of those policies too far.
I'd have to agree, look at how they did things with the SNES, and apply that to a careful analysis of how the modern industry works and what's changed.
@Quorthon
Great point regarding the Wii vs multimedia boxes. Multimedia consoles are the future of these machines and that has been the case since the original Playstation basically.
Not only did more people buy multimedia consoles vs whatever the Wii is considered but I know that as a Wii only owner I was ultimately very disappointed and frustrated with that system when the generation came to an end. Having this basically obsolete box sitting under my TV now, which I would still be using if it actually had proper CD/DVD/MP3 playback (I actually do use it for that via a hack but that's by my hand rather than Nintendo's), is additionally a very frustrating and unsatisfying modern console experience imo. This isn't like the days of the NES or SNES where having a bunch of great games would have been enough (along with the best graphics, hardware and controllers etc of those generations too I might add) because the Wii offered the potential for far more than that but ultimately fell far short of its true potential and imo it didn't even come close to those consoles in terms of purely its games library anyway. So overall it just wasn't that great a console imo.
If I could go back in time I think I'd just buy an Xbox 360 to be honest and I think that sums it up.
I feel exactly the same about the Wii U, which is why I've never bought one, and if the next Nintendo console is similar to the Wii or Wii U then I see me ignoring that system too to be honest. Which is exactly what none of us want; right.
@Kirk @Quorthon
Sorry for the wait, I had to start getting ready for work.
As is this situation currently, Nintendo is able to keep themself out of the "Xbox or PS" situation that most find themselves in because they stand apart so much. If Nintendo was seeking to eliminate both from the Living room, I would agree that DVD and CD usability would be needed. It isnt. Nintendo knows it is not worth the struggle. Instead, Nintendo keeps trying to bring "new and innovative" ideas. Yes, Nintendo fails at times, yes Nintendo gets it completely wrong at times, but no, Nintendo isnt completely failing.
Quorthon, you mention 160+ million "multimedia boxes", but is that the amount of Xbox360 + PS3? How many were both bought by the same person? Regardless of that answer, how many 'Still' bought a Wii? Additionally, how much $ did Sony and Microsoft make off them? I am pretty sure that Nintendo gets $ for each Wii sale but I dont think the others did. (This is using old memories, could be wrong). Nintendo would be investing too much to become a Multimedia device. And it would put them directly oppositional to Sony and Microsoft. Currently they have a troubled time fighting one another but if Nintendo wanted to throw themselves into that ring it would just cause Nintendo more pain and $. It is actually a better location for where they are now. Outside the "Newest Gen Tech with the biggest Explosions" and alongside that system.
And I have a serious problem with you, Kirk, suggesting that Nintendo should encourage ROM usage as it would just support the concept of piracy. Nintendo is making a legal method for playing their games. Just because "PC can do it (illegally)" doesnt matter. The price of it doesnt matter either. The point that it is available legally is the most crucial part. And even with the "drag and drop" conversion, there are still many times where the game isnt in the best form (such as that Tablet Donkey Kong games shown in a Reality TV show last year) or where there are crucial problems that develop due to not legally being supported. It isnt like you could call Nintendo to get help on why your illegal ROM Hack isnt working.
@LordGeovanni
By the way, regarding what you would want from Nintendo's next console, as you posted in comment #182...
If that is all Nintendo added/fixed for its next-gen home console then I can tell you right now, today, that its system would be a total flop. Only blindly loyal fanboys would be happy with that system because it's basically just the Wii U again with a few small things fixed/tweaked, which are all already pretty much standard features of the current-gen consoles from the competition, and once again we'd end up with just another console that the majority of consumers out there simply wouldn't give one sh*t about.
Nintendo simply cannot afford to only fix the issues it already has with with the Wii U and maybe add another new underdeveloped gimmick if it wants to succeed next-gen. That's exactly what it did with the Wii U coming from the Wii the previous gen and the Wii U is obviously a flop. Next-gen I think Nintendo needs to fully compete head to head with the other consoles in basically every way as well as offer its own unique features and services on top of that imo; regardless of how big a challenge that is. That or maybe it really needs to properly go off in a totally different direction this time, whatever that might be (maybe its new health and wellbeing initiative is the answer although imo that might probably no longer be a Nintendo I'll be interested in), and something like the Wii U certainly isn't the totally different direction to the other consoles that I'm talking about. The Wii U is just the other consoles but less powerful, minus a few important features and with one or two gimmicks that most people clearly aren't interested in; so that's clearly not the model Nintendo wants to follow going forward.
Next time around, Nintendo needs to basically compete on the same level as Microsoft and Sony PLUS add its own unique spin on things or it will lose again imo.
It's harsh but I think that's what Nintendo has to do to properly compete and succeed next time around, if it decides to stay in this fight.
@LordGeovanni
LOL
It would obviously be official first party "ROMs" of these games, as the basic vanilla copies of the originals, that you download directly from Nintendo's own digital store.
How Nintendo would manage this "emulator style ROM" based solution in some kind of secure way is neither here nor there and not my issue; although I doubt it would be much different to how it handles its digital titles via its current Virtual Console and eShop system.
Id like the WiiU gamepad to be compatable but they need to increase the range so I can leave the room without loosing the connection.
3DS compatability so you can play on theTV/Gamepad, not sure how but a cable or wireless connection would be fine.
@LordGeovanni
I'm confident that Nintendo could hold their own in a full MS-vs-Sony-vs-Nintendo "war" as it were, so long as they have some new blood in management and ditch some of their older ideas. Being different for them is no longer working. The creativity that lead to successes like the SNES and NES and modern analog stick are not leading to industry-wide innovations anymore, and I find it curious to defend Nintendo "being different" or "going their own way" when it's clearly not working out for them anymore. Indeed, attempting to be so bizarrely different is doing far more harm than good.
It doesn't really matter how many people bought both an X360 and a PS3 and a Wii or any combination therein--at the end of the day, the multimedia boxes vastly outsold the non-multimedia box, to the tune of 60 million units. It's doubtful that 60 million people all bought multiple consoles. Not necessarily unlikely, but doubtful. With the exception of people like me (who are all-around gamers and collectors), there is no reason for the average consumer to buy both, especially since the highest-selling games tend to be multiplatform titles like sports games, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, GTA, etc.
It's also irrelevant how much money Nintendo, MS, or Sony made on their consoles, in part because that has nothing to do with the focus of this point, and in another part because there are too many variables where their console income comes into play. Again, MS and Sony both have strong paid services, MS also had advertisements on the X360 dashboard, they both had a lot more DLC than the Wii, which really had none, and there were more options for them to make revenue--as well as having far better third party support than the Wii. Per the price of the consoles themselves, production costs against sales, again, it doesn't matter per the point of them being media boxes.
At the end of the generation, the combined sales of the "multimedia boxes" squashed the Wii to the tune of 60 million in sales, and then again, the Wii itself was quite commonly used for Netflix.
Let's briefly examine how important it is for Nintendo to step it up on the multimedia front: First, society. We have the ability to watch and stream TV shows, movies, and music on our computers, on cable/dish boxes, though apps and add-ons to our TVs like set-top boxes, the Google Play thing, and the Amazon Fire TV stuff--and our phones. Our phones, man. We live in the damn future! Not to mention Smart TVs, some of which will soon have the option to access Playstation content without an actual Playstation.
I know, it may seem redundant for Nintendo to do this when everyone else is doing it, but that's the thing, then, isn't it? Why should Nintendo make themselves as the odd one out? The dream of the mid-90's has finally come to fruition--our game consoles have become our media hubs, our centerpoints of our living rooms. We can access all media and options right on there, through them. They're lacking in some ways, but the goal of machines like the ill-fated CD-i and 3DO are actually happening. Sony and Microsoft talked about "owning the living room" two generations ago, and now they can and do.
And yes, Nintendo needs to be a part of this, or they'll fall behind and look like a relic out of time. It was one part cowardice and one part desperation that caused Nintendo to make the Wii to avoid "direct competition" with MS and Sony, but the public perception remains the same--they are in competition, and they're losing. Yes, they found an audience MS and Sony didn't have, but a generation later, MS and Sony still don't have that audience, and now, neither does Nintendo as they are the casual mobile and Facebook audience.
Nintendo is a company who has a strange, small core audience--an audience that is arguably not very beneficial to them as they are too specialized as Nintendo fans. They don't appeal to non-gamers like they briefly did with the Wii, and they don't appeal to regular gamers who are buying the XBO and PS4 in droves, and they don't appeal to tech junkies who like their multimedia boxes for the multimedia over the gaming.
You keep defending them being different, but it's not working. The Wii U is selling slower than the GameCube and the Dreamcast, and that is a measurable fact. Clearly, they need to start playing "the game" the way MS and Sony do, and they need to improve upon it and come out all guns blazing in a way that A) only Nintendo can and B) MS and Sony have not considered. At the same time, they very much need to adopt the common and expected practices and policies that define the core experience of the Xbox and Playstation brands--recognizable controllers, account-based profiles, an Achievement/Trophy system, an optional paid service, a lot more media content, built-in harddrive, generation-relative hardware heft, etc.
They're too different, and it's simply not working. Yes, any time someone says Nintendo needs to change to be more like the competition, they are at least partially right. The public already sees them in that light, and in that light, they are consistently failing.
Defending failing policies when they are very clearly failing is making apologetics for failure. I do not want to see Nintendo fail, and I will never defend policies that are clearly creating it. None of us wants Nintendo to give up the soul that defines their software, but when it comes to competition and hardware, they either need to make drastic changes, or they need to stop making hardware.
@Quorthon
Regarding comment #206 above; exactly.
If Nintendo can't or doesn't want to compete directly with the other companies there's probably some way it could make a totally different and unique gaming console that is its own thing entirely but I certainly can't think of that system. Certainly I can't think of an ideal system that would fully satisfy all the core Nintendo fans and old school gamers like me while also appealing to and satisfying a whole lot of modern gamers at the same time, believe me I've tried, and I haven't seen anything to suggest Nintendo can either to be honest. I guess Nintendo could choose to make a console for its most hardcore fans only (whatever form that would take), which would probably make those people very happy indeed, but I don't think it would sell enough units to be a viable product to sustain modern day Nintendo at its current size. It would be genuinely tuff to make a gaming only console in this day and age that could manage that feat imo; unless it was maybe released alongside another main entertainment console or something, but then I don't want Nintendo splitting its resources even further. So to me, it's almost like Nintendo has no choice but to either directly compete with the big boys or get out of the race entirely, and by that I don't mean make a console that's basically just like the other consoles but less powerful with quite a few key features missing plus one or two gimmicks; unless it actually wants another flop on its hands.
people like to complain about the wii u only having 32 gb but the wii u don't need a lot of space as the games don't make you unstalll them like the xbox and ps 4 do and play from the disk so you don't need a lot of space on wii u and if yuu need more space plug in a hard drive allthough it has to be one that plugs into the mains
@JTTHEGAME
I still think it should have had far more inbuilt storage space than it has and I don't agree when people go on about just plugging in external devices as some kind of ideal solution. I personally don't like plugging in bulky and messy external crap to my consoles but I do want to be able to store lots of games without any hassle. If Wii U did have a 500GB hard drive built in like the other consoles I personally think it would have been even more satisfying on the Wii U than it is on those other consoles and actually a cap in its favour due to the generally smaller game sizes. Alas, it doesn't and it isn't anywhere near as satisfying as the other consoles in this regard as far as I'm concerned and I expect a lot of people would agree with me. In my opinion the Wii U should have had both a large amount of inbuilt storage by default and the option to plug in external hard drives to expand it even further. I just pray to God that Nintendo has the sense to do it like this in its next console.
Here's the key difference between the Wii U and the competition imo:
Neither the Xbox One nor PS4 are lacking any features that are basically considered either essential or standard in a console system by the majority of consumers in this day and age but the Wii U, despite having some unique features of its own, is.
I think a new console can have new features and technologies, indeed I think it should, just not at the expense of lots of the stuff everyone wants and expects by default. Any cool new feature has to be in addition to the standard stuff imo.
This is where the Wii U fails as far as I'm concerned and I think a lot of people (both consumers and publishers/developers) learned a harsh lesson after the similar situation with the Wii; to the point that they didn't fall for the same trick again on Wii U, hence it flopping as I type.
So my tip for Nintendo with its next console is to actually learn the lesson(s) here.
@Quorthon Indeed. One thing that hasn't been mentioned as much in this comments section is advertising. Both the Wii U and 3DS suffered because of poor advertising (or lack of any). Their "gimmicks" are simply impossible to advertise effectively, unlike the touch screen/dual screens of the DS and the motion controls of the Wii. With 3DS, Nintendo thankfully realized this quickly and stopped trying to advertise the 3D effect; with Wii U and it's gimmick, not so much.
For next gen, Nintendo needs to get their marketing down from the get go and make sure their message is clear. That part is essential.
Just make a console with a interface like Wii U's and as powerful as the competitions consoles I do love the gamepad, but probably make it a secondary to a normal pro style controller as well, and hopefully both those will get back some third party support again. It would be awesome to see a Zelda or Mario game with PS4/ X1 style hardware!
@Quorthon What Nintendo needs to actually work on is their advertising and marketing heck I can come up with tons of ideas on who to do it. Like advertise it on fox sports and have a football player like payton manning play it and explain its features and the games it has LOL. I also have this feeling that they are severely understaffed they are juggling between the 3DS and Wii U making games for those tow systems and trying to make VC games for both they are like person that is unprepared trying to get ready while doing other things at once. They should also get others like SEGA or at least buy Capcom to make games like mega man. If they aren't doing anything with mega man why not just make him join the Nintendo game roster?
@Kirk
I find it hilarious that you decided to nit-pick out my list and detail how horrible it is. I DID say that it was a list of things I would like to see. It is BY FAR not the only things that I would expect to be changed. For you to question such a basic concept makes me wonder who let you on the internet. I find it even more hilarious that you want Nintendo to increase the cost of producing the Wii U just because YOU dont like seeing an external HD attached. I mean, it isnt like other people might have trouble finding another $50 to pay for this "improvement" when at least some part of the consumer-base might not need it and would be forced to pay more while others are excluded entirely because they cant afford the extra $50. I am even disturbed by your reaction to me saying that ROMs on Computers are illegal. You laugh. Or at least typed LOL. If you dont think that Nintendo should have a right to their own created property, why are you even bothering with a Nintendo site?
@Quorthon
I find it fascinating that you take a record of Wii selling OVER 100 MILLION and say that it fails against Multimedia because TWO different, competing systems have a combined total higher. Nintendo outsold ALL other companies by 5-to-4. But this isnt significant to you. It CERTAINLY doesnt show that Multimedia isnt as powerful in this conversation. OBVIOUSLY everyone wanted a Multimedia source because if they REALLY didnt want one, the Wii would have sold more than at LEAST one of the competitors... Oh wait!
That is Ok, you bring up a good point about Nintendo being able to Tank BOTH Microsoft and Sony at the same time. It isn't like that happened before... Oh wait! GameCube happened. TONS of media coverage of Sony and Microsoft berating the Nintendo "Lunchbox" says hi...
Well, at least you give some good advice for Nintendo: "<B>Clearly, they need to start playing "the game" the way MS and Sony do, and they need to improve upon it and come out all guns blazing in a way that A) only Nintendo can and B) MS and Sony have not considered. At the same time, they very much need to adopt the common and expected practices and policies that define the core experience of the Xbox and Playstation brands--recognizable controllers, account-based profiles, an Achievement/Trophy system, an optional paid service, a lot more media content, built-in harddrive, generation-relative hardware heft, etc.</B>"
Let me summarize, Nintendo! Stop being you and be them. And be them BETTER than they are themselves. Obviously that is the answer. You need to be MORE Sony than Sony is. Get RID of the Off-TV Play, Get RID of the Miiverse, Get RID of the IPs that are not on PlayStation or Xbox, they are NOT what gamers want obviously.
@Quorthon, @Kirk,
Do you guys even bother to read your own thoughts at times? We can all agree that Nintendo should make some changes, but the best part of Nintendo is the low chance that they will accept a person on the internet's plans and concepts. I can rest quite easy knowing that Nintendo will do much better than the ideas that you have suggested. Especially because I know Nintendo wouldn't do such silly concepts. You would destroy the company within 5 years.
@LordGeovanni
I honestly don't think you quite understand the stuff you're talking about.
Take my comments about the external vx internal hard drive for example. You seem to think that me asking for more internal storage and giving some reasons why I don't want an external only solution was only done pertaining to my own person niggles. That's simply not the case. Most people buying these modern consoles, indeed virtually all electronic devices these days, clearly want more internal storage. That's just a given at this point in time. I'm just giving you an additional reason why I personally don't want to have to plug some extra crap into my Wii U but I really shouldn't have to give you any additional reasons. You should be able to comprehend yourself why it's just a better idea all-round for most consumers to include more internal storage at this point in time; but clearly you don't.
I expect you do want Nintendo to do more than just the stuff you said but what I did with my initial answer was try to suggest basically everything I think needs to be addressed with its next console, just in case someone at Nintendo is actually reading these websites (or even just in case the general sentiment gets back to them in one way or another), and all you did was tell them stuff they are almost certainly already aware of and are most likely working on as we type, but that won't help its next console succeed in the slightest imo (because that stuff is basically obvious at this point and everyone is either already doing it or will be by next-gen). So I called out your suggestions of what Nintendo needs to address as being ultimately useless; and I did so in direct response to you calling out my suggestions as somehow being detrimental to Nintendo should it decide to go with those. Who do you think, if we are looking at this beyond just posting worthless subjective comments on websites, gave suggestions that might actually have some real meaningful value and worth in the bigger picture and in the long run? Basically; my comment actually had a genuine motivation behind making it in the first place, which was to try and actually suggest how Nintendo can make its next consoles successful, as opposed to just fix some issues that are blatantly obvious.
If you actually imagine Nintendo will do much better than the ideas I have suggested then it shows how little you actually get what is going on at the company now imo, what has happened there in the past and what is likely to happen in the future. I'll tell you this much for free; my ideas for what both the Wii and Wii U could have been, which I came up with before either of them were released, were certainly better than what Nintendo ultimately came out with and at the very least my suggested tweaks to the Wii U would make it a superior machine in almost every way. That's basically fact as far as I'm concerned.
Regarding the whole ROM thing... It's like you're not even having the same conversation here. I have not and am not suggesting in any way, shape or form that this relates to piracy in any way whatsoever, or that Nintendo should not have the right to its own properties, or whatever you seem to think I'm suggesting. That's you who brought that into the mix; presumably because of a complete misunderstanding of what I'm talking about.
It's more than just a console that Nintendo needs to rethink. Going from the poor sales of not only the Wii U but the huge drop off of consumers returning for more MK and SSB this generation shows that few people actually care for Mario ( or rather Nintendo games ) anymore.
The Wii excelled because it had a gimmick, was cheaper and more importantly it became the second console for many x360 and PS3 owners.
This time around mainly Nintendo fans bought the Wii U and looking at its sales there aren't many.
A large part of the Wii U's failure is Nintendo's image. To it's fans Nintendo is a great platform for adults and kids alike.
To everyone else it is a kiddies console that no kid in the UK would admit to owning and every damn game is Mario.
The market has evolved but Nintendo is stuck in the past. As long as Iwata is president I don't see anything changing.
I don't care how long the company has been going or how much money they have in the bank. That doesn't make it invincible.
Nintendo needs to reinvent themselves and that requires far more than a powerful multimedia console.
As it stands there just aren't that many Nintendo fans that want a wii u. To keep the Wii U for more than two more years is just not possible.
As the other consoles get cheaper - I mean I have seen them for £299.00 this year, and the games begin to flow, things for the Wii u will get worst. This was it's best year with its biggest system sellers and compare to the competition it got slaughtered.
Nintendo is talking next gen because they know the Wii u is drowning in their mistakes.
@LordGeovanni
Now you're just making strawman arguments, which indicates that you are extremely frustrated and not willing to address actual comments. Strawman arguments are made so that one can "win" a conversation by merely stating against things that were never stated. I never said Nintendo needs to, for instance, get rid of the Miiverse. I also never said Nintendo should "get rid" of any IPs. If anything, Nintendo needs vastly more, and they have too many IPs built around a single character and franchise, and that being Mario--a single character with more IPs than there are actual Halo games. Having 3~6 titles per year, every year, all with Mario on the cover does not make Nintendo look diverse, nor does it make them look like they're trying to appeal to anyone but a small core fanbase. Those games sold well on the Wii because the Wii sold better and they were very frequently packed in. And as I explained elsewhere on this site a while ago, Mario is the lazy go-to easy suggestion too many store employees give to customers because they don't want to actually help the customer.
And yes, the combined sales of the "multimedia boxes" can be counted to show they they "won" over the Wii, because despite being split between two brands, they vastly outsold the Wii. This is clearly something that people want, and even Nintendo partially realized this as the Wii U came pre-loaded with Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and YouTube and now also includes Crunchyroll--not to mention that the Wii U GamePad was heavily promoted as a TV remote along with the TVii service.
You're arguing against multimedia boxes while defending Nintendo's own multimedia box which is simply half-assed compared to the others as it doesn't play Blu-Ray, DVD, or CDs, and it's lacking movies in it's online shop, which both MS and Sony have. On top of that, Nintendo failed to even completely roll out their TVii service after talking about how great it was going to be.
It's bizarre that you assume Nintendo would magically have better ideas than these--which work handily for MS and Sony, not to mention, Apple, Google, and Amazon, but that they will magically have some kind of superior ideas when we're looking at a console loaded with the exact opposite. That's a little like looking at three boats, and defending the sinking one by saying the designer shouldn't adopt what works on the two floating boats, and that the designer of the sinking boat will have better ideas next time.
By the way, the GameCube "failed" because Nintendo botched key parts of it--the controller was considered weird by many people, and indeed, despite it's comfort, it's bizarre squishy shoulder buttons were not successful, nor have they been maintained, and the face buttons were unreliable for most game genres, which is why Nintendo went back to the SNES style. The other problem the GameCube faced was the N64--a console that barely had any releases it's last two years on the market and which notably soured third parties and gamers on Nintendo. The N64 was, for all intents and purposes, dead two years before the GameCube launched, while the PS1 was still alive and kicking two years after the PS2 released. Poor performance of the N64 carried over to the GameCube which, eventually, did improve with 3rd parties and was an overall better console. But, the damage had been done, so despite the GameCube obviously being a better console than the N64, it performed worse because consumers had simply lost interest in Nintendo.
Nintendo modernizing their consoles to give gamers what they have come to expect in modern gaming is not Nintendo giving up on themselves, which you seem to fail to understand. Remember, the PS3 didn't launch with its Trophy system built-in, this was an update that came later (which is why Trophies unlock somewhat awkwardly on first-gen PS3 games), but Sony was big enough to recognize that this was a feature gamers enjoy. Sony wasn't too proud to give gamers something they wanted and were starting to expect (as Steam also has an Achievement system). You really prefer a console that gives you half of what MS and Sony deliver, just because it's Nintendo? I shouldn't have to buy a "companion" console to my Nintendo console. I should be able to use my Nintendo console as my core gaming device, you know, as I was able to do with my NES, SNES, and GameCube. If the best Nintendo can do is some kind of half-hearted "companion console," then they would be better served by going third party because it's cruel to make consumers pay extra for a console that can and will likely only be used for a few games.
Why are you against Nintendo modernizing? That's what I'd really like to know. Why would you want Nintendo to be less competitive? All the things you keep defending are the very reason the Wii U is failing. Why are you defending failing concepts? I never said Nintendo should dump the GamePad or off-TV play, only that I fully expect it will happen anyway because it is not selling and Nintendo will want to distance themselves from what will be perceived to be a failure or an embarrassment. So yes, unless they make it possible to connect your old GamePad to the next console, I fully expect it will not be backwards compatible, and it will not come with such a gaudy controller.
So why don't you want Nintendo to modernize? Why do you just assume that Nintendo adopting common elements of other consoles--multimedia uses, Blu-Ray players, Achievement/Trophy systems, account-based profiles, harddrives, movies in the digital shop, paid services, etc.--will somehow, magically, make Nintendo not Nintendo? Remember, for all the specialties in the Wii U hardware, Nintendo has largely failed to utilize them or to show why the GamePad matters or is important. And while off-TV play is nice, it's not really why we play console games. Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros are fun games, but let's face it, they aren't doing anything that couldn't be done on any other hardware. They don't need the Wii U, and neither did Donkey Kong Country, New Super Mario U, Pikmin 3 or several others. You appear to be adamant that Nintendo shouldn't modernize and that they shouldn't give up on hardware or concepts that they aren't even utilizing.
By the way, when you wan to try to talk up which console was a bigger success--the Wii, or the X360 and PS3, keep in mind that according to MobyGames, the X360 and PS3 have around just over 2600 games on each platform. The Wii has a thousand fewer games than the consoles it individually outsold. It's pretty safe to say that, with the exception of individual sales only, the X360 and PS3 were handily more successful consoles. Also, the X360 and PS3 are continuing to see surprisingly strong support even a year after the launch of their successors--which is expected in successful consoles, while the Wii was practically dead a year before the Wii U launched.
@IceClimbers
Nintendo has always been monumentally terrible at advertising and promotions with one exception--their "Wii would like to play" ads targeting the non-gamer audience were brilliant, succinct, and they aired frequently. This worked immensely in their favor.
Outside of that, their advertising has historically been dreadful, and when it does happen, it is seen sparsely or rarely. I nearly face-palmed my head off when I saw that Iwata is cutting marketing spending. Great job, Iwata, tell even fewer people about your console that isn't selling.
@Kirk
I agree with you. Nintendo needs to either start playing the game and competing with MS and Sony directly, or they need to get out of hardware development. I'm willing to bet that if Nintendo said, "we're out of the console market, but will only develop for one of you guys," they'd have Sony and MS absolutely scrambling to get them on-board. They'd instantly be the hottest commodity in gaming, instead of the room-temperature commodity they've got going now.
I think the Wii U is evidence that overly specialized hardware is not the way to go. It makes 3rd parties wary and unlikely to support the machine, and without their support and revenue, both sales of the hardware and Nintendo's income drops off.
According to MobyGames, the GameCube had 568 games, while the N64 had only 332, despite around 15 million more consoles sold. Making modern hardware that is expected by 3rd parties clearly brings more third party support, and there is little doubt, Nintendo's overall revenue was probably better on the GameCube than the N64. Personally, I know I played my GameCube far longer than I ever played my N64 simply because it had so many more games.
But the GameCube struggled for similar reasons that the Dreamcast ultimately bombed--the previous console had soured the public on the brand. If Nintendo wants the next console to sell at all, they need to stop making any mention of it, and they need to start finding ways to make the Wii U more appealing. Lower the price, add-in an Achievement system, beef-up the multimedia aspect, include bigger storage space, and actively work to get more 3rd party support, even if it means funding quite a few more games like Bayonetta and Devil's Third.
As I've said before, Sony worked their ass off to salvage the initially trainwrecked PS3. There was still a lot of damage done to the brand and company, but they turned things around, and that's a big part of why the PS4 is such a success now.
@Quorthon They seem to have something with their "I can be Mii" campaign currently, but I've only seen it on Crunchyroll for 3DS games. Granted, I don't have cable and that is about the only place I see ads anymore outside of NFL and NHL games.
I am also not sure that an achievement system will save Nintendo, but I seriously doubt them opening the 101st online video/music store will. That is a nice checkbox to mark off, but few people buy their console because of Microsoft/Sony Video/Music. I have movies and TV shows I am essentially locked out of because I bought them on Xbox Video, and the only way I can watch them now is on my PC in the kitchen.
Nintendo provided access to Amazon, that area is covered. Let Amazon deal with the licensing headaches and the insanity of the MPAA/RIAA. Now, I would like to see more apps like Vudu appear, and the current crop of apps being fixed to perform properly (how hard is it to add multi-user support on Netflix).
Likewise, I will never use a gaming console as a DVD/Blu-Ray player again because doing that destroyed my PS2. I would rather spend the $50 to get a cheap throwaway player versus risking a $300+ console. Ultimately, that too is just a checkbox that MS and Sony feel need to be checked.
I think the best solution is also the hardest. Compelling games. They need games and they need them badly. They need to do what Sega was doing with the Dreamcast but failed due to a lack of cash. Go crazy with the insane game concepts, and bring in the hired second and third parties necessary to keep a solid release schedule.
There may also be some merit in what you have suggested with Mario. Limit him to the 3D Land/World series. Bring back StarTropics, Battalion Wars, Excitebike/truck, Custom Robo, Earthbound/Mother, Pilotwings, Sin & Punishment, Doshin the Giant, Endless Blue and F-Zero. Leave the big guns to be semi-annual or yearly events and let these guys return to fill the eShop and retail space. Make them bargain games like Captain Toad, but at least get them out there.
@LordGeovanni
Some very good points I think. Nintendo can easily make a copycat system but in the short of it Sony and Microsoft ARE substantially larger than Nintendo. Personally I'd rather Nintendo work on a system that completely disrupts the industry and again expands the overall audience of games consoles.
@Darknyht
I don't think an Achievement system will save Nintendo, I only highlight that it is an expected norm for modern games and gaming, and this is one of those cases where Nintendo should really do what MS, Sony, and Valve are all doing that so many gamers are familiar with. MS has done some impressive things with Achievements on the XBO. I recently learned that many Achievements have images associated with them, that can then be set as the background for the XBO menu, and that's pretty cool. For instance, it would be another level of help in the 3rd party sales realm--someone may be more likely to buy a game based on if it's going to add to their Gamerscore or Trophy collection. If Nintendo has a similar concept, then this removes one strike against them.
The DVD/Blu-Ray player may be a checkbox, but it's one consumers look for. Having worked at both Best Buy and GameStop in the past, I can tell you that one of the most common questions they ask about consoles is if they can play DVDs or Blu-Rays, and this can tip sales. It was always telling to see a disappointed look on a customers face when I had to tell them that no, the Wii or Wii U do not play disk movies. So, it's more than a check-box. It's something consumers actively care about.
I don't have much else to add on the over-use of Mario, as I think I covered it. For as much as I see Nintendo fans defend 3~6 games per year with Mario plastered on the cover, I'm willing to bet that most of them would easily trade most of those throw-away spin-off games for something else if it was offered--be it Mother/Earthbound, Punch-Out, F-Zero, Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, Battalion Wars, Star Tropics, Fatal Frame, Disaster, Geist, Eternal Darkness, Doshin the Giant, Wave Race, Excite Bike/Truck/Bots, Pilotwings, etc.
Releasing so much unnecessary Mario-themed stuff detracts from these games when they do arrive. I think Nintendo just needs a year with almost no mention of Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon at all. I'm willing to bet it'd be the best year Nintendo fans never knew they wanted. I agree with you on the drastic, even insane new concepts. But they won't work so long as Nintendo fans and general gamers are constantly looking at or bombarded with the next annual full-priced Zelda release or next three games with Mario slapped on the cover.
@originaljohn
That "disruption" system (the Wii) is seen as a fad by the very consumers that gave it such high sales, and it faded quickly over it's last 2~3 years, ultimately leading to general disinterest as the Wii U was revealed.
What you're asking for is Nintendo to release a faddish popular console that ignores the more supportive "general gamer" audience to be followed by another Wii U. You're asking for a cyclical nature of high-seller, low-seller that would, over time, work to completely erode consumer and 3rd party confidence.
That is a losing scenario no matter how you look at it, and it would only serve to put Nintendo on a cycle of wildly varying revenue rather than stability, which becomes a high-risk scenario for financial collapse. They need to break this cycle, and the best way to do that is to suck it up and go face-to-face with their competitors.
Attempting to "go around" the competition only makes the company look weak and cowardly, and it targets audiences that do not create steady, prolonged success. Microsoft and Sony have built platforms and brand recognition that can be sustained with longevity. What you're suggesting is the exact opposite, and is precisely the kind of thinking that put them in the dismal situation they are in right now.
Keep in mind, even the otherwise insurmountable 3DS has far fewer known releases for 2015 than the Vita. Nintendo needs to break this cycle, not make it worse.
You talk about a console "expanding the audience," but seem to totally ignore that that expanded audience from the Wii and DS aren't around now. They're on mobile, or some of them expanded right to the Xbox or Playstation brands and found something they liked more because those platforms offered so much more. Expanding the audience sounded nice when it was the buzz phrase around the Wii, but as we can see, that didn't work out, and that audience didn't stick around. Why would you think it would magically be different if they made all those same mistakes again?
This is like the guy that tried to tell me that "nostalgia sells and all Nintendo needs is nostalgia" without bothering to explain why the Wii U isn't selling and the 3DS is selling well below the DS if that was true. If the expanded audience is such a good idea, then you need to explain why it didn't work this time, and where that expanded audience went when the Wii U rolled around. Obviously, these two things are not the solution. Nostalgia clearly doesn't sell hardware, and expanded audiences are a short-term win with no guarantee of maintaining them. Indeed, after that short-term win came a crushing failure.
@Quorthon and your the guy who is saying Nintendo should be Sony. I suppose you WANT online multiplayer locked behind a paid subscription.
@Hotfusion It's not so much that there are few Nintendo fans left, it's that the Nintendo fans are all perfectly content with Nintendo's other platform - the 3DS. Nintendo fans can get all of their favorite Nintendo games on that platform. It has a 2D Mario, a 3D Mario, a Mario Kart, soon to be THREE Zelda games, a Star Fox remake, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon, etc. Hell, it even has freaking Smash Bros! Thing is, all of those games are damn good ones too. Most of those Nintendo fans see no need to buy a Wii U. The numbers don't lie.
Any time a PS/Xbox fan would want a Nintendo fix, which system do you think they'll buy: Wii U or 3DS? The answer will almost always be the 3DS. It has an incredibly strong library and is far cheaper. Much like the GameCube era where many had a PS2/GBA, there's likely to be a decent amount that have a XB1 or PS4 and a 3DS.
@Quorthon Surely they had to have a strong marketing campaign for the NES to break into the US market. Overall though, their marketing pre-Wii is still a lot better than their current Wii U marketing. The Wii U marketing is flat out abysmal.
My hopeful side says that Nintendo cutting advertising costs means that they're stopping these useless internet ads (which seem to be the bulk of their advertising as shown by the numerous ones for Hyrule Warriors) that nobody sees due to adblock, and if they do see them, they're on gaming sites. Putting internet ads like that on gaming sites is pointless and a waste of money because the people who visit these sites already know about the game and don't need to be advertised to.
@Inkling The funny part is that the battery only fills about a third of the battery slot. You can buy third party batteries that last about 3 times as long time.
Make a party chat.... In and out of game. You got the gamecube adapter so why not just make VC Gamecube games available ? Most games that scream online play you choose to go local play only why not have both ? Make a system that comes with the appropriate amount of space included. The system should have both wifi and wired connections not this you have to by either or. I love Nintendo as well as any other company but seems nintendo cant hold its own alone these days. Good luck with future games for the current consoles. Good luck in the future with new hardware designs and such. Also do something about your youtube LP's and Reviews. Those guys are abandoning you mostly due to you claiming everything... Fix this next time around and you should be fine. Looking forward to 2015 games and directs !
@IceClimbers
When I said Nintendo fans I meant Fans of their home consoles.
Personally I don't own a 3DS or want one so your point made regarding the 3DS being the drug for other gamers that needs their Nintendo fix didn't occur to me.
If this is indeed the case (I am not saying it is or isn't) their whole strategy needs a major rethink beyond Fusion - based on what I think Fusion is - but without hard facts this is conjecture.
I don't have the figures but someone somewhere that did the science shows handheld gaming is in decline. It is natural for this to be the case based on other options like phones etc. As a games only company this needs addressing by Nintendo. How they go about this is for those employees who get paid the big bucks, not me.
Being the odd one out and trying to be different didn't work this time around with the Wii U.
My reasoning was the Wii U should have been positioned as the second console for xbox and PS owners. However many of these owners couldn't care less for Mario or any Nintendo game hence the poor sales of the console.
I believe games in the mould of Bayonetta, Devils third etc would have helped if there were around from the first year of the Wii U.
@originaljohn
Well, if you're just going to make up your own views on what you want me to say rather than paying attention to what I actually say, I suppose it's a waste of time trying to explain anything to you. Because I never said anything about what I want because it's irrelevant. I mentioned only what Nintendo should do to remain competitive.
@IceClimbers
No doubt they had to have some kind of solid marketing with the NES, especially after the disastrous collapse of the 2nd Generation. They marketed quite strongly, but not necessarily very well during the 4th (vs Genesis) Generation, but that's because Sega had forced them into a corner.
It's part of why I think this whole "let's work around the competition of Sony and MS" idea is so damaging for the company. It makes them weak and uncompetitive, and it pretty clearly puts Nintendo into a position of looking and being lazy to the point of not even trying, which is the constant feeling I've seen from them since the launch of the 3DS. There's this aloof attitude about them where they don't try to compete, they don't care about the industry, they expect that word-of-mouth is good enough, that wacky ideas sell themselves, and that the Wii U and 3DS sell fine just because the Wii and DS had high sales--which as we've seen, isn't true.
Again, this goes back to my old point that Nintendo's actual best era was the 16-bit era, the 4th Generation. This was the first time they were actually forced to compete and it drove them to some great heights. Sure, the SNES didn't have the sales of the NES or Wii, but it's library and the creativity from Nintendo were at arguably their highest point ever. They were forced to dump their silly old censorship policies, they were forced to be friendlier with 3rd parties, and they were forced to actually face a worthy opponent.
This was a point when Nintendo defined gaming, because they were front and center of the console war and their every move added to and frequently evolved the industry. The way the Xbox and Playstation brands define gaming now is the way Nintendo and Sega defined it then.
Suffice to say (a little long-winded maybe), when Nintendo was forced to be competitive, they were at their absolute best. Now, with all their lazy "let's see what we can do to not compete with anybody" attitude, they are speeding their way to irrelevance. And the Wii, despite it's sales, only made things worse, as the general feeling of the console carried over to the Wii U, which is languishing like an exiting last-gen system only two years into it's generation.
@Savino In my estimation, there is no way Nintendo is going to announce a new console with Zelda in the wings to give the Wii U sales one more push.
I'd wager an announcement in 2017 at the earliest, though given the right (horrible) conditions I could see them step it up to 2016.
I'm not sure if Nintendo could revive the impact of the Wii, bringing innovation that turns into profits. Here's three things Nintendo might want to consider for the future...
1. New Portable Handheld
Nintendo has had plenty of success with the 3DS models, and they can keep the profit coming by making a new system.
2. Traditional Nintendo Console
Of course Nintendo could design a new console, and underpowered, low-cost gaming system with innovative controls.
3. Next-Gen Console
A risky decision, but Nintendo could make a faster, more powerful console that could compete with the Xbox and Playstation's processing power. A traditional controller, something more like the Wii U Pro Controller. If Nintendo kept their first-party games coming and freeing up more space for third-party developers, Nintendo could get back into the game for real.
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