Topic: What are the Essential characteristics of a Zelda game?

@Magitek_Knight I think the 3DS version, which is what I played, fixes at least some of the clunkiness, but I haven't played the original so I can't compare it properly. You're right though that early 3D games haven't aged well as a whole and that does apply to all versions of OoT to varying extents.

@damien33ad Yeah and I'm sure in 20 years there'll be people playing BotW for the first time and wondering what all the fuss is about because subsequent games will have improved on its ideas. Definitely agree about 2D Zelda by the way. I'm currently playing Oracle of Ages for the first time and it's brilliant.

The main thing the 3ds version changed was making the boots regular items instead of equipment. So you could switch boots on the fly, instead of having to access the pause menu to turn them on and off every time.

It changed that, and added some extra visual cues on the water temple to improve navigation... But I think that's about it.

Majora's Mask did get quite a few changes though.

3DS added in Sheikah Stones (hint videos), a boss rush mode, made the characters not look so ugly, and Master Quest.

@Dogorilla I've played both, 64 to near completion and the 3DS version for a few hours. I don't think there were that many changes made to it that I could see aside from some sharper graphics. I'm no expert though, that was just my impression.

@Euler oh right I completely forgot the sheikah stones were a thing.

Didn't really want to list things that didn't affect the mechanics, like new models and the boss rush. Mirroring the map for the master quest was new though, so that counts!

@damien33ad Personally I'm a big fan of quirky control schemes so I like the DS games but I get why some people might not. It would be nice if they released a version with different control options but I'm not sure how well it would work because a lot of the items and puzzles are built around the touchscreen.

@damien33ad I've been a Final Fantasy fan for a couple decades now, I'm familiar with "some people complain about it now"...although sometimes it goes the other way and people want to complain before it's even out. 😆

@damien33ad could you please avoid posting multiple times in a row? I've seen you do it a lot in this thread.

@damien33ad you can click on the "Reply" button of as many posts as you like, it only @'s the user for you. You can also write the @usernames yourself, if you know them by memory.

If you feel like adding further thoughts to your post, just edit them or recreate them (posting it again and deleting the original).

Thanks!

What makes a good Zelda game? It mainly comes down to a careful system of progress. Zelda games were notorious for presenting you with problems or even story plots which didn't make sense at first, but then over time you either gained the tools or knowledge to tackle them.

BotW for me good this completely wrong. I don't mind an open-world game, but when I buy a Zelda title I expect to be taken on a journey which has been carefully designed by the masters at Nintendo. Receiving a bunch of keys and then being thrown into a world of thouasnds of doors is not what Zelda games are about. It just felt lazy to me. BotW was an amazing exploration experience, but a pretty poor Zelda one.

Having recently replayed Twilight Princess and Majoras Mask, I was reminded of why I fell in love with the series. These games encouraged exploration whereas BotW feels like it forces it upon you. TP had a much smaller world but the devs really put the effort into making it feel like a real place which the player connects with. For example - there are side quests where you need to repair a broken bridge or help a character set up a shop. Completing these significantly changes the world you're in. It opens up new areas of the map and makes getting around the world a lot easier.

In BotW, the world was so big that once you explored an area once, you never came back to it. There was no reason to. You came, you explored, you conquered, and then it's goodbye forever.

@damien33ad That's the thing, I don't really have a favorite series (I mean, there are a few I'd say are up there like Batman Arkham, Command & Conquer, and Metal Slug but I play enough different games that I lack a single favorite). If I wanted FF I'd play FF.

I respect that most truly great games have a unique DNA that you can't really get with another title. I enjoy Street Fighter, Injustice, and Tekken and despite their similar basic concepts as one on one fighters, they each stand out from each other through the way the game runs.

The stuff I did enjoy about playing the Zelda games I played is starting to come back to me. I just wish I had my old carts and systems now.

@damien33ad In my opinion, BotW had a more epic scope than most of the other entries. Because I actually did the memory quest line, the second real quest line given in the game, I got to see some cutscenes that added even more. The entire theme is to evoke a sense of overcoming hopelessness after everyone pinned their hopes on you, and subsequently forgot about you. If gliding to Hyrule Castle and attempting to scale it doesn't drive this home, I don't know what could. Everyone talks about how void and barren BotW, without considering the reason for this is the same reason Link died...Calamity killed people. There's still folks around that have stories, though.
Barring three others (Majora, Windwaker, Skyward), the rest of the installments feel like they're good games, with generic stories. They're about as epic as MegaMan's variety of gameloop. Zelda's dungeons are nothing more than a trope for "get this, use that there", so it was honestly nice to be able to have every item and skill I needed within the first 20 minutes of the game. Then it was up to my own skill and playstyle to determine where I wanted to go, not where I was allowed to go.

@damien33ad this is what Miyamoto would tell you.
I fell in love with it in the nineties for its Japanese take on the fantasy/adventure genre.
Later I backtracked the older titles and I came to understand what overtime became the core gameplay: basic plot like mario, but with occasional epic spins on it. Dungeons: sometimes clever, sometimes damn difficult, lately they have been largely predictable.
I would say the best I've played are link to the past, wind waker (my favourite for various reasons), and prior to BOTW I would say Dark Souls.
At its core Dark Souls is one of the best Zelda titles I've ever played.
Of course I'm being provocative, and this would require a thread of its own, but I stand by it.

Ended up with a little extra money after selling an amp and picked up a Switch and Link's Awakening. Will be able to address the thread topic better after actually finishing a few entries and it looks like the Switch Online has three more Zeldas I've played but not finished. Will probably tackle LttP next and Loz and AoL after (Which is pretty much the order I acquired the carts in, back when I was collecting, funny enough).

Will put off BotW for a while, but will get around to it.

@damien33ad I've played most of the Game Boy original (Link's Awakening DX was in fact my first Game Boy Color title) and I'm finding it to be a really nice update.

...so ports, huh? Link: The Faces of Evil, maybe? 😂

@Magitek_Knight I don't know if I would bother with the original LoZ or Zelda II, neither have aged particularly well imo. Zelda II isn't really much of a Zelda game either. You can give them a go if you'd like, but don't be surprised if you're put off by them.

@Cynas I've played both before when I had an NES. I know I got about halfway through the original and Zelda 2 I didn't finish only because my save battery died (and I was too afraid of screwing something up to replace it). I want to finish them for my own sake of not having done so earlier.

I'm a sucker for tough as nails 8 and 16 bit sidescrollers and action adventure though. Big fan of NES Batman and Simon's Quest. I cut my teeth on Ecco the Dolphin and (the very badly aged) Earnest Evans.

Also, it's like with music- If I get into an artist/band I like checking out their old stuff, and the artists that influenced them. I like seeing the history unfold. I'm the same way with games.

@damien33ad Thanks! Will do.

@damien33ad Interestingly enough, Miyazaki (Dark souls, not Ghibli) has stated that Link To The Past was for him a rulebook about action RPGs when he was young (and I think that amongst the 2D zeldas is the one aged better).
When i say that dark souls was the best Zelda i played in a while i meant in terms of enjoying to explore its world as a fantasy action RPG. You could say DS entire map is the biggest most well crafted dungeon ever. The best metroidvaniesque map ever imo.
And despite being brutal in its exp and combat system (that's where its linearity lies), it's pretty open about where you could go first when you start the game.
Of course it's very Dark, and it took me 20 hours before i became invested in the lore.
But in terms of defining a generation a action RPGs you can totally say Dark Souls (or Demon souls for that matter) is the legend of Zelda of 2010s.
And this comes from someone who's favourite Zelda from series still is Wind Waker.