The past few months has brought a steady stream of good news for Nintendo Switch owners. For fans of the eShop it's been a terrific period, with lots of varied and talented developers confirming their games for the hardware. We've also - gradually - seen an increase in third-party support from the big players in the retail scene, and that's what we're addressing today.
After the Wii U was dropped by most major publishers after around 18 months of its life, it's satisfying to be back in a position where Nintendo's latest hardware is gaining support. The powerful portable / home console hybrid has achieved its most important goal in its first half year - a stong start in terms of sales. In fact all that's held it back, particularly in territories like Japan and North America, has been logistics and manufacturing. The big N has struggled to meet demand, though has been making encouraging noises about ramping up manufacturing; restocks have been improving, too. The Switch is hot right now, getting favourable coverage in the broader media (and not just dedicated gaming sites) and also on social media. It's a cool little device, and plenty of people are interested in it.
Nintendo, undoubtedly, will try to capitalise as much as possible, which will mean trying to get as many units as it can onto store shelves. Yet in some ways the well-earned buzz clashes with the stark reality; right now - as of 30th June - Nintendo's official figure for hardware sales is 4.7 million units, now it may be somewhere between 6 and 8 million, depending on restocks. Forget the fact it'll hit the Wii U lifetime sales as quickly as Nintendo can manufacture the systems - we're in the early days and have a small-ish userbase. Nintendo's financial year estimate was still 10 million as of 30th June; that'll likely climb if manufacturing picks up, but it's a reminder that we're in the early days and any developer bringing games to the system is gambling on two things - a high adoption rate from early buyers, and 'evergreen' potential.
That's how it is for all systems in their first year, of course, but coming back to retail third-parties the situation is more complicated for Switch. Outside of unique titles on the 3DS, a lot of these publishers haven't even attempted to sell to a Nintendo audience in a big way for 3-4 years, maybe even longer. People online like to criticise these publishers for not 'backing' Switch, but a bit of realism helps - these companies are gambling on a new system when its predecessor (in some cases) burned them quite badly. Add to that the fact Nintendo produces concept-based hardware that makes ports quite challenging to produce, and it's not so simple as 'lazy third-party publishers are naughty'. Some of them are, no doubt, but let's not tar the whole lot with the same brush.
Yet some big companies are stepping up with Switch, which is the encouraging thing. Plenty hold a grudge against Ubisoft, but it's delivered the excellent Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, while Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition is a pleasant option. Let's not forget, either, that the company put Switch up first in its big E3 reveal of Starlink: Battle for Atlas, a game that looks like an enticing fit for the Nintendo audience. Then there are the tasty recent announcements. L.A. Noire raised eyebrows and will have Switch-exclusive controls, and Bethesda turned heads recently with DOOM and Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus. The latter two from Bethesda are bonafide current-gen big hitters, and they'll be playable on a portable. DOOM on a portable, what a delicious phrase.
It's a really good time, then, with others like Rocket League also on the way. Yet we're also seeing occasional retail releases of the risk averse and sloppy kind - let's peg NBA 2K18 with that label. On the one hand it's impressive to get that on the Switch, but it's not there yet; we had a good debate in our team on how to score it, or not as the case was. We've set a timed deadline (albeit loosely) for an update fix before we slap a score on, but our review certainly didn't recommend a purchase - far from it, as we were rather damning of what it has to offer at launch.
That naturally makes us nervous about titles like FIFA 18 and WWE 2K18; will they be really solid 'custom' versions, or buggy messes?
It's a minefield then, which is unsurprising. Yet with recent reveals we've seen borderline over-confidence from some Switch fans about third-party prospects; on social media, YouTube and comments sections we've seen language like "third-parties have no excuses now" and "I want all the games", and we think a bit of context and sanity is needed. The Switch could have some enticing multi-platform games in the future, and if sales momentum remains high for the hardware publishers may even consider some left-field exclusives. But don't start placing your bets on all the biggest triple-A multiplatform games of 2018 and beyond rushing to Switch.
Some will throw Wolfenstein II at us now, but let's throw a phrase back - id Software. This team and their id Tech 6 engine are sensational, and DOOM is an example. It is gorgeous and mostly 60fps on PS4 and Xbox One, when many major games on those systems struggle to hit a solid 30; when playing DOOM on PC the scalability to support humble rigs is seriously impressive. It's that fantastic technology that is helping bring the likes of DOOM and Wolfenstein II to the Switch, along with the seemingly talented Switch specialists at Panic Button.
Digital Foundry addressed this and did an intriguing video where they built a PC to mimic a Switch, a slightly inelegant but interesting idea. It demonstrated the sort of compromise required, and also showed how games using other engines toil terribly. As DF admitted the testing wasn't perfect - for one thing console development allows talented teams to get 'close to the metal' and extract every ounce of performance, whereas a PC gets distracted more by background tasks. In other words, you can conceivably do more with a Switch than a PC build clocking similar numbers.
Yet still, there's another factor. Every Switch release has to support its portable mode, even if an Indie game like VOEZ is portable only. When docked the Switch works harder because it has a solid power supply, but undocked the clock speeds are reduced in the interest of efficiency. In theory it helps that the handheld only goes up to 720p because of the screen, but the discrepancy between docked and portable resources is a factor. Sometimes the docked performance is only a little better - games like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle are 900p docked, and other times there's a bigger difference. At launch LEGO City: Undercover ran pretty well docked but was rather messy on the portable. Conversely, some games don't quite nail the extra speed available docked and mess up the balance in boosting resolution, making games run better in portable mode. Mostly developers make it work, but any Switch game review needs to test a game in both configurations in case there's a difference.
The overall picture seems to result in the Switch, even docked, not quite supporting all modern engines to make porting seamless, and then developers need to cater to the portable performance and perhaps prioritise that area. That may explain why the likes of Bethesda and EA continually focus on their upcoming games as ultimate portable experiences; EA focused on that angle with its FIFA marketing, and Bethesda showcased DOOM that way to the press, focused on tabletop / handheld demonstrations.
Take all of this together, and it's over-optimistic to simply expect a golden future of major games making their way to Switch without hiccups - E3 should have taught us that. What we can hope for, provided the Switch maintains its excellent momentum, is cleverly targeted ports with some exclusive features, and in the longer term maybe more unique releases as publishers take more of a financial punt on Switch projects. Yet the Switch hardware has its limits, and with developers chasing the gravy train on PS4 / PS4 Pro / Xbox One / Xbox One S that drifts towards optional 4K and visual splendour, not all games will work on Nintendo's hardware. Not all engines are as adaptable as id Tech 6, and no matter how talented the Switch porting houses are - that are making some of these third-party games possible - there will always be steps that are too far.
And you know what? That has to be ok. Besides, the Switch has a lot more going for it than this specific space. It has Nintendo games, first and foremost, and then particular development partners eager to work with Nintendo on specific types of Switch-exclusive games. It has a thriving eShop scene, and the potential for lots of unique and fascinating titles to download. Plus it has the system's fundamental positives - intuitive multiplayer, the ability to share games with friends and family wherever you go, portable and TV play; you know, that Switch Life.
Add a select range of tasty current-gen multiplatform games to that mix, and we have a system that could be a huge success in the coming years for Nintendo.
Comments 151
I think the article notes what the difference between the Wii U and the switch is when they note that the 3DS has unique titles made by third parties just for that system.
Nintendo handhelds get support.
I love how Switch is doing well!
If they nail FIFA and WWE this year, third parties are here to stay. Just get out there and buy them.
I can't say I'm terribly bothered. I don't buy Nintendo to play big name super fancy games. It's always been that way.
If I want to play 100 car and sport games I'll buy either a PS4, an Xbox One or a PC. But, I can only play Nintendo on Nintendo.
finally, everyone was blaming EA about Fifa and not porting frostbite, while 2K really failed porting NBA . In the end, i'm pretty sure that we'll be more than happy with a Fifa running at 1080p@60 !
Lets be realistic indeed. After all these months we still dont now what we really can expect from the Switch. Yes some 3rd party games are slightly downgraded but remember that a lot of these games werent made with the switch in consideration(if thats a word, im dutch) so to see what the Switch really can do is still the question and that its rawpower is weaker then other console doesnt say anything.
Right now we are seeing some semi-rushed results from teams that aren't that used to the Switch hardware. NBA 2k18 was on a hard deadline, and they chose to release it at the same time (in digital form) instead of pushing it back. We are seeing a lot of releases try and capitalize on the excitement the device is inspiring, even if the developers in question didn't really expect the level of interest from consumers.
I think next year will see games being released from third parties in more stable forms than we are seeing right now.
An honest and fair article, and a pretty accurate assessment of the current and likely future situation imo.
Good article once again NL, I love this site!
Slightly related and possibly weird question: what engine does Nintendo use? Does it have a name?
Let's be realistic . . . a lot of us are Nintendo gamers because we really are not interested in big franchise sports sims, violent FPS and other staples of the PS4/XBox experience. I'm not against these coming to the Switch (on the contrary), but will not be waiting with cash in fist for many AAA titles even if they are ported to perfection.
Great read
It would be funny if Switch multiplats outsell the XBOX One versions. It might convince some publishers to rethink their priorities in regards to the current console market.
nintendo sold 2.8 million by End of March - they said another 10 million in the 2018 Fiscal year - this is likely to be much higher
I'd say another 5 million total by end of March - 17 -18 Million
Bwuh? What's with the baseless fearmongering in this article? Why not just buy and enjoy what's good (and there's a crap ton), don't buy what's not so good?
As much as I agree with the article and the fact not all triple A games would work on the switch, there a some glaring omissions of ports that should be on switch and Don't seem to be even planned as with the odd choices coming from Capcom, I applaud what they've announced but can see no logic in not releasing other games that are a no brainer for release on switch.
@yuwarite It would be funny if Developers realise they didn't need to invest the extra money into 4k when 1080 60fps is perfect!
Honestly, how many games can we all play, anyway? My wishlist on the eShop is already groaning, and the Switch has only been around six months. There seems to be a really good Nindie every week or so on average (not even including the Neo Geo ports), plus at least one top-class first-party effort a month. I'd rather have one or two good third-party efforts a month than a load of shovelware. The Bethesda support is great. Bamco seems to be well on board. Square Enix and Ubisoft are pulling out the stops. EA is giving it a shot. Capcom, well, it's definitely getting there. And we still have Atlus and Falcom to come. We're going to be fine.
Oh God...they are doomed aren't they. I should have known not to get carried away. I'm gonna stop celebrating game announcements. Heck, no point reading this website anymore. The last thing anyone needs right now is to be a new adopter to the Switch and find a community really excited for the system. So stop it guys. (heheh)
@cfgk24 nah developers want new technology to create bigger and better games.
I always want to see developers be giving the tools to create games.
These guys are so funny they play 2k18 on switch having no experience with 2k at all. Its always a buggy mess on release, they havent got that right, but thats on ALL platforms not just the switch.My career in handheld and the audio stuttering on occasion will be patched soon enough as always. So after playing 2k18 you segway yourselves onto an article like this. Be proper gaming journalists please.
Always enjoy a well rounded perspective. Thanks for this one
All I hope is that this initial batch sells well enough on Switch that less graphically demanding multiplats of the future (think South Park or Ni No Kuni) start coming out on the Switch as a default. I can certainly understand if a company doesn't want to bother downscaling an uber-realistic game to fit Nintendo's hybrid machine, but there are plenty of interesting games that would offer only minimal hassle to be ported.
As for me, I'm extremely excited for Skyrim and L.A. Noire. I hope those are only the beginning of my AAA third party collection on the console.
Depending on how well DOOM and Wolfenstein run on the Switch. Bethesda should be the company every other Switch port is compared to. In terms of quality and the date the game was released on other consoles.
@yuwarite I suspect there is a high probability of this happening.
@Davel33123 agreed. The PS4 and Xbox generation invented the the concept of the "day one patch". We ought to get use to broken games at luanch if more third parties join the switch party. People should not be surprised.
So basically, my PS4 will still be a better place for me to enjoy the AAA third party games I like instead of a Switch. At least the Switch will slowly become more desirable for me once more Nintendo exclusives are released.
Watch_Dogs 2 please Ubi.
Cheer up misery guts!
You said let's be realistic, ok lets.
For starters you go right in with the 18mo window of being dropped on the WiiU. There's little of the WiiU you can compare though and some stuff can. It may have taken 18mo to get dropped, but look at how it started. It was snubbed before it came out and ended up with a pile of 1-3 year old shoddy ports with some serious issues in some. While the Switch is getting some year old (and less) ports of popular stuff, they're not shoddy or awful outside of NBA2K16 which sucks on everything. And Switch is coming off the WiiU fail so it's more obvious to be a little leery vs coming off the Wii to Wii U.
Wii U took 5 years to get to the crap sales it did including 2 shut downs of the production lines because no one wanted it. Switch has had no shut downs and instead have had line openings and expansions twice. The sales are already around/better half the WiiU lifetime in 5 mo what WiiU did in 5 years! Again, no parallel there either.
Major players ignored the Wii entirely such as Bethesda who just did some janky kits joust cartoon game. This time they're being very forward saying relationship and lots more to come and we get 3 games out of them already (Skyrim, DOOM, and Wolfenstein 2.) Them aside those who were and weren't with them before on WiiU are bringing up some A game material. Rockstar would never put a GTA perspective title on their hardware — now LA Noire remaster. Tecmo Koei is shaping up nicely. Capcom is bringing some really solid releases and have already as are/have Konami and Namco-Bandai which are also key old guard companies.
Yes there are some old ports, even from the WiiU because it got screwed, but hey why not when few got in on that audience. You're throwing a lot of speculative worried 'will they suck' comments about the other sports games after NBA2K was fouled up across the board. I don't see a parallel there as it wasn't just the Switch version that blew.
This article I think would have made more sense after a year on the market, not five months.
@Davel33123 yeah I don't understand why they are making out it's a switch problem only. All versions have some serious bugs
@Davel33123 @kobashi100 Because they review the product given to them. They review the game as it is on Switch. At no point should they have to look at another version of a game to determine if its "okay" at which point Id say a game needing fixing effective immediately should not be "nornal"
such a wet behind the ears article.
This article represents a rather pessimistic view (like it is written from that Irish guy who always complains) and not a realistic one. Switch can have lots more AAA games and NBA is a very good port (and not what the Nintendo Life reviewer claims).
i do hope, that FIFA 18 is better than NBA 2k18.
to be honest, i own a PS4, a Gaming PC, and a Dead Xbox One. (long story). i got my Third Parties grub on these.
i didnt expect a quite big third party support for the Switch (when it was called the NX at the time.) but, im glad that im wrong. still picky on what third parties i'll get on the switch. but Doom and fifa seem like a great start.
There is a touch of anxiety in offering NBA2K's bugs as a cause to be worried for Fifa18.
I hope 3rd party keeps trying year after year for example nba2k. The first year will never live up to the other systems but if 2k makes nba19 I’m assuming it will be leaps and bounds better since the framework is laid out they will have a whole year to work out the bugs.
We also need nintendo to stick with the switch framework going forward. No new gimmicks for whatever the next system is. They just need to just make a switch pro 2.0 and find a way to cram in beefier hardware to support the next gen games.
I think most developers are thinking this way as well and when the capibility is there to port stuff easily Nintendo will be the #1 system on the market.... it kinda is already... it’s just so early. All developers see it’s amazing potential and will be ready.
I feel that Nintendo will finally get the third party support they needed since the Gamecube days. The Switch is doing Nintendo favors
I for one am excited, the Switch is proving to be much more capable then perhaps we thought, especially in the hands of good developers. Doom looks good on Switch from the videos I've seen, yes on the TV it won't match the others but will I care when I'm playing on my lunch break at work? If the Bethesda titles all run (and sell) well we may see others take notice, Rockstar are already testing the waters and let's not forget that GTAV started on less capable hardware then Switch. Also whilst NBA is disappointing at the moment at least Fifa looks promising.
The problem is these days is that all this extra power seems to be wasted chasing pixel counts and resulted in the smallest visual jump from PS3/360 to current gen. Nintendo have already proving what can be done with Switch and seems more likely then it's competitors to hit that magical 60 fps, with the upcoming Mario doing just that and while looking at least as good as any comparable game on PS4. For me the end of this year is going to be great on Switch and I cannot wait
Realistic? What? I don't understand, as I've never seen that word before. Instead I am just going to sit here and criticize third party companies for not bringing their games to the Switch, and when they do I'll complain that the Switch isn't powerful enough for the games.
I think the article makes sense...sure things are looking up, Bute we have to remain realistic:
-The cartridge problem, with bigger cards requiring more money and because of that, higher prices for the userbase or otherwise, less profits for the publisher, which ends up in higher sales needed to determine if the game becomes a hit or a bomb.
-Related to the previous one, games today are far too big, and get used to requiring space like 5 GB for saving, 9 GB for multiplayer, and God knows how many GB for a piece of your average multiplatform update. Not a problem in other consoles, but a major nuisance for the average Switch user.
-Say the game is ultracompressed, in an attempt to counter the previous two issues (i.e. Rayman Legends) then you get compressed graphic assets and longer loading times in response, all the more of a problem in a portable in which the power time is so limited as this one.
-And even if all those elements weren't an inherent unavoidable problem, you still have a machine that just plainly is not as powerful as the other two systems.
But hey...cheer up, at least the number of buttons is the same this time.
@cfgk24 I agree. Honestly I can’t really see the difference between 1080 and 4K. I don’t even have a 4K tv so 1080 is just fine with me.
Why? I don't get it? This article is a whole lot of
Switch is doing well. Despite everything - it's under-powered by current gen home console standards, too expensive for a handheld (it's like the worst of both worlds), no apps, weird voice chat, no VC - it's still doing pretty well. And Mario is coming. Can't we just enjoy ourselves for 15 minutes before reality sets in?
Here's reality - modern console video-gaming is a broken dysfunctional mess, has been for years now. And its' not just gamers that think that, everyone thinks that.
https://www.polygon.com/2014/11/24/7277363/broken-video-games-are-the-new-norm-what-developers-need-to-do-to-fix
https://www.engadget.com/2014/11/24/broken-video-games/
https://gamerant.com/broken-games-launch-batman-halo-diablo-155/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2016/02/16/video-games-are-broken-reviews-are-broken-and-things-have-to-change/#643a6f60419f
So let's nto worry about what may or may not come. Nitneod consoles have never been the place for great 3rd party support. Anything Switch gets is a humongous improvement over Wii U, even if the graphics and other components aren't comparable to PS4 and X1. Look at Wii U, how many games did it get that were missing DLC of some type?
Let's just be happy with what we got for a bit and keep our fingers cross. It can't possibly be as bad as Wii U, so we have that going for us, regardless of what happens next. It's good times, why worry now?
I think Switch will continue to do well and I believe we'll have full 3rd party support.
Switch is the future of console and handheld gaming, chaps. No point denying that.
Erm... have the majority of people passing comment on NBA 2K18 even played it? And have they campared it to the XBox/PS4 versions?
I think there's a huge gulf between between perception and reality here. And it's certainly not a lazy port.
@crimsontadpoles
Of course, that's what that console is built for. It's a third-party machine- Switch will never be a better place to game AAA on the TV. That should go without saying.
The thing is, a lot of people do care about portability (almost 100 million people bought a handheld for the 3DS/Vita generation) and not everyone cares for most of the games on other consoles. Myself included. Not that there aren't a lot of games I like (I have quite the sizable Xbox One and PS4 collection after all) but very few of them would I want to play more then games on Switch. I think aside from Monster Hunter World, Biomutant, Ni No Kuni 2 and Shadow of the Colossus (and eventually Ori and the Will of the Wisp on X1) I can't think of any games I would rather play than Zelda, Arms, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Splatoon 2, Monster Hunter XX, Mario Rabbids, Fire Emblem Warriors, Ultra Street Fighter II, Mario Odyssey, No More Heroes, Project Octopath Traveller, Xenoblade 2, Kirby Star Allies, Pokémon Switch, Metroid Prime 4, Fire Emblem Switch, Pokken Tournament DX, Yoshi, and the whole host of great indies (Steamworld Dig 2 is pure gold, could pass as a 1st party game).
The 3rd party games, while they may be more enjoyable on my PS4 Pro or X1X for TV play, are exponentially more appealing when I know I can play them anywhere. So games like Skyrim, DOOM, Wolfenstein 2, LA Noire, Dragonball Xenoverse 2, Rocket League, RIME, Resident Evil Revelations 1/2, Dragon Quest Builders 1/2, Dragon Quest XI, etc... suddenly become a priority when I likely wouldn't have ever bothered to play on my PS4/X1. In fact, I own half those on my other consoles, and I've only bothered to play an hour of Skyrim, couple hours of Dragon Quest Builders, and a bit of Rocket League.
Heck, I'm even buying sports games like NBA 2k18 and FIFA 18 on Switch and I never buy sports games! It's just that appeal of setting up tabletop and playing with a coworker. It's totally rad.
Truth be told, outside of Indies, there are few games on the other consoles I want to play that aren't platform exclusives.
I am an older gamer and find little joy in violence, so the 'M' rated games on the other consoles don't interest me.
I'm happy for the console to be successful, but don't care for most 3rd party games.
I do like sport games NOT made by EA. NBA2K18 is a welcome addition.
@GrailUK ha. Well, I think you and I are looking forward to the same thing.....SMB!
I most certainly won't get carried away.
NBA2K18 has a 5/10 user rating on Steam. As worse as No Mans Sky at release.
That is saying something! Its definitely not just the Switch version that has issues!
NBA2K18 is just a rushed buggy mess on all platforms.
At least I did not buy a Switch to play Doom or Wolfenstein on it (of course I shall buy them but they are not my reason for buying switch). I bought it to play some Japanese third or first party hames like Project Octopath or Xenoblade.
North American Switch stock seems moderate. In stock at Walmart, Amazon, and Bestbuy for online purchase in Canada. (Grey only) Mostly out of stock in stores.
Available online in the US (Amazon, Walmart) but at scalping prices in the middle of the $300 -$400 range. In stock at BestBuy at regular price.
The stock situation is definitely improving but I’m a little weary of the holiday season.
@JaxonH "almost 100 million people bought a handheld for the 3DS/Vita generation"
My wife and I were looking at the handheld console sales this morning - I was telling her about our argument over Switch - dock or no dock - and why I have 485 unread emails in my inbox - and even I was impressed by how many handheld consoles Nintnedo has sold. Home consoles seem to go up and down, but man, Gameboy/Color over 120m, GBA 80m, DS over 150m, 3DS 60m. So that's 4 generations of consoles, 30 years straight, over 60m each gen. That's no fluke, no floundering, just flat out success.
So once Nintendo decides to start selling the Switch as a handheld - and they will, like it or not - it's almost guaranteed to sell. And sell well. Unless there's a 3DS successor that isn't a Switch, and as much as I think Ntinedo is run by apes at times, even those apes can't be that insane to start another subset of games on different hardware. That's what DeNa are for, games on mobile. New 2DS XL is the 3DS successor, that system has a few years left. Maybe by then Nvidia will have "Switch 2" chips ready for a New Switch and current Switch chips will be cheap enough for a $129 kids toy for Style Fashion Boutique.
But unlike N64, Gamecube and Wii U, Nintendo has never failed w/ a portable. Even the $249 "who needs a handheld when we have smartphones" 3DS. VB doesn't count, it needed a table, and it has it's picture in the dictionary next to gimmick. If they make a 3DS successor the whole company deserves to fail for being stupid.
Okami HD is what I’m wanting to see on Switch. Played it to death but I love that game. Also hoping for Katamari, but that seems unlikely as it’s always been on PS hardware (right?).
@JaxonH At the end of the day it's just a matter of personal preference. Portability is a very minor factor for my needs, so I'll just grab the version of the game with the best graphics. If someone wants to play a game while out and about, then the Switch version might be best for them.
I know that I've said before that it would be great if the Switch had more AAA 3rd party titles, but realistically I'd be unlikely to buy many of them on a Switch when I can play them on PS4 instead. But having that option available would be great for lots of other people, judging by how excited people are getting about a portable Skyrim or Doom or Wolfenstein 2.
It's always the exclusive titles that brings me back to Nintendo. I love my 3DS due to it having Pokemon, Professor Layton, Etrian Odyssey, Animal Crossing, and many other great games. Portability won't sell me on getting a Switch, but I'm bound to love it once the game library is a bit bigger.
Great article!
@olrodlegacy That's the spirit! If you have a passing interest in these games go out and buy them on the Switch.
DOOM and Skyrim, plus RE games are just the news I needed to make me buying a Switch before X-mas. Definitely buying one on Black Friday.
Okiday am I the only one worried about this one fact: what are Ninty going to release next year? And for that matter the following year?... They have given us Zelda, Mario, MK8, Xeno 2, ARMS, splatoon 2, Mario rabbids, fire emblem and some of these 3rd parties... That's all in the first 9 months! There better be a new F-ZERO on the way as well as a new Starfox, maybe a 2d Metroid? ... News on smash 5, MK9? ... I'm still holding out hope for a Geist 2! And that sadness for the Wii lol
I tend to buy Nintendo and other Japanese published games, or games that try to mimic Nintendo with gameplay, humour, and colour- including indies. If I get these sort of games (Capcom, Platinum, Namco, Sega) from 3rd parties I'm going to be happy.
Personally I'm not fussed for Doom, Fifa, and the Cods and Assassins Creeds on my Switch, but I know that having another demographic playing on the system will help keep Nintendo and the Switch going. Plus there could be something like Skyrim that might tempt me (not sure yet). Saying that, quality of product (e.g: it isn't buggy and crashes all the time, doesn't need endless micro transactions, is at a framerate that doesn't make me vomit) will be the deciding factor for me in any purchase. If Nintendo can make it work, then I expect no less from another triple A company.
The thing is, I own a PC which can run all games available on Steam. I've got a Switch for the Nintendo games and a few Indies I like to play on the go.
So will I buy Doom and Wolfenstein 2 on the Switch? Probably not. Just because I don't see a reason to. Am I excited for Doom and Wolfenstein 2 on the Switch? Hell yeah! I want Nintendo fans who don't own a second gaming system to experience third party too. Or fans who already own the game and are going to buy it for its portability.
I can't wait to see which third party (exclusive?) games are coming to the Switch and which will not. Maybe there are some games out there I will double dip for.
I bought 2 Switches no matter how much 3rd party support there would/will be, but I got really excited when I saw how many RPGs were presented in the debut. I'm hoping to see more in the future.
I want all the games!! Ok, realistically there is a good amount of games I would like to come to the system from 3rds. I don't see Battlefield or anything like that coming but we can still get some AAA morsels to tie us over. I'm already so happy with w hats coming and been announced.
Games like Fifa, Call of Duty and Nba will never sell as good at Switch as in PS4. On the other hand new Dragon Quest in 3ds outsold PS4 version. So Square Enix should bring new FF and DQ to Switch.
@rjejr Not expensive for an handheld at all. Second, Nintendo was a place where you could get third party games in the past, so saying never is not true.
@ThomasBW84 I really liked that article and would like to read more of the same kind on NL: It's realistic yet neither pessimistic nor overly enthusiastic.
@dimi They don't have to sell as well as on PS4; they have to sell well enough to make the port profitable.
Not a bad article, but I feel it's missing one particular point: software sales.
For third support to continue, let alone grow/expand, the currently announced upcoming titles need to actually sell. So far most of the games have seen success, which is good, but it needs to continue.
Right now the top 7 spots on the US eShop chart are all third party/indie, with NBA 2K18 at #1.
Your bit about 2K seems like fear mongering though. Those issues exist on the other platforms. It's not a bad port at all - it's a good port... of a broken game.
@rjejr I see Switch as the true 3ds successor not the 2ds. There won't be a 3DS successor that isn't a Switch. Only problem with Switch is that it is 2x the price of 3ds/DS/GBA/GBC
So far so good. I think the pace of games hitting Switch is blowing Wii U's doors off. Almost every single day there's new Switch game announcements! The eshop is really kicking in now- Add the Nintendo ACA classics coming & the Hamster Neo Geo train still chugging along! 3rd party surprises here and there will suffice and I agree with the article- were just NOT going to see everything for PS4/Xbox cross over to Switch. For me that's no biggie as I have my Switch docked right between my PS4 and my One. Now....for the 100th time if they can just get that virtual console off the ground!! 😊
Of course I need some 3rd party & Indie games for my Switch. 1st party games are still my Main priority for my Nintendo machines.
But, Damn... I also need some 3rd party and Indie games for my PS4 due to PS4 Exclusive / Not released on Switch yet so far (World of Final Fantasy, FF X/X-2 HD, FF XII The Zodiac Age, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 + 2.5 HD, The Sims 4, Yonder: The Cloud Catcher Chronicles).
Well, right now i'm a bit softer to PS4 after playing Portal Knights every Sunday by borrowing PS4 from my Game Shop owner, but still..... there are some bitterness / negativity from me about PS4. At the end, I will ended up by owning both Nintendo Switch for my Primary Gaming and PS4 as Secondary Gaming. Guess I have 9 titles of PS4 games on my list right now, thanks to Yonder: The Cloud Catcher Chronicles that caught my attention for No Violence & 100% Kid Friendly Games.
I don't think people really expect everything to come to Switch. Still, now that Nintendo revealed some major, albeit one is old, current-gen games coming from Bethesda, that changed some expectations. You're kidding yourself if you don't think this makes some other publishers look bad. If nothing else, it provides the appearance that publishers who weren't putting games on Switch because of power don't have an excuse. Yes, you note in the article that DOOM has an engine that can scale well, but Switch supports UE4, which is also an engine that scales fairly well. Not expecting people to want at least a little bit more at this point is a little silly.
@alasdair91 if you "buy Nintendo to play Nintendo", you're part of the problem. The Switch, like any other console needs strong 3rd party support that sells. If it doesn't, it won't be there. If the 3rd parties leave, another WiiU situation happens. And I don't think that that would be good for them as a company at all.
I'm pretty happy with the Switch. The line up so far is pretty strong and there's quite a lot in the pipeline for now. I get as many 3rd party games as possible when I'm interested to show those companies that I want that. And they only see it if I do it with my wallet. So, yeah. I will get Skyrim even though I have that for PS3 (but never finished), I will get Doom even though it looks not as good, I'll maybe get a sports game even though I tend to drop them fast, I will get LA Noire even though it's a bit older. You get the idea. Our job is to use our wallets to show 3rd parties that we want their games. And we want good versions of their games. So if we're interested we need to buy those games new (not pre owned). We need to buy them as close to launch as possible. And we need to buy them at the original price. Then they'll come back and bring even more games with them. And maybe some day we'll get a bunch of exclusives in the vein of Mario + Rabbids.
I think, for the most part, most of us do have realistic expectations. We know, in terms of power in comparison to the XB1 and PS4 what the Switch is up against. Doesn't mean we can't speculate, discuss or even reach out to developers and at least ask whether or not the Switch is part of the discussion. I also don't think it hurts to be unabashedly excited for this console. Sure, you can point out the shovelware of the Wii and the overall failure that was the Wii U (which I loved, don't get me wrong). But I am excited as Switch owner. It's hard not to be with all the possibilities it holds.
The Switch platform represents an opportunity for talented developers to show their skills. It's software over hardware, how far can they push it? Who can do the impossible? I think over the next few years we will see some amazing games running on this portable system, games that shouldn't be running on a battery operated device.
It's like those 64k demos from Northern Europe. Highly optimised games that do the impossible, pushing the hardware to it's limit using genius coding. It's a triumph of creativity (software) over limitation (hardware).
Talk about being pessimistic. It is hard to compare the Switch to the WiiU for many reasons. Most have been stated already, so I will not repeat those. Another (that I haven't seen mentioned yet) is that with the WiiU's release, there was confusion because there were people who just did not realize it was a new system at all. They thought it was just an add-on, so passed over it, because they were casual players for the most part and most likely wouldn't have kept track on what is new or what-not.
As for the games themselves. For starters, NBA 2k..... It is 2K games! Personally, I have not played a single release from them that I have liked and/or was not buggy in some way. But for them, hopefully they can get the kinks out for future releases. If a game is buggy, it is not the systems fault, but rather on the developers. Pinning future releases on a single games success has always been a pathetic excuse to not want to do anything anymore.
The Switch does have a future, but realistically it comes down to the games that gets released on it. But for those games to succeed, the developers need to step up their game to make sure their releases are ready, and not rushed out like the 2K game seems to be. Get out of the "Day 1 Patch" mindset (to the Dev's)! The Switch can be a goldmine if it is utilized correctly for their releases. Inaction by their "wait and see" approaches actually hinder more than it helps.
The Wii U was unfortunately dropped by most 3rd party publishers far sooner than 18 months into its life. Some never even tried and others made token efforts.
Sales will dictate 3rd party support. Several companies have launched 3rd party games or are set to launch the games. In 6 months those companies will know how the games sold and will determine what they will do next.
I'm interested to know how Mario+Rabbids has done in its first month.
It's too late for me, I'm already carried away
Not a big deal for me. I already own a PS4 and a PC and play the big AAA multiplatform games on those, although the portability of the Switch is making me consider double-dipping on games I already own for my other platforms (Doom especially).
I think it would be better to see more exclusive third party titles (like what Ubisoft did with the excellent Mario + Rabbids or all the JRPG love the 3DS had) as opposed to just ports. If not, oh well, the system is worth it for me just for Nintendo's unbeatable first party titles.
Lets be realistic - Nintendo sell 10 million plus Nintendo Switch consoles so far and many more in the next 6 months they can't even keep up with with demand in some parts of the world. This user base talks to developers, hard cash potential, this alone will drive new software from Third Parties, 2K took a risk to port the whole game lets applaud them and allow them to tweak improvements personally I am enjoying the game and can't wait for FIFA, DOOM and Wolfenstein II plus many others - lets enjoy the experience Switch is a success and will only et better
Under a week until we finally get another FIFA on a Nintendo console. Looking forward to it, but I wonder how it will be with online matches, the FUT marked and other things that need quite a large userbase to feel like the experience on other consoles. My experiences with third party games on Nintendo consoles and online play is that it dies off fast :/ It seem the development team has made a good effort with this game, in a different and hopefully better way than 2K, so I hope we will support it and EA to continue supporting the Switch!
It's history all over some SNES games ran better than Megadrive blar blar blar what's important is we get the games people want when I play Doom on switch I will not care or try to find what graphic is less resolution I will just enjoy the game given it runs well and that's the point all through console history Spectrum games were mainly yellow&black Commador had more colour but which sold more it didn't matter because you had the latest shooter on your system, I feel we are forgetting (unlike Nintendo) we are gamers yes graphics matter but if you have only a Switch you will enjoy the game you send your hard earned on. Game On
I’ll use my Switch for Nintendo exclusives, indies, and games were local multiplayer is the main selling point. For everything else, I’ve got my PS4.
@MsgBoardGamer Nail on head. The only reason third parties are in the position they are today is due to people like Sony and Microsoft throwing money their way left right and centre to bolster their machines.
@rjejr
"If they make a 3DS successor the whole company deserves to fail for being stupid"
Nail on the head. Switch has to be Nintendo's only machine going forward.
The 3DS proves that it's not all about graphics! I'm sure a lot of people would be happy with similar support and games to the 3DS and Wii U on the Switch. We don't need all the AAA games that are hitting PS4 and XBOX but is nice to get some even if they are scaled down.
@bluedogrulez can't agree more. Im buying switch mostly for rpg. but this fps and sport games if it is good I'll support them too.
@rjejr I daresay that the Switch's third-party support is better than it has been in quite some time though, and I'm not even someone who plays these games portable! The more great games that otherwise would've been missed, due to whatever reason, the better it is for people that use their Switch home-console, as that's what they can get from the machine, as opposed to being handheld being the all-great definer here.
But to get back to the topic at hand, I don't have any expectations, so I'll be content with what comes my way and is a game I'd like
I want Dark Souls on the switch
I don't care which one.
"But to get back to the topic at hand, I don't have any expectations, so I'll be content with what comes my way and is a game I'd like "
I reckon that's the right attitude, especially for anyone who's a Nintendo-only gamer.
Third-party support is never going to be equivalent to PS4 for two simple reasons: -
1) Anyone who wants Western AAA games has one of the other three systems that service those needs and offer those games at a higher fidelity than on the Switch.
2) A number of games developed for the other systems simply won't run at an acceptable level.
The market is restricted to Nintendo-only players who by definition aren't huge third-party buyers, double-dippers and those who prefer portability i.e. segments of a market already considerably smaller than that of the other systems.
Switch-only players will hopefully be delighted to get a smattering of big third-party support to augment Nintendo games, indies etc. A Nintendo-only player isn't going to worry about the cost or quality of games on a system they don't own as it's irrelevant. A Nintendo-only player expecting full AAA support-something that has never happened on a Nintendo machine-is a fool who hasn't done their research....
If @ThomasBW84 was a NL user he would be bothered on the comments section for having an opinion of his own and, mostly, common sense. Keep up the good work!
I think the support is great. Nintendo will never get the same support as PS4 or Xbox because the audience isn't there or they already have a PS4 or Xbox. But if the Switch has the following, it will still succeed:
1. Games tailored for a Nintendo audience.
2. 3rd party licensed Nintendo games like Mario + Rabbids. Nintendo can let other companies make their games so their schedule is free.
3. Sports games like FIFA. People love these and Switch needs them.
4. Nintendo games. Duh.
5. Exclusive and popular indie games.
6. Quirky Japanese 3rd party games. As a handheld, this is inevitable.
The Switch is unique enough to be its own thing and I think it will do well.
@TheLZdragon
ok I have to ask; what is a 'nintendo' audience?
for me (pc gamer that gave up consoles) it's putting great portable games out. is that what you mean? or is it that tired trope of M games are just too bloody or whatever some have posted here.....
@JamesR thank you, people here that bash the lazy port usually say in the next phrase: but anyway I don't play sports game. I've always missed 2k and PES on my nintendo console and I for one would not wait a second to sell my ps4 if Fina is half as good as 2k. It's not perfect but it's a solid basketball game on the go and the little bugs here and there will be patched soon enough. It's a case of 2k being 2k
@justin233 Beautiful Katamari, released in Japan as Beautiful Katamari Damacy, is a video game by Namco Bandai Games for the Xbox 360. October 16, 2007. There is hope..
The reason why Nintendo people are not huge 3 party players is because the hardcore gamers that dictate the market..... they gamers don't have the games that would make the console competitive!.....AND AND AND...... IT IS NOT BECAUSE THE DEVELOPERS DON'T WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE AND DEVELOP FOR THEM. Its because of Nintendo's old ways....that are currently and finally in a state of change. Nintendo, since Mortal Kombat zigged one way (green blood) and the other competing systems zagged the other way (causing me to buy a sega for the more "realistic" red blood). As far as "taboo" content was involved Nintendo kinda took a stand. For people old enough its like drinking regular beer vs/ 3/2 beer... and nintendo games are watered down on the realism and not gonna give you the buzz you seek.
There are not many M rated games for any prior system Nintendo has made and even the ones that were, were still cartoony because of the under power of the system compared to the rest... thus not selling well since most past Nintendo families would not buy a shoot um up type of game.....and the hard core gamers are like whatever I got a playstation or xbox so whatever.
Now though.... even if only a slightly better then PS3 or whatever as far as capabilities of how the games look .... I would guess with LA Noire coming out (legit M Rated) its more then likely going to happen that we will have a GTA5 thats gonna be a little better then ps3 and a little less as good as the ps4 (there will be an in-between amount of grass blades between ps3-ps4 on our switch version) in our hands, on the tv or whenever, where ever at some point in time next year ... and its gonna be dope as hell.(id guess e3 announcement and holiday 2018 release.....OR It could be possible that rockstar delayed the release of Red Dead 2 a few times already and just made it a general 2018 release instead of an exact date that it had at least 2 times for 2017 because it will have a switch version as well that releases at the same time.....
I personally will pick the game 10 times out of 10 that I can play on the big screen or I can play in my hands as I watch netflix in the background or on a plane, train or bus because I have that option.... even if there is less defined sand in the wild west and not flawless edges on buildings.... because its freaking amazing to have that many options of when, how and where to play it.
Basically if nintendo allows anything on the system it will get all the 3rd party support it will ever need and we will get all the AAA games we could ever want..... just a little less defined until the next switch comes out.... but by that time.... id say sony and Microsoft with superior power consoles compared to the switch .... will be trying to play catch up to the switch in the functionality department and the switch will be just as powerful as a ps4 Pro.... and by that point the switch will be more then established as the console to have. Heck and I even say nintendo will get Microsofts exclusive games as well by then as they will team up. Ha I gotta stop typing and get to bed I'm getting delirious.
@deucezulu22 If it's not expensive for a handheld then why did Ntineod drop the price of the 3DS from $249 to $169 after only 3 months - altruism? Why drop the price of 2DS from $129 to $99 to $79 in 2 years?
Switch is $299, $299 is too expensive for a handheld. I'm not the only one who thinks that, ask people complaining about the Vita launch prices of $249 and $299.
http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2015/10/25/sony-still-doesnt-get-what-went-wrong-with-the-vita-and-thats-insane/173572/
"Let’s get it out of the way now: the Vita’s biggest problem, one Ito completely ignores, is and has always been that it is way too expensive. The initial $249 asking price sounded perfectly reasonable until we all watched Nintendo’s 3DS crash and burn at the same price a full year earlier. The only way Nintendo was able to pull the 3DS out of free fall was a dramatic price cut to $169 just five months after launch. And if the follow-up to Nintendo’s most profitable handheld to date couldn’t successfully hold a $249 launch price, there was no reason to believe the Vita would be able to. Yet while Nintendo saw a huge, sustained sales uptick at its new price point, Sony refused to budge on price for a full year and a half before finally cutting the Vita down to $199 in August 2013, which is exactly where it sits now, over two years later. That’s right — a Vita will still set you back $199 today."
Now what the Switch has going for it now is that it isn't a handheld console, it's a tribrid, and $299 for a tribird that people want that flexibility it's a good price. But as the system starts getting more and more games aimed at kids like Disney Magical World, and those kids want it as a handheld b/c they don't own their own tvs, well $299 is too expensive for it to be used only as a handheld.
You were right about the "never" though. I had to go back and re-read my comment b/c I know better, back in the S/NES days before Sony and MS had consoles Nintendo consoles did have 3rd party support. And Wii had plenty as well, even if a lot of it was shovelware. And the handhelds have always had good 3rd party support. N64 and Gamecube were really becoming 1st party Nitnedo machines, but that isn't never. Poor choice of word on my part.
@dimi "I see Switch as the true 3ds successor not the 2ds"
What I meant was I can see the New 2DS XL sticking around for the kids as a cheap alternative to Switch long after New 3DS XL are gone off the shelves. It' shard to find a New 3DS non-XL in the states as it is. And since the New 3DS XL is $199 and the Switch $299, well that's kind of close in price, Nintneod will l just expect 3DS owners to buy a Switch sooner rather than later, but those $149 New 2DS XL will stick around for awhile, Nintnedo is pushing them hard this year, and I think they'll stick around.
I've been burned by Nintendo's games, so I haven't bought a single Nintendo game for my Switch. Just 3rd party games. And you know what? It's pretty good. Whenever a new Switch game is announced, I consider it's portability factor for whether I should get it on Switch over PS4. I have a good sized collection of games, and don't feel guilty about owning tbe Switch early on, unlike Wii U. That alone means a lot.
@rjejr
I think it's pretty clear what Nintendo are doing. The price is fine now because unlike 3DS in 2011, it's powerful and unlike Vita, it also functions as much more than a handheld.
They'll keep 3DS ticking over until the end of next year and by then either economies of scale and/or a new variant that's more durable and smaller will mean a lower-priced Switch aimed at the 3DS market/kids.
There was a Doom game on the Gameboy Advance. Don't remember if it was good or not.
Of course, we can't say "all third parties have no excuses now" without at least some of us doing their job of talking with their wallets, even by taking each gamer's own budget and economical situation into account. Of course, we're a vocal minority as we voice our opinions here, but we can't really count on the silent majority to do all the work. And this is an unemployed Nintendo fan that has yet to get his Switch talking, so I'm aware of the irony - or, as the more cynical folks among you might put it, of the hypocrisy.
As always, Arlo puts it best, and despite Metroid: Samus Returns being the subject of the video, his point applies to all software "we fans want on our system but we singular people don't want to buy ourselves.
Of course, Just Dance will come because there are people buying it without talking about it here, and they outnumber the site's userbase by far. That's the point here.
Other than that, my friend - the "Bizarro AlexSora89 Who Loves Xbox Instead Of Nintendo" I often mention - pointed out a fatal flaw with the DOOM port: the low framerate can be a deal breaker considering the game is too fast-paced to be properly enjoyed under 60fps. Given in shooters you have to aim in real time, low framerates can, in fact, be detrimental to gameplay itself. It's not about being a "graphics oldest-profession-worker" [paraphrased], it's sadly a fact. I got a taste of the exact worry looming towards the Switch version of DOOM by playing PSX title Duke Nukem Time To Kill yesterday in a multiplayer session - the choppy framerate may in fact draw the line between a shot connecting with the target's hitbox, and the shot missing completely. Which in turn, of course, might also be the difference between dying and prevailing. Losing and winning. Seeing a pattern here?
The issue in question is doubly worrying considering the DOOM engine being supposedly "versatile", one of the most versatile engines around in fact. Given the game is also slightly downgraded to meet the Switch's standards in order to guarantee a better performance, and 30fps being the cap is suddenly a more worrying sign.
If you bring up the obligatory "how can Odyssey be so gorgeous then, you smart donkey" [paraphrased again] question, I have to point out that Odyssey is made with the Switch in mind, and this is by no means a feat we can expect a third party - let alone every third party - to pull off, especially given the increasing amount of games meant to be immersive, artistic experiences, something Breath Of The Wild has meant to mimic. It's just not the same world we used to live in, a simpler time when games were games.
But hey, I want to be proven wrong. Not by a comment, not by a game, but simply by history.
@outsider83
The first two DOOM games lend themselves to easy ports. The GBA was THE handheld of its age, therefore bam, DOOM. This is "Doom 4" or, to be precise, Doom 2016.
@outsider83
it was bad. snes version was bad. ps1 version was bad. i have the 3do version.... bad.
i dunno if it was the devs or what but nothing worked until the ps2 gen for that one. crazy enough.
I feel it's important to retain perspective in cases like these. I see a lot of blind optimism surrounding the Switch, and while it's nice to see positive buzz for a Nintendo after the Wii U, 3DS notwithstanding, that doesn't guarantee the Switch is going to just dominate. I bought a Switch day 1 because I'm a fanatic and had just gotten my tax return, but I barely turn mine on these days because there's just nothing out at the present moment that interests me. If I didn't buy one, I would still have played Zelda and Mario Kart on Wii U. Not a fan of ARMS and Splatoon 2 was a poor purchase. I never played the first and I found 2 to be boring. Third party stuff looks okay, but the $80 Canadian price tag on new games plus exorbitantly marked up eShop titles mean I'm not risking buying something I'm not sure I'll like. $80, over $90 with tax, is a lot of money to me right now, and I can't afford to waste that money and anything less than a guaranteed positive experience. Yes, we have some interesting games on the horizon, but nothing I'd consider an evergreen title. Third parties could get fed up with the lack of power, especially with the Xbox One X looming. Nintendo could experiment with new games and fail, or poorly space out releases into next year and beyond, there are too many unknowns to come to any definitive conclusions. I love Nintendo, I only own Nintendo systems each console generation, I'm a Nintendo-only player, which is why I'm so cautious about my own expectations. I've been burned in the past and I know there are others out there with similar experiences. More realistic expectations are needed to balance out the overly optimistic ones.
"Yet still, there's another factor. Every Switch release has to support its portable mode"
This is the current gen version of the Gamepad issue. The need for all third parties to utilize it in some way.
NDFers are riding high about Switch now, but this time next year AAA 3rd party support will be non existent for 2 reasons:
1) the tech will outgrow what Switch can handle.
2) not enough switch owners will be buying these AAA third party games anyways, lack of incentive from third-party publishers.
@Scot00 Ah, that’s right! Forgot about that one. Either way, I really want Katamari on Switch.
@electrolite77 " a new variant that's more durable and smaller"
That's what I think too. Nintedo made this modular, it seems like they have a plan with a lot of possibilities, so why do we need this downer article now? Can't we just enjoy the good times while it lasts?
@rjejr
I'm not sure if it's a downer article. The reality is any Western AAA's Switch gets will be a bonus, not the norm. That doesn't mean any impending disaster for the Switch as the key to it succeeding is elsewhere i.e. Nintendo. A modular design using the same ecosystem will allow them to still produce different hardware forms for different markets while concentrating all their games on one ecosystem.
That picture of 2K18 makes it look like a PS2 game. God DAMN, that uncanny valley is deep and vast...
No, seriously, I'm not exaggerating. Just look at 2K8 on the PS2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfi4SYtiQqM
@electrolite77 "Nail on the head. Switch has to be Nintendo's only machine going forward."
Well it has to be the only OS. SwitchLite. SwitchBoy. SwitchTV. SwitchMini, New Switch. New Switch XL. SwitchPocket, Switch Tablet.
One of the good things about the 3DS family is that Ntinedo showed they don't care abut anything. They spent all that time promoting 3D, then made a 2DS that plays those games w/o 3D. Then they made a New 3DS that plays several games the old 3DS doesn't play. (At least 3 I think, XC, FEW, and SNES VC). So, Ninteod can make all kinds of Switch, Switch w/o a dock, Switch w/o Joycon. Not much they can try they haven't already w/ the 3DS family.
As long as they run most of the Switch games. I'm ok w/ a SwitchBoy that can't play 1 2 Switch, people will survive.
I know that you know that I know we already knew all of that, sometimes I just can't help myself.
@Anti-Matter I used to think your viewpoint was a little silly, but the uncanny valley that the NS creates by modern standards with any game trying for "realistic-like graphics" is dawning on me. Like a 1 ton anvil to the head. You may actually have a good point... Just stick with fantastical and artistic graphics. I didn't mind it for previous generations, because that was all we had. By 8th/9th gen though, it's just like... really?
@electrolite77 Oh look, it's like we're a step out of time.
Maybe it's not a downer article to you, but it read that way to me and a few others. and at the moment it just seems unnecessary. Later next week when Rockstar has that whole RDR2 thing and Switch doens't show up, well that will be a good time for this. But why now? Why not write an article about how great it is that Switch IS getting Skyrim. Doom, FIFA and LA Noir, leave the doom and gloom article for when there is actual doom and gloom news? Why be preemptive for bad news? I don't get it, and I'm a doom and gloom guy. But right now Switch IS getting 3rd party support, sports games, open world games, FPS, yes even adult FPS games on the Switch, that's mind-blowing stuff right there. So why spoil the fun with what will come? I don't question the article as much as the timing, I like to enjoy those few minutes of happiness life gives em when I can.
Saw this in my hedge this morning. Winter will come and it will be dead soon, but I'm enjoying it now for how cool it is, later can take care of later.
@rjejr My guess is that when the Maxwell Tegra chip becomes so outdated that it's a hindrance (2-3 years from now), Nintendo will commission the Pascal Tegra chip, which should be more affordable by then. That should alleviate a lot of potential performance woes. Then 4-5 years from now, Nintendo can commission the Xavier/Tesla Tegra chips. Along the way, the older Tegra chips will be used for portable-only budget models. So the future portable-only SKU based on the equivalent current version of the NS should be under $200 in 2020.
@PlywoodStick
I have no longer interest with OMG Ultra HD Realistic graphics with FF XV level. It was Perfect, But Boring as hell.
Since I prefer Cartoonish graphic a lot, my priority is looking for Ultra HD Cartoonish graphics, such as Mario Odyssey or Portal Knights or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe or LEGO CITY UNDERCOVER & etc. Even for The Sims games, I prefer The Sims 4 art style a LOT than The Sims 3 art style. The Sims 4 looks more Cartoonish despite of Realistic body size. And of course, I cannot resist for OMG Six Pack body on The Sims 4 !
@gatorboi352 Precisely!
I'm lucky enough to own both a Switch and a PS4, so I don't have too much problems. I will get both Doom and Wolfenstein 2 on my Switch for the portability. I don't mind playing Monster Hunter World on PS4 since I don't like that franchise on portable. The same with bigger more graphically driven franchises like Uncharted, GTA, etc.
However, the Switch has become the main console since last month. The portable aspect is brilliant. Fifa 18 Switch, here I come.
I think 3rd parties should concentrate on porting/making games that perfectly fit the Switch hardware. IE, games that can be enjoyed even in 30 minute chunks and can be picked up and put down with ease. The Switch doesn't need every third party game out on PS4 or Xbox One. Not just because it may not handle it, but often in those case, those are demanding games that require much more time from the player that a simple 30 minute play session is impossible to do.
I'm really hoping that it can atleast get a few AAA third party games on the switch as I own a PS4 and the Switch could be ace for me portability wise... If Skyrim, Fifa, Wolfenstein, Doom etc can do well and maybe a few favourites with alot of replayability get added to that list like Fallout 4 hopefully! I'll definitely have to pick one up. Just really hoping they get a few good third party games. Also liking the look of Arms, Zelda, 12 Switch but I'm not really into Nintendo exclusives except for Pokemon when I was a kid haha, would be interested in that too! Just thought I'd hop over from Push square to check out some reviews for the Switch!
About chipsets and price of the Switch console... (handheld to whoever really feels that way...to each there own).
A. I really can't understand why people complain about the price for a system.... no mater if portable, home, or hybird. Is that Phone in your pocket used mostly by the masses for Facebook, snapchat, instagram, ect, really worth that 600-1100 price tag? AND every 2 years needing (wanting) to upgrade for new features you will use a handful of times and forget about (for most people).
B. Throw the best of the best chipset in whatever is next for nintendo and I will pay 400-1000 bucks for the thing without hesitation. I think its batpoop crazy people would drop a G on a phone as apposed to a gaming system (probably would do away with scalping at that cost) & (hopefully many years down the road and easy for the developers to work with without having to compromise anything). Then everyone else who feels its too expensive can still get the OG switch for 149.99.
PS... Nintendo with a price tag like that please include some storage space.
PPS... I have no complaints about my switch I just hope it will get NHL 19 next year so I can box up my ps4.
PPSS...... WHO IS EXCITED FOR THIS FRIDAY...... SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES
I think they need to work on more old IPs as the the 2018 line up feels a lot like a poor year with rubbish titles like kirby and Yoshi for the kids. But no big hitters as we have had zelda, mario, kart, splatoon, what else has the same draw? Other than a re hash of smash. Ps. Metroid is two years away.
Every Switch release has to support its portable mode - except 1 2 Switch?
@rjejr
Fair enough, if you found it a downer that's your perception of it. It's a shame, as it ends on a positive note,and at least it didn't just list all the big third-party games coming out over the next few months that aren't going to be on the Switch. If it tempers the kind of OTT giddiness we can see in post #47, that isn't a bad thing.
@rjejr Lol, the 3DS and the Switch are not even comparable. Switch is offering current AAA title experiences and is a hybrid console. The 3DS is strictly for handheld gaming, let alone it was the same price as the Vita at the time, which was far more powerful. Besides, if price was an issue then the system wouldn't be selling right now. Again the Switch itself cost $257 to build, the system is priced just right.
@gatorboi352 Not true at all. The gamepad did not have to be utilize, even Donkey Kong didn't use the features. As a matter of fact, it was one of the Wii U's biggest criticisms. We already have Indie developers not using dock mode for the Switch. So I don't know where you came up with these requirements that developers have to follow.
@deucezulu22 it's not that it's a requirement, but a consideration that they always have to have. Either way, if switch owners don't buy these third-party titles (which let's be honest, they won't) then this will all be a moot point anyways.
Yeah 2K18 is having issues on all hardware, but i think it will be patched before the physical cart is released on Switch. As for wanting all games in Switch, I see nothing wrong with wanting it all, but I would say not to get mad if it doesn't happen.
I also don't think it is good to keep seeing comments about not wanting a Nintendo system to play anything other than Nintendo games. That has created a stigma and leads to devs not wanting to make games for a Nintendo system.
The whole article is a strawman. I wonder why I even bother with this site sometime with writing like this.
@crimsontadpoles It depends on what matters to you I've been playing games since the 70s...and it ain't driven by "graphical fidelity"
it's a "nice to have" but it has definitely veered into the realm of "diminishing returns".
Running around and fake shooting people probably wouldn't be a $60+ dollar investment if $30M usb and up wasn't thrown at a video game...
But...I'm old
-K
Wow so many on here seem to strangely Nintendo Only Club. I love Nintendo games and always will, I have kinda been just been using mine as a sister console to the PS4 games as last 2 generations. Over the years these consoles fought in the same space GameCube vs PS2 under the telly vying for attention. This generation is exciting for me because now the choice isnt FIFA on PS with superior graphics better audio and video as well as better gameplay against a passable Nintendo version.
Now the choice is FIFA at home only versus FIFA on the go as well as on the couch. And not only that but from all reports it's better than passable it plays really solid, yeah a graphical downgrade but for all intents gameplay wise just as good(missing a game mode but one which personally I don't find necessary in a sports sim).
Now from what I've watched on a variety of youtubers 2k is hella close to the other versions, like they realistically with the spec In mind got impressively far with the Switch. Just look at some PS4, Switch and PS3 comparisons that are out there not a bad effort at all! The reviews I've watched say it's perfectly playable at this point and are pretty happy with it barring some regrettable required patches yes, but come on it's 2017 this is a thing now.... it's not only existent on the Switch. (Btw I'm not a basketball fan and happy with Playgrounds at present so personally just going off youtubers and reviews☺️)
Anyway where was I?
Now we have DOOM looking pretty bloody good too, it makes me think "well yeah it'll look and play slightly better on my PS4...... but DOOM on the go!!! 😝👍)
At first I would have probably argued for opting for the superior version but nowadays the flexibility of my Switch and being able to continue some grinding or a level whilst on my lunch break is really winning me over. And again from current reports plays really well!
I don't play Nintendo because I'm adverse to certain types of games like some on here. I'm an adult and can decipher the difference between blood and guts in games vs reality. I play Nintendo because it's fun and almost always unique. But I'm gonna enjoy blowing aliens to little bits for an hour so whilst camping etc.
In fact that is deliriously exciting a prospect!! So colour me in the excitable camp. Gloom and doom be dammed!
3rd party games like COD and Battlefield won't sell as well on Nintendo systems as they've built up an existing multiplayer base on PS/MS systems.
Plenty of other games would do well on Switch though, I think something like KH3 would actually sell more than on some other systems.
If the Switch continues its success then it'll be hard for 3rd partys to ignore it next year.
This is how I currently see it. With Switch they have obviously learned their lesson from Wii U (that being stick to the audience that won't let you down). Handheld gamers have always preferred Nintendo for their system of choice even when analysts screeched smart phone doomsday. There is still a very large market to tap into.
Switch has messaged itself clear. Anybody expecting AAA games into 2020 (outside of Nintendo collaborations like Kingdom Battle) is setting themselves up for a huge fall. Sony tried the console quality tactic twice and failed on both counts. The handheld audience is different.
With the handheld audience carrying over to Switch, indies not having the outrageous budgets that the bigger publishers have and Japan mainly gearing towards handhelds in general the only way Switch can become as barren as Wii U was for third party releases is if piracy becomes as rampant as it was on PSP.
As some folks have pointed out, NBA is having early launch problems on all platforms. Let's not pretend this is because 2K put less effort in the Switch version or because of the Switch's hardware.
Anyway, its smart not to get too excited, but I'm still pretty optimistic towards 3rd party relations on Switch. Worst case scenario, it'll probably still get plenty Japanese 3rd party support. Furthermore, as the 3DS slows down, said Japanese 3rd parties will start fully supporting then switch.
I have a PS4, so the third party games aren't a big problem, but for people that only have one console, it's a struggle. However, I think after this holiday season (and if the Switch continues to sell strongly), we'll see more from 3rd parties next year...other than that, it's still getting more games than what the Wii U had, and it won't take long to get a bigger library for it than the Wii U. In other words, I don't blame certain companies waiting to see...the Wii U was horrible (at least in my opinion). The only problem is that most of the 3rd party games have already been out on the other systems...and by the time the sports titles finally arrive, the next year installments will already be out...it's already coming close to when the next franchise in the series begin to start arriving. Other than that, I still don't mind getting 3rd party games that are good on PS4 and the Switch, as I use the Switch as a handheld instead. My only fear is if nintendo tries to release a new handheld...will that push 3rd parties away from the Switch? Will that mean more years of one year nintendo works on their console (with barely any support to their handheld) and the next year their support goes to their handheld (with barely any support to their console)? Even with the 3DS right now, there's a big lag in games from 3rd parties...there's not as many if you look at the way the DS, Advance and even the Gameboy had loads and loads of titles arrive for them. It all comes down to the 3rd parties wanting to dip one of their games into it, but I'd rather see them make something new and exclusive to the Switch, rather than just 1-2 year old ports...but I'd still also like to see some ports. As for the E-shop, it's the same old thing, with many that are on various systems already or Wii U E-Shop games re-releasing (granted I still double dipped for Little Inferno again!!!). I wonder when the official virtual console will finally arrive on it?
@NintyNate There is bound to be a dedicated Switch Zelda game somewhere between its mid- and late life. Nintendo can't simply let its last console have nothing else than a port.
@MsgBoardGamer1 I always thought the Nintendo64 had a decent amount of non-Nintendo videogames. It seemed limited in its time because people were comapring it to the output seen on SFC/SNS and PSX, but one should see that therewas actually less games overall on the console. The percentage of outsiders games seemed still quite good.
PC full 60fps experience. Switch 30fps at 1080P most games. 60fps only at lower resolution. So PC wins no matter what. I love it how they keep trying to program people to make them think that the Switch is a stronger hardware. LMAO at this stuff. Lol @ people buying it
I swear, every time Nintendo produces an underpowered game console, they quickly lose 3rd Party Developers. Only the NES and SNES had a lot of 3rd party games thanks to being the most powerful console on the market when they were released.
@gatorboi352 More like options if the developers choice fit to use it. Besides whether these games sell or not is yet to be determined.
@alasdair91 I would rather buy games on my Switch and I have NO clue why... It's just because the technology is pretty mind blowing for me maybe.
All the indies releasing digital titles are third parties.
Those are the games I want, so I'm good.
It has been almost ten years since last EA released something I took interest in.
I think NO ONE should expect that AAA games will come to the Switch in first place. They are games developed to perform well on PS4 and XBO, made by computers (so they'll obviously run better on PC), so we just can't expect they will run on a system which is underpowered and which was out of the plans of thirdies when they started to develop these games.
However, I have a feeling that some thirdies will make games for the Switch which will be ported to other consoles, because it's easier to do that way (or even exclusives).
What I'm trying to say is that the Switch shouldn't be put in the same scenario as PS4/XBO and be smashed if they couldn't do impossible ports due to its hardware
@Rei I know but Twilight Princess had 3 diff console releases! And breath of the wild wasn't even for Switch, it came to WiiU aswell... Last time Zelda had a full blown outing on one console was skyward sword am I right???
@PlywoodStick "So the future portable-only SKU based on the equivalent current version of the NS should be under $200 in 2020."
The "portable only" Switch should be under $200 right now, not in the future. $300 Switch - $90 dock, $15 grip, $5 HDMI cable = $190.
Ok, so it doesn't quite work that way, still need a charger w/ is probably $30, but the Switch tablet innards don't seem to be nearly all fo the price. If Ninteod built on the Joycon like a Vita or old 2DS that would be a savings as well as they could probably drop some of the tech like IR. So getting under $200 doesn't seem a problem at all with the current tech. In the future $150 for a kids toy should be easy.
Though if they can keep selling the current Switch bundle for $299 I don't suppose they'll need to go thru all the trouble. They suckered me into paying $380 for a digital download of Mario, and I'm a notorious bargain hunter. Some say cheapskate. Options are there though, plenty of options w/ very little effort.
@electrolite77 "it didn't just list all the big third-party games coming out over the next few months"
I would have preferred a list of games not coming, when they weren't coming. But to make it fair list the games not coming to other consoles either.
While PS4 and X1 are getting Destiny & SWBF2 they aren't getting Mario, XC2 or FE:W. They are getting GT Sport and Forza, but Switch got MK8D. Switch is getting FIFA, Skyrim, LA Noire and WWE2k. There's a balance. Knack 2 is a PS4 exclusive, Xbox and Switch owners will survive, they;ll be playing Lego Marvel Superheroes 2.
So no, Switch isn't getting every single multiplat, but if you line up the big 3 consoles game by game, those other consoles aren't getting a few good game this holiday either. My PS4 is sitting dormant this Christmas as it waits for all of the 2018 games, GoW, Spiderman, TLoU2 if it doesn't get held back to be a PS5 launch title.
So maybe people shouldn't get too excited, but no console owner should expect to get every game, Even the XBox has exclusives. If you value the Switch exclusives then you choose Switch. Article just seemed out of left field for no reason, and it seemed very glass is half empty w/o even making an effort to be balanced. 1 sentence at the end doens't make up for an entire page of "don't get carried away".
Decent article, and topics like these are almost always interesting to discuss, but I agree with some commenters that it is too soon, slightly too pessimistic, and some points/statements are based on half-truths.
The most important one being the whole "Digital Foundry has made a Switch-like PC and is using that to test games and see how they would perform".
That can NEVER be accurate. The whole architecture is different, memory buses are addressed differently, there's other types of memory in there not available (in standard, un-specialized outlets) for PC, and the Tegra chip has a completely different number of CPU cycles and also behaves completely different in the way how it addresses itself and the other parts of its architecture.
The closest a PC setup can come to it, is an approximation, but that still won't be accurate. It will at most give some idea, but really nothing conclusive to speak off.
So, the only fully correct statement where that part is concerned, is the fact that consoles can be programmed way closer to the metal, making the comparison with a virtual Switch setup on a PC even more weak than it already is.
Having said that, we DO need to be realistic and never expect a complete third party catalog on the Switch, because that's simply just not going to happen. As in NEVER.
If the Bethesda releases truly take off and sell well enough, more will come, and not just from them, but also from other publishers/developers. That will, and should, of course also be coupled with hardware sales, so keeping that momentum going is Nintendo's job, and it seems like they're doing that well enough already, so if they keep it up or increase that effort, then the support will follow suit.
And then there's of course also a part to play for the gamers. You can't keep crying about lack of or not enough third party support and not reward it when it actually does arrive. That will only sent the wrong message to third parties that apparently their games aren't wanted on a Nintendo platform, and as a result, their support will melt away like snow under a blazing summer sun...
@rjejr The Switch isn't too expensive, and I honestly don't expect it to really drop down in price anytime soon. At best, I can see more bundles happening, so that might offer some form of a discount both for the game and the console, but other than that, I'm not expecting any miracles.
The console's components aren't cheap enough (yet) for Nintendo to safely be able to offer any kind of price drop without losing their still very much needed profits. Once the market share really starts to rise, then things might change, but maybe not even then.
Before that, production lines and supply chains will have to undergo their first optimizations: something that is either in the process of starting as we speak, or hasn't even happened yet.
Normally, that would coincide with the next big delivery of systems (with any production line, not just with consoles, by the way), so after the first production run has completely finished and has come off of the conveyor belt.
And I dare to take a bet that there is not just going to be Switch going forward either: that would probably be the perfect equivalent of the entire Nintendo office dancing on Mr. Iwata's grave.
He was VERY adamant that the NX's/Switch's architecture should be the start of a whole range of devices sharing the same OS and structure, so expect multiple iterations of devices to come.
A real handheld, a real console, for all those "Switch isn't powerful enough to give me real next gen graphics" whiners, and the current Switch line will also remain, for those people that aren't so whiney and are perfectly willing and able to relinquish some of those "purdy graphics" in exchange for the much more valuable asset of being able to play anytime any place, anywhere. (enter Martini music)
P.S.
How's your health going? Had your checkup yet?
Got my own issues right now: yesterday, I helped my old man with moving his stuff from his old garden cottage to his new one, and a slight misstep during the reconstruction of the barbecue, consisting of stacked up concrete slabs and parts made me throw out my back, so I'm pretty cranky right now, and in a considerably painful state.
The monstrosity looks something like this, to give you some idea about what did me in...
By the way, I haven't sent you the reminder concerning the old thread yet, haven't gotten around to it due to several things happening over here, but I'm hoping to get around to it any day now, hopefully before my SNES Classic arrives...
@ThanosReXXX Well if you and I both agree it's too pessimistic well then it must be. Though I was pretty sure of that before you got here.
"The Switch isn't too expensive"
Well not for what it is now, but for what it will be in the future. Namely a replacement for the $129, $99, $79 2DS for kids to play to those licensed Disney kids games. Parents aren't paying $299 for a kid to throw a Switch in his backpack and take it to McDonalds or school or the playground - if kids today even know what a playground is. For Nintendo to reach those kids it will have to come down in price. And that will happen when the next mainline Pokemon game comes out exclusively on Switch. If it's a dual Switch - 3DS game like FE:W then the price can stay. A new Animal Crossing game would probably make parents take notice of the price as well.
So while the Switch may be fine at $299, it won't get past 30m w/o a much cheaper alternative. If Nitneod is fine w/ 30m and no kids then thats fine.
@ThanosReXXX Oh, my health is still fine, but once I find out otherwise I'll let ya know somewhere else. Somewhere old.
You remembers BLPs? I don't think his health is doing too good, got himself banned for real. You and I had a run in awhile back w/ gcunit - I feel like I cleared things up on my end, not sure where you sit w/ him these days - but Tasuki takes no prisoners.
http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/09/hands_on_sonic_forces_offers_both_slick_speed_and_colourless_customisation
@rjejr I don't think the Switch is going to replace the 3DS line, and to be honest, I still marvel at the fact that you're holding on to comparing the Switch to the 2DS, which is like comparing a fisher price toy phone to a high quality smart phone.
Those are never going to replace each other, at least not with the Switch in its current form. The newer iterations might in some way, but they will have another form or shape, much like how the 3DS did indeed slowly evolve into the 2DS.
Might even be that Switch Lite you're always mentioning...
But even that Switch Lite better have a touch screen, though 'cause apparently, kids nowadays are either way too dumb or too tablet-brainwashed to understand how an actual handheld console works:
As for BLPs:
That's probably going to multiply his whiskey intake...
I might have to take a glass myself, seeing as you lured me into venturing onto that Playstation site again, but I actually like BLPs so my curiosity got the better of me.
So, now I have a sore back AND a sore head...
In all seriousness, though: I obviously missed that late night rant of his, because even though his tone in the first comment towards the writer wasn't really nice, he clearly explained himself quite elaborately and politely later on, and I personally found no major fault in the conversation as a whole, and certainly not one big enough worth being banned for, but I'm quite tolerant in general, so maybe that's just me.
And I personally have no problems with gcunit. Had a run in with him too once, but he was simply applying the site rules. Once the anger over being reprimanded (and in my case by a probably much younger person, which is always my personal gripe in these cases) subsides, any smart person should realize that they are only doing what they are supposed to do/are hired for, and that is to keep this community clean and tolerable for all of us.
(On a side note: this whole topic does make me very strongly wonder why the hell a certain person still isn't banned, because I can't stand his negativity and derisive comments, so that's one person I wouldn't mind losing forever. And no, I'm not going to use that ignore button, that feels like bending the knee/losing, and I don't bow if I myself haven't done anything wrong)
People get way too upset by all the wrong things nowadays, it's all too silly sometimes, and actually even a bit sad.
Us and several others being from the States and hanging around on a decidedly British site is another example: we're both probably completely used to and utterly unfazed by the usage of a certain daily amount of F-Bombs, synonyms for female dogs, showers and exit-ways of the human body, but in these here neck-of-the-woods we aren't even allowed to type the sh.. word, something that I personally find completely ridiculous, since it is even used by kids all over the world.
(side note nr. two: and you should hear how the Dutch swear: makes us yanks and other native English speakers look like a bunch of silly toddlers. They laugh at our F-Bombs and what-nots. They swear with hell, death and diseases, and I've come to find that it can both be really hurtful and effective)
And it also foregoes the fact that it can also be used as a positive term, but I've more or less come to terms with petty rules like that, even if I don't agree with them, since I like hanging out here in general, so if I want to continue doing that, then I need to stick to the rules as they are, since they'll probably not be too quick in changing them to suit all our personal needs and wants...
P.S.
Since I'm going to send you a reminder of an old thread sometime this week anyways, I'll also take the rest of the personal health discussion with me, so see you there.
I guess the back pain is causing me to not think as clearly as I normally do where discretion is concerned...
This does once again makes me wonder why NLife doesn't offer the option for private messaging though, something quite common on a whole lot of other game sites. Makes having a private conversation a heck of a whole lot easier.
On here, it has at one point necessitated me to share a mail account with someone, simply because we had stuff to share. That all went good, luckily, but normally, I'm not a real fan of such practices.
@ThanosReXXX I know you don't like that site, but it seemed quicker and easier than having to explain it all to you. And I don't think it was those comments as much as the totality of his negativity the past 2 or 3 weeks. Even on twitter. Honestly a few nights ago I thought about telling him he was getting a little carried away, but I'm not cop material. But I was thinking it, so I'm not really surprised.
2DS and Switch aren't the same, but the 2DS will need a successor someday, and I'd prefer a cheap Switch to a 3DS 2 or 4DS. When it comes out I don't know, depends on continued 3DS game support, Switch sales, and kids games on Switch. We really don't know a lot of 2018 Switch games besides Kirby, Yoshi and hopefully DQ11. Oh and Just Dance b/c somehow that series just won't die. That's not much of a line-up, but it's still more than 3DS I think.
@rjejr Was just kidding about the whole "lured me to the site" thing, I'll live through it. Going through far bigger issues right now, even the back pain, which is considerable, doesn't compare.
And I thought there had to be more to the story, because like I said, the comments weren't THAT bad, but he already mentioned himself that he had posted some sort of a rant earlier, so this was probably the proverbial straw.
The reason I was wondering is because I thought the whole issue was going to be clear from that single thread, and since I didn't think it was too heavy, it made me wonder why he got banned for that, but I already put two and two together before your reply.
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