Topic: Option to run Switch 1 games in docked mode on Switch 2

I know I'm not alone in thinking this... the Switch 2 is much more powerful than the Switch 1. There should be a system option with a per-game override to allow running the Switch 1 game in docked mode. This would render the game at 1080P - the Switch 2 native screen resolution.

This would drain the Switch 2 battery more quickly, which is probably why it isn't the default. But giving us the option would be nice - especially if the Switch 2 is plugged in!

It's based on the software itself you can't upgrade unless the Devs make patches to run higher frame rates.

I was confused about dynamic scaling looking at some of the reviews on youtube. Many Switch 1 games downscale to keep frame rates up like 360p and 540p and some actually won't render any higher than 540p. I wonder if any Switch 1 games keep to higher resolutions on Switch 2 and are effectively higher resolution in portable mode just because dynamic scaling is less aggressive. Some of the youtube videos seem to say they don't and its just a frame rate increase. Maybe Switch 1 games are pre-programmed to drop resolution in more difficult areas of game worlds.

The Switch 2 OS can lie to the Switch 1 game and claim to be docked even when it is not. No game changes required.

It’s entirely possible that “lying” to the switch 1 game like that could have other consequences, after all being docked or handheld is not as simple as just choosing what output to use; there may be other internal features that could get disabled or enabled when you go docked.

We can assume that if it was a simple solution, they would’ve done it already.

@Eel But that's the point... we want the higher resolution from Switch 1 games on the Switch 2 when undocked. So those "other things" are precisely the desired behavior.

Your assumption that Nintendo didn't choose to ignore this potential feature because they want to sell $10 upgrades is... very kind towards the company.

@Mellified ? That’s not what I said at all.

What I said is that tricking the switch software into thinking the handheld S2 is a docked S1 may not be the easy simple solution it sounds like, because chances are it would just do that already.

(And regardless, they would still need to update the software to make use of the docked S2 capabilities)

Switch 1 emulators always run in "docked" mode, so it really does seem to be that simple. Your suggestion that it may not be "the easy simple solution" is assuming best intentions by Nintendo. I think they failed to do this because they want to sell more $10 upgrades to us.

But yes - in order for Switch 1 games to take full advantage of the Switch 2 a game update would be required in most cases.

@Mellified
There are additional differences between docked and portable like the accessibility of the touch screen, supported audio modes, availability of USB ports. Also just straight up which display you're outputting to. For most games these things won't matter. But most is not all and by allowing this additional variable you add to the complexity of testing backwards compatibility

Software is complicated, small changes can create unpredictable results. They could enable this kind of thing but, one assumes, they would have to go through game-by-game to check it doesn't result in unexpected behaviour

I think emulators are configurable. You set the options based on how powerful the computer and what features the computer itself has. You may need to set to lower settings in line with portable mode. If you have integrated graphics of lowish performance then your only option is graphics inline with portable mode. An internal GPU of lets say 300 Gflops would struggle to emulate a 400 Gflop GPU but could do a GPU that is around 60-140 Gflops in portable mode in reality with good vulkan support. Lots of people have older or entry level computers which need the lower settings.

@BonzoBanana
I think more to the point allowing people to messing with settings on an unofficial piece of software you didn't pay for is very different to forcing an option you know might occasionally break things on a commercial product

Also I would highlight the number of games that run better on Switch 2 with no charge. Despite the "they want to charge $10 for upgrades" bit @Mellified is pushing. Case and point on the front page of the site ATM, those free updates. A lot of those games are pushing well beyond 1080p. Some are doing 4K native. If greed was the play why give a free update for Echoes of Wisdom that boosts some parts of the game running at 720p at an unstable 60fps on Switch to a stable 60fps at upto 1800p?

Which is why I suggested making it a user-configurable option both at the system level and a per-game override. Much like how Sony did their performance boost with the PS4 Pro. If it doesn't work as expected with a particular game then the customer has the power to control this feature.

Seeing as Nintendo allowed sub-par experiences like Batman to ship on the Switch 1 they clearly don't care about a consistent customer experience. Suggesting they would hold this back for testing seems absurd.

I don't know how it is nowadays but back when Switch launched, you could release a game that is exclusively for handheld play. I know Lightseekers could only be played in handheld mode using the touch screen at first. Forcing such game to TV mode would render the game unplayable.

Some games support both standard controls and touch screen. Developers have a way to differentiate which mode their game is in, but do they technically allow touch screen controls while in TV mode, even though it's impossible to use the touch screen while the console is docked, or do they only enable touch controls while in handheld mode? I'd imagine access to touch screen is either controlled on hardware level or it's up to each developer to handle touch controls the way they want. Some game could check if the game is running in handheld mode, the machine would lie and say no, and so the code doesn't bother enabling touch controls.

Then there are entire game modes that are only available in certain configurations. I had a game to try this with. In 51 Worldwide Games, Mosaic Mode is disabled while connected to TV. Funnily enough, you can select Mosaic Mode in handheld mode and connect to TV afterwards. It doesn't automatically kick you out of the next menu. There might still be more checks further on but I don't have the means to test it.

What I'm trying to say is that it probably isn't as simple as one would first think. And I know we are talking about an option, but I don't think any option should be able to render a game unplayable or make them behave in unexpected ways. At the very least, running in handheld mode would still need to be the default option. Running in docked mode would probably end up feeling like a hack and it'd just confuse your average customer.

@Mellified
Nintendo doesn't control what state third party games release in. But they do control what system level features are available and how they present them. Broadly Switch backwards compatibility on Switch 2 has been fantastic. Top tier stuff. As such I don't think it's fair to complain about what it doesn't do given overall it has significantly exceeded most people's expectations

All I'm saying is that adding additional options for end users adds additional complexity. It may work for most titles. It may just outright break things in unexpected ways. There are games that have Switch 2 compatibility issues which seem to go away if you have flight mode enabled. There are others that seem to hang when loading stages. Others have seemingly unexplained crashes. For all we know allowing such a feature would break games in unexpected ways

It's all good and well to say "let the user have the power to control it". And I'm all for that. But also, if they did you'd probably be on here complaining that in some games you get a blank screen when you dock the console or that some games have graphical glitches in portable mode. Who knows

It's like Wii games on the Wii U. At launch it was just a mode you booted into. By the end you could buy Wii games in the eShop and play Wii games off TV. Some of them with the GamePad behaving as a Classic Controller. Better to release a stable product and then expand then to release an expansive product and then make it stable

Exactly. Nintendo tested the library of games and published a list. They easily could have done the same for a "S1 games always docked" feature like I describe. They chose not to do so in favor of free and paid upgrades - but there are thousands of Switch 1 games that are effectively abandoned. They will never get patches from their developers. Nintendo could have improved that situation by allowing docked mode as I described.

@Mellified
Again, if they did you would be on here complaining about compatibility issues. What they've delivered here is pretty fantastic, I see little reason to be complaining. I would expect it to continue to improve over time

Also if you are going to reply to me don't cherry pick one point. You keep claiming that this is some kind of greedy move to force people into paid updates. I don't see how that could be the case given the number of free updates coming out that do substantially more than just force Switch docked mode. It's a nonsense argument

You keep pointing out the free updates. But that's for a few dozen games out of thousands.

I am credited in 25 AAA games. I quit the game industry after 30 years because of the disgusting greed of publishers. I've watched a hobby I love sink into gacha and loot box mechanics. So yes, I am pre-disposed to think the worst of Nintendo and other publishers.

The only reason so many games work well with the updated Switch 2 hardware is because so many game engines are build with automatic performance scaling - in part to handle what a performance turd the original Switch was while shipping the same code on other consoles and PC. So if you give these resource starved games the much improved Switch 2 hardware they perform the way they would on other consoles. Except they lack 4K and HDR visuals, since that was never an option on the Switch 1.

You mentioned that "Nintendo doesn't control what state third party games release in." But console companies charge developers for testing of patches - pass or fail. They do control this as long as games meet the standards set by Nintendo. Nintendo could have announced to developers last year that those standards would change to require better support for a virtual docked mode without disclosing the Switch 2 and backward compatibility.

The fact is that a docked feature like I describe would bring free upgrade patches to almost the entire library with zero developer effort. If it were off by default with a big warning it would be very doable. Nintendo could also have an exclusion list so the feature is automatically disabled for known problematic titles. This approach would be the same amount of work as the current backward compatibility testing.

Ultimately the current approach to backward compatibility leaves the door open for game publishers to sell paid upgrades and remasters in the future. You can play the ugly Switch 1 version - now with decent framerate on Switch 2 - or buy the improved S2 version at full price. Just look at Disgaea 7.

@Mellified ooh what AAA have you worked on? Genuine curiosity.

@Mellified
Firstly nothing is stopping developers and publishers from charging whatever they want for Switch 2 editions or remasters should they wish to. They can do and charge for whatever they want. No features of BC will stop that. And frankly docked mode for Switch games on Switch 2 in handheld is very, very short of what I would consider paying for anyways. Noting that a lot of the Switch 2 patches, paid or otherwise, are pushing the games well beyond 1080p docked. What your suggesting, while better, still falls well short of that

Also this mode you are suggesting here would not unlock HDR or 4K. I don't know why you bring this up. And you're also suggesting that Nintendo should've gone and mandated compatibility with a feature not yet existing for patches before release? Well cool, now you've added additional burdens on studios before they could've shipped patches on Switch

Lastly, this notion that there would be no additional testing required because they're testing the games anyway? That's now how that works. You've added an additional variable to the equation. You've now doubled the amount of testing required. You say "put a warning on it". Ok cool. Now you have a broken feature people are going to enable and you've added a bunch of complaints and support requests

As I said, the backwards compatibility on Switch 2 is great. It has also only been out for less than a month. I agree it would be nice if Switch games ran at their docked resolutions in portable mode on Switch 2. But I also don't see reason to complain about the fact that it lacks what is ultimately a fairly marginal improvement

I'd much rather they spend their energy on improving compatibility and for studios to continue releasing actual significant performance upgrades that significantly improve visual quality well beyond "Switch docked mode"

Send an email to the dev a let them know you’d like to see an update for Switch 2 upgraded features. That’s the only route