Fils-Aime - With the Upcoming Wii U Lineup Third-Party "Development Dollars are Starting to Shift"

Right now I care more about the 1st party games. 3rd party support will come around eventually.

It is just a manner of patience before Nintendo steps up. I still cannot believe the complaints and demands coming this early, the Wii U is not a year old and people are all ready stressing Nintendo. They need patience and a break. They may take as long as life to do this, I don't care, patience is needed for Nintendo's success. Nintendo shouldn't stress themselves with trying to gain speed, they just need more support, patience, and less demands from the consumers.

I have games I'm playing right now with a high reply value and enough for the rest of the year that I'm not bothered. I don't get all the chicken little stuff happening - don't people play games any more, or do they just comment on news posts?

From a business perspective, being a 3rd party and wanting to develop games for a console it makes sense to have a good size install base. I get that. What I don't get is the power that the EA's and Activision's have gotten control of and are using that current "small install base" as an excuse to not produce games. Yet, are throwing their full support behind new consoles that have literally zero install base at this moment. Nintendo tick'd off a lot of 3rd parties back in the 80s & 90s with their policies and I think now we're seeing some petty revenge on the part of those 3rd parties.

Well if you don't count Nintendoland then NSMBU is the only Nintendo 1st party game out for WiiU. So it's hard to think about 3rd party when there's not even yet a fraction of the 1st party library out that you bought the console for in the first place

to add to ajcismo, also companies such as EA, UBI..... are making new games for those new platforms. For the Wii U they either released year old + games from other systems, shovelware sh*te, or totally ripped off Wii U Customers (Cough...Fifa....Cough) with bull*hit.
And those companies think they didn't sell only because of low user install base. The mind boggles !

Sales for even Nintendo published games are pathetic, Lego City sold 20,000 in USA and 11,000 in Europe, wow, what's wrong with Wii U owners, one of the best games on the Wii U and most Wii U owners aren't giving it a chance, that's why third parties are leaving. There's more to life than Mario guys...

@SteveW Also that, we always complained about third party support since the N64.
When it comes to it we don't support the games that are good because lazyness and such non-sense.
Nintendo is really trying, Reggie is going to publishers, in the next directs the games will come.

Now it's our turn.

"We take away our support that would increase the sales, and wait until they increase themselves"

@SteveW Lego City is the greatest Lego game, where as the 3DS one is one of the weakest ones. The 3DS one has been number 1 in UK, whereas it seems most Wii U owners haven't bothered with Undercover, which is silly as I think it's the best game on the system.

@SteveW Actually Lego City sold 200,000 copies in North America and thats not including digital sales.

actually idgaf about 3rd party ,any all new 3rd party game look really all the same every year i'm boring of that fps crappy game fps look all the same for me

Tbh I will give credit to Ninendo, they have been hard at work taking steps to get back 3rd party support... on the face of it it's hard to tell with how much degree of success as it depends on which publisher you reference as to what response you get for the WiiU. This ranges from out right No to maybe, to yes.
People keep saying its all down to lack of sales, this is untrue, Xbone/Ps4 sales are an unknow, WiiU overall sales are between 360/ps3 sales for the same amount of time after initial launch.
Lack of power is also cited as a reason, again untrue, if that was the case then a most of the new titles heading to Xbone/Ps4 would not be heading to 360/Ps3.
The real reason is for the most part there is a mental attitude amoung most Nintendo fans that they only buy Nintendo Consoles for Nintendo Games. Developers know this, Publishers know this and even Nintendo know this.
Nintendo are doing all they can to get 3rd party support, but at the end of the day unless the mentality of Nintendo gamers change it's all going to be for nothing anyway.
Maybe with any luck sme of those people who despite u-turning on Drm policies still dont trust Microsoft and are not willing to have to pay to be able to play a game online on ps4 might go to WiiU, and by doing so increase the percentage of WiiU owners wanting and willing to buy and 3rd Party titles.
Maybe Not, but then since almost every WiiU owner are complaining about lack of 3rd party support but only half of them are willing to buy 3rd party titles there's plenty of scope within the WiiU's user base to help Nintendo build up and Keep more 3rd Party support., If only people would change thier attitude.

Nintendo may get some more 3rd party support thanks to MS. By relaxing some of their insane DRM polices EA and others may now publish on the WiiU. Not saying they will, just saying it opens the window a crack.

If Lego City WiiU didn't sell well it's probably due to lack of recognizable IP and multiplayer and the WiiU being purchased more by people who wanted ZombieU than a kid friendly GTA. Think back before Lego Star Wars, when Lego games looked like cheap web browser gimmicks. Lego games sell as well as their IP allows them to, and I'ld guess mostly at kids. Don't have the numbers but I'ld guess Harry Potter sold better than Pirates of the Caribbean.

I'm not saying it's a bad game, it looks like fun, but it's lacking all the components that has sold other Lego games since they started licensing IP. I'm sure the WiiU numbers are very good compared to other previous Lego games that weren't a license. Here's a list.

https://community.lego.com/t5/LEGO-VIDEO-GAMES/LEGO-PC-Games-Time-Line/td-p/4732788

How many people played those Bionicle games?

what i dont get is why are they using the same excuse they have been using the whole " we want them to have more sales" or " we want them to have a more install base before we put out games" like wtf? if they wanted they could at least release 1 game and help out then if you see it didnt work out back down -_- jeez

better to start early having 3rd party so they attract those ppl who already get those games on another console then to wait till later .-. why dont they think with common sense

@Ootfan98 yeah ok the mind does boggle. Maybe if we didn't have such expensive price tag for games

@Rief why should a 3rd party take unnecessary risk with wii u when there are other platforms and nintendo themselves are unable to get more games published. Nintendo should be going to these developers and saying we will publish the game on wii u. Like they could have done eith crysis 3. No compeling reason? Well wake up nintendo!

@SteveW Where did you pull those bogus numbers out of, your backside? It sold well over 300,000 worldwide. 200k US, 110k EU, 0 in Japan, and 20k elsewhere, and thats boxed retail only, I wish we had digital numbers.. not amazing, but not pathetic either considering the 3 million user install base (10% is actually a decent attach rate)

He's right about everything he said, but I guess this is what he sees now, before the Wii U launch, it was gamepad is gonna become a fad like motion control, we'll print money mentalisty

He's right about everything he said, but I guess this is what he sees now, before the Wii U launch, it was gamepad is gonna become a fad like motion control, we'll print money mentalisty

Something that I dont know is who puts the prices for third party games. Is it Nintendo or the third parties?

It really makes no sense to release old ports at $60, even if they include all DLC, etc. Games like Injustice make more sense since they are being released at the same time as the PS360 versions.

I agree with @Ootfan98. They barely bothered to do anything beyond the ports of old (though good) games. One of the few who tried was Ubisoft with Zombi U.

And Lego City Undercover is a great game. While it lacks a license and multiplayer, they are trying to do something new with the Lego gameplay, and that is commendable.

"People keep saying its all down to lack of sales, this is untrue, Xbone/Ps4 sales are an unknow, WiiU overall sales are between 360/ps3 sales for the same amount of time after initial launch."

@GiftedGimp its an expectations game. Publishers are expecting PS4/XB1 to do much much better in terms of sales... we don't know yet, but there is a pretty good chance they will. It takes software to sell hardware, I love Nintendo to death, but they really dropped the ball on that front for this launch... 8 month waiting period to get the next 1st party title is incredibly poor planning on Nintendo's part... Maybe they couldn't avoid it, but it nontheless hurt their sales this year. It will get better later, but Publishers can only see past performance to make calls on future investments. Right now for publishers, the Wii U is a bad proposition.. things will be better once first party titles start flowing out + small price cut we could see systems move a more healthy number, which in turn will bring some third parties back... for example, Deus Ex would be out right now if the system was selling better, Eidos is smart to hold off until sales pick back up so they have more users to sell into.

@element187 Actually I screwed up, it's 200,000 and 110,000.. oops
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=lego+city+undercover

Still... I bet if the main character was replaced with Mario and the game named Mario City Undercover it would have sold at least a million more.

3rd party is just afraid of how awesome Nintendo games are On Sony and Microsoft platforms, their first party isn't great at all, other than maybe a couple exceptions, compared to Nintendo which has a unstoppable 1st party. On Sony and Microsoft, their games will be seen as the top must have games, while on Nintendo, your game can be awesome, but it will always have a back seat to Nintendo's own game. Some would argue if 3rd party developers would actually make more inventive games, maybe your games would stand out more, but no, lets make another shooter or a game similar to another game that did it better first In my opinion, 3rd party developers have gotten really lazy in recent years.

We are going to get some great 3rd party games in the following months, the problem is gamers need to support them and not just buy first party games! a quick reference AC 4, watch dogs, ray man legends and don't forget about the exclusives like Bayonetta 2, the wonderful 101 and X, yes I know X will not be here for a while but still we are getting third party support so don't let it go to waste

Everybody we need to support the Ubisoft games, just do it buy these games. These people took the time to bring these games to our console. The Wii U shouldn't be a Zelda and Mario box we need a wide range of games. From FPS to platformer, rpg to casual we need to support the games coming from the third and second parties. The good games, if it's a half assed port no way. We all know the console is more then capable of going toe to toe with PS4 and X BoxOne it's just no developer outside of Nintendo is even attempting to push it.

Ubi soft and WB are the only third party developers I think that has quality software to offer AT THIS TIME.

EA don't really have anything that has caught my attention, and neither has any other third party. I know this will change over time as all third parties have their greats.

If the Wii U was to loses Ubi's support I think that would be a massive blow, not only for their multi-plat's but also for their exclusive content.

I WANT A ZOMBI U SEQUEL, or maybe, just maybe a redsteel 3. I think another thing nintendo could do to help turn things around is aquire a few studios.

Why dont nintendo fund new IP's from third party developers the same way sony and microsoft do ?

Why don't the buy HVS and get a conduit 3 going or somthing that will appeal to that audience (including myself) to show that "this is our FPS, with online and all the trimmings that you can only get on Wii U"

Or even a racing or gta style game thats exclusive.

@hydeks yeah, maybe it is that the 3rd party developers just aren't as good these days... back in the NES days there were tons of very successful third party games, Contra, Metal Gear, Castlevania, etc..

The problem I see is that the 3rd party developers were happy to port their older games onto the Wii U, for full price and expect it to sell, even though most people interested will buy the often superior version on another platform for cheaper if they haven't already played it (EA with Mass Effect 3 on Wii U is a prime example). I think 3rd party games should have simultaneous releases on current games, and if the game itself is a year or two old, make it far superior than the other platforms. Nintendo also needs to convince 3rd parties to ensure multiplatform releases make it to their system, but also exclusive games for the Wii U (even if it's just 1) and then if it doesn't sell they can properly justify the lack of interest.

What we need is a bioshock trilogy. Fully enhanced visuals. For increased immersion, have the radio voices come out of the gamepad.

@Deadstanley EXACTLY!!! I've been saying that for quite some time about the achievement/trophy system. Most here will say something along the lines of, "who cares about achievements/trophies?!" I know it shouldn't be the factor in what system you get a game on, but people (like myself) have been hit with the achievement bug and love the fact that there are tasks within the game that you can do to earn a virtual reward. derpfaced? Maybe, but it does give people a choice on whether they will get games like Rayman Legends on the Wii U, PS3, or 360. People love trophies/achievements. Well most do! The game pad would be the only reason people may get the Wii U version over the other 2. Unfortunately Ubi shot themselves in the foot with the release date with other games coming at that time to Wii U.

@element187 Agree, tbh theres numerous 'factors' as to why 3rd party support is lacking, but if more WiiU owners were to show that athough smaller % of sales in 3rd party games were higher then the publisherswould be more willing to bring games to WiiU.
However I think with Some publisher greed played a bigger factor in not supporting WiiU. For example, EA, now most people know that a games development cycle is at least 6 months. EA's last game to be published on WiiU was NFSMW, for them not to have any WiiU games announced as in development since means EA chose to not develop for WiiU before they had any indication of how WiiU uptake would pan out. Especially since since prior to christmas WiiU was selling really well. Ea and others no doubt were under the impression both the PS4 and Xbone were to have the restrictive DRM system thats now been ditched by Microsoft (I have no doubt the rumour about Sony only abandoning it when MS recieved so much backlash is true), mean while the WiiU would of been the only console leaving market open fir trading and sharing of games... losing publishers money.
I would love to know whats happening behind closed doors between both Sony & Microsoft with publishers, no doubt many publishersare not going to be happy about the drm restrictions being lifted, especially since many were stating much higher development costs for Ps4 and Xbone, some even saying games would need to retail at a Increased cost.
On the plus side in regards to WiiU and 3rd party support the u-turn on DRM restrictions could benifit the system as pubishers may look at it as a revenue to cover the increased dev cost on ps4/Xbone, the WiiU is after all cheaper to develop for. Time will tell but as I say, If more 3rd party publishers do decide to support WiiU, what ever the deciding factor is, unless a majority of WiiU owners are willing to change thier mindset and buy 3rd party titles then any gains will quickly be lost again, regardless of Nintendo's own efforts.

@SteveW You also have to remember Steve that there was no one in competition with Nintendo back then really on the NES. When the Genesis touched down, it was still easy for them to make games for the NES and SNES.

@SteveW You know a Lego Mario game would actually be pretty interesting....

LCU is just not appealing enough to sell to all Wii U owners... I didn't buy it, I picked up MH3U and NFSMWu instead that month... I did eventually rent LCU, and played it for 4 hours before deciding its just not for me, wrapped it back up and sent it back to gamefly.

Gamers themselves have changed as much as 3rd parties.
I continue to support the console and buy all sorts of games but i am
In the minority. New generation gamers squeal about price, complain incessantly, and take everything for granted.
I doubt most young gamers truly appreciate the hobby or realize how much
WORK it takes to make a good game.

@BossBattles Here Here! Think thats the curse of gaming becoming mainstream entertainment.

we would like to see a lost planet 3 for the wii u

@rjejr Who needs a name-brand license when you have Frank Honey and his powerful compuper?

@SteveW I tried Lego Lord of the Rings in PC with $30 and it sucks. Quickest way to evaporate my money. I never purchased any lego games afterwards.

@Deadstanley You've made a GREAT point there. I can now see why Nintendo has not lived up to Sony and Microsoft now.

@Rafie For me, Miiverse is far superior to the Achievements. You get ot make your own achievements and bragging rights.

@Deadstanley I completely agree with you once again. I too like Nintendo titles best. When I play other titles that are not Nintendo (Other than Sonic, it feels related), they don't feel that good, because the lack the power and creativity of Nintendo.

@Rafie : The PC Engine was much than the NES or Master System (Probably better than the Genesis as well) but still 8 bit and in the same era. Nintendo used dirty tricks (Similar to the type Microsoft is using now) to stop superior versions of many things being released in the US and EU.

@Varia01: I am not sure Nintendo are necessarily best but they have a reputation for not releasing absolute rubbish over a long period of time and have not totally ripped me off so I am more likely to take a risk with them. All the other old school console games makers have being willing to squander their reputation to make a quick cash in. The only Nintendo ip's I really like are Kirby and Wario.

@SteveW Lego City sold more than that. Check out vgchartz.com and search Lego City.

The sad thing is.. even if Wii U sold 90 million plus.. all third parties would do is give you mainly cheap ports and party games.. and if they did not make a game for the Wii U.. they would use the excuse that Nintendo is not a real gaming company.. or Nintendo is running off old tech and we don't want any more of the same ole.. same ole.. do you?? Or (I always loved this one) Real Gamers own a PS4 or XBOX One.. or PS3 or 360.. not a Wii U and we want to be where the real gamers are at.. Third parties.. just like coming up with excuses.. which is funny.. because if anything Capcom.. and at times Ubi proves all of them wrong..

according to what Reggie had initially said about there should be no excuse why third party support would not be on this machine this drastically has changed now the one thing that's kind of funny is that I purchased my machine on the truth of what Reggie was actually saying about at that time,pre '' u'' release now having the machine, I've noticed less multi-platform games obviously are not coming now but they're saying to patiently wait for this to improve you know explosion of titles and multi-platinum supposed to come but in reality how long do I have to wait do I have to wait so long that when I finally want to trade my Wii U in that I'm not going to get anything but peanuts for it or should I trade it in now knowing that I'll get a little bit more for my trade now rather than 6 months down the line, II honestly think that the Nintendo Wii U should have came out in 2014 or actually at the end of this year the other ones I think they didn't have everything together including strong third party support, not unless you like cartoons titles or 2D side scrolling games because that's pretty much what it is, what s comming or what out currently is not enough at least unfortunately for me its not

Relias: Problem with 3rd parties is the ones that actually knew how to make a game that was good have either folded or been taken over.

At the moment there is only :

Nintendo
Wayforward (When it is Shantae or someone elses IP).
Retro
Sega (Only stuff where it is from an actual arcade game that was out in Asia. After the Dreamcast they stopped making the original stuff I liked).
Shi'en (If I like the genre they choose they have all been of a reasonable quality).

(In the past there was Rare / Konami / NEC avenue / Capcom / Hudsen / Sega / Treasure. But in those days it was easier to find unbiased stuff.)

With the current average review score (It is about 70%) on metacritic you are stuffed if you like the games I do because they will always be some people who think the games I like are too hard. That makes the stuff I want indistinguishable from the stuff that should have 40%. Which sets me up to either waste tons of money or just not bother and just get virtual console games or whatever.

The PS3 has just this week had its first game that actually has been done somewhat properly.

The only way I will take a risk with something is if they have a history of just making good stuff. (Which means not ported).

Nintendo has the good will it does from me through its actions over a long time. The only way other companies can get that is by either making loads of really good games or just one and making sure it is really good and available over a long period of time then another then maybe after a while they will have the respect they think they deserve but haven't earned.

Elhijodelrio: I think you should just get a midrange PC that is more powerful than either of the Xbox one or PS4. You will have pretty much every game and it will cost you next to nothing for the games via steam. (Maybe you wait 6 months) but getting the game for 1/8th price won't happen anywhere else.

I don't think Nintendo will provide what I want but there is no chance in hell anyone else will so I am stuck with them. (I know Retro / Monolith should give me something I want. If most of the VC is 60hz I should be ok).

I think they should help out some 3rd parties a bit (In exchange for exclusive releases). Or just get another dream team and forget everyone else move forward faster with the back catalog.

@hydeks err no, you are a deluded Nintendo fanboy.
I would say 3rd parties are the one pushing gaming with new franchises. You think nintendo don't rehash the samr old same old. Mario kart 8 anyone? Mario party 9?? Every bloody title has to have a mario. They can't make a realistic sports sim?? It has to have mario and gang. And now the wii u is devoid of any sports titles. Don't get me wrong I have backed nintendo and been a fan since the N64 era but it has bcome so painful with the wii and wii u. Game cube was great. Nintendo are stuck in their heyday.

The 3DS was not doing well at launch either, it had a pricedrop but still wasnt good, finally great first party titles came (Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land), and the sales went up, then a lot of 3rd party titles were announced and when they came out between 2011 and 2012 there was a lot of content and the sales were massive.
LETS TRY THAT NINTENDO
The only thing Wii U needs is a Mario and his Kart, then the sales will grow and therefore the 3rd party support!!
The only thing that dissapointed me this E3 was not the few 3rd party tiles, it was the less 1st party tiles coming this year 2013!!! Almost all the good tiles were pushed to 2014, when they should of been released a bit before the new consoles come!!! I hope Nintendo has more surprises FOR THIS YEAR!!!
PLEASE SUPPORT 3RD PARTY TITLES ON WII U AND 3DS!!!
Kingdom Hearts 3
GTA V
Metal Gear Solid 5
Star Wars Battlefield
Destiny
Wii need U!!

@WesGrogan Difference in opinions I suppose. While Miiverse is a great new tool for Nintendo, I still like achievements/trophies better.

@unrandomsam Damn I didn't know that. I didn't think Nintendo was a bully back then.

I think the thing that is hard for us 'core' gamers be that Nintendo or other systems is that the gaming universe is changing and some of it may not be to our liking. Nintendo has had their problems with 3rd parties for over a decade now and in most cases it is because they are their own worst enemy. Their games are better. Just look at metacritic scores over the years and Nintendo rarely puts out a game that rates below the 80s....most in the 90s. Meanwhile 3rd parties are lucky to get in the 90s. Gamers have become more segmented....where all type gamers like myself and many other old schoolers are getting rarer. I know many X360 users that play nothing but FPS, don't even own anything but COD and Halo. I agree Nintendo dropped the ball in year one, but if you will remember their strategy was tomstand aside and let 3rd parties accell. Well the plan failed miserably because of my earlier points and because nothing new, different, or worthwhile was brought to the system accept ZombieU. A few of the ports were competent or improved like Batman or NFSMW but they were not new games. So in some ways Nintendo system gamers are spoiled and we want good content and 3rd parties not only usually fail to live up....but they give Nintendo owners an extra slap in the face by omitting features, online, and DLC and then expecting us to pay full price....recently released Sniper V2 is a perfect example. To those publishers or devs Isay don't bother. T those like criiterion with NFSMW or Imexpect Square with the enhanced Dues Ex I say we need to support them when the titles are worthy. Overall I think the industry could be in trouble....look at the recently released Biosphere Infinite.....Awesome game, established series, TV ad campaign, multiple years of development and in the US on ps360 it has sold in he hundreads of thousands.....which is a huge commercial flop. Great recent games like Hitman and Tomb Raider sold like 2.5 and 3.5mil world wide and were consider comercial failures. So expect to see more studios fold and publishers eat each other up in the next generation, which isn't good. Everyone just expects XBone and ps4 will sell like hot cakes but I am not so sure...bad economy, yhe launch lineups are not as overwhelming as people think and 1/2 their games will be out on ps360 this year and next....what is the incentive for many to upgrade? I still think WiiU can do well and as an early adopter Imhave decided yo hold off on ps4 until later next year....I plan to buy any good multiplats on WiiU and if there is something I want that isn't on it or is poorly done then I will look at it on ps360 or PC.

Maybe we're due for the mega-publisher bubble to burst, simply because it's become a management-heavy, money-leeching behemoth; an ugly caricature of capitalism in it's worst form, the monpoly.

Maybe we should look at the people who are interested in making their own kind of games, the indies, rather than what's a safe-bet for the shareholders.

The EAs of the world will go into receivership, whilst the indies will band together and form new companies which will do well until the dudes with the neatly parted hair and the MBAs move in to manage the finances... then it begins again.

...and Charlie the Unicorn says "Hi!"

Nintendo! is already doing good on there side From Games From Fire emblem, Luigis mansion2, Mario party 3D, SSB4, and many more games im not going to get in to, then they have already made Flipnote3D, Miiverse, and more apps and Just recently updated Plaza and saveback up. and this is just all 3ds Now WiiU Line up looks amazing and now they wanna make games Faster that Fans Demand and more 3rd Party.Nintendo! go for it yall are doing Amazing

@YChung ya, lets complain about Mario Kart 8 after the series being around since 1992, 21 years and 8 games, wow...that's just SOO many. Call of Duty has almost 20 games since 2003 (10 years!!!!!) GTA has 13 games since 1997 (16 years) Halo has 8 by next year, with one re-make already, within 12 years, I could go on ¬¬

Admit your sick of Nintendo right now because there not being traditional and boring like Playstation and Xbox. "Ohh wow, a high powered system with the same basic controller!" yup, I'm SO excited ¬¬ Video games in general have become predictable in general, so singling out Nintendo is definitely not fair.

@hydeks First of all, I apologise if I hit a nerve for calling you a deluded Nintendo fanboy. Wasn't intending to be insulting. Just came out like that for some reason. I do think alot of Nintendo Fans are though, keep bashing on 3rd party developers and placing the blame elsewhere when clearly Nintendo are the ones at fault. To say I'm trolling is laughable. Can a Nintendo game player not be dissatisifed with the current situation on Wii U and comment on it? It's because I care and I'm a Nintendo fan, that's the reason I even bother to comment. The only other console I've bought that was not a Nintendo system is the PS3. But I've owned the Nes, Snes, N64, Gamecube, Gameboy, Wii, Wii U, GBA SP, DS, and a 3DS. So tell me how is it possible that I'm trolling? Also, my avatar is obviously Fire Emblem inspired.

@GreatPlayer LOL, Lego City is nothing like the movie based Lego games. I don't care for those either.

@Fazermint and i agree it's just a shame that there isn't that many first party games either

i think Nintendo tried to beat Sony and MS to the next gen and kind of bit themselves in the a** by releasing it too early and with very little in the way of games

now i love my WiiU but i currently have nothing to play on it so it's just sitting there doing nothing and i think this is the same for many people (saving my money for a PS4 but even if i wasn't there are no new games out yet that i want)

i really hope that WiiU bounce back and become successful, but the outcome doesn't look good when everyone seems to be abandoning it