Cosmic Star Heroine Dev Explains Its "Frustrating" Experience Working With Nintendo

I'll be interested to see how other people react to these comments. Boyd comes across a little whiny to me. I'm not sure that Nintendo tweets out every game that is released by Indie developers and I don't think they give everyone the gold star treatment. I'm not sure that's even possible with a few dozen games launching almost weekly now. I'm sorry to hear things didn't work out for him but it would seem this is the minority opinion and most developers are "feeling the love from Nintendo"

Interesting article to write the day after a Nindies presentation. Seems like Nintendolife had this one in the pocket ready to go.

Interestingly, I found this post from Nintendolife earlier in the summer.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/07/cosmic_star_heroine_brings_2d_rpg_action_to_switch_next_month

It's by the same author. It would appear the game had a commercial so there seems to be some support for it. Perhaps this author has a personal connection to this development company and he is helping them vent frustration publicly.

And Nintendo keeps saying they love to support indies.

Meanwhile games like Vroom in the Sky get easily on the eShop

"We got an okay number of reviews" So let me see, they wanted free publicity in nintendo's channels, while they knows the quality of this game is not the best? It's obvious the nintendo wants to sell there attention with the best games

This kinda thing happens when you want 30 new games to your online store every week.

@Rayquaza2510 Vroom only enter because there wasn't many games at eshop. (At least I hope so)

I know of the game but it just doesn't top my list of current games to get. It does look good but on a sale much further down the road.

Translation: "I'm blaming Nintendo for us not selling our actually pretty mediocre title."
I played it on the PS4. Its not that great. Its ok, just not anything special. I miss Zeboyd's beginnings with the hilarious Breath of Death VII. There was love put into that title!
As for Nintendo. Its not their fault. Yes they didn't promote it, but you yourself really have to do some promotion yourself and Nintendo does promote lots of indie titles.

@Nintendofan83 Gonna agree with you here. He makes it seem like this is a Nintendo only thing which I highly doubt. No company gives full exposure to all of it's indie titles and to expect that is kind of odd. There are a crap ton of indie games I have for switch that were never shown in any kind of direct or given a tweet since the launch of the system.

I remember they did get a ps blog post about their game from Sony. I'm guessing they are upset they didn't get the same treatment from Nintendo. Bottom line is none of the big 3 gives equal attention to every single one of it's hundreds of indie games. Sorry?

They announced a physical before release. I would bet money many are waiting for that! (Including myself - and I'm not unique!)

@teixeiras There's a difference between "getting an okay number of reviews" and being poorly reviewed.

The Switch version of this game is currently a 78 on Metacritic; not shabby. http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/cosmic-star-heroine

I think the creator is pointing more toward the fact that there are only 8 reviews for this title on Metacritic right now. That's not great exposure.

@teixeiras there are more games like that, that did came on the eShop even this year.

I mean it's one of 100s of me games they are making store pages for , it sounds like their troubles are not a common experience. Because Nintendo gives some games visibility , doesnt mean their game is entitled to it. I get they are frustrated but some of that is misplaced and whining is definitely not gonna get me to buy their game. Market your game, make it stand, put it on sale. Don't blame Nintendo for not marketing your game for you

@Frendo To be fair, this game did get an e3 trailer from Sony. Not during the conference though, it was uploaded to YouTube.

This is such a weird situation. There's a bit more to this than we can see, naturally. On one hand, we just got two indie presentations full of awesome new games. Then you have these guys not getting any support at all. A short trailer during one of these presentations would've made them a bit happier. Heck, even a retweet like they suggested would've been okay.

I’m looking at this article as their “press” on the game. I’m saying that in a good way of course — I kind of want to go support them now and get this game. Don’t get me wrong... I’ve had my eyes on this anyway as it really looks like a great adventure to get involved in but with eh sheer amount of other RPGs and titles... woooooo

You can't expect nintendo to highlight every indie game. You need to market the game yourself as a developer. A supermarket isn't going to promote every product that they sell.

I have this on my radar but I've been feeling overwhelmed almost every week with games. I haven't even touched Octopath as I using what little free time I had with Hollow Knight.

Nintendo Defense League out in full force today. I highly doubt this is an isolated incident and it's great that some of the smaller guys are speaking up. Nintendo not even getting the eShop up to date before launch with a trailer is truly pathetic.

While those of us waiting for physical will have an imact, I think it's safe to say that the hypothetical people who weren't reached by non-existent marketing are not in that group. I also have no clue how large the dedicated userbase checking the eShop regularly as I do is. In any case, the game is probably STILL better off than on Steam. If it wanted super coverage, the key seems to be exclusive content.

As a business owner it's not Nintendo's responsibility to promote your game. It's yours.

Dude comes across as incredibly unprofessional complaining about this in public. Any chance his future games will be promoted by Nintendo just went out the window.

I can understand the frustration.

Nintendo are back in a position where they can (through non-communication) demand from smaller indies that they team up with a publisher.

However, this really is preferable in certain regards. Many garage devs bought Wii U kits at somewhat high prices just to realize that they did not have the expertise for console development in general, for proper self publishing or marketing of a game, or in quite many cases for actually finishing at game at all. Which really is a skill unto itself.

When the official Nintendo-operated tech support and sharing forum for indie developers on Wii U was finally closed (on somewhat short notice) many were still doing show-and-tell on great looking projects, that they just never quite found a way to tie the bow on.

In spite of this, when allowing indies to self-publish, the The Wii U was still quickly becoming host to quite many games from developers who were... less critical with their output.

I kind of went off on a tangent here from Zeboyd's situation, but they really do need to go through their contacts to be included in indie sizzle reels or similar aggregated shout-outs, rather than expect the Twitter account manager (for instance) to take notice of them. Nintendo's simply too busy with all the popularity they're experiencing right now.

I’m sure Nintendo isn’t the easiest to work worth compared to Sony or MS, but this sounds a little bit like “sour grapes”.

I dunno what better exposure would have done. I knew this game was coming, and there were more than enough reviews out there to get a sense of it. Their trailer isn't great, frankly, and the art direction of the character designs are a bit amateur looking. (Not that I can do better, mind you.) I can see why a lot of people would stay away.

I actually bought this game, but I struggled for a while against my gut feeling that it was going to be meh. So far it's just been fine. It's Chrono Trigger lite with a cyberpunk spin (cool in theory), but the story is as cookie cutter as it gets, the dialogue one dimensional, and the battle system is unblanced. I'm enjoying it for its Sega CD retro feel, but I'm not sure if I can recommend it in good faith.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo chose to focus their not unlimited resources elsewhere because they knew it wasn't likely to hit. I'm sorry for him and his team because they tried hard, but sometimes failure isn't anyone else's fault.

@singingbrakeman I'm not a journalist and this is an internet forum haha. This is exactly the type of place you throw out ideas to spark conversation. I'm not saying that he is in fact doing this, I'm just saying that the majority of press this game has received on this site is by the same author and it seems like this article was something made in advance to throw some shade Nintendo's way right after they promote other games. The timing of the article is what makes me pause.

@TimLatshaw There's a crapton of games that have much less reviews than even that, and get zero exposure. I'm not doubting that a lot of those are from poor quality, but I'm sure tons of hidden gems have been missed over because of review numbers.

Eight is a good enough amount for a indie game. Not many websites are like NintendoLife and has time to review a lot of nindies.

So, why are they complaining? Because Nintendo themselves aren't marketing their game. As someone who is going into the publishing business, EVERY market is like that. Market your own damn product, it is no one else's responsibility.

It's not that with an updated and better eShop UI you'd get Cosmic Star Heroine in your face every time you get there.

This is when you go on sale or post in your news channel (did Nintendo refuse to give them a channel in the news section?)

I just read this on Gonintendo, they also say the Switch version sold 2/3rds of the PS4 one, which is fine I think, considering there are 80 millions PS4 and 20 millions Switch in the world currently. So this should've been 25% of PS4 sales, 66% is good.

As for me, I was on the fence and almost bought this game when it released, but the review from this very site kept me away from it. I'm enjoying Octopath so I should be fine with CSH? Mhhh I highly doubt

The game was on the 'coming soon' page for weeks, and I seem to remember the preorder discount being pretty obvious. Maybe I just eyeball the eshop more than most, but it was certainly visible.

@Rayquaza2510 What?

cry baby

@Nintendofan83 agreed, somebody get that man some tissues

@Stu13 yes, maybe the pre-order discount came later. I remember not finding the trailer, though. This is a shame, actually

But again, I doubt they "bombed" because of that.

And yeah, there are 20 releases per week, but things are even worse on other platforms. Probably they should have promoted the game themselves and with some exclusive content, especially this being a 2 years old port

Make an exceptional game and then you may not need Nintendo to push it. Perhaps that'll even make them want to.

Yeah, this is a bit unfair. Cosmic Star Heroine IS a good game, but it's one of MANY good games on Switch, many of which didn't get promoted by Nintendo. It's a port of a very traditional game that got okay reviews. Nintendo is going to focus on pimping out exclusives, new games, or proven hits. I hope that Cosmic Star Heroine does better (I'm sure it will once Limited Run inevitably does physical copies), but there are over 1000 Switch games and Nintendo can't promote them all.

I'm sure that people who bought Octopath Traveller have better games to play than Cosmic Star Heroine. Namely Octopath Traveller.

Also people mentioned Sony showcased the game. That might have stopped Nintendo from promoting it. I don't think the game is as much hyped as some other indie titles (even if the dev made some games before).

It’s a quality game that probably deserved special treatment, but I can’t really fault Nintendo for not giving it that. I guess they have a select few they work closely with, and the rest are on their own.

@ryancraddock Thanks for the response. Now admit you had this article ready to go after the Nindie showcase so you could highlight the good and the bad LOL =P

@Damo I thought with the Nintendo Switch logo at the beginning Nintendo was on board.

@hatch The battle system is far from derivative. It’s superficially from Chrono Trigger, but strictly turn-based with interesting synergies and Magic-esque escalation of power for every turn.

@Rayquaza2510 He blames Nintendo because he perfectly knows he can. If he blamed Sony or Microsoft his career would be over.

Look at them conspiracy theories!

*munch munch

I’m waiting for the physical release myself. There are all sorts of reasons why it didn’t get much exposure. Heck, maybe even Nintendo felt it could “compete” with Octopath? Yeah one has a much bigger budget and RRP but they have their similarities. Honestly I saw enough “advertising” online and even on the eShop.

Its physical PS4 & Vita releases were also long running knowledge so maybe this helped advertise the game more?

@Damo Interesting it’s a limited run game. No sign of a physical yet. I’m interested when there is.

Just because it’s an indie game doesn’t mean it’s good or deserving of everyone’s attention.

Okay I get he is frustrated with lack of exposure but this just comes off as highly whiny and self entitled

Wasn't aware of this game before, looks up my alley, gonna check it out now. Thanks!

Also LOL at the conspiracy theories. It's video games.

Complaining about Nintendo seems to work: it gets this article published and you guys talking about it... free publicity.

Although I was shocked to not see Nintendo post a youtube trailer or anything, I personally don't look at Nintendo's Twitter page. I found out about this game via Nintendo Switch bloggers and YouTube channels. RGT85, Switch Planet, Switch Force, Nintendo Life, Nintendo enthusiast, Beat'em, DreamcastGuy, Spawn Wave, etc. Got the game because of them and can't wait to play it after Ys VIII.

Also makes sense that Nintendo would want a Indie Dev to get a publisher for gorilla marketing purposes (youtube & bloggers). Because it seems obvious that Nintendo does not have the capacity to promote these indie games and give the attention they deserve.

@brimat I like your comment in particular because it's sound advice for any dev. Overcrowded market places have been a thing for years, especially on mobile and pc. While I empathize with the dev somewhat on things like a messed up pre purchase page as well as a missing trailer I find that's where my empathy ends. Devs that expect the platform holder to do the lionshare of the promotion are living with market realities that haven't really been true for over 5+years now. Nintendo most likely will promote the games it thinks will be high sellers or already have a ton of hype for them. Expecting Nintendo, Sony, Valve, or Microsoft to promote your game for you in 2018 is very naive

It has the exact same amount of reviews (8) for the switch, ps4 and Pc version on metacritic.
Also with 10-20 indies released per week, it is natural for Nintendo to delay some game releases so they are spread over time.
Boyd's comments are very whiny and even if he's right, he sounds more like he's complaining just to have some attention

They arrived late. Last year was very lucrative for indie publishers for lack of games and the enthusiasm of Switch owners almost guaranteed good sale for every title on Switch; and of course Nintendo also promote every game back in the day because of lack of titles. But right now, especially in indie scene, we get a lot of games every week, and this is not possible for Nintendo to concern itself with all of them. Especially with a 2 years old port of an mediocre indie title that only relies on riding on the waves on nostalgia and nothing more.

Personally with eShop games going physical, I don't want to double dip. This game is getting a physical release and that's what I'm waiting on. Did the dev even consider that angle?

In the end its just business. A Mediocre indie game ( No its not triple AAA indie in my opinion ) with devs complaining about something wich is not in there control. Even then its snowed under by other 10s of indie titles popping up in the store and you as a owner can spend your money ones..So well..its pointless to complain about something that you as a indie developer has no influence on.

Wasn’t the game in a direct? I thought that was how I heard about it. The dev seems a bit petulant overall. It isn’t as if the game has been on the eshop for years and nobody has heard of it.

Edit: after re reading this article a few times and a few reviews as well as looking for tweets or some sort of marketing push from the dev and publishers themselves, I think I'm taking this off my wishlist. But I am excited to play The Messenger on friday!!!!!

Does anyone know if this is actually a good game? I've been considering it..

So...basically they wanted Nintendo to make all the marketing for them? This is very usual in a lot of other markets, they spent all of their money on other resources and they left almost none for marketing, hoping and having faith that with just spread of word it´s going to sell millions. I understand there are limited resources, not everyone can make a big campaign but you just can´t rest assured Nintendo is going to retweet your game...

What a whiny loser, and on top of that, pretty cocky and highly presumptuous as well, to insinuate that his game, which looks like something cobbled together, copy/pasted from all kinds of sources,
is even close to being as good as Octopath Traveler.

This sub-par effort couldn't even stand in the shadow of that game.
Want your game to be known? Use the internet, and your own means of spreading the news, instead of blaming Nintendo.

The work isn't done, once you've finished making your product, you need to sell it as well, and that is, for the most part, up to you and/or your publisher(s).

Well he's got his publicity now. No such thing as bad publicity.

Yeah, a mention from Nintendo could help him out with more views. But, if he's not doing much else to promote it himself, then he has no choice but to take what he gets. The PR shouldn't stop once the product releases. That'd be the same as giving up. Maybe he should leverage it's successes from the other platforms and make one of those "accolades" trailers? It couldn't hurt.

As it stands, however, there are a number of channels doing their own reviews and let's plays. So word of mouth should spread a little bit, but he really needs to do some of his own signal boosting.

That sucks, I hope their game does well. How has this game reviewed? I saw it on the eshop and I must say it really didn't look appealing. Could be entirely wrong but who knows.

I got a platinum on the PS4 version and it was a buggy mess, but a competent RPG. I don't think it reached the quality level that Nintendo usually requires to push something.

And I released stuff on Steam and still can't get an SDK...

'It's a good game and I daresay a good percent of those million+ people who bought Octopath Traveler would like our game if they knew it existed. '

No they wouldn't.

I'm sorry, but the dude sounds like a total whiner. Does he realize how many games are released, on a weekly basis, on the eshop? Nintendo has been awesome, this generation, when it comes to actively promoting indie titles. Based on what I'm hearing/reading, the game is average so why would Nintendo take the time to retweet, or mention it, when they have games like Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley, Celeste, Fortnite, Undertale, Fast Racing Neo, etc. etc. etc. to promote? They also seem to forget that indie games are just one piece of a much bigger puzzle.

Inevitable with the number of games releasing each week. Got to be outstanding (good or bad) to stand out.

And it also doesn't help that the game isn't even in the upper pantheon of quality rpg's for the console! This very average looking game has to compete with the likes of Octopath, Xenoblade 2, Romancing Saga 2, South Park: FBW, Disgaea 5, Ys VIII, West of Loathing, etc. That would be like the creator of Bubsy complaining that Nintendo didn't do enough to promote his crappy game, during the SNES era. Get real!

I hope Nintendo isn't going back to bad habits they had with Wiiu etc

His game never sold well but he wanted it to sell like octopath on switch?
What world is this guy living in?

In my experience, they best for indie games to market themselves successfully is to have an eye-catching style. The game might play good or might not, but it certainly does not look overly appealing, neither the graphics as such nor the interface. More importantly though, it simply does not stand or look unique, fresh or particulally imagineable or gorgeous in any way. Yes, all of that is superficial at the end of the day, but in a world overcrowded with content, a good "cover" can indeed make all the difference.

Relying on Nintendo for publicity is a bit much though. Sure, it must feel unfair to see other games being given more attention, but then again, not all games are created equal and Nintendo is well within their rights to pick and chose what to promote and what not.

Thy are in it for their own sake, they are trying to create a public image for their system, that works for them: quality games, diverse games, games that sell well on their system ... in other words a positive, feel good story of small indies finding commercial success with creative and diverse products on their platform. Obviously then, they are not going to waste their attention on something that might just be mediocre, uninspired or a potential commercial flop. That's not the narrative here.

While enjoying Cosmic Star Heroine on my Vita earlier this year, I looked into the games history and naturally came across several interviews with Robert Boyd. In at least half of them he comes across as more than a bit rude, and controversial for controvery’s sake. If he isn’t trashing Nintendo’s PR, he’s whining about Xbox’s ratings/user review system. The guy clearly has some issues when it comes to this sort of thing and has no problem crying foul whenever he feels like he hasn’t had the red carpet rolled out to him. Whether or not his complaints are valid, I can’t say, but it speaks volumes about him that it’s somewhat difficult to actually find an interview where he doesn’t complain about something.

That said, yeah, I’m sure Nintendo could be a bit better about their eShop - it’s trash if I’m putting it nicely, and sure, Xbox user reviews (or any platforms user reviews) are sometimes suspect. I think we all know that. But in the end, you’re doing yourself no favors by being the perpetual squeaky wheel. CSH as a game deserves better treatment from both Nintendo AND its own developer. If you dig turn-based RPGs, give it a try.

Honestly this looks good and I'm adding it to my list of to gets. It sucks that it couldn't have gotten advertised very well, but it seemed to score decently enough and is right up my alley.

I currently refuse to buy more games than I can play anymore so I do plan to get this just might be a while.

He really lost me at "If you like Octopath Traveler, you'l love my generic indie game!" Not understanding the real scope of what makes a great RPG great is where so many RPG devs, including Square-Enix so often go wrong. The Octopath team finally re-learned the magic that was lost to the company at the end of the SNES era, and it sold because people recognized it had what they've waited 20 years for. Random "it's just like Chrono Trigger!" games have come and gone for decades.

I love Cosmic. It is a great game. I purchased it before Octopath because I knew how long it would take to complete. It is one of the better indie RPGs. It was short and the story was great. I prepurchased it, but I had my eye on that game. It all boils down to oversaturation of indie games. It also boils down to not many indie RPGs are that good or RPGs that come out are usually mobile ports. I wish the devs well and I encourage them to keep up the good work because I am a fan of this game.

Sounds like a case of an indie developer wanting the perks of being a Nindie, without actually giving Nintendo anything in return.

Nintendo had laid our pretty specifically that if an independent developer wants their backing the game must be

Exclusive
Have Exclusive Content
Release First on Switch
Or
Use Unique Platform Features

I heard about your game and thought it looked generic and boring, that's why I didn't buy it. You have to understand that anyone can make a RPG Maker game so there has to be something to make your game standout. Banking on Nintendo to do that for you is stupid.

@Frendo Cosmic Star Heroine was part of one of Sony's PLAY promotions when it came out. It got plenty of promotion, at least on PS4, and I had it preordered as a result.

It definitely got promotion above and beyond most games on the PSN at the time.

@Nintendofan83 I can't say I agree with your sentiment. Sony gave this game more attention than Nintendo had. Its the reason I even know this game exists and why I scooped it up on ps4/vita. I had no idea it was releasing on switch. It had a few mentions on PlayStation blog, I can't recall if it got a tweet. It appeared on the PlayStation store landing page. This is a pretty obscure game and Sony is pretty good on touching just about every indie on their system. I'd imagine Microsoft is about the same and I know steam showcased this game and recommended it to me on pre-release complete with trailers.

If he is being whinny , perhaps he's entitled to it. Nintendo does play favorites. You're far more likely to hear about a technical marvel, exclusive game, or of them pilfering an exclusive for themselves then you will here about a cross platform title who's only merit is that it is good and sold well.

Unless an indie is getting 90% or more on metacritic, I won’t buy until it’s on sale. I have too many games to play to drop all the current games I’m playing to go for that. But for something like Hollow Knight or Celeste this year, those were worth dropping everything else to play.

@Whalehome that's really a subjective point of view. Some people who are into RPGs would say the same of cosmic star heroine and may find a game like hallow Knight or Celeste to their liking. I own Celeste and CSH. I really do not feel like hallow knight is drop everything worthy like say iconoclasts or even God of War.

@Stu13
Exactly. The guy was put in wait to have visibility in this e-shop pages and he is so amateur which he don't understood which he was being helped.

@Tsurii I thought people would wise up about the importance of these "gaming" forums by now. Resetera is just the worst scumbags of Neogaf leaving it and forming a new place to talk about games they never played and would never buy, plus a whole lot of toxicity where the slightest disagreement brings out the ban hammers

EA used to complain like this, it is NOT Nintendo’s job to market the game for you.

@NewAdvent

Yep and dunno if you experienced the Wii U era but MY GOD, to put your game on the Eshop and to get the validation from Nintendo...Pppppffffffffff... just insane !

You could experience a stuff like : "No, we can't put your game on the Eshop BECAUSE :

Nintendo said :"at the 3rd page of your electronic instruction manual you have placed your text 1 inch too high"

Us : WWWHHHAAATTT ??? o_O

Lol

Remember Zeboyd Games, it's not all about you, there's still hundreds of other indie devs who Nintendo is too busy trying to work with as well. You just had to wait your turn or had another publisher market the game for you. Can't rely on Nintendo all the time.

Most of the games I purchase are RPGs. I think it is shame that we are so tribal. I consider myself a Nintendo fanboy even. If someone gives criticism maybe they have a reason for it. I encourage everyone to try this game if they like a good RPG. It is about the games after all. Sometimes this site makes me vomit in my mouth. When people talk about a game they have not played or felt like they hurt Nintendos feelings because it is not what they want to here. It is garbage.

Why should it be up to Nintendo to promote this game? Isn't that the point of a publisher? The fact that anyone wants to port to Switch is because they think it will be easy money, but the fact of the matter is if your game is good it will sell.

Stop blaming the platform if your sales are down, and develope a better game.

I don't really understand Nintendo's relationship with Nindies, bigger studios like Wayforward, Image and Form etc seem to be close with them but for everyone else it's like the lottery. Even on the Wii U there were plenty of decent games struggling with Nintendo's approval system while RCMADIAX could release tons of games even if he considered them some of them as "test projects".

It's messed up

I'm a HUGE fan of Phantasy Star 2 -4... who here has played this? Basically looking at it I can add another 2 points to the review making it a 9 and a must buy for me right?

@Samwise7 You are so right.

@Kimyonaakuma They're not complaining about their game getting approval, they're complaining about their game not getting better traffic or more promotable and blame Nintendo for that. Like a teacher you can't discuss a student's work all at the same time, you had to work with everyone one at a time so everyone would be at the same page. These guys just being impatient. Desperate for attention would get you nowhere if you lack the patient for others.

I'd like to get this game,but I have too many RPGs(like Octopath) on my backlog and a bit short on money,so I'll wait for a discount or for whenever my RPG backlog becomes empty.....if that ever happens

I'm glad to see nin working with Indies but the shear volume is absurd. Releasing an indie a weekday with a tweet and a spot in the feed would be a tremendous improvement. I dare say if that was the case this "OK" title would not have made the cut. Either way I'm not interested in this game.

Such whining!!! Nintendo can’t be expected to promote every single game. Microsoft and Sony don’t either. Nintendo is a business and not your mother. Grow up and learn how to promote your own material. And I’m sure Nintendo has their side of the story as well. In the end you can’t make everyone happy and in business, sometimes business partners may feel neglected, but that may not necessarily be true. I work in high value real estate and I’m sure some developers would say the same about the place I work at. Doesn’t mean it’s true.

This article was totally unnecessary, as this is just a common part of doing business. In any business.

@DreamerDC Actually they did update the eshop. It now has longer lists of new and popular games.They also added a featured list.

@gortsi I agree Resetera is one of the worst forums out there.

The game IS on my radar but with current real life expense and a pretty hefty backlog of games + the fact that it doesn't feel like a MUST BUY MUST PLAY immediately type of game, I'm going to wait.... I may buy it later either at full price or on sales.

I bought this game because it looked interesting to me but I haven't started it yet because I'm still working on Octopath Traveler. there's a couple of things to consider here. to start with, AAA games are always going to get the Lion's Share of media attention. In addition to this, opening the floodgates for Indie titles means some games are going to get lost in the shuffle. companies need to do things that will make their games stand out. it's not Nintendo's job to promote every single game but rather give it a platform for people to play the game on. as long as the switch is selling well and Indie developers want to keep coming to the system this is something they will have to accept. Granted Nintendo is rolling out a lot of titles each week and their eshop does need some work, but it's not Nintendo's fault the game isn't selling well

Most games tend to have legs on Switch. If it's good, folk will buy it eventually after they clear their backlogs lol.

AND considering the little time per day these days that I can game + feeling up to gaming/ able to concentrate instead of just lying in my bed groaning of how tired I am, + my backlog

I'm so sorry, Cosmic Star Heroine, you are definitely going to stay just on my Radar /wishlist for a LONG time.

I’m not sure what that guy was expecting from Nintendo. I doubt they would get much more hubabaloo from Steam or other platforms. It is a shame that so many games are released each week which kind of bury any indie gems that are released. We can’t expect Nintendo to support every game that passes through eshop because then it just becomes meaningless.

I'm sorry, but this game is mediocre. The developer is trying to find a culprit.

The game bombed in Sony systems, bombed everywhere. Perhaps he should make a better game next time.

Wait. I'm confused this guy didn't get that many reviews, they weren't game selling stellar, and because Nintendo didn't waste their resources going to bat for them with free advertising and support it's THEIR fault the game didn't do as expected and not the maker? Seems like he's got some really good s..t he's smoking, perhaps he can share?

Well he has the exposure he was after now.

I think he is a little... Dramatic. I doubt it is anywhere near as good as Octopath Traveler. Such few games on the Switch could ever assert such an idea. That doesn't mean that it's a bad game.

I enjoyed the game, but haven't played the Switch version. I think maybe they should have done more themselves to advertise the game, as it hasn't been advertised well for any platform.

The game doesn't look good, and Nintendo is not their personal marketing department. This is just making excuses.

@teixeiras Still at a glance though the game looks great. It could be marketed easily on the strengths of the nostalgic visuals.

People seem to really focus in on the first quote and ignore entirely "we couldn't even get somebody to fix our store page before launch". Sure that first quote is pretty easy to dismiss, but I think it's far less important than the second one.

I knew this game was in the eShop for pre-purcalhase for a while but it really doesn't look like my thing, so that's partially on them.

However there are some things Nintendo needs to do to the eShop that would help alleviate this problem, and that's a ratings and a recommendation system based on purchased games.

This reminds me of the guy from EA/Bioware who blamed Andromeda sales and reviews because of other games being released at that time. Yet they are doing the same with Anthem. Lol. They need to look in the mirror when pointing that finger.

@NotSoCryptic I agree that it’s subjective— but then again, I haven’t heard anyone say that this game is a must play. From friends or reviews. But I have heard plenty of people speak highly of indies like Hollow Knight, Celeste and Iconoclasts. That being said, if someone likes a particular genre, they should try out other games in it and Nintendo should highlight other games with their eShop to share other games you might like if you enjoy one game in a genre. Show some options under the game as similar type games, etc...

@Stu13
It was pretty visible. Maybe they were expecting 20 times the sales on switch.

@gortsi

"leaving it and forming a new place to talk about games they never played and would never buy,"

Exactly this. You can see a lot of people blaming Nintendo and telling you to play, but they didn't play themselves ('I have a backlog', "I am waiting the Vita version", "because reasons..."

They like to defend this guy because he posts there and they feel special because this and tell everyone to play, but they did not play the game.

Awful and toxic place.

Yeah, I don't see how this is really Nintendo's fault. Funny how the real.standout Indies can sell based off word of mouth and good reviews. Shovel Knight,.Celeste, Steamworld games, Hollow Knight etc. etc. etc.

@Braneman "we couldn't even get somebody to fix our store page before launch"

One developer said that all the content there is on the publisher. This developer was answering (I think was on Reddit) why his game did not have a video and he said that they did not make one and soon they would put there.

This Robert from Zeboyd complained about Nintendo since last year. He is just looking for an excuse for this.

He even acknowledged that he made bad decisions regarding this game.

And now the SJWs from Resetera are blaming Nintendo Life. They said it is "very unfortunate and I think unfair ".

Oh, poor babies. When it is a success story, it's ok. What a bunch of losers.

I think he was just irate with the approval process. Ive once explained the situation with a Magic Pixel media representitive regarding the release of https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/zaccaria-pinball-switch, to me it feels like Nintendo was planning the game’s release where it isn’t a packed day, (like Thursday) hoping to give it enough exposure as soon as possible.

As of Boyd’s frustration with advertising the game’s release; that isn’t Nintendo’s buisness. If I was the one marketing the game; I’d push for more promotional material, like more trailers, and stuff like that. For that I say “he’s whiney”.

Not every game is going to sell 10-20× more on Switch than on Steam...

@DreamerDC do you have a fix? I see no problem with the eshop at all.

Every single game shows up with nearly equal visibility. You can filter by genre, you can search, there's a top selling list, there's a coming soon list, there's frequent news articles about different types of games, two indie showcase videos in the last month alone. What exactly do you want? Sony only last week FINALLY fixed their complete disaster of a search function after a full decade.

@Whalehome Well that's the sticking point isn't it? This game didn't review bad, in fact it rates a 76 on metacritic. I won't sit here and act like this is a masterpiece of gaming and worth passing up something like Octopath Traveler or Lost Sphere. Though I would say I'd like to know it exists. The area of "16-bit" rpg's is a bit limited even on switch. It isn't too much to ask to deliver on the bare necessities of releasing a game. Its a disservice to the consumer base to have some content have less presence than others if the review score has to be above an 8/10. Namely the capacity to preorder a game through the store front, see a trailer, and maybe have some kind of presence on the store landing page/blog/twitter. I won't act like sony is a saint about this, they certainly have some incomplete pages, but this game got exposure else where. They did better else where. Given the trend of how well some indies have done on Switch. nintendo has basically alienated a publisher/developer. The end result is them sticking to first parties that treat them better. This is a dangerous line to walk.

Sounds like someone that's just bitter they didn't get more sales for their game. Here's some advice: make a more interesting and exciting game and it will catch more people's attention.

@DreamerDC yup. Both may as well be turds smeared on a wall.

@DreamerDC actually that's just a load of crap.

Games easily get missed on both the PSN store and Xbox's. Can't exactly expect every nit pick and shoe box developers to get coverage.

Especially when your smashing out 20+ Indies a week... (Which actually is a much bigger issue than not giving a sub par game some coverage).

Before blaming Nintendo, consider this about your cover art:

1) Make an attractive and appealing cover/icon for your game. Your colors, composition and logo do nothing to help the game stand out or be appealing, within a sea of other icons

2) What is this promotional game art telling me about how the game will play or feel like? Here, I can't tell if it's a run 'n gunner, action platformer or RPG. I see "somber", "sci-fi" and "low energy" and a character holding a weapon. Confused whether it's action or strategy, etc, retro or modern. I looked up more screenshots, and it appears to be a Snes era Square looking RPG. Not getting that from this cover. A cover can't tell ya anything, but it should tell ya something.

3) If you can't afford to hire a quality cover artist, try reframing some in-game graphics in an interesting way. It will at least let ppl onto to what the game is about and hell it worked well for blackbox NES games before it. This looks super amateur and doesn't reflect what I'm reading from the screenshots.

4) It just looks generic. Avoid generic. I don't look up screenshots for every generic looking game icon I see. I don't even think too. Stupid comment but, if you can't avoid generic, and don't want to use in-game graphics, go with a cliched homage to something else.

@pod and @brimat seem to get it.

2 things here:

1. Most content stores I know of have a curated, in-house "recommendations" section that picks and chooses which games are featured and which aren't. The eShop could definitely use some improvement (like reviews, recommendations based on previous purchases, and better searchability based on the type of games you're looking for), but highlighting some games over others will always be a crap-shoot for indie titles since it's entirely up to Nintendo to feature what they want to feature.

2. Their pre-order option went up late, as did their trailer. Given that Nintendo very publicly stated that they want a deluge of indie titles and seem to want to take on the title of indie champions on the console market, their doors are probably blowing off the hinges right now with devs trying to contact them, publish games, and ask for page updates. Imagine trying to be one of the employees tasked with taking on that inbox of requests! Some things are bound to slip through the cracks, even if they have a large, well-run staff (and they almost definitely need to hire more people with their conservative track-record). While I feel that the trailer going up late probably wouldn't have made that much of a difference, the pre-order sale might have, so I'll call this a both-and: Nintendo could have done one or two things better to support this dev and can do more to improve support for indies on the eShop, and this developer seems to be blaming poor performance on things that they probably shouldn't have banked on for advertising/sales performance. Whiny as it may seem, I'm glad they're speaking out...they just maybe could be a little more practical.

Also, remember when Oxenfree became one of the top-10 best selling games on Switch back when they had a sale? It's doesn't seem impossible for developers to run additional sales when they want to push exposure for their titles, so that seems like an obvious option for this dev. But I'm no indie dev, so ¯(ツ)/¯ ...

I’m not sure if I’m reading this article correctly. There wasn’t an option to pre purchase the game in eshop and no video until recently? I pre purchased the game a month before release after watching the video in eshop.

Zeboyd has a history of complaining like this going back a decade, so I'm inclined to take this with a grain of salt.

@NEStalgia I feel the same, on the surface level it looks like a Kemco game.
I'm sure it's mechanically deeper and more original than that, but he seems to be lost at the idea that all Retro-Inspired RPGs aren't equal just because they call back to retro elements.
I also don't care for developers who toot their own horn in that manner. >.>

Great game anyways. Played and finished it on Vita. Highly recomend it. Great battle system.

Negative attention is also attention, mission accomplished

I just hope this helps the game visibility somehow because it is a great game.

Nintendo is busting threatening its fans with lawsuits so it can't be bothered with this.

@Mogster I love when people come to a site called “Nintendo Life” and complain about the “Nintendo defense league.” Seriously, what site do you think you’re on right now?

I’ve known about this game for a while and I didn’t buy it because it just looks kind of generic and slightly boring. I doubt many of the people commenting in defense of this developer and taking advantage of the opportunity to crap on Nintendo actually bought the game in question.

Demos help sell games too... ijs. Be proud of your work and promote yourself, but understand that not everyone is going to know of your game, or even like it. Perhaps before deciding to put CSH on Switch, maybe research of the methods, marketing, demographics, etc. on the Switch would've provided a roadmap to promotional success? Conjecture mind you, but Nintendo is not going to be able to please everyone. Did Guns, Gore, and Cannoli 2 rate high in reviews? Yeah, but did Nintendo promote it specifically? Well, not really. It is what it is. Demos? Sales? I dunno, put more effort into getting it seen more and perhaps fortunes will offset, but if your energy is spent on complaining rather than having humility, then fate will treat you accordingly.

Yawn

Complaining about how people won’t buy your game doesn’t seem like the best marketing. This flew under my radar but now I’m knowingly not interested.

I saw the quick look of this game on Giant bomb a while back, so when I saw it was up for pre purchase on the switch I didn't hesitate to get it. Still haven't played it I'm ashamed to say since my back log is eating me alive but it is next after the game I'm currently playing and I'm very looking forward to it.

Shame, but I expect this happens more often than we will ever know when it comes to developers trying to put their games on systems like that Switch that aren't the "chosen few", unfortunately.

Hard to know what to believe. I like Nintendo and I like Zeboyd. I'm actually a big fan of this two man duo development team. However it is puzzling that they would claim they are getting stonewalled when trash games make it to the e-shop. I feel like it can't be all Nintendo.

It's on my radar but there have been so many rpgs released along with games like Hollow Knight that eat up a lot of time. I think he's jumping the gun a little bit though and should wait a full month or so before he complains. I hate to say it but this isn't being pro active.

Yeah, a specific mention from Nintendo may have helped...then again, maybe not. It was promoted by Sony during E3 2016 with a trailer on their YT channel. That didn't help it sell on PS4. It isn't selling well on PC (Steam and GOG) either. I feel like I should mention it is on the Vita too (poor little thing).

Anyways, did they think the Switch would magically turn it around and it would be a hit without them doing anything extra? At least their publisher tried a bit, announcing the Switch version at this year's E3 along with the rest of their upcoming games. That's where I heard it was coming to Switch.

@DreamerDC Well, Nintendo has done nothing to improve the eShop except that you can browse by best selling games, new games, upcoming games, sales, and there’s even a highlights section... yeah, nothing at all.

The eShop can still improve in a lot of areas but saying that Nintendo hasn’t done anything to improve it is just untrue.

One more thing: expecting Nintendo to do the developers work in promoting a game is beyond ridiculous. They do exactly that with a seriously great number of games but it is impossible to give every single game the same exposure. The developers are the ones that need to take care of their own promotion.

Besides, now the developers are getting all the attention they could have ever wanted with every one talking about them these days (which might be one of the reasons to do this in the first place, even though he later said on Twitter that the one to blame for the game’s poor performance is himself alone and not Nintendo).

So, yeah, like you said this is “completely” on Nintendo’s shoulders. </s>

Hrm... that's a tough one. Nintendo's eShop format is HORRIBLE. Not every release is going to get air time/tweets/etc., but every release SHOULD get some major visibility on the eShop, and that needs to be done with a formatting change.

I think a lot of us have been pointing out for a while how flooded the eshop is becoming. Last week's games get buried by this week's which will get buried by next week's... The shops needs more than a simple list of "featured" games. We need tabs for genres, rotating highlights of games that change, every couple hours. I'd also add in flash sales. One or two games that go on sale at a nice discount for like, an hour, and rotate regularly. This would get people to check the shop regularly and they could put these flash sales right next to the rotating highlights.

Seams like a limited and unique situation. An exception, and not the rule. Also, I don't think we should use this and Octopath, in the same sentance....

@hirokun I agree with you on this.

This is one of the reasons why "30 or so indie games a week" is like shooting yourself, I write reviews for a site, and I mainly review indies, its not bad mind you since I actually love indie games, but the fact that this week for example I reviewed 3 indies 2 good 1 meh, and its not even scratching the surface off all indies pending, as my dad used to say just because its good it doesn't mean that you need to take it that far.

@Ashunera84 You mean you no longer have to manually scroll through a list of letters and select them individually Instead of typing them like EVERY OTHER SEARCH ENGINE?
Horray!

@Mordridakon Yup. Very recently changed. Finally.

I've known about this game for a long time. I was very excited to play it when it was announced--mainly because of the tagline that it was inspired by the 16-bit Phantasy Star games (my personal all time favorite games).

That said, I didn't have a pc--I have a Mac. In August 2018, I'm still waiting for the release on Mac. Likewise I had a PS Vita and hoped to play it there. Originally this game was supposed to come out on the same time on both Vita and PS4. It did not come out until much, much later than the PS 4 Version. When it finally did come out on Vita, I'd already given the system to my nephew.

Finally, I bought it on sale on the PS4 a couple of months ago. I've maybe played a third of the way through. It's a good game--but by this point it's a pretty old port.

Maybe buy the Limited Run Games version if you're still psyched to play it.

BTW I think the Switch version was mentioned in the Limited Run Games E3 presentation. @RupeeClock, Limited Run games didn't mention their switch version of the game in their presentation?

@teixeiras I got confused by this too. I think he meant the amount of reviews they got vs the content of said reviews; meaning exposure.

The guy has a point and at the same time Octopath Traveler is a standout game. Cosmic Star Heroine looks fun but I would consider it if it was $9.99 or less. Give me a demo for the current price at least. That is what Octopath Traveler did. I was hyped and I played the demo and that resulted in me pre-ordering it.

I bought the game last week and it’s attitudes like his that makes me regret buying the game and wish I could return it, even if it was something I’ve been waiting for.

The broken store page sounds like it's absolutely Nintendo's fault, and it likely impacted Cosmic Star Heroine's sales to some degree.

Also, what recourse does Zeboyd Games have other than going to the press? They've already tried, unsuccessfully, to resolve the issue with the Nintendo, and I doubt they have enough capital to afford to take Nintendo to court.

It's also not like Zeboyd is some new developer. They've been around since 2009. Cosmic Star Heroine is their 5th RPG. I'd be a bit miffed at how the whole situation was handled too.

@brimat Exactly. I've read a few variations of this developers complaints on various sites now. And the general consensus among the comments is that these guys did almost nothing with regards to marketing. Most comments were "never heard of the game"

The fact that they have a low number of reviews on metacritic backs this up. They did too little to engage with the community on their own, too little to make people discover their game.

Don't expect the storefront to do all your marketing for you, because hey! you are going to loose out to those people who actually do marketing in addition to being on the storefront.

Sounds to me like the devs need a proper publisher that actually understands marketing and competition.

@GlutenFreeGamer
I think you're right on the money with the workload.
It's unprofessional of Nintendo to launch a broken store page, but it can hardly have been news to Zeboyd that they would need to deliver to Nintendo in gooooood time. And seeing as this was a port, it isn't like they didn't have the material around at the time of finalizing the rest of the information for the page.

I don't know how any of this really happened though, if everything really was delivered before the page went up to begin with, but Nintendo just goofed it up, and didn't care that they did, I'd have been rather upset as well.

entitled much?

Yeah that sucked, cuz it was listed at 13.50 but it didn't say that was a pre-order price. I already have it on vitab& ps4 so I'd like to pay less to get it a 3rd time. I waited til a couole days after release to get it & it was $15. That was BS cuz all of the other games are marked as, "pre-order purchase price 20% off," etc.

As far as the vids, NoA SUCKS. Iconoclasts, guns gore & cannoli, dead cells, & many more didn't have videos on the Us store, while at the same time they have videos on the Japanese store IN ENGLISH. wtf, NoA? Cosmic star heroine is better than Octopath traveler imho, & certainly tge same audience would like both games. Nintendo screwed Zeboyd Games, for sure, cuz that could definitely have a switch exclusive sequel or something, but now will never get one & they will go back to making the godawful 8bit looking games.

They probably should have made more of a effort themselves. And by that I mean presence on youtube, twitter, etc. Get the word out!