The dust has settled on the big reveal of the Nintendo Switch and while we're almost certain to see more software support confirmed for the console before launch day arrives, it's hard to ignore the feeling that history is repeating itself, at least when it comes to third party support. Companies like EA, Capcom, Ubisoft and Konami pledged their support for the Switch, but the currently-confirmed lineup is a cautious one to say the least. Capcom is essentially giving us a spruced-up version of an Xbox Live and PSN download from 2008, while Ubisoft - a firm keen to make a big splash with Nintendo launches when it came to exclusives in the past - is only able to muster three titles, all of which are already available on other systems; heck, Rayman Legends was originally conceived as a Wii U exclusive in 2012 - almost five years ago.
Even the presentation itself was full of uncertainty. Sega - which, like Ubisoft, is bringing multi-platform titles to the Switch in the shape of Puyo Puyo Tetris, Sonic Mania and Project Sonic 2017 - sent along Toshihiro Nagoshi, who said how excited he and his company were about the Switch, but stopped short of actually confirming the names of any new and exclusive games currently in development; unless Sega is deliberately holding back at Nintendo's behest, that's not a great sign. Then there was our old friend EA, which took to the stage to confirm that Switch would be getting a "custom built" version of FIFA, its most popular series. In an interview following the presentation, EA's executive vice president Patrick Söderlund stated that:
This is our way of showing we're going to be there. We're supporting the platform. We are not announcing anything [else] yet, but you can expect us to be there once the platform launches and takes off.
While Söderlund is mostly positive about the new system, it's easy to read between the lines and pick out the clear note of caution in his words. Not having anything else to announce and waiting for the console to "take off" could easily be translated as "We're only going to bring more games to Switch if it's a big seller". This rather pessimistic stance could well be a case of misconstruing his meaning, but it has nevertheless been latched onto by some news outlets, who seemingly cite it as evidence that the Switch is cursed to suffer the same fate as the Wii U - it will get amazing first party games from Nintendo and its connected studios, but third party support? Forget it.
Naturally, this encourages the usual wave of negative press for these publishers. Ubisoft, despite being one of Nintendo's most staunch supporters during the Wii U era, came under heavy fire for making Rayman Legends multi-platform and releasing Watch Dogs later than other versions - the latter being a gesture that few other third parties would have even bothered to have undertaken, given the Wii U's torrid commercial standing at the time. Fast forward to the present, and these companies are already being criticised for not giving the Switch the support it deserves; gamers want promises to ensure that they feel good about making a purchase in March, and EA's (apparent) stance of "wait and see" doesn't instill confidence, nor does the fact that companies like Sega and Ubisoft are apparently just crapping out multi-format ports to test the waters.
Companies such as EA, Ubisoft, Capcom and Konami don't owe Nintendo, the Switch or fans anything; they're in this business to make money
There's nothing that boosts the feel-good factor of a new system purchase than the anticipation of getting to play a wide range of games, but companies such as EA, Ubisoft, Capcom and Konami don't owe Nintendo, the Switch or fans anything; they're in this business to make money, as mercenary as that sounds. Sure, the developers at these firms will publicly state how excited they are to be challenged by a console which promises innovation and does something different to its rivals, but this desire is quickly tempered by the harsh reality of business - basically, if your games don't sell well on a particular platform or that platform's install base is low, then it's going to become a lot less attractive when compared to those (more traditional) consoles which can offer a massive potential audience. There's nothing complex about this situation, and it always puzzles me as to why fans seem to be so blind to this fairly obvious reality. Third-party support does sell systems, that is true - but those same third-parties aren't doing this to generate user interest in a console - they go where the money is, pure and simple.
The responsibility of "selling" a home console lies entirely with the console maker itself, and always has done. It's Nintendo's job to convince millions of people to part with their cash, thereby ensuring that Switch has a wide and varied selection of third-party software due to its attractiveness as a popular platform on which to generate revenue. This is achieved by making the console easy to develop for (by all accounts, this seems to be the case with Switch), making sure developers have the tools to create content (given that we still have some announcements this year, it's perhaps too early to say if Nintendo has nailed that one) and releasing the system at a price point which means it has enough momentum out of the gate to convince publishers and developers that they should have their games on it.
Some would argue that Nintendo has already dropped the ball on the pricing element; the Switch may be a unique proposition as it offers both domestic and portable play, but at $299 / £280, it is perhaps a little out of that "golden" price range which ensures a steady flow of sales - the Wii got this right, and quickly racked up a big install base, one of the key reasons for its overall success. On the other points, the jury is still out; as I said at the beginning of this piece, I highly doubt we've seen every game that will be coming on the Switch in 2017. Nintendo has mentioned very little about indie eShop games (we know more are coming) and we have E3 later in the year, a platform where Nintendo is almost certain to announce more games - albeit some which might not be launching this year. And let's not forget that the Switch should hopefully soak up the first and third party development support traditionally earmarked for the 3DS, which in theory will translate into some excellent games.
The point is that when you're coming off the back of your most underperforming home console ever, you need to pull out all the stops to make sure your next venture is a runaway success. Nintendo and its fans shouldn't be looking to the likes of EA and Ubisoft to carry the Switch through 2017 and make it a triumph; just like your average person on the street, these companies need to be convinced before they will part with their development budgets and start creating content for Switch - and that job is solely Nintendo's. Attempting to place that responsibility in the hands of external parties which in the grand scheme of things have no genuine concern in Nintendo's fortunes - beyond making money on their systems - is a foolish move, and one which gaming fandom and the wider gaming press needs to avoid making time and time again.
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Welp, when your system isn't powerful enough to painlessly port AAA games on other systems from third parties you already have an uphill battle on your hands
@Stargazer If the audience is there that doesn't matter. Devs and publishers will make the effort to chase the money, simple as that.
The Switch needs games, games, and more games. That is what sells systems above anything else, and thus, that brings in the third parties. If they have a strong E3, things will probably be pretty good for the Switch. If not, who knows. Some proper marketing would certainly be a big help, too.
Ultimately, people need to stop judging the Switch for it's "lack of software" in the first year. It looks like a lack of software because we don't KNOW all the software. Far from it. We'll hear about more games in the coming weeks and at E3. So please, reserve your judgement on that, everyone.
I'm buying a switch for Nintendo games, I couldn't care less about third party games.
The success or failure of the Switch comes solely down to Nintendo, as was the case with the Wii U.
I'll be amazed if the Switch doesn't suffer a similar outcome. Nintendo can make great games, but their business strategies are frequently incompetent and hard to fathom the logic behind.
They really have a poor barometer for gauging the mood and inclinations of gamers.
@Damo Chicken or the egg? Why would the audience be there if the games they want aren't?
It's the final chapter and who doesn't want to own Nintendo's last and final console ever?
It shouldn't rely on them but if their in the business to make money the shouldn't realise have gimmicky controled games on the system then blame people not buying them, if they support the system properly and produce proper games and give people chance to buy them then not only will they make money but the fan Base will also build, I don't own 2 home consoles and never will so will only buy games that I think have been made with effort rather then oh it's nintendo the players will want this rather then the game we are realising on other systems fifa is prime example of this
@Aneira We don't know it's their last console. One failed console doesn't mean they're out of the business for good.
And let the nintendo fans start putting the blame on others instead of nintendo!!!!
Love that statement into the article, because it shows that the fans are just that...fans. Nintendo never seems to get the blame, and it has been their faults for a while. They don't care, as long as their system sells and their games sell, they could care less about the other companies, which it's been like after the Super NES era. You would have thought that they would have learned their lesson, in the fact that they can't sell a console based solely on just their games (the Wii U proved it)...even the 3DS seemed to lack 3rd party support these past few years, and nintendo can't continue to DROUGHT their systems every month. Other than that, I really don't see the Switch being the Wii successor, but I see it selling pretty good and a lot better than the Wii U and Gamecube, but it'll be in the N64 category with games and 3rd parties. The next console will prove everything else. It's all nintendo and comes down to just nintendo on if they want the switch to be a hit or failure. Proper commercials can help them...advertise the system during the super bowl, add commercials to popular television shows (not just the kid-friendly ones and kid-friendly games)...advertise your 3rd party titles instead of hiding them away, and do more than just internet and online presentations. Then nintendo should be listening to someone else...their fans! The fans have been asking for numerous games and console abilities, and nintendo doesn't seem to take a hint and deliver. Wii U was missing a great Animal crossing game...never came, instead bringing Amiibo Festival which sold poorly. Metroid...no go, F-zero...no go, Zelda (a new adventure)...4 years later, a Mario Adventure like Mario 64 or Mario Galaxy...next console (switch, not Wii U). The fact is, nintendo isn't listening to anyone but themselves, and that's what is basically hurting them. They have excellent IP's, and when the games come out, they deliver, but they have many wrongs that they need to deal with in order to bring back the audience that was there for them in the NES, Super NES, N64 and even the Gamecube eras...lots of work. I'm still not fully convinced on the Switch, not getting it on day one this time, but waiting almost a year later to see what happens with it...the Wii U disappointed me too much, and the 3DS started to this past year (nothing that I've wanted or seen on it for a while, and the virtual console on the 3DS seemed to stop). Come on, nintendo, make me love your consoles again! It's been since the Gamecube that I've truly loved a nintendo console.
While it is Nintendo's job to make a system that is easy to work with, games companies need to make games. That is what sells gaming systems. You can't put modified, late, gimped ports and cull DLC and then point the finger at the consumer (or even the hardware maker in some respects) and say "see this is your fault".
If EA and the rest were putting out many of the same games on all the systems a la the Gamecube/xbox/ps2 era then sure you have some data to analyze trends per system. However that isn't what happened. With the wii I can understand to a point. The system was VASTLY different than the competition but even with it printing money the 3rd party devs still acted hesitant. Can't put the exact same game? Where are the spin offs (that don't suck) or the exclusives? And if you do make exclusives and/or spin offs those why aren't they varied? EA's output on the Wii was very cutesy and lets copy the mii craze. Heck if all devs cared about was the money/install base then EA and co would have been all over the 3ds. Yet they weren't.
Nintendo is going all in on the Switch yet I am still hearing a ton of PR spin from 3rd parties. Where are your games? Yet when the ps4 and xbone were pipe dreams devs were falling all over themselves to announce games. No one is going to play your games if you don't make games. Even with the wiiu's horrible numbers the system had a pretty good attach rate for software. Make games...full stop.
@Stargazer There's an element of that, but why should the onus be on third parties? With the NES, Nintendo led the charge. With the SNES, it was Nintendo again who showed what the machine could do with F-Zero and SMW, although in that case the company had a lot of goodwill from the NES days, which ensured decent third party support. N64 again relied on Nintendo doing the heavy lifting, at least at launch, while with Wii, it was arguably Nintendo's own Wii Sports (combined with a low price and interesting control system) which convinced people to buy in their millions and therefore secure the interest of third parties.
My point is that while third party software is undeniably important, those same third parties aren't duty-bound to make sure Switch is a success. That's Nintendo's job.
@KirbyTheVampire Honestly, this feels like the machine Nintendo has been building up to for their entire career. They might create more powerful hybrids in the future if the Switch does well, but I can't help but think this is the end of the console-as-concept era for Nintendo.
@Aneira It won't be. They have way more money than Sony and Microsoft combined. Even if the Switch fails, they've got the 3DS to back up on, which is probably why they're not killing the 3DS at the moment. They can create another console...it took Sega many consoles before they ended (32X, CD, Game Gear, Dreamcast) and Atari had it's run in (Jaguar and their handheld one)...Sony and Microsoft have even struggled on a few consoles and accessories for them, but they came back into the game. Sony was falling behind with the PS3 but rose back to fame with the PS4...Microsoft wasn't doing too hot with the original Xbox, rose to fame with the 360 and doing alright (just alright) with the One. Sega basically only had the Genesis sending them wealth, and Atari only had their original console. Nintendo has had success with the NES, Super NES, N64 and the Wii and all of their handhelds, so they have a pretty good chance of staying in the market for quite a long time!
@KirbyTheVampire
Two failed consoles in a row does. We'll have to wait and see. I say it's a solid bet.
@Aneira ...Two? Where was the other failure? Virtual Boy doesn't count.
@Ryu_Niiyama What doesn't help in the Switch's case is the fact that it's clearly not powerful enough to handle PS4 and XB1 games, so the idea of releasing a title on all three at the same time is out of the window. We're always going to get scaled-down versions or last-gen ports. That's not really the fault of third parties, that's just a fact of life when you make a system which doesn't have technical parity with its rivals.
On the topic of exclusives, the moment you start talking about that you have to factor in a wide range of variables. Going exclusive carries considerable risk for the dev / publisher, as they are limiting the potential profit they can make on that game. This is why we're increasingly seeing exclusives on PS4 and XB1 only come about when Sony or MS are willing to dig deep and support the project (as was the case with Street Fighter V). Now ask yourself - if you were a third party and you had X amount to invest in developing a game, would you spread that across two versions (and possibly a PC edition) or would you place it all on a single console which has zero install base right now and therefore represents something of an unknown quantity?
I hate to say it, but any publisher / dev which creates an entirely new game for Switch at launch wouldn't be following good business sense. It's too much of a risk when PS4 and XB1 already offer a massive audience right here, right now. However, in six month's time that may well be entirely different - Switch might fly out of the gate (I hope it does) and then we'll see publishers getting interested due to the potential (new) audience.
Absolutely spot on. Nintendo blamed developers for not using the WiiU gamepad properly. But Nintendo failed to show how it was a must have for games. They barely added it to their own games.
Take away the games that can be played on other consoles and what is the Switch left with?
By the time a developer decides to make an original game, we are a long ways off from seeing it. Even inferior ports will take time.
Nintendo entered a very difficult market that recently kicked its ass. They needed to come out swinging. Pull out all the stops. Take some acceptable losses here and there. What have they been working on? Not WiiU or 3DS home runs. If they are the primary source for a console, they need a much bigger staff (that should have been in place years ago).
@Damo Well I gave your co-worker TW a hard time for putting "Blunder" in the title I should say I like you putting "Success" in the title b/c you could have easily replaced "Success" w/ "Failure" and the title and article would still read the same but the implication would be different.
Nice read. Agreed.
"you can expect us to be there once the platform launches and takes off."
When somebody actually says the words "take off" you don't have to read between the lines, he said what's between the lines, he didn't stop at "launch", he actually came out and said "takes off". There's nothing left between the lines to read, he was upfront about it. It is up to Nintendo now as you say.
On the bright side - UK tv ad and signs up in retailers and pre-orders available. They are at least trying to market it it seems.
Personally I'd love them to court tablet games as well, I'd love football manager on it.
I'm a gamer.
I value fun video games, and I value playing them in as many ways as possible.
I don't know the Switch's future, but what I do know is that I love Splatoon. What I do know is that I love Fire Emblem. What I do know is that I love Mario, and have wanted an open world for a long time. What I do know is that I love far more than just AAA. And what matters most to me is games, not any one particular type of game.
I'm buying a Switch because I want to play the games it offers. The exclusives it offers, certainly. And it may not get a whole lot of 3rd party games. But any that it does get, I want em. Even just for portability.
I was willing to pay $350 for Wii U to experience Nintendo's games, and I'm willing to spend the same for Switch to play their games. Only this time, the games should be better (Fire Emblem, thank you! Come on new console Monster Hunter!) and all games, 1st or 3rd party, get to be played anywhere without conceding graphics or cramped button layout as on handhelds.
In the end, buy it or don't, but let's stop with the Miss Cleo tarot card predictions. It's getting close to launch and it'd be nice to actually start talking about the games, and the experience. Like playing Sonic Mania, which we didn't think we were getting, and the fact it's playable on the go.
I'm ready to talk about the games already.
@Aneira the switch hasn't failed. It's not even out yet.
You know what ? Some of those developers didn't even give their best effort for their games to Nintendo. Let's say EA, with their games on Wii before, MySims. At first, I fell in love with those cute Chibi form, strong reason for buy Wii when I heard EA colaborated with Japanese peoples. At first concept, that game looked promising, looked like Animal Crossing ala The Sims. But when the game released, there were sooo.... many aspects unused. MySims Wii looks interesting and cute but with only TWO tasks : Collect Essences and Build things, my impressions was mixed up between excited and disappointed. The games looked sooo.... boring as hell for overall but still charming enough to cheer me from my disappointment but still... EA keep made another excuses, released another MySims with even worse gameplay. I found the raw concept of My Sims franchises were amazing but EA with their tardiness, removed soooo.... many aspects during beta trailer and finished version. So I wonder if EA can keep their promises when making their games for Nintendo. From EA, I just want The Sims 4 or any citeute games from them (As long no boring gameplay) or I will choose Animal Crossing Switch version for my best choice of Life Simulation games.
I think people are forgetting the stigma attacted to the name Nintendo aka "a kiddie console". If they decided to compete technically against Sony and MS, they will fail as they did during the N64 / GameCube era. Even though they were getting big 3rd titles, they weren't selling as well on the GameCube because of the kiddie image.
They have to do something different to survive - there isn't a market for 3 similar type of consoles (look at what happened to the DreamCast). I do hope Nintendo succeed but they could be doing some things better to help it's future.
@Ryu_Niiyama exactly! Why would I pay for Hamburger Helper, when I want to eat steak?! I'm not going to pay for a half-asses game made by some third party for $60, when I can just buy first party titles that will give me my bang for my bucks!
Actually it will be up to stockholders. FIFA will be $60 on the Switch and $60 on PS4 and Xbox1, the cost to develop assets for PS4 are higher, then adjust them for Xbox1 is more money. The Switch is less to develop assets for because they aren't as high def and you can downgrade them for phone and tablets (Nvidia Tegra is ARM based, just like phones and tablets).
So you can spend a ton of money for a big user base to pay 60 and port to a slightly smaller user base, or you can pay less money to support a system that gives you a higher profit margin and then port to the largest user base.
It like looking back and betting that Crysis was going to make more money than The Sims. Nintendo out EA in a corner by appealing to Shareholders.
This is why it's so frustrating seeing Nintendo mistep, and it annoys me to no end when people say things like 'it's up to Netflix to ensure their app is on Switch'. No. No it's not. Just with like Wii U, Nintendo has proved itself incapable of doing business with other companies.
Which is a shame because the Switch is a good concept, but Nintendo is sending it out to die with no games/no standard features/premium price.
@Ralizah Yeah, that could be. A regular console would seem lame in comparison, unless it had some new functions that people actually cared about, unlike the Wii U Gamepad.
@Aneira There's no way the Switch could ever bomb as hard as the Wii U did. I would be very surprised if it didn't outsell the Gamecube by a good amount.
I think Nintendo knows what they are doing here. I think we will get more game announcements before it launches. I think the current price without packin is for heat seekers like me who buys new consoles day one and cares about early adopters perks like the 50 cent vc games or the deluxe program on the wiiu. I also think it creates a buffer for a holiday price drop for the game less sku and the MARIO game will be a pack in for the regular sku. The extra money they collect before the holidays will help cover r and d.
Despite all, I don't see the Switch failing because is portable and Nintendo is king there. But a price drop might happen. The year one lineup is great honestly.
@Stargazer Agreed. I don't think we will se any 3rd party AAA games on the switch, unless you count the old once ------> Skyrim
@Judgedean
If I heard people keep insulting Nintendo is a Kiddie machine, especially me as a Kiddie gamer too, I will reply "I'm Kiddie gamer and so What ? Even Kiddie can kick your butt !"
Remember Girls Mode 3 for 3DS ? During April 2015, ALL hails to Girlie games from Nintendo. Even some adult ps4 games for April 2015 stayed on number 2 and lower. Kiddie or Girlie can kick some butts actually.
FYI. This article is not really news is it?
@Damo great read. Really good points.
@Anti-Matter who even cares? Gamers nowadays need to play M rated games to feel good with themselves like why? I play games period. If the game is good is all that matters to me.
Oh good, another article being wholly and unnecessarily negative towards Nintendo. That's what I come here for.
It is not Nintendo's responsibility to make Capcom's games sell on Nintendo systems. Capcom needs to make convincing software that sells, utilizing the unique strengths of the platform it's performing on. Same with everyone else.
The Wii sold like crazy, but EA didn't make games for it because EA Games didn't sell well. Why? They were cheap, lame ports and not original content. If all these companies do is make half-baked ports of their games from other systems, then what incentive does a Nintendo fan (especially one who owns multiple systems and a PC) have to buy them? This isn't Nintendo's fault. They made the system, it's up to developers to make interesting content.
@JaxonH More Monster Hunter is a must. But I don't want a console to compete with the ps4/xbone. I have a ps4, and it struggles to be played when all the games I want is also playable (and better) on my PC. I want games that are fun, and specs don't always translate into a good game. Hell I'm playing Dungeon Travellers 2 on the Vita and loving it. And that game could run on a psp.
Also while Nintendo seems to be below or is below competition in terms of graphical power there is going to be a time in where graphical differences won't matter anymore because human eye can't see beyond certain resolution. So what M$ and Sony are going to do? Release a console every two years with more teraflops? At least Nintendo will keep trying to put new things into gaming and that is why I love them. Nintendo will survive, media has spell Nintendoom for a long time and it has not happen.
I disagree with the article in a few ways.
Yes it's responsibility of Nintendo to sell the console but it's not their responsibility to deliver a captive audience for companies like EA to reap the profits.
If they want to build an audience for their own games they have to collaborate with Nintendo which might mean the occasional loss leader on their own part. The loss leader and investment shouldn't just be on Nintendo.
@StuTwo Also if third parties want to sell on Nintendo then they should put effort in it not just a half cook game.
While I have confidence that Nintendo is going to avoid many of the mistakes made with the Wii U, I sincerely hope it is willing to part with some of it's "vast cash reserves" to get some third parties to bring games over to the Switch. I think it's a mistake to try and turn the switch into yet another PC clone for many AAA games, but I suspect if they are willing to pay up for EA to bring Madden, NHL, FIFA, etc. to the Switch, this will be a hot seller in the US this fall for parents (like myself) with younger kids. Which will bring still more games to the system. Don't kid yourselves - if the Switch has 10m consoles sold in the first year, a company like Square will find a way to port larger titles (like FF7 Remake) over to the Switch, even if it means a downgrade in graphics.
I think Nintendo is going a good path here with the Switch, with platformers, local/online multiplayer games, RPGs, and some larger titles like Zelda/Mario in the first year to lend some gravitas to the system. It's a comfortable niche that, while it likely won't be the 100m seller the Wii was, it should be a good enough spot that we don't see external support completely dry up.
I also think the decision to separate the various parts of the switch means we could get an updated core unit (screen + CPU/GPU) in 18 months without having to re-buy everything, which means upgrading can be far cheaper than shelling out for a Scorpio or the PS Pro.
So fingers crossed this works out for them ... and us.
@Ralizah I got that same feeling during the presentation when they showed all the various "DNA" that went into the Switch. Honestly provided the gaming industry doesn't fall on a sword this time around I really think that Nintendo has the potential repeat the gameboy success from a home console perspective. Switch and any iterations it gets have the potential to be a super-system. Now the 3rd parties have to bring their part. Nintendo has already unveiled some very compelling starting games.
@Judgedean
Completely untrue.
The N64 and Gamecube didn't fail because they were trying to compete on power, they failed because they used expensive and inferior media for those systems. The Gamecube also lacked basic features the others had as well.
Nintendo has plenty of blame, but not for things like Mass Effect 3 on Wii U, where EA basically sabotaged it with the trilogy on other platforms for the same price.
When you play the Game of Nintendo you either make genius decisions or incomprehensible ones.
There is no middle ground.
Well, yes, third parties job is not making sure the Switch sell, but I thought that was a given.
It's Nintendo job to do that and I honestly think we are on the right track, while I managed to buy the 3DS and Wii U at a huge price drop thanks to the lack of even first party releases, the Switch first year line-up made pretty clear I won't be able to do that again, not unless I'm willing to skip some games I really can't wait to play.
Regarding third parties I'm just glad they are taking the Switch release more seriously, just a promess to be there for test the water without huge claims of exclusives and unprecedent support. Those will have to come anyway if the Switch sell, afterall Nintendo is still releasing a console weaker than the competition and two consoles ago the Wii's sales forced the poor third parties to mostly release exclusive titles as they had no way to port their multiplatform ones XD
@Jessica286
Unfortunately, i'm against adult gamers mindset. I play my games not just only for myself but also for everyone especially kids and my students. So, NO adult games are allowed in my system. I hate adult games. I need more appropriate games for kids and everyone because now I realized some of my students contaminated with bad things from adult games and bad entertainment.
@Anti-Matter
Choosing not to buy adult games is one thing. Not having the option at all is another.
Chicken and egg
@SharkAttackU true is all about options but honestly this Nintendoom is tiresome. It is repeated every year by the media lets just wait and see.
Can't have chickens without eggs. And can't have eggs without chickens. Nintendo is the chicken and 3rd party devs being the eggs. Without 3rd parties, we would be solely playing AAA titles (which isn't bad considering Nintendo makes the best games out of everyone). But without Nintendo there would be no console for devs to make games on. They can both be successful if they work together rather than banking on one to do all the work, and piggy backing of the others success. I'm not saying it's one or the others fault, they both are fault for the Wii U. And articles like this keep spinning this falsehood that Nintendo is failing while everyone else is doing right.
The point is all are at fault here. Nintendo isn't expected to sell a console with just 3 of their games at launch. The point is to have a slew of games on board for launch which is why 3rd parties are needed. Vice versa, if Nintendo didn't make great games at launch, we would be missing those AAA titles and missing what makes this console different.
@Lizuka yep, it is naive not to ask Nintendo for third party support but I think it will be there when they sell Switch like hot cakes which hopefully will happen.
In the same breath, it's up to those developers to make their titles as fully-featured as possible and make the most of Switch's capabilities. A half-assed approach cannot result in blame being placed on Nintendo if their title doesn't sell well.
I'm getting this thing on launch with a special edition first party game, a third party game, and an indie title. I'm trying here. Don't blow it, Nintendo.
Gentle reminder that even when a Nintendo console vastly outsells the competition third parties still put out shovelware of the worst sort :https://pietriots.com/2010/12/17/the-3rd-party-wall-of-shame/
@BinaryFragger Nearly a year old information, bud.
Nintendo never learns when it comes to third parties. When was the last time Nintendo had decent third party support? Gamecube. When was the last time Nintendo had a console that was on par with others in terms of horsepower? Gamecube.
Nintendo needs to realise that developers don't want to stifle their creativity just to make sure it runs on a lower spec console. If a developer is used to working with more powerful machines which can run more advanced and more intricate games, why would they want to cap their original vision?
Having horsepower isn't just about graphics and never has been. Nintendo needs to realise this. They can innovate from WITHIN software, it doesn't always have to be with hardware. Nintendo will get third party support back when they make a system that can play the games on par with other systems. Simple as.
Respawn just unofficially confirmed no Titanfall 2 for Switch, which pretty well illustrates this whole situation:
"I was excited about it, because Nintendo's been in such a niche market recently like, you know, catering to the handheld [market] and - I'm going to be honest with you - the kids. They've been so underpowered that they don't have the support of the third parties, because they're all making for PC, Xbox One and PS4, and [Switch] is no different!"
All that was stated from 3rd parties have obvious valid points. I don't blame them. It does seem like Nintendo has these 3rd parties on a tight leash. As for the players the only ones concerned are the people who want 3rd party games so much, which is fine, to each is own. I don't know if Nintendo is shortsighted as for what 3rd parties are recommending or expecting Nintendo to do. It's not solely based on how many units are sold, it's also based on demand for the particular game title. Nintendo fans mostly buy Nintendo games. That's quite simple.
There is a niche audience who buy into Nintendo hardware and play 3rd party games too. So it's a careful consideration. But also respectable.
Personally I'm expecting Nintendo to deliver their normal ip's as well as new ones. And there is a small handful of 3rd party I actually play, some Capcom games mainly. I don't play EA games. Ubisoft, I may try the next Rayman. Sega, not so much but I look forward to buying the Sonic game, and it would be nice to give Switch a Phantasy Star but that's a long shot. The most 3rd party games I'll play are mostly from the Virtual Console..
@BinaryFragger he might be specifically referring the the Xbox Division
@Grawlog
Ya I'm taking a break from there myself. Too many fanboys who don't appreciate good games or innovation, just putting PS on a pedestal and bashing anything from anyone else. Like come on, had Switch been named Vita, had full console graphics and full button set, with a game like Zelda launching on it, people would be hailing it as the Nintendo killer (which stems from that fanboy mindset of backing one brand and bashing all others)
I own and play PS4, Xbox One, Wii U, PSVR, Vita, 3DS and Gaming PC. And soon Switch.
I appreciate all games, and I buy Xbox and PS to supplement Nintendo. And Nintendo to supplement PS and Xbox.
Too many people nowadays have been brainwashed into thinking AAA 3rd party is all there is to gaming, and without it no platform is worth owning. How many consoles with those games does one need? I didn't buy 8 platforms to get the same AAA games across all 8 of them, I bought one to get those games, and the other 7 to get different games.
As long as Switch has no droughts, and the games are good, then it shouldn't matter if it has AAA or not. Unless a person is specifically looking to play them, in which case they should already own another console.
Look IF companys like EA ect Bring out outdated old ports on Wii u that like Mass effect cost more money for 1 game than it did for All 3 then that's there fault not nintendo's. ubisoft done this with that Rayman exclusive.We get treated like second rate gamers from.big western 3RD party's.Like that comments made by a developer from Respawn titanfall 2.I agree nintendo has to do there part two.But come on hear nintendo life stop talking bull poo and saying it's all nintendos fault
Not sure how anyone could really argument against this point. All these companies exist to make money, even Nintendo. Nintendo can justify a loss on something like Bayonetta or Xenoblade Chronicles X, and say that making those titles available makes the Wii U a more attractive purchase.
It's insane to expect companies like Ubisoft to go ahead with a project they know will lose money (like Rayman Legends) in order to help Nintendo out. These companies have decided to be publishers so they can work under a model of each project being judged for itself. They could all put together consoles quite easily themselves, they know these machines inside out, but they don't because they don't want that hassle.
Nintendo still carries the reputation of how horrible they were to publishers AND retailers back in the 80s and early 90s, but none of these companies want Nintendo to fail, as another successful console is another market for them, but they're not going to lose money to help them out.
If anything, some publishers gave Nintendo more of a chance than the others. Ubisoft was there with TWO exclusives on launch day, and even if you completely discount Rabbids Land, ZombiU was a proper game, built for the Wii U. Did they give Xbone or PS4 any exclusives for launch? Nope, all they gave them was upscaled PS3/360 ports, but those sold and ensured Ubisoft pushed ahead with putting games on the machines.
All the big sports games got their chance on Wii U at launch. Madden, FIFA, NBA 2k were all there. They weren't gimped, they were equal to the 360/PS3 versions (PS4 or Xbone didn't exist back then remember). They all sold poorly so the obvious decision gets made to not invest in making new engines run on the Wii U, and the console gets legacy versions from there on.
@Lizuka
Of course I will waiting for Animal Crossing Switch. I can die in happiness if the game is real and with deep robust gameplay.
This piece is 100% correct. In Nintendo's favor, they have designed a system whose primary selling point can easily be incorporated into any game, and we're seeing that happen. Contrast this with the pointless waggle of many Wii games, and the way the Wii U's special features were practically ignored.
@SharkAttackU I didn't say they failed because they were competing on power, they failed because of the kiddie image they've always had and haven't been able to shake it off. When Sony arrived, they changed the stigma of gaming being a kid thing with their brand and Nintendo stupidly helped, as you said by sticking with cartridge. Remember the Gamecube had sufficient storage for 99% of games with their proprietary disks but it was too late by then - gamers had moved to Sony and MS - eventhough the GC could compete technically with the other two.
@faint
Oh really? You must be a professor of some sort with that much intellect. Did you know that when betting on something, the outcome hasn't actually taken place yet, but you're merely guessing upon a future result? Guess what...I just did that. Whether or not my guess is true we shall have to wait and see.
Yes, that's quite obvious, 3rd party companies have no obligation to take significant risk and invest in the Switch just to try and make the Switch a success, it's Nintendo's job to show 3rd parties why the Switch is worth supporting.
If the Switch fails, it'll be because of Nintendo's own decisions for it.
Oddly enough, Nintendo's is handling the Switch as if it's a forgone conclusion that it's going to be a success, despite the Wii U failing before it. Rather than make buying a Switch as appealing as possible right out of the gate, they seem to be intentionally nickle and diming people right from the start all over the place. They are almost acting like Microsoft did with the Xbone reveal, so incredibly confident that their customers would accept anything and everything because they (Microsoft) held a majority of the market at that time, that they made a bunch of decisions that were intentionally anti consumer, and anti gamer, prompting many 360 owners to buy a PS4 instead. I think it was about a year after the Xbone's release before Microsoft admitted fault and backpedaled on many of their anti consumer decisions, but by that point the PS4 already had a hold of the market.
@Joeynator3000
Switch could become no. 2 making it the last console. That was the initial guess. Oh boy, some of you guys sure missed a class or two.
Hardware specs/architecture, hardware sales, and software sales will determine how much 3rd party support the Switch will receive.
@DarkKirby
I agree with your assessment, that does seem to explain alot.
Only difference is MS cross the line by a mile and a half with mandatory online DRM checks, whereas Nintendo is just over pricing accessories by $10 and adding a MP subscription service (which the market will sort out- if the price doesn't justify the amount of online games and quality of subscription based features, no one will sub, and they'll be forced to either drop the sub price or add value).
I think you're spot on, but with Nintendo it's small potatoes in comparison. Online console DRM is a deal breaker, a little extra expense is just inconvenient for the wallet.
Of course, alot of this is easier to swallow given the forward strides they're taking with region free and games tied to online Nintendo accounts.
@Anti-Matter Well of course, children shouldn't play games with extreme violence or anything. That's why mature ratings exist. But there's nothing wrong with mature people playing it who understand that violence isn't the norm and isn't okay in real life. Just because kids shouldn't play it doesn't mean it should be banned off the system.
Can't agree that publishers have "no genuine concern in Nintendo's fortunes - beyond making money on their systems".
1. Nintendo systems introduce new (often young) potential customers to gaming, who may eventually gravitate to other, more 'hardcore' formats with greater potential revenues.
2. Publishers need console makers to keep making consoles and Nintendo are the last dedicated games company still doing so. It's been 15 years since a new format (Xbox) launched, and there are no guarantees for them that Microsoft, or even Sony, won't focus their activities on more profitable and less volatile parts of their businesses.
3. An argument could even be made that helping Nintendo sustain their own systems, prevents them providing stiff competition as a rival multi-format publisher.
@Stargazer Because the Wii was a thing. It didn't have the power, but it still got ports.
Either way, some devs already said the Switch is easy to port for. Heck, major Japanese games are being ported for Switch, so it's possible for western devs to do so too.
I would like to see watch dogs 2 on switch
This just in!
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-01-20-nintendo-switch-to-sell-40m-units-by-2020-dfc
This figure is very very achievable. We are expecting more than the announced 2m units to sell at Launch. It is suspected that Nintendo have been very conservative with the 2m figure and in fact it has been mooted that 3m units have entered the market .
Bear in mind that after the first week of pre-orders - Nintendo will be able to significantly gauge demand. Even if units have sold out - the rate at which they have sold out will help their analysts to calculate a sensible production rate of new consoles.
Nintendo have also said they have the ability to ramp up production quickly.
It is wholly likely that the release of Splatoon in Japan could easily and instantly create demand for 1 - 2m Switch Units - the popularity and desire is there.
Nintendo clearly have not announced a slew of games deliberately - this is correct - a constant stream of new game announcement keeps the social media hype river flowing - it generates interest and a general assumption that the Switch is the way to go .
There is so much they still have to tell us - but announcing everything in the first weekend would be an information overload and details would easily be lost in the hubbub.
Of course - it IS Nintendo's responsibility to make Switch a success - Bearing mind that 3rd parties and companies like Ubisoft etc can all benefit in a direct correlation to the amount of quality software they release for the system.
Switch is designed to be an EXTRA stream of income for all - not a replacement, market stealing stream of income that diverts income form Bone or PS4. . . Everyone's turnover should go up - Switch is a different market.
@JLPick At the same time, some third parties put so minimal effort in the Wii U that it was laughable.
I applaud Sega, Ubisoft and Activision (Skylanders) for at least TRYING to help the Wii U, but EA made no such effort. All their ports were either half-butted or delayed or lacked most content.
@JaxonH
Wow... so many collections.
But for me, Nintendo is my Main system for gaming, no supplement machines at all except ps1 & ps2 (But I have sold both of them long time ago, time to moving on from Sony despite still love so many games from ps1 & ps2). I divide my Nintendo games into two: Main > Wii, 3DS & NDS, Supplements > Wii U, Gamecube, GBA (will try to get GBA during this year). And Switch definetely will be my new Main Nintendo games.
@TheLZdragon
EA is lazy company.
Even for The Sims series especially The Sims 3 PC, they didn't even improved their games. MySims series are lovely and cute but with half-baked gameplay. Love The Sims series and MySims but disappointed with flaws inside.
@JaxonH
Of course, alot of this is easier to swallow given the forward strides they're taking with region free and games tied to online Nintendo accounts.
Has it been confirmed somewhere that Nintendo is finally tying digital purchases to your account rather than the console? Region free and digital purchases being tied to your account is something everyone else does, and something Nintendo should have done a long time ago, but I haven't seen news on Nintendo confirming they are finally putting an end to tied to console digital purchases.
@DarkKirby This is how I see it.
The first few months, Nintendo is selling to the fanboys. They will buy out all the preorders regardless of what is at launch.
This summer, Nintendo will branch out to those interested in Nintendo. They will have Splatoon, Mario Kart, and Zelda by then along with some indie titles and 3rd party games.
This holiday they will sell to the parents and the "second-console" owners. They will have Mario as their big November title, and surely some 3rd parties will port yearly titles to the Switch by then.
Other than this, I don't know why they would launch in March in the first place.
Everyone has a blame on this. Nintendo cause they made a weak console,Third party devs for making piss poor port of games and the fans(well not all of them) for not buying the third party games. So no one is a saint in this.
I'm just gonna say it. People are overreacting to the $300 price tag. Do you know how expensive consoles have been in the past? There's literally never been a console in the Playstation line that was under $300 at launch. Both the PS1 and PS2 were $300. The PS1 was released in 1995 and was the same price. I don't need to remind anyone what the PS3 originally cost. People have been acting like it's still 1990 here, expecting the thing to be $200 like the NES and SNES were. It's literally only $50 more than the Wii was at launch, for hardware that's significantly better.
At any rate, I do agree that's it on Nintendo to make this thing sell. But I don't know where people are getting this idea that the Switch isn't ready for its first year, because if you've been paying attention to recent updates, Switch has been getting more and more launch titles announced over the past week and more stuff is constantly announced in general to come in 2017. I think it'll be just fine. I do think that third parties aren't entirely blameless, though. I could easily see EA trying to step out, for example. Third parties aren't automatically paragons of fair and good business and they've done shady stuff before.
Is it March 3rd yet?
Now that's a good soapbox. Fans are naturally quick to assign scapegoats - it's one of the things fan mentality is best geared towards, - but just like I said earlier today, it's easiest to tell others what they should do ans what they "owe" us, be it Nintendo or third parties big and small. Nintendo have acknowledged it themselves that Wii U didn't do enough ro attract developers; but as Fils-Aime's interview shows, they know what to do for that. The rest is for time to tell, but "nintendoomed" is definitely not the extent of the reactions to what they've been announcing so far, even among fans.
@KirbyTheVampire
Every my Nintendo system that have Age rating setting (3DS and Wii U), I will sets on Teen as Maximum age rating. I will make sure my Nintendo system completely safe for children. I'm very Strict when talking about this. I did that because.... I had very bad experience when I was young. Saw adult things, sadistic, bloody things, gory at past from games, from movies by accidentally. I regret, felt angry and disgust to myself . So, I promise to myself will not compromize with adult games or any kind of adult entertainments whatsoever. Enough that nightmare.
@KirbyTheVampire
Sorry but there is no reserve in judgement! There is simply no excuse!
Only "one" major title at launch for a New console? Are you kidding me? The other 2-3 titles are gimmick titles.
How are you suppose to sell a new console like that?
Even the WiiU had 18 games at launch! Several major titles among them! /shrug
If you are not into Zelda and played Mario Kart 8 to the Death, then there is nothing for you on the Switch until after summer!
How are you suppose to sell a new console like that? With so little choice in major titles!
The Switch is going to domuch better than the Wiiu and people keep forgetting why. The mobile and homeconsole divisions are one now. Remember 3ds got planet Robobot in 2016 and wiiu got Rainbow curse in 2015? Triple deluxe was on 3ds in 2014 so 3ds owners had to wait 2 years for a new Kirby but with the Switch they would have gotten a Kirby every year
I really just wish that EA would release NHL 17 on the Switch. Having a portable version of that would be amazing!
@Damo nuff said that Nintendo DS boasts a sequel but still the first and only flagship[-related] Final Fantasy game on a Nintendo platform since FFVI to date, even if it took Square Enix (with their decade-long knack for photorealism) bringing Ivalice back to its visual FFT roots.
I agree. Repeating many of the same mistakes as they made with the Wii U is certainly not instilling confidence in these third party companies. The fact that Lego City undercover is a launch title when it was a Wii U launch title is amazing to me.
@Ps4all
It's because the game is being ported to PS4 and Xbox One, so they're giving Switch a release also. It would be more concerning if it wasnt coming to Switch.
@DarkKirby
It was posted yesterday under an interview with Reggie. When asked, be said something along the lines of "we never had the capability before, but now with Nintendo acounts we can offer this to our customers, and we'll have more details on this coming soon"
@Jeronan
Hello...
Don't forget some Japanese games for first launching, considering Switch is Region Free. Your option is not just only USA games but also Japanese games. I have written on my shopping list about Switch games that I want to buy and you know what ? I got 7 titles so far. 1 Japanese Switch games, 2 ports from Wii U and 4 USA Switch games. Expand your library games from another region.
@Shagaru this mindset from the typical Nintendo consumer is ironically the biggest part as to why Nintendo is fledgling in last place and fighting irrelevancy in the marketplace. Well done!
@Damien McFerran I complete disagree..Third parties are lazy and we know it..Look at how EA treated us with the ports of garbage they gave us for the Switch...Nintendo Does not need third Parties like that and i could care less if they ever come back. Nintendo will be fine without them regardless of what the naysayers say
@Gregory123
That's what Nintendo says, but they are still making 3DS games and lets not forget mobile. That will command more devs when/if it become more successful. I think the Switch will see more support, but I doubt it will be a huge difference.
I don't think anyone is or has ever not blamed Nintendo. And while it makes no difference to me whether or not the graphical power is equal to the Xbone or the PS4, I do wonder about something. It has been stated from various sources that the machine is easy to port for. So my take away from this and from the reluctance of some developers to commit to porting certain games to it says to me that
1) This is purely an economical thing and they want to wait and see how the reception to the Switch turns out (which makes ton of sense)
or
2) There are still some bad feelings among some developers with Nintendo. Which in that case, both parties need to put on their big boy pants, get together and look at the bigger picture.
@JaxonH "I'm ready to talk about the games already." if only there were some to actually talk about...
@ittleamber concerning NES, its price is reportedly slightly above..
$400 when adjusted for inflation. Ouch. Atari 2600's would be almost 800 today. And there were merry folks like Neo Geo and 3DO that wore $650-700 price tags with a straight face BACK THEN. Games have never been all too cheap on day one either.
@gatorboi352 meme makers: "NINTENDO SWITCH HAS NO GAMES"
PS3 and PS4: "Kudos, new kid on the block, at least these oh so witty humans will get off our case for a moment now"
I'm only in for first party and capcom!
Jesus the naivety and foolishness of fans here is astounding, no wonder Nintendo believes their out of touch calls are the right thing to do.
Yeah some third parties screw the pooch with their releases on these past consoles but they also weren't given a lot to work in terms of hardware. I mean for all of you its so easy to ask the debelopers to develop, like they just sit on a couch an say words that magically code their ideas.
Hell no, that's not how it works, having two teams develop for two different hardware specs for the same game is not as easy as clicking on the computer "scale" and they are done. Resources are not limitless and with the mentality of the classic Nintendo fan that third parties are garbage (a mentality born from bitterness from the N64 days) there is of course not much money to be made.
@Aneira your guess was simply it will fail. I'm assuming you're guess is based on what you or the industry thinks they should do. Mine was based on sitting there and thinking about why they are making these decisions. What each choice means and what results they personally want to achieve. Not what I think they should do but why are they doing what they are doing.
@gatorboi352 Might want to read the bottom part of comment #3.
@DJKeens there sure are baffling examples but you're giving them from the realm of existing third party support. The drama queens in question are keen to blame third parties for not making loads and loads of games for Wii U at all.
It is always funny to find the typical comment: "Nintendo NEEDS third party support if they want the Switch to be a hit"
When in reality is the other way around. Switch needs to be a success in order to receive some third party support. As @Damo say, if the audience is there, developers will find a way to put their games on the system. The old "System is not powerful enough for AAA titles" is a misinformed argument. Studios will put their games on any system that sells and have a big enough audience. If they don't have the man power to do it themselves, they will hire someone else to do the job. It is more of an economic matters than a technical one. You want third party titles? Buy a Switch, enjoy the system. Then all the uninspired, lazy, poor executed but popular Sports and FPS games that people love so much will be there asap.
@Kmno Hey, at least their anti-third party games attitude makes it easy for them to accept the fact that they miss out on some great games.
When will people learn that Nintendo isn't the only company that makes quality games, and third parties are essential for the success of a system?
@Stargazer to invest in the experience potential they're attracted by? I mean, if they buy PSVR despite the still budding compatible library...
Thankfully there is only 28 days in February.
@Billsama I wouldn't say it's only the other way around. It goes both ways. That's why there's often such a vicious cycle. The third parties wait for the system to bring in the userbase so that they'll have an incentive to make games for it, but the system needs the third parties for it to truly be a success and have a large userbase. That's the trap the Wii U fell into.
Contrary to what people here may believe, not everyone loves or cares about Nintendo games enough to buy a Nintendo system. There needs to be other games from other companies on the system if they're going to buy one.
@KirbyTheVampire "It looks like a lack of software because we don't KNOW all the software." The 'not knowing' is the problem. If there was software, they'd have talked about it. Why, at this point with the situation Nintendo is in, would they have withheld ANY information relating to upcoming games? They literally had people on stage at the presentation talking about being excited to bring games to the system that weren't even actual games yet! But yet they are potentially hiding announcements that are already in the works? I don't buy it.
"We'll hear about more games in the coming weeks and at E3" We better, for Nintendo's sake. Then again, nothing really substantial or AAA worthy is going to be announced at E3 and then brought to the market before 2018.
@Anti-Matter
Japanese games are useless to me, as I cannot read Japanese nor does my son.
Good for you if you can understand and read Japanese, but not many can here in the west.
So non-translated Japanese games are a no-go for the vast majority here.
So you can't count those, that is a ridiculous excuse to the lack of launch titles here in the west!
Nice article, good little read right here.
It's easy to blame the 3rd parties like EA for not bringing their games to Nintendo consoles. However, they're businesses, and they can only bring games over to the Switch if it makes business sense. Porting a game over to a new platform takes time and money.
@KirbyTheVampire I find very hard to believe there is much people out there that want a Nintendo system and doesn't love or care enough about Nintendo titles. I would say Nintendo games are (much of the time) the first reason someone would want a Nintendo system.
@B238ben I kind of hope 2k brings back NHL2k on the Switch, or even better they drop the license and make a non- annual game where I can adjust nets and rinks to play multiplayer pond hockey or 4v4 on an international size rink.
Well said! Nintendo do make more effort! Don't realease too weak consoles. No one is waiting to be hold back because you want to release a weak/cheap consoles as possible. Enough to run like a system that's at least 3 years old. Stop with excuses.. nuff said
@Billsama That was more true on past Nintendo systems, but in the case of the Switch, portability is an attractive thing to many people. If their favorite third party games are on a portable system, they'd probably be willing to buy it, even if they already own them on other systems, in a lot of cases anyway.
The problem is people want realism and violence, to emerge themselves in the game. The interesting thing is many people I talk to at conversation tons reference 8 bit and 16 bit games as their favorite titles they ever played.
Someone else said it above, and I've said this for some time, Nintendo would be better off supporting old school arcade style and 16 bit style games with HD graphics to appeal to people's nostalgia and love of classic retro games. Retro gaming is a huge market right now. Don't believe everything me? Look at the rising prices of old games over the last 5 years. It's a market and consumer that plays modern games but few have tried to develop effectively for. Throwback titles like Super Bomberman R is a good start. If I were Nintendo, I'd double down on that and seek developers for throwbacks to the 16 bit and arcade Era.
People can debate me on this last point, but exclusives sell consoles. Respaw. Saying Titan fall 2 won't come to the Switch as a slap to Nintendo made me just smirk and think "and so what?". How many systems need another tired shooter which claims innovation but is basically a reinvisioned Mech Warrior FPS? I don't even buy many AAA titles anymore. I try them for 30 mins, get bored, and never play them again. But I can sit and play old SNES games for hours and then revisit them months later and love them all over again. There's something to be said for that
Also, EAST claims to be releasing one of the greatest sports franchises on the Switch, FiFA.....Tecmo Super bowl followed by NBA Jam is the greatest sports game ever made, no debate lol
@gatorboi352 I understand withholding some of their big titles for E3, but I don't understand the drip feed of information either. Why games like the new Fire Emblem weren't announced at the event is beyond me. My point is that ultimately, the full lineup of games is what will matter at the end of the day. Their methods of revealing it are completely ridiculous, though.
I'm just banking on a big E3. If that doesn't happen, the Switch's future doesn't look good. What makes you say nothing AAA will be revealed at E3, though? I'm guessing you mean third party AAA games?
I want to start "Playing with Power" again.
I'm tired of "Playing with hit or miss gimmicks that end up detracting from a budget that would be better spent on making a machine that can handle five years worth of big noteworthy third party titles and make Nintendo a viable console manufacturer to make a purchase from as an open minded consumer that likes several game genres"
Make Nintendo Powerful Again
@gatorboi352
??? Why are you always taking potshots? Its fine to not be interested, but why make remarks like that? Theres no games to talk about if you'r not buying one, but for me there's plenty games to talk about, like Zelda for one. Games almost out, and it looks like the best game I'll ever play.
I wanna talk Bomberman R, this game looks hype.
Definitely wanna talk Redout.
And the changes coming to Mario Kart Deluxe, and what arenas we'll have.
Can talk about Arms and what this new IP will play like with motion vs normal controls, what modes it has, etc.
Or Splatoon 2, or Fire Emblem Warriors, or the possible routes they'll take in the new Fire Emblem. Or Skyrim and whether mod support will be there, and Mario Odyssey. Can talk about Sonic Mania and whether this is the Sonic game we've been waiting 20 years for, or if the new 2017 Sonic will be a return to form. Can talk about Ultra Street Fighter II and how hype that is. I swear I saw a VR clip at the end of the trailer. Has Been Heroes and whether it'll be any good, or what direction they're taking Octopath Traveler or how alot of these ports of traditional console games will play on a handheld screen (like Dragon Quest XI, DQ Heroes 1 + 2, Disgaea 5 and Tecmo Koei strategy games)
And given the system isn't even out yet and e3 around the corner after it launches, there will be plenty more to talk about soon. So ya, speak for yourself there, I've got a long list of games I wanna talk about.
@Mogster
Nintendo will never return to the graphical arms race... The 22 million who contributed to the Gamecube's install base and share your philosophy won't inspire Nintendo to return to that frame of mind. To quote Prosecutor Sadmadhi... "It's time to let it go... and move on".
You can innovate with software but software will always be limited by hardware. A Nintendo that doesn't innovative with hardware... isn't Nintendo.
@BinaryFragger not to difficult, but high sales does that make a game good. And sadly many of those games get high ratings because of what they are not because they are necessarily good.
I'm not going to get into all the titles you mentioned, but I do have an issue with Fallout 4, and even 3. I love Fallout....Bethesda Fallout games are not Fallout. Fallout 1 and 2 are classics from the PC Era with a dark storyline and strategic combat that was engaging and so many paths to take. Fallout 3 and 4 are nothing like their predecessors. Are they bad games? No, but they are also not Fallout. They just bought out the name of a popular series, dropped it in their elder Scrolls engine, and slapped Fallout onto it
@KirbyTheVampire i just can't see anything AAA, first or 3rd party, being unveiled in May and then coming to retail before 2018.
Wow, seems the soapbox seems to just open up the wounds of the previous days arguments. I was pretty sure this debate had settled down. Haha, any more salt to pour into the community wounds?
Either way, the article does have a point, EA & Ubisoft are both companies that have to consider both the bottom line & the fact they lost a lot of money on the Wii U. Whether it was their fault or not. Also, just to repeat something from yesterday... Fifa is one of the best selling games in the world, bigger than Battlefield, Fallout and GTA 5.
I think we will see some big games & support for the Switch, but Nintendo has a responsibility to go to the developers & secure their confidence. Sony & Microsoft spend HUGE amounts of money securing their AAA titles. If Nintendo isn't getting them, then people need to look at what Nintendo is doing.
Plus, of course, Nintendo really should have held the Switch release until the Summer to have E3 & more launch titles under it's belt.
This article kind of covers all bases though doesn't it.
Yes the presentation could have been better and more info from third parties would have been great. However as you also point out E3 is about 5 months away.
Companies like Ubisoft and EA have their own presentations to deliver there, if they have games to show they would likely show them then, they will want to handle their own reveals.
Console launches are always aimed at the loyal following who will pre-order on the strength of what might still be to come. There's no sense in revealing everything straight from the off.
There's also another 6 weeks till release, I bet there's a bit more incoming that we don't know about yet.
I do think the release is a bit earlier than it needs to be though which might also explain a lack of third party support at launch. I'd have gone with April and at least got Mario Kart in the launch lineup.
Really good article, we're starting to see the real Nintendo life opinions slipping through now😉 I respect that a lot!
My views have been pretty negative so I'll save you another rant today........
Funny, I have never had the sense that Nintendo has blamed 3rd parties for their lack of support. They have always acknowledged that attaining proper 3rd party support is an important key to success. They havent thumbed their noses at 3rd parties since the SNES era when their heads were too big to fit through the door. Its not as easy getting and maintaining 3rd party support as it is to just write the observation. Its a vicious circle. They need 3rd party support to be successful but their 1st party games are so dominant. They compete for their 3rd party partners' dollars. No support no system sales. Then add to it the competition from 1st party sales and its not so attractive. It's not as easy a solution as the media think. Nintendo have been working hard with their 3rd parties to build better dev tools and programs for the last several console generations. Fans spouting uneducated opinions is nothing new and nothing to do about it. But i would expect more from the media (not surprised either though).
@Turbo857 Gimmicks just don't sell anymore. If you want Nintendo's company identity to remain being about desperately trying to come up with off-the-wall ideas in an effort to stay viable because they burnt a lot of bridges back during the N64 era and before, then fine. That can be the Nintendo you dream of seeing, and it's the one you've seen for the past few years. It's the one that led to the 3DS having a very close call, and the one that led to the failure that was the Wii U. If that's your Nintendo, then I'm sure you're fine with the dire straights its in, floundering around in the water because it just doesn't know how to swim.
Me? I want to go back to classic Nintendo. I want to see aggressive tactics to make a console superior in every shape and form to their competitors, and extreme tactics to raise awareness of that console and why everyone should choose it over every other console. That would make them relevant again in a modern day conversation with friends.
I see we've got a few classic Nintendo fan stereotypes on show today. We've got the old 'everybody is brainwashed to like shooters and non Nintendo games unlike me' people and the pearl clutching 'please don't put any nasty naughty games on my innocent kiddy-windy console' types on display today all the way to the 'it's EA and ubisoft's fault that the Wii U failed' dudes. All we need is for someone to call everyone who games on PS4 and Xbox dudebro's and we've got a full house.
@Jeronan
Useless ? For me is Useful.
Try to learn some Japanese letters. There is nothing wrong to mastering Japanese language. I have some NDS games with Japanese version and can manage the game until to finish. Basically they use simple letters like Hiragana and Katakana with a few Kanji letters. You can't deny those Japanese version. Without Japanese version, my NDS collection just a HALF from all my NDS games. One thing, i'm Indonesian, not Western people.
I fully agree with the article. I can't blame those 3rd parties for looking out for their own business, and that is why I hope Nintendo, for ONCE, has learned that to be successful, you need alliances with 3rd parties. It means when you don't have a 1st party offering, FILL IT with 3rd party offerings. Honestly, I've ALWAYS believed there's enough room at the table for 1st and 3rd party games on Nintendo systems. The adage "Only 1st party Nintendo games sell on Nintendo systems" was never the rule, it was the consequence of Nintendo's stubbornness. So time will tell how Nintendo will handle this. Marketing for 3rd party games never hurts either, Nintendo.
@gatorboi352
Gosh...!
What do you expect then for AAA ?
AAA or not, WHO CARES ?!
As long interesting and safe for watch, I will buy it, and I don't care at all if AAA or not.
@AcesHigh Well, you say their heads weren't so big after the SNES era but let's not forget Nintendo telling Square to cut Final Fantasy to fit onto a smaller cart or leave (and according to a recent report, not come back) during the N64 era. You know... who needs Final Fantasy?
By reading all the comments I can see most people will buy switch for the Nintendo games. I know I will. Lucky I have a PS4
So it's another zelda box.
I think it's a bit of both. Nintendo definitely has the brunt of it because it's their hardware, but at the end of the day, NO company's first party games will sell a console alone. If third parties don't make games, the systems won't sell.
@Turbo857 but does Nintendo hardware innovations benefit their software at all? There hasn't been a single one of their core franchises that have been improved by these hardware 'innovations'. Mario Galaxy only uses waggle, Skyward Sword had inconsistent controls, Kirby games are much worse off using touch controls and the less said about Starfox Zero's attempt to force innovation the better. What are these hardware innovations worth?
No, instead Nintendo should return to pushing games as a medium not through control gimmicks but rather depth of gameplay. Imagine how excited we would all be about the Switch if they had allocated resources to more power and performance over things like HD rumble. And having more power doesn't just mean better graphics, but more detailed gameplay and mechanics.
Nintendo has become too afraid to innovate their core franchises and has instead relied on control gimmicks in an attempt to make them feel different. I hope they can learn to move on from this.
They're not sitting on any more major games for 2017. We know the lineup of noteworthy titles.
They can't let momentum stall after launch, Western third parties will be shaken off for maybe the lifespan of the system like the 3DS.
But I'm not confident the price point is going to ensure that the Switch can sell on the promise of games that surpass Wii U's, which is what new hardware is EXPECTED to do
I see a lot of people saying that 3rd parties should give more effort and build a fan base on Nintendo platforms. The thing is, 3rd parties are just exploring new avenues for revenue. They dont really need Nintendo fans considering they do well enough with sony and microsoft. The realty is that sales from Nintendo system are viewed by 3rd parties as meer bonuses. If they dont sell enough games, its ok they can just shrug it off. So they dont really need to build any fanbase or to put ny further effort than what they are currently giving.
Nintendo gonna fail and fail again, Nintendo learn nothing from their pass, just wait and see.
Yet is not NINTENDO MAKING SWITCH SUCCESS, but is CONSUMER and if Nintendo fans powerful enough making Nintendo success, WHY Wii FAIL?
@Mogster
Hm... I don't want something that too ordinary. Nintendo offers me something unusual by Motion control of Joy Con, Hybrids concept that only creative people can think about that. I like something out of the box, not usual, different from other, that's my style. Nintendo keep entertaining me with their innovations, I will never get bored.
@Damo for the first year I totally agree that it is impossible to get release dates simultaneously. Many projects are in the pipeline and nearing going gold and not every company has a dev kit. However that still isn't what we are seeing even now. Take Fifa. Why is that the only EA sports game we are getting? One sports game doesn't give a Switch owner any options at all. I for instance am a Hockey fan. So I still have to go to the twins to play my sports game of choice. If EA only put out fifa during the first year of the twins and then after sales kept up started making more games then I could accept what they do. That isn't what is happening however.
As for system parity.. that is the nature of multiplats. I don't expect a vita game to look like a ps4 game. Heck, at this point I don't expect a ps4 game to look like a ps4 game (thank you ps4 pro for splitting the fanbase) But (back when the vita existed outside of Japan) I do expect to see...multiplats. So yes the games may not be identical because of the architecture of the system but franchises are still ported to multiple systems. The fact that the architecture is different is not a valid excuse to deny a game. It is a valid one to delay a game and I acknowledge that.
It seems you are missing my point somewhat. Going back to wiiu; putting the last game of a trilogy at full price with only some of the dlc and then releasing a full trilogy for half that price for older systems isn't the fault of the hardware. That is a decision the developer made. EA could have just as easily put the trilogy on wiiu, even if it missed launch, and more people would have picked it up. Or worst case sell each game separately to wiiu owners...it would have been offensive as heck but still more fair than what wiiu owners got. I don't see a change in EA based on their current projected games and PR for Switch. On the wii many devs (ubi was notorious) used the popularity of the wii not to give more games or more diverse games but instead they gave us annual franchises of a certain type only. Why give Just Dance every year but never an Assassins Creed game? If they can put it on DS they could have made something for the wii. That tells me that install base means nothing if a top selling system still didn't get a diverse library of games. And when they did they were not promoted. A game dev does have the onus of advertising their own games.
I also agree about the complexity of the risk reward of exclusives (especially given the increasing price of game development)...we are Nintendo fans...they live and die by their first party exclusives. However if 3rd parties aren't porting multiplats with content parity and they aren't making exclusives (without expecting major bailouts/bankrolls from hardware manufacturers) even on Nintendo systems that sell (3ds, wii) then how does the blame fall on Nintendo or consumers? If Nintendo bankrolls exclusives that is less money in their vault to make their own games. Why should Nintendo as software dev pay someone else to make games? Isn't that the job of a software developer to make games? If you don't give me something to play I can't buy anything from you. And if what you do decide to give me is a poor value in comparison to what you give other consumers why should I buy?
I want you to understand that I am not coming at this from a Nintendo fangirl perspective. I am actually annoyed as a multisystem owner. This practice limits my options and from what I have seen it does so artificially. Honestly the more my choices are restricted the less interested I am in giving these third parties that engage in these practices any of my money for any system. Also I am not expecting them to go down with the ship; but if you abandon ship before it leaves the port or the second some storm clouds roll in I take issue to being told it is my fault as a consumer or even the sole fault of the hardware dev. The software dev has to take ownership somewhere. I am not seeing that. Then gamers pay the price. Less games for everyone.
Edit for clarity: When I talk about late ports I mean if a game has enough lead time that it could come out fully multiplat but it is hampered by backroom shenanigans (watch dogs, rayman legends) that is totally different and anti consumer than a game that comes out later because it it just a port (batman AA, AC 3, AC4) of a game already on the market.
The Wii U was considered 'last gen' and you can't blame anyone for looking at Zelda, MK8 and Splatoon2 on Switch as "last gen-last gen".
AND -here it is- third parties have to ASSUME that's consumer opinion until they see otherwise reflected in sales!!!
I think the fact that it's gonna soak up 3ds support is huge. Fire emblem, monster hunter square Enix crazy rpgs and above all else Pokemon will come to Switch. Put Pokemon on it and it will sell. You could put pokemon on a toaster and people would buy it (think that's a quote) was very telling that the fire emblem direct revealed 4 new games. 4....when has there ever been 4 fire emblem games being made at once ? And all supposedly with joint international releases. Shows there should be plenty of resources . E3 is huge for them this yr for sure
@Mogster
"but does Nintendo hardware innovations benefit their software at all? There hasn't been a single one of their core franchises that have been improved by these hardware 'innovations'."
Short answer: It depends on the gamer you talk to. Me? I disagree completely. I'm a hardcore gamer with varied tastes. And I will not play another Metroid, Pikmin, Star Fox, or WarioWare that doesn't have motion controls. Using a second analog for aiming - is inferior. I WISH I could play Gears of War 4, Halo, and Uncharted with motion controls! Resident Evil 4: Wii edition = definitive version! I think Skyward Sword used motion controls in places that were unnecessary but it's one to one combat; and sword blade firing was second to none. I will surely miss it in Breath of the Wild. I still play Punch-Out Wii with the balance board to this day. I have a tough time going back to buttons after that.
I understand that not every gamer clicks with motion controls - but for gamers that do - we find them to be an evolution in immersive gameplay mechanics. They're more stimulating. So, yeah kudos for Nintendo for including "optional" motion controlled Joy Cons!
I'm not going to defend touch controls in Kirby but I just Ioved them in Advance Wars DS and Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. So... there goes a list of core franchises for ya. Hopefully touch control comes to Switch Fire Emblem!
@Syrek24 Why make it personal? Not necessary. Please leave the insults in your head.
I just want to know if I will have the option to play Shenmue 3 or Layers of Fear on Switch.
If not I hope there are other third party games that I want. It is still too early to tell and I hope Nintendo will be able to deliver an epic game console.
I get more and more convinced that Nintendo could eventually grow bigger as a videogame maker if they embraced becoming a Third party manufacturer.
They wouldn't need to abandon the hardware business. But they could start making collector oriented hardware like the NES Classic Mini.
But I cannot help but wonder at how much more amazing could a game like Breath of The Wild be if they released it on a PS4. The graphics could improve, the scope could be even bigger and it would rival the sales of the biggest brands out there.
Plus, the Nintendo hardware isn't offering anything new in terms of gameplay, the control scheme could be fitted perfectly in any other console.
"It's Nintendo's Job To Make Switch A Success, Not EA's, Ubisoft's Or Capcom's"
This 1000%
Blaming third parties for not supporting the platform day one, when clearly Nintendo hasn't given them enough reasons or good enough reasons to do so, is pure fanboyism and little more. And, the really sad thing is that I think it's now probably already too late for that trend to even be properly addressed and fixed, because it needed to be sorted long before now if it were likely to happen at all.
I mean, we already know the system simply isn't going to get most of the big AAA third party titles because it really isn't powerful enough to run them—that's just a fact—and the recent comments by the Titanfall 2 developer are testament to this:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/01/20/respawn-developer-laughs-off-the-idea-of-titanfall-on-switch
And that's not the developer's fault. I'm pretty sure they'd have put the game on Switch if it was either on par with the other platforms it's coming to, both in terms of graphics capabilities and the simplicity/ease of the development environment in terms of making that happen, as well as making good financial sense.
Here's hoping, for now at the very least, there's enough great first party titles—and this is the biggest factor in the current circumstances—and indie developer support to give the thing a decent chance of ever living up to its full potential. . . .
@Tarvaax
"Gimmicks just don't sell anymore."
You're gonna have to define "gimmick". But for the sake of facilitating this conversation, I'm going to assume you mean motion controls. And then I'd have to disagree with you. PS4's VR headset is considered a gimmick by many but it's sold out around me so I don't know where you're getting your data. Also Nintendo, to this day has never marked down the Wii Remote. So, somebody must still be buying these things at full price.
"Me? I want to go back to classic Nintendo."
For that, I'd recommend you buy a classic NES. But joking aside, only 22 million of y'all bought the Gamecube when they were "classic Nintendo". That console got good 3rd party support, affordable price, and was the 2nd most powerful home console of its generation = wasn't enough. I'm sorry but that install base is not an incentive to create another console produced with your philosophy in mind.
"....want to see aggressive tactics to make a console superior in every shape and form to their competitors, and extreme tactics to raise awareness of that console and why everyone should choose it over every other console.
I'll agree that Nintendo's marketing needs to improve for the Switch (but so far, they are on the right track). But if Nintendo invested in a more powerful console as you say, they'd have less ammunition to say what makes it different. You can't have it both ways. Outside of exclusive games, I can't tell you why you should purchase a PS4 over an Xbone (unless I talk about graphics.... bore).
"That would make them relevant again in a modern day conversation with friends."
I just had a modern day convo with a few friends who haven't bought a Nintendo console since the Gamecube. Some of them since the N64. And ya know what, they all preordered a Switch. So, at least in my circle of friends, Nintendo has surely become relevant to a conversation again.
@Damo That's only partly true: Both Wii and 3DS were HUGE sellers but they still saw almost universally none/crap true AAA third party support from the biggest developers for the most part. Money is a huge deal, obviously, but developers actually have to be able to put their games on whatever systems they want to support relatively easily too. It's about more than just how many units a console may or may not sell in this day and age, but, ironically, part of that is actually how many units the developer is confident the console is going to sell in the future as well, such that they can feel confident in developing the game for the system before the numbers are actually real—and that's something developers have very little doubt with when it comes to Sony's and Microsoft's systems but not so much with Nintendo's, it seems.
@markie7235 "Respawn Saying Titan fall 2 won't come to the Switch as a slap to Nintendo made me just smirk and think "and so what?". How many systems need another tired shooter which claims innovation but is basically a reinvisioned Mech Warrior FPS? I don't even buy many AAA titles anymore. I try them for 30 mins, get bored, and never play them again."
Agreed...generic garbage. Sadly some people here are considering the Switch a failure unless it gets some of these uninspiring western shooting fests. I got done with bobbing rifles and stubble in the 90s. Not just that, Nintendo should throw money at these companies to get these games.
Ultimately there is one major hurdle Nintendo has had ever since Sony and Microsoft decided to enter the gaming industry:
Nintendo is primarily a gaming company, that is their bread and butter. Nintendo needs their gaming to make profit or they die...Sony and Microsoft can lose money year after year, wear giant money hats, and do what the big western publishers demand because they aren't making games to really compete with EA, UBI, or Activision...they're making hardware FOR them.
It's a tough spot for Nintendo, they want to innovate and walk their own path, but two massive juggernauts with gaming as just one division of their global electronics and publishing empires shrugging off years of profit loss without even flinching.
@Action51 Good points. Essentially Sony and Microsoft are the lapdogs of the third parties, also the third parties aren't too keen to help out Nintendo because they don't moneyhat and they are also a competitor in the software market.
"It's Nintendo's Job To Make Switch A Success, Not EA's, Ubisoft's Or Capcom's"
Agree 100%
" companies such as EA, Ubisoft, Capcom and Konami don't owe Nintendo, the Switch or fans anything; they're in this business to make money, as mercenary as that sounds."
It's a fact. Some people really need to get their heads around. Nintendo are just as mercenary.
"There's nothing complex about this situation, and it always puzzles me as to why fans seem to be so blind to this fairly obvious reality."
Because fanboys.
"The point is that when you're coming off the back of your most underperforming home console ever, you need to pull out all the stops to make sure your next venture is a runaway success."
Again, agree 100%. The irony is Nintendo have the power to give a system momentum by themselves, far more so than MS or Sony do. Hopefully they will though I'm not sure what we've seen so far will be enough. We'll know more by Christmas.
Nintendo and its fans shouldn't be looking to the likes of EA and Ubisoft to carry the Switch through 2017 and make it a triumph; ....and that job is solely Nintendo's. Attempting to place that responsibility in the hands of external parties which in the grand scheme of things have no genuine concern in Nintendo's fortunes - beyond making money on their systems - is a foolish move, and one which gaming fandom and the wider gaming press needs to avoid making time and time again"
Absolutely agree. This is the second superb article on NL this week (the Editorial about pricing blunders was the other). I see from the Comments that some people still have trouble getting their heads around these facts but you're spot on, @Damo
@Ryu_Niiyama
There were plenty of exclusives on Wii at first but they didn't sell. Zack and Wiki, the second Boom Blox, the Red Steel games, Madworld, the No More heroes games, Klonoa (sort of exclusive), Little Kings Story, SSX Blur, Trauma Team, they all flopped.
Third-parties don't make many exclusives for any of the platform holders unless they're paid to do so. It's down to Nintendo to bring the exclusives and sell the platform.
@electrolite77 excellent points.
@BinaryFragger
You're right about third-parties putting out some bilge on Wii U but you're also right about them putting out some good stuff.
Your list for example. All good games. All good ports on Wii U. Some released same time as other machines. Guess what? Apart from Sonic Raing, Monster Hunter and Rayman, they didn't sell.
Yet some people still prefer to blame everybody but Nintendo for Nintendos failings.
@BiasedSonyFan
"Fans might think they're entitled to consoles that don't cost more than $100 USD or video games that should be just given away in home electronics stores"
Straw man.
"but Nintendo is a business"
Correct. I keep saying this.
"If gamers want to strictly talk about making money and nothing else, then whining about Nintendo's pricing for their consoles is equally as absurd"
False equivalence.
"Instead of whining about anything, then, gamers should just remember this advice: vote with your wallet."
Correct.
@gortsi I see some cartoons that I like on that wall of shame. I probably wouldn't have liked the game adaptions of them, though.
Is it any wonder that Sega was the only third party I noticed for years?
People just let others buy whatever they want. If you don't want to support Switch day one good, but if somebody else wants to let that person be. Don't expect big 3rd party support either even if this thing sale. Until Nintendo releases an equally or really close console in terms of power to the other ones Nintendo only gamers will not get parity. I for one have a PS4 as well so I just don't care but if I see a 3rd party option for Switch I will support that version to help the cause.
Really good article and realistic too.
@LArachelDisciple well, every single company had at least one game worth of notice, and some had more, like Sega. The problem is, for every Red Steel on that list there 15 pieces of garbage. The following summarises my position on the matter: "It’s one thing to ignore the system. It’s another to flood it with garbage and sabotage the perception of the platform. Ubisoft started the whole meme of ‘put shovelware on Wii and put your real efforts on the HD consoles.’ ”
At least with the Wii U most of the garbage is on the E-Shop, and then you also had some real third party gems, which form half of my seventy physical games collection.
@BinaryFragger you do realise that these companies see Nintendo as a competitor, right? Of course you will mention that both Sony and Microsoft also have first party studios that make games which compete with third parties, and you would be right, except for one thing. Compare the yearly output of Nintendo first and second party studios with the equivalents of Sony and Microsoft, and then you will see why some people think like that. While I don't believe they are sabotaging Nintendo, it must really but them that they can't even come close to the creative output and polish of the company's games.
Sure, however if a third party doesn't bring a game to the Switch I'm not going to blame Nintendo.
@BiasedSonyFan
"Nope. It's hyperbole. The basic point is that many gamers feel entitled to cheaper Nintendo products."
So? if they don't get them, they take your advice and vote with their wallets.
"Nope. The statement is true. Third parties are businesses; Nintendo is a business. They make business decisions based on what they think will make them the most money. The only logic that matters is business logic. Complaining is futile."
It's a completely false comparison presumably intended to try and quieten criticism of Nintendo. Third-parties and platform holders are not the same. Different businesses, different business models.
I can only speak for myself but I'm aware they all make decisions based on business. I understand that third-parties have struggled to make money on Nintendo platforms compared to others. I understand Nintendo can price the Switch however they want but I personally think Nintendo have priced the Switch too high because I want them to sell lots of consoles, sell lots of games and make lots of money. I don't think pricing it too high will help that. Potentially the opposite.
@BinaryFragger made a killing by making a lot of trash games for the Wii, sure (with a few exceptions). They also made 21 games for the Wii U, I think they are definitely the most prolific publishers after Nintendo. I will admit that they got burnt though, and that kind of explains their cautious approach to the Switch (which is still better than EA's).
@BinaryFragger
Yeah Boom Blox was really good fun. Had some great times with that in multiplayer especially.
"...you can expect us to be there once the platform launches and takes off."
If it doesn't seriously take off, don't expect EA to be there.
@BinaryFragger I wouldn't really use Ubisoft as an example of failed support for the WiiU. Quite the opposite actually. 2 launch titles, both not bad. ZombiU is one of the better survival games and the gamepad makes it the definitive version. They even released the AC games on the WiiU up until Unity which even ran poorly on PS4/Xbone so you can't really blame them. They even ported Watch Dogs. If anything, they might have shown too much support given the lackluster sales numbers of 3rd party software on WiiU
With so many years in the making why has Nintendo not had more games for this year's launch, more variety. Not everyone wants Zelda. Most people have got Mario kart already.
But........ I think the real launch for Switch is Late September. When Mario arrives.
Bundles and Offers, with everythig Mario everywhere.
Honestly, I'm probably the most excited the Image and Form has stated they will be developing for the Switch. I hope SteamWorld Heist (one of the very best strategy games ever) gets ported over and look forward to any new strategy entries in the future from them. Add that to the normal Nintendo caliber games (Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem) and a number of other assorted games and I'm pretty happy so far. I hope a robust virtual console is launched and a number of other games interest me. I do hope the Switch sells enough to interest more 3rd party development but as of right now I'm pretty excited as is.
@gortsi I've branched out to Dragon Quest and Ace Attorney since then, but they won't factor into Nintendo console talk until Dragon Quest 11 comes out. It's a shame that Capcom and Square Enix didn't grab me years ago so my search for their backlogs wouldn't be in conflict with my desire to support the Switch. Guess that's what happens when there's a wall of shame like the Wii had.
I think lumping in Capcom and Ubisoft with EA is a bit misleading - I've been a basketball fan for 25 years (go bulls [except rondo]), and EA's basketball (and other sports game) ports have been shoddy half-efforts even allowing for Nintendo's less powerful systems. What I want to see from NBA 2K18 is signs that EA put in effort to make it the best game they could given the circumstances, even if it's not the best game they can.
Maybe it won't sell. I don't know. I do know this - if EA half-BUTTs (great shovel knight code) their efforts again, then there's no maybe about it.
This is what I have been saying for years, it's Nintendo's job to make the system attractive to third parties and making it easier to develop for certainly helps but that alone won't cut it! Make the system sell Nintendo! Only then will the third party giants jump in!
@JLPick Not to nitpick, but there's no way Nintendo has more money than the other two combined. Microsoft has a lot of cash.
@Anti-Matter I'm sorry to say this (and i don't wanna feel like i'm stalking you but i just can't take this anymore..) but that mentality is just plain stupid. What do you even consider "Adult" games? Would you consider a game like The Last Guardian "Adult"?
Or for instance a game like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter (i'm sorry but it's the first game of this kind that came to my mind), would you consider that game an "Adult" game and thus "impure"? I really want to understand you but i just can't and what's crazier is that no one here seems to realize how weird that way of thinking is.. They just seem to ignore you.. I like all kinds of games btw, and i actually like more "peaceful" games than action/agressive games so i'm not being biased here..
@Ibberson
C'mon people stop to say that those are gimmicky controls! Joycons have the same functionality (ok analogue triggers are missing... however, many so called hardcore gamers do not know how analogue controls work) as a f...ing ps4/Xbox one controller! As it was with the wiiU gamepad!!!
@BiasedSonyFan
"That means nothing. At the end of the day, they're all businesses. In the world of business, businesses make business decisions for one reason and one reason only: to make money. A business model is just a means to that end."
All businesses are not the same. They're not even the same within each industry. And it is possible to know this less-than-subtle nuance while discussing the means to that universal end.
"Since gamers strictly want to talk about business, then they need to accept cold business logic."
Define 'gamers'. That's an awful lot of people who apparently strictly want to talk about business.
"Gamers simply have no right to complain."
All 'gamers'? About anything? It's all getting very Orwellian here. Ultimately I agree people should vote with their wallets as they see fit. It doesn't mean they can't discuss it first.
"Their criticism of Nintendo is just as much noise to businesses as criticism of third party companies."
Are you genuinely suggesting that all third-parties and Nintendo pay exactly the same amount of attention to criticism as each other, i.e. not at all? It's not going to take long to refute that.
Lets keep it On Topic. This is an article about how it is not third-parties responsibility to make Switch a success. It is the platform holders responsibility. They're different entities open to different criticisms and levels of criticism.
@darth2d2 Sounds like a great game. I just recently began watching Hockey (not much of a sports person honestly, which is why I'm surprised I liked hockey as much when I began watching it this past year) and am not familiar with previous games. I'm all for more hockey games and hope they start coming this way.
@BinaryFragger
UBI Soft were always up against it after the Rayman Legends thing unfortunately. Some people took that really personally. Shame as some of their games were very good and simultaneous releases with other platforms. They also put out one of the few non-Nintendo exclusives on the system (which was a gamble as it was definitely not a Wii-style game but....also didn't do as well as they hoped)
"but it has nevertheless been latched onto by some news outlets, who seemingly cite it as evidence that the Switch is cursed to suffer the same fate as the Wii U"
Yep, and Nintendo Life (part of the Eurogamer network) along with third party apologists and company meatbots will help spread the negativity. Nintendo will be hoping that just under three months of rumour-mongering and muck-spreading doesn't do as much damage to Switch as the year or so's worth of disinformation/gossip that abetted the Wii U's failure.
Nintendo needs to do 2 things to be successful.
1 Make a console that 3rd parties can easily port games too.
2 Advertise the heck out the console.
The WiiU failed at both of these, and the Switch has a battle ahead of it already if the week hardware rumours are true.
This kind of goes without saying. It is Nintendo's system. They understand this point more than anybody. Japanese people aren't known for playing the blame game. There are ways for them to coax 3rd party developers into developing for the system... 1 such way being cash.
@dizzy_boy Umm.. No. There is more than one formula to success and true success doesn't come from being a follower, it comes from becoming a leader.
@gortsi "Gentle reminder that even when a Nintendo console vastly outsells the competition third parties still put out shovelware of the worst sort //pietriots.com/2010/12/17/the-3rd-party-wall-of-shame/"
Great article. Great site.
@BiasedSonyFan
"This is irrelevant. Nuances or not, where cold business logic is concerned, businesses function to make money. That is it."
I agree they exist to make money. There is nothing wrong (to most people anyway) in discussing how they do it. The nuances are not irrelevant at all.
"You're criticizing Nintendo in a field that you nothing about or not do not know as much about as a multi-billion dollar company: business."
It's still very Orwellian, this. So people should only discuss things they know a lot about? What about politics, music, movies, economics? What level of expertise should they have? Who gets to decide what level of expertise they should have?
I get that you're very keen to stop any criticism of Nintendo but it's not your place to police these boards
"Nintendo think they can't make money by blindly pricing their consoles and video games at the prices that you want."
What price did I say they should price their consoles and games at?
"You want to remind gamers who feel third parties have an obligation to make video games for their console that those third parties are only acting in their own best monetary interest?"
Yes. I never said they were right, but I will reiterate again, third-parties and platform holders are different entities.
"Then you better remember that it's the same for Nintendo when they decide to price their consoles they way that they do. They're not obligated to price their consoles at less than $299 USD."
I haven't said they were obligated. I personally feel their chances of success would have increased if they had.
"Just as discussion about what third parties ought to do for gamers gets shut down when cold business logic is used, when that same logic is used, gamers are also unable to voice their complaints about what Nintendo ought to do for their pricing of the Switch."
They're not mutually exclusive.
"Nintendo is trying to make money; you're not."
I've never said anything different. So I'll reiterate again, Nintendo and everybody else in the industry wants to make money. However they have different means to that end. These companies are not the same. Their methods and the success levels of those methods are open to discussion whether you or anybody else likes it or not.
""It's Nintendo's Job To Make Switch A Success, Not EA's, Ubisoft's Or Capcom's""
Obvious, It's correct, but, oh well, try that "Annoying fans", "Desperate fans", "Disappointed fans", "Troll fans" get it...
I'm sure everyone else has already covered the main points above, but just one thing to add; "-basically, if your games don't sell well on a particular platform-" -it sucked. Its not the console's fault - the concept, gameplay and overall selling point for the game was just not good enough. You did something wrong, and that's all there is to it.
I'm not saying the Switch should be immune to all criticism. Far from it, if the games Nintendo also releases on the system bomb, the same applies. The game sucked in some way or another and the lack of sales will be proof of that.
So the answer is simple right? Either fix that game, advertise it better so that its message is clear, or drop the game entirely and go for something else. It's not because enough people don't own the platform... If anything, more people being on a system just means there's going to be more people ignoring the game - because it still sucked.
@Stargazer
"Welp, when your system isn't powerful enough to painlessly port AAA games on other systems from third parties you already have an uphill battle on your hands"
umm... Steep? NBA2K18? FIFA18? Dragon Quest XI? Pachter's supposedly sourced comments saying Switch is the easiest of the 3 homes consoles to develop for?
Unless you've got a dev kit and are willing to be vetted as a source, keep your snark to yourself please. You don't know what you're talking about.
@Damo "What doesn't help in the Switch's case is the fact that it's clearly not powerful enough to handle PS4 and XB1 games, so the idea of releasing a title on all three at the same time is out of the window. We're always going to get scaled-down versions or last-gen ports. That's not really the fault of third parties, that's just a fact of life when you make a system which doesn't have technical parity with its rivals."
I imagine games will often be scaled down for the Switch, but your "last gen ports" comment may have been a misleading overstatement. Do you know what kind of hardware gets last gen ports? Last gen hardware. That's what the Wiiu was with it's outdated CPU. The Switch on the other hand is not last gen, it's very modern, but on different terms than what will be its competition. It's got advanced input functions, limitless flexibility, and cutting edge mobile graphics tech. A combination of features that haven't been seen in one device before. Not to mention that it can run UE4, one of the more popular high-end rendering engines. At the end of the day, I imagine that the Switch will have some interesting third-party support, if those guys at Nintendo play their cards right.
Nintendo...Play their cards...Almost ran into a pun there.😜
@Syrek24 "Not appealing to Wii U users" isn't a reason to disregard a game. A userbase has plenty of different people with varied tastes. Stop lumping third parties together and cherry-picking.
@BinaryFragger dag namit you beat me to it
@DanteSolablood I consider that the same era. That happened at the tail end of SNES and early N64 early days after Nintendo kicked Sony out of their SNES CD ROM bed. It was also well known that the N64 was hard to develop for. That combined with the runaway success of the PS1, which exclusive FF7 had a significant contribution, humbled Nintendo. They went through the N64 era learning that they werent the biggest fish anymore and they needed the help of 3rd parties. They were very vocal about the need to make an easier platform and better business model with the GC and pretty much every new console after. Even with that realization, they still always struggled to woo and keep 3rd parties. For many reasons, some I pointed out in my original post. Also, the demographic started to change. With the PS1 era, gamers started to want more mature oriented games. Gamers started to mature and the content they wanted started to be more edgy and more adult. Nintendo's platform has always been more whimsical and younger at heart. Most 3rd parties wanted to go with the trend and develop for the more popular, more mature Sony and MS platforms. Sure there were some attempts to bring mature games like Resident Evil and a handful of others that had some success. But their brand could just never shake the "kiddie" console type cast. That still exists to this date. Its like an actor cast in an epic role always being type cast only as that character or character type. I really think thats the bigger reason for their inability to atttact original 3rd party content. There is a certain type of player that enjoys Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Yoshi games. Those people play Nintendo consoles. But that is not the mass market. So yeah, a 3rd party will throw ports at their console. But making original content for a platform targeted at a smaller demographic is a harder sell.
The point I was originally trying to make still stands. Nintendo hasnt thumbed their noses at 3rd parties for several console generations. And the problem and dynamics involved are much more complex than the writer of this article suggests.
@AcesHigh Of course Nintendo was still charging developers much higher license fees than either Sony or Microsoft all through the Gamecube era. However, my only issue was conflating the SNES with the N64 era. While you might count these as the same thing, there was a big old time between the start of one & t'other & as you mentioned there was the Sony Playstation tussle during the middle of that.
At least we got some Phillips CDi games out of Nintendo's folly.
Ironic that this features the most money grabbing companies aroud!
@DanteSolablood Yeah, I just see that cartridge era as the beginning of the end of their arrogance towards the development community. They started to turn the page with the GC gen. They made the platform easier to develop for and finally released a disc based platform (though it was still proprietary). They also managed to get an exclusive window for RE4 out of Capcom. Which shows that they tried.
Yes... we all certainly enjoyed Zelda on CDi... <baaaaarf>
@mechamen8
I'm sorry to make you curious. I will explain. I'm a Kiddie gamer. I'm 32 years old young man. I ONLY play games with rated Everyone, Everyone 10+ & Teen for USA rating / CERO A & CERO B for Japan rating / PEGI 3 , 7 & 12 for Europe rating. I Love Cute, Kiddie looking, Chibi form, Peaceful, Quirky, Hilarious and colorful games like Animal Crossing, MySims, Animal Boxing NDS, Fantasy Life 3DS, etc. But, I EXTREMELY HATE games rated Mature / 18+ with sadistic, gory, blood, profanity, explicit killing, criminals, drugs, smoking, demons, fps, Dark theme, etc. So, I will NEVER EVER got interested with all adult games that most people like it. Instead, I feel Disgust and Angry with those games, especially when I realized some of young audiences especially my students play those adult games. That raised my concern as a teacher in Primary School (I'm a School Librarian + Substitute teacher + Art teacher) about Real Danger from those adult games. Some of my students (Especially boys) tends to use profanity, being rude, expressing their ideas on school worksheet with their experience about adultery things, etc. I ever have one student (Grade 6 last year) that HEAVILY contaminated with Adult games , so he can't think like normal people, he can't follow the lessons at all, he can't behave politely and moreover, he ever TEASED me with his comments about how wonderful to indulgence in Adultery things ( Killing people, have drugs, sex, profanity). Can you imagine how DISASTROUS the negative effects from adult games ? That's why I kept saying i'm against all adult games. Sorry for my confessions. I just want peoples can playing games in Positive way, no need to play adult games just for feel like a real man or etc. Hopefully you understand me because i'm different. There are still some "Peaceful" gamers like me like to play Appropriate games.
@Vineleaf Game wise. Microsoft has a lot for internet, but their game company is a little separate from that. Sony has/had computers, televisions, Bluray (which Microsoft and other companies that use bluray end up paying a cost to sony for it's usage) and the game company as well as movies (which they are a part of Universal, which Universal owns many film companies). Sorry, I just get tired of everyone busting on one company over the other, but Nintendo does have billions upon billions, due to shares, their IP's alone (which if they ended up going out of business, could you imagine how much they could sell each IP for?). They've got quite a while before they go bankrupt, but if the Switch sells as bad as the Wii U or even the Gamecube, and then they make another console that sells just as bad, then they'd probably think about doing something about it...but I would see Sony buying them up, especially since Universal bought a little of nintendo for the theme park addition (or vice versa)...plus, nintendo and sony have had a good friendship and worked with each other in the past (sony made quite a few games for the NES, Atari and Sega in the days)...the thing I get a kick out of, is the fact that I have a few music Cassette tapes from artists that were horrible, with nintendo's logo on it as a Music company...something that is probably rare now.
Developers will chase the money. Switch is also a handheld, arguably Nintendo's strength the last two generations. If that, coupled with a vaunted easier development environment for 3rd parties, is present Nintendo might just be able to ride the Switch back to Nintendo levels of success.
How tough this will be is unfathomable, but step one is to make sure the games are there, especially this first year. I think Christmas will be the decider.
@Anti-Matter I understand what you're saying about kids playing violent games, my mother was a primary school teacher and she had to deal with some of that as well.. What i don't understand (and this is kind of a contradiction here..) is why you say you feel ANGRY and you HATE adult games, doesn't that make you feel what you shouldn't be feeling in the first place? If you tell me that you try to prevent kids (specially your students) from getting exposed to these kind of games because of the violence, profanity, etc. i understand.. But if you say that NO ONE, including adult people shouldn't play ADULT games because you had a traumatic experience when you were young, that just doesn't make any sense at all
First of all because not all Adult games are as violent or full of gore as you think and secondly because you have no right to tell other adult people what to or not to do.
I don't want you to think that i'm attacking you or anything i just really think that your mentality is not as healthy as you think, unless i'm missing something.. :/
PS: I used to play games like Duke Nukem, Blood, Hexen, Road Rash and others when i was really young (maybe 7-8 yrs old) and that didn't change me at all, i'm still the most down to earth person i know, and very nice to
@Damo i wouldn't say that yet about the Switch hardware. We still don't know what CPU is being used in it. For all we know it could have a72 or a73 in it which on par if not stronger than the CPU in the Xbox One and PS4...It won't run with the same graphical effects as the x86 twins due the GPU most being weaker...Even then, the GPU have some call mixed procession where CUDA can use something call half compute. Anyway, the Switch should be able to handle ports this time around...
@NintendoFan4Lyf Great point about DOOM; honestly, I think DOOM would be a better fit than Skyrim IMHO.
@BinaryFragger LOL! Then mission accomplished!
@mechamen8
Thanks for the comments.
The reason why I felt disgust and angry against adult games, because they are simply.... EVIL.
I hate Evil things.
I want to play NICE games, not EVIL games.
You know, adultery things like that are Evil things and I will never ever want to compromize with those damn things. I stay away from those evil things, just want to deal with good things that built positive behaviors. Hopefully you understand with my condition.
This article is making me consider cancelling my pre-order, because it's right. It is down to Nintendo to make a success of the Switch, and to be honest that fills me with fear, Nintendo are already making some of the same mistakes they made with the Wii U and even 3DS.
The company is being too cocky by thinking everyone will want a home console they can take 'on the go', which just isn't true. Despite owning a Wii U and 3DS, I rarely game outside of my house, because if I'm outside I'm either running errands, sightseeing, attending events, etc. So for people like me, having Nintendo think they can ask for too much money for some games and accessories isn't really going to wash.
Why have I pre-ordered a Switch then? Because I want to experience BotW is the best possible way, especially considering it's been my most anticipated game for years now. But is it worth it when I own a Wii U and the game is cheaper for that system? I don't know at this point, I really don't. I'm not fussed by forking out for Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon again (yes, I know it's a 'sequel'), and with third-party support being quite thin on the ground in 2017 the next major release that I'd be interested in is obviously Mario Odyssey, which isn't out until November-ish. Hmm... I've got some serious thinking to do.
@Spiders This thing is barely more powerful than the Wii U. Take off your fanboy goggles and join the real world
Plain simple how dumb are these people. How can Nintendo be who they used to be without support and games lol ?????
@Aneira your just plain dumb on Nintendo has more money then Sony and Xbox combined. As far as the switch 2millon switch has been preordered and yes a few months we will all see.lol regardless if it fails they still have more money lol that's just FACts lol
@Loui games from 3rd parties the switch cant sell with no games lol
Before I even consider a Switch, Monster Hunter has to be on it. Far more vital than Link, Mario, Smash, Kart. Love MH.
@electrolite77 Why are you guys always talking about all this negative crap when it comes to Nintendo. Nobody wants to hear that mess all the time. You guys keep rambling on about things you don't expect to change. And your having too much fun with it. If you don't expect it to change then learn to deal with it and find something else to talk about. Or maybe just leave Nintendo alone and go find some other hobby. Sony and Microsoft are both far from perfect, but I don't hear their fans rambling on about what they hate about the companies. Man, I hope in 20 years we're not still talking about the Wiiu's low support and how that is supposed to effect its fourth successor. Sorry about the rant guys, it's just that I'm bored of this. 😒
Note: I'm not referring to the subject of this page. The subject of this page is fine, and speaks the truth. It is Nintendo's responsibility to ensure that the Switch sells. What bothers me is the constant comments about why the company won't succeed. You guys honestly think that Nintendo wasn't aware of the kind of market the Switch would be competing in? Come on. The company is up to something, and right now it's not clear what it is, but I would reserve judgement until we see how the Switch performs.
@ThatNyteDaez
That's unfair to some really good games that over the years haven't got the sales they deserved. The same happens in music and cinema and plenty of other fields. Sales don't necessarily indicate quality, or lack of. I still don't get why Zack and Wiki flopped or F-Zero GX failed so badly Nintendo are terrific of making another one. I don't think it was because they 'sucked' though.
@BiasedSonyFan
It's isn't hypocritical at all. You keep trying to draw the same overly-simplistic comparison in an attempt to stop negative comments about Nintendo. It doesn't work, it's facile, and I'm not going to keep going over the same ground explaining why.
If all you want is positive comments then I'll give you the same advice as I'll give @CircuitWrangler3, which is stick to www.Nintendo.com.
Oh and P.S. to CircuitWrangler3, if you don't see "Sony and Microsoft....fans rambling on about what they hate about the companies" you're not looking hard enough. Whether it be over lack of exclusives, poor games on PS Plus, the consoles being under-powered, Scalebound bring cancelled, lack of support for the Vita, DRM, cancelling Accounts or whatever it's not hard to find.
@JLPick
the thing I get a kick out of, is the fact that I have a few music Cassette tapes from artists that were horrible, with nintendo's logo on it as a Music company...something that is probably rare now."
Wow. I didn't know such a thing existed. Excellent. Who are they by, for example?
There needs to be Pokemon.
I would've had S&M as a Switch launch title if I was in charge. 🤔
The Switch is damned before it even launches. Poor decisions yet again mean we're looking at another Wii U.
Did someone really say that Nintendo has more money than Sony and Microsoft? Does it hell!!! Microsoft and Sony have several other business arms to keep them going even if their consoles don't do well. PS3 wasn't a resounding success but Sony weren't worried because it did well enough and they have such massive businesses elsewhere. You know, TVs , record labels, stereo systems. Microsoft gave immense income from other places than gaming.
Why do you think Nintendo have started releasing mobile games? To gain more income. Nintendo simply cannot match Sony and Microsoft financially so they have to try and be innovative.
Switch is slightly overpriced but saying it's doomed before it even releases is laughable.
You'd think it was only Nintendo who released turkeys. PlayStation VR? Sony have done pretty much zero advertising. Sony are not even announcing new games but rather the odd add on section of a game here and there. PS4 Pro is already being grumbled about by developers because although it does have extra power, it isn't actually much better than the base model. Sony don't care though because they are so far ahead in this generation that it won't hurt them too much.
Nintendo can't join this generation, what they can do is offer something a bit different. Something that isn't currently offered. The nearest you have is the Vita, which by the way has been a total failure. A great little machine but no one really cared or cares about it.
Let's not try and delude ourselves that Nintendo can compete on an equal footing as Sony or Microsoft. They cannot which is why they haven't tried to and i believe Switch will do very well, without worrying about the other 2. Hell will have to freeze over before MARIO turns up for either Sony or Microsoft so Nintendo won't be dropping out of console development any time soon whether some of you want them to or not.
If EA don't fully support Switch then I'm not sure I really care. I love FIFA. They do make good games but they are hardly innovative.
I've never bought a console based on EA games. I have bought Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games as have milllions of others and so it will be with the Switch.
I've said it before on this site and will do so again. If you want a Nintendo Switch, and you can find one, buy one!! If you think it will fail don't buy one!!!!!!!
It's not rocket science. Either don't buy it or do. I've ordered mine and can't wait to get Switching.
Once again, if you're not interested, just Switch off!
@electrolite77 I'm aware that Sony and Microsoft gamers complain; they complained about the Xbox One's DRM before it even launched, they complained about the PS4 Pro's lack of certain features before it even launched, and so on and so forth. But then they got over it and those consoles sold. It's the difference between them and many Nintendo gamers. Sure, I know that the games helped, for the XB1 and PS4, but I just get a sense that many members of Nintendo's audience are sliding into a depression that is altering their outlook.
And I don't expect positive news where it isn't deserved, but I don't expect negative news where it isn't deserved either. The public keeps associating the Switch with the Wiiu, when it has little in common with the console outside of portability. And no the approach to graphics isn't the same; the Wiiu used a dated CPU, the Switch on the other hand, uses modern chips and associated software. If the switch fails, it would be for its own reasons, not because it's another Wiiu.
And I'm just...so tired of the Wii being ignored. It proved that a console can be marketed successfully without it going head to head in the graphics race. Yet the Wiiu is what people refer to when talking about the Switch's presumably modest console mode. It is creating unfair assumptions that the Switch will fail.
If the Switch isn't going after the PS4 and Xbox One in specs then we should assume that it wasn't designed for that particular audience. Yet people keep calling it a possible failure because they don't predict that it will appeal to Playstation and Xbox loyalists. It's a common illogical analysis that is starting to frustrate me. Especially because I'm aware that the success of any console really comes down to its ability to reach its intended audience.
Anyway, I just feel like there's too many opinions of the Switch going around, considering that there's little understanding of what the console is all about in terms of where it's aiming. And a lot of people are being misguided and misinformed in the process.
Does the Switch have the tools to find its place in the gaming market? We'll just have to wait and see. I have high hopes, maybe that's why I preordered one. 😉
I agree completely with the message of this article. Sure, absolutely, a lot of publishers are money grabbing monsters with little care for the consumer unless its goimg to line their pockets with gold. But that simply means its Nintendos responsibility to ensure there is money to be made in developing for the Switch. Whether the Switch will be that success or not is anyones guess and no one can predict what will happen over the next 12-24 month. But if the Switch is a financial success you can bet your bottom dollar we will be seeing things like Boom blox: Switch, Fifa, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed and im sure plenty of other support from publishers who want a peice of the Switch success pie. Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but we will see.
@CircuitWrangler3 I almost feel like I owe you an apology because recentlyni have been one of the many sliding into depression over the Switch!
All joking aside though, while I still have my concerns, im very happy to be getting a Switch on launch. The one thing that really frustrates me is peoples complaints about the price of the system and its accessories. It is VERY competitive with the Ps4 and xbox one. In fact, on balance its a whole lot cheaper.
@roboshort I never said Nintendo had to follow, tell me where I said that.
As for being a leader, what exactly has Nintendo been leading lately. Motion controls and dual screen games are pretty much done with, and their games aren't exactly pushing boundaries either.
@Slim1999
What are you 6 years old? You're basically saying that if your business is failing and you lose money, you'll just keep on going because your tank isn't empty yet? Lol... that's just beautiful. Thank god you're not employed in any company around the globe.
@JLPick LMAO. Nintendo does NOT have more money than Sony/M$ combined.
Stop making up stuff to prop up nintendo.
@KirbyTheVampire I think he is probably talking about the wider decades-old trend in sales here. The Wii/DS-era was imho an anomaly for various reasons. If you isolate it, and then look at the rest, the picture is completely clear. Sales for Nintendo's homeconsoles have been dropping on a very consistent rate:
If you projected the sales of the WiiU based on the trend established by the NES->SNES->N64->GC sales history, the WiiU is almost exactly where it 'should' be.
The story is different with handhelds, where sales were actually growing until the DS, but obviously the impact of smartdevices is felt heavily there, and will continue to do so - which btw, also further diminishes the potential of the hybrid-device, that is the Switch in my view.
Anyways, if you accept the significane of historical date, and are willing to acknowledge that the Wii was most likely a one time thing, then there is nothing 'wrong' with the WiiU sales, and then the Switch is poised to sell less than 10 Million Units. To put it differently, that would be a more or less accurate extrapolation of past data, under the given circumstances (which sofar would have been correct for any Nintendo homeconsole except the Wii).
@Syrek24
"Third parties just didn't care and were sabatoging Nintendo from the start, that much is clear, hence why I couldn't care less about most third party developers any more. Their arrogance and lack of ethics is utterly disgusting and we should not be supporting such slimy business practices/games."
Yeezus, you make Nintendo out to be a saint when that isn't the case. lol # third parties sabotaging Nintendo. Nintendo sabotaged themselves on more than one occasion. lol @ calling third parties arrogant. You must've not been born during the NES era when Nintendo's arrogance was at its peak. That's the definition of arrogant
@dizzy_boy You did not say it explicitly, but that is pretty much the conclusion one would draw from your two statements.
I don't think motion controls are done.... At least not after playing ARMS. The Wiimote's motion controls were really primitive compared to those of the joycon. It's like comparing an NES controller to a Gamecube controller.
Nintendo is not a leader right now, but Nintendo's console is innovative, which is the first step in becoming a leader. If you don't see that, you aren't looking at it objectively and letting your negativity cloud your vision. Whether it succeeds or not is a different story, though.
From what I can tell the Switch has got many people's attention. I know people who are PS4 and Xbox One owners and that never had Wii or Wii U and their last Nintendo system was the GameCube are looking into buying the Switch. Nintendo just needs to keep up the momentum and have systems available for people to buy.
Stop making weak hardware Nintendo. That's one of their biggest problems.
I play Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Whether or not they have the latest iteration of Fifa is irrelevant to me. I'm probably in the minority, but third party for me is simply to supplement Nintendo's output, nothing more than that.
@BinaryFragger
You are talking about the whole MS business... their console division has been very close to shutdown, as it didn't/doesn't make enough money, so yes, Nintendo are swimming in money more than the other two.
@electrolite77 There's one that I have called the Electric Steam Punks...yeah, don't know who they are either, and the songs weren't even good, just one of those things that I found it cheap, picked it up to boost up my collection of cassettes at the time. I don't know if you can even look them up to see, I've tried to look up the artist with zero results, but it was something neat. If I find my cassette collection again, I'll snap a picture and post it on here for you!
If I recall the XBox One didn't exactly fly off the shelves in its first year and yet it got all the multiplatform 3rd party support consistently. Wii U never benefitted from the same level of support.
Clearly the Switch is likely to suffer the same or worse fate regarding 3rd party support. If it does then it seems likely to be a great but low selling console just like Wii U. When you add in all the other things that Nintendo are doing wrong with Switch, its chances of success seem to be low.
I love my Wii U and will just stick with it, not even considering buying a Switch at this point. Frankly, Nintendo have made it a very easy decision for me.
@ap0001 EA is not the one making NBA2K, their basketball game is NBA Live
@IrateGamer lol. True and to the point. 👍🏻
@SLIGEACH_EIRE If the Switch was more powerful then the price would be $349 to $399,at least 400 Euro in Ireland.It would't stand a chance.Or they could have stripped the Switch of all it's innovative features to cut costs and just gave us a console with more power at $299 but then it wouldn't feel like a Nintendo machine.The thing is,of all the negative comments I've read about the Switch,the vast majority aren't concerning its lack of power.The price (which I think is fair for what it is) . paid online (sign of the times) ,the cost of peripherals (valid complaint) and lack of launch line up (another valid complaint) seem to be the major cause of concern.
@Ryu_Niiyama I 100% agree with everything you've said. Great comment!
@CircuitWrangler3
Yeah fair points. I'm actually really optimistic it will do well (by which I mean maybe up to 3DS numbers) (and I have a pre-order) and it has a few niches it can hit. Nintendo fans of course, I think it'll do very well in Japan, kids will eventually come on board, adults for whom a high powered portable fits into their lifestyle. I don't think it needs to try and pull in the COD crowd and if it has enough exclusive content it will pull in some XB/PS players and PC gamers as a second console.
If I'm critical it's only because 26 years of being a Nintendo fan, while loving a lot of their games, is a long time to be getting frustrated with them over some of their decisions. I'd love to see Switch do well but it's walking a tightrope and they've got a lot of little things they've got to get right.
@JLPick
Brilliant. This is real news to me!
You seem to be working under the assumption that anyone is upset over the third party situation because the fanbase feels owed or that the same fanbase is under the presumption that it is up to third parties to make this work.
No one is saying that.
It's up to Nintendo you got that part right, they have to convince third parties. What the current showing has brought us is that Nintendo was unable to convince not only third parties, but also their share holders that this thing is worth their time and money. When Sony and Microsoft launched their systems they not only convinced their 3rd party partners that their machines were worth the time, but also got them on board for console specific features of current holiday releases. Where is watch dogs 2? Where was dues ex? Where was south park the fractured but whole? Where was ghost recon? Where was tales of bersaria? Anything in the 6 months leading up to this thing, where is it? Developers are not confident in the hardware power, Nintendo's ability to sell the consumer base on underpowered versions of IP on the go.
So where does this leave us. Hope that Nintendo can bring new IP out fast enough to fill the void till 3rd parties decide what they want to do with this thing while ps4 still brings in the money. Don't get me wrong I love Nintendo games and I enjoy the Wii u, but it was a console that arrived for the wrong console generation. This thing is arriving 2 1/2 years late to this one. All we have to look at is relaunched titles, half hearted last gen remasters, Zelda/Mario, and a good looking new Nintendo IP that reminds us of why we hate the Wii. This is not a good start. Nintendo failed to convince them, you seem to be riding under the impression that Nintendo selling its own games will some how fix this. The window for the first year is not the time to do that. Those releases need to be seen by third parties before launch. It takes 2 to 3 years to make a game at minimum these days. Nintendo played its cards so close to its chest that no one knows what to do with this thing. Now we will see what Nintendo does in the first year and with a little luck by the third year we will start to see releases. Assuming Microsoft and Sony aren't releasing tthr Xbox Zero and PlayStation 5 by then and ask those same developers to pay attention to their new machines all the while making portable versions of their ps4 and Xbox one.
@BiasedSonyFan
We're going over old ground here. This is just another attempt to expand and explain a comparison that I've already set aside as a false equivalence.
I know what you're getting at with the comparison but no matter how you phrase it, I will reiterate again that I don't think it's valid. Not even close.
Likewise while I have a grudging admiration for your attempts to stem criticism of Nintendo-fair play, in a way, for confronting something that obviously troubles you head on. It might seem legitimate, deep within the Nintendo bubble, to do so by drawing irrelevant comparisons or dismissing peoples opinions because of self-imposed validity criteria that mean nobody can have an opinion about anything ever. But it doesn't work out here. And I’m not going to keep typing the same responses over and over.
@Anti-Matter But that's what i don't understand.. That's kind of contradictory, if you want to remain 'pure' than you shouldn't be feeling Hate in the first place, because then you're being exactly what you hate the most..
I'm ok with your 'condition', what i wouldn't be ok with would be if you came at me telling me what to or not to do, specially because i'm practically as old as you are and the games i play don't define who i am (this is all hypothetically speaking of course because we don't even know each other lol).
Like i said before not all Adult games are evil, not all of them include ultra unnecessary violence, gore, adultery or any of that weird stuff so putting everything in the same bag without truly understanding it is not the right thing to do (in my opinion)..
I'm just gonna say it exactly the way I see it. Nintendo is dying. No I am not being a troll. No Nintendo is not doomed. But yes Nintendo is dying.
Nintendo in the current state of things is a dying brand. This is the one single explanation for why their console install base is dwindling. SNES > N64 > GameCube > Wii U.
Although the decrease in console popularity was most marked from the SNES to N64 (and what I will say here is most crucial to me), the Nintendo 64 is not the console I disfavour. The console that single-handedly shattered my image of what Nintendo was all about was the GameCube.
By then I realized a few things, most important among which being that the 1st party title experiences and IP prioritization were not interesting.
For one, I could just not fathom how they prioritized a Luigi starring launch title over a Mario game - especially since Mario 64 was in my opinion the most important game Nintendo had ever made on a Nintendo console and I still see it as such to this day (let's skip any talk of their portable titles here).
For two, I still find their aesthetic choices for The Wind Waker to be confusing and misguided (yes Wind Waker HD was beautiful, but I digress). I also first lost interest in the look and feel of Mario Kart and Mario Party games on the GameCube. The overarching point being that the GameCube, in spite of it technically competing with the Xbox and PS2 continued the dwindling console sales when it shouldn't have.
The N64, and this is key, was also technically competent. It was also as graphically impressive as the PS1 if not more so in certain respects such as GPU and higher polygon count. I can't entirely recall if this had anything to do with cartridge > CD so will not comment.
In summary, the N64 1st party output impressed me, in leaps and bounds (and I cannot stress this enough) over the GameCube. That is why I purchased a Nintendo console.
That is why MANY purchased a Nintendo console. And that is also why the arbitrary ten million that did purchase a Nintendo 64 did not purchase a GameCube in the next era.
The game experiences suffered drastically. The Wind Waker (as great a game as it is on its own terms) cannot be compared to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on the N64. Luigi's Mansion and Mario Sunshine cannot be compared to Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day. Nightfire cannot be compared to Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Mario Party 4, 5, 6 and 7 cannot be compared to Mario Party 1, 2 and 3. Mario Kart: Double Dash!! cannot be compared to Mario Kart 64 and Diddy Kong Racing on the N64. These are cumulative experiences. No one game in a series gets compared to one other, this is what I mean by cumulative experiences.
The ONLY explanation for Nintendo's dwindling install base (and I ASSURE you that this WILL continue this generation just from merely looking at Odyssey) is that Nintendo as a DEVELOPER has lost the ability to compete and see to its strengths.
@jobunker
Don't worry. I believe Switch will gonna switchin' the situation. We will see after first launching. And I still LOVE Nintendo no matter what happened to them.
These companies don't owe customers anything but it's a two way street, the customers don't owe Nintendo or those third party sales either.
If a particular third party is waiting for the Nintendo Switch to be a success before they support it they'll basically prove themselves unnecessary to the system and its audience in the case it is successful, as the Switch would have been a success without them.
By not providing support while the audience for the system builds up there would be no one who bought the system for that particular third party's games. So by the time they do decide to support it they'll find themselves with a much lesser audience and that is certainly their own fault for not establishing themselves on the system.
On the same note I don't think it's wrong that Nintendo systems have much higher 1st party sales than third party when its pretty much placed on Nintendo's games to build the audience for the system. If the Switch audience is built with Mario, Zelda, Splatoon,Smash Bros,Fire Emblem... two or three years later those are still going to be the types of games the system's audience wants. A publisher can't just plop "Deathkill 3: The final chapter" on the system and expect the audience to play the conclusion of a series they haven't played.
@Dr_Lugae Nicely put. That would make them "fair weather friends". They only want to come and see you when they know you're doing well.
@jobunker It's true. Nintendo is a small company from the 80's and was never able too compete against Sony. It is estimated 20 000 people work in the Playstation division with several AAA studios having over 200 employees while Nintendo has only 5000 employees and zero AAA studio.
And the same can be said about the whole japanese industry. They were never able to adapt to the AAA market. Capcom, Square, Sega, Konami, they all wanted to be the japanese EA and they all failed and they're all getting crushed by the western publishers on the Playstation market. When Nintendo will fall the rest of the japanese industry won't take long to follow. It's going to be like Sega. Sega was the biggest showcase for arcade gaming. When Sega stopped making hardware the showcase disappeared and arcade gaming died.
Step number 1: STOP supporting the 3ds after 2017.
Nintendo needs to completely focus on making sure the Switch is a very attractive device for gamers by ensuring constant first party support, and if they keep making games for 3ds that's only gonna hurt the amount of Switch games coming out.
@Ryu_Niiyama Couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm really glad to see EA jump on board. They are relevant to have producing for your system.
@SecondServing
I actually agree with this even if in the short run killing off a money generator seems counterintuitive. Having all Nintendos dev capability on one machine will be an attractive proposition to many. Third-party games can still come out for it.
@Windy
Yes, a lot of people don't like them but the Switch would really benefit from a raft of quality sports games and that's where you need EA.
While I don't disagree with this article, I also think that third-parties shouldn't blame the lack of success many of their games have on the console on Nintendo either.
Choosing which games to release on a Nintendo console based on their success on other systems is an unwise move to take early on in a console's life span... it may not be to blame for a console's lack of success, but it certainly wouldn't help the situation.
They need to release games that would specifically appeal to early adopters in order to see more reasonable success at launch, and only release other titles when/if the console becomes better established in the wider market.
The biggest problem Nintendo has is Nintendo fans. Those of us who buy Nintendo consoles and handhelds don't buy third party games in enough numbers to justify making them. That's the bottom line. If you want third party games, you have to buy third party games on your Nintendo device.
Have a look at the wikipedia page for the best selling games on Wii, Wii U and 3DS, if you need proof. Other than a few titles like Just Dance third party games just don't sell well, which is why Just Dance gets multiple releases but EA doesn't port the latest Madden or FIFA
@Tempestryke Sorry for the delayed response...just finished moving cross country. Thank you.
@Stargazer
ummm... like I said: Unless you've got a dev kit and are willing to be vetted as a source, keep your snark to yourself please. You don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not a fanboy, though I do consider Nintendo apologetics a favorite hobby. I prefer a Sony-led industry when it comes down to it. But enough about me, let's talk about your development kit. How many bits are the graphics, ya know, officially?
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