The English Translation of Super Mario RPG Cut Many Japanese Pop References

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

There, discuss.

If they remade it (the sprites were looking a bit battered when I played it on the Wii) for the switch I would definately give it a go again.
Never got round to finishing it to be honest.

game: removes cultural references
gamers: localization ☺

game: removes underage salacious content
gamers: MUH CENSORSHIP 😡😢

@Abeedo NO! NO! NO! NO!

@AlexSora89 it’s Toadstool’s Peach Crown

@Roam85
Oh, so young and naive.

@AlexSora89 I’d wager a guess I’m roughly four years older than you give or take a bunch of months.

But it’s not naievete, of course she’d keep the means to assume her very identity hidden.

@Charlie_Girl This is true. And the way you put it made it funnier.
But I still do think that games shouldn't be censored, even if they have, what you call salacious content. But I understand why certain games get censored, and I generally have no problem with it, long as it doesn't affect gameplay.

@Charlie_Girl

Game: (Has female character with thin, yet attainable waist)
SJWs: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
Developers: "We would like to #apologize for the #problematic #depiction of #women in our #latest #game. The offending artist has been #fired, and we will #ensure this will #never #happen #again. #whoops #sorry #healthyateverysize #💦💦💦

SJWs: "......Apology not accepted."
Joe Developer
123 Home Ave.
Kentucky
(555)555-5555

Only ever found out about this game on the Wii.

It seems odd that the "Sailor Moon" reference was cut, since that actually had made it to the West by the time the game was released.

Always fun to learn more about this game. I don't trust Nintendo to remake and add Luigi and translate these references. Some punchout stuff would be fun as Mario was the referee in the original.

Obligitory Jojo reference.

The funny thing about Japanese language is that there's a surprisingly small number of ways to say certain things, probably because it's so context dependant that giving the speakers "too much freedom" would severly hinder everyday communication. I think this is why the Japanese have a much easier time spotting references to certain works, even if it's just a relatively simple phrase uttered only a single time.

@BulbasaurusRex It was removed for the west cause the Sailor Moon copyright license was own by different companies here in the states. In Japan it was own by Funimation but in NA it got pass around which was first own by Fox then later by Toonami. Funimation deals with toys, cartoons, videogames, and other various products whereas Fox and Toonami are only interest in the show. Other properties of the show were also own by either Hasbro or Bandai which only deals with toys and nothing else so Nintendo of America couldn't keep the Sailor Moon reference intact for the western release as doing so may put them in hot water.

To miss a reference is one thing (and that's acceptable in my eyes as long as the line still conveys the same meaning as the original), but rewriting a line to something else entirely and bastardizing the experience for Western players like Woolsey did here is not OK.

@Charlie_Girl Your comment is written in bad faith.

In other words: buzz off, troll.

@Charlie_Girl Well scantily clad women are universally known unlike obscure Japanese references

@edhe Sincerely asking - what real-life gaming controversy do you feel matches up to what you're describing?

@Roam85
The object is called XXX in Japan. See if this hint makes things less shaky.

Probably for the best they rewrote a bunch of lines that almost no one would get.

@Charlie_Girl

Lmao! This is so true! 😁

This was a neat article

@turntSNACO
There's no specific example - it's a amalgamation of behaviour I have witnessed over the past 5 years or so.

But I disagree with the premise of the comment I responded to - If I object to censorship, it isn't because I want to 'perv over underage characters'. I responded to an strawman argument with my own.

Now, in the case of Super Mario RPG, this would not be censorship, technically, more localization, as correctly pointed out. It gets a bit muddy when people would argue that our current western values should dictate how characters should appear in games, and call that "localization", but when you start imposing these values on Japan as well (see Sony's current efforts to sanitise all Ecchi from their platform), that argument doesn't hold up.

Going back to Super Mario RPG, of course I understand these references were altered - they were taken from shows that were largely unknown to most Western players, but even if they had watched the dubbed anime, the references might not have been as apparent.

Read the full article. Wow, what a great read. Who'd a thunk the devs we such huge fans on Evangelion!

@edhe Thanks for responding. Leaving out what Japan does with stuff that stays in Japan, which I won't comment on, I guess I don't understand why the line between censorship and localization is hugely important. Like, if during localization a developer removes a half-naked image of a preteen character that was only ever in there as fanservice anyway, I'm not sure that we've lost anything of importance. If you disagree in an example like, I'd be interested to know why.

I feel like Sony, like Steam before it, don't always get the distinction between underage and over. Most social justice-friendly gaming sites tend to be pretty sex positive as long as it's adults being depicted.

That "sacrilege!" was directed at me. Couldn't appreciate this game in my youth. I want to revisit it. I have the rom of course, but seeing as it's been released on Virtual Console and Classic SNES, I'm playing the waiting game for a Switch release. There ain't nothing better than taking an RPG on the go. Wouldn't mind seeing the Paper Mario series re-releasing on Switch either.

@Charlie_Girl As I always say, if it isn't real, then it is okay because it won't affect my reality life of thinking what is right or wrong.

Plus basically censorship is an insult to the artists, as their have been stories of artists defending their art (not just "underage" stuff only by the way). Now just imaging everything just became censored XD. (because that would......well I let you image what would happen if that became a thing heheh).

@retro_player_22 You don't need a trademark or license just to make a reference. I read books and play games all the time that make pop culture references to various properties. In fact, there's no way this game in particular managed to license all the manga and anime it references in the original Japanese version.

First off, I love Legends of Translation. I read literally the entire FF4 comparison (at least up to where he'd left it at that point in time, which was about 60 or 70% of the way through). I haven't checked it in awhile because I sort of thought he was on a hiatus.

It's nice to see that he's still at it.

I also want to say that I appreciate Ted Woolsey's work in the translation/localization of those SNES rpgs. Given the fact that on most of the games, he alone did all of the work - sometimes with only a month to do it - and the fact that the space was so limiting that he was forced to cut out tons of text (the Japanese language can say far more while taking up less cart space than could the more cumbersome English letter system), I thought he mostly did a pretty damn good job. He was also forced to adhere to NOW's ridiculously puritanical censorship guidelines.

His work wasn't perfect or anything, but he almost single handedly made it possible for English speaking gamers to play these amazing games that may not have otherwise come to the US at all.

Personally, I'd say that Chrono Trigger and FF6 were his greatest achievements. Yes, he took a great many liberties, but the localizations worked. I think Ted's career defining moment came out of the way in which he chose to script Kefka. In the Japanese version, Kefka was far more flat in his dialogue (bordering on being outright serious). As such, he didn't have nearly the same degree of utter madness that Woolsey imbued him with. The Japanese were so impressed with his insanely hilarious-yet-disturbing characterization that it directly influenced how Kefka would be portrayed in all future games that featured him (even in Japan).

The guy takes a lot of flack for his translations, but I don't think he was so bad. I felt that his efforts were far more lively, funny, and charming than the localizations seen in FF7 and 8. (FF7' s translation being especially sterile by comparison).

That's all.

@edhe

It would probably be hilarious to see reactions from SJWs offended by Zero Suit Samus' blue and orange alternate costumes hear that the artist that brought those designs to reality was fired by Sakurai himself...

Only to later find out said artist was actually a woman.

#FeministsAgainstThePatriachy
#FeministsAgainstWomenDepictingUnrealisticWomen
#HashtagsThatDontMatterBecauseItsAJoke
#ItsTheBestICanDoAndIApologizeIfTheyAreBad

@edhe like a white man explaining how racism isn't a thing.

I would like Mallow in Smash a lot more than Geno.

@Preposterous It's more due to the number of different ways there are to phrase the exact same line that makes quotes so much easier to identify the original character. Pronoun choice and mode of speech mean there's more identifiers for the original character within the line itself.

Contrast "I'll be back," an iconic line from The Terminator (I've heard this quoted hundreds of times in my lifetime, but without the signature Arnie voice you wouldn't think it was an allusion), to Gato's "Solomon! I have returned!" [Solomon yo! Watashi wa kaete kita!] line from Gundam 0083 (referenced in the game).

When the mass-produced Mack references this line, I can basically hear Gato coming through the text because of the specific way it's been phrased. He doesnt need to use a Gato voice because part of that character's voice is already in the way he phrases things.

Hope that explanation makes sense!

@edhe I have to say, your chosen avatar perfectly suits the generically scummy, yet smug tone of your posts. I don't know if that was intentional on your part, though.

You just seem to be a little frustrated over a post which does not directly reference you - until you start making the same points that the OP was poking fun at.

For what it's worth, I've noticed this behavior on several gaming blogs myself. Everybody's fine if a bunch of allusions get cut, but if a skinship minigame (or something like the Bravely Default bikini) has to go, there's a ton of vitriol and anti-censorship rhetoric. I've seen many calls for boycotts and nearly as many news posts that have had to shut off comments because of it.

Anyways, I'm not making a value judgement here. I can see where the anger comes from even if I don't condone the way it gets expressed.

Food for thought: Words are part of the artistry of a game. Dumb Otaku references may be just that, but they show the game's writers putting a little bit of themselves into the game they're making, especially on a system where they're quite limited on text space. How does localization change or obfuscate the self-expression of the game's creators?

(just for comparison's sake, in manga translation references and the like are preserved as much as possible, while in anime dubbing and game translation the focus is more on presenting something clearly understandable to native speakers. Each medium's limitations directly affect the way in which they are localized)

@andywitmyer A fine, relevant, and thoughtful post! Bravo! That conversation which we must have every day on the internet appears to be in full flow, so it’s nice to read something outside of it which is salient and on-topic.

Nice information.

@edhe So true, so true