Forums

Topic: What are the Essential characteristics of a Zelda game?

Posts 81 to 100 of 197

Magitek_Knight

I mean I've only ever played the games from loose carts. (For that matter the only Nintendo games I have owned new are Metroid Prime and F-Zero GX, and possibly the Pokemon I had on my first 3DS). I didn't have the manuals so if it wasn't explicity explained in-game it's likely I missed it. And it's possible I missed stuff that was explained in-game.

I'm not sure what the trading sequence is for example.

Edited on by Magitek_Knight

Sorry if I got your thread locked.

Eel

You get a sword that is twice as long, and twice as strong than the Master Sword at the end.

The caveat is that you can't use your shield while that sword is out.

These are just things you figure out by exploring and trying out stuff... For example, I don't think I ever read the manuals either... And when we first played the game, we didn't really understand English, so tiny me and my big brother figured everything via trial and error.

But eventually things fell into place, and everything connected.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

Magitek_Knight

At some point I always lose patience with trial and error. It's why I've never finished any of the Souls games, it just gets dull trying to figure out how exactly the game designer wants me to do things.

Sorry if I got your thread locked.

damien33ad

@Eel that's funny I almost forgot about the goron sword. Stupid thing would break bit it was still cool

damien33ad

Eel

@damien33ad oh you're thinking about the goron knife, which is just a tease for the real thing. The goron sword never breaks.

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

damien33ad

@Magitek_Knight I think twilight princess is a great game but maybe not the best for first one to play all the way through I would recommend Windwaker if really are against Ocarina. Windwaker is really just a ton of fun to play.

@Eel oh ya! I do remember that was so long ago. I played when I was kid. Yes I can't remember all I had to do but ya I remember now. I really need to play that game again. Hopefully they remaster for Switch

@Magitek_Knight Links Awakening in switch is good entry of 2d so do t have to do handheld and I'd say what are you waiting for man? Go buy a switch!

Edited on by Eel

damien33ad

Eel

If he doesn't like trial and error, I'm not sure Link's Awakening would be a good match, the entire game is basically one big puzzle.

Even I end up lost every now and then in that one. That darn bird key...

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

StuTwo

Cynas wrote:

@StuTwo The tutorial in Twilight Princess is often the only thing that people complain about that drags on for too long, what else drags on besides that? Skyward Sword definitely does have a bit of padding, but personally I enjoyed it all so I didn't mind much. Also, what fanservice moments are you talking about? I've replayed them fairly recently and don't remember anything like that in either game. I don't think I've heard anyone else complain about that either. If anything BotW has the most callbacks to previous entries.

There are far too many rote dungeons. They are mostly OK but also all so self-contained and "by the numbers" (with the exception of that more novel one in the snow mansion) that they could have been slotted into any other 3d Zelda game (Nintendo has actually admitted that a couple of the Twilight Princess dungeons were recycled designs originally intended for the back half of Wind Waker. Which is probably why Twilight Princess feels too dungeon heavy and Wind Waker seems short one or two).

It feels worse in Twilight Princess as well because so many of the dungeon items are basically not used at all outside of the dungeon you find them in (looking at you "ball and chain" and "giant ride-able sawblade"), because the art style makes them all look exactly the same and because the world is larger so that you can hunt for bugs.

The whole game is patterned after Ocarina's world. And to look like a higher spec version of Ocarina. And to have Epona in it - like Ocarina - even though you can run as a wolf. Even the skeleton that teaches you moves is supposed to be Link from Ocarina. Other Zelda games have lots and lots of nods to other games but few actually feel as straight up "Ocarina of Time fan game sequel wish list" as Twilight Princess.

I like Skyward Sword a lot more (both thematically, from an artistic design perspective and as a game) but its far too linear and I never enjoyed "dousing". Infact I really disliked it. Fan service wise it deliberately wants to tie the "Zelda timeline" together by acting as a kind of origin story. Skyward Sword is an interesting story regardless but it came across to me as a bit "fanservice-y".

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Magitek_Knight

@damien33ad I mean I'm unemployed and have moving expenses to deal with right now plus I don't want to buy a Switch while supply is short and everyone is price gouging, especially since it's a secondary console and I need to buy a $60 pro controller along with it because Nintendo apparently hates people with larger than average hands. I've also already played Link's Awakening, $50 to play a game I already didn't bother finishing again with mobile game looking graphics is not ideally how I spend 4 hours worth of wages.

I briefly had a Switch Lite, returned it the same day due to ergonomics problems.

Edited on by Magitek_Knight

Sorry if I got your thread locked.

damien33ad

@StuTwo the problem here the that's worth noting that while TP may have some prblems a poorer entry Ina Zelda series still is a great game compared to other games. Some of the dungeons were dull but I liked a lot of them. The story was great too especially the dark atmosphere. I've never played thru Skyward Sword I want to hoping to get a port

damien33ad

damien33ad

@Magitek_Knight hope u find work buddy. Pray for ya.. you could buy a Wii. You can play Windwaker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword on the Wii and should be able to find one cheap

damien33ad

Magitek_Knight

@damien33ad Eh, I'm out of work partially by choice. I left in March to limit my exposure to Covid and prevent getting my dad sick. I'm not hurting for money, I had saved ahead of time. I just don't want to shell out a lot of money on a new console before I get my new place furnished. Needs before wants right now.

And I do have a Wii (and a GC controller/memory card)...I'm just hearing mixed things about the Zelda games available for it and WW and TP can be quite expensive, and Skyward Sword requires an extra control attachment thing. :/

Edited on by Magitek_Knight

Sorry if I got your thread locked.

damien33ad

Go online at GameStop and see how much Windwaker is for GameCube. I bought it for $30.

damien33ad

Magitek_Knight

@damien33ad Pricecharting has it trending about $50-60 for a complete copy (which is how I'd prefer to have it). Gamestop is kind of luck of the draw on what you get in terms of both completeness and condition.

Sorry if I got your thread locked.

damien33ad

@Magitek_Knight ya mine works fine.
They may end up porting to Switch too.
I'd say Windwaker really does so much of Zelda the best. The dungeons are fun, the characters are memorable and there is a great villian to hate throughout. The music is also top notch

Edited on by damien33ad

damien33ad

damien33ad

@Eel lol ya. Really there aren't many bad choices when it comes to Zelda though. There are some that aren't as good as others but still, the worst Zelda game compared to the better games from third parties, those "worst" Zelda games kill it.

damien33ad

StuTwo

@Magitek_Knight I’m going to push the boat out and say that, from what you’ve posted here, you probably wouldn’t enjoy any 3D Zelda game (certainly not the GC version of Wind Waker - the long, long sailing sequences are like Hyrule field on steroids).

Honestly I think you can find other games to play that you’d enjoy more.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

MetalKingShield

I'd say:

  • A good balance of exploration and linear gameplay. The amount if exploration should always be considered, limited section-by-section and a proper part of the design, rather than being open world.
  • A balance of mandatory gameplay and optional sidequests. Again, they should be well designed such as in Majora's Mask, rather than a checklist.
  • Plot progression. Completing each dungeon should move the story along.
  • Item gating. Fire an arrow into the target and you can cross the bridge. This allows the designers to control your experience throughout the game, rather than leaving you to possibly experience long and fruitless gameplay sessions.
  • Action-based combat, but not so intense that it's trying to be an action game.
  • A few satisfying puzzles that make a dungeon feel cohesive.
  • Innocent charm. They shouldn't try to make it too cutesy or too badass.

MetalKingShield

StuTwo

damien33ad wrote:

@StuTwo the problem here the that's worth noting that while TP may have some prblems a poorer entry Ina Zelda series still is a great game compared to other games. Some of the dungeons were dull but I liked a lot of them.

I’m not sure TP is a great game relative to other contemporary adventure or action games (though it certainly has some great moments)

I have a broader critique of the Zelda-Metroidvania template. I think it falls apart and ceases to be satisfying when the game becomes too big. This is particularly obvious with TP.

It’s no coincidence that the best games in the genre are all actually pretty short second time through. It’s probably an evolutionary dead end for AAA games.

Doing things like adding an RPG levelling system (also called “wasting my time” Castlevania), random drop “loot”, rogue lite elements, doubling down on dungeons (that’s you Skyward Sword) are just ways to try and circumvent that natural limit of the template.

To me the only way that has really been satisfying has been Hollow Knights’ built in alternate routes with alternate powers but even that can only extend the limits of the genre so far.

The story was great too especially the dark atmosphere. I've never played thru Skyward Sword I want to hoping to get a port

I thought the story was pretty generic and anything interesting dissipated in the back half of the game (although Midna was a great character). Skyward Sword has a good story.

The grim dark art style of TP didn’t really feel like a good fit to the series to me (again Skyward Sword nailed the look of the series for me - I’m glad BoTW took that style as it’s lead).

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Eel

Any grim dark atmosphere in TP breaks as soon as you see any of the various funny-looking npc clowning around.

Bloop.

My dead channel.

SMM2 Maker ID: 69R-F81-NLG

My Nintendo: Abgarok | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

Top

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic