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Topic: Still no Birdo in MK8 even with Deluxe?

Posts 61 to 80 of 82

Kinoen

@Joeynator3000
How so?

@Eric258
I know she didn't make the cut, it's why I made this thread >_>
True, but in a pack called "The Legend of Zelda" I do NOT expect anything outside of Zelda.

Apparently that's all I can do unless Nintendo decides to include Birdo as a free DLC character.

@MarcelRguez
How am I not? I'm not ignoring you or completely dismissing what you're saying for no reason.

Let's go with the 8 weight classes, than put each Koopaling into 3 weight classes, even though I would want all of them in one so that way we could have 7 available slots, but whatever.

@Pod
Hmm...how do you feel about the Excitebike track then?

I mean you could be right, I'm just reading numbers off of Wiki, but Nintendo could've increased it without changing those numbers. Like CoD guns not matching up to the damage scale.

Right?
But what else are they to do? If they made an Animal Crossing Kart, people would say it's a rip-off of Mario Kart and not buy it or people will say it's a cash grab since there's already Mario Kart. They could try to make another good spin-off game series, but I don't see that happening. Plus, I'm pretty sure Link and Isabelle are the top picks for MK8 and if that's the case, why would they want to make spin-offs for their other games when it's so much easier and profitable to just have them in Mario Kart?
Aye...but that would be dope though. I mean Odyssey shows Mario in "our" world, so what's to stop him from going to other Nintendo worlds?
Totally agree about Waluigi

You're welcome and clock-wise~

Kinoen

Kimyonaakuma

@Kinoen

"in a pack called "The Legend of Zelda" I do NOT expect anything outside of Zelda."
-Does that suggest that you would have wanted all of the content in the DLC to be Zelda themed? I feel that 3 zelda characters and two zelda themes would be awesome, but slightly out of place.

I would rather keep Nintendo "worlds" separate, as most of them are built around very different gameplay designs and may not mix with the Mario formula. I feel like the New Donk City level in Odyssey is just a reference to Mario's roots as a New York plumber and nothing more.

Kimyonaakuma

MarcelRguez

@Kinoen You are absolutely dismissing it for no reason. I own the game, you don't. Still, you first decided to trust a random wiki that isn't even edited properly. It's not like I'm making this up, I even linked to a strategy guide to support my claims.

Besides that, your argument was focused on adding one koopaling for each of the three weights, and add the rest as alts. The whole problem with that idea is that it falls apart the moment you realize there are not three weight classes, but seven. The koopalings are distributed through 5 of the 7 categories, which means your idea can't be implemented without messing with the original characters' weight. Which, going by size and body type, makes zero sense.

In other words, you are asking to break the internal logic of the game in order to implement a single character. Which wouldn't matter anyway, because changing the weight of those characters and adding them "as alts" still wouldn't solve the issue of dev time and resources. There are no "limited slots" in MK's roster, the whole idea of "saving space" in the CSS to add another character is ridiculous to begin with.

Edited on by MarcelRguez

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Kinoen

@Kimyonaakuma
Yes. EASILY.

And Pod feels the same, which is weird because I assumed the majority would like Nintendo IP's crossing paths. Especially if it's in party spin-off games.

@MarcelRguez
But I'm not.
Well I mean, would you trust what I have to say or double check with Wiki?

Didn't I address this with my last post? Put the 7 Koopalings ans Jr. into 3 weight classes, then make the skins.

I'm asking why Birdo couldn't be part of the roster when many variations are their own character.
I imagine you are saying that if the variation were skins, that wouldn't reduce the amount of wrok put into them? If so, I would disagree. Making a skin is loads easier than making a character. Grant it, the Koopalings skins would be harder to make than skins like Metal Mario.
If there's no limited slots in MK, than why not keep all racers from previous games?
What about CSS? "cascading style sheets"?

Kinoen

Kimyonaakuma

@Kinoen
Somebody needs to mod MK8 someday so that there is a full zelda grand prix!

Even though I'm not a huge fan of the idea, I would buy the game anyway! I wouldn't mind a new game that mixed all of the franchises but I would feel weird if there was one character in another's world.

Kimyonaakuma

MarcelRguez

@Kinoen I wouldn't check the wiki in the first place.

Kinoen wrote:

Didn't I address this with my last post? Put the 7 Koopalings ans Jr. into 3 weight classes, then make the skins.

You did, and it was still as nonsensical back then. If you had played the game, you'd know they are fairly different characters in terms of how they feel. This isn't Bowser Jr. in Smash 4, the koopalings just aren't comparable to things like the metal characters, and it obviously wouldn't make much sense for Roy to be as heavy as Morton, to point out the obvious.

Let me put it this way: you are trying to remove the unique feel of 4 characters in order to cram in the character you want. Doesn't that strike you as egotistical as hell?

Kinoen wrote:

I'm asking why Birdo couldn't be part of the roster when many variations are their own character

Because adding a new character >>>>>>>>> adding a dozen of variations as their own character in terms of effort and resources spent, yes.

Kinoen wrote:

if the variation were skins

I don't know the in and outs of how the Mario Kart team works, but if I had to make a guess...
If the variations (the metal characters, and nothing more) were skins, you still wouldn't "save" enough resources to include a new character made from the ground up. And what you fail to realize is that if you have to make unique models, animations and voices for each Koopaling skin, you might as well make them standalone characters. That's literally what constitutes a character in MK8, besides the required numerical values to determine its stats.

And the reason why previous characters are not brought over is because the team doesn't have the resources (again, time and budget) to add them. It has nothing to do with "making room" in the Character Select Screen for a new character. Birdo could have been part of the roster, nothing was stopping the devs from adding her. It's just literally everyone else that made the cut was more important in their eyes. That's it, that's the sole reason.

Edited on by MarcelRguez

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Kinoen

@Kimyonaakuma
Aye, but what game outside of Smash Bros. would Nintendo do that? It's a safe bet with MK since people will buy that game regardless.

@MarcelRguez
Just clarifying.
You say it wouldn't make sense for Roy to be in Morton's weight class, but without Wiki or any info, I would assume they would be in the same weight class. I don't get how you think it's "nonsensical" to split up the Koopalings into 3 weight groups. Putting them in varies weight classes just seems like extra work that wasn't really needed.

You only see my wanting to cram together characters to get in Birdo, but I'm pointing out how Birdo didn't get in when "skins" have their own slots.

I don't follow.

I would like to point out, outside of animations, the Koopalings in Smash all have their own voices and models, all while being skins. <- And if they went ahead and made each Koopaling a standalone character in Smash, there would be riots.

"...literally everyone else that made the cut was more important in their eyes" Yeah, and I wanna know why making "skins" as characters was more important than actual characters. The answer I expect to hear would be "They are easier to make".

Kinoen

MarcelRguez

Kinoen wrote:

You say it wouldn't make sense for Roy to be in Morton's weight class, but without Wiki or any info, I would assume they would be in the same weight class.

I could see how you'd come to that conclusion, given that you thought there were only 3 classes. However, there are not, and it's pretty easy to see how Roy would be more similar to DK or Waluigi than Bowser or Morton. He's noticeably smaller.

Kinoen wrote:

I don't get how you think it's "nonsensical" to split up the Koopalings into 3 weight groups. Putting them in varies weight classes just seems like extra work that wasn't really needed.

I don't think you know how this works. Changing the weight of a character could be as simple as editing a number on a character file. It's the simplest modification to do, but also the most meaningful to differentiate one character from another.

Kinoen wrote:

You only see my wanting to cram together characters to get in Birdo, but I'm pointing out how Birdo didn't get in when "skins" have their own slots.

This has already been adressed. They made a number of unique, non-"skin" characters. They ran out of time or budget to made more characters. To fill the roster, they made skins. It's the same thing that happened with Smash and every other game with clone characters under the sun.

Kinoen wrote:

I would like to point out, outside of animations, the Koopalings in Smash all have their own voices and models, all while being skins. <- And if they went ahead and made each Koopaling a standalone character in Smash, there would be riots.

I can't believe we've reached this level of explaining obvious things, but a character in Smash ≠ a character in MK. One is much more complex than the other, it's the reason why people have been able to mod Smash characters into MK8 but not viceversa.

You can create an entirely new character for MK8 with a 3D model, a set of animations, voices and sound effects. Apply that to the template racer (every characters shares the same properties), adjust a few parameters and bam, it's ready. In Smash, the defining line between being added as a standalone character and being added as a skin is the moveset. Others posters have already told you that having the Koopalings as an alt in Smash works because the moveset is tied to the clown car, not the pilot. Same moveset? You're a skin. The Koopalings, Alph, WL Wario, the gendered characters or Pikachu/Jigglypuff with a hat are not standalone characters for that same reason: it's just a cosmetic change. However, the moment you mess with the properties of the character, that's when it gets added as another part of the roster. Change how Marth's hitboxes work and you get Lucina. Change some specials and/or their recovery and strength and you get Dark Pit and Doctor Mario.

And yes, there would be riots. Do you know why? Because, cosmetics aside, the characters would play, again, exactly the same. That's why they are skins from a single character and not their own unique fighters.

Now take a wild guess at why the MK team decided not to add the Koopalings as Bowser Jr. alts.
It's because, unlike in Smash, they're different from one another
Now guess what makes them different from one another
Parameters such as their weight and weight class

Kinoen wrote:

Yeah, and I wanna know why making "skins" as characters was more important than actual characters. The answer I expect to hear would be "They are easier to make".

If by skins you are referring to the metal characters, yes, that's the short answer. The long answer is included in my previous post: if the variations (the metal characters, and nothing more) were skins, you still wouldn't "save" enough resources to include a new character made from the ground up.

Edited on by MarcelRguez

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Kinoen

@MarcelRguez
The fact Bowser is the heaviest character in MK is a little weird since him and DK have always been in the same ball-park, but then to say one of Bowser's kids in in his weight class is ludicrous. Not calling you a liar or anything, I'm justcalling out Nintendo for making one of his kids as heavy as Bowser.

So if it's that easy to change the weight of someone, why was it far-fetched to have the Koopalings in 3 categories?

Which I wouldn't mind (to much), like I didn't mind (to much) for Smash, but Smash didn't throw in 7 Marth's, 3 Yoshi's and 2 Zelda's all at once.

I'm fully aware of this.
I would not know why people would want to mod MK8 characters into Smash seeing as the majority is already there.

Doesn't everyone in MK play the same though? The only difference that affects game-play being weight and customizing karts?
In the long run I get what you're saying and is coming to gripes with how things went, I just wanted to voice dislike for Birdo not making a return...and my hatred for Cat Peach and Tanooki/Gold Mario, the Koopalings can get pass, but not those characters!

At the start of the thread, the Metal characters were included, but halfway through, I accepted them as characters. The variations as of this post, is Cat Peach and Tanooki/Gold Mario, since Cat and Tanooki had to be bought and was from the Legend of Zelda bundle. Gold because he was included as "DLC" via the Deluxe edition.

Kinoen

Stereoman

quick question @ op
did you buy mario kart8 for wiiu and mario kart8 deluxe for switch?

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MarcelRguez

@Kinoen I already answered your question about why it would be extremely weird to put the koopalings in just three classes.

Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario have different animations from their regular counterparts, so they aren't variations by MK standards.

@Stereoman Doesn't seem he did.

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Kinoen

@Stereoman
I bought MK8 + all DLC for the Wii U.

@MarcelRguez
So having different animations automatically gives Cat and Tanooki pass as characters? ESPECIALLY since you had to pay for them in MK8.

I would prefer you not answer on my behalf, thanks.

Kinoen

MarcelRguez

@Kinoen What the hell. You said two pages ago If I ever decide to get the game, I will look through it to find the list you supplied.. Your words, not mine.

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Bass_X0

Koopalings skins

They're not skins. Every Koopaling has their own unique character model. Well, Morton and Roy Koopa are similar.

What part of them suggests they are a reskin as opposed to every other character in the game?
Untitled

So having different animations automatically gives Cat and Tanooki pass as characters?

They were only in the game to promote/celebrate Super Mario 3D World.

ESPECIALLY since you had to pay for them in MK8.

They were included with everything else in their pack, so I imagine their actual cost as individual characters is actually quite low.

Edited on by Bass_X0

Edgey, Gumshoe, Godot, Sissel, Larry, then Mia, Franziska, Maggie, Kay and Lynne.

I'm throwing my money at the screen but nothing happens!

Kinoen

@MarcelRguez
For MK8D, not MK8.

@Bass_X0
AH HA! Someone else who agree Roy and Morton are similar.
This is where I would point to Smash, but we're well past that now.

But why have them in The Legend of Zelda bundle as opposed to a Super Mario 3D World one?

Given that characters in fighting games generally run for $5 per, I would imagine racing characters would be no more than $2.50, so yeah low, but still shouldn't have been added on just to run The Legend of Zelda bundle at a higher cost.

Kinoen

Kimyonaakuma

@Kinoen
I thought that they were in the Legend of Zelda pack to raise awareness for 3D world which released a week or two after DLC pack 1 came out.
I'm guessing that they only included Link because he features in all of the games and is the most well known character from the series. It's probably easier to design Link in the Mario Kart style anyway because Zelda and Ganon have gone through multiple redesigns and people would complain if the design that they liked didn't feature.
That would probably explain why there was just a generic Hyrule Castle track because it would also stop people from complaining that there was a Skyward Sword track instead of Twilight Princess track and so on...

Kimyonaakuma

Kinoen

@Kimyonaakuma
3D World release date: Nov. 21, 2013
MK8 Zelda DLC pack: Nov. 13, 2014
I would argue it's because Nintendo wanted to test the waters with Link to see if people would take to other Nintendo IP's joining MK.
Aye, taking the safe route seeing as Hyrule Castle is in practically every Zelda game.

Kinoen

Kimyonaakuma

@Kinoen
Wait.....IT WASN'T THE SAME YEAR??????
I'm too young to have a bad memory

Kimyonaakuma

Bass_X0

This is where I would point to Smash, but we're well past that now.

Still not the same. Big bulky Roy is not a reskin of little tiny Lemmy. But Inkling Boy is a reskin of Inkling Girl. Just switch back and forth from Inkling Boy to Inkling Girl on the character select screen to see what an actual reskin looks like.

Edgey, Gumshoe, Godot, Sissel, Larry, then Mia, Franziska, Maggie, Kay and Lynne.

I'm throwing my money at the screen but nothing happens!

Stereoman

@Kinoen
i would say u got simple buyers remorse. im sorry for that!
me personally got burned with crappy payed DLC on steam platform. we are young and do mistakes.now for future i will never buy ANY payed dlc on any platform ever again!
im actually very offended that BotW came with payed DLC.
That is why if i ever will buy a switch in 2018 or 2019, i will only get BotW from a bargain bin or game of the year edition.
Also as anecdotal evidence i saw nintendo getting very corrupt with the release of smash for WiiU and 3Ds. Whoever bought tiny DLCs which are worth like 3-5 individual 3ds games must have been quite blind, moms credit card syndrome OR dumb.
just my 2 cents

anyway i wish you happy gamin on MK8 for WiiU

Edited on by Joeynator3000

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