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Topic: Attach Rates are Stupid and Games Don't Need to Sell Millions

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Filth_Element

JaxonH wrote:

That may have been true during the Wii/Wii U era, but I don't think it holds any weight now. Unlike past consoles, Switch actually makes the other versions seem like the ones that are gimped. Even if I already own a game, I still want to buy it for Switch because in most cases, it's the first ever handheld version of that game released on the market. Disgaea 5, for example. Bought it on PS4, played it a little bit, but then it released on Switch with full parity to the PS4 version, alongside being a handheld version- and a full console quality handheld version of that.
So I think a lot of that conventional reasoning has gone right out the window this generation. Even if a game is releasing later on Switch, there hasn't been a single instance of a game where I wasn't willing to wait to get the better version
And it is for this reason that I believe we are going to see a lot more third-party support than we have in the last 10 years.

Um I was just reacting to what you said. Reread it and yeah I stand by my reaction, try reading it yourself. "Switch actually makes the other versions seem like the ones that are gimped."

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@crimsontadpoles
Costs same as Nintendo's last console, and the graphics look pretty good. Arms could pass for a PS4 game. So could Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. They were never gonna make a more powerful console than this. Maybe it woulda been $50 cheaper is all.

I mean, if $200 for a 3DS is ok, an extra hundred to have current gen consoles games is a no brainer imo. Even without the portability.

edit
I should point out, I had a 3DS too, obviously, but only took it with me on occasion. Usually when I was into a game like MH. But that all changed with Switch. Having full console games, real controller, and the ability to play with others and/or play online via hotspot makes all the difference.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

OorWullie

I'm with Jaxxon here.The Switch is the first console I've bought since the Gamecube that actually feels "next gen" to me.It and like a big upgrade.I never really had that feeling with my Wii or Wii U..The Wii U was my first HD console but after playing loads of HD games on my mates Xbox 360 for the previous 8 years,there was nothing impressive about it.The slow and clunky UI and Eshop meant it could never feel modern.The Switch though feels different.everything about it feels modern, it's a pleasure to use.Even though graphically it's no more than a souped up Wii U,it's versatility will impress anyone that gets that gets to spend some time with it.I've never really been much of a handheld gamer and if you asked me last month if I'd be playing it mostly docked or undocked,I'd have said 90% docked.Yet if I was to break it down now,I'd say 40% docked,40% handheld and 20% tabletop mode.I don't need to play it undocked or in tabletop mode but I do because I can and it's awesome.Zelda and Splatoon 2 on the TV with my Pro controller,ARMS on the TV with the Thumbs-up grip,MK8D sometimes on the TV with split Joy-con and other times on the handheld just because it looks and feels so good to play on the small screen,indie and arcade games on handheld,Puyo Puyo in handheld or tabletop mode with Joy-con in the grip,Namco Museum and the Psikyo games in TATE mode with split Joy-con.Having all these options to play my system combined with the silky smooth UI,faster loading times (most games,not all )and a stand by function allowing me to be back in my game in seconds makes this the nicest console I've ever had my hands on.Game-wise it's too early for me to say it's the best console I've ever owned but with the games I do already own and the ones I know are on the way,I'm fairly confident it could be.

Edited on by OorWullie

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skywake

Filth_Element wrote:

Um I was just reacting to what you said. Reread it and yeah I stand by my reaction, try reading it yourself. "Switch actually makes the other versions seem like the ones that are gimped."

I think you're missing the point here. When the Switch gets an equivalent version of a game? It's inevitably going to be the best platform to play the game on. Because of the extra convenience of the platform being portable. Frankly if given the option I'd buy the Switch version of a game over the PC version.

If the argument is that the Switch isn't as good because it lacks horsepower? Well that's a factor. But in general games that require more horsepower aren't going to be on Switch anyways. So it's a bit of a non-point really. But of course if a Switch v2 could run those games and got them I'd go for the Switch versions of those games also.

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Filth_Element

@skywake look I'm all for the Switch please don't misunderstand what I'm getting at. What I'm saying is that it will probs still really struggle to get that 3rd party support we all crave. If the Switch were to get something like Wolfenstien 2 or the next Battlefield you know big titles it will NOT be the best version available. Yes it may be portable and really good to be able to pick up your console and carry on playing but gameplay wise, graphically and content wise it will be a lesser version. I'm just as much a fan as you and love having console gaming on the go but I'm also realistic in looking at all the options on their merits and can see that some of what has been said is just fanboy chest beating.

I'm not trying offend anyone, not even @JaxonH, but what he was saying was utter rubbish. I hope we do see more 3rd party support than the last5 gens of Nintendo consoles have received but to say
"conventional reasoning has gone right out the window this generation."
Or
"it is for this reason that I believe we are going to see a lot more third-party support than we have in the last 10 years."
Because that argument doesn't hold any weight.
At least you @skywake have the sense to say
"Well if the game can run on the Switch that extra convenience makes the Switch the best place to have that game."
But what I'm saying is that is a big if.... and current games like Steep are proving that it is a big if. They are having trouble because they are having to downgrade to fit in with the Switch's hardware not because they are rubbish at their jobs.

Come on people I feel like I am on crazy pills here lol. I'm not trying to belittle the Switch or you just saying that's crazy talk.

Btw @skywake good choice in music! 😉

Edited on by Filth_Element

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@Filth_Element
What I was saying was not rubbish. You're misconstruing things that I never said.

I absolutely 100% believe we will see more third-party support then we saw on Wii or Wii U. I'm not talking about the shovelware, I'm talking real games. If you want to say that's rubbish, then come see me in three years and we shall see who was right.

And I absolutely 100% believe that conventional thinking has gone out the window because in prior generations there was no legitimate reason to buy a game on a Nintendo console but now it's all you hear people say. Everybody wants to play the games they love on the Switch. That's an undeniable fact- you see it everywhere. Here on the site, on Reddit, even in real life with practically every person I know. Everybody wants their favorite games on this system. Because on this system you can play it anywhere.

You're totally out of touch with reality if you can't see what's going on. People love this thing and they want all their fave games on it.

You see articles and discussion like this popping up ever since launch

https://www.technobuffalo.com/2017/06/09/great-now-i-want-eve...

http://www.businessinsider.com/nintendo-switch-makes-video-ga...

and I quote, "Every video game ever made is better, or would be better, on the Nintendo Switch. All of them. Full stop."

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

rallydefault

@Filth_Element
I'm kind of in the boat that a graphical downgrade of an otherwise same game would be fine for me to have it portable (like what we're seeing with stuff like NBA Playgrounds, Yooka Laylee, etc.).

But I do agree that we all need to realize not everything will be able to run on the Switch. The next Wolfenstein, like you said....yea, not happening on Switch lol Even though so far the Switch has been successful against the cries of internet trolls everywhere (lol), it still cannot break the wall of tech spec impossibilities.

Though I will say, the trend with a lot of popular games lately has been less reliance on graphics. Even in the PC world some of the most-played/viewed/popular games are pretty meager in the graphics department (talking stuff like Dota2, League, Hearthstone, Counterstrike, Overwatch, and even Player Unknown's Battlegrounds). It's kind of funny that the "PC Master Race" with our beast machines that can hack satellites (joking, of course...??? haha) still just prefer playing matches of Dota2 and League, games that use graphics that could most definitely be achieved on Switch hardware.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

Filth_Element

@JaxonH lol. Okay man sure thing I obviously am misconstrueing what your saying even though I am trying to systematically go through your points and coming up with counter arguments. And even your response includes all the statements I take issue with but whatever your not listening and I'm not going to argue over moot points. We shall just have to see in 3yrs, like you say, how much of that 3 party support the Switch has received is actually shovelware or 'real games' as you put it.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@Filth_Element
I never said it was going to have the kind of support PS4 or Xbox has. I said it would have more than Wii or Wii U. And I think it'll already surpass Wii U's support by the end of this year so I really don't see how you would want to argue with that statement

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

Filth_Element

@rallydefault I too would pick up a Switch game over another console but it's not always just graphical downgrades is it... NBA Playgrounds doesn't have all the same players as other consoles (I have the Switch version though lol). For that game it's not too bad but for others the big games or so called 'real games' I'd struggle to justify purschasing it just for portability, it's also game dependent I guess. A big online shooter for instance would be awesome portable but not at the expense of frame rate, downgraded graphics and other possible compromises.

But I do appreciate someone seems to understand my ramblings. Lol

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

Filth_Element

@JaxonH Wii U struggled for 3rd party support but the Wii?...... If the Switch receives support it's not the 'real games' you speak of unless your talking about games like Puyo Puyo and Namco Museum etc.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@Filth_Element
Ehhh... Wii was notorious for not getting that many actual core games. Majority of it was stuff like carnival games. I mean, it got a decent amount but a lot of people didn't bring their games because it was a far larger gap in power, had a mandatory alien control scheme without dual analog, and a far more casual audience. Switch is much closer to its competitors, has normal controls and is already setting a trend for higher than expected sales from a core audience who actually buys games. And, most importantly, it's a system everyone wants to see all their favorite games on (as evidenced in the links provided). Which means demand. Whereas before people didn't really have a reason to buy 3rd party games, now people have a very legit reason. Which means a smaller install base can yield just as many if not more sales.

Edited on by JaxonH

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

Filth_Element

@JaxonH yeah I know that's kinda what I'm saying that there may be 3rd party games coming to Switch but so far it is very close to that same support the Wii received. I'm still not seeing the evidence of 'real games' coming to the system, your Disgea 5 for instance is a bit like Batman Armored Edition and Splintercell on Wii U, early good signs which may well fall away as time goes on. They also games which can run on the system but there is gonna be a whole lot more over the years which I think we see miss the Switch completely because of the difference in tech.

Like I say I'm trying to argue with you I'm just don't think everything your saying is possible.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@Filth_Element
Oh, without a doubt a great many games will miss the system. But unlike the Wii U, Switch isn't gonna fall off. There's far too much awareness and far too much interest- insane amounts of interest to the point people are rushing out to buy one who haven't owned a Nintendo console in a decade or more. Whereas Wii U started strong and fell off a cliff, I think we're going to see the exact opposite here. Switch starts off slow due to the post-Wii U hesitation, but as the system continues to sell and spread like wild fire is going to be a considerable mad dash of publishers looking for an additional revenue stream. Not every game will make it but if even 10% of the third-party games out there started coming to the system by the time it hits its prime it will, without question, surpass its predecessors

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

Filth_Element

Um sorry to OP as I think we have kinda taken over here🤗

@JaxonH lol see now what your saying is fine. I don't think I misconstrued what you originally posted I think you didn't make it clear enough, but no matter. I think you and I are on the same side just differing views, maybe we see 'real games' as different things.

Let me try and be clear, I love a good variety of games not so much the kind of bro games Battlefield/COD, etc but I see that as the AAA titles. I'm excited for Red Dead Redemption 2 and Wolfenstien 2 (imo the real games the biggies) but also excited for games like Mario+Rabbids etc. I'm just saying if I want to play games like RDR2 I have a snowballs chance of playing it on my Switch (I'd be over the moon with a RDR port of the first one though😍). Games like Disgea 5 I kinda see as peripheral interest games not big AAA but again that's me, and maybe that's where our differing opinions clash...

So what are you thinking is the real games you expect to see?

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

JaxonH

@Filth_Element
I think we're gonna get a ton of Japanese games- your Dragon Quest X, Dragon Quest XI, DQ Heroes 1/2, DQ Builders, I think we'll see some Final Fantasy spin offs or ports, a whole slew of Koei Tecmo releases, Atlus will surely jump on board (already announced Shin Megami Tensei), Monster Hunter (more than just MHXX), NIS will load it up, Sega and Idea Factory and Bandai Namco will bring a variety of games (Tales and Neptunia and who knows what else), Resident Evil games, Sonic games, another Street Fighter, Platinum will bring 2 or 3 titles over, Square Enix (already Lost Sphear and Project Octopath Traveller, and that's above and beyond stuff like DQ or FF, might see a new Bravely Default or even Rise of the Tomb Raider), soccer, basketball, wrestling, football, Konami with a 2D Castlevania, Skyrim but maybe Fallout 4 if it does well, Dark Souls games, a variety of Ubisoft releases (Steep, Rayman, Mario Kingdom Battle, and that's just first 6-9 months), EA might bring over Mass Effect Trilogy or some other select games later once the install base grows, might see some surprises from TakeTwo, Level-5 will load it up like they did 3DS, every acclaimed mid-market indie will be coming to Switch (stuff like Hollow Knight and Stardew Valley)...

But I'm just speculating based on an educated guess- whatever we end up actually seeing could be far different with a number of games no one foresaw.

PLAYING
NS: METROID DREAD (10/10 muah!)
3DS:
Steam:
PS5:
MOST EXCITED FOR
NS: SMTV, Bayonetta 3, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, MH Rise Sunbreak, Zelda BotW 2, Metroid Prime 4

Jesus is Lord.

Filth_Element

@JaxonH righto yeah ok when you say real games I took it as big AAA releases. Not that the games you mentioned are bad just, in my eyes, they are niche titles. I hope your right though I'd be excited for some of those.

Some of Mario Odyssey is seriously giving heart palpitations.... that plumber is trying to kill me!

skywake

Filth_Element wrote:

But what I'm saying is that is a big if.... and current games like Steep are proving that it is a big if. They are having trouble because they are having to downgrade to fit in with the Switch's hardware not because they are rubbish at their jobs.

It is a big if but it's the if that's the basis of the original point. I'm thinking about the games that are on all platforms not the games that the Switch is missing out on. The Switch may not be that capable but it's capable enough that if it gets a game that game should run well enough that the Switch version, being portable, is going to be the version to get.

To get a bit more specific I'm thinking about games like Rocket League, Rayman Legends, Yooka-Laylee, Skyrim, RE-Revelations, RIME, Steep etc. If and when games appear on Switch? As long as they exist and run at a decent framerate the Switch version will, IMO, be the version to get. Because the Switch gives you more flexibility in how you play it. If the next Tomb Raider or whatever comes to Switch? I'm getting the Switch version.

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Haru17

@JaxonH I just want to reinforce the notion that the Switch controller — even in portable mode — feels soooo much nicer than the 3DS which always made my hands cramp. And the Pro controller is so good I wish I could play Monster Hunter: World with it (+ a headphone jack that doesn't require an extension cord). The PS4 controller wastes too much space with the touchbar, itself less responsive than a button or even a good trackpad; has Playstation's stupid parallel joysticks; and has the ends of the handles way too thick compared to a Pro.

I think we should revisit this topic not in the Switch's launch year, lol. You can't expect every game to come in the first 10 months. It's not an issue of companies caring too much about attach rates, it's probably you (the general you) and your impatience.

Edited on by Haru17

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

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