As many of you are no doubt aware, SEGA made two major announcements during its Sonic anniversary bash that gave a lot of insight into the near future of the Blue Blur. Sonic Mania appears – for all intents and purposes – to be the sequel to Sonic & Knuckles that many have been asking SEGA to make for years, which also 'remixes' stages and areas from other 16-bit era entries. Additionally, there's a new 3D Sonic - confirmed for NX - that appears to be following in the footsteps of Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations, two of the most well-received 3D games in recent times. It's telling that SEGA has apparently chosen to go with a very back-to-basics approach to the new Sonic games, and it makes sense in many ways.
Ever since his glory days in the Genesis era, Sonic has been consistently bouncing between peaks and valleys. The constant experimentation with the 3D games has shown that the developers have struggled to find that magic formula to transition the 2D action to an additional plane, which has understandably led to mixed results. Some ideas have been better than others, but you know that something isn't right when the company delists certain games for fear of damaging the brand. Sonic Colors and Generations seemed to be steps in the right direction, but then the company backtracked a bit with the arguably middling Sonic Lost World and, well, that other Wii U game.
As for the 2D games, they seem to have fared better than their 3D equivalents, yet haven't quite hit the heights of their predecessors. Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush managed to provide speedy platforming experiences that did an excellent job of modernizing elements of the old games, but they also inevitably absorbed some of the more divisive elements of the 3D games. The physics were changed, new gameplay elements like boost gauges and powerups were added, and they became less focused on what made the originals so popular.
Especially in light of the most recent Sonic games, it seems that SEGA finally got the idea to go back to try and recreate some of the past successes. The original Sonic games are seldom listed as the worst games in the series, and for good reason, so Sonic Mania (produced in in collaboration with 'indies') directly mimics the classic 2D gameplay style; sadly that title isn't currently pegged for any Nintendo systems. Sonic Colors and Generations were two of the most well-received 3D Sonic games, and SEGA was keen to emphasize that it's the same Sonic Team that produced those titles working on the new 'Project Sonic' entry.
Initially, it comes off as a desperate attempt to put Sonic back in the limelight, but it really makes sense once one thinks about what SEGA's trying to attempt. The games that inspired these upcoming Sonic games represented peaks for the series; so if they aren't broken, why fix them? If the 2D games are constantly being compared to the original games, why not make a game that just focuses on that style of gameplay? If Colors and Generations were better received than many of the 3D games that came before and after them, why not try to improve on what they started? Sonic Team already has the beginnings of a winning formula for the 'hog, they just need to focus on refining it.
Of course, that's not to say that blatantly relying on nostalgia is the sole way forward. Inevitably, this could lead to stagnation, but SEGA doesn't necessarily need to reinvent the wheel each time. Look at how Nintendo has carefully evolved Mario over the years. Incremental changes were instituted over time that gradually changed the way the games were played, but the spirit of them was never lost. Super Mario 3D World and Super Mario 64 are quite different games in terms of style, but they both stem from the same platforming foundation. If Sonic Team can stick with a gameplay style they feel has potential, it can be shaped and tempered over multiple subsequent releases.
It'll be interesting to see how these new Sonic projects end up being received. At the risk of falling into the infamous "Sonic Cycle" it seems that Sonic Team finally understands what fans want, and is actively working to deliver on that. Only time will tell if this works out for them in the end, but if nothing else, at least Sonic's future looks a little less depressing than it did before the new games were announced.
Comments 73
Exactly! I think Sonic Lost World was terrible all around, and that they should never ever go back to that formula again. Generations had lots of potential and ended up a great game. I loved how you were rewarded with constant breakneck speeds and exciting shortcuts and alternate paths. Something that Lost World got seriously wrong.
Sonic is a great property. My kids love him... from the cartoons. They have never been able to get into his games. Honestly, that's partly because of me because I haven't either. I'd love for this attempt to work and I think the strategy is pretty sound, honestly.
Big news for me is the NX factor. Another third party on what seems very likely to be a Nintendo console on par with XB1/PS4. I hope we see more.
@memoryman3 Was it terrible all around? I though the controls were very clunky and not fun, but the basic idea seemed good to me.
@Dakt "If it's Generations again (which it looks like it might be, given the anniversary and Classic Sonic) then I'm not interested."
If I may ask, what didn't you like about Sonic Generations? I've played that game and it was amazing but I am interested to see why you didn't like it.
Generations 2 is a good, safe bet. It's one of the best 'modern' Sonic games - and it's giving Modern Sonic fans what they want. Honestly I don't see how anyone could be upset by these announcements.
Classic fans are finally getting a continuation from S3&K
Modern fans are getting a continuation of Generations/Colours
Hats of to SEGA, for once. Only bummer is no Mania for 3DS - but they didn't bother putting any of Christian Whitehead's games on 3DS, so it's probably too much effort for them. (I'm fairly sure this game's running on the Retro Engine from Whitehead's S1, S2 & CD remasters)
Really looking forward to these games!
@aaronsullivan More Sonic for the kids, Sonic Dimensions (well I have to call it something now, don't I?) Due out Nov 18. I'm sure they'll get into that one now that DI is no more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgqMlOMvQNY
I think it's the perfect approach. Sonic Mania keeps people like me, who grew up on the original games, happy. The 2017 game keeps those who grew up with the 3D games happy. Hopefully they don't screw any of it up.
@aaronsullivan Sonic Lost World was not perfect by any means but it was far from what I would label as horrible too. I quite enjoyed it and felt that it was a worthy entry in the series to the point that I am actually wanting to play it again despite already 100 percenting it, and as far as I can remember I don't recall any control issues excluding the snowball section. Now that one is a real pain if you are shooting for all of the red rings. Overall I don't regret my purchase one bit.
@rjejr Don't tempt me! I don't know why but Dimensions doesn't tempt me too much. The LEGO games I like to spread far apart because they are so similar and having it be a mainstay on the game screen just doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather the kids mess with real LEGOs I guess? I don't know, it is a bit irrational. Subconsciously, it's probably more about diving into another toys 2 life thing. It's sort of a relief that DI is cancelled because I really like Amiibo and I don't see that collecting stopping. Especially with the big NX Zelda release coming and — I'm hoping — a new approach to other Nintendo mainstays like Mario and my biggest weakness: Metroid. That feels like a lot of amiibo in my future.
Xmas is coming though. lol.
It is hard to tell from the video of Sonic Mania but if they have finally gotten the physics right for a new 2D Sonic game then I may actually get this game. That is my main pet peeve with Episode 4 and is why I never bought it.
For the 20th anniversary, we got Sonic Generations and Sonic 4 (kinda). For the 25th anniversary, we basically get Sonic Generations 2 and Sonic 5. That said, they don't look bad, and I'm very much looking forward to them!
P.S. Plus, the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series is finally ending the arc its been on for 3 years (since Mega Man and Sonic: Worlds Collide). I can't wait to see what will happen for the 25th anniversary for the comics!
I have 0 interest in Sonic Mania, but I've never held a high regard for the hedgehog, I like it when they try and move the gameplay forward, but Sonic team seems to have 0 focus in that area, and usually produces substandard fare, I have little hope for this new 3D game, but I'm at least curious.
If there is no chao garden then no deal.
I'm glad both Classic and Modern fans have something to look forward to. From the trailer, my guess is that 2017 will most likely be a combination of Colors and Generations, and that is most certainly not a bad thing!
@aaronsullivan "Xmas is coming though. lol."
But that's the thing now isn't it? As parents of kids we have to get them something for Christmas. I guess you can survive on Skylanders but my kids are done. They've seen that new "build them" gimmick in Spore and played it to death. And as far as I've been able to find out - and I've looked - no new Lego games for Christmas. Which is insane b/c it seems like over the past 2 years we've had Batman 2 and 3, Jurassic World, Marvel, Avengers, Hobbit, SW3. But there isn't so much as a rumour for a new one.
And Wii U is only getting 1 game this holiday, Paper Mario Color Splash. So even if I didn't want a PS4 I'd have to buy 1 ust because. Though my oldest does want a NES Mini, so or $60 that kind of takes care of him.
And amiibo? They still need a game. Though the MH ones look nice, none of us play those.
So good luck avoiding Lego D while shopping for the holidays.
Its interesting how Mario in 2D or 3D is essentially the same demographic, but Sonic in 2D or 3D are completely different.
@Dpishere With the sale I'm tempted to give Sonic Lost World a try, but I did not like the way it controlled in the demo. Thanks for the review.
One game stars Classic Sonic, and the other features him alongside Modern. Seems Sega is finally realizing the fans' love for that classic design.
Yup, Sega does have the right idea for these Sonic games. The question is, can they pull it off though? Guess we will wait and see, Sonic Mania does look promising.
A lot of people are excited for this new 3D Sonic. Why? Did i miss a gameplay trailer that was secretly released?
I can't blame them for branching out and trying new elements over the years. The original Sonic was simple, but inventive at the time. Updating that concept to modern standards can go in many different directions. It seems like everyone has their own favorite Sonic game that they want to see continued (or at least parts of it). It appears the goal this time around is to finally combine those favorite elements. This isn't another contribution to the Sonic cycle simply because it's what fans have said they want.
I think it's not that a 3D-Sonic could not be great: Even some of the less accomplished 3D-installments carried that potential. It's more that SEGA tends to release games that are, at best, a bit too rough around the edges. Even Mario & Sonic is an example for that: the quick attempt to cash in, on a regular basis, on a popular franchise. (That's the opposite of what Nintendo is doing with at least the main series titles of its most popular franchises.) And then it's decided that a new title needs to be released, because it needs to generate profits and will do so on the licence alone, though it's far from accomplished. Instead a huge proportion of the budged is used for some eye-catching FMVs. I don't know if that's really only a problem on the management side or if SEGA directors and producers themselves have the tendency to be satisfied with subpar results / overly confident with respect to what they achieved. I'm confident that with budgets used more wisely and considerably longer production cycles, several of the 3D Sonic games could have met critical acclaim in the way AAA-Nintendo titles have. SEGA was known for a certain sloppiness even as they were a major player in the industry, but combined with a strategy that's hunting for short-term profits, it's particularly Sonic (as cash cow number one) who has to suffer from this. I'm therefore not sure if looking for inspiration in the series' past will truly improve the quality of the games. Perhaps it's just another attempt of cashing in quick and easy on fans' nostalgia as well as of exploiting the more general wave of retro-hype of recent times.
Sonic Generations: "We want something fresh!"
Lost World: "Bleh, go back to classic Sonic!"
Mania/2017: "Wow, SEGA is playing it safe. I wanted to see something new."
@Dakt I realize this varies a lot for people, but I personally didn't care too much for Sonic Lost World. It's story was uninteresting, the Deadly Six were uninspired inclusions to Sonic's canon, and the humor was poor. As another uncommon opinion, I did not like Lost World's visuals all that much. It reminded me of Sonic Heroes' style, which felt overly saturated and bright. The colorful but defined visuals of Sonic Unleashed, Colors, and Generations are more my cup of tea.
All of this would be forgivable if Sonic Lost World had good, fully fleshed out mechanics, but it doesn't. Having a kick attack felt unnecesarry. Parkouring was either always too responsive or unresponsive. Needing a run button felt alien. The whole fish-eye, planetary body-like levels was disorienting and only reminded me that I want open space in a Sonic game to let me just run. I don't hate the game, and I don't even think it's a bad game. I just think it's flawed. It lacks a fluidity achieved with its prodecessors.
I personally really liked the gameplay style of Unleashed, Colors, and Generations. Boosting was fun and responding to upcoming obstacles felt smooth. It wasn't perfect, but if Sonic Team was able to combine that gameplay and make it easier to control Sonic free-roaming (as in, without boosting) like in Adventure, Adventure 2, and Lost World (without any of those games' awakened camera angles), this could be potentially very good. I just don't know at this point.
Sure, they advertise the "makers of Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations", but keep in mind there are two slightly different divisions under the name "Sonic Team", and the specific division that made Colors did not also make Generations. The team that made Colors (called "Team B") also made Lost World and Sonic Runners. "Team A" - the team making this 2017 title - did make Generations, as well as Unleashed. From what I know of Sonic Team-made projects, the new installment will probably be derivative of the mechanics of the last game, regardless of the division who made it (in other words, Sonic Lost World). I just hope they've used the long development time to fix the problems I mentioned.
@Moon From what I heard Renegade Kid has offered to port Mania to 3DS
@Wolfgabe yeah, they have offered. I doubt Sega will give them a response, though. RK have offered to port other games in the past too, fairly sure they wanted to do Mighty No. 9 at some point.
I feel like SEGA really got their act together on this one, as they are aiming to please both Classic and Modern Sonic fans not with one game (Sonic Generations) but with two seperate ones. I think 2017 will be a great year for the Blue Blur.
Yes! This looks amazing! I've always wanted to play generations, but I only have a wii U and I don't have Gaming PC. Now I only have to wait for 2017...
Never cared for any of the Sonic games and I honestly don't understand the appeal of the franchise.
@the101 Actually, the whole "Team A Team B" thing has been debunked. Turns out that saying comes from a fan pretending to be a Sega Insider from 2009. Turns out that Sonic Team is one team where people can be assigned to different projects if need be, like Colors and Generations, but there isn't a distinct "Team A" and "Team B".
The indies that are working on Sonic Mania (which could very well release on the NX, even if it's a port after the main release) aren't just any indies. They've got Christian Whitehead and Headcannon, who worked on the classic remasters and the fangame/ROM hack Sonic Megamix; they've got PadogaWest Games, which was formed by people who worked on Sonic 2 HD; and the composer is Tee Lopes, who did the soundtracks for Sonic 2 HD and Major Magnet. Tee Lopes happens to be my favorite Sonic music remixer.
So put simply, you probably couldn't find better indies to make a game like Sonic Mania.
@KingofSaiyanZ I'm sure that's what SEGA are thinking too...I think if it is a bust then they should just accept that Sonic perhaps shouldn't be a major franchise for them.
I think it's safe to assume that Sonic Mania will be at least a bit alright. The 2017 title, on the other hand...I'll wait before I judge that one. I'm a bit hopeful, but at the same time, I'm looking at some of the last recent Sonic games, and...yeah.
Sounds awesome!
@Dakt Lost world was horrible. Generations was great.
Okay. Just remember: no matter what happens, at least one of these two games will probably be good. Sonic Mania, while looking a bit more like a fangame, still is something that I'm going to be getting, and looks great. As for Sonic '17, hopefully it's good. We still haven't seen gameplay, so...who knows.
Okay Sega. I love you. Please listen to us this time... Do not rush these games. If they deadline looms ever closer and the game isn't done, delay it. If something isn't working or isn't fun, have a meeting and discuss how it can be improved. Sonic does not need to be something so radically different every iteration. Mario is your ally now, take some lessons from him. A little bit of time and effort will bring the hedgehog back to form and keep him there. Just because Sonic is fast doesn't mean the devs have to be.
PLEASE don't screw this up. I lost a lot of hope after Rise of Lyric. I want challenge, not difficulty. A sense of momentum not broken by wonky mechanics and needing to use every button on the controller. Sonic games should be cleverly simple yet challenging. There is a fine line between challenge and difficulty. I really hope PS17' isn't another S06' because that would literally break my heart.
@Warruz Not quite. There's a definite schism in the Mario fanbase between the fans of the classic style 2D platformers and the Mario 64/Sunshine style 3D platformers. Nintendo simply decided to ignore the latter fanbase and make a 3D game for the former.
I was disapointed with the Mania announcement, got excited when they said that it wasn't project 2017, and then they said it wasn't a sequel, but then it was just sonic generations again. And by the looks of it, it'll likely take the gameplay of generations but without the nostalgic levels. Which unfortunately was the only thing I liked about generations. Unfortunately, Sonic Mania looks better than 2k17 to me. And unfortunately, the sonic advance trilogy looks better than mania to me. Maybe if they announce more characters for either game I'll be interested, or maybe if they somehow get Jaleel White to play classic sonic it could at least be funny.
Sonic '17 looks interesting. Why was the trailer so dramatic and realistic? Reminded me of '06 for some reason... xD Sonic Mania looks great. It looks a little bit like a fan game... but not in a bad way.
BTW, it's nice to have a new announcement from SEGA that isn't an announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement!
@rjejr NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...
@TwilightOniAngel
No gameplay for the new 3D title. I think it's the combination of Sonic Team having a much better pedigree than the garbage other studios have been churning out so that's exciting to hear, and it's seeing the immaculate trailer of the 2D game that really has people betting on Sega getting it right this time.
Finally, I think it's the fact the 3D trailer showed both modern and classic Sonic which indicates more of a Generations style approach. Which, if you ask me, Generations was a pretty decent game. Not great, but this one could be if they build on it and refine it.
Mostly though I think it's that 2D Mania trailer. They nailed it with that one.
Mania looks great, and while Sonic Team deserve the benefit of the doubt after Colors and Generations... I just don't understand why they keep trying to put Sonic in these worlds that are definitely not the world he was in during the 16-bit era.
I hope this new modern Sonic game can make boosting less of a press-to-win button. Side-stepping was a nice to separate it out, but boosting often lead me to more "quick-time" responses than actually mastering the levels most of the time. Same goes for the sharp turn maneuvers. I loved Generations...but adding some more physics to the boosting, similar to the spin-dash, would be a step in the right direction. Maybe let Sonic use use that tether in the Boom series to fling off enemies really fast? I loved swinging around in the Attack on Titan Tribute Game and I think that fast gameplay would add a similar element of high speed controllable but extreme gameplay!
I loved Adventure 1 and 2 because of how in control I felt. I felt like I was controlling Sonic, not the other way around. Generations did have a lot of multiple paths too which I enjoyed. If Sonic Team can par the 2 together, I would love it!
I honestly enjoyed the Sonic Advance games more than the originals in some ways. Too bad NA decided to never release them for the VC. I loved the old, classic era and the Adventure era, but around Sonic Unleashed or Colors things started going in a different direction or something. The plots got way more kiddie as well, which usually does not bother me, but...not real sure how to explain it.
When I see Sonic Mania, my brain just screams 3DS. When the games are in 2D, their no-show on Nintendo consoles seems almost inexcusable. That said, a Sonic CD 3D or a Sonic Advance Trilogy 3D is all I ask.
You know what would be even better? A Sonic the Hedgehog Maker, then you can create your own theme levels and world from any 2D Sonic games like Sonic 1, 2, 3, 4, CD, Knuckles, Chaotix, Advance 1, Advance 2, Advance 3, Pocket Adventure, Rush, Rush Adventure, Unleashed, Colors, and Generations and share it with the world. Too bad it won't happen, would had made this 25th anniversary one of the best.
@memoryman3 Lost World is actually more rewarding if you actually know how the parkour system works but it feels like crap if you dont so I can see why some people find Generations better. Though I really believe Lost World is an uncut diamond and just needed a lot of refinement to make it easier for other people
@Inkling That's pretty much this whole site with anything Nintendo-related as well as this Sonic stuff
@Snow-Dust I think Lost World's problem was primarily a matter of level design. There weren't a lot of speed based levels and there was a ton of blocky platforming and puzzles. I think Lost World's gameplay does have potential, parkour could be a useful tool in blending speed and platforming, but they didn't really do that in Lost World. In general that's a problem that they really need to solve in 3D Sonic, because they've never really gotten that balance right and had to alternate between the two styles in the level design.
@Bolt_Strike True, it was pretty inconsistent. You can fly through some stages real quick and then need to have the most zen patience for the next, it can be overwhelming at times. Don't forget there are literally 3 different play style which is traditional 2D, the modern 3D and also a temple runner like gameplay.
So many (good) ideas but just none perfected, I think Lost World is the Sonic's key to 3D if they further refine the gameplay
Nah. Imagine a really polished Sonic Adventure-style 3D platformer. I'd get excited over that. These just seem kind of lazy.
Sonic Lost World is one of the most divisive games in sonic history, just like the new Star Fox. Famitsu loves the game, and so does some regions in IGN (e.g., Italy). In contrast, others do not like it (e.g., Nintendolife). It is mainly due to its deep learning curve and difficulty. Gamers who like it loves it and others hate it.
I actually think that the game is much better than Sonic Adventure, because the former has much tighter control of sonic. In fact, I agree that the control violates common sense a bit (after running fast, the momentum suddenly losts while jumping). But, I don't think that Sega can make the next sonic game using the template of Sonic Lost World, although it may borrow some elements from it.
I used to be so excited for new sonic games. I played all the genesis ones over and again and I lived in the Dreamcast sonic adventire for an entire summer. But these two new hales just made me say meh, I'll need to see more and hope for a demo before I buy.
@NCChris i really like sonic generations but only the first six levels. Then it gets into bad level design for me. The new speed highway is amazing! Same with the chaos fight even though you weren't in super form.
I think SEGA are on the right path with making both new 2D and 3D Sonic games. Mania looks good and should please fans of the classic Sonic games. Although I think Fire and Ice looks like a better 2D game. The new Sonic 3D game looks like Generations 2 based on the trailer with classic and modern Sonic, but who can say without seeing some gameplay. Generations was a fairly solid Sonic game so if they can improve on that formula it should be good.
From what I can tell Generations was fairly well-received as was Colors. Color me cautiously optimistic.
Sonic Mania, however, has the hype train barreling down the track at full bore. With classic gameplay, still classic but somewhat smoothed out visuals (from what I can tell the sprites have a higher pixel count, and more inbetweens), and that new drop-dash mechanic that compliments such a game so perfectly I'm surprised nobody thought of it sooner it just looks amazing. Count me in.
@aaronsullivan all it took was a little practice with Angling yourself. In modern Sonic games you have to understand the level and your controls in order to make it through. The same can be said with Lost World
@Dr_Corndog I don't love the classic design. I just excuse it as something that fits
@MussakkuLaden look at SEGAs catalog before saying their games are rough around the edges just because of one game in the Sonic franchise no less
@Moon Sega is a more community-oriented kind of Company For Better or For Worse. So there is a chance that they will listen. They got Indies to make Sonic Mania for crying out loud.
@pek727 the gameplay is fast and Twitchy and rewards understanding of the level layout. Mastering the levels gives off a stylish and satisfying feeling. And what Advanced players like about the franchise is that the level layout can also be exploited to make some pretty satisfying levels speed runs.
@Peach64 because these World bring out proper characters. Look at the Deadly Six and see if you can take them seriously. You can't.
Now look at Blaze the Cat and see if you can take her issues seriously. You most likely will
@SamirMalik Granted there's a chance, but I don't see it happening. Perhaps if the fans are vocal enough about wanting a 3DS version - then they might listen.
I feel like I've heard this kind of positive Sonic vibe around the time of every announcement. I'm pretty sure they just make any old crap and label it with Sonic.
The 2D Sonic is looking great but we don't know anything about the 3D game and the trailer doesn't tell much, so it's too early to know if it's going to be right or not.
Am I the only one who didn't like Colors?
I'm actually more excited for Sonic 17 since I grew up with 3D Sonic. (and later 2D)
@SeaSalty I was hyped back in the day but honestly Sonic Colours has not stood the test of time. I replayed it recently and the level design is far from great. I really enjoyed The Secret Rings when it launched but, again, it doesn't feel great any more. Now I don't have a favourite 3D Sonic but I love the Mega Drive ones (Sonic 1 and 2 for Master System are not bad either). Hopefully the two new games are great because I have some addiction to Sonic like the rest of forgiving Sonic fans out there.
@JaxonH I hope were getting Sonic Generations 2,cause i actually liked that one. Personally i rather have a Sonic Colors 2,but beggars can't be choosers i guess.
Must.... resist.... hype..........failing x_x
Bring back Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg!!! Lol... A while back, when it was announced that Sega is working on new Sonic games, I sighed. And I thought that no matter what they announce, I'll probably be indifferent about it. Now I'm casously optimistic about this.
I was surprised to read that Generations was more well received than Adventure. Then I thought about my second play through of Adventure a couple of years ago. The expolartion with Knuckles was so fun back in the day. Now I'm like it's annoying and messes with the flow of the game. And the fishing!!!! That game definitely could have used more levels like early in the game with the beach and the whale.
@samuelvictor Yes, the Game Gear versions don't even exist to me. The Master System versions have better sound, visuals, resolution, field of view, controls... Too bad that they have not been released on the eShop (only on Virtual Console of Wii).
@Uncensored Fair enough, thanks for sharing your opinion.
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