These are strange times in the game console industry. It used to be that major rivals would release gaming machines that simply plugged into your TV and they'd battle against each other for around five years before upping the ante with new technology. Systems didn't always go head to head in terms of release timings - the SEGA Genesis / Mega Drive got out ahead of the SNES, for example - but the pattern felt relatively familiar, especially as hardware add-ons generally made a minor impact at best.
How things change. At present Nintendo's new 'home gaming system' - the Switch, of course - is essentially a gaming tablet with an intuitive and bespoke dock solution to 'switch' between TV and portable play. PS4 and Xbox One arrived in conventional ways, but then Sony unveiled and released PS4 Pro, a mid-gen iteration that offers increased power and 4K gaming - to various degrees, from native resolution to 'checkerboard' upscaling - for those that want to splash out. Microsoft responded by announcing Project Scorpio last year, and that system (expected this year) has been in the headlines following the reveal by our colleagues at Digital Foundry of its system specs.
As we've argued in the past, Nintendo was among a number of pioneers of the mid-gen upgrade. SEGA did it somewhat disastrously with the Mega Drive in a period where CD-ROM add-ons in particular were all the rage, but it's also been a core part of Nintendo's portable business. The Game Boy, Game Boy Advance, DS and 3DS saw multiple iterations, including those with notable performance upgrades. The DSi added a whole new library of games with the DSi Shop, while the New 3DS improved the 3D effect and added a range of other nice additions (such as integrated amiibo scanning). Big fans of both portable gaming and Nintendo have been used to buying at least two of each handheld.
What's happening now isn't 'new', then, but it's nevertheless felt different to past eras, with an increasing sense that home consoles from Sony and Microsoft are moving closer to the PC model. In the cases of both the PS4 Pro and Scorpio there aren't any exclusives on the new systems, with all titles expected to also run on standard PS4 and Xbox One machines - with the Scorpio that's particularly interesting as the gulf between it and the original (and the now-standard S) is relatively big; it's rather like the difference between a low-end and high-end PC, though no console ever gets truly close to the most pricey PC rigs. It's not inconceivable for developers to scale games accordingly, but what we're seeing is a loss of the one console to rule each generation policy that was in place, largely unaffected, from the PS2 / GameCube / Xbox era onwards. Now, instead of the ugly add-ons of the '90s, we're back into mid-gen console refreshes but are being sold entirely new boxes.
What the Scorpio reveals have done, no doubt much to Microsoft's delight, is re-spark the tech spec wars - but this time in its favour. PS4 typically came out above Xbox One, and the Pro weighed in further, but now Scorpio will be the most powerful gaming console out there. It'll get closer to 'true' 4K gaming, though end results will be telling, and it'll be intriguing to see the kind of price tag that brings. In the battle over console power, so eagerly fought on Twitter and in YouTube comments sections, there'll be three sides - PS4 wins because of exclusive games and the Pro is good enough, the Scorpio wins because of its superior grunt to PS4 Pro, and those in the PC 'Master Race' declaring all consoles void and pointless.
Nintendo doesn't come into that battle, a point we've made before but has been emphasized in the post-Scorpio tech specs landscape. For some this is something to argue about - look at the YouTube comments on any Digital Foundry analysis of a Switch game - but in reality it's simply a reminder that Nintendo is in its own bubble, as it has been for the past decade (at least).
The Nintendo Switch is an interesting beast - it seems to be the most powerful mainstream portable gaming system out there, utilising GPU tech that's driven the impressive NVIDIA Shield range, and delivers home console-level experiences. Yet clearly it'll struggle with a number of current-gen home console games; some will be well optimised and do the trick, but other ports and multi-platform arrivals will be poorly optimised or just a bit too much for the system to handle; after all, the base PS4 and Xbox One have their troubles with some games. As with past generations, the most ambitious and technically demanding 'triple-A' multi-platform releases will likely skip Nintendo hardware.
To some among us that's an unpleasant reality and an important issue. In the broader world, though, it simply means Nintendo Switch sits in a different bubble / category to the Sony and Microsoft battlefield.
When the Switch was unveiled Nintendo suggested that it was the result of 35 years of learning and hardware evolution, and while true in one sense we think the evolution is actually a decade in the making. With the Wii, Nintendo stepped out of the arms race of conventional home consoles and decided it would create its own area of the market, a very 'Nintendo-like' space of blue oceans and monstrous profits. The Wii was modest in terms of power but a revelation in gameplay experiences, and it went viral. The Wii U, likewise, was modest technically but focused on a dual-screen concept, though it failed to take off and will likely end up as Nintendo's poorest-selling mainstream home console.
The long-term fortunes of the Switch are yet to emerge, though it's had a strong start - it's also technically modest as a home console (a powerful portable, though) but focuses on convenience of play. What it also does, of course, is tap into the familiarity many have with smartphones and tablets. The form factor is a tablet, but clipping on the Joy-Con, docking quickly for TV play and enjoying Nintendo-style games anywhere and in any style has proven to be a solid selling point early on.
Within the Nintendo market bubble, then, it's an exciting proposition - capable of HD gaming (and more powerful than a Wii U) but easily enjoyed on the bus ride to work. Nintendo, over the next few years, will inevitably target that sizeable audience that plays some games on phones and tablets but can be tempted by the allure of franchises like Mario Kart, Pokémon and so on. In some ways Nintendo already defied the odds by making a success of the 3DS in a smart device age, and now aims to pull off a similar trick with the hybrid hardware; it might just work, too.
Ultimately, though, directly comparing Switch to the current PS4 / Xbox One battle will become increasingly less relevant; Pro and Scorpio offer levels not at all possible on Nintendo's system, and by the time a 'new gen' starts the Switch will be well behind in terms of its graphical power. Yet if the Switch succeeds Nintendo won't be particularly concerned, and would be unlikely to have any interest in the arms race with the inevitable Switch successor. On top of that, third-party support is relative - if the Switch becomes a hit publishers will find content that will fit the hardware, regardless of how much slower the CPU and GPU are compared to rival systems.
As it is we're in a technologically rich world, where many people have multiple gadgets and gaming systems. Unfortunately, those that only have a Switch will have to look on as major releases arrive in their shiniest form elsewhere; Nintendo, as always, will focus on first-party exclusives and in developing third-party relationships for interesting alternative content.
With that we've come full circle, then. When it comes to Nintendo and home console gaming over the past 10-15 years, the more things change the more they actually stay the same.
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As long as the Nintendo Switch gets bespoke games, then there is absolutely no reason what so ever creative fellows cannot realise their visions. If they are going to start squeezing Pro and Scorpio games on to the Switch then they of course will be looked at as inferior. I am sure Fifa and Skyrim will be built with the Switch in mind.
Didn't care about xbon,didn't care about xbone 360,don't care about xbone one and I don't care about xbone Scorpio.just saying lol
"and those in the PC 'Master Race' declaring all consoles void and pointless."
Stopped reading at that because it's extremely ignorant (but from a "games journalist" what was I expecting really....) and you've just proved you know nothing about what you just tried to say. Throw some buzz words in there for good measure while you're at it.
Given HDR and such within 4k makes images look worse due to colour blindness, and the spec push allowing developers to do prettier things making things look indistinguishable as a result...it makes me wonder if they know part of the market is being lost.
To a lot of people these machines will look better
But to a lot they dont realise it looks actively inferior.
Plus, welcome to the new generation. Currently only Switch, but really, Scorpio should be too. Thats a machine that if MS keeps their stance, will never be utilised properly.
As I said in the thread. These systems as just the boxes have no USPs. The games sure, but the systems solely as they come themselves have nothing.
So how do you market it? Wave your terafloppy around and get the most powerful console marketing slogan for a few months before its wrestled back to the other system because itll inevitably false advertising when they release someghing to stop you saying that.
And because these machines are going to get bigger and bigger, it mames me wonder how long it can last as a model, because they wont be fully utilised and both parties are too busy footing about.
You want to keep the architecture guys? Do what Nintendo did with Power-PC for three systems: Make successors
I'm happy for Nintendo to carry on the path that they're on.
The Switch is awesome so far, all it needs now is more games. The portable/home console aspect is pure win in my eyes.
The Xbox One is the only console I feel burned by. Sure, it's got Rare Replay but I can play those games elsewhere... or Master Chief Collection. Same thing there. I just don't think it is a particularly good console. I don't see any point in buying the next Xbox because the last one had barely any games. At least the Wii U had fantastic exclusives.
Anyway, the way PlayStation and Xbox are going seems to be somewhat self destructive. Why bother with them when you could just get a PC? Why bother trying to be super powerful when you will never be as powerful as a PC? PC will always have more games too.
As an owner of a PlayStation 4 Pro, the additional under-the-hood performance is a welcome addition however, it is not something that makes me ignore other 'lesser' or more powerful platforms.
For me, the PlayStation 4 and Nintendo Switch combo is as good as it gets and offers the best of both worlds.
I need them all. Why should i be sattisfied with just a portion of the best there is. Its all or nothing for me.
Awesome article, this is exactly how I see it. There's no reason the Switch can't have a successful library, including third party support. I think we'll end up with something similar to the 3DS library in the end. Parity with PS4/Xbox is irrelevant.
As Reggie says: "Software drives hardware sales". We know Nintendo will have this. Apparently after cancelling most of their exclusives, the Scorpio has a lineup you can already get on a PS4, albeit a little less shiny. Will the power crazed fans buy an XB1? probably. But for the everyday fan who owns a PS4 or XB1 already, and doesn't have a 4K telly, what will they be getting to play extra for the upgrade? Not much. Even PSVR hasn't really taken off with the lack of new compelling titles being announced.
I think with a few more games announced for this year, I think the Switch will be at the top of a lot of people's Christmas lists above the XBS and PSVR.
The reason I love Nintendo is that they just do whatever they want, and the game designers are the same way.
Plus the great games!
I honestly will never understand the obsession with power for consoles.
Games are what matter to me and to me every Nintendo console has been my favorite and go to systems because of them. ( even the Wii thanks to Xenoblade, The last story, and skyward sword)
Nier and the tales of games are the only reasons I touch my ps4 ( horizon is overrated imo) and MS hasnt even given me a reason to want a scorpion or touch my one in months.
Nintendo is in a excellent spot. Can they take full advantage of it is the question.
4K Wars in my opinion is just a Big Nonsense. Kinda like a stupid Showdown.
I'm glad Nintendo keep ignoring those stupid wars between those two companies. Just keep swimming... eh, keep making Great games for Everyone, Nintendo !
@Menchi187 I'm sure it was said tongue in cheek. I'm also sure that if you claim to be a part of "PC Master Race" (I hate that term) that you probably do agree with the stance that other consoles are pointless.
Personally, I would say I'm not a "PC Master Race" guy, but I am a PC and Nintendo only gamer. Primarily because of time constraints. But this way, I get my Nintendo exclusives that I love, and I get 3rd parties/PC Exclusives on my PC. PC gaming does make me pretty much ignore these specs battles though - I don't really care what is most powerful. The PC wins. But even then, I don't care - I have and love my switch, which is the least powerful of all.
Maybe someday I'll have the time to own and play all consoles.
@roadrunner343 " I'm also sure that if you claim to be a part of "PC Master Race" (I hate that term) that you probably do agree with the stance that other consoles are pointless."
Literally the exact thing I was criticizing the author for saying for being WRONG about.....
"As it is we're in a technologically rich world, where many people have multiple gadgets and gaming systems. "
This is literally why I never understood the console wars concept. From the start, my home always had multiple consoles from the same generation, so not only is the concept of fanboy lost on me, but any argument over which is 'better' makes absolutely no sense.
Good luck to both PS4 and Xbone though. I hope they enjoy struggling with one another for the next few years.
I just personally can't wait to see what becomes of Switch when it really gets going. It has an incredibly bright future ahead and that puts a smile on my face.
@ThatNyteDaez Agreed. Console wars are something I'll never understand. Sure there people who don't have the money to spare buying multiple consoles. But defending the one console you can get like your part of the company is stupid imo.
I wish people would shut up about that and power and enjoy the games.
I think we are close to capping the power of consoles. Unless games start using cgi type graphics or go head on into the realm of vr, the old allure of next gen graphical leaps is dead. Nintendo has actually played it safe all these years because they can still play the power card in the future, and they've waited so long that a powerful Nintendo console would be a huge hit. I personally believe that those of us whose been gaming since the 80s are at the age where a new nes, snes, sega, etc.., would be preferable. Imagine Nintendo rereleasing a modern snes that was actually supported. The price of retro games can be ridiculous and I think it's the right time for someone to create a modern snes that plays old and new carts. If popular we could see a reissue of a lot of the old classics. I also believe that a modern retro console would be as big of a hit as the Wii. Games like the Disney afternoon collection, nes classic and the vc seem to be testing those waters but the problem is that they may not appeal as much to modern gamers as they would to to the non gaming mainstream public that left the hobby during the psone/2 era. Those non gamers will never know that the Disney afternoon collection exists, but a new ad campaign focused on a new modern snes would likely pull the mainstream non gaming audience back to the medium. Nostalgia is a powerful drug and as the nes classic proved its now time for an 8/64 bit competitor.
It's not the power that's important, but the games. However, if the Switch isn't powerful enough to attract to most demanding AAA games, then it becomes a problem.
@liljmoore it felt more real when my family had an NES, an SNES, two gameboys, and a Nintendo Power subscription. After my older brother got a Genesis for his 13th birthday though, we stopped being such fanboys and realized good games could be on multiple systems. I've only avoided Sony products because I committed to the xbox/nintendo route and I'm not made entirely of money. I remember how much I wanted to play Little Big Planet, but stayed my credit card hand.
I had this same talk on my podcast yesterday, but it kind of puts the switch in a viable position. My co host states "we are reaching a point of diminishing returns" and it's evident. I'm sure fortza is gonna showcase great performance on Scorpio, also Microsoft wants their console to be the console devs showcase games on.
In marketing it has worked for PS4. Better versions on PS4 has sold PS4 and Microsoft wants that. Meanwhile switch has an experience all to its own
I don't think the Switch will receive AAA demanding 3rd party games. Nintendo will need to live with niche 3rd party games, Indies and 1st party AAA games. And I'm quite alright with that.
Anyone who's actually held and played a switch knows there's no way it can compete with the big black boxes of doom. It if could, at that size, it would cost thousands. So people, and as recently shown, developers that claim they're "close in power" are dancing that line of ignorance that suggests they are in competition with X1 and PS4. They're clearly not, even if their wording tries to play it up as a home console first and foremost. Probably should work on that, nintendo.....
@Menchi187 - Some buzzwords! "diversity, paradigm shift, exit strategy, millennial, synergy, etc"
@BensonUii competition is fine. But the level of toxic it has gotten to now is unbearable and unneeded.
If Nintendo can keep making games like Zelda Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart, and Splatoon I don't care if they are a couple generations back on hardware. Even if I'd only use Switch as a dedicated TV console — and we use it off the dock all the time.
I mean personally, the big third party stuff almost doesn't matter because I only have time for a couple 100+ hour games a year at most.
As for the success of the platform overall that's a whole different set of needs and hopes, though.
As a home console the Switch is disappointing. I don't see any real noticeable difference in graphics between Wii U and Switch games. €330 plus €60 for a game, €80 for the Pro controller, €50 at least for a somewhat decently sized Micro SD card. And it lacks simple features that the Wii U has. €520 for Nintendo's second bite at this generation. So after spending all that money, can we finally have 3rd party parity? Not a hope! Some people say the solution is to buy a PS4 to enjoy the best of both worlds. So you mean I've to spend even more money because Nintendo gimped their hardware again?
Nintendo have always done their own thing and that's what makes them special, long as the quality games keep coming Nintendo will be fine.
@Peek-a-boo
Agreed. I could not abandon my PS4, but I was happy to join on the Switch train day one. The combo of both takes care of all my gaming needs and wants.
The Nintendo Switch is preffered over the PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio because it's a new system and not an "additional variation".
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Just like your comments
All that power. Jeez...I switched off that Digital Foundry thing after about 3 mins of tedium. Imagine how quickly 4k games will devour your hard drive. Or how long it will take to download the inevitable patches. Or install the games.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE If more people bought the Wii U maybe you'd have a point... but they didn't.
So, while it is a disappointment to you and that's fine, so far it is the opposite of a disappointment to Nintendo and for what may be a much wider user base that will now take the chance and play some of the Wii U games that were missed and all the new Nintendo games.
I'm a Wii U owner who loves the Wii U and the library, but I also love the Switch personally but for most Wii U owners I think waiting until the end of 2017 is a good idea, especially those who are already playing Breath of the Wild on a Wii U.
Playstation, Xbox and Switch are all intended to be platforms. The actual machine is just a device that's hooked in to the platform. Over the life of these platforms going forwards they'll all see multiple hardware options/revisions but for all 3 it's the credit cards data and active user accounts that are really valuable.
Invaluable really when they become social networks because it's hard to leave your friends behind (this is certainly what Sony and Microsoft are clearly both aiming for).
What Sony and Microsoft are doing with the Pro and the Scorpio is jostling for a clear marketing message. "This is the most powerful home console available and all third party games will look better on this machine" is amongst the clearest marketing messages there is. Microsoft (not without reason) thinks that losing that message early on with the Xbox One is a big part of the reason they've lost market share so they're making sure they put a big fat "X" on that particular summit.
Nintendo is (thankfully and at long last) going for a clear marketing message of their own but it's a different one.
I think ignoring graphical improvement and relying on it is both not a great idea. Theres nothing wrong with a good game that also looks good. I think a good game company strives to improve in all categories. Luckily nintendo has good artdesigners and often uses a kinda cellshading look. I dont expect that many demanding multiplat 3rd party games on it. I wouldnt buy them anyway because i have a pc that is better suited for those.
I think its sad that the other camps are often reduced to power. People sure love good looking games (i do). But they still want to enjoy their experience. Its not just nintendo that has good exclusives. Ok one can argue that xbox isnt needed when you have a pc. But their studios still are.
Please NL when are you going to make an 'ignore user' for the comments section. Comments that repeat themselves are not welcome and only filling the comments sections with aggravating comments.
A bit like this feature, it's all summed up in the headline.
Funny how people who don't care about power will be first in line for the Switch Pro. They also aren't buying 2010 iPhones or non HD TVs.
The sacrifices made to make this system portable aren't worth it to me. I tried playing Zelda as a handheld, but I really don't like playing that way. It was awkward (maybe because I've played 80 hrs with the pro controller). More than that, I'd rather see Zelda on the big screen.
Those that argue that "power don't matter, look at the past" are seeing in blurred vision.
If power don't matter why do all the powerful consoles now get third party support?
Oh yes, now they bring up that old nonsense about "but the Playstation was the weakest but it still got the games and sales".
Yes the PlayStation was the weakest but at least in was in the same ballpark. The graphics weren't on another planet compared to the Wii (almost always 480p, barely able to 520p max upscale- I think) and the HD consoles. There wasn't the gulf in power as is between the WiiU and the PS4/XboxOne.
I really like the Switch and still think Nintendo has an ace up their sleeves concerning the dock.
Sony can truly grab hold of Nintendo's idea and create a powerful portable (Vita) that becomes the most powerful console when docked by utilising SLI or dual graphics technology built into the dock.
If they can slim down the cost of such a console to a reasonable price I can see that taking over.
The dock can have the disc player and they can implement some secure way of transferring the games to the portable.
Let's face it. Capitalising on the innovation of others is how this whole business works.
I love my Switch so far, and always felt games were more important than power. However, the Switch should have been given enough power to run its games at 60 fps.
@Menchi187 It's not necessarily wrong. There are definitely people out there who wouldn't even dream of buying and playing a console over their PC.
Sony and Microsoft lost their money on the development of their hardware that could have been instead invested in games.
Customer base just need one piece of hardware for 5-6 years with just minor revisions (that should make the hardware cheaper, like they did with the Slim revisions). Point is they have thrown away lot of money in three big revisions (Standard, Slim/S, Pro/Scorpio) that they could have invested in actual content for the existing consoles.
Nintendo is at the opposite side, it just do minor revisions and invest a lot on games. But I suppose we will se at least one major revision to make it even less costlier and smaller.
Problem is that Sony and Micrsoft customer base isn't clever, and don't understand that they got nothing from these new hardware sets. Instead Microsoft burned all their exclusive games potential.
Still they (customers) clap their hands with the new Scorpio. "Hurray we have another skeleton to put in our closet. Clap clap clap".
Hurray...
Atm i have only a ps4 . Usually i tend to buy Nintendo consoles at launch ( n64, Gamecube, Wii) but after Wii U things have changed.
I ll wait until Mario is released next Xmass and then i ll buy a switch.
As for scorpio , i want to buy it because of Crackdown 3 and because i have tons of xbox 360 games. Unfortunately gaming is an expensive habit for me
Without SWTOR, DDO, or WoW running with keyboard access for roleplay, I can't see myself going for a console upgrade over a PC one. The advances are cosmetic for now, whereas the PC opens up more library options - particularly for MMOs and RTSs. Really hope the Switch gets a Total War game, or a tab-targetting MMO that just wouldn't work on other consoles. Might push the other players to offer alternative control options.
@Hotfusion Whether a platform gets 3rd party games or not has far more to do with whether the publishers believe it will sell. That's largely down to marketing approaches and who the install base (as much as - if not more so - than how big the install base is).
If the install base for Switch won't buy CoD it won't get it. If it would then Activision would make it happen (even if it'd be a visual downgrade).
I'm not sure that Sony or Microsoft could easily replicate something like the Switch though. At the level the Switch is pitched they'd have to be really willing to cannibalise their home console (and give their direct competition a free run in that area).
If MS is telling the truth - always a first time - and Scorpio won't get it's own games like New 3DS does, just play Xbox One games better, then Switch should be powerful enough to play all Scorpio games b/c they also have to be playable on the original X1 and Switch is close to that system in power. Sony has already said PS4 Pro won't get any of it's own games either, so it doesn't really matter how powerful Pro and Scorpio are if all of the multiplats have to play on an X1 anyway. And any exclusive game made just for Pro or Scorpio isn't going to be a multiplat so Switch was never going to get it anyway.
Pro and Scorpio will probably both be replaced holiday 2019 by 4k systems that don't need to be dumbed down to the X1 specs. So until then Switch could probably run every 3rd party multiplat being released. And when PS5 and X2 do release, for several years afyer that PS4 and X1 will still get dumbed down versions of those games that could probably play on Switch. PS3 and xbox360 still get some new games 10 years after launch. Destiny, Doom, MGSV. So really, power doesn't matter, and it won't matter, for at least 5 years. And by then Switch 2 will be out.
Also, even if Switch does fall behind in 3rd party support, which it likely will, not b/c of power but b/c devs don't feel like porting, in a year or 2 Nintendo will just position Switch to the 3DS successor it is, and exclusives like Pokémon and Monster Hunter will keep the system selling.
Power is nice for those that care, but most people care more about the games than the power.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE This horse has to be long dead now. You can stop beating it.
So sad that people limit themselves.
I own everything except a PS4 and I will be getting one later this year when Gran Turismo and Hot Shotz Golf come out.
Did the NES mini sell shloads cos it's powerful? Games games games games games games. Innovation mediated by increases in power is quite limiting. We need the industry to keep evolving and Ninty sure as he'll drive innovationand evolution. Not many of us here wanted the Switch to be an expensive powerhouse as that's not Ninty's market and it would have been DOA. Game games games games games. They have a clever, innovative and viable platform in Switch, time now for games games games. That's where their money needs to go! Can't wait for E3. Games games games
The Mega CD and the 32X failed in part due to confusing consumers but the lack of any system selling software left them high and dry.
Battle lines in an interesting analogy when going forward Sony has this massive army of software at its disposal and Nintendo has its SAS of franchises but someone forgot to wake up Microsoft's troops. Unless they have some compelling secret weapons held back for E3 that aren't Crackdown 3 then the war has already been lost.
@rjejr The switch is nowhere near the power of X1, by almost half. Half the CPU cores, half the shader count, nearly half the CPU clock speed, half the RAM. We've already seen evidence that ports of multiplatform games that run fine on X1 and PS4 are being dumbed down in terms of resolution and textures to make them playable on the Switch.
I do agree that power is nice, but games are more important. Hopefully nintendo can deliver on that front this year and the next few.
I think that people buy systems for games and the image it portrays. I think MS are way off in thinking that the public care about specs that much.
Nintendo are doing the right thing for them, which is carving out a slice of the pie with innovation. It didn't work with the Wii U but they dominated last gen with the Wii. I think the Switch will do well because people can understand the unique selling point. What is the USP of the Scorpio? Buy a big PC like box that will make things look better if you have the expensive accessories necessary to display it?
I've always been a pc/Nintendo gamer. All ps and Xbox are is a watered down pc. I don't spend much on my gaming rig anymore, since a PS4 is good enough. But anyone that think Wii U isn't hardcore like PS4, my 300 + game library and 1tb hard drive would argue otherwise. My p3/4 barely had 50 games over almost same amount of time. Even with my switch, my Wii U will stay hooked up. I even have an extra console and game pad for the sad day the main one dies. Everyone in our house uses the Wii U daily for everything from Netflix, YouTube, gaming. It's the best home console ever in my opinion, it's just not as cool as a Xbox is.
And awesome graphics = good games nowadays. My best friend I grew up playing smash on my 64 with told me that the new Zelda looks terrible and he would never play it, and back to his X1 he goes.
Breath of the Wild is simply the latest example of how Nintendo's software philosophies and hardware philosphies are continously at odds.
BotW is the most PlayStation/XBox like game Nintendo has ever made. Literally the only thing holding it back is the hardware it's available on. Just imagine BotW running on the PS4 Pro; I bet a number of the developers on that game did.
Mario Odyssey only furthers proof of this fact (Xenoblade 2 as well, FWIW, despite not being internally developed). Nintendo's software teams are going big. Like AAA epic big. Too bad their hardware folks seem to not want to ever take a loss on anything.
@ThatNyteDaez there is no struggle. Ps4 is dominating this gen with nearly 60 million consoles sold. Wii U came out a year earlier and failed with 12 million causing nintendo to make a new console dropping full support of wii u. Xbox 360 is not even at 28 million. Now that switch is its own gaming tablet now its in comp with ipad and android in which nintendo will still lose
Nintendo basically said from the beginning something like "who care about power graphics performance ? I dont want to compete with you two guys, i go on my way."
So i dont see the problem. If you get a Switch you already know that.
There is so much Sony fanboys here, write comments. Guys, seriously, why you are here in the first place ? Go, go, your dull dusty box is calling you.
@Tetsuro "Sony and Microsoft lost their money on the development of their hardware that could have been instead invested in games."
Um. Dunno where you've been the last decade but PlayStation and XBox both have PLENTY of games. Way more than Wii U had and Switch has on the horizon.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Agreed. Purely as a home console, the Switch would be a bit disappointing. As a hybrid, though, it's incredibly exciting.
Pro & Scorpio aren't a battlefield, it's a minefield. Someone's going to lose, and they're going to lose big. On one hand Scorpio outclassing Sony's hardware boxes them into a corner. On the other hand, XBox is going to be in a weird spot where their "good" hardware is going to likely be pricey and can run games WAY over the spec of the current gen consoles, but as long as games have to be hamstrung to work on X1, there's really only two possibilities for them: No games actually USE the capability of the Scorpio making it an overpriced useless toy compared to PS4 Pro that provides little more than playground bragging rights and digital peeing contests for those so inclined, OR they properly use the Scorpio as a new console platform, and games may "work" on the old X1 but clearly don't work "well" on the X1, in which case the few remaining loyal XBox customers get slapped in the face. AGAIN. The same generation. Meanwhile their "base" X1S model is still less powerful than sony's now bargain bin priced base model, with a smaller install base and less exclusives.
Either Microsoft loses big with the Scorpio being expensively ignorable, hamstrung for X1, and Sony still looks better. Or Sony loses big with the Scorpio rendering the PS4 obsolete and the Pro an insignificant improvement. Or consumers lose big with their existing consoles becoming irrelevent 3-4 years post launch as the companies try climbing over each other's tech specs and obsoleting the current models in a PRACTICAL sense (sure you can play games, but they'll run at 20fps and lack features.)
Their race is going to explode for someone. It's very ugly. I think a year ago when Battlefield and COD were still the reason to buy a console the Scorpio's improvements would have shifted the field in their favor. I think now that Sony's spent a year unloading their exclusive hitmakers Scorpio comes off as "a system that renders a portion of the 2nd tier PS4 games prettier." and loses its luster.
PS4 Pro is still a joke no matter how you slice it though.
Nintendo being in their bubble might be the best thing to happen to them with that going on. Launching Switch well after the lead balloon of the PS4 Pro, and deep in the hype of Scorpio with nary a care, and Squeenix showing more interest in Switch than Scorpio (and the recent very strong reception of various Japanese games in the West) make me think Nintendo and Sony are in the two better positions here.
@AlternateButtons I've found among my former PC Master Race compatriots (I was one once...haven't been for a long time), that the PC Master Race thing really applies to Sony/MS, starting mostly with X0 and PS3. The "wannabe PC" consoles. The contempt doesn't tend to apply to Nintendo with a lot of PC gamers buying a Nintendo to play Nintendo games (Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii with the motion aiming was the hottest buzz among PC gamers at the time...) Though I think PC gaming culture has kind of deteriorated since then.
@StuTwo
Yes, you are right, first and foremost the developers must believe that the game will be (or more likely to be) profitable on the console. This is so obvious that it not worth mentioning. It is after all common sense.
The Wii is absolute 100% proof that great sales ALONE do not automatically result in getting the very best third party support. That is an historical FACT. - Edit: After reading your post again I noticed that you acknowledged this.
You made good sense again when you said the Switch crowd won't necessarily buy COD. This is another argument that always comes up, which whilst true, avoids the reality that COD and shooters are not the only third party games out there.
You might as will say that the Switch crowd are NOT into shooters, sports, racing sims and almost every other genre that the third party develops. Apart from shovelware and party games.
I of of course speculate when I say that Sony ( I never mentioned MS) can copy aspects of the Switch.
I am not saying 100% Sony will, I do however believe it is a possibility.
Strangely enough I remember having a similar argument over a decade back when I said Sony will very likely copy motion sensing from the Wii.
I was ridiculed back then. Equally by Nintendo and Sony fanboys.
What was the question again?
I don't really feel like Nintendo is in its own bubble shielded from what is happening. They've given themselves a unique feature by honestly bowing out of the home console race. Its all portables for them now. Portables you can hook up to your TV like a Sega nomad and play with your friends. Its not meant to be a front and center leader, just a portable machine for when your ps4 and/or TV is unavailable. I'm seeing and hearing more people using it in portable mode and using it during lunch breaks than supplementing time on games like nier, mass effect, or horizon.
It will do well, but only by the virtue of its portable nature that is now canabalizing the 3ds market. Its unable to compete with the 1080p 60fps and boosted hardware which can still render more and do more even when forced down to 960p.
So Nintendo has bowed out into a market they had dominance in and doubling down to head nvidia off at the pass.
@gatorboi352 Multiplatform games that I play on my PC... I'm talking about exclusive content, and Microsoft is in a bad position there.
Nintendo Switch is going to have more exclusives by the end of the first year alone. ^^
I buy a console for the exclusive games on it.
Sony is in a better shape, still if you go look the tables The Nintendo Wii U had same exclusives in respect to PS3 even when selling like nothing and for that little time (4 years).
Just give me online/local batallion wars for the switch
@NotSoCryptic To a large degree it's true, and heading off nVidia was probably the smartest thing they could possibly have done. And made nVidia happy in the process being a contract part of the program that they were going to struggle with alone.
One could also argue though that it's not just about retreating to their safety zone of handhelds and heading off nVidia at the pass, but also accurately reading consumer electronics & entertainment trends that have been saying for a decade that stationary devices are dropping like flies and mobile is in. More people buy tablets to play games on than buy PS4s....more bought 3DS's than PS4. Microsoft itself has moved MOST aggressively into the mobile sector with their Surface line being their dominant product line beyond Windows and Office, and even above Azure itself. That XBox is doubling down on a fixed device is kind of funny given their corporate angle.
I see it as kind of everything you said, plus a reading of the market trends, plus an acknowledgement that given the power available in such a handheld (still more powerful than a WiiU), the set top "home console" boxes are kind of unnecessary outside an ever more limited demographic (plus the business aspects of unifying Japanese and Western interests and development ecosystems internally.)
Looking at the trajectory of MS/Sony....they've created a massive instability with this "mid-gen" problem and they can't back down from the arms race now. I'm not sure they can both survive this new cycle they've entered in (which is a shame, we need both of them to endure, Sony gets arrogant and abusive when they have no competition, as does MS...if one goes down gaming will suffer for a number of years), but I think Nintendo is well insulated from that and can easily grow a different market.
@Hotfusion I think there are certain genres and 3rd party games that would do really well on the Switch. In some cases these are games that didn't set the world alight on the PS4 or XBox One (Rare Replay would sell really well for instance).
As for Sony and a "hybrid" like the Switch. I'm sure it's an attractive proposition for them in theory (there's a reason why they developed the Vita) but in practice there are a few big obstacles in their way. Not least is the failure of the Vita, the massive success of the PS4 and the establishment of the Switch.
Unlike the Vita the Switch will always have great 1st party content because Nintendo needs it to be successful. They're not releasing second tier franchise entries from their second string of developers. If Sony wants to compete in that space they would need to pull resources developing exclusives for PS4 to a "PS Vita 2". And those games wouldn't be able to run on PS4 because of the very different architecture.
It's not impossible but they would have serious barriers in their way.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
"As a home console the Switch is disappointing. I don't see any noticeable difference in graphics between Wii U and Switch games"
That's a funny comment. I said the same exact thing about the PS4 an Xbox one when they launched. I didn't see much of a graphical upgrade compared to last year PS3 games. I played Gears 4 recently and even though it's a slight step up in graphical fidelity from Gears of War 3 and Judgment... it ain't that big of a jump.
As home console, I think the Switch does it's job. I just find it funny you'd expect launch title games for a console that's been advertised as being a bit more powerful then it's predecessor to graphically blow it away so early in its lifespan.
@NEStalgia Good comment again, as is often the case. One tiny niggle though: the base PS4 is not more powerful than the Xbox One S in every aspect:
PS4 has a 1.6GHz 8-core AMD custom “Jaguar” CPU and a 800MHz 1.84 Tflops GPU while the Xbox One S has a 1.75GHz 8-core AMD custom CPU and a 914MHz 1.4TFlops GPU.
So, the Xbox's CPU is better and the difference in GPU is small, also because it's faster and integrated, making it operate more in sync with the other parts of the hardware. The only other "flaw" the Xbox One S has, is that it uses DDR3 memory instead of the DDR5 that the PS4 uses.
But the Xbox One S does have one HUGE advantage for some people, and that is that it is the ONLY console to have a UHD Blu-ray drive, something that even the PS4 Pro doesn't have.
And apparently, there are 6 reasons for why you should want one instead of a PS4 Pro...
But at the end of the day, the "deluxe" versions of these two consoles will only appeal to a smaller group, that wants more performance, slightly better graphics than they already have, or they want the best VR experience that you can get on a console.
Or maybe it will indeed be for that UHD Blu-ray drive...
Let MS and Sony burn themselves up, lol. Tbh I have as much excitement and anticipation for scorpio as I have for a new 1060, 1070, 1080, ti, 460..... in other words, none at all! it's all predictable and boring, This is the stagnation that Nintendo always worked to avoid. My gaming choices right now are Switch and PC.
What Scorpio and PSPro have done, is made developers treat Console in the same way as PC. We should hopefully end up with a lot of "ensure it runs on the lowspecs, then bulk it for the higher spec" games.
I doubt anyone would wants to make a 4K monstrosity, and only sell it to the lower numbers of folk that bought the 4K systems.
Instead, I expect the 4K versions to feature higher quality assets and bulk up that way.
.. which means, IMO, developers will need to scale the games to whatever tech it's running on, which of course is a plus for Nintendo.
All that hard work.. they might as well port to the Switch. Lower spec, but if you coded it well, it should work just fine.
I have always said this: what is Xbox and PS going to do when you can't get any better in performance and graphical fidelity? They are reaching this point specially Microsoft with Scorpio. So what are they going to do next? Release new hardware with small tweaks for the "hardcore" gamer every 2-3 years? The gaming industry needs innovation if it wants to stay around. Otherwise console gaming will not last long.
@Menchi187 "In the battle over console power, so eagerly fought on Twitter and in YouTube comments sections, there'll be three sides - PS4 wins because of exclusive games and the Pro is good enough, the Scorpio wins because of its superior grunt to PS4 Pro, and those in the PC 'Master Race' declaring all consoles void and pointless."
"Stopped reading at that because it's extremely ignorant (but from a "games journalist" what was I expecting really....)"
As is made blindingly clear, the three opinions are simply prevalent ones that exist, not those held by the author. How can you "stop reading" in protest, simply because they were mentioned? Do you stop reading any news article whenever it impartially quotes someone you disagree with? If the author has begun the article with "some people think the Earth is flat", would you have stopped reading there, no matter what the following content?
It's one thing not being able to deal with people's opinions (which, admittedly, are often quite stupid). But it's another not being able to even read an article that references various opinions in order to give context into several sides of an argument.
You've completely missed the point of the article because it gave some background on the wider debate, then made a performance of "refusing to read it" based on your misinterpretation, and topped it all off with some sarky remark about "games journalists" being incompetent. It's an embarrassing trainwreck of a comment.
Or if that's too hyperbolic, it's certainly very silly; getting annoyed at someone for referencing an opinion they don't necessarily hold.
See that pic: I really hope Switch actually lives up to what that image suggests.
@Jessica286
They (both sony & microsoft) are keep continue the Showdown about graphics & Fidelity Wars, but they NEVER keep battling about delivering Games that can appeals Kids, Girls, Everyone, unlike Nintendo. They keep prove themself who can deliver the Most Notorious, Disastrous, Monstrous NSFW Games as Much as they can. They are keep battling for NSFW games, they don't care at all the games for Kids/Girls/Family oriented/Quirky. What a pathetic for both of them...
PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio exist solely for Sony and Microsoft to capitalize on their hardcore fanbase rather than reach out to new and more casual consumers like how Kinect and Move did back in 2010/2011.
PS4 Pro sales barely account for 4% of global PS4 sales. I expect the Scorpio to be similar. As of right now,
Both upgrades cater to hardcore fans and that's it.
The Switch is catering to all consumers. Whether it succeeds or not is not known yet, but its target audience is much broader than the new PS4/XBO upgrades.
@Moon
People bother with XBOX and Playstation for a variety of reasons:
-Exclusives on the systems
...
-PCs are cumbersome, large, and require time, effort, etc. that people don't want to deal with. I am in this group...I don't want to build it, maintain it, or find a place to put it (my wife wouldn't like a large box like that under our fairly open desk in the guest room). Consoles fit in my entertainment center, connect to my TV, and do not require me to learn the blasphemy that is a mouse and keyboard for control input.
...
-PCs are scary to people not familiar with the gaming side, so they don't even consider it.
...
-Unless you're Blizzard, developers concentrate on the console release before the PC, leading to things like the Batman PC debacle. These kinds of issues may keep fence-riders from going over to the PC side.
...
-Sports games. The brosephs will unlikely ever migrate to the master race anytime soon...so EA will continue to fuel their desires on consoles and keep the market alive.
...
-Some people can afford a reasonably priced laptop for school/work/personal needs. They may also be able to buy a console on sale for $250, but then adding in a gaming PC that costs 2-3 times the console (starting) and can't serve their mobile computing needs becomes a non-starter.
...
Nintendo kicked ass with the Switch. I'm of the opinion that graphics concentration can go the way of the dinosaur, so long as attention is given to making it look good enough and then focusing on gameplay and narrative elements. I have played Zelda more than any other game in recent memory (I never cared to finish Skyward Sword). Mariokart on the go will be great...and the indies coming along are perfect for filling the time in between major releases.
@NEStalgia the data on tablets is a bit misleading. The future isn't that clear cut or else we would be seeing a greater number of success stories in the mobile market. Most game developers crumble or end up selling to a bigger shark pretty quickly. Tablet performance numbers are all over the place. Not everyone is using a tegra k1, let alone an x1 which is in no mobile device. Most people use tables to get caught up on their day, not for distractions for their kids or a battery kill game of ff mobius. In fact we shield most consumers from actual usage to download numbers which are pretty awful. I'm not saying games aren't viable on tablet as some do see success and scrape along, but none are seeing the success found by indies who show up on consoles and pc.
Ps4 is doing very well with some pretty interesting projections going forward. I do not see the portable market continuing in this way as we are an interface away from abandoning our understanding of what constitutes a smart device. Hardware performance is still advancing at a pace thay far out stretches mobile to an extent that nintendo had to double down hard on the x1 just to get into throwing distance of an xbox one. Still a farcry from where they need to be and the hardware is still lagging behind by an entire generation as it always has.
I think we can both agree these mid generation refreshes are dangerous. It could slow console sales as consumers try to figure these things out. The same way the pro disrupted ps4 sales last year allowing xb1 to get some numbers in. Pro did sell well and things stabilized for sure, but it took 2 to 3 months for Sony to get consumer confidence back.
I don't feel like nintendo read the tea leafs right for hardware progression. Games like scaleboud, crackdown, the last guardian, ff15 etc are examples of this. We still have a long way to go not just in visuals, but in simulation performance. Developers are still restricted in what they can do and spend countless resources trying to reach a target through optimization. Not that optimization will ever go away, but the amount of time spent can be reduced.
This was a good move for nintendo, but I don't expect the other first parties to follow as they have much broader view of what is going on in the technology space than nintendo has.
There are 8 bit games that are way better than the newest 4k games. I hate that they're focused more on making it realistic than making it fun and playable. Don't get me wrong, there are few and far between games that actually pull this off. But 90% of them throw in good looking textures and say done, then show off screenshots of the game which just raise hopes of the actual gameplay.
It frustrates me a bit that Nintendo always comes in with lower specs. Not because I fear inferior games, just because I know everyone is going to gripe about it.
I also don't care that much that the Nintendo systems don't get the big third party titles, because most of them aren't really my thing anyway (sorry, not a big fan of "realistic humans" in games, and that's almost all they are anymore). I have a PS4 for the times they do come out with something that appeals to me, but the library grows very slowly.
I don't do any PC gaming anyway. First off, I have a Mac, which gets even fewer multi system titles than Nintendo. And even then, I have the computer for graphics and video work, not a game machine. I have no interest in sitting at a desk using a keyboard to play games, that's purely a couch or easy chair thing for me.
To each his own, though. I'm just hoping the Switch keeps it momentum so we don't have another 4-5 years hearing about Nintendo hanging by a thread. Because Sony and Microsoft make systems, but Nintendo makes games.
@Jimsbo "It frustrates me a bit that Nintendo always comes in with lower specs. Not because I fear inferior games" aaaaand I stopped reading there.
"On top of that, third-party support is relative - if the Switch becomes a hit publishers will find content that will fit the hardware, regardless of how much slower the CPU and GPU are compared to rival systems."
That's the factor many forget indeed. Does anyone remember how many PlayStation titles got Gameboy ports? Gameboy Color wasn't a big leap ahead yet the industry was motivated enough to squeeze Driver, both GTAs to date, Alone In the Dark, Resident Evil and even Heroes of Might & Magic there! Gameboy Advance saw PS2 ports and things went to town on DS which not only printed money but already had a PlayStation tier horsepower itself to boot. And that's not to mention PSP and Vita - the latter gets PS4 ports to this day because it's just big enough in Japan. As big sales-wise as PS4 itself, anyway. XD
And the gap is getting smaller. We all remember what sacrifices the first handheld ports had to make, and nowadays we can barely measure Switch versions' "inferiority" without Digital Foundry's framerate lab. Switch's midgen upgrade or successor may well reach PS4's horsepower as technology marches on - go back to 2006 today and show someone a tablet-like box with a screen that flips the bird at PS3's graphical output, - but what games will PlayStation and Xbox be offering by then? As in, beyond 4K and VR? I've read about how "Scorpio has enough power to let developers put any game on it and in 4K 60 fps", but in reality, Sony and Microsoft both market that all Pro and Scorpio games are supposed to be playable on the respective generation veterans as well. And I doubt "AAA conveyor belts" will scoff at downgrading those games from the oh so glorious 4K60FPS for a platform like PS4 with its sixty-something million userbase.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the console arms race is coming to an end by my impression. Its last frontier days will see gamers having to be constantly reminded just how superior their games are looking on their brand new PS5 or XBox Unicorn, with the human eye having to take the commercials' word for it.
And Ninty doesn't seem to have its own bubble outside the race after all but their own pace in reaching its looming finish line without breaking half the sweat, all while thinking up something new about gameplay proper.
Let us be honest.
If Nintendo would re-enter the power race at any given point and release a console beyond Scorpio, many people now saying power doesn't matter, would suddenly care about power.
Power isn't a bad thing. Any game can benefit from additional power, including Nintendo games. BotW is amazing on my Wii U, but it would be even more amazing in 1080p locked 30fps (even 60fps) with great anti-aliasing. It would be an objectively better experience.
Nintendo chooses to go the beat of their own drum. That strategy has mixed results. It's succeeded marvelously and failed miserably. Nintendo chose to exit the power race. They choose to make hardware that is different in power and concept.
None of that is bad, but Nintendo forces it's fans to defend whatever decision they make because they make such good games.
Also, depending on price and if it has mouse and keyboard support, Scorpio could be a better value than a gaming PC. $499 or less would be that. MS has sold consoles at a loss for most of it's existence. It's not unthinkable that Scorpio could be sold for a surprisingly reasonable price to woo gamers back to the Xbox brand.
Also, it won't be the Xbox One or One S holding Scorpio back. If PS4 Pro "support" is any indication, third parties will be the ones holding Scorpio back, eg: From Software's disappointing PS4 Pro patch...
@Menchi187
Owning a PC and a Switch should pretty much take care of the needs most gamers. That's what I'm doing and couldn't be happier (especially when MK arrives). Throw in a few games of Mario Run on my phone and I don't see any utility a Sony or MS purchase.
@ThanosReXXX Thanks as always!
It's kind of a wash, a barely better CPU vs a barely better GPU. The memory bandwidth limitation would in reality be more constraining than the comparative CPU bump. But it's both humorous and inexplicable that Sony....the RIGHTS HOLDER for the UHD format who sold their PSX in big numbers for it's CD drive, and PS2 in big numbers for it's DVD drive, and PS3 in big numbers for it's BD drive....is entirely ignoring UHD on PS4 Pro. Their consoles have traditionally existed primarily to sell their media formats monopoly. For MS to beat them is just weird.
I think what makes this mid-gen weird, Sonys is actually fine. The product is fine, the marketing angle is not fine. It's overpriced, it's a joke, it doesn't do what they want to say it does, but it's a "bump" for those that want it without really disrupting the PS4 too far and makes the base PS4 more attractive. It came much too soon though. MS (necessary though it may be in losing position), is going full throttle into a genuine generational jump in hardware.... And then holding it back by making it just a better graphical version of an X1. It's almost a move I'd expect from Nintendo If they made it a new platform they'd lose half their remaining customers, and if they hold it back it doesn't really need to exist, not in such an expensive format. If they sell it for $500,600 it's doomed outside a tiny niche of players that surely won't recover the investment. If they sell it for $400 or less they're probably subsidising so heavily it doesn't really matter if it sells well (then again when has that ever stopped XBox?)
It's just a weird, kind of uncomfortable move for them to make. I get what they're trying to do, but they've boxed themselves so far now. If the Scorpio's just an X1 than the X2 is going to have to be some massive $800 monstrosity to impress anyone over the "old" Scorpio. It pretty much opens the gates and lowers the drawbridge for Sony to do a PS5 whenever they'd like and "win". It seems like a kind of desperate gambit built on short term thinking. Although their situation is kind of desperate.
1S has been on the market for a while now and....well...I don't see that UHD drive, or that spiffy CPU selling too many units yet Though they're selling so well MS won't officially admit how many they've sold
@Tetsuro "Nintendo Switch is going to have more exclusives by the end of the first year alone. "
Exclusives are overrated. Wii U had more exclusives than PS4 or XB1, didn't exactly help its cause.
What is key is timed exclusive AAA western 3rd party support, in addition to having the most technically superior version of said AAA 3rd party support. This is why the PS4 is king right now, and 360 was king before that.
Switch is serving an in-between market of core 3DS supporters and Wii U fanatics. This, by definition, is a niche market.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE what 3rd party games are you even interested in?
We can all make an argument on why Nintendo should have more AAA third party support (which is essentially what you are arguing for), but bigger more powerful hardware isn't going to make AAA games flock back to Nintendo. Your argument is simply that you are not happy with the experience Nintendo gives, but wants to play Nintendo games, and don't want to (or can't, hey gaming is expensive, I get that!) open your wallet to other experiences.
It's obvious the Switch will not get a lot of the High end ports that both PS4 and XB1 share, it's just not powerful enough. Nintendo has decided this route, this is the path they want to traverse, it's upto you if you want to be a part of that experience.
I believe that Nintendo will get a lot of 3rd party support, it just might not come from the EA's of this world, because 3rd parties have become more than the $100mil budgets those larger publishers flaunt.
personally 80% of the time Nintendo first parties are what I'm after, but I have a PS4 for that 20% that I miss, mainly Square, and some other unique PS4 only games, but I can make that decision, and have no problem letting each console do its own unique thing.
@Menchi187 Except some PC gamers actually said this. I know some of them now who say consoles are pointless
@Ebefren Yeah you say them. Also they should be clearly labeled as sony fans in their signature and only allowed to post in the playstation fan thread.
I won't lie. As a tech head I'm all about the latest and greatest in specs, but I truly appreciate Nintendo's approach as well. The company is always at its best when it does its own thing and while Switch may not be the beast the Xbox One Scorpio is, the concept of going from portable to home console play is awesome and the Switch pulls it off very well.
@dew12333 It's already available, actually. It's new, so don't feel like you've overlooked it however long you've been here. "Ignore" is right next to "Reply" and "Report" in the comment box.
@NEStalgia I think they aren't going to sell that many Scorpio's anyway, considering the rumored price and the audience it's targeted at. It'll be the console to buy for the VR aficionado's (or is it going to be HoloLens in Microsoft's case?) and the people wanting ACTUAL 4K for their brand new 4K TV instead of the kind of semi-smart/semi- con artist checker-boarding solution that Sony is using. Every extra pixel they can get is coveted like there's no tomorrow, because it is all about the numbers nowadays...
And apparently, according to Phil Spencer, the 6Tflops that the Scorpio will offer are what is needed for native 4K across the board, so the PS4 Pro with it's "measly" 4.1TFlops is never going to cut it, if that's true. Or it's going to be just as difficult for them to maintain a steady resolution and frame rate as in full HD, something that they should first focus on succeeding in as a standard, if you ask me.
And that goes for all parties...
@NotSoCryptic I was talking more in the realm of hardware sales for playing than actual business viability of mobile. Mobile's a rats nest. So many (low quality) games overcrowding each other, making money as a dev there is all but impossible and is based more on advertising than on the product. But in terms of people buying the hardware with entertainment in mind, including the Kindle Fire, that's a broad swath (well, it's the bulk of what was the Wii market.)
My real point is, mobile is the tech that people are buying, and fixed stationary electronics are passe, if visible at all, in the consumer space. PS&XB are the last two dinosaurs making a go of that. The party can't last forever. Especially if Nintendo's pushing the console business into a mobile hardware form factor.
I think PS4 has those interesting projections in part due to the ongoing collapse of their main competitor, not so much due to a growing fixed-device demographic. And I would not be surprised to see either PS or XB's future move mobile going forward after this round. My main point was looking outside the video games industry, the tech market overall in the consumer space has accepted a reduction in performance for an increase in portability, and there haven't been signs of that trend reversing. It's only natural for gaming to catch up to that trend. There's an increasingly small niche of people interested in premium tethered experiences. PS4 is selling great not because it's a tethered experience but in spite of it, due to low price point and a desirable library. But the graphics arms race will hit its cap. "PC level graphics" or not, studios can only spend so much per game on making things ultra realistic and still make a profit. The console vendors need some magic rabbit to keep relevent. VR is one angle on that. Mobility is another. To be sure both MS and Sony are watching Switch very carefully. If Switch succeeds, you'll see them move their brand in a mobile direction as well, though I still believe MS is the best equipped to do that given their existing Surface products give them a lot of experience in that space. Moreso than Sony.
I'm not sure the Pro sales can be considered "selling well". I think the success story there is getting the Slim sales back on track more than any "success" of the pro
Sony's position at this point is to "do whatever it takes to maintain position" It's been working, and as a company Sony can NOT afford for that to change. So they will, I think, adopt a Nintendo-like outlook. They'll be very conservative, like the Pro, they won't take big risks. They can't afford to do anything to lose their momentum. Nintendo's in the big risk phase, but ultimately it's not so much a risk as being the only logical direction for them to go. Microsoft, at an expected 25m install base is in a mode of extreme desperation. They're in for the big risks. That means scorpio today, maybe XSurface Journey tomorrow to ignore Sony and take Switch head on at a super premium price, or just go all in and subsidize super PCs like $500 into every box (like the OG XBox) They're desperate, but also unpredictable. Sony is going to be very predictable right now unless they start slipping. Nintendo is going to keep being Nintendo....predictably unpredictable. It's hard to say they didn't read the tea leaves right going mobile while mobile tech is dominating (how many iMacs does Apple sell vs iPads and MacBooks?) Sure, it's behind tethered hardware performance, which is expected. But the gamble is: Are consumers interested in mobility and good content or the most technically impressive content even if constrained. Nintendo's bet is that most are interested in the former (and the latter are already locked to their competitors.) The bet might not pay off, but I think if Square Enix's recent comments are indicative of the industry as a whole, the 3rd parties are leery of the minority numbers around those seeking "most impressive tech." EA will no doubt go all in for power, that's kind of their corporate mantra. But most of the big publishers are interested in broader bases than small niches (let alone small niches that cost them more money to cater to). I.E. the reason they've classically ignored Nintendo is the reason they might ignore Scorpio.
The point of the Pro and Scorpio are two fold. To extend the current generation at least another 3-4 years and to better take advantage of newer 4K sets. PS3/360 got away with an eight year life cycle because of the jump to HD and slower adoption rates of those kinds of sets. The PS4/XBO didn't really have that luxury and many felt both were a bit under-powered when they launched in 2013. The mid generation upgrades are to help keep up with advancing technology the original versions could not muster.
We won't be seeing the next true generation of consoles for a few more years because it's going to take that long for PC tech to get cheap enough where they can get native 4K performance out of a cheap enough box they can sell for around $400 on day one. The days of having advanced tech out of the box at the start of a new console cycle died with the seventh generation systems because companies can't afford to spend $700-$800 on advanced tech and hope to make that money up via software sales like past console cycles. The PS3 and 360's early struggles proved that and why the PS4 and XBO were a bit underpowered and being sold pretty close to cost.
Switch actually isn't in a bad position imo. Nintendo could very easily launch an improved backwards compatible Switch in about 4 years time to come out right around the time Sony and MS might be ready to launch the true successors to the PS4 and XBO.
@impurekind Knowing Nintendo, I wouldn't read too much into that. Might just be an historic overview of all their devices, to show what has come before the Switch, just in case somebody out there has forgotten how important Nintendo once was for the industry...
I'll try to keep this short and sweet, though it's likely many of my points have been highlighted above.
I don't buy systems for horsepower and specs. I buy them for the games that are available. The more exclusives/franchises I'm interested in, the more likely I am to pick up that platform. That pretty much guarantees that I'll pick up a Nintendo system due to the franchises available. Other platforms are fine too, and I would love to get a PS4 if I had even more time to devote to gaming.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, the "numbers" game in the tech sector, at least on the internet, is severely depressing.
OTOH if either company were to win 100% of the pixel peeping numbers arms race consumers' support, they'd still be bankrupt I don't know what the price point on the Scorpio will be. Like I said, if it's $500 or above it's DOA. They might as well just "lose" the initial shipment somewhere in the Pacific and write it off They'll lose the console crowd, and the PC crowd will still laugh at them. They have to hit that $450 price point max. Not out of the realm for XBox since they historically subsidize these things straight into bankruptcy court Of course if they subsidize that much again and don't conquer the industry, I don't think Nadella's going to put up with them dragging the quarterlies down any longer. Maybe Nintendo wants to buy the rights to Halo at auction? Wait, don't they already have some sci-fi space shooter? I can't remember.
What I find most interesting is that each console seems to be almost tailor made to a specific type of gamer. I play all systems when I can, but as far as sinking hard earned cash into a system, my lifestyle and gamestyle fit Nintendo platforms the best, so I'm quite satisfied with their products, price-points, genres, etc. I remember ye olden days of the 16-bit wars, but I've dropped out of those "power" conversations at this point in my life, so I'm quite happy to stick with just Nintendo.
@RedMageLanakyn The difference really isn't all that big. The Tegra X1 is more capable than a lot of people seem to think, and it cannot really be compared 1 on 1 with the other two chipsets, so power vs yields/results should be seen proportionately.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-x1-processor.html
If you roughly equate the number of cores it has to a "normal" chipset, then you also get an 8 core chipset, at around 70 - 75% performance of the base Xbox One.
Shaders are important, but not the be all and end all, so having less of them isn't going to be a breaking point. They could simply scale down games from full HD to 720p and remove some of the more advanced graphical effects and cut down on some other things and still offer an experience that is more or less the same.
If the Wii and Wii U could have all the Call of Duty titles, then so can the Switch. And if it can have Call of Duty, then it can also have most of the other "more adult" titles, as long as developers are willing to scale them to fit, and the Switch's game engine compatibility should be a good enough incentive for them to be able to achieve that.
If Nintendo can combine that with a decent enough market share, then the games will come because that will mean that there's money to be made from making your game for the Switch...
@NEStalgia If I remember correctly, then the Scorpio is going to cost around $600, also because they want to position it as a premium product...
@ParasolStars That's the real heart of the problem of the Pro/Scorpio though. The PS4/X1 were underwhelming at launch and never lived up to the advertised specs. They rushed them both out the door because retailers and publishers wanted it to boost interest in the industry, not because they had hardware ready to sell, and as a result the early PS4/X1 sales became the Kickstarter backers for the 8th gen which is Pro/Scorpio which now finally does what the original model said it was supposed to do (if only you buy it again!)
It may keep the generation going a little longer, but that's only because they didn't properly enter the generation at the start, and are trying to "patch" the hardware later. While the companies shouldn't be subsidizing hardware (oh, Scorpio will be subsidized big time though), the idea of "keep selling it over and over to keep up with tech" only means "keeping up with PCs" which also implies they have little left to separate themselves from PCs other than being cheaper. IMO they'd have done much better to let PS4/X1 go another 1-2 years as-is, give it a respectable 5-6 year life cycle of so-so hardware, and then come out swinging with a new real platform. The mid-gen thing is going to lock them into repeating the 7th gen where it dragged on forever and left retailers and publishers in a bad spot. Scorpio would have been far more impressive in a year or two (with appropriate specs improvements for the intervening time) as an all new gaming era rather than "it's the same machine, but can look prettier...but plays the same games". Because if they're targeting Scorpio as expensive and premium, when they have X2 in a few years, it'll be "hey it looks a lot like Scorpio, but it's cheaper!"
The issue of not supporting 4K is far from as surious as not supporting the HDMI standards or having ANY digital output, which was a big deal-breaker for many with Wii.
HDMI-output from Switch is either natively 1080p or upscaled for it, and these images display pixel-perfect on 4K screens.
So people might notice that Switch has lower resolution, but the image quality won't suffer at least.
@ThanosReXXX LOL! I know, it's like....
wait...
oh, wait, you were serious??
I mean I get it as a premium product and all that, it exists to make the X1S seem attractive...ok I get it. But...wow. So, do you think they're planning to have an "incident" with a nuclear submarine "mistaking" their cargo ship with an enemy warship or something? Are there permits required to build reefs in random locations in a trench?
At that price point, given the low price of....well..everything else including the more popular platform, and the fact that it's just a "better X1S", it should sell about half as well as the Elite controller. Probably to the same customers. And with such a tiny adoption, no 3rd party would put any effort into making a supercharged version for it, it just gets the PS4Pro texture pack unless paid off to do more. If that's their target, they seriously need to subsidize it. A LOT more. Forget Saturn, at least the Neo Geo had a unique library!
@Tetsuro
"Problem is that Sony and Micrsoft customer base isn't clever, and don't understand that they got nothing from these new hardware sets"
A comment spectacular for its simultaneous arrogance and wrongness.
I think Nintendo is trying to hit a "lifestyle". so far the switch has been fricken awesome for me. all the lines I have to stand in with the kid, it just makes the lines less a pain in the butt.
anyone can make a PC (xbox or PS) and sit at home and play 4k games. but finding a way to make a home game console that can go everywhere, is just brilliant. and about time damnit
@Menchi187
I don't see the issue. I've seen PC owners say exactly that
@NEStalgia Well, I'm always serious, unless clearly designated by lots of smileys...
But Microsoft sure is serious. I got that quote from an interview with Phil Spencer himself, so he coined the phrase of them wanting to position the Scorpio as a premium product, and if the launch price of the current consoles is anything to go by, then I can't see a premium price being anything below $500.
@BiasedSonyFan
Why would anyone have an issue with a post labelling somewhere north of 50-million people 'not clever' and claiming that all of them 'got nothing' from hardware upgrades? An unproveable insinuation that any of them who claim they did is wrong? I wonder....
@dew12333
The ignore feature has been around for a while, in the same area as reply.
@BiasedSonyFan I honestly have no idea. But we're on the same page here, so no argument from me.
That is also why I just said, and will keep on saying, that you can't make a 1 on 1 comparison with the other two because the way the hardware works vs what you can get out of it, is completely different.
Which is also why I would sooner trust people actually developing on the hardware and saying things, than your random anonymous number hugger...
@BiasedSonyFan
"What's really relevant to these developers who like to complain about making video games for the Switch is if their video game has a large enough audience to allow them to make a profit, not the Switch's graphics power."
Agreed. A lot of the reasons third-parties avoided Wii U have gone. By all accounts the Switch is very easy to develop for and very easy to convert to. No quirky architecture, quick and therefore cheap development. If it gets a userbase it should get support.
Well my GBA is better than all these pretenders for its crown. Doom 2 on the go, can't beat it. It's nowhere near as powerful but gives just as much enjoyment as all this gen hardware....
Read between the lines
@Maxz That was beautiful.
@ThanosReXXX I guess the proof will be in the pudding so to speak as to how much power developers will be able to get out of the switch. I'd say the CoD example isn't a good one, considering they've been using the same engine for a decade. I'm certainly not downplaying the power within the switch, but i'm not going to stand by the statement that it's anywhere near the overall amount of power available in an X1 based on what I've seen and read. Yes, it's a custom chip, but so are the ones inside PS4 and X1, all made specifically to run games better.
You can go ahead and trust the developers that make small indies on what they think they know about "power" on any platform, but I'm much more comfortable being a "number hugger" than just taking the word of someone who's on nintendo's payroll.
The price of Scorpio will determine how much a fight it is in with the PS4 Pro, It does'nt seem like the Pro is exactly flying off the shelves either though.
@BiasedSonyFan
He has the right to say it. He has the right to be roundly mocked for it. I'm pretty clever so on my own can prove him wrong. An opinion on something like an individual perception of value can't be wrong (and remember, I have a Switch and am quite the fan but can still respect others thinking it's too expensive). An opinion labelling a large number of people as anything is on a rather stickier wicket.
@NEStalgia Ya I'm not a fan of using hardware install base numbers in such a loose way. If those were a valid metric the PC would have gotten more attention in the last 17 years than it has. It's a viable platform, but it doesn't bring in the money that the console versions do even with the licensing fees tacked on. Contrary to what Kotaku would have you believe a Geforce Ti 4400 isn't exactly going to be buying Dishonored 2. Indies do well in those conditions and Blizzard continues to find the sweet spot. Even then they tend to do better money on consoles. Like for example android has 1.4 billion hardware units roughly as of 2016, of those devices 40 million can play the latest FF title released. OF that 40 million 3.7 million download it (FF15 sold 6 million in a fraction of that time and FF14 pulls in a ton of money monthly). Of that 3.7 million only 24% are expected to keep playing the game after release and 10% of that is expected to pay money on microtransactions. Granted this isn't the highest downloaded version of the game, but it does call into question just how big of a deal mobile is.
Gonna have to cut this short sadly. I'd love to counter these points, but I think we can both agree that at some point both hardware markets will evolve into something else.
@RedMageLanakyn Never said you were one of those anonymous number huggers; that was a different comment not directed at you.
But having said that, it's hard to gauge both the intelligence and the technical know-how of people commenting anonymously online, so a lot of these people spouting all kinds of pearls of wisdom based on whatever knowledge that completely contradicts actual information from parties involved and people that are working with the hardware themselves (which definitely aren't all on Nintendo's payroll, so they're quite free to speak about their own experience with the hardware).
And I don't trust them blindly, but I'd like to think they would much sooner know what they are talking about than you, me or almost anyone else on here, safe for a few tech heads and developers that also frequent this site. And even those don't have a Switch dev kit, so...
Oh, and besides being on a smaller die, the chip in the Switch is just a bog standard X1, which in no way means that it is weak or incapable.
Here's a complete tear-down, if you're interested:
http://techinsights.com/about-techinsights/overview/blog/nintendo-switch-teardown
And just to clarify: what I actually meant with number huggers is not people that believe more in numbers than actual reports, but it is my way to poke some fun at the frame rate/resolution purists, that claim that everything below 1080p/60fps is inferior or not worth their time and money.
@BiasedSonyFan there's a bit of a difference between the market you're targeting vs. the market that is actually buying into your product.
Luckily for Nintendo, they've somewhat overshot the moon in a sense, at that, early on. But it is imperative they keep momentum at an all time high. Anecdotal I know, but i personally know of a number of Switch owners that haven't touched their console in weeks, having beat Zelda and not being remotely interested in any other offering up to this point.
@NEStalgia
Forget saturn, lol it has a far more unique library than Neo, which most of the games were fighters or vertical shooters. Also most looked and played identical. I like Neo but saturn had all the sega arcade games like virtual on, VIRTUA cop, Sega rally, fighting vipers, plus the awesome panzer dragon saga, and guardian heroes, I could keep going with many more diverse titles that Neo just wasn't capable of, for me personally I would rather forget Neo than saturn . Oh I forgot nights in to dreams and Burning rangers, shining historia, last bronx
@ThanosReXXX Right, i said before I wasn't implying the switch hardware is weak by any means. When I said X1, I was referring to the Xbox One, and now looking back on comments, i realize I probably shouldn't have used that abbreviation considering it's shared by the Tegra X1!
No offense taken from the number huggers comment, i just tend not to really trust anyone on the internet that speaks in generalities, i like to put my trust in places like Digital Foundry that are unbiased and do the tests properly. I'll certainly be checking out their comparison articles on Skyrim between Xbox and Switch!
@RedMageLanakyn Ah okay. Yeah, I suppose the abbreviation can cause some confusion. No worries, I guess we're on the same page now then, at least. I always just use the entire name, so I'd always say Xbox One, not Xbone or X1...
Nintendo's console is more accessible and cheaper to develop for compared to these two fancy PCs in disguise.
Soon - everything on SWITCH will be running in glorious 60fps at 1080p when docked - The devs will master the development skills and tools needed to do this. Creative artists will master art styles that enable SWITCH games to be more beautiful than 4K.
you will be able to play unique multiplayer games with your friends locally - more of your friends will buy one as a result of wanting to join in. . I have no regrets selling my XBone and PS4. . .
@BiasedSonyFan early sales for Wii U were right on par with these early Switch numbers shrugs
@cfgk24 can't tell if serious or not....
@gatorboi352 Wii was underpowered and with little third party support. Nintendo DS was underpowered. Etc.
Wii U saw a software drought, plus it had that stupid GamePad attachment that scared people. It was even more heavier and clunkier than the Witch in portable mode. Had bad marketing and a wrong name. That's why it didn't sold. Not because exclusives aren't key.
@electrolite77 Go to any site and you will see Xbox fanboys talking about Scorpio as a God forgetting that they have little software to run on it.
Simply there is a lot of people more fascited by the hardware than the actual games. I was one of them. Luckily I got good games with Nintendo 64 and PS2 but wouldn't be happy about how Microsoft dealt with the Xbox One afterwards.
I still care about the hardware (I like the Nintendo Switch as a concept and its OS) but far more about the software.
@ThanosReXXX "Premium" could mean a lot of things depending on how they're looking at it and where they expect pricing to be come the launch time at, presumably the holidays, though. I mean someone in the business department must be telling them there's some red flags! Premium could still be $450 compared to 1S/Slim/NSW, Pro is Premium at $400. it could also be premium at $400. I mean a $500 or the grand champion of "don't price your console here or it will fail catastrophically" $600.... Why don't they just announce digital licenses and no physical trade or resale like it's 2013 all over again? It worked so well last time....it would probably work better than $500-600 for a box that plays the same games as the 1S at 1/3 the price!
I'm not a Microsoft fan, and while I liked the 360 I'm not an XBox fan, but if they announce that price I'm going to feel genuinely sorry for them. Just because they can get away with selling a Surface Book for like $1800....I don't think this is that market....
@NintySnesMan It was actually more a reference to a prior conversation about 32x->SegaCD->Saturn and the mid-gen bump problem, along with the infamously astronomically priced Neo Geo which was also, technically, a complete failure, though it really cost SNK nothing.
By the time I'd scan read all the arguing in the comments section I'd forgotten what the article was even about.
@NEStalgia
Oh got ya, didn't realise it was related to mid gen bump comments, I got a bit ahead of myself there old chap
@NotSoCryptic Just to clarify I wasn't arguing in favor of "mobile gaming" as the ecosystem we know "mobile gaming" to be, but rather consumer preference for electronics that are mobile, at a hardware level, not that horrendous Android/iOS software ecosystem Not just Android/iOS "mobile/smart" devices but laptops versus desktops ultrabooks versus laptops, generally the consumer preference for smaller, lighter, more portable, over raw performance so long as the performance is suitable for its intent. Which is what Switch is targeting. PS4 and such might be selling well, but it's still a more niche target of "gamers" which is kind of a narrow market from the start. They just happen to have the "gamers" market almost entirely to themselves with XBox being an also-ran these days at least outside PC.
@Tetsuro can we just stop comparing things to the Wii? That thing was a lifetime ago as far as the tech industry goes. And by lifetime ago i mean pre smartphone. The Wii was lightning in a bottle. Perfect counter example: the PS2. The PS2 is simply one of many extremely successful consoles from a company.
@BiasedSonyFan even still, I am not convinced Switch is destined for long term success. Not yet anyways.
@NEStalgia I think what people are realizing now that Switch is out in the wild, is that, well it's not as portable as you'd think. Battery life and sheer physical size (plus accessories) are proving that many Switches are remaining inside the house when undocked.
@Peek-a-boo absolutely!!!
@Hotfusion "If power don't matter why do all the powerful consoles now get third party support?"
Because Nintendo failed to market and support Wii U efficiently? See my other comment in this section - rampant third party despite much weaker hardware didn't even start with Wii.
I've also asked this more than once lately: why should Nintendo be tempted to release yet another PlayStation 4 (figuratively speaking) into the markets where Microsoft's own figurative PlayStation 4 appears to have sold barely twice the Wii U numbers to date? Despite the power AND generous third party support?
@gatorboi352 This is better than a Wii. It's hardware is not that behind against the competition, ir retains every other aspect of that console and adds portability. It's gonna be a success. No one knows if it will be 'that' success but certainly it's the console more similar in concept as the Nintendo Switch.
The PlayStation 2 was a very rough console. Powerful with a very rough rendering. Everyone hated it for that.
It sold much because it got marketed very aggressively (much more than the Dreamcast), promised to make even the coffee, had a DVD player that was costlier alone (unfair competition), and in the end had very good support. Also Microsoft was hated by japanese (developers too) and GC had weaker marketing and a proprietary mini-DVD.
Today Blu-Ray players are cheap, PC are already bought and PC are already common. Playstation 4 is less interesting than the Nintendo Switch, except for the excellent support it still sports.
We will see which hardware sells the most at Christmas. That will tell if the Nintendo Switch is going to rule or if it's a modest offering like you are implying.
I don't think the Switch is some grand "dare to be different" design choice by Nintendo.
Nintendo created the Switch because portables in Japan are king. Consoles are dead there. The PS4 has barely outsold the Wii U in Japan. Say what you will, the Switch is an incredibly powerful handheld console you can seamlessly connect to your TV. Nintendo also knows it can't support 2 platforms at a time. They chose to go with their strength in handhelds.
I think Nintendo cares about other markets, but not as much as their home market. They need to stay strong in Japan and I think that is very important to Nintendo.
@nhSnork The Xbox One has shipped nearly 30m consoles (maybe more). Well past double the Wii U sales with a year less time on the market. With the Scorpio, Xbox One will sell at least 50m units by the time its all said and done.
@gatorboi352 tell me more. The size is not much bigger than a Vita and even the dock is the size of a small dictionary (people forget that it's the width of the console WITHOUT joycons) - I could carry the entire Switch set around in my bag if I wanted to! It's quite light as well. The battery life is living up to my expectations of 3DS and Vita ballpark as well, both in respective active use and sleep mode cases.
Frankly, I don't even know when it'll be the first time I go out of my way to dock the thing even for testing matters. XD
For added neat hilarity, Joycons even connect to Android without problem (in my experience; reportedly, they connect to PCs, too). There's noticeable input lag, of course, but nothing for the OS was ever geared to this controller, and some developers might actually explore this in the future. XD
@NEStalgia And that's why I said that it's only for a specific audience, and that audience also wants to feel premium and is used to paying these amounts for the equipment they want.
They were probably also early PS3 adopters...
Remember that one? $599 launch price. (or was it $699?)
And it's Microsoft we're talking about here. Who knows what will come with it. Maybe they'll throw in an entry level HoloLens and you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll put in an even higher quality UHD Drive.
It'll be expensive, but it'll be worth the asking price in some aspects. And the punters/Xbox fans that have a 4K TV will definitely want that native 4K experience that neither the original Xbox One or the S will give them. The latter only does 4K video by means of that UHD Drive.
So, it'll sell to a certain million users that are either going to upgrade or are just now going to invest in the Xbox for whatever reason. I did like that six reasons list that I gave you earlier. That list will still be true for the Scorpio as well.
And then there's also a number of "gamers" (aka idiots) that simply want to have bragging rights of having the most expensive and/or powerful console there is. And probably also brag about how they were able to afford it without having to take out a mortgage on their apartment...
This article is pointless for many reasons:
1) Switch is a handheld device.
2) Sony and MS stated before the launch of PS4/X1 that they signified the end of the standard console model/life cycle.
3) Nintendo Switch will follow suit, expect a back compatible Tegra X2 Switch in 2 years.
4) Gamers need to accept that everyone has unique tastes and every product has a market/audience regardless of size or niche.
@SharkAttackU thanks for the update, 25 million is the last figure I saw. How much Scorpio will add to that number is debatable, of course - it and Pro are both illustrations to Iwata's sentiment about "video games as niche entertainment". I can imagine more XB1 owners trading in than new adopters hooked, unless Microsoft miraculously sets a very low price - but even then, its lifetime sales will be dwarfed by PS4's unless the latter suddenly freeze in place starting now. It's still "another PS4" concept-wise, and Nintendo's big wigs have long spelled it out that they'd rather see the company be the first in something unique than second or third in a popular trend. Microsoft and Sony's unwillingness to do either is at the core of the modern console arms race itself, and to reiterate, that race is becoming evidently finite.
@gatorboi352 is surely not pocketable, but it's super portable otherwise. No less so than vita which was too compromised for its own good. Battery is only an issue with AAA type games like zelda....no worse than og/xl 3ds for "normal" games for me so far.
@gatorboi352 Ask @shiryu - I'm always totally serious
@cfgk24 Why so Shiryus?
Funny thing about bubbles... they pop.
@Shiryu Lol! I asked for dat pun didn't I !
If we based all of the consoles on power, there would be no reason to own anything but a PC. The key things that consoles offer are unique features, anti-hacking measures, and exclusives. I think Nintendo easily takes all three of those categories since they're the only console not focused on being a PC. We have a touch screen, modular controls, portability, just enough power to push to a resolution where things begin to become indistinguishable, etc for features.
When it comes to exclusives, we have some of the best ever made. There are many years since the 80's where Nintendo made exclusives that can be vamped up today, so there is the potential for 100's of 1000's of exclusive games that actually use these features. For instance, Wii and Switch actually push for the use of motion controls, very little PS4 and Xbox games utilize these features even though it makes aiming as superior as a PC mouse. Once I played with the gyro in the Steam controller and Wii U gamepad, I couldn't bear going back to the dualshock or xbox controller.
PS4 OR XBOXONE MAY HAVE MORE POWER, BUT THE QUALITY OF WII U GRAPHICS (HD, FRAME RATES AND CLEARITY) MUST BE BELIEVED TO BE GREAT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE EYE CAN SEE.
OTHERS COULD HAVE A MORE POWERFUL CONSOLE, BUT THE QUALITY OF THE GRAPHICS I SAW IN SOME WII U GAMES, IS BETTER THAN MANY OTHER CONSOLE GAMES. A GOOD EXAMPLE IS MARIO 3D WORLD, BAYONETTA 2, MARIO KART 8, AND DK TROPICAL FREEZE.
THE VERACITY IS THAT ALL CONSOLES HAVE GRAPHICS. I MEAN PS4, XBOXONE, AND SWITCH. WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS THE GAMEPLAY, GAME QUALITY, VARIETIES FOR ALL AGES, AND HARDWARE QUALITY.
HERE IS A JOKE FOR EVERYONE " TOO MUCH GRAPHICS COULD BURST THE EYE SO STICK TO COLOURFUL AVERAGE." HUM HUM HU HA HA HA HA!!!
@BensonUii oh man football and basketball fight are truly stupid.
So your team lost get over it. No need for fistacuffs or smashing you $400 tv
PFFFFFT! "The 4K wars"... Hahaha! Neither of the two can natively render at 4K/2160p with a decent frame rate! You need at least a mid range $800+ PC for that! It's more like the "4K checkerboard checkers match." (And yes, the PS4 is on the left side with RapCat. )They can natively render at 2K/1440p, which isn't bad at all, but it's not a huge leap over 1080p. Certainly nowhere near the leaps of console generations of yore.
Nintendo was smart to hold off on the power front this time around. We won't truly be able to take advantage of 4K/2160p until qdLED, native HDR, IPS-NEO monitors and TV's are produced, anyways. The closest one can get right now to maximizing the vaunted resolution are with those newer OLED TV's that almost no one can afford. So unless a pricing and manufacturing breakthrough is made there, quantum dot is the future. In three to four years.
Nintendo has plenty of time to ensure their next system will work well with those future displays. For now, just let Sony and Microsoft duke it out over an illusory battlefield.
@Aybeee Cool it with the shrooms. I know you want to do the Mario, but some things like that are best left to the professionals.
@liljmoore You poor, ignorant bumpkin. Didn't you know that a fight over a fütball game is going to be the catalyst for igniting World War 3? I know, it's crazy, but hey, where better for it to kick off from?
@gatorboi352 @NEStalgia What do you mean? The NS is very pocketable. For women.
@BiasedSonyFan oh well i definitely agree there.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
The cost for the accessories and must-haves is quite daunting. The actual system itself isn't overpriced in my opinion but the lack of storage, launch game (Etc) add up fast. I do agree with that but I have hope those prices will come down. The PS4 and Xbox were expensive several years ago but they are cheaper now. Same with the 3DS (and another price cut could come, too).
As usual though, the rest of your argument is just negative and anti-Nintendo. I still have no idea why a Sony/Xbox Fanboy Troll would want to spend sooooooo much time on a Nintendo website. Beyond me.... but you are a consistent chap and I'll give you that.
Lots of third party games will come to Switch but the ones seeking AAA graphics wont. Nintendo hasn't been about graphics for a long time so I'm not sure why you keep beating that dead horse (to borrow from someone earlier). It's about the experiences and games. No one confused an iPad for an iMac but having the ability to take it everywhere caused it to sell well. Yes, the Switch has the ability to be a home console but that's just one feature. It's portability is impressive. Add in the fact that you will be able to play AAA Nintendo titles that are the envy of most publishers and you get a solid gaming experience.
Your arguments barely have merit anymore and you're just so negative. In the voice of Disney.....let it go!!!! let it go!!!
Nintendo is always about games. Pro and Scorpio means nothing to me, and I can't see these updated consoles ever succeeding. Graphics whores will always stick with PC because they need to keep upgrading to support their geekwank tendencies. For big cross system games, you're most likely to have a basic PS4 or XB anyway, especially that they are so cheap these days. If MS really pushes Scorpio, it's only because they are losing to Sony. The problem remains of who is their market? Console gamers intent on the best graphics? There are only a few. Consoles succeed because of mainstream, mass market appeal, not appealing to a niche.
I'd dispute the list of other consoles getting mid cycle upgrades. They are handhelds! It's a totally different market and they are typically replacement machines sold at the regular price. Example: New 3DS is not sold sitting next to 3DS as the more expensive "pro" option. It's the latest 3DS model and has replaced the old one.
Can anyone recommend some games that really push the technical limits of their respective machines. They don't have to be fun or interesting or have good gameplay or anything like that. Just shiny graphics will do. That's all that matters
Nintendo is clearly out of the picture when it comes to gaming on the big screen. They should leave that to the big boys at Sony & Microsoft and simply focus on two things: portable gaming; and developing games for their rivals. Switch was poorly made and full of problems and it's just sad watching the company struggle like that.
@Nintendofan83 "I still have no idea why a Sony/Xbox Fanboy Troll would want to spend sooooooo much time on a Nintendo website."
Well you got 1 thing right, you have no idea what you're talking about. I couldn't care less about Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo deserve criticism for their mistakes, however, and as a fan I express where they should make improvements.
There isn't any competition between Switch and PS4/XboxOne, since the Switch is a lot weaker (and doesn't have proper third-party support). As for Scorpio and Ps4-pro: As far as I know they are just souped up versions of the XboxOne and PS4. Fun for people who have a super expensive 4k tv and are obsessed with resolutions, I guess!
@Fbigabig @SpacemanSpiff
I see it now, that's a beauty thanks. Now I just need no one to reply to them so I don't have to get the gist of their comment, fingers crossed.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE "Nintendo deserve criticism for their mistakes, however, and as a fan I express where they should make improvements."
Yep, to a bunch of people who don't want to hear you and don't care, that's really going to make a difference. I suggest talking to Nintendo themselves.
@Nomad
Um... Graphic is Not everything. Even some games with very OMG Ultra HD graphics still can't impress everyone. One example, FF 13. Graphics ? OMG HD. Gameplay ? BLAH...! FF 12 still have better gameplay than FF 13.
Don't get blinded by HD graphics too much. Not guarantee to have better gameplay & Replay value.
For me, in my opinion, Miitopia 3DS is even better than FF 15, not because of Graphics, but the Gameplay. FF 15 deliver OMG Ultra HD graphics But it was Lame, Not attractive, Too Realistic, Not funny, Not entertaining. Miitopia was simply Hilarious, ROFL RPG with some Surprising Twist. I laughed so hard and fascinated by the Gameplay's Charm, the way to play on Miitopia sounds interesting rather than boring FF 15.
Sorry, no offense. Just only my opinion.
I am going to wait and see what Nintendo has in store for us at E3 considering they said they have big plans. Personally i believe games can be optimized for different consoles just depends if the developers want to put in the work or not. Imo, 1080p and 4k look the same to me. People only claim they look different cause they know of the hardware differences in the consoles.
"those that only have a Switch will have to look on as major releases arrive in their shiniest form elsewhere"
But let's not forget that those shinier platforms are missing out on the major releases only available on Nintendo. It's really down to which games, and which way to play, suit the consumer best.
Just like PS4 Pro, Scorpio will launch and sputter. Who's the market? Existing XBO owners? Why upgrade, especially since most people dont even own $1k 4k TVs to justify it? Scorpio doesn't offer new software and there's really no reason to spend several hundred dollars just for games to be slightly prettier.
Microsoft should have been investing that money in exclusives instead. I played Halo Wars 2 and beat it in 5 hrs, and I haven't otherwise seen a reason to use my XBO for quite a while now
Really, someone can own a PS4 & Switch, with a decent PC which most people have anyway, and get nearly everything these days. Microsoft's "exclusives" are playable on PC now anyway and they dont even want you to buy an Xbox anymore
@Nintendofan83
"It's about the experiences and games."
What does a statement like this even mean? Please quantify this.
Also, if it's about the "games", then why would someone pick up a Switch?
NGTOW?
As MS and Sony fight to become more alike the wondrous thing about all of this is parity. Switch has closer parity to the 4 and one (than that wiiu did) meaning that we may get more 3rd party heavy hitters if sales continue to do well and with the twins trying to be PC more games are going to PC meaning hopefully next Gen (which I consider the switch a new gen starter) I can trim at least one box. More money for games and other things! Win win for me.
@Aybeee You left your caps lock on there bud.
@Peek-a-boo "For me, the PlayStation 4 and Nintendo Switch combo is as good as it gets and offers the best of both worlds."
I think that Nintendo is relying on the fact that many people will want to have Switch as their "other" machine for portable gaming in the future. I know lots of people that have a PS4 or X-Box and also have a 3DS. In the future it will PS4 or X-Box (or PC) 4K gaming at home and a Switch for road trips, waiting rooms and Nintendo 1st party games like Mario and Zelda.
On top of that, of course, will be the family market that Nintendo has always done well in and the die-hard Nintendo fans who are happy to own whatever machine allows them to play Nintendo's games, even if it is not as powerful as the competition.
There is lots of room in the market for Switch to do well.
@Ryu_Niiyama My bingo card is looking real good right now...so close on two lines...
@WiltonRoots hahaha! I hadn't bothered to check at this point; just reading five comments above my own and I was like "nope, I'm out".
Yeah Nintendo told us we didn't need 16:9 wide-screen until 10 years after the wide-screen revolution - made it a sales pitch for their Wii games.
They then proceeded to tell us there was no difference between 480i and 1080P during the HD revolution.
They wouldn't leave midi soundtracks until 20 years after the MP3 revolution.
@Ryu_Niiyama Need to bang out an E3 edition...
@WiltonRoots Please post it in the e3 thread. We need another common board.
@Anti-Matter Hi, sorry if my sarcasm didn't come through in my comment. I'm really not the kind of gamer who is into the latest graphics and tech specs. I actually think it's kind of sad that a large portion of the games industry seems to be obsessed with it.
4k is overrated.
@liveswired Hey why did you delete the comment below to me?
"You another fanboy with your head up Nintendo's mysteriously gaping ass??! 😁 😁 😁
As a Nintendo system owner since 1985 I can tell you now that after tolerating their disgraceful business behaviour, price fixing scandals and many other things over the years we are more than entitled to vent.
The purpose of boards is to express opinions and poke fun at people with no sense of humour.
How boring would this place be if we were all polite abiding fanboys???"
You take this stuff waaaaay too seriously. Talk about no sense of humour....lol. All these years of anger and you didn't think once of contacting the source of your rage?
Spineless.
@WiltonRoots
You can do both. On a site like this it's called a discussion. Comments that are positive and negative about the subject are welcome. Look it up maybe.
@electrolite77 I enjoy reading some of the discussion on here... @BiasedSonyFan @NEStalgia @JaxonH and numerous others provide great well-worded intelligent back and forth with people without it sounding like a so-called "fanboy teaparty". They also don't overreact or act like hormonal teenagers with what they write. But hey. Life's too short for people to be so wound up.
@WiltonRoots LMAO!!!! I didn't delete it fanboy.
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