Paper Mario: The Origami King Has The Best US Launch For The Series To Date, NPD Charts Reveal

I guess big install base + no other games on the horizon = good launch

We know how many physical copoes they sold in each region for July. It wasnt a huge success xD. Also, beating first month launches for paper mario? Just sell more than 150k copies and you are done. This report is misleading in many ways.

The game flopped

@Archius9,

Why do people not want to give credit for anything?, there are loads of games on the Switch, so the potential audience will not be buying this or any other game based purely on there is nothing else to play.

@Fulgor_Astral

You got any numbers to back up your claims here?

I'll be waiting, my boi.

Many will disagree (mainly people who haven't even played that game) but in my opinion The Origami King is a very good and fun game and I really enjoyed playing it

Doesn't surprise me. It's by far the best paper mario with the best battle system to date.

Almost everything Nintendo-wise sells better on Switch than previous platforms, so that's not a surprise.

I do hope it does well overall, though. it's an excellent little game.

I'm really enjoying it so far

@PoopScoop I thought the same about Pokemon SwSh, I mean these games sold already like crazy but now imagine how good these games would have sold if GF had put more work/time into them (like Nintendo did with BotW)

@Fulgor_Astral Your comment is like reading the weather report saying that today it'll be hot and sunny and you saying no, it'll be cloudy full of tornadoes, cataclysmic rain, tsunamis and a 9,5 Richter scale earthquake to top it all.

Meh. All this tells me is that this will let Nintendo know that it's okay to cut back on creativity and still sell a lot, meaning the franchise will never go back to actually being good again.

It's unfortunate, but hey. Good for you people who are capable of enjoying this game.

No surprise. Fantastic game

People do seem to like this game. Idk why diehards can't accept that...

Well, there was no game in the horizon coming out, and the switch is a very popular console so I could see why.

@Yosher

You're never getting TTYD 2, so I'm sorry you're so hurt about it, but It's time to grow up and let it go.

Origami King is good on its own terms.

@Yosher I get what you’re saying, but just because the game wasn’t what you wanted doesn’t mean it was a bad game. In fact, saying it that way makes you seem ungrateful.

All I’m saying is that people can’t hate on The Origami King for no reason other than the battle system. It makes for a very unrealistic and flawed argument.

Isn't that basically true for every game from a major Nintendo series on the Switch?

A clean, clear indicator that Sales and Quality don't necessarily correlate.

Paper Mario The Origami King sold over 300,000 retail copies last month in the US. Adding in digital sales should put that figure at 450,000 - 500,000.

Massive debut for the series.

@JuiceMan_V Never say never. Nintendo is pretty good about curveballs, you know Miyamoto isn't going to like all the whining articles, and every other reviewer is ripping into the game for things like no partners and too many Toads.

Not surprised GoT (Ghosts of Tsushima, noy Game of Thrones) is on top either

@KingBowser86 : just look at popular music and tv shows to know that popularity doesn’t always equate to quality

@KingBowser86 Just because you're not a fan of the new style doesn't automatically make it low quality. Plenty of people love this game, myself included, and this is coming from someone who also loves TTYD.

@KingBowser86

Is the game perfect? No.

The game is generally liked tho, so whatever you think, you're in the clear minority.

Not sure why you folks can't let this game live and be decent on It's own merits.

Like I said before, TTYD isn't coming back.

@JuiceMan_V I don't need TTYD 2. Super Paper Mario was still great in its own right and definitely was not TTYD 2. It was different, but still had the soul of the series. I simply want the series to return to having proper RPG elements, I want the series to have fun, unique characters again, and memorable bosses that are not objects like pencil boxes etc. That's not too much to ask is it??

@Apportal See above. Plus, I'm not ungrateful. Ungrateful would be if they gave me this game for free and I still whined about it. This is, for all intents and purposes, a 60 dollar game, and it is not worth that much money in my eyes. And the above describes a lot more issues I have with this game than just the battle system. The series has lost its soul as far as I'm concerned and it just makes me sad and I wish Nintendo would take fan criticism to heart for once.

I'll probably pick it up sometime if I can get it for dirt cheap but it's really not worth much in my eyes. If you have a problem with me not liking the game though, then simply ignore me or something. I'm not stopping you from enjoying it.

Wow the complainers desperate for a TTYD follow up are still complaining because Nintendo wont give them exactly what they want and they want it now otherwise they are going to have a massive tantrum in every comment section you can find. You know what we get it you prefer the old game, for what it's worth I loved TTYD as well, but it's been twenty years it's time to move on. TOK was an excellent game and there are so many people out there enjoying it.

@Yosher well... that was really well made reply. I don’t really have much to say. Good job I get where you are coming from.

@Yosher

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but until you actually play the game and have a decent point of reference, all you're doing is complaining about missing how things used to be 🤷‍♂️

It's okay to embrace change sometimes, my boi.

The comments have been super predictable. Like the neighbor’s dog barking when you walk by. Like gravity. Like the sun rising. yay.

Keep trying to invalidate this game lol. It’s good, and launched well because it looked good.

@Yosher
How can you imply that TOK doesn't have the soul of the series if you've never played it? It has humor, charm, exploration, puzzles, platforming and partners (its own version but more memorable than the forgettable Pixls).

In my opinion, TOK is a better game than SPM. Not better than the first two, but deserves credit where credit is due.

Expected, the game is on the Switch. I played and it was mediocre. Mediocre games still do well on the Switch.

Not surprising. You can give Thousand-Year Door all the praise it deserves, but it was still stuck on that silly lunchbox system that didn't perform as well as the Switch is now. It makes sense that Origami King is seeing better sales, since it has a broader audience.

@JuiceMan_V Thing is, I tried to accept the change in Sticker Star. I tried to accept the change in Color Splash. Both games just left me incredibly disappointed, and just made me think, ''this is what's become of Paper Mario?''. It is literally impossible for me to enjoy because they took away so much that I loved about the series to begin with.

It's like you get your favourite pizza, but they took away all the tastiest ingredients and then just tossed random things on there just for the sake of change. Sure it can still taste good and others will certainly claim the new style is so much better, but it is no longer your favourite pizza, and eating it will just make you miss what you can no longer have because the new pizza is the new standard.

And like I said. I still quite enjoyed Super Paper Mario. And that was definitely a different beast altogether from what the first two games set as well.

@Reploid I'll admit that I can't form a full opinion on the game until I've actually played it, which is why I still want to get it at SOME point when I can get it cheap. My problem is that I've already tried both Sticker Star and Color Splash, and what I have seen of TOK from screenshots and trailers seems to simply be building up on what SS and CS set, which is utter, soulless disappointment to me. Maybe when I eventually do get it I will be pleasantly surprised, but I really am not counting on it based on recent experiences with the series and impressions from trailers and such.

All this positivity about Origami King makes me want to play it, even though I usually consider games like this a no-go if I don't enjoy the battle system. Maybe I would.

Actually, I've kind of been wanting to try out Sticker Star for a while now, to see if it's really that bad. (I have a feeling it's at least decent.)

@Archius9
Be honest, do you really believe this nonsense? 🙂

I believe that Paper Mario series would benefit from leaving the old RPG battle system behind. It would make it more approachable to the wider audience.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Super Paper Mario for Wii is the best selling Paper title. Of course, there are a ton of other factors to consider when making this statement, but the fact still stands it outsold other Paper titles.

@Yosher
Cut back on creativity? What exactly isn't creative about TOK?

@Cynas
But you can not like The Origami King if you like TTYD. That's ABSOLUTELY impossible. 🤪

Well, that's a bummer for me. I was honestly hoping Colour Splash not doing so good would force Nintendo to rethink the approach for the series, but clearly it didn't, and now we are stuck in this direction.

I admittedly have not played this game yet, but I have played Sticker Star, and am trying to force myself to complete Colour Splash, and my experience with both have soured my enthusiasm for this game as this game looks way too similar. Perhaps this game is somehow good, but I cannot convince myself to spend £50-60 to find out for myself when past experience has shown that I am likely to be disappointed. If you are enjoying it, cool. But I think I am done with this series.

I see the down playing has already started. 🙄

Great to see the game do well, still need to play it myself.

Oh, don't encourage them.

@MrBlacky the Switch's install base is definitely why. The game is good, i'm really enjoying it at least. But there was a lot of apprehension based on previous releases but also as many Switch owners won't have played a Paper Mario on Wii U or 3DS this might be an entirely new IP.
I threw in the nothing on the horizon because i'm sour but if the Switch was as popular as Wii U the release would have also been similar

@Archius9 Or people actually like the game... Why is it always the worse case scenario, glass half empty with this audience?

@AJDarkstar Well good, because then you'd also know that they largely stick around for only one scenario (meaning that they don't add to the depth of combat options) and have the absolute minimum as far as individuality goes (which is just shoddy writing that's even more boring for the player).
@JuiceMan_V In the same way that people "generally like" overcooked Chicken McNuggets, I suppose. "Serviceable" is not the same as high quality.
@Cynas Generally speaking, you're correct. I might not agree with an overall direction of a game, and that's fine.
But recent PM doesn't even execute its approach well. And I know it's blatantly a problem when outlets like Zero Punctuation and ScreenRant notice it. Humor in the writing is about the only thing this TOK seemed to improve upon.

@Yosher
I completely understand where you're coming from. I was getting SS and CS vibes from TOK, too.

While there's still a chance you'll dislike the game after you try it, I hope that you are pleasantly surprised by what it has to offer.

@Archius9
This "it sells just because there is nothing else" nonsense is mostly coming for games, of which people won't see why it sells, because they think the game is bad or isn't one of there favorite ones.

@MrBlacky mate. I like the game. And nothing else is/was coming at that point

@MrBlacky They're deliberately preventing the developers from making fun and unique variations on the usual Mario cast and forcing them all to look like one another with sometimes just a little bit of an outfit change.

Here's Jolene, a Toad character from TTYD. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/papermario/images/c/c7/Jolene.png/revision/latest?cb=20190603024834

Now imagine her without the hair and the usual bland Toad face. Probably regular Toad 'shoes' too. This is the best you're gonna get in TOK from what I've seen. They can still give them unique personalities in text form but if they're all just gonna look like carbon copies like that with only some outfit changes here and there, the characters will just feel incredibly bland.

It's probably also an issue of, 'they once did this, and now they do it like this' kind of deal; if they never gave any characters fun and unique designs to begin with in past Paper Mario games, then we probably wouldn't know what we'd be missing and it wouldn't be as much of a big deal. But now they're deliberately trying NOT to do that anymore and that is incredibly infuriating.

And this does not only count for NPCs, it counts for bosses too. You can't possibly tell me a pencil box or a tape dispenser make for better bosses than a wrestling hawk, a demented jester, an egyptian Koopa, or even massive dragons that break the fourth wall and eat the audience to regain their hit points.

Heck, Yoshi's Crafted World had 'things' as bosses too but at least there they were shifted into actual fun looking enemies rather than just literally being the thing. The only thing that came any kind of close in TOK was that rubber band man (from what I've seen in trailers, anyway), and even that one doesn't even come close to what would be considered a fun boss design. But hey, maybe you love fighting these generic objects, and if so, more power to you.

@Reploid That remains to be seen for when I eventually do get it. I'll be honest, I do hope I'll end up enjoying it too, because I really do want to love Paper Mario again. I just unfortunately do not see myself enjoying any more new entries in the series if they keep going like this. But you never know, I suppose.

I expected as much.

The best selling Paper Mario game is on the Wii: 4,23 million copies.
It’s not a easy task for the Origami King to beat.

@JuiceMan_V "Until you've played a game"
"Until you've eaten this specific turd, you won't generally know how turds taste."
That's you. That's how you sound. Anyone that's followed Paper Mario for a necessary length of time knows how Gameplay Element X or Design Choice Y is going to affect the overall quality of the game.
And since you're going to be even more biased than the people you're replying to, there's just no need for me to hear from you any further.

@NinChocolate I’m so sorry you’re too good for us.

@IronMan30 Because fans often like to believe that they represent the majority of consumers when in reality that's not the case
They also don't like it when their beliefs and worldview are being challenged

@Yosher
Sadly, even if you get the game some day you probably will never enjoy it, because your mind is already set that way. You'll play it and instead of seeing the good things, you will always search and cling to the bad or not so good things.

@Aeleron0X I shouldn't have said "Idk why" because I do. Lol, people are set in their ways and can't just admit that things can change but still be good.

@Archius9
So again: You say it just sells, because there is nothing else to buy?

@KingBowser86. It doesn’t matter how many walkthroughs or trailers you see. How you feel about it, or how you think it will play out, you will never, ever, ever know what a game will truly be unless you try it.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Your opinion is not a fact that we have to be a slave too. Maybe next time you want to start a fight with innocent people who love a random game, how about you have a good and valid point beforehand?

Impressive for Paper Mario indeed. What's more amazing and truly a testament to the quality of Nintendo's 1st party games is their "evergreen" nature when it comes to sales. Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Smash Bros. Ultimate and New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, all older games, all still in the Top 20 bestselling games.

@IronMan30 💯 agree. Think of our world nowadays. Can boomers honestly say that their world is better than our new generation? Change is good. And if those trolls can’t understand that, then they’re going to have a hard time with things later on.

@MrBlacky Probably, yeah. Because I know how wonderful Paper Mario used to be. And a lot of the reasons I had for loving the Paper Mario series to begin with have all been tarnished with this new direction. It is very unfortunate. I'm glad there's still many people who are still able to enjoy the new games though, but that's not gonna help me enjoy it personally.

@Yosher I've previously only played Sticker Star in the PM series, which was a huge disappointment. I completed The Origami King yesterday and thought it was fantastic! Not perfect, but I would give it a 9/10. To say it is bland and uninspired is far from the truth! It has so much colour and character that it was a joy to play.

The cast is charming and memorable, especially the companion Olivia, and the dialouge is witty and fun.

The regular battles are the only minus, but the game isn't centered around them. And the boss battles are exciting and creative! The world is fantastic, seamless and full of things to explore.

If we're talking about Sticker Star, I would agree that that one is bland and unremarkable. But The Origami King is creativity on full display! It's not half-arsed.

I'll admit I haven't played the previous games, and they do sound fantastic, even like 10/10's! But TOK is great in it's own right. It's not another Sticker Star. If it was, I wouldn't have bothered with finishing it.

This is just me saying that you should at least try it. You might end up hating it, what do I know? But you might also enjoy it on its own merits.

Edit: I forgot to mention the graphics and especially the music! This game looks and sounds gorgeous. A feast for both eyes and ears.

This is good for me because I love the game
but it's bad for the ttyd fans who want nothing but that

Also, beating first month launches for paper mario? Just sell more than 150k copies and you are done. This report is misleading in many ways.
The game flopped

@Fulgor_Astral I've seen your posts before and didn't scent a troll, so, let me ask you... is this a joke? This game - not a flagship Mario or Zelda title - sold more at launch in the US than The Last of Us 2 did in the latter's first full month on the market. I would not have predicted that...

(I've no dog in this fight - haven't played the game, have no plan to)

I'm just glad the numbers disprove the few vocal "fans" assumption that everyone wants the same old basic RPG. I for one I'm glad all the newer entries in the series have focused more on the adventure and streamlined the gameplay while still providing unique stories and settings to explore and get immersed in.

@MrBlacky A lot of the time when people say "there is nothing else to buy", they refer to themselves and assume that the other 61 million people also have nothing to buy, like everyone has the same issue as them. Again it's a classic case of people failing to see the difference between "I" and "We". These people only speak for themselves.

Someone picks up a brand new Switch today. Have they got nothing to play? They have tons to play, I still have tons of games I've never touched, they need to keep their crying to themselves.

It'll be a bit before I pick up TOK. Not because I don't want it, but because I've only had my Switch for a few months and am still catching up lol. The good news is that, on the retail front, I've picked up every pre-2019 game I want.

I'm willing to give it a chance at any rate. If I like it, I like it. If I don't, I don't. /shrug

@Quarth Thank you for your opinion! I'm happy that you've been able to enjoy it so much!

Regarding the graphics.. yeah they look nice, but what I don't like is how all the characters are essentially animated frame-by-frame rather than the smooth animations TTYD and Super Paper Mario had. Same goes for the white outlines on characters; it looks dumb and ruins the immersion. I know this is a stylistic choice but I don't like it. And based on trailers, Olivia also doesn't really stand out much to me.. nor do any other characters for that matter. But that might simply be a matter of 'growing on me'; wouldn't be the first time characters have grown on me over time. However, I agree that, at least from a visual standpoint, the rest of the game (from what I've seen, anyway), does look pretty lovely.

I can't comment on the music; I do love me some video game music but ultimately this is not what I buy a video game for, and I haven't heard any music from the game yet beyond what was used in trailers, and that didn't exactly get me jammin' or anything. Of course, music used in trailers is only the tip of the iceberg, so perhaps that will change once I get the game. I could easily YouTube the OST of course, but I'd rather keep the soundtrack a surprise for when I do play it myself.

I have already stated before that I would like to purchase it later down the line when it's cheaper. Half price at MOST though. I do really hope I'll enjoy the game, but it's not worth a full-price gamble for me, especially after two full-price gambles with both previous titles that ended up being massive disappointments to me.

If I do end up enjoying this game though, I will most likely buy the NEXT Paper Mario game full-price again. It is rather unlikely, though.

Mario game performs moderately well on Nintendo's hottest console since the Wii.

@Apportal The pacing might turn out different than one can gleam, absolutely. The satisfaction of the conclusion of the tale could be greater than the sum of the generic-seeming parts on display, definitely. But if you're turned off by an alternative combat system or some other static game element, you do NOT need to play a game to discern that those things will disappoint you. I can see that a banana has brown spots and know that it won't taste good. It could be smaller and sweeter because it's from the far off land of Bananaperfection, I don't care - I don't need to eat it to see that it has issues.

And if there's anyone that's a "slave" to any given design approach right now, it's the people that'd prefer a more traditional RPG style who are up against both a blindly loyal fanbase and a large overseas company that has very little incentive to improve its work based upon feedback when faced with the cost efficiency of churning out the same game combined with the safe sales figures that come with a safely-estimable army of blind consumers that will buy whatever product they output. Now THAT'S a fight, and don't give me some BS innocent line when they're equally biased towards their preferred game direction on the whole as well.

I was right about amiibo Festival, I was right about Miitomo, I was right about Star Fox Zero and Sticker Star AND Color Splash, I was fairly accurate in my estimation of Splatoon 2 launch sales (had more long-term power than I thought, which is a great thing!), I was right about M&L which led to the detriment of AlphaDream — don't think that playing one single game gives you any ethical OR technical high ground in determining how to design a game.

@KingBowser86

lol! I like how angry you are.

Anywhoo, if you haven't played the game, your complaining is just that.

Come correct next time you speak to me.

@PoopScoop - Likely the same amount as the first two games plus about 5-10k given patterns of aftermarket?

Just cause they make Thousand Year Door 2, doesn't mean the person who never owned a Nintendo console til the 3DS isn't going to go full on board cause they heard the older ones were better.

@MS7000 If I may ask, what didn't you like about Color Splash? Honest question. I'm currently playing through it and really loving it through and through, in fact for the first time in a while I feel compelled to 100% percent it because of the museum, banners and other things. So I'm genuinely interested in why people seem to generally dislike that game, and your comment sounded like a real person's honest opinion, not the typical "TYD good, everything else bad!".

@KingBowser86
What did you say about Mario&Luigi?

Basically Nintendo keeping the Switch relevant.

Animal Crossing and Paper Mario only new games that matter on Switch. Everything else, you need a 2nd system.

Not surprised about Paper Mario. Trashed by A vocal minority that did not even play it (same as TLOU2)... glad most gamers tune them out.

I'm confident if the switch had just ported color splash it would have had similar numbers.

The game deserves it, it was fantastic.

@KingBowser86 Wow. You spent 15 minutes typing that and trying to prove your point, but you ultimately failed in the end. You don't want to buy the game because you don't feel its right for you. I understand that. But saying it's a bad game before even playing it is pretty douche.

And what in the living name of King Bowser are you talking about how "you were right" about all those games? and how I know nothing about games?

I have been around since the 64 era and have played well over thousands of games. That doesn't qualify to make me a game designer like you've pointed out, but I know how not only games work but also how fans do too. I've seen it plenty of times. I may have a lot more experience than you think.

So yeah. I've said my point, and arguing with you is like trying to reason with a potato. so, enjoy hating games my friend.

FOR REAL! Like, really?
(if you got the reference, you're a real one)

@Archius9 I guess you guys try to find the most imbecile excuses every time a game you don't like sell well. Amazing.

I dont get how this game "doesn't have soul" and "isn't creative". This sounds pretty ignorant and conpletely off base from what I just played :/.
Please just say you're not into the new style of games and just rather it go back to the old style. Its simpler to say, fair, and makes more sense.

Listed sales numbers would help put the scope into perspective.

@Apportal No, I made a point - you either don't want to hear it or are too blinded by your position to follow in-depth analysis. In case it's the latter, I'll condense it for you:
The Origami King does not have a satisfying combat system (this has been stated by numerous outlets and consumer reviews multiple times) and limitations have been made to its characterization and non-comedic writing such that it's terrible and forgettable even by spinoff standards. You don't need to play the whole game to see those things coming.

And for someone who's played so many games and is even attempting to argue this point where you should know this information already just by gleaming through the Comments sections, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. As for the "I was right" stuff, that's a history of comments and calls I've correctly surmised over the years. Obviously, I don't expect you or anyone to have followed me that closely, but my track record for having game design concerns (that I later find are more-than-echoed by reviewers, critics, and consumers) is my "proof in the pudding."

Now, you seem to be at as much of an impasse as the other guy (or are certainly trying to treat me the same way despite attempting to communicate), so I'll go ahead and oblige you in either scenario.

@Nemesis666 mate. I have the game and I really like it. More of a comment of an install base with a lot of people who will be new to series and the fact I’m sour that we don’t know what’s coming.
Chill dude.

@nab1 Colour Splash specifically, I do not like the colour hammer and restoring colour to parts of the level. Sounds like a fun idea on paper (pun definitely intended), but they are times where it feels the hammer should of covered a spot but doesn't which requires you to waste ink to complete. This problem is multiplied when you realise that they are many spots like this in each level. Ink is easy enough to come by however (but that comes into its own criticism later). They also go towards completion which means if you are going for 100%, no skipping. (Edit: Got 99% of spots covered? Have fun finding the spot you missed.)

Battles are long and boring for very little pay off. Using cards which you can paint to increase attack power are intended to make you think about how you battle, but ink as I said earlier is easy enough to obtain, so more often than not, I find myself always going full power on attacks. The process of picking and painting a card is slow, as navigating through stickers is more annoying than Sticker Star (at least there, I could see all the stickers in about 6 or so pages rather than swiping through all the cards). You have to find the card(s) you want, confirm the card(s), paint the card(s), confirm the amount of paint, swipe up on gamepad, and finally, you attack. Not to mention, some enemies are complete So and Sos (shy guys) and can steal from you whilst you are finding the card to use. All of that for an attack which will kill the enemies practically straight away. When in other turn-based games, you just select attack and a target, Bob's your uncle, done. Rewards are ink/paint and coins and even attack cards. Ink is already easily available as well from the environment.

Coins don't seem to have a use except for buying more cards (same problem as SS). So coins as a reward are kinda eh, given that attack cards are also given, and they are easily found outside battle.

The dialogue tries its best, but I do not find it funny, despite what other people have said to me. The toads are so one dimensional and I do not particularly care for the paint can (Huey?).

The game also likes wasting time on spectacles rather than doing anything meaningful. "Oh look, you found this clearly out of place thing, lets make you watch a cutscene where we squeeze the paint out, every, single, time because it is so, much, fun!"

Boss battles (at least based on the Morton fight), seem to require a special card from one of the things, such as fire extinguisher. Don't have one? Guess I'll die then. So now I am incentivised to not use those special cards, because who knows where they will be needed.

These are just some of the problems I have, but I am typing this on a phone and it is a pain in the butt. If you want more, i can elaborate further later. Hope this helps explain my dislike. For context, I an about half-way to getting the second paint star. Maybe the problems aren't so bad later, but for now, I am not hopeful.

@AJDarkstar Read again. Key word: "Largely." TTYD was better about giving its "lesser" partner characters more importance. PM1 kinda did this in sidequests but that just doesn't have the same gravitas as playing a role (albeit in small ways) throughout the main plot. The TOK partners fit into 1 of 2 categories of Mario World character that ensures that they'll never be remembered for their role in TOK.

@MrBlacky That Partners in Time had some sticking points (this was back when people would generally agree on a game being below the usual quality, mind you, before Sonic '06 got the brand loyalists of all franchises galvanized), and that the series needed a good deal of TLC if they dropped the ball that hard. Bowser's Inside Story, I said "Largely good, just scale back the predictability and tutorials." Subsequent entries, I cited an absolute lack of intrigue and purpose behind playing the games (let alone hit-and-miss gameplay elements). Sure enough, here we are, no more M&L.

@Yosher Thanks for a good response. I understand that you would like to wait until the game's a bit cheaper before trying it. Just wanted to give you my take on the game. Obviously I haven't played the games that are supposed to be the best in the series, but I've played the one many consider the worst, Sticker Star, and The Origami King is so much better than that sorry excuse of a game, IMO. I hope you get to play TOK one day and hopefully enjoy it. Until then, I hope you have other good games to play.

@Quarth Oh yeah, of course, I have plenty of other games to enjoy still! I'm currently going through Final Fantasy VII for the first time (Switch non-remake version) in fact to get my RPG fix and have been enjoying that. And there's still plenty more waiting for me after I'm done with that. I still have more than enough to keep me busy until that moment comes where I can try TOK.

Relatively hard to believe considering how unpopular it is in Japan.

@Yosher dude, you are literally the most chill person ever, it makes me so happy to see people who don't particularly like the game not force their opinion and respect everyone else's. good on you my dude.

Lovely, charming, funny game with lots of variety and not a dull moment. Excellent Paper Mario sequel.

TTYD fundamentalists can go get f'ed. And I say that as a TTYD fan.

@Apportal Hahah, I dunno about that. I'll be honest I do sometimes get a tad too heated in my complaints about this game and that I probably do complain about it (and certain other games) a little too much, but I do try not to push my opinion on other people. Because at the end of the day, that is what it is, merely an opinion, and everyone has their own! Live and let live, y'know?

Thank you though, appreciate the kind words. <3

@Yosher Good to hear! I'm a JRPG fan myself and I also played through FFVII for the first time on Switch earlier this year. Awesome game! Right now I'm playing FFIX and Undertale, both on Switch, really good titles so far. Have you played Xenoblade Chronicles?

@Quarth Oh, FFIX is actually one of my top favourite games of all time, even before it hit the Switch! I love it a lot. As for Xenoblade; I have the Wii version, which I played a little bit when I first got it when it came out, but I couldn't quite get into it. I don't really remember why but it was probably due to other games keeping my attention more. I should see if the Switch version holds my attention more.

@Yosher So far, I'm loving it too. Might even turn out to be my favorite FF (though VI is hard to beat)?
Xenoblade Chronicles is one of my absolute favorite games and I love the Definitive Edition on Switch, they did a good job on that one, making the battle system easier to grasp with some quality of life improvements. Essential game on the Switch, but I understand that it's not for everyone.

Other great JRPGs on Switch:

• Dragon Quest XI
• Dragon Quest I, II, III
• Trials of Mana
• Octopath Traveler
• Xenoblade Chronicles 2
• Final Fantasy VIII, X, X-2, XII
• Tokyo Mirage Sessions
• The Alliance Alive
• Trails if Cold Steel III
• Ni No Kuni
• Tales of Vesperia
• Ys VIII

Really looking forward to Shin Megami Tensei III and V.

@westman98 if anything it might not bring a "Thousand Year Door 2" but it might actually be enough to actually warrant a remaster of it down the line.

At the end of the day the game dates back to the gamecube era. For all the talk about the fans of the original, a "new" TTYD-style Paper Mario would be actually have a lot of uncertainty surrounding it because there'd be no ways to even know if there are even still enough fans of the original still around to make a sequel(which introduce the uncertainty of new plots to boot) have a solid chance.

However Origami King doing so well actually brings interest to the wider Paper Mario franchise NOW to a lot of people who never played any before.

So if it were me, i'd use this as an excuse not to give Thousand Years Door a sequel but rather to remaster the original TTYD or Paper Mario 64(perhaps refreshed to TTYD partners standards) while Origami King's success remains fresh in the current generation... and then from such a remaster's performance one might gauge if there can truly be enough appetite to warrant a shift back to TTYD-style in future offerings.

@MS7000 Thanks, all fair points. I definitely agree and even share some of those criticism, although not enough to keep me from enjoying the other parts. I guess in the end comes down to how much an issue affects each person. Like I do think the unskipabble thing squeezing animations takes far, far too long, and the touch controls a re clunky even with touch + stick option (EDIT: Although the touch + stick option makes battles so much better in terms of control), but not so much as to actually bother me. And that's probably the case with The Origami King as well I guess, which I hope to get to soon. Some are more bothered than others by certain aspects. The problem I see is that in this series there's a group that seems to assume that what they want is what everyone wants, and now the series as a whole seems to be judged by those assumptions, IMO unfairly so.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful response. I hope you end up finding enjoyment in the game, and if not, that's ok too. I do think it gets even better as you go, I'm starting the 5th star and it's been hilarious for me all the jokes and interactions I won't spoil

@johnvboy TTYD gatekeepers. Not a knock on TTYD, but it's hardcore fans SUCK.

@Maulbert,

Very true, there does seem to be lot of love that has gone into the current game.

@Yosher The Paper Mario series shines for it's creativity. You're just a man that can't have fun. At all.

This is a big FU to all the naysayers. I'm going to get that game eventually.

I have not bought TOK, I probably will not buy TOK, at least for awhile. But you know what? Its great that it sold so well. Congratulations, Nintendo.
As for the argument there is nothing to play, there is plenty to play. Maybe there aren't a lot of AAAs right now, but there is plenty out there.

@AJDarkstar The positives, which are old and tired as is, are that it basically functions. And the negatives, which is a puzzle combat system shoehorned into an RPG game and hopelessly generic characters including mind-grating Toads, far outweigh that, personally. I hate to put Toads and Rabbids in the same basket, but, that's where this blasted franchise has driven me.

@Archius9 AGREED!!!!

@mariomaster96 is that the problem? thought it was cause it wouldn't scratch the right itch

its the most fleshed out PM game since SS ill give them that. TOK is a fun time but id it hard to go back to, its not really replayable with how linear it all is. the battles are a hit and miss too, you either know the puzzle answer or you dont, and if you dont youre just gonna spend money to get hints cause you'll always have coins lying around and it isnt worth taking the extra time to solve

the series has nice visuals and writing to fall back on but if theyre gonna constantly make battle systems diff i worry about the quality consistency of the actual gameplay. cause even now its still mixed

@IronMan30 i think whats stoking the flames is nintendo's reasons for why the series changed in the first place, cause oof they have some bad answers lol. it just leaves fans confused why it had such a drastic change when no one had a problem with the gameplay before

even in the very beginning, theyre was so much noteriety behind miyamoto seeing the ttyd sequel on 3ds and telling the team to just dumb it all down. the game's contents have been pretty barebones since, essentially just having the main story and museum to keep you coming back

Its a fantastic game, dont listen to those dinosaurs with youth sentiment people especialy those idiots that did not played or just played a few hours and judge it by its battle system, just buy this game!!!!
It has everything you want in a adventure, its so magical, authentic nintendo but yet so fresh.

This game is full of tiny little wonders, and i never expected to be this good the since the first hour i played it with my son, who even felt emotional about one particular caracter passed away.
Great job to hit that emotion to a child.

A 9 out of 10. A little magic wonder.

@boxyguy

Its not linear, ass. You even have multiple endings, and places to go back to.
Did you even play the game?

Thousand year door was bloody lineair.
Imo and i have played ttyd, its not as fun as origami king, where you walked from A to B, story finished and thats that.

I always see more people complaining about the complainers than actual complainers here. Its so obnoxious to see.
People whine about not being able to like the game while at the same berating others for not liking said game.
Just respect each others opinions y'all.

@AJDarkstar Except for "interesting battle system", which, again, left out the whole "pointless" part, by nature, on account of the Coins, or the fact that it's a puzzle game for the majority part just as the previous games' combat ultimately amounted to being point-and-click adventure games by bringing the right MacGuffin that you found to the battle.

If you're going to be derisive towards people for having legitimate criticisms about a product, you're solidly in Shill territory. Your incessant insistence on playing the game does nothing to address concerns, so you may as well be a walking Ad. And I like AdBlocker.

@Apportal “I’m so sorry you’re too good for us.”

The sarcasm isn’t really taking any high ground either

@MrBlacky

Hey, you probably don't care about our previous conversation But Dude, I made it past the red ribbon parts and am now amending my ranking.

I complained about lack of creative characters. But these toads do actually ooze personality. It isn't quite the same, but these writers did amazingly well.

I complained about the ring fighting style: but once you get to the first boss, you get stronger and now don't have to use it on Goombas so that's HUGE for me.

I also see that boss fights are actually really fun!

All in all, I still wish we could get a game more similar to TTYD, but man was I wrong. You were right, I shouldn't have ranked it so early on. I still have a ways to go but this game has so much charm and character.

@Quarth All good titles I'm sure! I already have Dragon Quest XI (though I still need to continue it), all the Final Fantasy games (each one I wanna start after finishing the last), and Octopath Traveler (however, the story here greatly disappointed me, and I could not get much joy out of it even though the game looked very visually pleasing). I also have Xenoblade Chronicles 2, but haven't even started it yet. ..my backlog is too big and I tend to have trouble picking what I wanna play and often end up not playing at all....

Not sure on the other titles if I wanna get any of those, but some of them have certainly caught my eye and I might get them at some point.

By the way, speaking of Xenoblade.. I did get all three of those 'project rainfall' RPGs back then on the Wii (Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower), and even got the limited edition Club Nintendo coins that they put in the European catalogue back then. Certainly a lovely collector's item.

@Edu23XWiiU Be more rude please. I'm sure you'll attract lots of friends that way.

@PALversusNTSC multiple endings? you mean the regular ending and the 2nd one you get if you 100% the game? i mean sure if you wanna call those multiple.

i just mean theres not many ways to play it different, once you beat the game theres not much incentive to do it again. ttyd have way more interesting collectables that actually affect gameplay better (items, star pieces, recipes, badges, etc.). especially badges, those can make multiple playthoughs way more interesting. the only way i can imagine replaying TOK again is if i wanna turn off the accessories for extra challenge, and thats a pretty barren way to play

TOK is a fine enough game. i just dont think the series is changing for the better, the earlier games still offer much more content and have more engaging elements

@Dr_Corndog origami king is pretty good you should give it a shot ! Also as for sticker star it's alright the story is or more like the lack of a story is garbage but the gameplay is servicable.

I''m happy to see Paper Mario and Ring Fit as well...that game is superb!

@KingBowser86 conveniently you seem to have forgotten that nintendo bought the trade mark for th Mario and Luigi series.

"It was a drop of water in a drought."
"Modern users have no standards, not like us in the old guard."
Every single time a game sells well nowadays, without fail, we have to sing this tune.

@Archius9 Somebody's cynical

Origami King, unless it takes a nose dive, is my favorite Paper Mario game and favorite release from the Mario IP on Switch. I'm just getting started on the game's fourth streamer and this game has not lost any momentum. It's on track to being a game I would want to 100% complete, and it seems very approachable to do so. I'm taking my experience through the game slowly, savoring it and have been enjoying the game out of game. Right now, as I comment, I'm listening to the themes extended of the Legion of Stationery members I've already fought.

The game's low point I would say are the regular battles. The addition of a puzzle element via the ring concept before going into the turn-based action for me makes it a little more engaging than I remember TTYD being up until the player has a decent, leveled up partner party to work with. I do not think the battle system overall is a low point however. The boss encounters are very well done, Vullementals and Legion of Stationery, and the Paper Macho battles have been enjoyable, more in line with what I would have expected in an action adventure game.

I'm glad that the game has had the best launch for the series here. The game, in spite of asinine restrictions, has maintained creativity and has been great to experience. I do not want Paper Mario to shift away from the action adventure genre if Origami King is the standard going forward.

@Yosher Dude you didn't understood the message they wanted to give us until now? Seriously?
The thing is that the Characters are unique by who they are, not by what they look like
That's insanely deep, my friend
Even in times like this (BLM)

@Yosher and man
Zelda was an RPG, and turned into an OpenWorldExplorer in BoTW
Paper Mario did the same thing
The weapon System, the tons of collectibles, the self-feeling of progression
It's all borrowed from BoTW and I loved it

@Yosher the story of the game makes you feel a connection with the bosses
With the story, It Almost looked like the bosses were from the Mario Universe indeed

@JuiceMan_V exactly
He didn't even played the game ter
Sometimes it Isn't worth to give It a try (Color Splash and Sticker Star) but the trailers showed a bunch of things why the game is so good

@Yosher ooohhhh hohoho
You watch Arlo
So your case is impossible
I'm sorry

@Yosher so you are blind because the trailers make it clear that the Gameplay is extremely different from the last two games

@MS7000 It's never late/enough to give a New entry in a series a try
It's never late
TOK is Very different from the last two games

@KingBowser86 Man
Bobby (SPOILERS) *****' DIES IN THIS GAME
And the backstory of all Characters looks like a Final Fantasy one
Olly and Olivia are like Titans

@SPL64 but It already did...

@Yosher they won't feel bland (Sad flashbacks) THEY WON'T 😭😭😭😭

@Yosher with the Game's plot and background even craft objects can be interesting and Fun
Also, their Gimmicks to block the player's path are insanely well made and it's an awesome challenge

@KingBowser86 you're absolutely wrong
Don't judge a book by their first chapter
Things can get preety....intense

@MrBlacky exactly my friend

@Yosher that's sad dude
That's Very Sad
You simply don't want to change
And don't know How to change
You're Lost....I feel bad for you now🥺🥺🥺😢😢😢

@Yosher the thing is that the immersion is other now
The story is based on Paper
And you need to keep in Mind that you is in a world of paper
Not a simple "Mario Story" but rather a delightful "Paper Mario"

@electrolite77 KKKKKKK Switch have more than 7thousand games
And filtering It
2k800 awesome delightful games
3D and 2D

@KingBowser86 BUT MOST OF THE REVIEWERS DIDN'T PLAYED THE GAME OR JUST PLAYED THE FIRST STREAM

@KingBowser86 well, so you're (bad words here😗) dumb

@KingBowser86 Man
You are preety lucky to not have spoilers from Bobby's death or Olly's internal crisis

@Yosher now you're being an insanely good vibes person
Please marry me

@KartLover_BadPC
I refer to all time sales.

@iLikeUrAttitude oohhh
They came☺️☺️☺️
The defenders of the haters
I love them with the same old words
"I see more person complaining about the complainers than The actual complainers" when It's obvious that they see the complainers being haters that don't played the game but they also Hates the game so they defend those (insert bad word here😗)kkkkkkkkkkkk

@boxyguy badges and weapons+"plus" acessories are Just like badges
I'm not kidding they are exactly the same

@boxyguy and TOK also have Items and Heart Pieces

@boxyguy and the exploration in the game is rewarded in the Museum
Play the game and you'll know what I mean

@I-U and that ends my Reading
With Hope🤩

@SPL64 Just wait, Just wait

@KartLover_BadPC accessories are very barebones attempts at badges, theres really no creative uses for them to mix up gameplay, and theres only 18 of them. and half of them are just stronger versions of a previous accessory, so past accessories can become obsolete.

ive played the game and its just a lot less of an experience from past entries. yeah we have items but theyre so much more boring than before and less impactful, even the weapons this time are extremely limited. i get that they built the game with this simplistic design but i personally wouldnt want this for the series going forward.

i enjoy the collectable and 100% aspect of it but a lot of them dont really affect gameplay that much (compared to past stuff like star pieces, badges, tattle log, ect). so even if i think TOK is good, it still feels like much less than what theyve done before

@Classic603
Glad you starting to like it. 😄
That being said, I hope you weren't under the impression I was trying to force my view on you on liking the game?

@traceman But no more M&L by AlphaDream, yes?
What kind of passive-aggressive gotcha were you even trying to attempt, there?

@mikegamer nope. I’m a fan of the game.
Just a comment of the Switches huge new install base making a lot of Nintendo IPs new to people and a bit of my sourness that up until they point we had basically nothing confirmed

@boxyguy Personally I think TOK's gameplay is a lot more polished. PM64/TTYD had lots of badges but they were obviously never balanced despite most of the attacks appearing in both games.

There's very little creative use for most the badges when it's possible to completely overpower the enemy and stomp them with one or two attacks. The way the power system works the double hits of jumps ends up becoming superior to the hammer when you start equipping Power Plusses. It's more complex but it has little depth, because most of its options aren't worth using.

But in Origami King the battle system it's very deliberate, most options have a specific use and no one attack option invalidates the rest. It's simple but the puzzle-aspect, especially in boss fights, makes you think in ways that even the hardest bosses in previous games didn't.

@Yosher I recognize the backlog issue. 😅 The problem with loving RPGs and wanting to play as many of them as possible, is that they take so looong time to complete! My playthrough of XC2 took me nearly 100 hours and so did Dragon Quest XI (and in that one the story keeps on going even after the end credits!). I'm kinda glad that Undertale is only about 10 hours.

Cool that you go that far back with XC! My love for the series started with the 3DS version. I still hope that they port over XCX to Switch, as I haven't played that one yet.

@Dr_Lugae oh definitely not balanced lol, just wanted to point out TOK's accessories leave a lot to be desired. TOKs is definitely more polished but with the gameplay deliberately simplified im not sure how much credit id wanna give it

i just enjoyed the options and variety it gave us, it feels weird to have more options taken away than we're given. TOK is a very polished game that does well what its made for, but i think they had to sacrifice cutting a lot of corners cause of it

yeah TOK battles cut right to the chase, i almost dont know what they could add to the battles without overly complicated it. i get its simplified cause battles are puzzle-based, but it still left a lot to be desired for me. and i agree the bosses were the hardest parts of the game and i enjoyed the actual stake of losing

@KingBowser86 the point was the series isn't necessarily dead. It seems like die hard fans of PM (like you of course) can't seem to stand the M&L franchise and honestly it seems kind of stupid. That being said I don't think I need even bother trying to explain why I think TOK is good and deserves the sales numbers. Though you'd just have another retort about how the series is now bad I'll give you sticker star I think that game can easily be touted as the worst no story, Kersti being unlikable and not at all helpful, and the boss battles I don't think I need to elaborate on those. Of course knowing people like you and especially Arlo your minds are dead set on what you want and that's fine if anything all you're doing is tempting me to go back and play TTYD objectively and comb every aspect the game to see what it was that people loved.

@KartLover_BadPC Was it... really necessary to @ me ten times in ten different messages??? There is an edit button for a reason!

@Quarth I have that game for Wii U as well but haven't played it yet (...surprise surprise?), but a friend of mine played it and while he enjoyed it to an extent.. he eventually quit the game because, I believe, the game often leaves you in the dark on what to do, or where to find things in that huge world within the game. I believe that was his reasoning for quitting Xenoblade Chronicles X, anyway.

@Yosher As I understand, it's not as narrative driven as the other games in the series and focuses more on exploring, like Breath of the Wild. While I enjoy a clear story, I also love exploring huge worlds if they are inviting enough, like, again, in Breath of the Wild, which IMO is fantastic! But it would be annoying if there aren't many hints at what to do, especially in that type of game.

@boxyguy Man
Remember the badge attacks? So
They turned into TLoZ BoTW weapons
Remember the status badges? So, they are no different, seriously, there were badges with different status boosters, so the ones with less boosters were useless/obsolete
Also, the HP pieces are in the overworld Just to be found. They change the the Gameplay
The more toads you find, more cheer you have. They change the Gameplay too

And I played the first two games and I don't see why their items have more "impact" than The Origami King ones
The POW Block is the same, the Fire Flower is better, and the Vollumental transformation are the exact same as the Star Pieces ngl
You had a challenge to complete the game Just using one badge attack right? So, try to complete the game using just one type of weapon
The experience is the same, I tried to complete the game Just using items and boots in the shiny variation and My Boy it's hard
And the insane amount of money is part of the strategy
You use them to buy Weapons? Acessories? Items? Time? Cheer?
You need to have this strategy If you make the same type of challenge as I made
The sense of progression is you who make by using more and more of your brain
The turn puzzles are part of This sense of progression

@KingBowser86 kekekekekeke (I'm 16)
You don't need to answer, Just read

@Dr_Lugae I absolutely agree with you

@boxyguy oh I understand now
So
Make challenges to yourself
Make the game complicated
I gave an example already

@Yosher yes it was necessary

@MrBlacky

Haha no, we had a discussion with 2 different views. And I'm still stubbornly wanting a TTYD2 lol. But this game has cruised past Super for me.

@Edu23XWiiU Are you okay? Something you need to talk about?

As a Nintendo Switch owner - the effort, presentation and art direction really makes this game shine. I came with an open mind and really loved the amount of care put into this title. The pacing was important to me, so it doesn’t feel too tedious. Now with these performance numbers, and how development for other games might be impacted due to the pandemic - it just makes sense for Nintendo to bring out more Wii U titles and port them to Switch. Doing these would probably be more faster and fill in the gaps until actual new releases come. This can easily brings more revenue to the company, and please the Switch owners who missed out on games such as Yoshi’s Wooly World and Color Splash where I was very intrigued by the artistic elements and Koopalings as bosses.

Given that I'm still working my way through DQ11S, I'm going to wait for this to come on sale. It sounds like from the interviews that Nintendo put a bunch of weird restrictions on the game that prevented it from being as good as it could be. On the other hand, I'm seriously considering using an emulator to play Thousand Year Door since everybody keeps talking about how great it is.