Rumour Buster: The Nintendo 64 Classic Mini Game List 'Leak' is a Batch of Old PDF Files

Some of the people I talk to suggest there's not going to be an N64 mini. Seems more likely to me that Nintendo will just have virtual console for the N64. The controller would be quite difficult to manufacture anyway.

Either way it happens I'll be interested to see what Nintendo does.

N64 games have not aged well. Not the gameplay per say, but the graphics. They are a muddy blurry mess of irregular shapes. Unless it was your first system, I think it would be a harder sell.

I dunno... The games on the list all seem highly probable to be ones they'd use. Especially Mario Party 2-- as the original Mario Party is unreleasable due to the control stick injury issue.

I... I know a lot of you guys really want these plug and play mini consoles. But I really want VC and it feels like these mini consoles are the reason we still don't have VC on the Switch.

The Switch is the penultimate VC device because of it's hybrid nature. I want it so much!

An N64 mini could be a bit more expensive, not only do you have the controller issue as somebody has mentioned but they will need upgraded parts as opposed to the 2 current minis sharing the same parts. N64 emulators require a good single core cpu to be even half decent and many roms suffer from issues. Then you have to consider licensing issues for such a large percentage of its best games making virtual console a more logical choice

@NESlover85 I agree to an extent but outputting via HDMI would clear all the bluriness which was caused by the N64 itself and not the games. I think they should use any hardware to bump up the frame rate for these games but I suspect we'll get some form of VC anyway rather than hardware

NOOOooooo!!!!!!!

Honestly, I think that the release of an N64 Classic would be casting a light on a problem that has plagued Nintendo since that era: third party support.

Before anybody jumps down my throat, I am well aware of the absolute gems that have appeared on every Nintendo console, period. However, the 64 was the first Nintendo console that had no certified third party classic (before anybody says it, Rare was a second party developer). Were there good third party titles? Sure. However, there was nothing that was influential on the level of, say, Mega Man, Castlevania, Street Fighter II, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, etc. Luckily, the Gamecube saw the release of several third party titles that I would argue were absolute classics (Resident Evil 4, Soul Caliber II, Super Monkey Ball).

The SNES and NES aged so much better than the N64. The best games for it have seen superior rereleases/remakes, and the only thing that would make it a must have (a hook similar to the release of Starfox 2) would be if they included the 64DD titles as a weird little bonus (which would never happen).

I don't understand, these are just the manuals for VC games on the Nintendo.co.uk site? They have N64 and GBA manuals and have had them on there for years. They don't have SNES and NES ones for some reason, which is a shame.

These are the European manuals so they're in black & white and look rubbish. Nintendo.com have some manuals too for N64 and GBA, but they're less comprehensive unfortunately. I know because I've scoured the site finding all the PDF manuals I could! I'd love access to the US F-Zero X manual for download as it is in full colour and has a comic I believe.

I love my snes mini but I honestly don't think I'd be interested in an n64 mini, there just weren't enough decent games for it (or not ones that wouldn't have licencing issues anyway)

A gamecube mini on the other hand I'd be on it like the proverbial car bonnet

@NESlover85 Try the Wii64 or Not64 emulators on Wii and Wii U: nothing blurry about it, and super tight 3D and very clear and beautiful colors.

Of course, the crude 3D stays, but if you're able to look past that, there's still quite a bit of fun to be had in some of these games.

@LordGeovanni The controller is just a plastic mold, which they will more than likely still possess, and otherwise, there are more than enough clone controllers available to this day, so it could actually quite easily be reproduced.

The PCB and so on also doesn't have to be an issue. And they could actually take advantage of third party analog sticks, which are a HUGE improvement over the original.

I'm sorry but as much as I love the N64 I just don't see the N64 mini happening. It was never as popular as its predecessors, N64 games have aged terribly, not to mention that without Rare's games it'd be really hard to find 20-30 games still enjoyable today. One of the strengths of the N64 was the 4 player multiplayer, I don't see the console shipping with 4 controllers either... I could be completely wrong, of course.

@carlos82 Trust me, Nintendo has no intention of launching a VC in the foreseeable future. That's the very reason this Classic Edition series exists in the first place. Not having VC on Switch simplifies things for Nintendo-- they don't have to try to accommodate past VC purchases from Wii/Wii U/3DS. Plus, using the Classic Edition series as the only modern way to own these games offline, helps encourage subscriptions to Switch's upcoming online service which will apparently be offering classic games online Netflix-style.

@AcidFox

Pretty much what I was attempting to say but you've worded it much better than I did

@ThanosReXXX
As far as I'm understanding, a Nintendo rep was speaking with a friend at a GameStop and what they said made sense to me. The controller itself is particularly finicky in how it's created. This was also the major problem Nintendo had with creating them back when the N64 was a major system. Even with that, the system doesn't have a lot of major key games, third-party support was lower, and the system wasn't around for as long as previous. All of these amount to the idea it would be easier to just institute virtual console on switch. I do honestly feel that Nintendo has refused to mention VC on switch in order to not cannibalize sales of the classics and they will mention VC once the online subscription has started.

@NESlover85 I agree that the 2D games age much much better but if they upscale the N64 to a decent resolution it will improve the situation a HUGE amount. 1440×1080 would be ideal but even 640x480 is a drastic improvement over 320x240 for N64 games.

@NESlover85 If you happen to have an LCD TV with an S-Video input, like I do, they look pretty good. No, it's not what you're use to seeing today but S-Video looks much better than a Composite input. Otherwise, they do make S-Video to HDMI converter boxes.

@AcidFox They could easily enhance them but I agree. I forgot about the issues with licensing. Without the RARE games there isn't a lot to offer. Before I sold my N64 I had basically every RARE game and maybe 3 others.

@AcidFox

007: The World Is Not Enough
1080 Snowboarding
Armorines: Project S.W.A.R.M.
Army Men 1 & 2
Automobili Lamborghini
Beetle Adventure Racing
Bio F.R.E.A.K.S.
Body Harvest
Bomberman 64
Chameleon Twist 1 & 2
Donald Duck: Goin' Quackers
Disney's Tarzan
Dr. Mario 64
Doom 64 (arguably the best version, there's even a PC mod of that version available)
Duke Nukem: Zero Hour
Earthworm Jim 3D
ECW Hardcore Revolution
Excitebike 64
Extreme-G 1 & 2
F-1 World Grand Prix I & II
F-Zero X
Fifa Road to the World Cup
Fighters Destiny 1 & 2
Forsaken 64
Gauntlet Legends
Glover
Hexen
Hot Wheels Turbo Racing
Hybrid Heaven
Hydro Thunder
Iggy's Reckin' Balls
International Superstar Soccer 2000
Jeremy McGrath Supercross 2000
Kirby 64
Legend of Zelda OoT
Legend of Zelda MM
Mario Golf 64
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party 1, 2, 3
Mario Tennis 64
Mischief Makers
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
MRC: Multi-Racing Championship
NBA Jam 2000
The New Tetris
Off Road Challenge
Operation: Winback
Paperboy 64
Quake 64
Quake II
Re-Volt
Resident Evil 2
Ridge Racer 64
Road Rash 64
Roadsters
Paper Mario
Pilot Wings 64
Pokémon Snap
Pokémon Puzzle League
Pokémon Stadium 1 & 2
Rayman 2
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Rush 2: Extreme Racing USA
S.C.A.R.S.
San Francisco Rush 2049
Shadow Man
Sin and Punishment
Snowboard Kids 1 & 2
South Park Rally
Space Station Silicon Valley
Star Fox 64
Star Wars - Episode I: Battle for Naboo
Star Wars - Episode I: Racer
Star Wars: Rogue Squadron
Starshot: Space Circus Fever
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Bros 64
Tetris 64
Tetrisphere
Tonic Trouble
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1, 2 & 3
Top Gear Hyper Bike
Top Gear Overdrive
Top Gear Rally 1 & 2
Turok 1, 2 & 3
V-Rally Edition '99
Vigilante 8 1 & 2
Wave Race 64
WCW vs. nWo: World Tour
Wipeout 64
World Driver Championship
WWF Attitude, No Mercy, War Zone & Wrestlemania
Yoshi's Story

Personally, I don't like all of them, but save for a few I forgot, that's more or less the list without the Rare games, and it seems to me that people, or Nintendo themselves, could EASILY pick 20 games or more out of that list.

But assuming there is even going to be an N64 Mini, there probably won't be more than 16 games on there, taking into account the ever shrinking number of games going from the NES Mini to the SNES Mini...

About half of the games on N64 worth playing are made by rare, and with them being owned by Microsoft and unable to re-release their games on a Nintendo system... it's just not going to work. While the SNES Classic is a pretty good aggregation of the best SNES games (minus the bizarre gaping holes of Chrono Trigger and DKC2) the N64 classic would just feel half-baked.

I'd rather they skip straight to a Gamecube Classic or Gameboy Advance Classic if they're going to continue the series, but honestly they probably will just end it with the SNES.

@BanjoPickles The term ''second party'' doesn't exist. Rare was a third party, Nintendo didn't own them.

So by the logic of the internet, 2018 is N64 Classic, 2019 is GameCube Classic, 2020 is Wii Classic, 2021 is Wii U Classic, and 2022 is Switch Classic.

@Octane https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

If you want sources other than wikipedia a quick Google search can provide other sources, but second party is a thing. Rare wasn't one though.

@ThanosReXXX Good list. I was going to say I could probably name a dozen good non-rare games but couldn't think of them. Most of those games in your list were decent, some of them I wouldn't bother with today but liked back in the day (Wrestling games and such). But yeah I could pick 20 from that list no problem.

@ShadJV By that logic eventually Nintendo's current system of the time will be released as a classic the same year Maybe one day the classic will come first

@LordGeovanni "The controller itself is particularly finicky in how it's created."

But what exactly is that "finicky" part? I've opened and repaired plenty of them, and I've never found anything particularly daunting...

And I'm definitely no specialist either, so...

@JebbyDeringer Yeah, me neither. Like I said, I don't even like all of them myself, but I wanted to show that there's something there for everybody, and that it is indeed easily possible to select 20 or more, even without all the Rare games.

Nintendo's own games alone are already good for almost 20...

@ShadJV Just because people made it up, doesn't mean it's a thing, or should be a thing. The term ''third party'' is sufficient for describing all relations with external companies that are not part of and/or owned by the console manufacturer. In business, three parties are described. The ''first'' and ''second'' parties are the seller and the customer, or the console manufacturer and the end user (that's us) in the case of video games. Third party describes any company that falls outside this relation, and is not bound by the contract between the seller and the buyer. That's where the term third party comes from.

As much as I would love a n64 mini unless they have some of the third party games on it (resident evil 2,the world is not enough cuz no chance of goldeneye all the Star Wars games etc)I wouldn’t get it I have all the main Nintendo games from vc on wiiu, I have physical copy’s of the above games but like others have said they haven’t aged well so if they are upscaled to 720p they would look half decent the wiiu ones look really good at 420p, wonder if they would ship it with 4 controller ports

@NESlover85 Not so with many of the games that used the expansion pak. Donkey kong 64 was as crisp as technically possible back then.

And not everyone's eyes will melt if they play a sub-HD game in 2018/2019.

@carlos82 hopefully if they do come to Switch VC they will be less blurry. I never bought a 64 game for Wii U, were they less blurry on that?

@NESlover85 I agree. 20fps, 240p textures need to stay in my distant memory. Nintendo is better off remastering the best of the n64 games and releasing them on the switch virtual console.

@JebbyDeringer then here's hoping for higher resolution on the N64 mini or the more likely N64 games on Switch VC. I'd love to play Mario 64 with less blurr. I do have Mario 64 on DS but the controls are a little wonky....I wonder if you can use the circle pad on the 3DS to simulate the analog stick?

@GC-161 Sub HD has never bothered me. I frequently play my Game Cube and PS2. I can see where other people would have a problem with it though. I do have a hard time replaying games from the N64/PSONE generation though

@TenEighty I didn't know the N64 had an S-video output.

Let sleeping dogs lie. 😂

@ThanosReXXX - Curious if post #8 was sarcastic? You’ve become synonymous, in my mind, with N64 and Dreamcast. I realize us 64 lovers have multiple methods to play the games we love, I’m an original hardware and cart player, but the temptation of HDMI on my main screen is quite alluring. I’m sure I have a cart of every game that would come on a mini, but I’d love to be surprised and... HDMI. I’m still playing on my original controllers, but I’ve purchased a few second hand and had to replace the sticks. Couldn’t be easier.

@NESlover85 Yep and so does the SNES. The Nintendo S-Video cable will work on both. Just don't buy one that has a Composite/S-Video combo cable. It has to be S-Video only or else it is really displaying Composite out on the S-Video end. That combo cable is just a cheap knock off brand.

@bimmy-lee Well, I was kind of joking, hence the smiley, but otherwise, I definitely wouldn't mind an HDMI version of an N64.

But I do already have pretty decent N64 emulation on my Wii with the two best emulators you could possibly have on there: Wii64 for most of the games, and Not64 for the more troublesome ones, like Conker's Bad Fur Day and so on. And my high quality component cables make Wii mode, and the subsequent emulators look far better both picture and color-wise than the HDMI-equipped Wii U, otherwise I would have transferred all my emulators onto that console.

So, they would have to make a truly stellar N64 Mini for it to perform better than those emulators. And then there's of course also Project64 on PC.

But in the end, if an N64 Mini actually does become a reality, I'd probably pre-order one anyway...

IF this is ever a thing, I'll definitely be buying one. I've held off on most N64 VC games on my Wii U for the time being just in case this does come to pass.

@NESlover85 Do you have a CRT TV set? These games look great with such TV's. Especially trinitrons.

If you try playing them on anything but that kind of TV's, they'll look like total butt.

@Octane They owned 54 49%, which is as good as owning them (because Rare couldn't do much without Nintendo's consent, and they also helped them gain more crew and means/tools):

"'During its early years, Rare was backed by an unlimited budget from Nintendo, primarily concentrated on Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) games. During this time they created successful titles such as Wizards & Warriors, Battletoads, and R.C. Pro-Am. Rare became a prominent second-party developer for Nintendo, who came to own a large minority stake of the company.

During this period, Rare received international recognition and critical acclaim for games such as Donkey Kong Country, GoldenEye 007, Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Conker's Bad Fur Day."

EDIT:
And by the way, your explanation of what first and second party actually means, is almost completely wrong. Yes, first party is the seller, or in this case rather: the main manufacturer/developer that actually owns the platform, the second party developers are the ones exclusively developing for that platform and no other, and third party developers are the so-called multi- or cross-platform developers. That is the only correct interpretation of the various parties.

Nobody made that up, either. Those are official labels as they are used in the game development industry. And even in the automation/IT industry as a whole, which is actually the business I am in, so if anything, I probably would know about that bit...

@NESlover85 Do you have a Wii? Or would you be willing to soft mod your Wii U in Wii mode? If so, try the emulators I mentioned: Wii64 and Not64.

In my honest opinion, games played in those emulators look more than fine, and actually quite a bit better than on the original hardware. No blurry screens at ALL.

@JebbyDeringer apparently. I don't really think an N64 Classic is super likely - I mean it's possible but people seem to be assuming it will be a thing next year because we got SNES Classic this year and NES Classic last year. That doesn't seem like solid logic for exactly the reason I stated though, they realistically won't keep releasing a Classic system every year. And they already covered their two most popular "retro" systems, N64 may be loved by some of us (me included) but it's where Nintendo
first started beginning to see a loss in sales and it hasn't aged as well. If they make an N64 Classic I'd probably get one but I don't think it's very likely, especially next year, this isn't just a pattern that can continue indefinitely.

@ShadJV You should change that logic of the internet comment ever so slightly: first, we're going to get a new batch of the NES Mini in 2018, and I highly doubt they're going to publish another Mini right after that.

By the way: there are also rumors of a Game Boy (Color) Mini, so if you take that into account as well, and perhaps even a GBA Mini, then we can even add a couple of more years, making the Switch Mini arrive no sooner than 2026/2027...

@Octane do you not understand how language works? It's been evolving with new words forming and old words changing in meaning for at least tens of thousands of years. Whether you agree with the changes or not. Second party is most definitely a term used now, no matter how first or third parties were originally defined. And definitions have never been static, they change based on how people use it. Second party nowadays is used to describe a company that a first party holds significant stocks or control of so that they only publish for that first party company. Third parties are completely autonomous. I can see it being argued whether Rare was truly "second party" but arguing whether that's an actual term (or should be) is superfluous, if it's used enough it becomes a term, and the definitions of other terms change.

@ThanosReXXX I was responding to the common rumor that N64 Mini will be coming next year. Which is definitely a thing I've seen a lot of people argue. Most of whom seem to basically be assuming based on a current "pattern". (Of course, others cite stuff like "leaks" but to be honest it's not hard to find something unofficial backing nearly any argument online.)

@ShadJV Yeah, I know. I was just pulling your leg a bit, hence the smiley at the end and me adding the Game Boy rumor...

@ThanosReXXX oh I know, I didn't mean to imply I thought you were serious, I was more of just elaborating on my original comment. I didn't actual think you'd expect a "classic edition" of the Switch within the next decade!

@ShadJV Come to think of it, while speculating on those rumors and continuing on with other Minis: they'll probably skip the Wii Mini, since that has already been a thing, and practically nobody bought it:

And for good reasons, because that little device was seriously gimped...

@ThanosReXXX - I thought it was a joke, but wasn’t positive. I understand apprehension on the part of 64 affecinadios though, I really do.

One of my few gripes with the WiiU was how VC games were displayed, especially 64 games. I only made a few purchases before I shut down my spending in that regard and was right back to my console and CRT sets. Cheers!

@bimmy-lee Yeah, I've seen some of those VC versions at a friend's house, before I actually had my own Wii U. After seeing that, I simply decided to stick to my modded Wii and N64 emulators...

GBA mini with the and GBA games too. Now that's a mini I want!

If there is another classic I believe it would be the gba. The gba library is so much bigger than the n64's, and I wouldn't be surprised if a n64 mini would be more expensive. The n64 has some great games but Nintendo probably believes it wasn't popular enough to warrant a mini rendition. The nes and snes are loved by everyone and a gameboy classic that's includes Nintendos best efforts across the og gb to the gba would make more sense. Not saying people wouldn't buy a n64 classic but the gba classic has a bigger library and would probably be a better value to non nintendo fans.

In 2019, VC still won't be on Switch

@Linked2thaPast well a lot of people, like me, have nostalgia for N64 (and GBA too) but none for the S/NES. I'd find a N64 Mini far more exciting than what we've had so far

@ThanosReXXX - A wise choice. 64 games were so bad, it almost seemed intentional. It wasn’t of course, but still.

@ThanosReXXX Sadly a lot of those were licensed, so I don't think there are any chances of Nintendo putting them on a mini system. Also, calling "good" some those is a bit of a stretch (Armorines?
Hexen? EWJ3D? South Park Rally? Fighter's Destiny? But you skipped Goemon's Great Adventure, Mystical Ninja and Robotron 64...), and most (if not all) have aged poorly.
I do agree about Doom 64, along with Doom 2016 it's my favorite Doom, I really should try the pc mod someday.

I cannot wait to play quest 64,mortal combat mythologies and of course superman 64.

/s

I still think an N64 mini could work. Even though Goldeneye (and probably all the other Rare games) would be noticeably missng, it would still have Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Smash Bros and Mario Kart 64. That's more than enough to peak peoples' interests.

I also came up with the controversial idea of this mini system using Gamecube controllers. As much as I love the 64 trident, it was never iconic in the same way that the NES and SNES controllers were. A GC controller has a better thumbtack and has stood the test of time thanks to the smash community. They're gonna need other ways to sell them beyond their inevitable inclusion in Smash Switch.

Also playing N64 games on the Wii Virtual Console with Gamecube controllers is pure bliss.

N64 was my childhood system, I'd love it.

@Octane

Nintendo owned stake in Rare, which they sold in 2002. Rare wasn't a third party developer, and they weren't a first party developer. They're widely acknowledged as being a second party developer, primarily throughout the 64-bit era.

@ShadJ

They became second party after the success of DKC.

Make it!

@ThanosReXXX to be fair, the Wii Mini didn't follow the formula the "Classic Editions" have. As in it didn't have preloaded games, it was just a gimped Wii (no online, no GameCube support, no SD support, etc). So in theory they could try a "Wii Classic" someday. I'd argue it's not retro but I suppose there will reach a time it will be...

Why release a N64 mini when they can just put all the games on the Switch eshop?

During my Teenhood ( 1996 ) i was raised by PlayStation 1. So many Wonderful PS1 games that became my Favorites all the time such as Dance Dance Revolution ( Yup, DDR was started from PlayStation machine, NOT from N64), Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy IX, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Harvest Moon Back to Nature, Disney Magical Tetris, Punky Skunk, Bishi Bashi Special, etc.

If i have to choose between PS1 & N64, i will choose PS1 definetely, not because i don't like N64. I have never heard or realized about N64 & the games during that era.

Also, between PS2 & Gamecube, i will choose PS2 definetely. But, between PS2 & Wii, i will choose BOTH of them. Starting Wii and NDS era, i choose Nintendo side until today.

I looked at the page with the manuals and found it funny there is an entry for Starfox 64 but the manual is for Lylat Wars.

@NESlover85 Many NES and SNES titles can have the same thing said of them. The overwhelming majority of these "Mini" consoles and of retro game purchases on Virtual console services are based on Nostalgia. How many kids do you know of buying retro games made years before they were born?

I'd rather just have these games on VC for Switch at this point. The SNES mini was okay because the controllers are actually half decent, but I can't say I was a huge fan of the 64 controller (mainly the weak sticks). I'd rather just use Pro Controllers.

@Octane Second party totally exists. Second party companies are companies like Rare was, or Game Freak is, that are not owned, but in close partnership with a single first party like Nintendo.

I just want a GameCube mini. One that is indigo, but with orange controllers. I'm not asking much, am I?

Dear Rare,

Release Diddy Kong Racing on Switch, and you can name your price

Miss you,

Davo

@NESlover85 they're fine if played on a CRT. When I see people hooking old consoles to HD tv's I want cry.

@Bondi_Surfer Nintendo own the donkey kong family characters.

@NESlover85 I would assume so, I played them on Wii and they were clearer on that then the N64 but that still a component cable at 480p. When I've run them on an emulator with no upscaling whatsoever they are crystal clear and suspect they will be on Wii U also. All of the fuzziness of N64 games was caused by how the console transmits the signal to the TV, don't get me wrong the graphics will still be a bit blocky but the image will be clean

I would say Gameboy classic is more likely than a N64. Firstly, it is more iconic/nostalgic then the N64. Secondly, games will be cheaper to license and require less power.

I think N64, if coming, is a couple of years away.

n64is just the most hyped in nostalgia of all Nintendo consoles. The games still look awesome nowadays (in opposition with the psone and in a certain degree de PS2).
P.s: no, it was not my first console as I was already playing games in the 80's

Nintendo should just re-release a small redesigned N64 console along with newly designed carts. They could sell the console at £50/$50 and carts at say £10/$10 to £20/$20... Would probably make much more money that way...

@Ervex_109 @ThanosReXXX @ShadJV I understand how language works, but that doesn't mean you can make up new words willy-nilly and expect them to become part of our vocabulary. I'm going to tag @BanjoPickles and @Heavyarms55 as well, since I also got a reply from you two.

First of all, you're all citing Wikipedia (and Eurogamer, but they aren't any more credible than you or me). The irony is that two out of the three ''definitions'' stated on Wikipedia are tagged with [citation needed], and that's not without reason, there is no source. The first definition links to a 1996 issue from Next Generation (the full text of that issue can be found here), and the citation refers to a letter send in by a user, hardly an official source either.

I haven't seen a publisher or console manufacturer use the term ''second party'' either, so if anyone can link me some sources, that would be appreciated.

The reason I don't see the need for redefining a term that already exists is because third party already adequately describes the relation between console manufacturers and other parties. Additionally, there's no solid definition for ''second party'' either, as you all have just proven. Every one of you gave a different definition: From two companies with shared interests, and companies developing exclusively for a single platform to publishers owning a ''significant'' amount of shares, or any amount of shares at all, and even a ''partnership''. Heck, some of you cited Rare as a ''second party'' and others called it a third party. There's no consistency.

Some of you cited GameFreak, because they develop mostly for Nintendo, but they aren't bound by a contract. They have made games for other platforms. Only Pokemon is bound by a contract, and it just doesn't make any sense to develop anything substantial outside of that franchise. Why put resources into a new IP if you can churn out a new Pokemon game every two years that is guaranteed to sell 10+ million copies? GameFreak is a third party company, it's just in their interest to make new Pokemon games, because nothing else can top the profits they make of those games. But that's hardly a solid definition for ''second party''.

Rare is in a somewhat similar boat. Nintendo never owned the company (49% is still a minority). And the only reason a lot of developers stuck with one console back in the day was because of the differences in architecture. Consoles were very different back then and porting wasn't as easy as it is today. Heck, these days PS4, Xbox One and PC even share the same architecture. In the 90's some companies were better off developing for one system. Developing a new game was just as profitable, if not more, than porting it. Which in most cases meant developing from scratch anyway. And once you've garnered a bit of interest in your games on one platform, it doesn't make any sense to start from zero on another platform. Plus, it was Nintendo that helped them grow, so it was more a case of returning the favour than anything else. Still, that doesn't change the fact that they could in fact develop for any other system if they wanted to. If the architecture and game development wasn't a complete mess in the 90's, I doubt we would have ever seen the amount of exclusive titles that released during that era.

I already the described the relationship between the seller, the buyer and a third party in my previous post: ''The term ''third party'' is sufficient for describing all relations with external companies that are not part of and/or owned by the console manufacturer. In business, three parties are described. The ''first'' and ''second'' parties are the seller and the customer, or the console manufacturer and the end user (that's us) in the case of video games. Third party describes any company that falls outside this relation, and is not bound by the contract between the seller and the buyer. That's where the term third party comes from.''

There's no reason to use another term to describe these companies. Third party makes perfectly sense. Yes, deals can be made, but Square didn't become a ''second party'' when they developed Tomb Raider for the Xbox One.

In short, the term third party is sufficient for describing the relation between platform holders and (third party) software developers. As far as I know, no company uses the term ''second party'', and it's nothing more than a fan-made term. Furthermore, it doesn't even have a solid definition, and as long as nobody can even agree on what it means, I don't think we should even consider it as part of our vocabulary. It's a word that can mean everything you want it to be from my experience. And lastly, the idea of a second party is already well-defined as either the platform holder or the end user depending on your point of view, even less reason to redefine the term IMO.

Regardless, it's likely these would be the games on an N64 mini, which I own all physically //bragging.

If they do release it, I'd be mostly interested in the hacking of one. As it'll be perfect for a gaming night rather than having to bring over the console, bulky controllers, cartridges, blowing to get them working. I don't think the available standard ROMs would work well, they'll need to optimized in some way.

I honestly can’t think of 15 ‘classic’ games for the N64, let alone 20-30. And that’s not taking into consideration the difficulty of remanufacturing the controller, the licensing of games and the value-cost.

I purchased one when it was released and played it right through its lifecycle; it was a system of quality over quantity. Those that did own lots of games did so more or less because the choices were limited. Many games that went on sale were poor.

As others have said, those early 3D graphics haven’t aged well at all either. Unlike the NES/SNES, there is no consistent art style that will remembered fondly in 10, 20 years from now. Games were fuzzy from the anti-aliasing, and frame rates - while just accepted at the time - are frustrating now.

Frankly I’d rather own a PS1 Classic.

@AcidFox Most of these licenses are either non-existent, or will offer no problem for Nintendo, as seen in the previous two minis, that also had plenty of licensed games. I do believe that the main reason for my list was showing how many games there would still be left if you removed the games that Rare made for the N64.

Also, the list not being complete is beside the point: I already said so in that very comment that I haven't listed them all, but it was just to give people an idea of what was left.

And "good" is of course subjective, which I ALSO clearly stated in that comment. I don't like all of those games in that list either, but we all have different tastes, so some games you might think are bad or even total crap, might be a nice trip down memory lane for someone else.

I listed them because I didn't want to judge that, so it's a more or less objective list. Example: to me, the N64 version of WipeOut is far superior to the PSX one, because it looks and controls better. The only downside is that it doesn't have the uncompressed CD soundtrack, but other than that, it is the best version in my opinion.

And personally, I don't think that the games have aged that badly: I'm 47, and have been playing since Pong and the Atari 2600, and I still play Atari 2600 games from time to time. Being able to see games for what they are and not compare them to the shiny, new uber-HD games is part of being able to enjoy them to the fullest instead of just thinking of them as ugly or unplayable.

In fact, due to the hardware restrictions, the gameplay in some of these games and the tricks they pulled to make them work, are to this day still superior to quite a lot of games, even the so-called triple A games.

Oh, and Fighter's Destiny was probably the best 3D fighter on the system. Crude, but good. Most of the other titles were far worse.

@Emperor-Palpsy I'd say, take a look at that list I posted in comment #21. More than enough to choose from, and anyone should be able to find something of their taste in there.

And saying that the N64 has aged badly and subsequently hinting at the PSX being better, with its WAY inferior 3D graphics, is really a bit of a stretch. And that is putting it VERY mildly...

@Octane First off, I wasn't the one that pointed out the language thing, so thanks but no thanks for including me in that bit.

Second, I did quote from Wikipedia, but that is simply because they offer a clear explanation of what the situation was back then. And most if not all articles on Wikipedia will have a [citation needed] button in there. That doesn't mean that the information is false by default.

And finally, and AGAIN, your explanation of what the various parties are is incorrect in relation to the topic. You can keep quoting that seller/customer bit, but it just isn't correct in this respect. That is only used for consumer/seller relations, in whatever is sold: from spoons to houses. In that case, the store (seller) is the first party and you (customer) are the second party, provided a contract is made (or breached), so that explanation falls under contract law.

Of course, that could also be used when selling software, but we weren't talking about selling it: we were talking about software development, and in that case, first, second and third party distinctions are definitely a thing.

I'm 47, and I'm a sales and marketing professional in the IT industry, 20+ years of experience, and I am telling you that where this topic here is concerned, the label "second party developer" is an actual, existing thing, not just something that a pimply basement dweller has made up and thrown on the worldwide web.

The terminology is used for specific reasons, and that is to make a CLEAR difference between parties that are more autonomous and independent, and parties that are more or less strictly bound to a single company. It works the exact same way in IT as it does in the games industry.

So, if a company makes software themselves, it is first party. But parties that are bound by contract to make software for another party, are second party, and parties that are not bound to that single other party and are free to diversify, are third party. A third party can also be a party that makes software for the second party, which they might use for whatever they're making for the first party, so think tools and middleware used for game development.

And because you asked, here are some links:
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=206689
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=102201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxR0sUT3egc
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2whfrv/eli5_first_second_and_thirdparty_game_developers/

So, taking that into account, as well as my own business knowledge and experience (which in many ways corresponds with the games industry as well) I think I'll stick with the explanation I gave earlier...

@ShadJV I know, I was joking again.

@ThanosReXXX I wasn't going to write five replies, and I couldn't split the post without me repeating things, so I've included all of you in the reply, pick and choose your answer I guess!

It doesn't mean the information is true either. It means that there's no source to back up the claim. And random forum posts or YouTube videos don't count as sources. Anyone can make those. I asked for sources where a platform holder calls another developer ''second party'', or where a developer calls itself a ''second party''. I still haven't seen any. The industry doesn't use those terms, because they don't exist. And any attempt at a definition is so vague that it may as well mean nothing at all.

@Octane Fair enough for the inclusion. It was meant as tongue in cheek, though, hence the added smiley...

But boy, you are a stubborn one. I don't know what else to tell you. In all my years in the IT business, the term was used all the time, and it meant exactly what I (once again) explained quite clearly and extensively.

And Ars Technica is a VERY reputable source. Anyone in the IT business knows that, so to not take information coming from them seriously, or at the very least as being well-investigated is laughable to say the least.

As for me, I will only cede/give up to someone with either more knowledge, who's older and more experienced, or someone who is actually in the business, but NOT to some young guy who is admin on a gaming site, no offense.

I know I'm right and I'll stick by it, come hell or high water. I've done enough explaining, so believe what you will and be stubborn about it, I know what's what, and that's enough for me.

@ThanosReXXX ''I know I'm right''

...let's just agree to disagree in that case...

@Octane I'll just agree to agreeing you're wrong or not nearly knowledgeable enough to dispute my 20+ years of experience and knowledge, unless you can actually prove otherwise.

Disputing what I'm saying is ridiculing/dismissing factual information that is used within companies such as HP, Compaq, NetApp, Juniper, Dell, Microsoft, Symantec, and even Google. All companies I either worked for or did marketing assignments for.

I think that the stuff I learned during those times weighs in at quite a bit more than anything that you might have to say. Show me a resumé heavier or more well-versed in IT than mine, and I might, just maybe, reconsider.

Otherwise, your statements are null and void to me and anyone else with half a brain and some knowledge on the matter.

Have a good one.

For all you people wanting that N64 Classic Mini experience that aren't willing to wait for it to possibly become a reality, here's something I came across today:

@ThanosReXXX I don't care what you do for a living, or how long you've done it. I've met people with over 30 years of experience, and they were still wrong at times. A good argument trumps any kind of experience.

I asked for evidence of the usage of ''second party'' in the gaming industry. I've never heard Nintendo or Sony mention it, I've never heard a third party developer describe themselves as second party either.

I'm not going to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the people claiming the word has an actual meaning in the industry.

@Octane The proof I asked is what experience/knowledge you have, doesn't have to be as many years as mine. I have frequently learned stuff from people that weren't in the business as long as I, simply because they knew more about a specific topic.

I'm not shy in accepting such knowledge, even though they might be younger and I clearly trump them in experience, because you are never too old to learn something new.

And just because you never heard something, doesn't mean it isn't true or correct. There's millions of things that both you and me, or anyone else for that matter, has never heard about. Should we then say that none of those things are existent or true? Probably not.

Well, we're never going to see eye to eye if you're not willing to at the very least consider that your own view might be faulty, you're just digging in your heels regardless of what I, or any of the other people you tagged, are saying.

So, no offense, but I find this tedious and useless, so I'm out. I genuinely wish you a nice day, but I'm done with this discussion.

@ThanosReXXX That's a long list of games; but how many would the wider audience consider to be 'classic'? That's the question being asked.

With the NES and Super NES, the opposite was actually true and some fans were unhappy with how other games were not included (for a variety of reasons). This demonstrates the breadth of content on those systems, and the appeal they had in different regions.

The N64 has a sizeable library of games - no-one is denying this - but the quality of the content and how regions perceive that quality differ drastically. These have to be titles that borderline household names, that a customer can instantly recognise. It would be straightforward to roll off 10-15 games of this calibre, but after this I believe that any N64 player of that day and age would struggle.

And as I previously mentioned, licensing would be a major stumbling block. The controllers, which are over-designed anyway, would have to be redesigned to make them simpler to manufacture, which then deters from the authenticity of the device.

I should also point out that I am not trying to be cynical. My first computer was a BBC Micro, which had a Winchester floppy disk drive. The N64 was borderline state of the art at the time and I have fond memories of it, but I simply being realistic in what actions Nintendo will take. A GBA Classic is far more likely, because that would incorporate GB, GBC and GBA games in one package. It also differs itself from the previous two Classic products in a positive way.

RE: PS1, I refer to the quality of the gameplay. The truth is, the PS1 had an extremely commendable library of 3D games. Inferior graphics do not hamper this.

@Emperor-Palpsy "With the NES and Super NES, the opposite was actually true and some fans were unhappy with how other games were not included"

That's true. I never managed to get a NES Mini, but I did manage to get a SNES Mini, and not all the games on there are on my favorites list. But I simply hacked the console and added all the games I wanted on there.

And that was also the point of my list. It started because someone said that there wouldn't be many good or decent games left if you took out the ones that Rare made, but even Nintendo's games alone, make for a pretty decent list already, so that would probably be good for 20 - 22 games already.

And the rest of that list was intended to show that there will surely be something there for everyone.

We all have different tastes, after all, so what one person might consider as bad, is a great game to somebody else, or at the very least a very fond memory.

Fair point on the PS1, but then it would also be fair not to judge the N64 based upon it's crude graphics, like so many people are doing, because the gameplay of quite a few titles, especially Nintendo's own, is still solid today.

And personal favorites of mine Wave Race and 1080 Snowboarding are also still perfectly playable with quite serviceable physics as well.

I think the Classic Edition consoles were meant to be a fun novelty item and a chance to cash in on the retro gaming trend. Nintendo's original business plan was not to make them a serious alternative to the Virtual Console on the Switch. That's why the NES Classic Edition had such limited stock, which Nintendo handled very badly. Unless they changed their minds after seeing how popular they are.

If they make one, it will be more expensive, say $120-$150. Most of that is the controller, the rest would be license fees. I don't think it would succeed with just first-party titles. I would also expect there to be only one controller included with additional controllers at ~$30 each?

In the end, it will probably be best to just to get a GC controller for N64 titles on the Wii or Wii U. It would be nice if someone made an N64 controller to plug in Wii remotes but I don't see the market. They only reason why the GC adapters and controllers for the Wii-U were even made was for Smash Bros. Otherwise, we would not have had them.

I would buy an N64 Classic but I doubt it will happen. I got my SNES Classic and I love it and I hope to snag a second run NES Classic.