Research Firm's Black Friday Data Shows Wii U Lagging Behind in Sales

This is really disappointing. I hope the real numbers look better. But no matter how well Wii U sells this year, it will always be the winner in my books.

People still buy NSMB2?

Wow did smash even help out the system?

InB4 the return of DOOOOMED articles galore.

Muricans sure love their shooty boxes.

@drewb0203

I agree. One of the worst Mario games in recent memory.

Why the extremely sudden surge of interest in the Xbox One?

research shouldnt be defined as installing an app voluntarily that you tell it what you purchased. that makes it sound way too scientific.

that said i don't expect the wii u to set the world on fire ever. 10-15 years from now people will praise it, like they do the gamecube nowadays, when it becomes "cool" to appreciate the console. I'm pretty confident nintendo will still be around then. Sony and microsoft will as well, but with consoles? who knows...

Ok that feels way too crushing to be accurate, but perhaps some bias in the type of people rushing fpr Black Friday deals is showing. I'll wait till the end of the holiday period for better results before judging.

There wasn't much in-store advertising and marketing of the Wii U. My local Best Buy (Toronto, downtown) has their Wii U section in a back corner, mislabelled as "Wii" and with a single shelf of games.

@drewb0203 People who don't own a 3DS do, because they never played the game, for obvious reasons.

@Gorlokk there was a pretty deep price cut, and (much like after the wii u's first year) there are sufficient good games coming out/already out for the console that likely made people take the leap. I know that is why i finally picked up a ps4

@Gorlokk The Xbox One bundle was only $330 this weekend and the PS4 bundle was $400. Some people don't really have a preference of which console they get since they are both powerful and play pretty much the same games give or take a few exclusives. So clearly the Xbox One will sell more.

@gojiguy I love how Nintendo recently stated that they are going to cut back on their advertising... When you are right. There is virtually no advertising being done to the mass media. I love Nintendo but some of their business decisions are downright horrible.

@Gorlokk Probably because Black Friday is mostly a North American thin and the Xbox One has been doing better than the PS4 in North America in general for a while.

@ikki5 That's not true at all. The PS4 is the best-selling console in the US by a long shot.

Ugh... let's not panic just yet, let's wait till NPD numbers. It's just a shame that most people choose X1 with AC Unity wich is nothing but a hot mess/bug-fest disaster of videogame. But then, this is where the problem of Wii U and it's market appeal comes to ruin the day. 2 years after Wii U's launch and there's still some people confusing over what Wii U is, if it's an add-on for Wii or whatever. Most casual customers were probably like "Oh, here's this thing called... Wii U?? This is probably just a slightly enhanced version of Wii and we already have a Wii, plus this thing is $300 so nope" "Oh but look at this, an Xbox One! It says here it's a new generation of gaming and stuff, plus it's just $330! Yup definitely buying this" And I just want to cry because it's probably like that every damn Holiday season since Wii U's launch Good thing the Holiday season just started so here's hope the numbers of Wii U hardware continue to increase. Smash U will be just fine since literally every Wii U owner right will buy that game anyways.

@zeldagaymer93 Yeah, the 3DS is selling terribly in NA compared to their other handhelds, and the Wii U could be doing a whole lot better. Hopefully Nintendo forces their American unit to market their hardware and software better, or replace them with competent people.

@Gorlokk solid AAA 3rd party support plus an asking price that finally makes sense.

You know, until Nintendo gets off their high horse regarding 3rd parties, particularly western 3rd parties that actually matter, these are the kinds of results they can expect.

This makes no sence, the Xbone has not being doing well, why would it suddenly boost sales like crazy? I'm pretty sure an HD remake is not enough to do so.

@SavoirFaire fair points. Well taken.

I knew the Wii U would get dominated by XOne: a lot of places were just selling the Wii U at the standard price with no discount, which isn't going to interest the people looking for deals on Black Friday.

@HylianJowi

Have you seen the Xbox sales as of late? The Xbox One has been outselling the PS4 in sales for several weeks now. It is only a matter of time before it passes the PS4 in North America.

@shinokami

the Xbox isn't doing poorly any more, it's just Nintendo sadly.

No need to rush out and get a Wii U. Some deals were ok but nothing shocking and what deals there were will be around till Christmas. World wide sales between now and the end of December will be the more important number.

XB1 had bundles at $329 in stores like Kohl's that doesn't even sell electronics so I'm not surprised they did well. Seems like they made some good deals to saturate the holiday market

It's fairly obvious that Microsoft's prices were the deciding factor on this one. On Black Friday, everyone's degenerating into a murderous brute, and all the people participating in the war of sales care about is how much they save compared to regular prices. And frankly, X360/XBone had the largest cuts.

I wouldn't say Nintendo missed a chance here, though. But they need to step up their ad game a lot.

This does not surprise me at all sure im disappointed but Nintendo was very conceited thinking that maintaining the same price for the wii u over black Friday would encourage sales.
The wii u is overpriced despite amazing software. Ps4 Better hardware decent games x one dropped price for the holiday

Nintendo dropped the ball on this one

Xbox one is only $30 more expansive than Wii U?

@GreatPlayer

It was $330 for the console plus two Assasin's Creed games, and a $50 gift card. The WiiU was basically the regular $300 everywhere, so for many people the XBO would have been $20 cheaper after considering the gift card.

I assume after Black Friday it'll go back to it's usual $350 price point.

I didn't see a lot of good sales for the PS3, but I'm not buying that PS3 related sales only accounted for 1% market share. There are funny numbers here that aren't telling the correct story. Hopefully more reliable data such as from NPD will surface soon.

Oddly enough, wasn't eBay showing that the iPad and Wii U were its better-selling items during Black Friday? Thought I read that somewhere.

@Gorlokk

A combination of a solid fall lineup (better than the PS4 IMO), along with lots of marketing, sweeping the kinect 2 under the table, and price cuts down to 350 w software included.

@drewb0203 It was included in a special 3DS bundle this year, and was also 15 dollars for just the game at one of the stores (wal mart or target I think)

Why can't we just wait for actual numbers from Sony MS and Nintendo. The fact that the majority of this data came from barcode scans means this can't possibly be accurate. 180,000 isn't much either when you compare it to the overall US population

@ikki5

The PS4 was the best selling console in NA from launch until this Oct, I think XB1 will take Nov though.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of statistics can tell that this "study" is practically worthless. I'm going to wait for sales numbers from Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, and NPD k thx.

" via a smartphone app"

:/

All Nintendo's fault. No advertising and no holiday price cut in all stores. They could of sold the Mario kart 8 bundle with Smash Wii U for $279.99 then advertised it and they would of made a killing. Nintendo's marketing is down right horrible.

I think the Wii U just isn't the trendy thing right now, it's true that people are starting to notice the wealth of quality exclusives for it......but still, the PS4 and the XB1 will easily be on the majority of wish lists for Xmas 2014.

I have a feeling this survey isn't far from the truth, well for sure the XB1 and PS4 had higher sales, the only question mark is the 360 and overall percentage number.

No guarantee even with more advertising people would want it. Advertising is expensive and if people want sports games / CoD WIi U doesn't have them.

@Diddy_kong
@drewb0203
Ouch guys... I, for one, really enjoy NSMB2's coin rush mode, even to this day!

I'm sure the XBOX One did vary well. However, the fact that only 180,000 people shared their data then who knows? maybe the wii u did better or the ps4. I taughted when i saw how the data was collected.

It is what it is. No sense defending them- Nintendo took a whooping and that's all there is to it. Doesn't mean the system isn't great- in fact I am still currently playing my Wii U, and enjoying my Wii U, more than my PS4 or Xbox One. Although I must give credit to the other two systems as Halo Master Chief and Far Cry 4 have really upped my play time with them lately.

Unfortunately this is just how it is. Most of the world likes to play big blockbuster AAA titles. And there is no need for 3 consoles that do the exact same thing. Nintendo blew their chance many years ago at having those types of games, but now the market has shifted and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Nintendo will NEVER have those types of games on their system. And anytime they persuade a 3rd party to put one of those games on the system, they fail to sell and just widen the gap further. That's life. Get over it. If you want third-party games there's two systems in the market that offer that. And that's exactly what people are doing.

But that does NOT mean there isn't room in the market for other types of games. There are 7 billion people in this world. Not everyone wants to play cinematic, gritty realistic games that all basically follow the same formula. The large majority of people do want that but that doesn't mean everyone wants that. And that's where Nintendo comes in. They provide something different. It's more of a niche product and they'll never be as popular as the other two but that's okay.

@Gorlokk Well... I got one this month. The "temporary" price drop to $350 and the fact that it comes with 2 AAA titles (Assassins Creed IV & Unity) is DEFINITELY a selling point for the system. The X-Bone is a nice system, but there's absolutely nothing remarkable about it (other than the fact that it's a GREAT multi-tasker). That being said, I still like my Wii U better, but I can understand the sudden increase in interest for the X-Bone. Also, their marketing is killing it. I see it advertised as the main "ticket" everywhere.

I'm not shelling out 300 bucks for these stupid bundles.. Nintendo pisses me off when it comes to making me want to buy their crap. There goes their black Friday chance.. I didn't see one good deal for Wii U's this year. Gonna take more than the new smash bros until I give in. These bundles are ridiculous... I don't need that extra craps for what they want....

Nintendo talked big about its console being a better value than its competitors, but with the tremendous Xbox One discounts and bundles everywhere, I don't know how true that is, particularly in the eyes of the consumer.

Nintendo is by far my favorite game company and the Wii U is the only next-gen console I own, but man, if they were really hoping to sell Wii Us, they missed the boat by not offering a competitive price cut for the holidays ($249.99 would've sufficed). Now Microsoft is reaping the benefits of what was a brilliant move, and Nintendo is lumbering behind.

I wish Nintendo could communicate the sheer brilliance of their platform to people, because it really is an incredible machine with easily the best first party lineup. But a great game (Smash Bros.) is not going to be enough to move the units they're really wanting to move. A great game, a temporary price cut, and some clear and aggressive advertising... if put together, would've done wonders to their console sales.

Not surprised at all. Look at how many games the Xbox One has out right now and look at the Wii U. Smash Bros? Ok. Anything else?... Captain Toad? Great! Seriously nobody wants these games. They have no appeal to anybody. That is the reason why everyone is better off playing Xbox and Playstation.

180,000 is a drop in the bucket and the method of capture is dubious enough... But I'd also love to see the attach rate. If you're already getting a few of the already slim supply of decent titles on the xbone free with the system, why buy more? Microsoft was already losing big money on each system. Then they slashed prices and gave away games on top of the money they were already losing? What does the attach rate have to be before they break even with those deals... let alone to make a profit on those sales? 2.5? 3? More?

Nintendo may not have top this very limited, very specific, less than scientific 'poll', but when they put a system sale of the boards, they are making a profit.

In sure they won't blow anyone away with the NPD data, but I'm sure it with be more accurate too.

What is wrong with humanity... I really don't care for consoles that much really because I care much more about the GAME not the CONSOLE. Anyone who disreguards this stuff is a total bonehead and shouldn't really call themselves a "gamer". For example, there is Super Mario 3D World. That's a pretty solid game. But, certain people go like "nope, this game is really awful just because of the sales on this console". Really?!? I hate it when people always go off like that and act like a complete 6 year old.

I'm not overly impressed with this. Like others have said, this is a very limited sample of people who voluntarily completed the sample. While I don't expect huge differences with the NPD data, it will provide more accurate numbers....

Having said that, It will be interesting to see how many were sold overall during the Smash Bros release month...

This is really the last year Wii U has a shot at redeeming itself from a sales perspective. If being the cheapest system out there, combined with having the best exclusive games, along with just having released Amiibo to great marketing efforts, and the hype surrounding Smash Bros... Then I'm sorry, but it's just simply never going to sell. If these numbers are reflective of all BF sales, then the Wii U may not sell 10mil units in its lifetime, which is less than half of what the Gamecube sold. While I love the WiiU, from a business standpoint, that would make it a tragic failure, and (should) cause Nintendo to completely reboot their line of thinking when it comes to hardware development.

@Joruus_Cbaoth

There's a heck of a lot more than just Smash Bros and Captain Toad. And don't forget Watch Dogs which just came out too. There's Bayonetta 2, the highest rated game of the year, and it's predecessor Bayonetta which is every bit as good. There's Hyrule Warriors which is much better than expected, there's Mario Kart 8, which is one of the top games on the entire system. There's Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, best platformer in years (best ever for me), Super Mario 3D World, Zelda Windwaker HD, there's Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. There's Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, there's ZombiU and Wii Sports Club (golf is fantastic, btw). Classic platformers Rayman Legends and New Super Mario Bros U.

There's also a couple dozen multiplats of top rated AAA games (surely people haven't played them all), there's GBA classics like Metroid Fusion and Zelda Minish Cap, there's indie masterpieces like Shovel Knight, Stealth Inc 2 and Armillo, and even 1st party digital releases like Pushmo World.

And if someone claims to like playing video games, and cannot extract enjoyment out of a game like Captain Toad, I'd have to seriously question their judgment. Now I do agree that it seems the majority of people would rather play AAA games. But that more or less speaks to people's ignorance than it does to the games' outstanding quality and level of enjoyment.

Make no mistake, I very much enjoy my PS4 and Xbox One. But they are hardly the most appealing systems (though again, PS4 is FAR better than it was 6 months ago- I couldn't imagine myself being a gamer and not owning that system). But unlike most people, I am well educated in what games are good and fun to play across the board. Which is why I recognize the great games on Wii U. Most people do not want to play them because they have, to be frank, questionable taste in games. But that's life I suppose. It's why mediocre movies sellout at the box office while true examples of excellent cinematography go relatively unnoticed. It's why even mediocre AAA games like Destiny break records, while more excellent examples of modern gaming find a niche market at best. It's why shovelware sells by the drove on smartphones. People buy what they're told to buy, and like what they're told to like, and do relatively little research of their own. Which is why the types of games on the other two consoles will always be wildly popular vs the top tier Nintendo games that struggle to find a decent audience.

There are great games to be found on all consoles. Most have discovered the joys of owning a PS4 and X1, and I'm glad for them. They are great consoles and I recommend owning them as well. But anyone who says the Wii U doesn't have just as many excellent games is either being disingenuous, or flat out ignorant. The console is every bit as good as the other two it's just not what's popular right now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Nintendo needs to advertise more. Only network I've ever seen Nintendo ads is Cartoon Network. I saw a Bayonetta ad during Adult swim a few weeks ago. Earlier tonight, I saw a Smash Bros ad. But MS and Sony have been advertising non-stop during the prime time slots on major networks like Fox, et al...

@JaxonH but what you fail to understand here in your post (a solid post in its own right BTW) is that Nintendo used to be the end all for video games. 1st party. 3rd party. I give Iwata credit for Wii and DS, but that was a LONG time ago and Wii U/3DS are simply not the answer. Sure 3DS is up on Vita but let's be real Apple and Android own mobile.

Nintendo has so much work to do to get back to relevancy. My relatives who never game just bought a Wii last year. An original Wii. Yeah. Sad.

@gatorboi352 Thank you, and yes that is a tough subject to tackle.

Unfortunately I'm not sure Nintendo will ever get back to relevancy in the home console market. Handheld market is a different story, obviously. I used to dream of a Nintendo console with both first and third party games, but then I realized that the problem isn't getting games to come to the system it's getting them to sell once they are on the system. You can't solve one without solving the other first. And it's frustrating to see AAA games flop on Wii U, over trivial matters such as a frame rate drop while driving a car. But, it is what it is.

I've accepted that the Nintendo fanbase simply isn't interested in those types of games, and as a result, I will never see the day that third-party games are abundant on a Nintendo console. It's unfortunate but again, it is what it is. What does that mean for me, as a gamer? Well, it most likely means I'll have to buy at least two consoles every generation for the rest of my life. But, I can live with that.

If you want 3rd parties, get a PS4/XB1. Nintendo will NEVER get major 3rd parties again. Period. End of story.

EDIT: As far as advertising goes, Nintendo DID advertise. Smash ads were everywhere, and Captain Toad is on fairly often. There's more to advertising than TV commercials, people. I'm not even sure TV commercials are as effective as they once were anyways. Problem is, they have a handheld to advertise too. People might also not care enough to buy one, regardless of what's on the system. No amount of advertising can fix that.

The real numbers won't look much better as Nintendo got out played by the competition. Retailers who are talking about Black Friday successes are all praising One sales and giving Sony some props. Nobody is really talking Nintendo. Ebay and Toysrus are the ones who apparently had good numbers, and not coincidentally they were the only ones who had real deals for the system. Nintendo's idea of selling the same bundles for the same price that has been available all year is just down right stupid. If they weren't selling before, they won't get noticed when their competition slashes their prices and adding in fresh game bundles or gift cards. Too many retailers had no deals at all for the system or games. Walmart included and ironically they are now offering a GC with the system when BF is over.

Nintendo though needs to learn to not play it safe. When you are the loser, you got to take risks if they ever want to get noticed. That includes working with Amazon to start selling Wii U consoles as that is a gigantic player in the retail market of which they have zero support. If it wasn't for the handheld market, Nintendo would of already been forced to bail from the hardware market altogether. It is the one thing keeping them afloat. I expect upcoming mediocre numbers for games like Toad Tracker which is doing poorly in Japan as well.

Well that is depressing to say the least.

@darthllama It's quite possible that handheld is what's crippling the Wii U's sales. For people who have a PS4/XB1 as their primary console, they can just buy a 3DS, a system with a vastly superior library, for their Nintendo fix, so why buy a Wii U?

@StarDust4Ever
I agree, I've commented before how Nintendo never advertises on main tv networks while Sony/Microsoft drown you in ads. The last ad I saw from Nintendo was a year ago when Mario 3D World was coming out. There is so much wrong with the company when it comes to the console market.

@darthllama Again, there's more to advertising than TV commercials. Nintendo's advertising problem is that they needlessly pump money into internet ads, which are useless when a thing called Adblock exists.

@Joruus_Cbaoth That is just flat out ignorant right there saying that the Wii U doesnt have enough games. I can tell you right now the games that are on the Wii U are a lot more fun than those realistic movies on those other consoles it feels like you are in a movie theater. If Nintendo would have dropped the price for BF and added some other purks and some advertising/marketing that thing would have been flying off shelves. Nintendo's marketing and advertising for the Wii U has been plain awful.

@iceclimbers
I was using lack of TV commercials as an example as poor advertisement, but as you pointed out they have a lot deeper issues than that.
Right now for the Wii U there are way too many things going against it. It has the lowest value for online play which is huge in this generation of gaming. It has very little third party support. Nintendo itself has limited releases per year. It has the stigma of a "children's console" which they embrace rather than expand their image. It followed the very terrible unoriginal naming mechanic. It does very little to get noticed aside from Nintendo direct which target current users more than anything. So as you said people typically have 1 primary home console and a handheld one. 3DS is an easy choice for handheld with so many games and features available, but with the problems of the U and how Nintendo markets it....people just see more to get out of a One/PS4 than a U.
Then of course.....for these big holiday seasons they stay status quo rather than being aggressive with serious deals that make impulse buyers wallet's bleed. At this point, they've long lost this generations console war already. PS4 is running away, and One has already bypassed it in every market except Japan.

This may be the last Nintendo home console I buy. It's got some great games for sure but those games only appeal to Nintendo fans or those educated gamers that enjoy the exclusives from Nintendo and those alone. I did my fair share supporting third parties and such but ever since launch, the third party games got worse as the two year mark went by. Now the Wii U has no incentive for the core gamer to really get the best out of the system. What key titles are there left to look forward to? Sonic needs to go away for a long, long time and there's only a couple games really worth waiting for. Once those see release next year, without another system to game on, the dreams of going Wii U only will be a long quiet period without any triple A games to look forward to and very few indies worth a look that truly feel like something more than a game made for Adobe Flash/HTML 5.

It's a tough spot for a Nintendo only gamer as Nintendo may have a few surprises left but at this rate, not enough to save the Wii U. I've tanked a lot of money into this system, and I really am not too confident in it's future.

I think the issue with advertising as far as TV comemrcials go is that Nintendo is trying to advertise the 3DS as well as the Wii U, which means that the latter suffers. It might have been a better idea to simply let TPCi handle the 3DS with Pokemon ads, and for NoA to pump it's advertising solely on the Wii U.

@JaxonH Right on on a lot of points, but must you feed the trolls?

I think the sooner people accept that nintendo's platform, whatever gen it will be going forward, is going to be "that other console" that people get to play along with either their PC, PS5, or xboxX, the better. Nintendo could put out the next console that is a total clone of the PS5 or whatever it is called, right down to the architecture and everything, and 3rd parties are still not going to touch it. Either because of bad blood with nintendo, or using past generations as an excuse. 3rd party support for nintedo consoles is largely a dead issue, so I can just hope, like most do I am sure, that nintedo does well enough to keep chugging along and putting out high quality games. Now this doesn't mean i think they are perfect, but I am generally fine with how they do most things.

Wow! Now everyone calm down. If they were accurate, they only represent 3 of about 30 holiday shopping days of the Christmas season. Albeit the biggest 3, there's still 27 days, and there is no way we know how accurate this information is. Let's not lose our cool over what might be very skewed. If these numbers did carry some truth, It's still just 3 days. Microsoft shareholders are still ultra pissed about the price drop. Nintendo is watching closely.

PHEW! I was worried util I saw the sample parameters.180,000 smart phone users. Definitely not indicative of the silent majority that Nintendo prays on. Excited for actual results!!!

Yeah there was a lack of WiiU's selling on Black Friday at GameStop. And I don't like the look of it. I talk a lot of crap about Nintendo but I love them. They HAVE been improving on advertisements. Heck I see Nintendo all over TV and not kid channels neither. The WiiU deserves more sales this holiday more than any other holiday because of DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, and Smash Bros. But I still have faith in them, they will build up their relevance in 2015.

To be honest, there weren't many great deals on the Wii U in my opinion :/

So sick of all this negative Bulls..t! I love my Wii U. I think it's an excellent console. Better than the other two in terms of fun games. Sadly the world have lost their taste in great games and now crave big AAA blockbusters. I just wish people have open minds like they used to. You noticed there are mainly first person shooters and sports games on the PS4 and Xbox One - nothing new. Nintendo needs to up the ante on their image if they want to get more customers.

If this is true, then I blame Reggie. I've been getting a strong vibe that he doesn't give a damn about the Wii U, and refuses to make moves to advertise the damned thing. I know people worship him like he's Chuck Norris, but I personally feel like NoA could use a new president that will actually try to sell Nintendo's systems.

But the Wii-U wasn't in the sale and the PS4 was selling at £289 in Tesco the Xbox one had similar £299 so obviously people were looking for bargains on that day.

Black Friday is American and so as Xbox One, soooooo...

Yeah! I know that's not it lol

Seriously I think it's the parents that are buying the Xbox One for their spoilt little kids who want to be coolest in class.

People are afraid to buy the Wii U because they worried they'll be wimps.

@NikkiChu I would buy Xbox One too if the price for xbox one is that low during the sales.

However, it is quite safe to say that Wii U gamers are different from PS4 and Xbox one gamers. Wii U gamers like platformers while PS4 and Xbone gamers are for games with a mature story. Yakuza, when are you going to Wii U in North America?

At least in the UK, Argos (think it was them had a pretty awesome Wii U deal. So perhaps it at least sold well over here.

But as bad as these figures look, lets wait and hope the actual figures are better.

@allav866 I actually support Reggie for not dumping prices, from a business side of things. Price dumping reduces the value of products, just look what Steam sales do to gamers' buying patterns. Removing Kinect from a launched product+price dumping is a completely different business strategy.
Personally, I'm cool if Reggie waits for people to say "there's no way I'm paying $300 for a machine just to be able to play Mario Kart 8, Super Smash U, Zelda U, Splatoon, Metroid U, Starfox U, Pikmin 3, Bayonetta 2, Yoshi's Wooly World, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, Metroid U, Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Wonderful 101, Captain Toad:Treasure Tracker, Devil's Third, etc, etc".

I see three problems:
1. Shy marketing by Nintendo.
2. Judging by german amazon cyber monday no Wii U bundles were offered, unlike frequent XBONE and PS4 sales.
3. Currently very strong line up for XBONE and PS4, like GTA V and CoD:AW.

Because I was at the midnight launch, it was also the midnight opening for Black Friday and people were buying both PS4 and Xbox for £300 each with at least 2 games on each system.
Nothing Nintendo was even discounted.

I own a Wii U have since launch and I love mine as well it gets the most attention in our house by a long shot but Nintendo REALLY NEEDS TO GIVE THE Wii U a PRICE CUT ALREADY , like 75.00 and it would sell I mean it's been out a long time now it's pretty much in the middle part of a consoles life span at this point .. Come on Nintendo do what needs to be done and get Wii U systems moving .

No surprise there.....black Friday is a war of marketing and boom popularity sales.....Nintendo have failed hard in both of these catagories and did nothing to change it this weekend.....AGAIN!!! ah well, I'm happy

Huh, a lot of the responses in this thread seem surpised and salty at the same time:
[youtube:NdozkeNqNQk]
You all know Wii U is a secondary console, so this shouldn't be surpising in the least.

Well of course they are. The general public have no idea the wii u even exists. Further to this, Nintendo has now released the new Amiibo range to take on skylanders!!!! ..... Nobody knows anything Bout them and I've not seen a single TV commercial.
Got my son a donkey one, he's gutted at the lack of things he can actually do with it compared to a skylander.
Utterly appalling on all fronts from nintendo at the moment

@Nik-Davies
????? Wii u was on sale with a minimum of two games for between £160-£199 dependent on what games you got with it

The pricing is all wrong!!! If you want to sell Wii U to be your customer's "other" console you want to make it cheaper!!! If you can get an Xbox One for $30 more, consumers will prob find that a more attractive offer!

@Punished_Boss_84 "You all know Wii U is a secondary console,"

Nah.
http://i.imgur.com/Tcwi2ot.gif

@HypocrisyNews
Newsflash: Exclusives aren't the only thing that matters, speaking of which why do I see cherrypicked outdated examples? List all the games coming to Wii U in 2015 then compare to the One/4 lineup.

Doesn't take away from the point that the Wii U is a secondary console and its reflected in sales.

Just as an example of the problem, currently, Amazon has the "Super Mario Bros 3D World" bundled for $370 and the "Super Mario Bros U" bundle for $387! Meanwhile, you can get an Xbox One for $330. THERE'S the problem. In fact, I know a parent who bought their young kids an Xbox One because she thought it was cheaper.

Nintendo blew it on pricing and Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales.

As a side note, I think Nintendo should release a 32GB white console. The "Sunset Overdrive" white Xbox One sold out even before Black Friday.

@DESS-M-8 A skylander works in one game, and just unlocks content. Amiibo can have owners and names saved to them, work across multiple games, be trained and personalised in Smash Bros to your own playing style. How is that less than skylanders?

I think there are several factors that hurt Nintendo with their home console.

First I do agree the name and whole marketing of the Wii U is a problem. I assume Nintendo were hoping that much like Xbox and PlayStation, they could make the Wii name into a successful running brand of consoles. But I think another problem they have is that when people hear the name Nintendo, they associate it with "kiddie" games whereas Sony and Microsoft are the "mature" games.

Nintendo certainly has a big problem regarding third party support. I'm not sure whether third party publishers will ever touch Nintendo's home console again, or at least in any big way. And Nintendo doesn’t seem to be doing all that much to attract them after the initial launch lineup of the Wii U.

The price of the console, outside of sales, needs to come down big time. It's been 2 years. They must be at a point where they can produce it at a cheaper price point. Both Sony and Microsoft reduced their consoles within the first year, and they're a lot more powerful.

I think maybe Nintendo needs to seriously look at buying some developers in order to get those "mature" games onto their consoles, while at the same time filling out their yearly releases with none Nintendo branded titles.

Currently, Amazon's Cyber Monday sales are sponsored by Xbox One. They've had load of Xbox deals. That must help sales.

@jariw
That line of thinking is why Nintendo is struggling and has seen PS4/One outsell it in a very small time frame. Some stores are still trying to find ways to dump the surplus of 8GB Wii U consoles and are not finding an easy job of it. The Deluxe model, even bundled with some good games, is also having trouble getting out the door. Lowering the price, doesn't devalue the hardware. Every system including the 3DS and original Wii lowered its pricing as time moves on in order to get units out there door. The longer Nintendo waits, the closer in price its competitors will get. The One was only $30 away and included 2 games in itself. By next year, the PS4 will be around that level, and we'll see the One bounce around that point as well. At that point Nintendo will be forced to reduce the price for damage control reasons just to get some return.
Smash was the last big title the U will see for quite some time. By the end of Christmas, Nintendo will see the last push that Smash would give the U in sales. They won't have the software to really advertise to sway people over, so the only buzz they could have is if they discount the unit or release some really awesome special edition consoles to generate some buzz.
Also of the software you listed....Wonderful 101 didn't sell well. Bayonetta has low overall sales. DKC was disappointing sales wise. Toad Tracker isn't going to be a big seller and has lower numbers in Japan. Starfox/Zelda have no time table and aren't guaranteed for next year. Kirby/Yoshi games aren't system sellers and Splatoon will need a big/intelligent marketing push to really make a difference since most people don't have a clue what it is.

@Punished_Boss_84 Its an amusing old gif. Someone else can update it with games from this year. Anyway, I guess I'm the only one that exclusives matter do to because it gives me a reason to purchase that console for the games I can't get anywhere else.

"List then compare to the One/4 lineup. Doesn't take away from the point that the Wii U is a secondary console and its reflected in sales."

The Wii U also has an impressive lineup for 2015 that, once again, you can't get anywhere else. If any of those games that aren't coming to Wii U has Watch_Dogs and Destiny quality, then they're not a good example to label it as a secondary console.

Depends on the person's preferences, I guess.

Edit:Then again I could be just saying all this because I've recently got into PC gaming and out of all the consoles, Nintendo's console is the only one that still appeals to me. Again, preferences. And mine are Wii U is THE primary console, despite what its haters claim. And fine I'll list all the games coming to Wii U in 2015 and here is my 2015 prediction for the Nintendo haters excuse every time a Wii U game is released(just like the past 2 years):

Devil's Third: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Splatoon: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Mario Maker: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Yosh's Wooly World: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Xenoblade Chronicles X: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Zelda Wii U: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
StarFox Wii U: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Pokken Tournament: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"
Any other secret Wii U game to be released next year: "I'm not buying a Wii U for one game"

@darthllama And if the 1st party titles don't interest the users, why would it be in Nintendo's interest to get those users? The other 2 consoles need lots of consoles users early on, since the paid subscription services during a long period of time is a main source of revenue. For Nintendo, it's the attach rate to first party titles that creates the revenue.

I'm planning on getting one a little closer to the holidays so that will be at least one more. ;3

@JaxonH

"There's a heck of a lot more than just Smash Bros and Captain Toad. And don't forget Watch Dogs which just came out too. There's Bayonetta 2, the highest rated game of the year, and it's predecessor Bayonetta which is every bit as good. There's Hyrule Warriors which is much better than expected, there's Mario Kart 8, which is one of the top games on the entire system. There's Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, best platformer in years (best ever for me), Super Mario 3D World, Zelda Windwaker HD, there's Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. There's Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, there's ZombiU and Wii Sports Club (golf is fantastic, btw). Classic platformers Rayman Legends and New Super Mario Bros U."

< here is the problem, at least in the UK. If I go into a shop and look at the Wii U shelf (or two if the store is being generous with their space), they may be MK8, SSB and Bayonetta2 out of that bunch on display. Shops around here simply don't give space to the Wii U. The 3DS does a little better for space in stores but the vast majority is dedicated to PS/XB systems and games.

Obviously they did terrible sales-wise. Nobody had a really good Wii U deal and in fact, most places didn't have any wii u sales at all. Why would you go out on black friday and buy something that isn't on sale?

@SavoirFaire I'm generally fine with how they do things too. I like most of their games a heck of a lot, and I like how some of them are so unique from everything else (like Pikmin and stuff like that). And even though the 3DS is a relic when it comes to internet speed lol (New 3DS should fix that), I enjoy the dual screen concept, and for Wii U. I always usually like their hardware. At least they finally went HD, that was my only previous complaint.

@AndyCarolan Can't argue there. The selection of games displayed are atrocious at retailers.

If that chart's true, it's not surprising. The Xbox One had by far the best discounts this year, while the Wii U barely had any discounts at all. I don't know why the 360 would do so well though. It was barely in the ads.

Did Microsoft pay GAME off to sell the xbox for such a low price with 5 games £299.99!
I didn't see any Wii U sales in my local game but to be fair where I live they have pretty much stopped stocking Wi U stuff in most shops that sell video games. It's really quite sad to see.
HMV stopped selling Nintendo because they don't sell enough to make a profit, GAME has a tiny section and the Amiibos are behind the counter out of site,
Smyths have a tiny section and no big display of Amiibos like the skylanders and disney infinity just on a bottom shelf out of site. It's such a shame how the mighty have fallen, I can't imagine a gaming world without Nintendo but it's happening very slowly in the U.K it seems.

@Punished_Boss_84 You're right. Wii U is a secondary console behind my uh...hmm...TV?

I work with a lot of "gamers", and I asked what were people planning on buying this year. The vast majority of young gamers only play the bro shooters or sports games and the rest play Assains Creed. I was shocked at how many people were buying PS4 and Xbox One just to play those games only. They are training their kids the same way too. My kids have played nothing but Nintendo their whole lives because I feel they are the best and especially for families. I don't understand going online for hours just to shoot at other people and get screamed at by 10 yr olds. The world of gamers has changed and I think in the long run Nintendi still has the best to offer. The bro shooter stuff is beginning to wear thin and now half the third parties cannot even release a game without major issues now. My family will be playing Nintendo until they go under but these stats show that a lot of parents don't care what their kids play as long as they got a good deal. I did try a PS3 for a while but wasn't happy and traded it in just in case someone wants me to try their world. We are all free to enjoy what we want, but it does worry me that so many young people only play games that involve shooting other people. Sad times indeed but I think Nintendo has legs and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

The pain of not having COD and Destiny on Wii U finally kicks in.

@TrueWiiMaster - Stupid people I'm afraid. When they see huge discounts they see saving money.

@Kaze_Memaryu - I think Nintendo have missed a chance because now all these potential Wii U owners have now bought an Xbox. The people rushing out on black Friday will be the casual crowd and will probably not get a second console.

Once again Nintendo's marketing department have failed again...sigh.

Well done, Nintendo!!!

Stellar work with the Wii U there!!!

Oh, wait...

@FragRed

If Nintendo was going to turn any of its console's names into a brand that it used on successive machines then it really should have been Nintendo Entertainment System aka NES.

Nintendo absolutely nailed the name first time around, I mean seriously that name is even more perfect now than it was when it was first used, and yet here we are in 2014 with basically a fully fledged Nintendo entertainment system named...Wii U.

Great job, Nintendo's marketing team!

GENIUS!!!

Never too late for a price drop!

The problem I found here in the UK, there were hardly any Black Friday Weekend deals for the WiiU, compared to the hundreds of XBox & PS game deals. So not surprising that the WiiU hasn't performed well. I don't think this is something to worry about, its just the result of the retailers not putting WiiU into the mix on a fair playing field

Woohoo now the kids can play call of duty and gta 5

Let me start by saying that every parent who gets an XBO or PS4 for their kids and at the same time provides them with GTAV, CoD or other such games is irresponsible and/or just plain dumb. I see that a lot where I live, and it's really scary.

Now, I generally agree with those who say that Wii U is first and foremost badly named. It's the name, combined with initial presentations of the Gamepad alone, that made people think that this is simply some add-on to the Wii. It took off a large chunk of customer awareness off the system and I don't think there is a way to fix that now.

Also - price drops won't help Wii U because of the abovementioned lack of customer awareness.This system needs heavy marketing and promotion of its very strong (yet alternative to mainstream) exclusive lineup, and possibly more 3DS connectivity to materialise (seems to be trendy theese days).

As for third party - they gave up on the system, but I guess it's not because of what Nintendo is or isn't doing, nor is it because of Wii U's specs. The quality of first- and second-party titles on Nintendo consoles is punishingly high and I guess companies like Ubisoft and EA don't see a way to compete here. Also they are, just like customers, largely misled on the console's target.

Bottom line - marketing teams need to get to work, and work hard, but Wii U is almost certainly destined to be the third console out there for entire generation. We need to wait and see if Nintendo can turn fortunes around with it's next system.

I'm not surprised... Regular folk look at new releases when buying a new console and the only thing Nintendo has right now (in Europe at least) is Smash.
They don't see SM3DW, DKCTF, Bayonetta and Hyrule Warriors.

I love Nintendo but boy have they messed up their home console...And thats bad when your only (current) income is gaming.

All of the friends that I've been playing games with since elementary school have Wii U (for reference, I'm 30). It's the kids who got a PS2 as their first ever console who couldn't care less. Just a stigma around Nintendo now. My 18-year-old cousin seriously couldn't believe it when I told him that I had a Wii U. This same cousin didn't know what my 3DS was when I had it over at my Grandma's for thanksgiving last year. That market is just gone.

@Gorlokk

Because Microsoft was smart. They aggressively priced the XBO, dropping the price by $50 or $70, and packing in brand new games like Sunset Overdrive, or two Assassin's Creed games.

It's disappointing to see the Wii U fall so far behind, but what did anyone expect? It can't handle the games or engines being released now without making sacrifices (if at all). It has almost no third party support due to Nintendo making the console "underpowered," Nintendo not actively working to get 3rd party support, and most importantly, the fans ignoring third party titles when they were released.

Honestly this black friday sucked in general. I work in a mall and other stores were showing less shoppers for than usual. My store didn't sell as many systems as we'd expected. Only a few ps4s and WiiUs were sold and while we sold some XBOs it wasn't as many as we thought we'd sale. I don't think the deals were all that good all around.

I still think nintendo needs to do a smash bundle in December though.

@Stu13 Agreed. People didn't grow up with the same consoles that we did and that does influence console choice as an adult.

@Kifa You're making an aggressively faulty argument here. Ubisoft and EA didn't abandon the Wii U because "Nintendo is just so gosh darn good they just can't compete." That is extraordinarily ridiculous. By that logic, they never would've supported the N64 (EA did because Howard Lincoln sought their support), GameCube, Wii, GBA, or DS.

They abandoned the Wii U because, first and foremost, the fans IGNORED THEM at retail. Why the hell would they invest money into developing on a console where no one is going to buy their games? Yes, Nintendo also screwed up--the system isn't powerful enough for modern games and engines, and those that will come to dominate the industry in the next few years. They also didn't actively work to get third party support--which MS and Sony constantly do. But the biggest part of this is sales--when they don't have sales from the existing and available audience, then why the hell would they stick around?

This is precisely what happens when you see a Nintendo fan saying they don't care about third party support: The third parties then don't care about the console, the console then struggles for relevance, and parent company stuggles to make any money. Yes, Nintendo can technically (financially) fail this entire generation and still have enough money to continue.

But think about that for a minute: How much confidence would you have in a company spends an entire generation losing money and gaining no ground? As an investor, you're going to see your money being wasted. As a consumer, you're going to lose confidence in the brand.

Oh, I do agree with you in that Nintendo should be marketing more aggressively--but alas, they're planning on cutting advertising costs. That way even fewer people will know about the console that no one is buying: http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-wants-to-cut-advertising-costs-rather-than-downsizing#.VHxzyzHF-aI

@foobarbaz

I think it may be foolish pride as much as the price of the GamePad itself.

@Quorthon "Aggressively faulty" is a term I haven't heard up to this point, thank you. But I'm afraid you are wrong more than I am, and here's why.

First - fans ignored third party because games they released for Wii U were objectively worse than any other version, including both past-gen HD consoles. No DLC, sub-par performance, cuts in graphics, all that on a system that is not slower than PS3 or X360, despite what most are saying. How do you expect sales when that particular version is the worst of all?

And how exactly Nintendo should do to get the support? Before Wii U release both Ubisoft and EA were praising the system to high heavens, and yet immediately after it released they started shooting flak at it. I don't know what went wrong, but celarly Nintendo did work to get their support, but all big companies backed out suddenly. I don't really see anything in particular that Sony and Microsoft do to court any big third-party publisher, can you give me some good examples?

In terms of processing power - compare the games of past generation with this one and tell me: is any of that new power used for ANYTHING good that is much better than past generation? No, it's not. In fact, Wii U has more 60fps games now than PS4 and XBO, probably even combined. More importantly though, none of that power goes into anything that enchances gameplay.

Finally - last time I checked, Nintendo actually reported operating profits, not losses, for the past few months. And those investors you're talking about are mostly foaming out of their mouths, calling for iPhone release of Pokemon and Animal Crossing, not seeing that the entire mobile gaming market is a bubble that, when it will finally burst (and it will soon), will send a shockwave through the industry that will make the Great Videogame Market Crash look like child's play.

And what the heck is people's problem with the gamepad? Really, it's a pack-in with the console, not an accessory, and it is in no way preventing anyone from doing or not doing anything in particular with the system. It might have been overdesigned and the concept is clearly not catching on as hoped, but how exactly dumping the Gamepad would help Wii U?

@Gorlokk I think Destiny and the lower price due to the kinect 2.0 being optional raised interest.

I would not get all worked up over some "research" that was done via a smartphone app. I personally think that - at least in North America - the race will be competitive. I think that some of those Xbox One deals will push that console over the top... some places offered gift cards on top of the discounted $329 price, making it in effect even cheaper than Wii U. And there is no denying that GTAV and COD are huge system sellers.

But I don't count the Wii U out. Nintendo traditionally does very well over the holiday season. Last year, it sold over half a million units when it had a much much weaker software lineup. I think this Christmas will see Nintendo do respectably and a game like Smash Bros has legs that COD doesn't and should propel Wii U to have higher sales year to year going forward.

@Kifa
@Quorthon

Kifa is right on this. Nintendo games are of a much higher standard than third party games. So if a Wii U owner is looking to buy some games would they rather spend their money on Nintendo's high quality exclusive titles or buggy third party poorly ported mediocre ones? It's a no-brainer.

The fact is third party games don't sell on Nintendo systems because they are rubbish. And on top of that, the ones that have arrived have been the yearly rehashes or are just mediocre, even for third party standards.

I and many Wii U owners would happily buy third party games if they were any good or would come to the system. GTA5 would be snapped up if a good port was available.

I'm having a great time with my Wii U but these are results you can expect with zero advertising and a serious lack of 3rd party support, or really late ports.

At this point I'm hoping next year is the Wii U's last...
Focus all your devs on your portables, Nintendo. Or make a new console with an adult focus...like you tried to do with the Wii U...

@Melkac Interestingly enough all my relatives who are interested in Wii U are in fact between 25 and 35 years old (no children). Curious, isn't it?

And why do you "hope" that Wii U will die? How would that help anything and anyone?

Seriously, people, stop spewing doom & gloom - it's getting really old. Why people can't just enjoy it? It's not difficult, at least not for me - had it since release and it constantly keeps me busy with new games, and quality ones to boot. Who cares about sales figures as long as we, gamers, get the good stuff?

@Kifa I am going to cut and paste my comment I made this morning from the Watch Dogs article here as a response to the third party comment:

Like I said, their path is to offer and be something different. Nintendo's strength is offering experiences you can only have on their console. Be that with first, second, or exclusive third party offerings. If third party publishers want to participate and succeed, then they will need to bring something unique.

Take any game that multiplats on the Wii U as an example. No matter how sound the game may be, it is going to be hammered by the general gaming press because it lacks features or doesn't have the highest level of graphical detail. Gamers, being who we are, will automatically go purchase the best version we have access to and the Wii U version will suffer in the sales department because of it. Yes, there is a stigma against buying third party on the Wii U, but how much of that is because of reason just stated? (Personally about half my library is Third Party titles). That trend will not change if third parties keep releasing multiplats on the Wii U and would only get worse as this cycle progresses and the power of the newer (and more powerful) consoles is tapped into.

So what if instead, there was the Assassin's Creed VI: Return of the Assassins on XBO/PS4 and Assassin's Creed VI: Revenge of the Templars on the Wii U. Both present well written stories within the universe, but are built to the capabilities of the system. Now there would be a compelling product on both systems, and a reason for the Wii U version to also sell. Let's not forget that the engine it most likely would run on is built (Assassin's Creed III & IV), and without being tied to the XBO/PS4 edition they could innovate with the gamepad even by doing something as simple as building the companion app into the game.

So if you like, blame the gamers as we are a fickle bunch that drool over ultimately meaningless numbers and pre-order from publishers that consistently produce broken product. Blame the gaming press for selling their souls for early access and leaving us exposed to broken games sold on hype (might hurt advertising dollars after all). Finally you can blame the publishers for trying to make a one-size fits all solution to a vastly varied landscape, and caring more about release dates and sales figures than producing quality products.

I think that data is as good as garbage. I never heard of Infoscout and they don't even appear as a registered company (http://www.hoovers.com/). I think that's just some blog of people that just get data from unreliable sources. Wait for the NPD data.

EDITED ADDITIONAL INFO:
I did a little snooping around on those guys. Their data seems like it would be very unreliable. They collect it from customer surveys from an app (that's only available on android and ios). That alone would produce such skewed data that would be useless for the grand picture. I reiterate what I said before. Wait for the NPD data.

@Darknyht Yeah, but what you said is up to the third-party, not Nintendo, to do. And they will not because big publishers are interested only in playing it safe and in easy cashgrabs. I don't think any of them is interested in doing anything to convince Nintendo audience that their products are worth anything, it's far easier (and cheaper) to just call Wii U a lost cause. And sadly this is not going to change...

Also you say it all like I blamed everything on Nintendo initially, while I actually did the opposite. Or is there something I fail to understand in your comment? :]

EDIT: In regard to update in the post above - I initially thought they were providing actual sales figures, not random inputs from a mobile app. That actually puts the entire thing in doubt IMO.

@CTs_Lieutenant

This comment could not be more unfounded, illogical, or asinine. You're basically saying every third party game is rubbish and that's why they don't sell. Here, let's examine the facts and reality that you so vehemently deny:

Here are the review scores for some third party games on Nintendo systems with disappointing sales:
GTA: Chinatown Wars: 93%
Bayonetta 2: 91%
Rayman Legends: 92%
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut: 88%
Need for Speed: Most Wanted U: 86%
Assassin's Creed: Black Flag: 86%
NBA 2K13: 85%
Mass Effect 3: Special Edition: 85%
Assassin's Creed III: 85%
Darksiders II: 85%
Batman: ARkham City - Armored: 85%
Tekken Tag Tournament 2: 83%
Injustice: Gods Among Us: 82%
Call of Duty: Black Ops II: 81%
Lego City Undercover: 80%
Resident Evil Revelations (Wii U): 80%
Wonderful 101: 78%
ZombiU: 77% (that's higher than Dead Island)

Shall we take this trip further back?
Soulcalibur II on GameCube: 90%
The Last Story: 80%
No More Heroes: 83%
No More Heroes 2: 84%
Red Steel 2: 80%
Ikaruga: 85%
Super Monkey Ball 1 & 2: 87%
Burnout 2: Point of Impact: 89%
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes: 85%
Metal Gear Solid 3D: 78%
Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars: 77%
Splinter Cell: Blacklist: 75%

You are wrong, wrong, wrong.

You know what, let's look at some of Nintendo's own titles, many (if not most, or all) of which are games that are known to have outsold the higher rated 3rd party titles I noted:

Wii Music: 63%
Mario Party 9: 73%
Mario Party: Island Tour: 57%
Mario Party 8: 62%
Mario Party DS: 72%
Wii Play: 58%
Yoshi's New Island: 64%
New Super Mario Bros 2: 78%
Link's Crossbow Training: 68%
Metroid: Other M: 79% (clearly a fluke, because this game is a pure zero)
Nintendoland: 77
Pokemon: Gates to Infinity: 59%
Pokemon Battle Trozei: 70%
Pokemon Rumble U: 49%
Pokemon Rumble: 59%
Pokemon Rumble Blast: 56%
Game & Wario: 61%
Wario World (GC): 71%
Wario: Master of Disguise: 60%
Rusty's Real Deal Baseball: 74%
Steel Diver: 58%
Wii Party: 68%
Wii Party U: 65%

Your magically blind fanboyism is for a company that constantly rehashes not only their most popular games (Mario and Zelda everywhere, Majora's Mask to be available on a FIFTH platform, etc), but also constantly treads out some of their worst games over and over again:
Urban Champion 3D: 37%
Donkey Kong Jr. Math: No one even cares
Excitebike 3D: 58%

You are completely, factually wrong. I didn't even need to go to this extent given the absolutist nature of your post--clearly, third party games are not all rubbish on Nintendo consoles, and clearly, Nintendo is very adept at delivering every bit as much rubbish, if not more so--but Nintendo fans will still buy it, so long as it has Mario, Link, or that Nintendo logo on the box.

This is a now-typical Nintendo fanboy ploy--truck out the completely broken and factually faulty "quality" excuse as a reason to ignore 3rd party games left and right and absolve themselves of guilt that their "Nintendo only" buying habits are what is effectively killing the company they claim to so love. It's time to face facts--you treat Nintendo like a third party publisher already, and not a console maker, otherwise you'd be buying the consoles for more than just Nintendo games. It's time for you to champion the company to call it quits on hardware and just go third party like Sega.

By the way, in 2013, Nintendo came in as the fourth-highest rated game publisher--behind Take Two, Ubisoft, and EA--and barely ahead of MS and Sony. http://www.metacritic.com/feature/game-publisher-rankings-for-2013-releases

Your "Nintendo = quality" argument is utterly without merit. And before you try to spin the "Well, Nintendo was slightly ahead of MS and Sony" in this, try to keep in mind that those three publishers ahead of Nintendo--because their games are on the Sony and Microsoft consoles, not Nintendo. If third party games are rubbish, and you're including Ubisoft, Take Two, and EA in that, by definition, Nintendo is worse rubbish.

@Kifa

Actually, getting third parties on-board and helping them find sales is indeed something for Nintendo to do and it is in their best interest. To that point, Microsoft and Sony both work actively to get various bonuses, games, and content for third party games, regularly include 3rd party games in bundles with consoles, and include them in their advertising. These are all things Nintendo fails to do.

And given the Nintendo fan penchant for buying "any old crap from Nintendo" over any higher quality title from anywhere else, 3rd parties are fighting a losing battle. When the fans repeatedly ignored third party publishers on the Wii U, they effectively told them that the Wii U is indeed a lost cause for them.

What the hell do you expect them to do? Keep making games for an audience that would rather buy poorly-reviewed Nintendo trite instead?

@Quorthon Nobody ever said that third party games are bad in themselves. We are saying that multiplatform games usually get the worst treatment on the Wii U. It makes no sense to show us the review scores, we all know them, but it shows that you missed the point. We were talking about ports, not games. If I have more than one system then it is plainly obvious that I will choose the version that is the best. And sadly, that is usually not the Nintendo rendition.

Secondly - a very interesting choice of games you gave us there, for a number of reasons. Games like Darksiders II, Injustice, Black Ops and a few others are examples of bad ports, with which I've dealt above. Mass Effect 3 is a great port, but of no use because it was released when other systems got the entire trilogy. No one right in the head would buy that. Things like TW101 are another bunch of rather niche games that always sell poorly (remember - Bayonetta 1 sold extremally badly on both X360 and PS3).

Also you've chosen a number of crappy Nintendo games just to prove your point. Why not include anything really good, like Super Mario 3D World, or Metroid Prime Trilogy, or anything else? Also I fail to see why Nintendoland is here - it's a great minigame collection that bests WiiSports in every department, and also it was bundled with a lot of consoles.

Angrily throwing random review scores at everyone will not help you make your point. You talk about rehashing - true, Nintendo does that, but which company does not theese days? Ubisoft does it with Assasin's Creed (with Unity being in fact more primitive than Black Flag), EA does the same with Battlefield, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and pretty much everything else, and Activision... well, you know. But at the same time those franchises from Nintendo evolve, even if slowly, while most third party games are just the same thing with new skins.

And don't even get me started on the "HD remake" ridicule that is going on right now.

As for your last post - Nintendo in fact did all of that in the early days. Zombi U bundle is a prime example. And stop with the "old crap", because that makes me want to question wether you have actually played any modern Mario or Zelda title, and I don't want to do that, because I respect people fundamentally. Bottom line is - Nintendo will not sell 3rd party games for the said 3rd party. They initially tried to help, and look how that came along...

@RainbowGazelle I don't play with either, my son does. But I pay for it all and watch him use them. With skylanders he constantly has to interact with the figures and portal, his figurea mostly work with 3 games now one (they are forward compatible) and to him the figure is beamed intense game and his whole gaming experience is under the belief his figure is his avatar in the game, doing everything.
Amiibo, unlocks ONE item per game, mariokart integration? Done finished. Hyrule warriors interaction? He gets a single rupee per day. Smash interaction? Nowhere near the same level of interaction as skylanders.
The list of what amiibo can do maybe longer, but in terms of substance, quality and hours of entertainment? It is pathetic and lasts under an hour

@Kifa

You missed the point entirely. Indeed, I responded to a post that actively stated--in blanket terms--that third party games "are rubbish." And you completely miss the point of my listing of the crappy Nintendo-published games.

The point is, Nintendo fans will and regularly buy crap from Nintendo, while demanding ever-higher quality from third parties. You no doubt own several of the poorly-reviewing Nintendo games I listed just because they're Nintendo, while you're attacking a high-scoring title like Darksiders II as "part of the problem." If you own Game & Wario or any Mario Party game, but are calling Darksiders II "a problem," you just might be the problem.

Pay attention--my entire point was that Nintendo fans and fanboys like to truck out the quality argument, but will happily discard that very argument when what they want to buy has the Nintendo logo on the front.

Link's Crossbow Training sold 4.8 million copies. But you're making excuses for not buying Darksiders II, Mass Effect 3, Call of Duty, or Deus Ex? The problem isn't 3rd parties. It's Nintendo fans.

Nintendo bundling ZombiU was a good start, but they ultimately failed to continue with it. These bundles were very rare and hard to find (at the time, I worked at GameStop while between real jobs and I don't even think my store got one), and Nintendo did not continue the trend. Compare that to Microsoft or Sony, who currently have bundles all over the place--easy to find everywhere--that include either two Assassin's Creed games (MS) or Destiny (Sony). Your argument on this point is invalid as Nintendo lazily did it once, and then failed to maintain it.

If Nintendo wants their console to succeed, it needs third party support, which it does not have. The two reasons it doesn't have third party support is that Nintendo fails to secure games and support the way MS and Sony do, and at the end of the day, the Nintendo fans don't care and make stupid excuses anyway. The high-rating Need for Speed: Most Wanted U came out around the same time as Game & Wario, which reviewed fairly poorly. Nintendo fans don't care about quality, they care about the Nintendo logo on the box.

To the point of rehashing--no, no one does it as much or as badly as Nintendo. Activision is not regularly trying to resell decades-old games for full price on new hardware. Tell me, did you already pre-order Majora's Mask 3D? A game that's well over a decade old that is available on four other Nintendo platforms? Yes, Call of Duty, Skylanders, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed--these are annual franchises. Mario sees his mug on games more frequently than that, and Zelda is also an annual franchise now. As I've pointed out elsewhere, since 1998, there have only been 3 years without Zelda releases--but those years were followed or preceded (or both) by years with multiple Zelda releases--often times, those games have been full-blown remakes sold for full price, like Ocarina 3D. You don't see Activision rereleasing Pitfall on modern consoles every single generation, every few years. But Nintendo does that with Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc.

Nintendo fans not only do not actually care about quality, but they are more than happy to re-purchase the same games over and over again instead of new games, many with higher reviews. When Nintendo fans were more excited to see Majora's Mask coming to the 3DS (again, the fifth platform that game will be available on) over Splatoon or Devil's Third, it's safe to say that what matters isn't quality or new games. Your "3rd party quality" arguments are faulty and wrong.

@Kifa

By the way, you're ALSO WRONG about Bayonetta--it did not sell "extremely badly" on the X360 and PS3. In fact, at the time, it was Platinum's best selling game--it just wasn't quite as high as they wanted--which was partially blamed on marketing (Sega). Since then, I would imagine that Metal Gear Solid Revengence is now their highest seller.

But "extremely badly?" Flatly incorrect. More like really good, but not quite good enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonetta#Reception

Just wait for the NPD and then we can talk about it.

Come on Nintendo! Advertise the Wii U more!

@Gorlokk

Lots of factors but the biggest is price. There were also some great exclusives. Forza Horizon 2 (it's a completely different, more full game on X1 than it is on 360) and Sunset Overdrive are easily 2 of the 5 best games released this fall along with Far Cry 4, Smash Bros. U and Bayonetta 2. The impending releases of FH 2 and SO along with the price cut to $400 made me spring for an X1 back in August and I don't regret that decision at all. Over the next year it looks like things are only going to get better. Quantum Break, Scalebound, Tomb Raider, Halo 5, possibly Crackdown and pretty much any third party game. Expect the surge to continue as long as MS stays focused and doesn't get off track like it did with 360 midway through that console's run. Before the shift to Kinect and other bs in 2010, the 360 was easily the best console of last gen.

Marketing

Honestly, it's not surprising when you look at the sales they had for Black Friday. As someone who hasn't owned a non-Nintendo gaming console since the PS2, I picked up an Xbox One this week (still waiting to get the Wii U). They had a bundle with Halo MCC +extra for just $330. Maybe if Nintendo at least made a bundle with SSB under $350 I would've considered getting a Wii U instead since I know I'll be getting a Wii U sooner or later.

But honestly, the lack of sales/special bundles from Nintendo just told me that I could wait until Christmas/next year to buy the console.

As a nintendo/pc gaming fan since the early 90s, While I am enjoying my Wii U, I would also say that I would not get another nintendo console. While I enjoy nintendo's exclusives more than any other console, I do miss at least having the option of playing some of the major third party titles.

Mario kart and smash have been my main games from their inception. However, i find myself feeling a bit underwhelmed with mario kart, so now it is only Smash (which is a masterpiece by the way) which keeps my attention with the wii u. Although I am looking forward to splatoon(most likely another masterpiece), I can say that Nintendo is really on a downhill trend. They should stop making home consoles and put their games on other systems. Either way I will enjoy my Wii U to the end. Thanks nintendo for many years of solid gaming.

A lot of people are finally saying what I'm saying ADVERTISE the Wii U. Hell not even Super Smash Bros. For Wii U couldn't make sales for Wii U & you know who I blame for this? Nintendo & Nintendo Of America for not putting a Bundle for at least Smash Or Toad Treasure Tracker. A lot of people are also saying the same thing too. They would rather invest in a PS4 Or an Xbox One then a Wii U & that's what I be doing getting an Xbox One. This is ridiculous, Nintendo just sits on there ass & does nothing. I guess people were right. Maybe if they got ridden of Mr. Iwata & the crew. Maybe just maybe the Wii U could of done an Impact this Holiday Season. I Will be getting a Wii U sooner or later but not now. SHAME ON NINTENDO

@Kifa No I did not intend to imply that. Like I said, I cut and pasted that comment. I agree, it was up to the third party publishers to take advantage of the unique features of the console. Instead, they opted for forcing games designed for different hardware onto the console. I would have loved to see a version of The Sims or Sim City on the Wii U from EA, or a version of Heroes of Might & Magic or a more polished ZombiU from Ubisoft. I think those could have taken full advantage of the gamepad.

I think it is on Nintendo to fill the void so to speak. They are going to have to start putting games out like SEGA did for the Dreamcast before it died everywhere but in Japan. Purchase the guys that were Factor 5 and turn them loose on Star Fox for a start. Get Retro Studios working on another FPS game (I don't care if it is Metroid or not). Once Monolith Soft is done with Xenoblade Chronicles, get them started on an improved Disaster game. 1-Up Studios needs to get Mother something in the works.

Turn up the second party development. Treasure needs to be working on something. Intelligent Systems needs to wrap up Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem. Pay Square Enix to bring a true successor of Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles to the system. Mistwalker needs to bring another The Last Story, let them become the Dragon Warrior to Monolith Soft's Xenoblade series.

@kereke12
I do not think advertising will help that much. I believe that most people simply do not care about nintendo any more and see them as "irrelevant" and "only for kids." In some ways they are right. Without third party support, they are simply a niche which most people simply do not care about. Only us older gamers can really appreciate the nintendo franchises and how they have evolved, but for the younger folks, they couldn't care less as the console is severely underpowered and has limited gaming options as a supposed gaming machine. As time progresses, I am caring less right now.

@Yorumi
I agree 100%. Although I did not say it directly, Nintendo is indeed enforcing the kids only image by only having kids in their commercials. The ones with adults do promote someone what of a family image, but the "kiddy" image is more pronounced. As for the third party games, while they do exist, as we can see, they are now next to being non-existent for current and future releases.

@Shy_Guy

They, uh, are planning on cutting the advertising budget.

Sorry, dude. http://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-wants-to-cut-advertising-costs-rather-than-downsizing

@Quorthon I see you're really getting pumped for it all. Cool, I can work with that. To start from the last comment - if you ever listened what Kamiya had to say, you'd know that Bayonetta sales worldwide were so poor that the sequel would have never happened if Nintendo didn't finance it. Reception was great, but sales apparently never even warranted a sequel. Not to mention the horrible PS3 version that I can't really understand selling at all.

As for owning poor-scoring Nintendo games - you'd be surprised. Of all the stuff I have on my shelves and digital form I couldn't point to anything with poor review scores, at least not on any of my consoles. Unless you count the aforementioned Nintendoland, by which I will stand, as it is a really solid party game I've used more than once since it's release.

And Darksiders 2 on Wii U is a problem. I see you have trouble reading your native language and understanding what people are saying, so I guess I need to repeat all I wrote in simpler words. Sad, really. Anyway - the game is very good and I own it. On PC. Why? Because while PC port was indeed crap, it is still far better in every aspect than the Wii U version. Even X360 edition was technically better. I am not attacking games. I am pointing out that poor ports are Wii U's biggest problem with third party. Same goes for every other multiplatform I know of that has been released on Wii U, with the sole exception of NFS Most Wanted U which is actually the best version of them all. On my shelf there are titles like Ikaruga, Eternal Darkness, Rouge Squadron II, Muramasa, Pikmins, Okami and even Burnout 2 you've mentioned. The lowest scoring game on Nintendo systems I happen to own is probably Disaster: Day of Crisis, which I've really bought out of curiosity.

And no, I have not pre-ordered Majoras Mask, and I doubt I ever will. Nostalgia does not matter to me, at least not on Nintendo systems, because I've started playing on consoles well past year 2000. So all your points regarding me as a drooling and mindles nintendrone buying anything from the company just because of long lost memories of childhood are moot by default. Stop making them and digging a deeper hole for yourself.

Finally - I still cannot understand why you consider all Zelda games the same since decades. I really fail to see how, for instance, Skyward Sword is the same game as, let's say, Ocarina of Time. Or how Super Mario Galaxy is the same as Super Mario World. I won't even start digging into Metroid series in that context because even each of Prime games was really different from the others. Could you at least try to explain that to me? Or to anyone else actually using their brain? Because as of now it is you who is being wrong right now.

@Darknyht

To be fair, third parties did more with the Wii U and the GamePad than Nintendo did.

Activision had superior online gaming on both Call of Duty games, and those were arguably some of the best arguments for the "have your own screen" multiplayer gameplay.

Ubisoft heavily incorporated the GamePad into ZombiU, carving a truly unique title that shows off the console better than, say, Donkey Kong Country or Mario Kart 8.

Warner Bros gave us a remastered Batman: Arkham City and DLC for Injustice, and Scribblenauts fit well on the system.

Square-Enix delivered the best possible version of the brilliant Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Third parties tried. To say they didn't would be abject, deliberate ignorance. Nintendo didn't help promote them enough, and the fans didn't care.

@Kifa

Yes, SEGA was not happy with the sales of Bayonetta, and they didn't feel it was worth funding (and it looks like they were right, especially to putting it just on one system). But as I pointed out, and you flatly pretend doesn't prove you wrong, it was not the "extremely bad" that you tried to claim. Sales were good, but they were not great, which made funding a sequel too a risky proposition, and in that, too risky in Sega's eyes. But Bayonetta 1 was certainly not a failure or the disaster you seem to want to claim. If it was, even Nintendo wouldn't have funded the sequel.

Your personal anecdote about your personal collection DOES NOT MATCH THE SALES FACTS THAT I REFERENCED. The high-scoring third party games I noted were very regularly outsold by far poorer games from Nintendo. I don't really care about your personal collection--and this is another Nintendo fan failing, taking everything personally. Nintendo fans get personally offended when 3rd parties tell them their games weren't profitable, so they have to go to audiences that give a crap about third party games. You have taken it upon yourself to inject a completely pointless and useless personal anecdote. I wouldn't be surprised by anything in your collection, and more to the point, it doesn't matter--the GENERAL SALES ON NINTENDO CONSOLES INDICATE THAT FANS WILL BUY LOW-QUALITY CRAP FROM NINTENDO OVER HIGH-QUALITY TITLES FROM ANYONE ELSE. Sorry for the all caps, but you really aren't paying attention, and that needs to be punctuated. I'd prefer bold and italics.

Your constant malingering on the defeated Darksiders 2 point is increasingly sad. Beating a dead horse does not make it live. Suffice to say, regardless of your cherry-picking, Darksiders 2 reviewed VERY WELL on the Wii U, but to Nintendo fans, that doesn't matter because it's not a Nintendo game.

If you are not a "drooling, mindless Nintendrone" (your words), then you might want to stop acting like one. Your original sentiment, claiming that third party games are low quality and Nintendo games are high quality and that's why third parties don't have sales and Nintendo does--is STILL FLATLY, FACTUALLY, TOTALLY WRONG. You have yet to counter my proving you wrong on this. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.

Again, my points, which you haven't addressed:

1. Nintendo fans do not actually care about quality, and only claim to when trying to explain why they ignore away third party companies.
2. Nintendo games are not some magical higher quality than third party games. Again, in 2013, Nintendo games averaged review scores BELOW the averages for Take Two, Ubisoft, and EA.
3. Bad Nintendo games will still sell just because it says Nintendo on the front, especially if it features Mario or Link (or Pikachu).
4. Third parties are not "afraid of competition from Nintendo," especially considering how many have done better than Nintendo at using the GamePad, but they will not stick around on a console which has both LOW SALES and a fanbase that IS DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER GAMER, in that they actively work against third party games.

These observations are for the general Nintendo fan--the general majority, and those that affect market trends, sales and corporate maneuvering. Personal anecdotes do not disprove this. That's like saying global warming isn't real because it's cold outside. Right now. At your house. During winter.

I also never said that every Zelda is the same "since decades." That is a straw man fallacy--you are attempting to argue against a point I never made. I noted that Zelda is Nintendo's Call of Duty--a franchise they work to truck out annually since 1998, missing only three years. And in at least two of those years with a release, they actually had more. Now, if you want me to rip apart the unevolving nature of the Zelda franchise, I can do that, but that was never my point. You made that argument up and ran with it.

Dirty pool, sport. Dirty pool.

@Yorumi

I've made an analogy before (because I was tired of it being compared to the Dreamcast), that the Wii U is Nintendo's Saturn or PS3--consoles that were disappointing embarrassments to their company during their cycle, and that depending on what Nintendo does now will depend on if the successor to the Wii U is truly their Dreamcast (their last hurrah before going 3rd party) or their PS4 (their true return to form and success).

I've grown up with this company, so to speak, so it's disheartening to see them grovel so badly. It looks to be that even Smash Bros did not push the Wii U to the success it needed. The third parties have lost all confidence due to poor sales of the console, and cruelly poor sales of 3rd party games from Nintendo fans.

But I no longer see how they can return to relevance--at least with Iwata, Reggie, and Miyamoto still at the company. Miyamoto has been one of the greatest of the greats, but every time he talks, I can't help but think that he's just so out of touch with modern gaming, and I wonder how much damage he's actually doing now. Reggie is no Howard Lincoln--who worked hard to get 3rd parties developing for Nintendo. Rare's support was a result of Howard Lincoln. EA bringing sports games to the N64 was also from Lincoln. What the hell has Reggie done? He talked about wanting more Dragon Quest, then did nothing to help bring the games over here. He limited Xenoblade Chronicles to just GameStop, who eventually took advantage of the situation. Reggie turned up his nose at Disaster, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Fatal Frame, Dragon Quest X, and so many others. Iwata promised to step down if things didn't improve, and then he didn't. Iwata promised mergers or acquisitions would be on the table, but no word has been said on those. Iwata maintains region-locking and is slow to ditch it. These guys are not benefiting the company anymore.

The company looks like a lumbering dinosaur incapable of understanding the industry they helped to create. Kind of the way Atari helped create console gaming, then forgot how to maintain it. The way Henry Ford understood how to revolutionize car production, only to be forced from his company later for failing to evolve with the industry. The way Halo feels dated after being surpassed by other shooters after it revitalized, and in a sense, perfected the genre on consoles.

Nintendo knows how to make some great games--every now and then. But they have no idea how to appeal to the gaming community that evolved around them. The only thing I'm confident about is that the Wii U will be very short-lived. Like the Saturn before it. And I can't see Nintendo reviving the console the way Sony was able to salvage the PS3.

Endless talk about how great 2015 looks only reminds me that we originally thought a lot of these games were going to be here in 2014. To that, 2015 looks even better for MS and Sony.

At this point fans should be aware the Wii U will be at best in the GC place this gen. It won't sell like crazy, it will have few games aside from first party and it will be the underdog this whole gen. I hope this teaches Nintendo a valuable lesson for their next console, I mean we still haven't got accounts, what the heck Nintendo (and no Miiverse accounts don't count, we can't link our purchases to that)?

@Yorumi

Nintendo has an unfortunate history since the N64 of their consoles dying slow, malingering deaths in their final years, which harms consumer confidence and awareness. Sony went out strong with the PS1, PS2, and is now with the PS3--these consoles still felt relevant even after the successor launched, which made the brands look strong. The final year of the N64, I think it had less than a dozen games for the entire year. According to MobyGames, over 2001 and 2002 (2001 is when the GameCube launched), the N64 had only 27 games released.

By comparison, in 2002, the Playstation had 219 games released for it. Keeping in mind, the PS2 was out in 2000.

I know Nintendo has said they'll just "get out of gaming" before going third party, but I doubt their investors would allow that. The franchises will go third party one way or another, either with Nintendo under a new CEO, or with whoever buys them when Nintendo starts selling them off.

It's going to take a lot of money and heavier risks for them to return to even the "success" of the N64 right now, and they have an uphill battle ahead of them and it's not just against MS and Sony--but against irrelevance.

@WaLzgi

You're hiding something!

@Quorthon: I don't know a bunch of people with the Wii U (or any gaming system... I'm an anomaly in my circle of friends), but they scratch their heads when they see my game library. I should mention that I like Steeldivers and Yoshi's New Island, but that's a personal taste thing and I get why they aren't popular.

The Last Story? Pandora's Tower? The Wonderful 101? They ask me where I found these things and how I had heard of them. That's happening with Bayonetta now, and sadly Hyrule Warriors, too (which I love to pieces). I have more than half of the games on your upper list. And I'm sure that's an anomaly.

I think we can all agree that, for third party developers, that is exactly the problem.

@HypocrisyNews
"If any of those games that aren't coming to Wii U has Watch_Dogs and Destiny quality..."
Don't make me laugh:
[youtube:5Fyar4wJ3-Y]
While that may be true for some titles, not all them. No. No. No. Just no.

@Quorthon I don't know if I could say bolting a feature onto an existing game qualifies as trying very hard. ZombiU probably had the best gamepad integration, but suffered (like all recent Ubisoft games) from being rushed out the door.

As for the marketing, Microsoft is the one that brought that sort of requirement to the table. Sony has bought into it this cycle, but why should Nintendo be required to advertise for a competitor? Ubisoft has quite the marketing/hype department, they shouldn't need assistance in marketing their game.

Finally, comparing the N64 and PS1 is not entirely fair. The N64 was horribly expensive to produce for, and no one can blame developers for running away from it. Even developers that liked it hated the cost of the cartridges. The Wii is still getting titles 2 years after the Wii U released however (Skylanders: Trap Team being the most recent). Plus most of those games you are pointing to were Third Party shovelware cash-in titles or yearly sports franchises.

@Vineleaf

You sound like an anomaly similar to me. I also have Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Pandora's Tower, Last Story, etc. Xenoblade Chronicles is my favorite Wii game. And while I recognize the review score issues of the Steel Diver games, I also enjoyed them--but I picked up Steel Diver as a kind of experimental title when the 3DS launched. I had some fun with it, but enjoyed Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars a lot more. That game was a lot of fun, and very unique on the system. Though I ignored Yoshi's New Island. I'm sure it's fun, but it looked derivative, and the reviews backed that up.

Nintendo doesn't get enough info out for the Wii U, and now they're--somehow--planning on cutting spending on that. I just don't get their planning there.

I've said a number of times that it's not my job to worry about sales for these companies. And it isn't. But I'm a portable gamer, and while the 3DS has done respectably well, the mobile market is still killing it, and I would argue very strongly with games that are far shallower and sometimes just blatant money-grabs.

I picked up a Vita (finally), not because I expect it to do well. In fact, I expect to see few games for it in the future, but the ones that are there are inexpensive and of good enough quality to be well worth it. Also, I managed to have a few bucks to spend. Voila. It's sitting next to me as I type this, as is my 3DS.

I'm not home much, so I don't worry about console gaming. But the direction of mobile gaming very much does worry me. A lot.

As an aside: If anyone is interested in the PSP and hasn't gotten one, the deals at GameStop have gotten essentially ridiculous. System for about $50 and a great selection of games for $5 and under. Heck, I was rolling with Gran Turismo, Wipeout, and SW: Battlefront, with the system, out the door for $70.

@Darknyht

What competitor? Who said Nintendo should advertise for Sony or Microsoft? Your paragraph on this makes no sense. Who said Nintendo should advertise for Microsoft or Sony??

Actually, it's COMPLETELY FAIR to compare the N64 and PS1 as they were in the same generation, received some of the same games, and competed with one another. That Nintendo horribly botched pretty much everything on the N64 (expensive cartridges, bizarre hardware, limited texture memory, limited memory, etc) does not change the fact, nor can you easily dismiss what the games were that were released. Some shovelware, sure. Some sports games, sure. But also a lot of late-generation titles. God of War II (granted, this is the PS2, but a valid example) released a full year after the PS3 launched. The point is, the console STILL HAD STRONG SUPPORT from a wide variety of developers and publishers, because they could still make money on it, and there was confidence and strength in the brand.

That's like saying that a fat kid shouldn't be compared to the athletic kid in a race if both kids entered willingly. Nintendo willingly put the N64 up against the PS1. They can be compared, and should be.

@Vineleaf

I wouldn't say so much to "worry" about sales, but to understand them. I know no one is suddenly going to sit here, look at their small-but-overwhelmingly-Nintendo-published Wii U collections and say, "holy crap, I helped drive off third party publishers."

It's about an understanding of the industry and the direction in order to understand why a console turns out the way it does. The Vita is in the same situation as the Wii U--fun systems with so much potential, wasted for a variety of reasons. Although, the Vita has the confidence of several JRPG companies behind it, like NIS.

Without third party support, neither of these systems will ever see their full potential, and their sales will continue to disappoint, and from that, the libraries will shrink or stagnate. If you simply like the console and enjoy what's there, that's fantastic.

It's the complaining about the lack of third party games while simultaneously attacking third party devs and publishers that bothers me. Sales is the reason why they left. Sales is the reason they lost confidence. Those things are about sales, and third parties didn't abandon the Wii U because they have malice against Nintendo fans, or something like that. At the end of the day, Nintendo fans didn't support those companies, they weren't profitable, and they went to where they would be. It's that simple. Nintendo could have done something about this, but they didn't. And it only made things worse.

By the way, the biggest memory card Sony released for the Vita is 32GB (outside of Japan), and those are really only available at GameStop for some reason. If you have PSN+, you'll need the bigger one. The 4GB card is an absolute joke. Just a heads-up in case you didn't know. Took us a few hours and several trips to different stores find the 32GB card when I got my Vita last year.

@Quorthon My point exactly. You cannot make an apples to apples comparison to hardware that was anything but similar. Nintendo with the N64 generation made the same mistakes that Sony would make with the PS3. They saw themselves on top and everyone would take their handouts. Nintendo made choices with the N64 that worked for them, not for anyone else and paid a price for it. Of course the worse console of the generation lost support long before one of the best selling consoles in history. That is why I pointed to the Wii, which sold similarly to the PS and like the PS has seen a revision of it's hardware late in it's lifespan.

As to the competitor's comment: My point is that Nintendo is in the business of selling Nintendo software on Nintendo hardware. It is stupid to argue that they should be in the business of advertising and selling their competitor's (Ubisoft, EA, Activision) software for them. Microsoft started the business of advertising/selling third party software for third parties because once you got past Halo, there wasn't much there in the first party library tank. They completely depended on third party support (and arguably still isn't much more than Halo) to sell their consoles. Even Sony is somewhat dependent on those third party to sell consoles, just look at this year's Black Friday bundles. Do you think they really want to push third party software over first party?

@Quorthon

Saying that Nintendo is the worst at rehashing is complete and utter rubbish. One Smash per generation, one MK per generation, one or two Zeldas per generation. I would agree that Mario Party is a bit of a rehash though.

And yet Activision released thirteen CODs on the XBox 360, or is it fourteen now. There's been so many I can't keep up.

You see this story,and then on Wii U daily there is an article saying an e-bay Wii U "Black friday" bundle deal sold 4000 consoles in just 17 minutes.

Wait until proper monthly figures are revealed.

@CTs_Lieutenant

That's some of the lamest cherry-picking of information I've seen outside of a debate on Creationism (which defines rubbish). Releasing a new Call of Duty game every year is not rehashing.

There have also been 9 Call of Duty titles released since 2005 on the Xbox 360, when the Xbox 360 launched. That's a new game every year, none of which are rehashes.

Conversely, the Zelda franchise has seen major releases all but three years since 1998, and in a few of those years, two or more Zelda games were released, and several of those WERE rehashes dropped to consumers for full price, such as Ocarina of Time 3D and Wind Waker HD. Oh, and this DOESN'T include all the Virtual Console ports.

A large number of games from the NES, SNES, and N64 have been released and re-released multiple other Nintendo consoles. All the NES Super Mario games have been re-released multiple times. For instance, Ocarina of Time appeared on the N64, GameCube (twice), Wii, 3DS, and is playable on Wii U.

@Yorumi

Majora's Mask 3D will be the 4th official release/port, but technically the 5th since you can play the Wii Virtual Console version on Wii U.

@Darknyht

If Ubisoft, Activision, and EA are Nintendo's competitors, then they are logically also competitors to Microsoft and Sony--and they have no problem promoting third party games because they understand that they're trying to sell a game console, not a single-publisher box.

If Nintendo is behaving in this way for the reasons you stated, the smarter thing for them to do is go third party, and if you really believe what you say, then you should also be championing them to go third party, because you aren't seeing them as a console maker.

Third parties are not Nintendo's competition. They are the only way the a game console can be successful.

@Punished_Boss_84 Notice I said IF any of those games has Watch_Dogs/Destiny quality.

"While that may be true for some titles..." I believe that just helps my point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA39ze0i7Fw

I almost ordered a Wii U this holiday season, but the person who was selling the console on Amazon was way overcharging, so I had my husband cancel the order. We ended up getting an Xbox One instead. I do want a Wii U, and support Nintendo as a company, but the Black Friday deals on the system were more or less non-existent. I chose the Xbox One simply because it had a far better deal, and like other people are mentioning, was only $30 more than what you can get a Wii U for.

You win this round @HypocrisyNews

@Yorumi

Ahh, cool. I wasn't sure if there was region-locking or anything on the 64GB Vita card (I didn't expect there to be since there isn't on the games), but this is helpful.

@Quorthon Funny, even still I own a Xbox 360 and Wii U I have lots of more fun on the Wii U than on my Xbox 360 with big games like Call of Duty (is that even a big game?) Or GTA. And no, fanboism isn't blinding me. First I was a Microsoft fanboy saying all kinds of things mostly towards Nintendo like, "hey the wii console sucks a lot" just because I new the power of the online play was alot better than the Wii and the power was much better with HD. But then, I started getting a little bored with games on th Xbox 360. I started to play my Wii just because I had nothing else to do on my Xbox 360. That's when I realized that the Wii wasn't half bad, so I started playing on the Wii much more. See, even still what you say like, "hey these first party titles are crappy and need third party" I really don't care much because I find the first party titles better than than the games that I enjoy on my Xbox 360. Heck, you're probably only saying this beecause the sales of the Wii U are bad. Well hey, just because the sales on a console doesn't mean the games on it are bad. Critics? Don't care for 'em. This idea goes for my Playstation 4 as well. The only games on that system are Persona. Nothing else interest me on that system because most of the games that are filling that console are Mature games for kids. Most friends I know have kids that own an Xbox One or PS4. They are either playing CoD or GTA V. SERIOUSLY?!? And I thought Nintendo was much more for kids. People on the Wii U are people who play those who want to get that old nostalgic gameplay. Now really, the Wii U isn't a bad console. But hey, that's an opinion that I'm sure everyone has like you.

@LazyGamer

Well, once again I need to remind someone that their personal anecdote does not matter in the least bit to the wider factual things I've been noting over and over again.

You clearly missed every single point I made, ignored what I actually wrote, and seem to have just run to a knee-jerk reaction to randomly defend the Wii U with personal anecdotes and nothing more. Wow, everyone you know is buying CoD and GTA for their kids? I'm sorry that most of the people you are terrible human beings. I bought Rayman for my kid. I guess I just value childhood more than the irresponsibly awful people you know. Oh well. That's my personal anecdote--and it references not a single point I made.

The points I did make, however, were backed up with known history and facts. So congratulations whoever the hell you are, you're a savage minority that magically found nothing to play on the Xbox 360 and apparently bought a PS4 for a single game (way to be fiscally responsible on that one). Your rambling, unfocused post still did not address any of the actual points I made about the Wii U, and I have no reason to repeat them here as they are clearly visible just a few posts up.

If they were so handily ignored the first time, no doubt, they'd just be ignored if I repeated them.

@johnvboy

Isn't Wii U Daily one of those sites that's notorious for overwhelming bias, articles heavy on rumor, and questionable at best for their information and facts? Skimming over the site reveals only a single remotely negative article--and it's unfettered hate lobbied against Ubisoft.

Not a single criticism against Nintendo at all. Hardly sound journalism. Best to stick to your note to just wait until all the numbers are in, then we can also find out how much better the XBO and PS4 sold on eBay.

@Quorthon

There seem to be a lot of members on the WII U daily forums claiming the articles are no that kind to Nintendo.

But as you say lets wait for solid data and also Christmas time does tend to be better for Nintendo's sales.

@johnvboy

Ugh. Fanboys. Unless you're constantly fapping to the console, they think you're out to destroy it. How I long for a future with a unified console methodology to put an end to this hardware fanboy nonsense.

Wii U Daily is just one of those sites that has always come off as a bit sketchy to me, but I tend to avoid all "brand-specific" sites as I'm not interested in one-sided mumbo-jumbo. I used to use IGN for most of my news, but their articles are so gaudy and new information so rare now that merely using that site is an exercise in patience.

This site is much of an exception for me where those "specific" sites are concerned. It's clean, it's updated regularly, it has a lot of readers and those in the industry seem to recognize it. For a Nintendo=centric site, they also don't shy away from reporting the "bad news" as it were, which is also a huge positive.

@Quorthon Ok look I'm sorry. I just jump at many things most of the time. But, to be honest here and I did look at you citing the rating of the first-party titles for the Wii U. Instead of being the most obvious guy and decide to not support Nintendo, I'm still going to support them. What I'm trying to say here is that enjoying the a console/game depends on the person, not anyone elses. And look, I respect your opinion on how you look at the Wii U as a "failure" console, but to me I enjoy that console. And yes, I was acting like a drunk moron by saying how I own a X360 blah blah and realized what I said was pretty stupid. Please again, I apologize for acting like a child.

No surprises here. Microsoft cut the hell out of the XBONE/360 prices, and PS4 is currently the "in" thing.

I think Nintendo and Sony made a mistake by only pushing bundles and not discounting their systems like Microsoft did. I love my Wii U but had a hard time not picking up an Xbox One myself. I'll still wait until Halo 5 comes out.