Nintendo's Recent Legal Action Against ROM-Sharing Sites Scares Major Player Into Removing Downloads

With the popularity of retro gaming soaring things like this are bound to happen.

That's a shame. I hadn't even heard of the other two sites but EmuParadise has been my go-to ROM site since I was a teenager.

Thanks, Nintendo. Good thing you make your backlog available to people who have your newest hardware ala Switch.

Well that's a shame!

I could understand this........if Nintendo made these games available to purchase on the eshop. It's not like they can't!

Well at least Nintendo make it easy to buy these games from them on the Switch, oh wait........

Ok, business as usual. There are always other ways and bays...

It's a shame but ultimately it's not like we have a right to these games. I'm still none the wiser why public domain is so essential for preservation. Surely the ROMs are fine simply stored somewhere.
They aren't showing Star Wars at my cinema. Doesn't give me the right to steal a DvD from HMV.
It's also hard to justify code has no value when there is a billion dollar industries selling polygon micro transactions. This is Nintendo protecting their interests. It's hard to say these games won't show up ever.

This has got to have something to do with their online service. Why bother to crack down on this now when its been going on for years.

You can literally get a "NESpack" with just about every NES ROM you could ever want with 1 or 2 google search. Just keep them on your SD card

Who downloads one ROM at a time from a website in 2018?. The SEGA Genesis RPG pack is 23 Megs total.

@Spoony_Tech probably now Nintendo are using their old library as a lure for people to care about their online subscription that want to make sure you can’t just get them for free elsewhere.

@EightBitMan Nintendo's not the only one.

@EightBitMan You bought a game, played it, and that's where the consumer/corporation involvement requirements end.
So Nintendo didn't send you a birthday cake or get well card, simply because you bought so many products. Neither did Johnson & Johnson. Doesn't mean you should go steal toothpaste from the pharmacy. You're acting entitled. "People like you" have negative feelings because they choose too, not because some corporate monstrosity is forcing them to act like a miserable person all the time. We get it, you don't like Nintendo. And that's okay, no one says you have to like them or hate them. But to act as though you deserve something beyond what you paid for is a bit nonsensical.

Edit: I forgot to mention that it's improbable that you personally supported this company in its infancy. Nintendo is 128 years old.

@CptProtonX The problem with that is that the public domain has been creeping away from us for years. Every time Mickey Mouse threatens to go into the public domain the 70 years after the creator's death jumps farther ahead in time. None of this stuff is in the public domain but mostly because the public domain has been continuously broken down over the last century.

@GrailUK a big part of this is that you can go buy that Star Wars DVD, the vast majority of the these roms aren't available to buy anywhere and likely never will be again

Personally, this is a shame for me because I've been using Emuparadise for years now. Not just for roms, but the forums and the music sections. Rom sharing will never go away and if Emuparadise dies, an entire community of fans will need somewhere else to go. If Nintendo want those fans to support them then I'm not sure after this they will.

inb4 everyone uses this as an excuse to say Nintendo is evil

@aznable Lol what backlog? NES games and arcade rehashed rubbish? Lol, keep suckin' up to them.

Where are the NES games?
Where are the N64 games?
Where are the Snes games?
Where are the GBA games?

Yeah, no on Switch. Sorry, but screw them.

@CptProtonX Yeah, I think some folks are forgetting that by and large, these sites are receiving ad revenue. The only reason traffic is driven to their page is people wanting ROMs that the site has no legal method to profit from. Like it or not, the legal argument can lay out the a site is profiting from the distribution of items that are not their property. Is there a better solution for consumers? Sure there is, but that's not what's being debated, and it's not the right avenue to do it. If people who defend ROM sharing sites truly care so strongly about it being a positive way to safeguard old games, perhaps they should form some sort of consumer advocacy group and reach out to publishers and developers.

These roms sites have zero legal right to provide Nintendo roms...stop whining about it guys. I for one am glad to see Nintendo cracking down on them.

I can understand this but if Nintendo got their act together these sites would formulate less often! Although they have taken some steps forward on the Switch with Donkey Kong and sky skipper, they still have a ways to go!! And then there’s the old Great games with licensing issues....don’t see that ever being solved!

@EightBitMan,

I don't think Nintendo will care all that much..if I am being honest.

@carlos82 Gah, this is going to turn into a long discussion (sorry!). While these ROM sites are up and running, it devalues the games. Aslong as you can get them for free, why would anyone pay for it. If the sites were not up. then companies can see a margin in their code again and more inclined to release them. You argue these games will never get released...of course they won't while they are worthless.

Seems a bit odd, they've been breaking the law for the best part of two decades and I don't understand why they've been able to get away with it for so long... Nintendo could have gone after them at any point, why are they worried now?

Wow. I really do hope some sort of agreement can be struck between the ROM sites and gaming publishers. Honestly, it's the gamers who are losing the most in all this. C'mon Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft, strike some agreements here, only you guys can do it.

@nessisonett Those "fans" are not supporting Nintendo if they're downloading illegal roms. Why do so many people think that they're "entitled" to steal Nintendo owned game roms? You want to play a game, BUY IT!

EmuParadise has always sucked to be honest.

@MeloMan How are "gamers" losing anything here? That's complete nonsense. I'm a gamer, but I don't steal my games, I buy them.

@Skunkfish Probably because they're providing devices that play some of those roms now.

I don’t mind Nintendo taking action against companies that share an illegal ROM of, say, Super Mario Bros. 3. You can buy and play that game legally on several different consoles, including Wii, Wii U, 3DS and NES Classic Mini. But hopefully, this won’t effect the chance to download games that are unavailable to the public, say Turtles in Time.

Illegal roms news... how exciting!

@Agramonte You could download a complete set the entire NES library for around 200MBs. I don't know why anyone with an interest in emulation wouldn't just have them all on their hard drive anyway.

@GrailUK Well, regardless of what any of us think about mass-scale piracy or illegally downloading ROMs, that DVD stealing comparison is incorrect.

The original cartridge or ROM isn't stolen, so that remains untouched. Only copies are distributed. These kinds of things are exactly the reason why I tend to remain in the middle ground on this topic, because I both understand the need for legal practices, but also the desire to be able to play these, often decades old games, but having almost no other reasonable way to obtain or play them.

I've also done my share of downloading in the past, but I've also bought for thousands upon thousands of euros worth of hardware and software. But, regardless, I do see the merit in sharing and keeping software alive, instead of keeping it locked away somewhere in some company vault, where no one can ever see it anymore, let alone play it.

And it gives the companies too much leverage. They're not listening: most people could easily be persuaded to go legal, if there would be a reasonably priced alternative, and they want a good selection of titles, and not just the same ones every damn generation, like Nintendo often tends to do.

And Nintendo specifically, also needs to take note of the online model that Microsoft and Sony use, which gives players some free games to play every month, and also allows them to keep some of them.

If every game from past generations is going to be kept behind lock and key by these companies, then it's ultimately the gamer/consumer, that loses.

@EightBitMan I’d love to hear how you found out that more than 30.6 million people who owned a NES now hate Nintendo, as most people would say that’s a pretty bold claim.

@EightBitMan Thank you, I couldn't agree more. No matter what kind of fuc@ up Nintendo make, fans are always giving Nintendo a pass.

@Amsterdamsters Oh? A total of 51 games? Wow, what a selection, only 900 more go to between the NES and Snes!

@eightbitman @mikegamer
Christ, can't read sarcasm huh?

I'll give you the subtext-

Nintendo, I'm not actually thanking you. Your backlog is nowhere to be seen.

@EightBitMan "supported this company in it's infancy" LMAO! Yeah, okay. How's your 130-year-old hanafuda card collection looking?

@GrailUK They aren't showing Star Wars at my cinema. Doesn't give me the right to steal a DvD from HMV.

You can buy a Star Wars DVD new, you can't buy these retro games new.

@Amsterdamsters Nintendo owned game roms? You want to play a game, BUY IT!

Ok, tell me where to pick up a new copy of Lufia 2.

@GrailUK but they're not worthless even when hosted, the NES and SNES classic sold very well despite all of their games being easily available online, in fact many bought them to add more games. Then of course you have a huge number of licensed games or those by companies out of business and these can never see the light of day, look at Goldeneye, nobody seems to know who owns it. Nintendo may only be going after their own games but affects 1000's of other games which aren't available as sites get taken offline.

If Nintendo made these available to buy it'd be a different story and some of these will no doubt appear with the subscription service but many will never come out again.

@Crono1973 Of course you can: NES classic, SNES classic, wii u e shop and nintendo 3ds eshop

@Ensemen Of course you can: NES classic, SNES classic, wii u e shop and nintendo 3ds eshop

Lufia II is available on which one? How about Dragon Warrior or Illusion of Gaia or Chrono Trigger?

@carlos82 Just like the DVD you can buy the cartridge/disc.

@Crono1973 Lufia II? It’s on Etsy for $15. I just checked.
Edit; added game title

@HobbitGamer Well now, how does Nintendo make money from something bought on Etsy?

LOL, I just looked it up. Here you are trying to sell me on a reproduction cartridge while condemning ROMS, too funny.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/601515335/lufia-ii-rise-of-the-sinistrals-generic?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=lufia%20ii&ref=sr_gallery-1-1

@Crono1973 They don’t, but that wasn’t your question. You just wanted to know how to get it. Yeah, I know where this will go next; If Nintendo doesn’t get money, it doesn’t matter if I download it.
I don’t care. I’m just telling you that the game is available for purchase.

@Crono1973 Do Nintendo even own the rights to those games?

Are we allowed to name sites in this thread or not?

@Ensemen Answer is no.

Yes you can buy some of the VC games on 3DS and Wii U and no I don't count NES and SNES mini, it's stupid to buy a seperate system for old games while even a (New) 3DS can run them.

Portability aside there is NO virtual console on the Switch.

Nintendo has the right to remove this roms and sue the websites providing, but nintendo has no right to act like a little baby that it's costs them money and that it's "unfair competition" because they don't even provide most of these games on the 3DS and Wii U, and in case of the Switch at all.

@HobbitGamer I am just telling you that the $15 copy of Lufia II is a reproduction made from a DOWNLOADED ROM. Could you have a worse example?

Further, Nintendo wants to shut down these ROM sites presumably because they think that people downloading ROMS is a lost sale. Most of these games are just not available from Nintendo and will likely never be.

I want to thank you though for the information on Lufia II, I just ordered it.

@HobbitGamer It's a repro you know, Nintendo doesn't get a penny from that, same with roms.

In essence repro is not much different than downloading a rom.

They COULD earn money if it was on the eShop.

@Crono1973 meh, I didn’t read the description. I’m sure a hard copy is out there. But Nintendo doesn’t make a sale anyway.

@Rayquaza2510 like I said, I didn’t read it. Yay me

@HobbitGamer You didn't need to read the description, it's in the title: Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals Generic Super Nintendo SNES Cartridge - 16-Bit Cart Reproduction

Crazy huh.

@aznable Wow, sarcasm on the internet, never heard that one before. Keep it up, it'll take you far.

@Crono1973 Nope I didn’t read the whole thing. I was a terrible zombie consumer. I get what you were trying to say, and I was trying to be funny, not like an “I’ll show that hell bound devil thief that stealing kills babies” way
Edit: Glad you found it cheap! Better than buying EarthBound times in life, before it was cheap on eshop

@HobbitGamer I bought a reproduction cartridge for Chrono Trigger too a month ago. Some of these games are crazy expensive and if not for ROMS (on a repro cart or not) make these games available to people who can't afford to pay $150 for Chrono Trigger and so on.

Nintendo isn't even helping themselves by removing all Nintendo ROMS from the internet as they aren't even offering many of them to consumers.

@AlternateButtons it will hurt nintendo in the end, it still pissed people off that they didn't release any VC on the Switch.

I bought two CD-Rs packed with SNES games in 1998. If I can find the CDs and they haven't succumbed to disc rot, then they should continue to exist, even after the internet is taken down.. Problem solved.

@Crono1973 Right, I've payed $80+ for EarthBound copies before, so I get that. That was before repro copies were a thing.
I really think that consumers wanting a solution should form a consumer group or something. Nintendo's not the only one that could benefit from opening their catalog on the existing platforms.

@Darlinfan Yes I downloaded Earthbound and Super Metroid roms and played them for years... until Nintendo came up with these 2 on the 3DS and I got them and never touched the roms of these games again.

Not everybody is a pirate, and not everybody has 300+ dollars for a Earthbound copy, because I refuse to buy a fake reproduction cartridge.

@Crono1973 Chrono Trigger has been released on lots of platforms, you can buy it on Steam right now. If you want to buy the SNES ROM image, speak to Square Enix.

@timson72 that's not actually true though is it? None of these cartridges or discs are available at retail anymore or in production, where as the DVD's are. Being able to buy them used isn't the same as none of that money goes to the publisher/developers

@Skunkfish that's NOW the case because for years the PS1 and SNES variants were the only options out there.

Until Square Enix fixed it in some way.

I will be more cautious with my purchases from Nintendo for now on, i am not buying the same games over and over again.

@Darlinfan I admit it but don't care because these games have all had 20+ years to make companies money which they have, and I have physical complete backups of most old console libraries so it is kind of meh. The bigger issue here is it is going to create a new black market for roms the harder Nintendo pushes where people will definitely make money off of them in areas where the internet sucks.

@Fearful-Octopus sometimes I wonder if Nintendo even wants our money... (has barely anything to do with this article btw)

@Jokerwolf the only thing what Nintendo does now is trying to solve a "problem" but refuses to come with a solution.

Every problem has a solution, if you refuse to solve it then the problem will exist no matter what you do.

@Skunkfish If you want to buy the SNES ROM image, speak to Square Enix.

You think Square Enix will re-release the SNES cartridge?

I have mixed feelings about this. To be perfectly honest, I find myself in all camps of thought:

So, I have an SNES Classic that is modded. It is only modded with games that have never, nor will ever, see release in North America (Terranigma, Live a Live, Seiken Desetsu 3, etc.) I would never add games that are readily available, even though I do think that Nintendo could make things much easier on themselves by adding a dedicated VC to Switch. However, they seem to have a plan that is working for them, and I'm sure that it wasn't as easy of a decision as "we're just not going to do it."

I'll be the first to admit that Nintendo/any copyright holder owes me nothing. Adding the games to my Classic boils down to simply having access to a number of games that I have desperately wanted to play for over twenty years. I was certainly more in the wrong than in the right. Do I regret doing it? No. Terranigma turned out to be one of the best games that I have ever played, and I have told countless friends about it, who had never even heard of it!

There are gamers who will ape an entire console's library. All the more power to them, but I could never do it. Even still, I'm just as in the wrong as they are, but I don't regret it.

I understand the problem with keeping those old games lost to time and inaccessibility available to those who seek it, but I also understand where Nintendo's legal dept. is coming from.

There needs to be a middle ground. Perhaps if these ROM outlets only provided access to ROMs you can't find in the marketplace? Have someone on board who checks daily each ROM's availability to ensure they're not stepping on any toes. This is still technically an illegal practice, but it seems to me that Nintendo is mainly going after the avenues with easy access to games they provide for sale in some form.

Meanwhile, you can still find practically anything you want out there if you do enough digging. Like others have said, it's so easy to just download a retro console's entire library in a ZIP file. Piracy never truly goes away, so why are the pirates so upset?

@Crono1973 I love your sarcasm lol, because you take it so literally

@Crono1973 Why would you need a "new" copy of the game?!? The rom isn't "new". eBay has several used ones for sale.

@Amsterdamsters and fakes....

I do get his point

Meanwhile Nintendo cries about financial unfairness because of roms but my wallet is waiting to buy their old games on the Switch.

@Amsterdamsters As has already been stated, this is about Nintendo taking down ROM sites because they believe it leads to lost sales. Which means from Nintendo's perspective, a used copy makes them exactly as much as a ROM or a reproduction cart, $0.

@mikegamer Those other 849 games not being out does not give you anymore right at all to steal those games. Buy a NES or SNES and hunt down the game you want for it.

@Amsterdamsters Buy a NES or SNES and hunt down the game you want for it.

How does Nintendo benefit from that?

@Crono1973 The point is, it's Nintendo's game, not mine, not yours. They have every right to protect what's theirs. It's not even a question, it the law.

@Amsterdamsters and Nintendo doesn't earn anything from those games, because used.

Nintendo earn money from new games and digital ones from the eshop, all the other ways you can buy games won't earn them a penny.

And still they say this is "unfair competition".

That aside you call this stealing, so if I buy a game and make a copy of it for personal use it's stealing too? Nope.

And no it's not a law, they want to protect their IP's but meanwhile they also b**ch about non-nintendo games on their systems.

I get the point they want to protect their IP's but you won't solve the problem if you refuse to look how to solve it.

@Crono1973 Well, I was referring to the binary image only, but if it makes business sense, then yeah, why not?

@Crono1973 Where did I say that Nintendo benefits from it? They benefited from the original sale. While that same cartridge could be resold several times, It's not the same as a game getting downloaded tens of thousands of times from one sale.

How many years is it before works such as games become public domain? I don’t believe that the Dickens family still get royalties every time a new version of a Christmas carol is released

@Rayquaza2510 Not to mention there is only a finite number of physical games that exist for all retro console and those numbers continue to shrink by the day. Eventually where will be no other way to obtain any old games other than from digital means.

@Rayquaza2510 The difference here is 'buy a game'. That's kind of an important factor... And the copy for personal use is questionable where it means breaking copy protection.

@Skunkfish They won't even release the ROM for a fee. If they did that would be great but it isn't happening. I also doubt Nintendo is a fan of the used game market.

@Jokerwolf exactly

@Rayquaza2510 If Nintendo is attacking rom sites then i believe they maybe thinking about a VC maybe in the future. I picked up a fair amount of retro games on wii, and wii u eshop and i don't plan on triple dipping.

The way I look at it, if they really want to take rom sharing as an issue, they should be re-releasing all the games that are being shared. If the only way to buy a game is by paying ridiculous prices for it second hand on ebay, nobody is getting paid for it besides the collectors who are selling the items. The companies who created the content still get nothing even if second hand copies are the only thing around anymore.

If they want to put an end to this, they need to get a proper way to buy all of these games new again.

@Amsterdamsters To Nintendo, it's the same. They make no money from either.

@Skunkfish tell nintendo my wallet is waiting but they don't want my money.

Yes I have a lot of games on my old systems, but that's me a lot of people don't have a SNES or other systems because of how expensive the hobby is.

My Switch is still waiting and so is my wallet, and I'm not the only 1 out there.

@JayJ If they want to put an end to this, they need to get a proper way to buy all of these games new again.

A service like GOG for console games.

@Rayquaza2510 If you then resell the original and keep the backup, yes, that's still stealing. Nintendo owes you NOTHING. If your game stops working the day after the warranty expires, they owe you NOTHING. Fricken people and their moronic "entitlement" mentality.

@Fearful-Octopus i believe they maybe thinking about a VC maybe in the future.

This time it's on their online service which will restart the drip feed. You still won't see most of these games.

@Crono1973 Who the F cares? That does not give anyone the right to steal!!!

@Crono1973 thanks to GOG I bought so many games I could never get legally again, but compared to Nintendo GOG does want my money.

@Amsterdamsters indeed stealing is bad and that is why Nintendo themself sold a mario game via virtual console that was based on a downloaded rom, from the internet.

So come up with a workable solution and then we talk further.

@Fearful-Octopus The problem is, by doing this they are pushing out non Nintendo games, or companies that would never re-release an older game or do not have the ability to do so, there are many companies that no longer exist that created games that Nintendo can never put on an eShop due to licencing rights and issues which his the most disheartening thing. So even though they may have an amazing selection, it will never be the entire library.

@Crono1973 That would be great! For CD games they could make it easy for you to burn a disc that will function just like the retail copy (and therefore getting around one of the biggest issues for CD based game preservation). For cartridge based games they could release a special cartridge for various consoles that lets you load games on it. Even without this stuff, you could still enjoy the games on a PC with an emulator, and if you bought the games that you are playing I don't see how it would be any worse than playing them any other way.

@Rayquaza2510 Well they're taking their games and intellectual property and selling it for free, of course that's "unfair competition" and of course are they entitled to "whine" about that. They sold a product and if you didn't get it or broke it that's your fault, not the company's.

@Jokerwolf No Tmnt turtles in time games like that i understand.

@JayJ There could be a clone console that plays your purchased ROMS from a USB stick or and SD Card. The possibilities are endless but Nintendo is Nintendo.

Right now, the best way to play SNES cartridges is on a clone with HDMI support. Real carts, fake carts, clone consoles....anything is possible and Nintendo is NOT in control even though they think they should be. They could be making money from these games but they just want to take them away.

@GrailUK It is ridiculous to think roms devalue the collectors market, they have been around forever and it hasn't made classic games any cheaper. Even if it did I don't see how a second hand market and the values attached to it would have any impact on companies that are no longer selling anything that is being shared or collected.

*casually walks back out.

Not touching this topic with a 20ft barge pole.

@Ensemen there is no competition if the games aren't available on current systems, except the few VC games on 3DS and Wii U ofcourse.

It's like I would say it's unfair competition that a seller next to my shop sells computers while I don't, it would be unfair if nintendo sold these games and you could download them for free.

And you can't fully count VC, we are talking about thousands of old games and VC has maybe 100 to 200 of them, for those 200 max it's unfair... but how long will that last considering there is still no VC on the Switch, in the end there is no competition.

They whine about rom sites "giving away" for free their 20+ year old games while Nintendo themself doesn't sell 99% of them currently, the only thing Nintendo can whine about is that it's their IP and they don't like it, financially there is no competition.

@Rayquaza2510 Nintendo are probably the only ones that DO have the right to download all their titles from ROM sites. No crime being committed by them there!

@Skunkfish so in essence you say Reggie is allowed to walk into any store and steal Nintendo games, because he works for Nintendo and they made these games/hold the rights for them.

ehm no that doesn't work that way lol

@Crono1973 @JayJ Something like a Netflix-type rotational service would be nice. Sort of like that Xbox Gamepass thingy. Didn't the Satella View have something like that? or was it the Famicom (where you'd take a cartridge to a vendor)

you realize roms arent going anywhere.... right?

@Rayquaza2510 Erm, no... Those games have been purchased (perhaps on credit) by the distributor/shop so that would be stealing from the shop, causing them a loss. Not ok.

Nintendo made these games and they can do whatever the hell they want with them, including protecting them.

Who here thinks it was right that the IGN writer was sacked for plagirism? Is this not similar?

@Skunkfish preciesly

@Skunkfish Well atleast you are acknowledging the difference between theft and making a copy which is copyright infringement.

@EightBitMan all the best then, bye!

Nintendo is in the right on this and i stand by Nintendo on this

@ThanosReXXX You sound like you are one step away from campaigning for the rights of old games lol Many held behind lock and key. Just £2 a month can find these ROMS a home... (joking mate )

@Crono1973 Well, they used to refer to copyright infringement as copyright theft here in the UK which served to blur the lines a little...

@HobbitGamer It still will not be good since there are hundreds if not thousands of games that will never come to a service like that.

@Rayquaza2510 Which bit made sense? About next doors shop selling computers?

For all those [removed] at Nintendo, take something you own, something you created. Imagine everyone telling you that you either make it available or they are going to go and take it anyway. Nintendo has a massive old catalog of games obviously and it is solely up to them and their investors which ones they work on to release again. Many are in a state of legal limbo due to expired licenses etc. I’ve no idea how much in terms of resources it requires but if Nintendo thought there was a huge profit potential they would likely make more of these old games available. Either way the entitled stance that so many take is just ridiculous. Nintendo owes nothing and it’s sad that we live in a world where there are so many people who are fine with stealing something if that is their only means of obtaining it.

@carlos82 Bah. Really wish I could comment on that. I honestly have no idea of the type of folk who bought the classics were. I don't believe many who had downloaded Nintendo's entire back catalogue onto a Pi went out and bought a classic. That would seem an overly obsessive waste of money to me. Awesome discussion though mate

Yes i have roms yes i understand it is illegal and do i care? not in the slightest end of the day for me using roms is easier and cheaper than having to hunt down and buy all the old games i want to play roms keep these games alive

@EightBitMan If you are done with Nintendo does that mean you are done with Nintendolife, because that would be a win win.

@GrailUK Yesss, @ThanosReXXX can do a commercial asking for donations to the Save a Game campaign, complete with Sarah Mclachlan music in the background.

LOL

@Orpheus79V exactly... I can understand people not wanting 100GB of Wii games for Dolphin. But retro games are tiny.

@smithpa01

I am glad you are content with what you do.

If people want to break the law and download ROMs, that's their choice. I just don't understand their feeling of entitlement to do so....

@Skunkfish Well copyright theft would be taking away Nintendo's copyright. Making illegal copies is copyright infringement.

@SBandy You must be a troll to not understand that there are a finite amount of physical copies of games that exist and Nintendo fighting this is doing nothing in the end except hurting the video game art form.

I can see why Nintendo is doing this but frankly I don't care. Nintendo has made 0 effort to bring back old games on the eshop or bringing back VC instead giving us overpriced rom machines that look like the old systems but dont offer space for physical playback of genuine carts or a store for more games. Plus how long have they been jerking us around about Mother 3?

Ya know what, screw them. I played just about every old school Nintendo game I missed out on for free and played and beaten Mother 3 and I didn't pay a dime. Nintendo didn't give me an option so I made one.

Until Nintendo actually decides to be pro consumer in regards to their older titles I'm happy as can be downloading ROMs.

@Crono1973 I think they publicised it as theft to make it more understandable as a crime for the layman. But back in those days it was literally selling knock-off floppy disks and carts on market stalls...

@Cloud-Strife You and @EightBitMan sure seem to hold an pretty idiotic grudge against Nintendo and claiming Nintendo fans let them pass whatever they do. You honestly believe Nintendo fans let Nintendo pass on whatever silly thing you think they did wrong? You need to get your eyes check.

Honestly, I feel sorry for you for agreeing with EightBitMan. If EightBitMan is done with Nintendo, then he shouldn't be on a site that is Nintendo related. And if you don't like Nintendo as well, then you shouldn't be on a site that is related to a company you and EightBitMan don't like.

@Jokerwolf

Yes getting things for free through dodgy at best means will most definitely benefit the gaming art form in the long run because not rewarding the companies who made those games can only be a good thing.

@Amsterdamsters I have bought all roms I've downloaded. I prefer to play them on an emulator for ease of access, screen filters, speeding up etc. I don't have the time or patience to rip them myself so I use services like Emuparadise. Either way, Nintendo get the same amount of money they normally would.

@Rayquaza2510 No it's "unfair competition" that the shop next door sells YOUR computers.

@SBandy because not rewarding the companies who made those games can only be a good thing

How should we reward Nintendo in this case?

@nessisonett Unfortunately you're the exception rather than the rule. For every person looking for a backup of their purchased games, there are 10,000 looking to play something they haven't bought for free...

@Skunkfish Well, I would say that ROMS allow me to demo a game that I may buy on the VC or on the real cartridge. If I don't like it well enough to buy it, I won't be playing it for very long anyway.

Wow, look at all those games whose companies no longer exist and don't give developers a cent of revenue. Poor Nintendo, they must be hurting so badly financially right now from all those games that don't give them money sobs X3

Sorry, but until the Switch has a good digital library of games besides nauseating NES games, count me out.

I'm going back playing my ROMs, I'm not touching this topic...

@SBandy You do not comprehend anything beyond monetary capitalist values and that is ok, but intelligent people do and we will fight for things you do not believe in which will benefit you and yours in the future.

Don't get me wrong, in the past I've played pretty much every SNES game as an illegally downloaded ROM. I just don't believe I had any right to, and if anything I owe Nintendo, no vice versa as some people seem to think!

@Crono1973

Not stealing their stuff. It is quite simple. They are the creators and should have the choice what to do with their games.

@SBandy Not stealing their stuff. It is quite simple.

I have never hacked into Nintendo's servers and copied then erased a ROM file. That's what it would take for me to steal a ROM from Nintendo.

@Jokerwolf

Get real! How are you fighting exactly oh great one?! How are you benefiting my future generations?

@Crono1973

Thats good!

@SBandy You are a sheep, and sheep do not understand higher forms of thought and expression.

@SBandy Preserving and making available games that corporations probably won't.

I think Nintendo is in the right on this. And as a Nintendo long time fan and buyer of their games, I agree with the company.

I mean, sure, ROMs are a way to play classic games, but using ROMs illegally is not okay. And if Nintendo's promising (imo) classic game library contains classic games other than NES (which I will enjoy) on their Online Service, then I will gladly pay and renew my Nintendo Switch Online Service subscription whenever I get funds for the serivce.

@Alantor28 Nintendo is being so vague about what games they will release on their online service that it's insane to give them the benefit of the doubt. Just look at how they handled the VC on the Wii U and 3DS. We are facing another drip feed AND this time they are just rentals that end when you stop paying.

@Jokerwolf

Ah so you have no answer because you don't have an original thought in your body. Fair enough!

@Crono1973

At least you gave a somewhat legitimate answer. I still don't accept it though.

@Crono1973 And I will keep supporting Nintendo. I'm sure what you describe won't happen or maybe it will, but I paid no mind to it.

It is Nintendo’s legal right to protect their IP. Their rationale for doing it is irrelevant.

To say ROM sites don’t affect Nintendo is blatantly erroneous. They have already released two mini consoles of old games, and have an online service coming with retro games being a major selling point.

You can be pissed off that the old games aren’t readily available for purchase, but don’t act like you’re entitled to them.

@Alantor28 Of course what I described will happen. It's a netflix type service that gives you access only as long as you keep paying. Further, the drip feed is the way Nintendo does retro gaming and it will happen here too.

@Bondi_Surfer Those mini consoles are selling out. Perhaps you can show that ROM sites are hurting the mini consoles.

As for their online service, they won't be releasing most of those games on their service. It will be the same stuff we saw on the VC and on the mini consoles.

I support Nintendo on this. I wanna sell my nes and snes Games for good monies. I wanna sell it to people who want to buy it legitimately even though I will charge them 2 times the value. Some games I can make even more monies.
Although Nintendo doesn’t benefit from this, I don’t really care. I care about me

@Alantor28 I like Nintendo, but I don't have to love them or agree with everything they do.
I read the news of this site to keep track of the games I'm waiting for.

well that sucks, emuparadise was great for the once in a while rom download. nice and easy, they had everything you could want. but i suppose there will always be somewhere to get roms if you really want them.

i just hate the whole "somebody got taken down and now were scared too" thing like when megaupload went down years ago. sad day, ALOT of great stuff lost forever as sooo many sites just bailed after that out of fear of similar repercussions. still, its the internet, you can still get most of whats out there if you really want to.

its just so pointless for nintendo to be worried about ancient games that they havent distributed in all these years and may no longer have rights to anyway.

When the Wii came out, one of the selling points should have been an emulator on the console which allowed you to play ALL of Nintendo's ancient back catalog. If you can do it yourself on a computer, why the heck cant Nintendo seem to be able to figure that out?
Plus, it would be a really nice thank you to long time customers like myself and a great entry point for newer customers. But noooooo, they just wanna make a buck now and milk everybody for everything that they can, for the millionth time..
They arent all bad but this stuff is BS.

@SBandy I gave plenty of legitimate reasons earlier in the comments you just don't like to read apparently.

@EightBitMan "I'm so through with this company, I decided they aren't even worth my precious storage space anymore."

You hear that? It's the world's smallest violin. Cry me a river.

@1UP_MARIO Torrents can never be taken away so they will always be on the internet, they are wasting time and money on this that they could spend on making their online service even better.

Man, it's been a whirlwind day! Accounting reports, then Smash Direct, then discussing various things like entitlements, bowel movements, and distribution of goods and services. Good stuff I think we all managed to get more comments than the 5 or so smash articles combined, haha.

@Jokerwolf @Crono1973 @Rayquaza2510

@Jokerwolf I'm sure they've appointed lawyers for this, not web developers. Also, it's harder to promote the download of old games as a selling point when they're freely available all over the internet. If you want to make money selling something that only you have the right to sell or distribute, it makes sense to get rid of the illegal competition.

@Skunkfish I have all of their games accross all of their hardware backed up on storage solutions in fire proof safes and I STILL buy re-releases when I have them for free, I have no issue with re-buying games on new hardware and never have. This is just a pussy move by Nintendo and they know it and we all know it.

@Agramonte PSX, Gamecube, Wii, PS2, etc. have large games... it's pretty hard to download them all at once, especially if you have slow internet.

Honestly, as mush as i hate it and as much as it sucks

it's in their right to do so, and piracy isn't something you should take for granted.

At the end, does it sucks? kinda, it does, it should not be that bad if Nintendo had most of these games avalaible, but that's exactly the reason it sucks so much

Investors are probably pushing for this kind of [removed], so what can they do.

@Faruko The main issue is many games are tied up in legal red tape that will never get resolved so the only way they will ever be made available is through roms/illegal backups, end of story.

@Jokerwolf This has absolutely zero effect on you then, since you have all the games already? Why the complaining? And anyone who REALLY wants to get them illegally still can.

These ROM sites have been acting unlawfully whether Nintendo takes action or not, it's just that nothing would happen unless they do. They're certainly not innocent parties here, they're effectively criminal organisations!

Just a note... I ran a GBC ROM site back in the late 90s, releasing ROM images before the games had even hit the shelves in some cases. We had thousands of visitors per day. Was I right to do so? Was I hell...

What's the alternative to taking down these ROM sites? If they continue to turn a blind eye and let people download these games for free, what does it do to the value of their back catalogue?

@GrailUK Something like that, but knowing Nintendo, it'll probably be £7 instead of £2...
(well, at least: if there's an option for actually buying and owning them, which is what most people would want, methinks)

@HobbitGamer Nah... no campaign and nice background music needed: I'll just scowl at them, and hover an Infinity stone-encrusted, golden-gloved fist over their heads, just in case they show any signs of not complying...

@ReaderRagfish The name may say Eightbitman, but the behaviour says eight-year old boy.

@Skunkfish The name may say Eightbitman, but the behaviour says eight-year old boy.

Do you know how to tell if a person has lost the debate? When they resort to personal attacks.

@Skunkfish Has it hurt the value of their back catalog?

@Crono1973 That's hard to prove one way or the other...

@Jokerwolf Wait what, how does that has anything to do with the topic at hand, that in any way or shape justifies ilegal roms

@Crono1973 I wasn't debating with Eightbitman, just calling out his behaviour...

Well done, as always, Mr. Craddock.

@EightBitMan wow. Why even bother with sites like this? I’ve been a Nintendo fan for 30+ years and something like this doesn’t bother me even a little. I don’t have emulators or ever had any interest in them. There are more then enough video games legally available that I have never thought about. There is plenty of great bands out there yesterday who’s music is lost to time today. It’s a shame, but it’s ultimately up to the creator on what happens to that. We all hate on Nintendo for this like this, but I still have my Wii U hooked up, next to my switch, along side my 300+ games loaded on it, countless VC games that I got for free through old club Nintendo, that I can still play at any moment because I still have a box of wiimotes sitting on the shelf next to my switch accessories. I don’t care if switch ever gets a VC since I am not even going to think about rebuying the same games. Not even going to mention my 3ds. We all know that when Nintendo online service goes live, so does it’s newest version of its “virtual console”.
I also think Nintendo will start the first “Netflix” of gaming for its retro stuff. But since we know next to nothing yet, I’m just guessing. I think dark souls release then too. Not happy they holding stuff back, but not going to quit Nintendo for it either.

@NEStalgia Well, don't celebrate too soon: we haven't crossed the 200 comments threshold yet...

@EightBitMan i didn't know you were over 100 years old.

@Jokerwolf

You did not provide me with any legitimate reasons you just presented some facade of being someone who knew better when we all know that isn't the case. I am not going to read through 150 plus comments to see what you said because you called out me, not the other way around.

You are welcome to set out your reasons to me directly and please try and do it without sounding like a complete smug arse as maybe then I will consider them properly.

Bring all these "emotional" thieves down I say. I bet they are very "emotional" when receiving money from ads for products that none of them have developed.

@Skunkfish Then don't make the claim.

I am amazed that so many people here still think that there won't be more retro games available for Switch than the few NES games they already announced for their online subscription.
I think it is pretty obvious that more will follow.

And do some people here REALLY think Nintendo owes them anything just because they bought their games in the past?
That is ridiculous.
Don't even start with the "supported" reasoning, you bought games and systems to play them, not because you wanted to invest in the company or wanted to donate them anything. You payed to get something and you got it, Nintendo owes you nothing.

But it is like always, if Nintendo doesn't do something 99.9% of all companys on this planet aren't doing either, then Nintendo is horrible.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to call Microsoft to ask where all the goodies are they owe me, since I have been using Windows all my life...

@Donutman I don’t have emulators or ever had any interest in them. Yes you do.

It’s a shame, but it’s ultimately up to the creator on what happens to that. No it isn't, ROMS exist. Nintendo would like the kind of control you describe but they don't have it. When you release something to the world, you lose some control over it.
countless VC games that I got for free through old club Nintendo, that I can still play at any moment

I told you that you had emulators and an interest in using them.

I also think Nintendo will start the first “Netflix” of gaming for its retro stuff.

Have you heard of the Xbox Gamepass?

@Cosats when receiving money from ads for products that none of them has developed.
I think I should be getting paid for my posts on forums that get money from ads.

@Crono1973 That wasn't a claim, it was a question. What does it do to the value of their back catalogue?

You then followed up with a question, I said I don't know the answer (hence why I asked the question).

@GrailUK you'd be surprised, I know quite a lot of people (including this idiot) who did and the hack is very popular. Having a proper SNES controller to play them is pretty cool and of course the ease of use and convenience.

Having said all this I'm one of those weirdos who also has most of the cartridges sat on a shelf whilst I use the emulators, although I flat out refuse to use save states, I'm not a complete monster 😀

@Amsterdamsters Never said that, just saying what people argue is asinine. And besides, I highly doubt they are losing much money seeing as what maybe <1% of people actually pirate older games? Man, there are lot of bootlickers on here.

Illegalities have never stopped people before.

@Crono1973 Anyway, back on subject. If taking down these ROM sites is the wrong thing to do from Nintendo, what should they be doing?

What surprises me more is the fact that Nintendo hasn’t done anything like this sooner, they haven’t done anything about emuparadise and they’ve been going for absolutely ages ! Perhaps this new Nintendo has a lot more to share in the future with its back catalogue and perhaps thats why it’s finally taking action ? We can hope I guess

@Skunkfish Providing easier access and avenues for legal purchasing.

@Skunkfish Fair enough. I say that their back catalog has not been harmed by 20+ years of ROMS on the internet for free.

They sold NES games for $5, SNES games for $8 and so on for 3 consoles. The mini consoles fly off the shelves and get sold on ebay more than retail price.

Anyway, back on subject. If taking down these ROM sites is the wrong thing to do from Nintendo, what should they be doing?

Giving us a VC on Switch. Creating a GOG-like service on PC for their ROMS and/or be less vague about what retro games will be coming to their new rental service.

@Crono1973 @mikegamer So they should continue to allow them to be downloaded for free, whilst at the same time putting time and effort into making them available for purchase?

Why bother when people can download them for free?

@Skunkfish Why bother selling the mini consoles when there are free ROMS on the internet?

@carlos82 "Scorpio, you're totally mad."

Hehe. So, out of all the games you have emulated, which game would you like to see the most on Switch. The one you would genuinely play if it came to Switch.

@lemonjellydude From what I read, Nintendo issued a cease and desist to emuparadise last year, at which point they removed their first-party Nintendo ROMs.

I don't believe Nintendo has taken any action against them since, they're just worried because of Nintendo's litigation against the other ROM sites (who presumably ignored their cease and desist notices).

@Crono1973 I suspect they saw that as adding value to the games, by bundling them into a desirable product.

For me, it was as much about the nice form factor as the games on it I expect they did better out of it than another VC relaunch...

@Skunkfish My point is, their back catalog still flies off the shelves and ROMS have been free on the internet for atleast 20 years.

This is a tough one, especially for Nintendo fans more so than other platforms. Reason? Nintendo's ONLY business is gaming. Sure they sell a lot of toys, merch and clothing etc, but without their gaming business, none of that would exist since it's all gaming-related. So I think most Nintendo fans can understand Nintendo protecting their legacy so-to-speak or taking piracy far more seriously than their competitors who also sell TV's, speakers, operating systems and overpriced office software to help bolster their bottom lines.

But...IF Nintendo cannot come up with a way for consumers to purchase and enjoy these classics legally, what else are people supposed to do? The retro gaming scene is HUGE these days and as such retro game cartridge/disc prices have gone up astronomically. It's getting rarer and rarer to go to some flee market or garage sale and actually find retro games for a fair price. Pretty much everyone's in on the gig now and there aren't nearly as many unknowledgeable sellers of this stuff out there anymore so retro game and console collecting, especially with eBay prices is just out of reach for most people's budgets.

Also, even IF Nintendo creates a new Virtual Console (which I know they've said they aren't), there's still issues with licensing with a LOT of old games making it almost impossible for some of them to ever see the light of day again...at least legally that is.

@Crono1973 And it will continue to do so, and Nintendo will continue to fight parties who are offering their same products for nothing. C'est la vie.

@carlos82 Still available to buy though.

@ryancraddock Yet, they can't stop mass production of SX hardware?

@GrailUK that's a tough one, to be fair I'd probably buy quite a lot of them again on Switch but as recently I've been playing a lot of GameCube stuff I'd say Eternal Darkness or for the SNES it'd be Castlevania IV or Demons Crest. There's probably about 20 GameCube games I'd buy on Switch though if Nintendo want my money

@carlos82 I suspect one of the problems with Gamecube games on Switch, is that the Switch may not be powerful enough to emulate the Gamecube

@Amsterdamsters enjoy your limited selection then.

@carlos82 I have been snatching up my favorite NES and SNES RPG's on ebay lately. I have also been buying cases for them and also replacing the save batteries in them. When I do play on an emulator, I also don't use save states unless something comes up and I have to stop playing without a save point nearby. In that case, it works like a quicksave on GBA games.

For the more expensive SNES games, I don't mind buying reproduction carts. I want to have a working copy on my shelf and I want to play that working copy now and in the future. It doesn't matter to me if my copy of Chrono Trigger was made in 1995 or 2018 as long as it works as it should.

@carlos82 Well I reckon there is a very good chance of seeing some of those. Mind you, I also think there is a good chance we see Katamari Damacy after a marketing director and tech manager from Namco replied to me with a wink and a nod lol.

@Skunkfish What was the problem with Gamecube games on the Wii U? Apparently they ran natively.

@Skunkfish the Nvidia Shield (which is basically a Switch) already has Wii games on it at 1080p and the Wii was virtually the same as the Gamecube so it shouldn't be too difficult for it

Still plenty of places to get these from, try a torrent site. Just grab yourself a Goodset and you're right to go.

emulation will still exist regardless of the futile attempt Nintendo makes, i mean they don't even have the entire nes,snes,n64 catalog etc on the switch so they better put them all out asap

@Kirgo I have never payed for Windows on any PC platform and they are not hurting for money. I think all of this talk is pointless because people like me will still buy games that I already own that I also have all the roms of as well and understand why having all of these old games is important. Not only for preservation but for game design in general.

@GrailUK haha inside info? well there was a rumour that Smash Bros Melee and Mario Sunshine had been seen running on the Switch, I doubt the former will appear now but perhaps these will come to the subscription service.

The irony of all this is that I can actually buy some NES, SNES and N64 games on my Xbox One X and Megaman aside can't do the same for the Nintendo Switch.

Oh and I'd definitely buy Super Monkey Ball 1 and 2

@carlos82 Nvidia Shield's CPU is clocked at ~1.9GHz, Switch's at only ~1GHz. The bottleneck in the emulation would be the CPU emulation which is very CPU intensive (GPU is less intensive, as it would wrap graphic calls to the Switch GPU with not a huge CPU overhead).

There were some slight frame drops on the Shield emulation, if as I suspect this is due to a CPU bottleneck, this would be significantly worse on Switch.

@Crono1973 I've been steadily rebuilding my collection, the annoying thing being I used to own most of them and the younger me wasn't bothered about keeping them, my N64 collection is probably my best at the moment

@Crono1973 Nothing from a hardware point of view, except for the Wii U not supporting the Gamecube disc size! (obviously wouldn't affect downloads)

I wish they had supported the Gamecube I guess the controller differences would also have been a consideration....

@Jokerwolf "I think all of this talk is pointless because people like me will still buy games that I already own that I also have all the roms of as well"

I suspect there are fewer like you than you believe!

@Skunkfish Nintendo CHOSE not to allow Gamecube games on the Wii U. When Nintendo refuses to do something, it isn't always a hardware issue, sometimes it just Nintendo being stubborn. The Wii U even supported Gamecube controllers with the adapter that Nintendo released.

I suspect there are fewer like you than you believe!

Not in my experience. People may complain about buying the same game on VC 3 times but they still do it. The mini consoles are not flying off the shelf because of non Nintendo fans. It's Nintendo fans largely snatching them up.

@Crono1973 Yes, I agree - Nintendo chose not support Gamecube games. A bad decision!

EDIT: Although I think the reason they dropped physical support is due to the cost difference in the drive for supporting the smaller disc format (very few slot loading blu-ray drives support that size, if any did in 2012).

I suspect they gave some consideration to making Gamecube games available for download but decided against it for whatever reason...

@carlos82 Mate, I'll change my avatar if Monkeyball appears

@Crono1973 There are very few games I've bought twice, in fact I hardly bought any VC games because I'd played them all in emulators back in the late 90s...

@Skunkfish Let me count the times I have bought Breath of Fire II (for example).

1) Super Nintendo (90's)
2) GBA (At launch)
3) Wii Virtual Console
4) Wii U Virtual Console
5) 3DS Virtual Console
6) Super Nintendo (2018, I sold my old one long ago)

Having free ROMS hasn't stopped me. Having free ROMS has allowed me to avoid some stinkers on the VC by letting me demo them first.

Lmao people, seriously?? How can anyone have the right to complain about a company saying we don't want our stuff given away for free! The argument that "these games wouldn't otherwise see the light of day" holds no ground. If they one day decided 20 years from now, then people would already have their games downloaded and they'd make no money. The websites do NOT own the rights to the games, it's simple as that, yet they make money off of giving them away.

@prince-jay If they one day decided 20 years from now, then people would already have their games downloaded and they'd make no money.

20 years ago I downloaded Breath of Fire II (and Super Mario World, etc..). I still bought them many times over. In fact, Nintendo themselves have sold us the same game over and over again because they know we buy them.

@Crono1973 While that's admirable (I think?), you will find that for the majority of people, if something is available for free then they won't pay for it.

@Skunkfish Prove it.

A really bad analogy I can think of is tap water.

People won't pay for tap water (old games), when they can get it for free out of the tap (ROM sites).

They may pay for bottled water (ROMs bundled in a SNES Mini console), but only because they think they're getting something superior.

I did say it was a bad analogy!

@Skunkfish Tap water isn't free, it's just cheaper.

@Skunkfish Whilst you're right about the clock speeds, you need to take into account that it's running on Android and that takes up a significant portion of the resources. In fact Digital Foundry seem pretty confident the Switch could match or outperform it even with lower clock speeds due to the much leaner OS, whilst it's also running the games at 3x the original resolution so there is some wiggle room particularly with the 720p screen

@Crono1973 Hence my bad analogy comment above! And drinking tap water isn't theft

@carlos82 I hope so, I never owned a Gamecube so there are undoubtedly some classics I've never had the chance to play! fingers crossed

Yeap Emuparadise had removed all the Nintendo related roms from their website. There are still some that show but can't be download.

@Jokerwolf

"I think all of this talk is pointless because people like me will still buy games that I already own that I also have all the roms of as well and understand why having all of these old games is important. Not only for preservation but for game design in general."

Explain how it is important for game design in general? Are you a game programmer? Tell me why keeping these roms are so important to the future generations that the people and companies who created these games should not be allowed to try and reclaim them and stop people stealing them for free.

@Skunkfish Most people don't collect rainwater even though it's free.

@Skunkfish it wasn't a huge library but there are a few gems in there

@EightBitMan So, you’ve been around since 1885? You’re old dude

LOL
I'm the 250th here.

@Amsterdamsters What if I can't buy a game? I recently decided to look for roms for Fire Emblem: Geneology of the Holy War because the introduction of characters from those games in Heroes got me curious about the game.

So, as an English speaking player, how am I supposed to "buy" the game? I could get it in Japanese, but it would be worthless to me since I can't read, write, or speak Japanese.

I would gladly buy a Nintendo translated version if they would put the game out, but they don't see to be in any rush.

What about games like Mother 3 which Nintendo has also refused to translate despite massive fan demand?

People seem to think that everyone who uses roms are dirty jackasses who can't be bothered to play 5 bucks to buy Super Mario Bros.

But Roms go a long way to not only helping preserve the games from the past, but allow fans to play games that may have never been officially translated in the language.

Plus, Nintendo's war on rom sites really does nothing in the long term. All its done is scare Emuparadise into removing a few roms that might offend Nintendo. They still offer roms from Atari, Sega, Sony, and other platforms Nintendo can't control.

So, all Nintendo really did was scare these sites into removing Super Mario Bros and Nintendo published roms from these sites. Nothing has changed otherwise.

Besides making it harder for fans of franchises like Mother and Fire Emblem to play games that never arrived in their regions.

Plus, I'm going to outright say it. It's an asshole move for any company to cry foul over copyright infringement with games if they can't be bothered to offer the games for play on modern systems.

I said this before in another comment I wrote. I can find pretty much any movie I want to watch on a digital store or Netflix and other services going all the way back to the silent era to modern day blockbusters.

Same goes for TV shows, books, even comic books.

Why can't I access video games as easily with no hassle?

@Caryslan
LOL
Mind your language, please...

@Caryslan As far as I can see, Emuparadise has removed ALL roms. I just tried a few TG-16 links for 'research purposes' and they're no longer available when you attempt to download.

The entitlement is strong with this comments section. Neither Nintendo or any company owe us a damn thing. They made a product, it went out of sale. Every product in the world has had that happen. If you want it, you have to buy it. Sometimes that means you are going to have to pay more than the original price, like the person crying over Lufia 2. You can buy Lufia 2 but it will cost you double the original price.

@Caryslan "I can find pretty much any movie I want to watch on a digital store or Netflix and other services going all the way back to the silent era to modern day blockbusters."

You do realize that digital stores and Netflix pay for the rights to show those movies right?

As for your examples of Fire Emblem and Mother 3, boo hoo. They only released in Japan. Get over it. Learning Japanese is an option that is available to you. You can even do it for free in some places.

@Caryslan Plus, I'm going to outright say it. It's a <bad> move for any company to cry foul over copyright infringement with games if they can't be bothered to offer the games for play on modern systems.

Agreed!

@SBandy I think he's trying to say that game designers can learn a lot from the games of yesteryear, and the only way to experience many of these is through piracy as they're no longer easily available.

It's a good point, but makes it no less illegal...

@Crono1973

May be a bad move but it is their roght because they own the bloody thing. You have no repsect for the people who created the games you profess to love and cherish so why should they care for you?!

It is all flimsy excuses to get stuff for free.

@Skunkfish It's a good point, but makes it no less illegal...

Let me ask you something. If game companies could make reselling of video games illegal, do you think they would do it?

If they have time to sue people, they have time to actually release these games on Switch. Nintendo is ridiculous.

@Skunkfish

I appreciate you playing devil's advocate but it is a flimsy reason at best. Good game design does not rely on roms of old games.

So many people with no repsect for the industry they claim to love.

@SBandy I have bought every game I wanted on the VC over and over again. I have bought an SNES Classic. You don't know what you are talking about.

@Crono1973

I don't believe you. It is always the go to excuse.

@Crono1973 Yes, I think so! There have been some half-hearted efforts in that direction already, but I suspect it won't happen without a change in the law. I think it succeeded as far as physical PC games are concerned.

@Skunkfish all my friends have the same opinions on this, but we love art even though that art form is also interactive in life changing ways, every game inspires us to come up with new ideas and approach things in different ways just like any art. Video games are meant to be experienced just as is a painting or a scuplture. Losing art to the ages is a shame, but more so of a shame that all of these games are not public domain by now to help preserve them. Hopefully some day they will all become public domain like all great works of art which are available to all at no cost.

@Jokerwolf

Ah, so everyone can just take the Mona Lisa home with them for free and admire it to their hearts consent!? What a rubbish argument haha.

@subpopz

But they own it, it is their right.

@Skunkfish I think so too and that is where 'it's illegal' falls apart. Consumers don't get the kind of legal representation that large corporations get. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it should be. If game companies eventually kill second hand sales, most people will ignore that law too.

@SBandy Yes you can have an exact scan of it for free and you can print it yourself, or you can even recreate it youself if you want to try painting it.

@Crono1973 I suspect it will be achieved with DRM before any change in the law comes about.

Or, we'll see the death of physical releases altogether.

@Jokerwolf But Mona Lisa is long out of copyright and da Vinci is long dead. If people were giving away identical copies of his paintings while he was alive and trying to sell paintings I'm sure he would have been peeved!

@Skunkfish Oh yeah I mean for current retro games. Them going after ROM sites is not much different than them going after ebayers selling Super Nintendo games. After all, they make nothing from either of those and those are potential competition.

@Trikeboy So, let me see if I understand your argument. My option(and the option of many other fans) is to learn Japanse and if we're not cool with that, then we can just stick it?

How about Nintendo give us a legal avenue to play these games? If you're promoting Geneology of the Holy War banners in Fire Emblem heroes, then maybe people will become curious as to who Sigurd is and want to play the game he appears in.

Why not put a small team on translating the game and put it out on the Switch? You know what I love about Sega? Despite their faults as a company since they left hardware, they still know how to make fans happy.

They translated Monster World IV despite that being a much smaller franchise with less of a cult following then either Fire Emblem or Mother.

But let's take Mother 3 as an example. I understand their argument as to why Mother 3 was never translated into English when it first came out. The GBA was pretty much a dead system, and Mother 3 was a sequel to Earthbound, a game that crashed and burned in the west.

Over a decade later, things have changed. Earthbound has enjoyed popularity that it never saw in its original release on the SNES, and both Ness and Lucas have become established fighters in Smash Bros.

You have fans who have been begging Nintendo for an official translation of the game. Can you blame fans for becoming frustrated and looking for other options to play the game when Nintendo ignores them?

People can stand on the moral high ground all they want, and I agree that if you can legally buy a game then you should not download a rom for it. Super Mario Bros can be bought on the Wii U and 3DS eshop and can be found on the NES classic. So, downloading it is stealing it.

But if a game is not offered for sale or never came out in your region in the first place, how if it theft if a fan truly desires to play that game? What recourse do they have if the game can't be legally bought?

Is it our fault Nintendo is so damn stubborn?

By the way, telling fans to go learn another language to play a game or they can stick it is insulting. Not everyone has time to sit around learning a second language to play a game, and Japanese(and people can correct me if I'm wrong) is one of the most complex and difficult languages to learn.

Why should I have to go to school to play a damn game? I speak English, and I want to play my games in the language I have known how to write and speak since I was a child. Is that too much to ask for?

@Crono1973 Oh, thought you meant new games. I don't think they would for retro games. Having those games looking expensive in the marketplace probably helps them to justify charging extortionate prices when they do get re-released!

@Skunkfish There are works of art far newer that are public domain.

@Caryslan You could argue that the fan-translation of Mother 3 (although well intentioned) may have destroyed any chance of an official translation.

Most people who REALLY wanted to play in English have had the chance to for a decade.... How many willing punters are left? (probably enough, but you can understand Nintendo's doubts).

@Jokerwolf @subpopz

Digital picture is fine, but no one is satisfied by that which is why they make the effort, at cost, to see the real thing and respect the person responsible. It is a krap argument.

JOKERwolf (appropriate name), go ahead and re-programme these games then as the art is oh so important to you and your "friends".

Why are so many people trying to justify stealing?!

@Jokerwolf And there are games far newer that are public domain or freeware. And there are games that aren't, that you have to pay for.

@Skunkfish People have been able to play Super Mario Bros. for 33 years, doesn't stop them from releasing it again.

There needs to be copyright expiry on old games just like books. That's what this boils down to.

Plus some of the best games on most platforms, even Nintendo, are third party titles and most of those are now defunct or have not re-released games since their initial release decades ago. Ad revenue for rom sites is one issue, but these companies are not missing out, their old games are effectively abandonwares.

Nintendo is only doing this as it does every couple of years to be able to claim in court that they have protected and defended their intellectual property, which in any other industry would have lapsed in copyright protection by now.

@Crono1973 And they'll no doubt release it again and again when the time suits, because it's easy for them to do so and people will buy it.

Mother 3 is a niche title, that had no English translation been done previously would probably sell pretty well. I think it would still sell pretty well, but you could understand Nintendo's doubts. And I don't think translating these games is straight forward (you could argue it's been done already, but I don't think Nintendo would use the fan translation, it's like losing their moral high ground)

@SBandy Why are so many people trying to justify stealing?!

It's copyright infringement, not stealing. Stealing is when you come to my house and take my Breath of Fire II cartridge, now I no longer have it.

@bolt05 I think the copyrights will expire, 95 years after publication!

@Crono1973

So it is OK then?

@Crono1973 What about stealing someones ideas? They still have those ideas...

@Tasuki Gee with all the ROM sites shutting down what will Nintendo Life talk about?

Indie games coming to Switch in a year or two.

@SBandy I just want you to call it what it is. As for it being ok, yes if Nintendo (or SE, Capcom, etc..) doesn't make it available to buy legally.

@mikegamer
namaste

If you managed to download some roms, hold on to those babies! They could be harder and harder to get. Personally, I'm glad I modded my NES and SNES classic mini with more roms when I did. It seems like that will be less likely to happen now. I was able to get about 70 on the NES and 30 on the SNES. Makes the systems more enjoyable.

@aznable Um, what?
@Crono1973 Exactly, it's more akin to me renting a library book, copying it 100%, then returning it. I didn't steal it, I only made an unauthorized copy.

Better example, renting a movie from RedBox, copying the Blu-ray or DVD to my hard drive, then returning the disc; again, I didn't steal it, just copied it. That's pretty much piracy.

Does the fact that TV shows and movies are available to buy, stream or rent mean that there's no piracy of said TV shows and movies?

Could Nintendo stop piracy of their old games dead in its tracks by releasing all their old games to buy on VC? Did the games available on VC on Wii stop being downloaded illegally?

@Crono1973

No it is not OK, what other crimes are OK for you?! They made the games, they have the right. You have no right to steal their content. But of course you have already bought the games over and over so why do you even care?

@SBandy Here we go again, it's not stealing, it's copyright infringement.

Hmmm... if I become the victim of identity theft, where someone has stolen my identity, does that mean I have no identity?

And yes, copyright infringement is not really 'theft' or 'stealing', but that doesn't stop people terming it as such - hence the organisations in the UK; FACT (Federation Against Copyright Theft) and FAST (Federation Against Software Theft)

@Skunkfish Hmmm... if I become the victim of identity theft, where someone has stolen my identity, does that mean I have no identity?

Downloading a copy of Super Mario World does not mean Nintendo loses the copyright and they also don't lose their copy of the game.

You guys still haven't shown how ROMS on the internet have harmed Nintendo.

@Crono1973

So sorry, I meant you have no right to illegally copy their content, or is the fact that the content creator decides that they want to hold off re-selling it enough for you to break the law?!

Especially when you "have bought every game I wanted on the VC over and over again. I have bought an SNES Classic."

For info, I have bought many VC games on Wii and Wii U and also have a SNES Classic, I still dont feel the need to defend scum who infringe copyrights because they want stuff for free.

Hmm, People who get things for free illegally? Could that be considered stealing in laymans terms?!

@SBandy I have used ROMS as demos to help me determine if a VC game is worth buying. If I buy it, I play the purchased ROM and if I don't buy it, it's because I don't want to play it at all. Most recently I bought the Game Gear Shining Force game on the 3DS.

I have also used ROMS to determine if I want to purchase the cartridge of a retro game. ROMS are also helpful for people doing reviews of retro games. Some people have said in this thread that they prefer to play on an emulator even though they have the real cartridge due to convenience.

I also firmly believe that the VC wouldn't even exist if consumers had never ripped games and made emulators. Some of my ROMS have dates as early as 1996. I believe they showed the potential of emulators and ROMS to Nintendo. Do you think that Napster changed music purchases for the better?

@Crono1973 I mean illegal ones, ones that I downloaded off the internet. And I have never heard of gamepass as I have never and will never own an Xbox___.

Guess I need to download all the games I want on the 64 classic.

@Donutman And I have never heard of gamepass as I have never and will never own an Xbox__

You have obviously heard of it.

@Crono1973 Are you saying that it doesn't, or has no potential to damage sales?

Because that's what Nintendo are protecting here, the bottom line.

You could argue that many of the games are no longer and will not be available again. But if all of those old games are deemed worthless, does that increase or decrease the perceived value of their new games?

If they made Mario Karts 1-7 are available for free, would people be happy paying $50 for 8?

And don't forget, Nintendo are well aware that the only resource scarcer that players money is players time. If people are enjoying full access to their entire back catalogue, where is the time to be enjoying their new games?

I, like many others, can only dedicate a few hours a week to playing video games. That's one of the reasons Nintendo never swamp us with all the old titles at once, because greater revenue per minute of playing time can be derived from new, full price titles.

Hence, the trickle of VC titles, intended to supplement, not cannibalise their main revenue streams. Nintendo is all about pacing (not that it always gets this right!)

@Crono1973

It is clear now, you are full of krap. You have used all the excuses I have heard for justifying why you steal content (yes steal because you are taking something you don't own and trying to be technical about it and it just reveals how pathetic you are).

You use roms as demos?! Bollocks.
You use roms to determine if you want to buy a cartridge? I though the main argument was it isn't illegal because "I already own the cartridge" ergo scum move.
People use roms to review games? They can't count as they aren't the real thing then or reliable reviews.
Convenience? Jog on.
Roms have made Nintendo more aware? Praise Jeebus all these cheap scumbags have made Nintendo aware of the worth of their products.

To sum up: You are a joke.

@Skunkfish Are you saying that it doesn't, or has no potential to damage sales?

I see that their back catalog continues to sell and ROMS have been on the internet for over 20 years. How long should we wait to see if ROMS are harming Nintendo's back catalog?

Nintendo knows their back catalog sells, they are using it to fuel their online service. Having free ROMS hasn't hurt Nintendo that you have shown.

@SBandy No, you are just blind to reality.

@Crono1973

The reality that you are a stealing scumbag?!

i propose this question to those who are choosing to attack others: as somebody who refuses to download the games that are readily available for purchase, whether via second hand or digitally, what do you propose should happen to games that were made by companies that no longer exist, a game whose copyright is owned by nobody (they do exist, believe it or not)? How about games tied to licenses of such little value to the license holder that they will never again see rerelease? How many of you have illegally downloaded music, over the past twenty years? Personally, I’ve never illegally downloaded music, but I have downloaded roms of games that I wouldn’t have had the chance to play otherwise. Was I wrong? Indeed I was. However, I guarantee that not a single one of you hasn’t skirted the law. Ever sped? Ever drove after having a couple of beers? If you’re going to preach morality, your sheets had better be spotless. That’s all I’m going to say.

@SBandy you are a stealing scumbag?!
I've had about enough of your personal attacks.

@BanjoPickles

Are you trying to justify it? Or just admit you have done it?

And how can you justify it when a company that owns the game does still exist and wants to protect their right apart from "I have broke the law, oopsie"?

@Crono1973

Call it as I see it.

@Crono1973 But would they sell more or less old titles if ROMs became completely unavailable tomorrow? You'd be a fool to say less

And let's combine the timing of that ROM removal with the launch of a new paid service featuring downloads of their old titles. Are you saying that it wouldn't be more appealing to customers if the games they were getting were ONLY available on that service?

All of the above is why ROMs are harmful to Nintendo.

And you want proof? In my teens I spent hundreds of hours playing SNES, Gameboy and N64 ROMs and didn't pay a penny for them. How did that not harm Nintendo's sales?

@SBandy

I’m not justifying a thing. Now, answer my question. You like to be the judge and the jury, then answer me this: have you ever listened to copyrighted music on YouTube? Did you illegally download music, at any point? Ever speed? Ever drive buzzed? Have you ever watched anything copyrighted for free online?

And be honest! The Holy Spirit is watching you. 😁

@BanjoPickles

Hehe, maybe! Difference is I wouldn't defend it as I know I am being scummy!

@Skunkfish I'm sorry but your anecdotal evidence isn't proof. Look at how well the mini consoles are selling. How can you say that Nintendo's back catalog has been devalued?

Nintendo taking down ROM sites is good for resellers though, if the only way to play Chrono Trigger is to buy a real cartridge, the prices for used cartridges will skyrocket.

@Crono1973 Wasn't Nintendo also caught using roms downloaded from one of the sites they took down when someone looked at the header for the SMB NES filename?

@SBandy

What’s the difference between the murderer who is remorseful and the murderer who boasts? Not a whole lot, really. The crime was still committed.

In your case, you’ve assumed a title of self-righteousness, which is every bit as bad as boasting about said scummy behavior because, had I not asked (thank you for being honest, btw) you wouldn’t have been forthcoming with your own follies.

Me, I’ve downloaded roms that I couldn’t get otherwise. As I’ve said, it’s wrong, I’m entitled to nothing, and my motives were self-serving. However, I’ve never went over three mph past the speed limit (I’m a total Granny driver), I’ve never driven drunk/buzzed (I’m not a big drinker), and I’ve never illegally downloaded a single song, or album. However, I have listened to copyrighted material on YouTube. We all have our stains.

@Crono1973

"Nintendo taking down ROM sites is good for resellers though, if the only way to play Chrono Trigger is to buy a real cartridge, the prices for used cartridges will skyrocket."

Another excuse for you to be cheap and stea......sorry "copyright infringe" then heh?!

And I agree with Nintendo. They provide a service, and if that service sucked then they wouldn’t have been in the game for as long as they have. I didn’t do them a favor by spending money on their product. I liked what they had to offer. The mentality that something is owed is what I adamantly disagree with. Now, if they shipped me a broken console, then they would owe me something. 😁

@Crono1973 “Nintendo taking down ROM sites is good for resellers though, if the only way to play Chrono Trigger is to buy a real cartridge, the prices for used cartridges will skyrocket.”
That would be great. I do want to sell some of my old nes and snes games. Good money to be made. Plus I would love people like sbandy to buy games at triple the prices they were when they released in 1984

@BanjoPickles

Your argument is flawed, remorsful and boasting is not the same as defending a crime.

Also I am not being self righteous, I just happen to believe that content creators have final say over their content and anyone who disagrees has yet to provide a real argument.

You are different as you are admitting you aren't perfect and have used alternative means to access content whether it be films, games or music but are you defending it is OK? I don't think you are.

My issue is with people trying to find any reason to justify their content stealing.

@1UP_MARIO Plus I would love people like sbandy to buy games at triple the prices they were when they released in 1984

Make sure that those people know that 0% of the huge price they paid goes to Nintendo.

@1UP_MARIO

What is your point?! You want people to buy your games at a good price because Nintendo values their content, but really you are a fan of Roms?!

@Crono1973

"Make sure that those people know that 0% of the huge price they paid goes to Nintendo."

Nintendo already made their money on those games. They don't from rom sites giving it away for nothing. Are you a bit thick?!

I have discovered way more music by downloading. If I love it I buy it on vinyl. I see nothing wrong with it. Either I download it an enjoy it, or I don't. The obsecure label either gets some money for a vinyl or they don't. No difference.

I view game piracy as wrong if its currently avaliable. Pirate a Switch game? Wrong.

However: with this scare I just downloaded every single N64 game. I never had the intention of doing so, just download the games I already own for the 64 classic, but its way easier to download all 4.5 gigs off a torrent than hunt for individual ROMs especially since Nintendo is scaring everyone. I love games. I have devoted a lot of time and money to them 15 -20 years ago, and again within the past year.

In a few months with you guys crying that the 64 classic doesn't have most of the good games, now you will know. Either do what you have to, or keep white knighting Nintendo and don't complain.

@SBandy I want Nintendo to ban roms so I can make good money from my games if I decide too. I set the price I want to profit not Nintendo. They made their money when I first bought the game

@1UP_MARIO

Why did you mention me?

@Trajan
Same here. I discovered so much of what I'm into now from doing that and it led me to supporting what is still active alongside hunting down the games that I found over the years. Nobody's going to put games like Hagane, The Guardian Legend, EVO: Search for Eden, the Godzilla fighting games on Turbo Duo and SNES, or the Far East of Eden series (outside of Japan anyways) on modern platforms and if they did, I'll happily support them unlike the swarms of plebs that will swipe past them for whatever the flavor of the month is. I'll play my roms in the meantime while I pray that the fat stack of CD cases and cartridges at every second hand shop, garage sale, and/or flea market stand isn't just a bunch of identical copies of a yearly sports game that the seller hasn't realized is worthless.

This is how gaming history dies, to the sound of thunderous applause.

You are crazy if you think Nintendo will ever make their entire backlog available in some way. Cracking down on ROMs means many games will simply disappear in time. Physical media all eventually dies, and re-releases happen for only a small percentage of games ever released.

So yes, please keep on cheering.

@SBandy I meant I wish there was more people like you who don’t mind spending a lot of money buying old games in the resale markets

@BRAINFOX Yes they were. See, the people ripping ROMS are helping Nintendo...LOL

@1UP_MARIO
I would be more wary of reproductions in that case. I remember getting a copy of EVO: Search for Eden (US version) for $8 around 10 years ago. Nowadays, that game runs about $180 in the same cartridge only condition I bought it in while an unlicensed repro can be a mere fraction of that and entice potential customers instead.

@AlphaElite This is how gaming history dies, to the sound of thunderous applause.

...but those nasty pirates are making Nintendo go bankrupt! Top Nintendo execs are on welfare because of free ROMS on the internet!

@1UP_MARIO

I never said that. I hold on to what I have already purchased it is not a hard concept.

I know you are trying to be smart and have some kind of side dig but it is pointless. If you were a gamer you wouldn't sell your old games except for an exceptional reason. And if you did sell then just got the roms off some dodgy website you are a bit of a scumbag.

@BRAINFOX exactly. People will go for the repro cart to play their game instead of 180 dollars

@Crono1973

"...but those nasty pirates are making Nintendo go bankrupt! Top Nintendo execs are on welfare because of it free ROMS on the internet!"

You have truly revealed yourself as the stealing scumbag you are. It is pretty pathetic.

This is like an author writing a book and then seeing it in the library 20 years later - and then getting on the phone with a lawyer to have it removed and sue the library because they dont own the rights to the book. Libraries are stealing copy-writed property. And anyone reading a book they didnt pay for is a self entitled criminal. And that old lady that donated the book is a filthy pirate.

@Crono1973
"evil laughter I'll drive those greedy Nintendo execs to the streets with my dastardly plan to download 3 Ninjas Kick Back for the Super Nintendo and play it on ZSNES! Then I'll really let 'em have it by downloading the European and Japanese versions and have all three running simultaneously! They'll have to beg people to buy the new Pokemon and Smash games or they'll be living on food stamps! AHAHAHA!" twirls mustache so tightly it creates a singularity

Thus already happened last year. All of the first party ROMs were removed but, slowly crept back up. I imagine the same will happen again when the hype dies down.

As I read through the comment section, it's clear as day that majority of people here apparantly 'supports' piracy seeing how they're so butthurt about this. It's a shame.

Yes we get it, it's too bad that Nintendo doesn't push VC the way they used to. But piracy is still piracy no matter how you sugarcoat rom sites. You wanna play them? You dump them yourselves even if you have to hunt down the actual carts if you're really that adamant towards 'nostalgia'.

@EightBitMan
Here's the thing; none of us, including myself, who have supported Nintendo throughout the years by buying retro games, are actually owed any further form of compensation.
Our compensation was in the many hours of joy that we got out of the games we bought.
We are NOT ENTITLED tobanything more than that, and Nintendo is not in the wrong for protecting their intellectual property.

@Syrek24
"Also, the amount of people justifying illegal actions shows how far humanity has fallen, from having some morals in place to just outright disregarding them when they are too inconvenient."

[sarcasm]Pfft yeah, it isn't murder, wars, assaults, environmental damage, corporate greed or general apathy that is bringing down humanity, it's ROMs[/sarcasm]. Not that the term humanity means anything, it's just a term people use to make them feel like they are more than an animal.

@Syrek24
"Oh for crying out loud. Let’s dispense with the dramatics, shall we? This is NOT that serious."

Pot meet kettle

@Syrek24
"the majority of games that actually matter are commercially available through Nintendo themselves or through other legal means"

Absolute heresy.

@Syrek24 at least in the minds of petty thieves and entitled children.

Why does your side love the personal attacks so much?

@Crono1973
Because piousness doesn't provide a good counterargument?

@SBandy

If it were that simple, I wouldn’t have called you self righteous. No, you’re coming from a harshly judicial place, calling people names and attacking the fabric of their character, which would only hold water if you yourself hadn’t skirted the law, as the best (and worst) of Us have. I agree with you, but I can never subscribe to black-and-white. Part of the reason why I refrain from judgment (except in cases of judging other judges) is because I myself have been guilty, as are you, as are they. My “remorseful vs. boasting” argument was sound in that you more or less state “yeah, I broke the law but I wasn’t PROUD of it.” What difference, really, does it make? If I rob a convenience store and apologize to the officer and clerk, upon being caught, it doesn’t make the crime any different than the guy who said that he was glad he did it. You’re self righteous in that you find a qualifier for your past transgressions. “Well, I may have committed a crime, but not as badly as they did.”

It’s their property to decide not ours end of story I don’t see how people can argue against that

@bignrules end of story

Obviously not.

@Syrek24
"Life goes on without many of the crusty games of old. And I do not have all my eggs in the video game basket, unlike most of you here. Life is far too precious and short to be worrying about a hobby, and a fragile one at that. I enjoy it as much as anyone else, but all this ROM defense is merely an excuse to acquit oneself from a felony, or at least in the minds of petty thieves and entitled children."
Geez. I thought the theater is saw Mission Impossible at had some IMAX projection going on. The NeoGAF attitude towards "crusty old games" only amplifies the cringe. Maybe they're old to you, but I'm still discovering some of these every day with the full intent on actually experiencing them. If nobody is going to offer me a valid way to play some of these games, then I implore whoever owns the rights to give me a way to legitimately acquire them. Until then, I have no other choice but to go the gray route if/until that time comes. My business awaits any who have the supply.

@BanjoPickles

I edited my comment to nothing because it is bed time and I am done with this. Thanks for the banter.

@subpopz Great comment.

@timson72 The sleeping bear has been poked.

@SBandy

Hey, anytime. I got the original message in my email, but it’s bedtime for me as well. Good talk. 🙂

@Skunkfish Oh? Were they going to be releasing them for legit purchases on a digital storefront? Do tell more.

@BanjoPickles

Not gonna lie, can't even remember what my original message said. If it was dickish I apologise, been a long old night and I dont consider anything you said bad in anyway, just two people arguing their cases.

Have a good one.

LOL
The funniest debates ever.

@SBandy

Not dickish at all. Direct, which is good, but not dickish. I apologize, just the same. Have a good one!

@1UP_MARIO although I actually agree with you re resellers benefitting, you should be buying the game card DS version of chrono trigger,not the snes cart the D's version is cheaper and it's the definitive version of the game. Except you can't play it on your TV.

Now I think about it, it really is a travesty this game issn't on the snes mini.

The whole argument can be boiled down to be much simpler than people actually make it. Nintendo makes a game, they own it, and can do whatever they want with it. They can sell it if they want, or not, since they own the title. It's annoying to people, but Nintendo has a right to do so.

So, yeah, Nintendo's in the right. I understand hacking if it's for games that aren't made available in the states or very old, but it's ridiculous to act like there's a major injustice here. The company didn't burn down your house, they shut down a ROM site that's illegal. Keeping old and obscure stuff available is a noble cause, but the demonization and the constant "greater good" mentality held by either side (mainly those for the ROM downloads TBH) is kind of pretentious.

I think the best debate we can have is the concern that there won't ever be another avenue for this stuff again. Really, this won't be the last place to grab stuff that's unavailable, it's just a fairly notable case. There's always going to be something willing to do this again, it's how the internet works. I get the point of reporting it, I just don't understand the response.

Some game translation patches required a specific version of a game, and I used emuparadise to get the correct ones so that's a bummer.
The 2nd miles edgeworth game that never released outside japan had an original release and 2 greatest hits rereleases and you could only patch the original due to minor version differences.

That's the main site I was hoping wouldn't go down. Some sites have roms that are too new but they were good and reliable.

It's partially because of the emulation scene that there is such demand for retro games.

@BanjoPickles The two main groups that we've got here are those who may have robbed a convenience store in the past but realise it was wrong and have changed their ways and those that continue to rob convenience stores, believing its somehow for the 'greater good' and that they're doing no harm.

@mikegamer They do through the Virtual Console though on WiiU and 3DS, NES Mini and SNES Mini. You could argue they don't have every game but a cursory glance at the download rates for a the romsites that display them(CoolRoms) shows that those sites are primarily used for downloading readily available popular games.

Nintendo games had since been taken down from that site. But take, Tekken 3. has been downloaded on Coolrom 28 million times, which is over 20 million more than its lifetime sales despite the fact it is readily available on the PS3 store and through backwards compatibility on the PS2 when it was first uploaded to the site.

Piracy has nothing to do with availability of a game on a platform, it's just "free games". So I think it's right for these sites to be taken down whether or not the games are being sold digitally or not.

Well, it would have been nice if Nintendo had a legal alternative to make up for it... but you just know that if they do VC on Switch at all, it'll just be Wrecking Crew and all the other overpriced usual suspects released on a semi-weekly basis. Sure the hardcore emulator crowd know plenty of more low-key rom hosting sites anyways.

Speaking of EmuParadise--since they do still have the domain name and all--they can now repurpose their site to become the internet's primary resource on the keeping of emus and not lose a step.

Excellent.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh7loJCdmLI

I am glad I downloaded all my roms why the get was good, except for Lunar 2 for Sega CD. I miss that game. Maybe I will just figure out torrents now.

@bolt05 I out it on my mini because everyone said it should be. Played it for 6 or 7 hours and fell in love. Then I wanted to play it portable so I bought it for DS. I had an old phat that I got for free basically 13 years ago. Shoulder buttons and screen were wack so I got a 2ds xl.

That ROM cost me a lot. Lol.

Plus I got to play Xenoblade 1.

@bolt05 Except you can't play it on your TV

Which makes it not the definitive version.

Thing is, a lot of ROM collectors (let's call them that for the purpose of this post), are not very different than many people who pride themselves on their large CD or Vinyl collection. Or movie collection.

But the main difference (problem) old games have is that contrary to all other mediums, their format is locked in time because games are mostly restricted to a single system, each one having their own format, and many (most) of them not being manufactured anymore.

You can buy a turntable from many different manufacturers nowadays, at various price points. Even cassette tape players are still made and can be bought. An album is often available on multiple type of support, from vinyl LPs to CDs. Someone collecting music can have a collection spanning DECADES, all playable, mostly, on their current device. And if it breaks in ten years, you'll be able to buy a NEW replacement easily. Or even upgrade to a better model.

The game industry, compared to other entertainment-based industries, is stupid. Its widespread business model forces the need for exclusive platforms, and discourage making anything backward compatible (you want people to buy new games, not keep playing their old ones).

Games need to start being like music, like movies. Especially since we're more and more reliant on digital downloads now. Digital downloads restricted to a single system that's going to be dated and not manufactured again in, let's say, 10 to 15 years, is bad. THIS, is what essentially pushes people to download ROMs of old games. The game industry is litterally asking people to keep all of their past consoles since forever to be able to play their old games. This is insane. You don't see Panasonic making Blu-Ray players that can't play DVDs and ask people to just keep their other player. You don't see Apple restricting acces to the music and movies you paid for to the device you bought them on, asking you to rebuy everything when you upgrade your phone or tablet.

It's time the game industry grow up, and start being content producers first and foremost, and find ways to make games like music and movies. Buying a VC game on the Wii shouldln't mean having to rebuy the same ROM to play it on a new "emulator" on the WiiU or any other platform. You bought the ROM, they should let you play it on the device you currently have. Brand restriction could still play a role (Nintendo stuff playable on Nintendo platforms), but at least, this would vastly reduce the number of people going to these ROM sites to enjoy games they usually already paid for in the past.

@Jokerwolf @1UP_MARIO @Crono1973

Hey guys. Just want to apologise for the strength of my comments last night. We don't agree on what is a pretty grey area of the industry but I shouldn't have been throwing terms around like scumbag.

I still stand by my views on this topic but apologise with my sometimes heavy handed responses. Overall it was a very good discussion/argument.

Have a good one.

@SBandy oh don’t worry about it. Enjoyed the discussions although it was a little late for me and was sleep writing. It is a grey area and I see the benefits on both sides.

I'm sure glad I already have all of the ROMs I need on my old hard drive!

@SBandy It is ok, sometimes things get heated, I too am sorry if I got overly enthusiastic about my stance!

@1UP_MARIO

Was sleep writing myself! Cheers

@SBandy Thanks for the apology, I appreciate it.

@Jokerwolf

I think the vast majority of us got overly enthusiastic but that is a good thing. Shows we have passion for videogames.

I will be trying to tone down the severity of my responses from now on though as it wasn't called for.

@Crono1973

Cheers. We are here because we love games, I will do my best to remember that better from now on.

@G-Boy Nintendo's actions may be pushing people to grab the whole collections from torrent sites.

@Crono1973 its definitely still the definitive version.

@bolt05 its definitely still the definitive version.

...because of the bonus dungeons that nobody liked much?

It would be ok for Nintendo to do this if they actually sold these games instead of renting them like Sony and Microsoft have chosen to do. It's nothing more than a service monopoly, and it forces me to run to places like GOG.com

The games are still out there, so nobody needs to worry that they won't be preserved. It's not like pirates with huge collections are suddenly going to delete them because of this. I bet you could go find a torrent right now with Nintendo's entire back catalog of games. Not that it would be legal to download them, but they are "preserved". Plus, Nintendo has them as well and will ensure that they are made available in one form or another in a way that is most profitable to them.

@HobbitGamer Companies are always looking to further limit consumer rights. The latest trend is products as services, where you trade convenience for ownership. Get access through a monthly subscription (not possible to buy individual items), which you have to keep paying perpetually to keep access. With physical objects/ hardware, they limit user rights by voiding warranty or patching. You own it, paid for it, but are not allowed to tinker. Some really neat stuff comes out of tinkering and experimentation. It took a Napster to get iTunes. Alas, we're just encouraged (coerced) to mindlessly consume, not co-create. A one way street.

Nintendo could work out a legal rom platform, but they'd rather tie you down to their overpriced hardware with overpriced peripherals, which, since the Wii, they've hardly managed to support for 4 years. At least then make your back catalogue available (at reasonable prices too). And why should I not be allowed to play to play rom versions of games I bought? Because you know, I'd rather play Goldeneye at 1080p 60fps then the crap that is N64 emulation on Wii U, charging 10€ a game (not to mention the absence of Goldeneye and Rare games in general on the Virtual Console). All of that possible due to people putting in countless hours of work without pay, doing a better job than Nintendo themselves, who instead, are always looking to wring more money out of consumers. And then people give them the finger, big surprise.

Btw, fun how Steam told me to accept their new terms or lose all my games. But we should be thankful to our company overlords, am I right?

@Crono1973 so it’s NOT their property?

@bignrules so it’s NOT their property?

It helps if you quote what I said that you are addressing.

stupid Nintendo, give us a proper option to buy them!

@Crono1973 Yes, because I liked them, and also because it blends the PS video cut scenes into the snes version of the game. Without the terrible PS loading times.

@bolt05 ...but on a much smaller screen only. Now given what DS games look like on the Wii U, I am betting that the SNES version still looks better on a TV than the DS version does. They likely downgraded the graphics and resolution for the DS version.

I certainly need no intro to these romsets. I just hope there's an archive organization always around so we'll never lose access to such wonderful NES, SNES, Game Boy, GBA, and other wonderful classic games that some are nigh-on impossible to buy these days.

@Braneman I think the best way to handle the public domain issue is to make an exception for copywrites and trademarks that are still in active use. That way, Mickey Mouse will always stay out of the public domain as long as the Disney corporation exists and continues to sell Mickey products, Nintendo can continue to sell their old games and sue anyone who tries to distribute them for free, but any games or properties that are old enough and have been completely abandoned for so many years (or possibly combined multiple periods of inactivity) become part of the public domain.

This would be especially helpful for games where it's practically impossible for a re-release to occur, either because the original rights holders went under and dragged it down with them into legal limbo, because the rights are split up between now opposing companies (like most of the N64 Rare games), or because the rights are split up in such a convoluted way that nobody understands which parts anyone owns anymore.

In the meantime, don't forget that you can still purchase many of these old games in used game shops or online auction sites. Sure, some may be really expensive and ultimately out of your budget, but that's just the free enterprise system at work, so deal with it.