Nintendo, for reasons covered frequently on previous occasions, can no longer rely on sheer volume of releases for 3DS and, in particular, Wii U. What it can do is share its passion for its hardware through its own game releases and how it delivers them to fans. In its 3rd March Nintendo Direct broadcast the company did just that.
When we asked you for your views on the Direct - after the dust had settled - the overall perspective was positive; at the time of writing 46% had said "it was really good, well done Nintendo", with a comfortable majority choosing generally positive choices. Having established beforehand that the presentation was all about Wii U and 3DS in Spring and Summer Nintendo largely stuck to that remit. It only broke the rule to briefly show Paper Mario: Color Splash on Wii U, which is due later this year - NX and mobile were, as promised, left out of proceedings barring a very brief Miitomo mention.
That was an entirely logical and sensible move, too. Though fans have an insatiable appetite for information Nintendo still needs to structure its reveals for the broader market - Nintendo Direct broadcasts are for fans, not always the mainstream, so the next generation of hardware will wait for the biggest stages (possibly E3). Likewise Nintendo wouldn't have wanted to bury additional details for other mobile projects in a broader presentation, as it'll want to generate buzz for those ventures in their own right.
Considering those circumstances and the limited cards Nintendo had in its hand, the Direct did a rather good job. Productions values were high, there were winks and nods to that big N style that's much beloved, and there were some blockbuster games included. With some projects coming a little sooner than expected, there's a relatively steady flow of exciting major releases in the Spring and Summer months.
When summarising the events of the broadcast we were reminded, once again, of how Nintendo's priorities are - unsurprisingly - stacked to its most popular current-generation hardware. While Wii U sales momentum has improved in the past year as the 3DS sees its sales decline, the portable family is still the bankable platform. It has a far higher userbase and still outsells the home console, after all.
That showed in terms of the volume of announcements and games on the way to each system. The Wii U line-up is still, ultimately, rather thin, but there are high-profile titles to help keep fans reasonably happy. The Paper Mario trailer was clearly designed to reassure, yet with The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD now in stores and Pokkén Tournament around the corner, much focus will fall on Star Fox Zero to be a season-holding release in April. Yes, there's the free-to-play Lost Reavers in April and Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE in June, but with the best will in the world those latter two can only be regarded as intriguing but niche titles.
It has been the case since early 2015, effectively, that the Wii U line-up relies on quality over quantity, with a few of those titles - perhaps all, the jury's still out - promising just that. It was no surprise to see segments devoted to Splatoon and Super Mario Maker, either, though observed in isolation the details for those games were extremely minor - gameplay tweaks and simple updates in Splatoon, and a handful of new items in Super Mario Maker.
In the cold light of day the Wii U maintains its status as a system of quality that's quietly seeing out time - there's still a new Zelda title to come, of course, but with each passing month with no new footage the odds of it mimicking the cross-generation life of Twilight Princess increase.
It was on 3DS, ultimately, where Nintendo made its clearest statement of intent. The volume of announcements, and the nature of the games, showed that the company plans to walk the walk after all the talk of giving the 3DS life beyond 2016. There's an inevitability that it - and the New 3DS - are heading towards lowered pricing and a budget machine status, yet Nintendo clearly feels that the right game line-up can ensure continued and steady sales beyond the arrival of NX and smart device apps.
The 3DS games shown certainly catered to various demographics. There's platforming (Kirby: Planet Robobot), titles targeting a slightly more 'casual' or relaxed demographic (Disney Art Academy) and releases to satisfy dedicated and experienced gamers (such as SNES VC games and Capcom's Monster Hunter Generations). Both sides of the Atlantic are also playing catch-up in localised RPGs - this writer can't wait for Fire Emblem Fates in Europe - and some key eShop titles were also shown off, especially in North America.
Most intriguing was the charm offensive launched for Metroid Prime: Federation Force, which was much maligned during E3 2015 and is somewhat surprisingly due in 'late Spring'. It was a spirited defence of its place in the franchise, along with claims that it was many years in the making and - as a result - far more than a cheap and rapid spin-off. It seemed to sort of work; we could sense a slight lessening of disgruntlement towards it in the live chat at the time, and it didn't fare too badly in our community polls. It's still not flavour of the month, but there seems to be an increased willingness to give the Next Level Games-developed release a chance.
For the 3DS there's certainly a sense that significant and no doubt increasingly efficient and affordable development for the platform is laying the groundwork for a sustained library. The hardware is of a certain age that developers familiar with it can surely turn projects around relatively economically, and let's not forget it'll have a significant push in the Holiday season with Pokémon Sun and Moon. While its days as a big-selling industry leader are fading rapidly, the 3DS may have some legs well into 2017.
There may be one or two smaller Direct broadcasts prior to E3, or perhaps Nintendo will forego that approach to focus on smaller reveals and game detail announcements via social media and YouTube. Either way, as a placeholder major presentation to keep the current generation in business it arguably did its job well. The 3DS was the bigger beneficiary, but by pushing through with the likes of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE and the high profile Star Fox Zero, Nintendo has shown its commitment to keeping the home console ticking into the Summer months.
In the circumstances the Direct delivered as much as we could realistically expect.
Comments 88
To me, the Direct shows a shows a shift in focus. While there are plenty of announcements to be had, the offerings from Nintendo specifically, look to be on the smaller, budget friendlier size. Which in my opinion further cements the NX coming out this year idea.
I definitly agree the direct did a perfect job in "keep the current generation in business", Nintendo wanted to show us that there are games that will keep us busy in the next months, and that's definitly the case.
I'm already having an hard time this month as there are more upcoming titles tempting me than time I have to play them, but now the problem has spread till June even XD
"In the cold light of day the Wii U maintains its status as a system of quality that's quietly seeing out time - there's still a new Zelda title to come, of course, but with each passing month with no new footage the odds of it mimicking the cross-generation life of Twilight Princess increase."
I realize this is a small part of the article, but how do the chances increase? As if tomorrow, somehow, it has a better chance of going to NX, as well as, Wii U. I doubt it will remain Wii U-only, but still, to say that the chances increase by the month is just plain inaccurate.
"Maybe one or two smaller direct before E3", be lucky if yoy have one, Nintendo is taking longer to make directs, maybe we will have an game direct, like an star fox or metroid one.
Remember how since E3 2015 and the announcement of NX being developed, all we heard from the gaming media and always-negatives was:
"There's no new games coming for Wii U...the Wii U is dead, Zelda and Starfox will be the last games coming for Wii U and those will probably be on NX."
I kept saying we'll have to just wait and see, Nintendo doesn't always talk about games a year or more in advance...they doubled down and insisted anyone who didn't join their Wii U death cult was a "delusional fanboy".
I'm not expecting an apology or Mea culpa from those kind of people, they only live for negativity.
There is an extremely high chance all will be revealed for Zelda U/NX at E3, and if there is any news about it before then, it will be very small. Only 3 more months to go!
@Action51 Hah, I know! Now with Pokkén, SF Guard, TMS#FE, Paper Mario and TPHD alongside of Zelda U and Star Fox, it's only getting better every time.
Good article, which is probably a lot easier to do when there is a good Direct.
My big question though is how this relates to NX release timing?
Nintneod is releasing both Mario and Sonic at the Rio Olympics and Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE - on the same day - Jun 24. Now I know Nintendo likes to release stuff in chunks on 3DS and Wii U, but 2 Wii U games on the same day? And we already have 2 Wii U Games in March - TP HD and Pokken tournament. And Starfox Zero and Guard on April 22. They may be related, but they are 2 games, sold separately on the eShop for $49.99 and $14.99 respectively. $5 off if you buy both.
http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/rE7aH-wjfkkHT8_OFUxYFs6ZX7aakaSw
Does cramming all these Wii U games in 4 months guarantee NX in the later half of 2016, or is it just a coincidence all these games are coming out so close together and NX is still a year away, b/c we still have Paper Mario Color Splash and Zelda U in late 2016?
I've been in the "late 2016" camp since last year, but I know there are still a few who say NX in 2017. I'm wondering what peopel think now?
Oh, one thing missing from the ND which I find surprising - no mention of the new $19.99 Selects games on Wii U. If they really wanted to promote Wii U why not start w/ those 4 games?
"The Latest Nintendo Direct Showed a Renewed - Albeit Temporary - Focus on the Current Generation" this is potentially a very inaccurate headline imo.
For starters, all Nintendo (officially) have done is say they will make another piece of gaming dedicated hardware code named 'NX'. Any thoughts on what they are actually doing or 'focusing on' is pure speculation and rumors at this stage.
Furthermore, you can't call something temporary unless you know the point it starts or stops happening, which we don't at this point. For all we know, nx is a separate platform to run alongside current gen, to be released in 2018 and E3 will bring 10 new Wii u/ 3ds games!?!
Now I'm not daft enough to believe that example and NX IS looming but rumors are being passed around like facts allot at the moment and ungrounded speculation is treated like facts by the media.....
Rant over, all this nx stuff is getting to me I guess?
The whole "quality over quantity" thing is a very accurate description of the Wii U's library. Last year, there were only 3-4 big releases on the Wii U, but they were awesome. I consider Splatoon, Mario Maker, and Xenoblade as top Wii U games, alongside major titles like Mario Kart 8, 3D World, and SSBU, which I consider among the top games of all time. I'd even say Splatoon is the best new Nintendo IP since Pikmin.
@Action51
To be fair, almost no games have been announced for the Wii U since E3 2015. Pokken Tournament was confirmed a little later, but was already known of. Other than that, there was the Twilight Princess remake, and Paper Mario. I was never part of the "Wii U death cult", and I'm not part of it now (I'm looking forward to what's coming this year), but the fact is, there has only been one new Nintendo game announced for the Wii U in the last 7 months, and it was announced this week. Even at E3 2015, few games were announced for the Wii U, and that includes Mario Tennis and Amiibo Festival. The Wii U definitely seems to be slowing down, and it was never going that fast.
"the details for those games were extremely minor - gameplay tweaks and simple updates in Splatoon"
@ThomasBW84: I absolutely disagree on that point, the changes in Splatoon are not minor or simple, but rather game-changing! The ability changes (explained in detail herealone make it a completely new game. Splatfests are also undergoing a huge change. The other parts of the updates are simple tweaks, I agree.
@ULTRA-64: You're right, there are a lot of rumors that are not based on any facts, but everyone seems to treat them as if they were facts. I dislike this whole situation, so my only advice would be to stay calm and hope that everything will be cleared up eventually.
Did it? It showed renewed focus on 3DS, let's be precise. If it wasn't for the sub-headline I'd be wondering what NL watched. The only Wii U game we didn't know about 6 months ago is Paper Mario.
Tokyo Mirage Sessions! My main game after Fire Emblem Fates and Bravely Second. That said I won't buy if they release as digital only, I simply can't accept that, and that was the reason that I skipped Fatal Frame.
I'm super excited for Metroid Prime Federation Force! The Gameplay looks fantastic!
I'm excited to play Snes games on New Nintendo 3DS xl can not wait to buy them. Still waiting for square enix games.
Man oh man, E3 is going to be EPIC!
Nintendo are in a tricky balancing act at the moment- alrhough they have to give Wii U owners enough to keep us happy, they also have to make sure there is a solid NX lineup coming as well. After the Wii U was released with Nintendoland, NSMBU, an exclusive Ubisoft game that didn't really fit Nintendo's identity, and a bunch of solid-but-late to the party ports, the NX really needs 5 strong Nintendo games to be ready before Christmas- say Zelda U, Pikmin 4, Smash Updated, a party/system show off game, and something with Mario in it. That would really make the system an appealing alternative to PSVR to those who want a bit of fun for Christmas.
@TrueWiiMaster
I think the issue is that 'quality over quantity' works until a certain level. The Wii U has taken that to an extreme. 3-4 major releases per year is minuscule. Certainly isn't enough to keep you through the year, no matter how good these games are.
@TrueWiiMaster Whether or not the Wii U has a quality lineup is debatable, I sure don't see any quality in the mess of similar looking platformers (NSMBU, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze being the biggest offenders) and the lack of large scale, exploration based games (Zelda not coming out until the tail end of the generation, the lack of any collectathon games, and no one wanting to make Metroid Prime 4 really kills this lineup IMO).
Owned every system nintend0 ever made, and i'm losing my nintendo focus, slowly but surely.
You know what will happen, the nx will be on par with ps4 and within a year there will be a ps5! wich got 3 times the power of an nx.
Nice strategy nintendo. waiting for the new zelda game for like 3-4 years now, nah you cant dis me with cheap budget re_re_releases.
Direct was decent. Wish and hope more is coming to Wii U.
Bring on E3!!!!!!!!!
For me, it feels like they decided to give a second wind to current consoles because launch software and hardware for NX is not ready.
They wouldn't release Monster Hunter and Pokemon, two of the heavy hitters, on platforms due to be replaced if the NX was set to release this year or the next. They'd save them as launch titles.
For example, we know Pikmin 4 exists due to Miyamoto himself confirming it. But where is it? Most likely getting tweaks for a next year release.
For me, this direct shows that the NX reveal may be this year but it will most likely release next year, to have a decent software lineup and not repeat the Wii U's first barren months.
@3MonthBeef
Fair enough, though I don't know what kind of games you were expecting from Nintendo if you don't like the kind of games they've been releasing.
@nintykid
I was only referring to last year, not years in general. This year already has 6 games scheduled to release from Nintendo, and 2014 had 7-8. And really, even 4 major games from one developer is pretty good. Sony usually hits closer to 2 or 3. The big difference is 3rd party support. The quantity seen on other systems comes from many developers each making 1-4 major games per year.
@Bolt_Strike
You're confusing quality with variety, and that applies to all systems. The Wii U is lacking in FPS games, for example, but the PS4 is lacking in platformers. As for those platformers you mentioned being "similar-looking", they're actually quite different, in style and in play. NSMBU and Tropical Freeze are both stylized 2D platformers, but that's pretty much where the similarities end. 3D World is a 3D platformer, and one of very few on any platform this gen. All three are excellent, and rank among my top spots for the genre (and that's really saying something, since it's my favorite genre). Also, there are several open world games on the Wii U. Besides the recently-released Xenoblade, Assassin's Creed 3 and 4 are both on the system, along with Darksiders 2 and the two Batman games. LEGO City might fall into that category as well.
@Luna_110
Pokemon Black/White was released on the DS just a few weeks before the 3DS came out in the West. Even in Japan, it was only a few months before the 3DS's launch.
I don't think I'd call it a "renewed" focus. It's more them just getting what's left for the systems out.
On the 3DS, the lineup is great here in NA, but in Japan? It's closer to the Wii U's current NA lineup than the 2013 3DS NA lineup.
Point is, Nintendo's main efforts are on the NX, not on 3DS and Wii U.
@rjejr Before the Direct you asked me which game will get delayed, Star Fox or Zelda.
I think my answer now is neither. The games that I think get delayed are the two Dragon Quest games. DQVII appears to no longer be releasing in Summer, and if that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if DQVIII got pushed back to February/March 2017.
The Direct certainly showed a renewed focus for the 3DS. New titles like Monster Hunter Generations, Rhythm Heaven Megamix, Kirby Planet Robobot, and even Disney Art Academy are all great additions to the 2016 3DS lineup. The announcement of a new 3DS Kirby surprised me the most. I am sure everyone believed that HAL Laboratory had spent the last year and a half working on Smash DLC (and, if rumors are true, a Smash NX poft), but as it turns out they were also working on a Kirby game for 3DS, which was a game that could have easily been a launch/early NX title instead.
Not sure I'd say the same about the Wii U. The only new announcement was Paper Mario Color Splash. Everything else was a confirmation of release dates for games we have known about for many months.
All it showed me was a bunch of games I don't want to play, from low production value and polish like Star Fox and Fire Emblem Atlus, games stripped of their identities like Paper Mario and Metroid Prime, games already out or very close to release like Twilight Princess and Fates, or just plain uninteresting like Card Jockey and Disney Art Academy...
The new Kirby game looks like it may be good, but everything else feels like we are at the end of the ropes for Wii U and 3DS.
All it showed me was a bunch of games I don't want to play, from low production value and polish like Star Fox and Fire Emblem Atlus, games stripped of their identities like Paper Mario and Metroid Prime, games already out or very close to release like Twilight Princess and Fates, or just plain uninteresting like Card Jockey and Disney Art Academy...
The new Kirby game looks like it may be good, but everything else feels like we are at the end of the ropes for Wii U and 3DS.
@rjejr
This feels like a valiant effort to stretch out the releases on Wii U and 3DS until the NX replacements come. Nintendo executives seemed determined to avoid the drought that happened with the Wii from what was said. This seems like the solution playing itself out in some pretty tough circumstances.
I'm reasonably sure we are getting something that is NX this year in the West. I'm not as assured as the author that what was shown seems to lean against it being a handheld. 3DS has always had the better user base and library so having a stronger lineup than Wii U right to the end is to be expected.
Either way, I feel like the current plans, and miitomo and the mobile integration with the new account system and how everything is positioned with amiibo and NX and the transition makes more marketing sense than anything from Nintendo has done previously — at least since the Wii launch and after the mobile/web casual invasion of gaming. Iwata was on the right track but these things take time to move. I'm pretty optomistic with Kimishima taking over and solidfying the strategy.
If half the rumors about NX have substance, Nintendo is getting some strong third party games for launch. Problem is the timing on those becomes very important. (Seems like Wii U suffered from the length between launch prices of AAA games to their deep sale prices getting just short enough to be embarrassing.)
Here's my concern: If Zelda U comes out Holiday 2016 with a promised NX console version early next year... I will most likely buy it for Wii U and NX!
I was very anti-New 3ds when it came out. I have changed my mind and am seriously considering getting one. Mobile Super NES games is almost a dream come true.
I'm wondering when the Talking Point article about all these damn leaks is coming. Something about it causing concern about Nintendo being functional internally, particularly to their shareholders/investors.
We just had yet another leak, this time for My Nintendo Picross: Zelda Twilight Princess HD.
All of these leaks, while exciting for us fans (though it ruins the surprise), make Nintendo look like they're in a state of disarray and dysfunction to others and their shareholders/investors.
All this shows that Nintendo still doesn't get what the "hardcore" gamers want in the West.
This Direct reinforces the image and stigma that Nintendo systems are for kids and "casuals" like all their previous systems.
Nintendo should have made 2016 the year of shooters, M-rated games and AAA Blockbusters (you know the games that cost between $50M USD and $150M+ USD).
All the Western media and Western "hardcore" and real gamers are seeing is nothing but games targeted at "casuals" and kids as Nintendo has done for 31 years in the West.
If Nintendo unveils and launches NX with anything that isn't a shooter, M-rated game, and/or AAA Blockbuster game, the system/platform will lambasted for being a "casuals" and kids system/platform stopping Major Western 3rd parties and the majority of Western gamers from taking it seriously.
I mean this Direct gave me plenty of games to buy for the year, but buying them would have me laughed out of E3 as a "casual" and mocked to no end by Sony and Microsoft owners.
@TrueWiiMaster Variety is part of quality though. If you're just repeating the same things you've done before, then you're failing to entertain people and therefore not providing quality games. And gameplay wise, they are kinda similar and don't really do much that past entries haven't. Mario's been running in place since Galaxy, the games have all been classic style with the same gameplay and conventions. Even the 3D games blur with the NSMB games, the differences between those two series go as far as one being 2D and the other being 3D. As for Tropical Freeze, it's basically DKCR with a couple of gameplay mechanics from the Classic Trilogy added back in (and it's still got some catching up to do), nothing special.
Definitely glad people are looking at Metroid Prime: Federation Force more positively.
@Bolt_Strike Well for one, Tropical Freeze is fantastic if you have not played it. And like have you played Xenoblade Chronicles X? It is worth buying a system for.
@Xenocity Then laugh at them back for being ignorant fools.
@Xenocity You deserve to be laughed at because you give way too much importance at everybody else's opinion and numbers instead of not giving a crap and just play whatever you like. You always seem to speak of "casuals" and "hardcore", but I really don't think you know what it really means. I know you're gonna give me a lecture about how you searched the terms on x or y source, but that is why I don't follow any gaming publications, because I play what I want, regardless of anyone's opinion.
@Bolt_Strike
You could say it's related to the quality of a library overall, but it doesn't have anything to do with individual games. And again, a lack of variety is something that many systems deal with, not just the Wii U. Strangely enough, the games on the Wii U are often the types of games missing on other platforms.
"Mario's been running in place since Galaxy"
You do realize that there has only been one 3D Mario game on consoles since Galaxy 2, right? So it's been running in place for one game? And the melding of 2D and 3D elements in 3D World was what made it unique. Aside from 3D Land, which was a much smaller, portable experience, there's really nothing like it. NSMB is about the same as ever, but that still means highly polished, classic 2D platforming (I've played them all, and NSMBU is easily the best, too).
"As for Tropical Freeze, it's basically DKCR with a couple of gameplay mechanics from the Classic Trilogy added back in (and it's still got some catching up to do), nothing special."
You and I clearly have very different ideas of what's special here. The DKC games are among the best platformers ever, and Tropical Freeze might be the best one yet, with beautiful HD graphics, awesome music, and the gameplay that established Rare as a major developer decades ago (with some new twists, mainly in the form of multiple partner characters). It's on a very short list of games that I wanted to keep playing, even after I beat them.
@TrueWiiMaster
Good point, one developer can only go so far!
@TrueWiiMaster The difference between 3D Land and 3D World stops at number of levels pretty much. 3D World really isn't that much larger in scale. Also, for all of the talk about merging the 2D and 3D games, what is really taken from the 3D games? 3D level design (which is so linear that it barely even matters) and a couple of level gimmicks? 3D Land and 3D World play nothing like the older 3D Mario games, there's no open level design to allow you to wander around and explore (except in a handful of levels), the progression system doesn't allow you to complete whatever levels you want in whatever order you want. The recent 3D Mario games are more 2D gameplay applied to a 3D space than a true hybrid style that mixes 2D and 3D gameplay mechanics. And frankly, I'm sick of seeing the 2D gameplay, it's so repetitive and simplistic that it just feels like the same game over and over again. Tropical Freeze is kind of in the same boat in terms of being simple and repetitive.
@AndrewJ I couldn't agree more. I myself am considering getting a third one, having bought the first less than three months ago. The family that plays together and all that...
@FRANKLIN_BADGE
Exactly screw what other people think. Its pretty safe to say most if not all like engaging games that are fleshed out, but we also want to have fun. I remember when I pretty much came back to Nintendo gaming was after years of PC/Xbox/Sony gaming, then it hit me: "That's right! Games are supposed to be fun." As a gamer I forgot that a game shouldn't feel like a second job, filled with only a handful of truly fun moments. Nintendo still has that ability to provide games that are just a delight to play.
Anyone still excited about Wii U? I don't.
@Bolt_Strike
Did you play them? The levels in 3D World were much larger than in 3D Land. I wouldn't be surprised if you could fit several 3D Land levels in some of 3D World's levels. As for the linear design, that follows Galaxy's pattern, and is also in line with 2D games. The only games that were open to explore were Mario 64 and Sunshine, and you still had to play the levels in order for the most part.
"The recent 3D Mario games are more 2D gameplay applied to a 3D space than a true hybrid style"
That sounds like a 2D/3D hybrid to me. Just think about it. We're playing games in 3D worlds, which means 3D gameplay, with 2D-styled gameplay.
"And frankly, I'm sick of seeing the 2D gameplay, it's so repetitive and simplistic that it just feels like the same game over and over again."
That criticism applies to every genre. How much you can "take" depends on your preference for the genre. I love platformers, so I don't get bored with them easily, but I quickly get bored with open world games unless there's something else there to keep me, like the JRPG part of Xenoblade.
@3MonthBeef
What I meant was that Nintendo's games tend towards specific styles. If you don't like those styles, you likely won't want much that they make, and therefore won't have much to play on the Wii U. Bayonetta 2 was actually them veering away from their usual style.
@TrueWiiMaster Not really. In 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, they gave you a couple of levels at a time and a couple of missions in each level, and your only requirement for moving on is to collect a certain amount of Stars/Shines. This way, you could go to any level you want and have a certain amount of freedom in what missions you do and what order. In 3D Land and 3D World, this freedom does not exist, you have to do levels one after the other in order for the most part with the occasional instance where you can choose 1 of 2 levels. 3D Land and 3D World simply cannot call themselves a hybrid style without accommodating that style of play, that's where most of the differences lie between the 2D and 3D games. 2D and 3D itself aren't as different, with the only real difference being the ability to sidestep enemies and obstacles, and the lack of differences are especially noticeable with a 3D game because they're not taking full advantage of the third dimension.
@Bolt_Strike
But you did have to collect enough stars/shines to continue. Until then, you were stuck with the level(s) you were on, and the levels you'd already passed. Probably the thing I disliked most about Mario 64 was being stuck on a level I didn't like, having to play it over and over until I had enough stars to move on. I don't remember having that problem in Sunshine, though. Honestly, it's difficult to say either style is better, because they both have advantages and disadvantages. The classic style allows for bigger, more complex levels, which means more exploration, but ends up with far fewer levels, which it has to reuse. The newer style, on the other hand, allows for more levels, quicker progress, and more variety, but the levels lack the depth of the classic style, and there's less exploration.
If 3D World had "accommodated" that style, it would have been even less a hybrid, because it would have just been Mario 64 2 (not that I'd mind such a game). The hybrid status comes from playing like a 2D game, in a 3D game.
@Xenocity you put your finger on it. As a 3DS owner and a longtime gamer there is nothing here that interests me. It's all rehash, sequel, or pokemon. How about something new? Daring? Seems Nintendo is not that kind of company (or at least not for thecurrent consoles)
I thought this was a very well-written article. Which is surprising because I'm rarely, if ever, impressed by journalistic skill.
@Bolt_Strike
"I sure don't see any quality in the mess of similar looking platformers (NSMBU, 3D World, and Tropical Freeze being the biggest offenders)"
Now look, I know platformers are not everyone's cup of tea, but DKC Tropical Freeze is, simply put, the greatest 2D platformer of all time. It just doesn't get any better than that. Simple? Hardly. Repetitive? I've never played a less repetitive platformer in my life. Every stage in the game, from start to finish, is as diverse and unique as one could ever hope for. It's a seriously excellent game.
I won't even get into the other 2 games as I see others already have anyways, but DKC Tropical Freeze is a masterful game, absolutely brilliant. Once you play through the game, and try your hand at the time trials, you start realizing just how smart the developers really are, as every single enemy, ledge, crevice, vine and barrel has an exact purpose and specific location that can be taken advantage of for shortcuts and insanely difficult maneuvers that only the most skilled gamers should even contemplate.
@TrueWiiMaster The requirement to reach the flagpole in each level of 3D Land/3D World muted the benefit of the star system though. Yeah, you couldn't progress without a certain number of stars, but you also couldn't progress without reaching each flagpole. So say, if you were stuck on 4-1, you have to bear through it in order to progress. You would have to beat 4-1 to unlock 4-2, beat 4-2 to unlock 4-3, etc. Whereas in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, you generally weren't locked into completing specific levels, if one level gave you trouble, you could simply choose another level and still progress in the game.
Honestly, it doesn't take much to fix this, all they really need to do is give you a Star for reaching the goal and allow you access to several levels at a time, then you can play it either as a traditional linear platformer and automatically fulfill the Star requirement as you go from one level to the next or explore the level for hidden Stars and have a choice on which levels to complete. Level design would be much tougher to fix, but even then there wasn't as much issue with Galaxy's levels being linear so I think the fanbase would accept something along those lines.
@JaxonH The problem with relying on levels to create a different experience is that they don't last long, so they're only really temporary distractions from the issue of repetitive gameplay that form a sort of patchwork experience. All three of the games I listed are really lacking that major, overarching gameplay element that completely changes the experience, so they feel repetitive and similar to past entries.
Paper Mario...sniff
@Bolt_Strike
Can't say I understand what you're referring to. By repetitious I mean yes, you're playing levels throughout the game with certain set of skills, but it doesn't feel repetitious because each stage brings a new design, layout, enemies, environment, and even combinations of testing your skills to get through. The game length is such that you don't feel any sort of repetition before the ending credits. If you do, I think platformers may just not be for you.
I mean, like any game, there's a gameplay loop. But if it's fun, and challenging, it shouldn't be anything other than exhilarating. And Tropical Freeze challenges you so much (in a good way) it's hard to feel anything other than adrenaline pumping. Unless you're @rjejr and you can't beat the second world... jk rjejr
@mjc0961
Allow me to perhaps interject some insight to this person's comments, because it's a tad difficult to explain without coming off wrong.
Ok, so I kind of feel the same way. I play all games on all major platforms (Wii U, PS4, X1, 3DS and Vita). I just love video games in general, and will seek them out wherever they are, on any console. There are some absolutely remarkable games on Xbox and PS.
Ori & the Blind Forest, Halo MCC and Halo 5, Rise of the Tomb Raider (LOVE that game), Rare Replay, The Last of Us Remastered, Uncharted Collection, Infamous Second Son, MGSV, Gravity Rush, Persona 4 Golden, Wipeout 2048...
I could go on.
Point is, yes, absolutely there are great games everywhere. But... I don't get the same feeling from most of the other games in the industry. Sometimes I do, with a rare 3rd party gem (Monster Hunter or Final Fantasy for example) but by and large, the AAA games are pretty forgettable.
To give you a personal example, The Last of Us. I really, really liked that game. Which is, as we all know, touted as supposedly the best the industry has to offer. Or, at least Sony. And I agree it was fantastic. Pinnacle of the genre, no doubt. And yet, it didn't feel that special to me. Pretty forgettable actually. Whereas with many Nintendo games- even B-list titles, there's this innocent, simplistic fun that just, Idk, really resonates with me.
It may not sound logical but, then again, gaming shouldn't be a mind-based thing. It should be a heart-based thing. How a game makes you feel is what will determine how much you love it. And that's the issue I have with a lot of the mainstream games out there nowadays. On paper they're spectacular, check every box on the list, but so few of them really provide that pure, unadulterated fun.
Now that's not to say I don't like other games and won't play them- like I said I love and play games all around, but to me, personally, and I'll wager this gentleman you're speaking to, they just aren't a match for a good old fashion, fun-focused Nintendo game. Pikmin 3- I will still be singing its praises 10 years from now. DKC Tropical Freeze? Lifetime fave. Fire Emblem Fates? I might as well tattoo the franchise on my forehead at this point But I can't say I feel that way about most of the other games out there. Idk why.
@JaxonH Take Galaxy for example. Galaxy added antigravity level design and a spin move, and those additions were utilized throughout the entire game and the level gimmicks served to flesh them out and show how they can be innovative and useful. Whereas the likes of 3D World and Tropical Freeze don't really have comparable additions and rely almost entirely on level gimmicks for new things, the base gameplay of those games is just the same as every other Mario or DKC game so they don't feel as changed. The level gimmicks in those games only serve to mask a sense of stagnation in the gameplay, as opposed to complementing a gamewide improvement in the formula.
@Bolt_Strike
Can't really argue there. No, Tropical Freeze doesn't have anything like that.
And yet, I don't think it needed it. Reason being, the core mechanics were so incredibly honed to precision, that the entire game served as an obastacle course to improve and sharpen your technical skill.
I think games can provide fun in a lot of different ways. And I think the disparity between our feedback is that you are looking for a specific type of fun to be had in a platformer, and therefore aren't really interested in this alternate type of fun provided by DCK.
It's hard to explain the appeal to a person that hasn't, well, experienced that appeal for themselves. But Ill try. The fun is in mastering the technical mechanics, and progressively utilizing that skill to advance. I used to hold world record time trial runs in that game (2nd fastest in the world without taking damage on 6-K notoriously one of the hardest levels in the game). But I fired up the game last week and couldn't even BEAT the level. Made me realize how skilled I had become by the 6th world.
So ya, it's just a different type of experience, one that focuses on expert level design and challenge over innovating gameplay that reinvents the wheel. Both are valid, but obviously each has its audience.
@mjc0961
I disagree. If it had followed that style, it would have been another traditional 3D Mario, erasing almost all traces of any hybridization.
I consider them major successes. While playing them, I really felt like I was somehow playing a 2D game in 3D. The elements you're referring to, while obviously prevalent in early 3D Mario games, aren't what make a game 3D. That would be the 3rd dimension. And I really liked the running in 3D World. It felt fast and sharp. If it hadn't been assigned to a button, it probably would have been slowed down.
Linear level design in 3D Mario started with Galaxy. Most of the levels were entirely about getting from point A to point B, following a set path.
@Bolt_Strike
You do have to beat each level, but they're shorter than the levels of Mario 64 and Sunshine. Even if you get stuck on a level, you don't have to get far to pass it. If you really want to skip it, you can even use the invulnerability power they offer when you die repeatedly. In Mario 64, you could focus on other levels, but in order to play a level you don't like only once, you have to get almost all of the stars on other levels, which means replaying other levels even more so you can play one level less.
In order to make that change the levels would have to be different. More specifically, they'd need to be larger and more complex to support multiple missions and/or hidden stars. That means fewer, longer levels, less variety, and likely required replays.
"The problem with relying on levels to create a different experience is that they don't last long, so they're only really temporary distractions from the issue of repetitive gameplay"
All games are repetitive. They establish mechanics/rules, and use them throughout the game repeatedly, until the end. They use "distractions" like story, varying levels, different characters, increasing difficulty, etc. to make the games interesting despite the fact that you're just shooting, jumping, kicking, slashing, etc over and over.
"the base gameplay of those games is just the same as every other Mario"
That's technically true, but it's important to note that 3D Land/World were the first 3D Mario games to feature that base purely, without the extras (anti-gravity, FLUD, etc). That's a big part of what made them so unique.
@Frank90 You're in luck, looks like it's a physical release.
My hype for the Star Fox Zero bundle and Federation Force is steadily rising! Lots of fun to be had!
@TrueWiiMaster "The elements you're referring to, while obviously prevalent in early 3D Mario games, aren't what make a game 3D. That would be the 3rd dimension."
It doesn't matter if they aren't what makes the game 3D, it matters that they're what makes the gameplay the way it is. So it can't be a proper hybrid without them.
And honestly, I could make the case that 3D Land and 3D World aren't proper 3D games by that definition because they rarely utilize the third dimension, you're mainly being pushed forward the entire level just like a 2D game, only with a little bit of wiggle room to dodge.
"Linear level design in 3D Mario started with Galaxy. Most of the levels were entirely about getting from point A to point B, following a set path."
Honestly, Galaxy is a much better example of a hybrid style. The levels are linear and obstacle based much like the 2D games, but they still retain the 3D's progression system and sense of freedom.
"You do have to beat each level, but they're shorter than the levels of Mario 64 and Sunshine. Even if you get stuck on a level, you don't have to get far to pass it."
Length isn't really relevant here, if you're stuck, you're stuck.
"If you really want to skip it, you can even use the invulnerability power they offer when you die repeatedly."
That's handholding,
"In Mario 64, you could focus on other levels, but in order to play a level you don't like only once, you have to get almost all of the stars on other levels, which means replaying other levels even more so you can play one level less."
It's better to compare 3D Land/3D World levels to episodes, since they're similar length. And in that respect, the older 3D games have much more choice. If you're stuck on an episode, you can go to another level and choose another. Heck, in 64 you can even skip episodes.
"In order to make that change the levels would have to be different. More specifically, they'd need to be larger and more complex to support multiple missions and/or hidden stars. That means fewer, longer levels, less variety, and likely required replays."
Eh, not really. They can make levels about as big as they are already and still accomplish that. Most of the levels are already open enough to support multiple missions and all they really need is a short branch from the main path at most. That's all completely manageable.
"That's technically true, but it's important to note that 3D Land/World were the first 3D Mario games to feature that base purely, without the extras (anti-gravity, FLUD, etc). That's a big part of what made them so unique."
That's exactly the problem though, those "extras" are what help new games stand out in the first place. Without them the game is just relying on the same old mechanics as ever which gets old fast.
I had a big stupid smile on my face for almost 25 minutes during the beginning of the direct, but I will admit it waned by the end where I was just watching the TV wondering if anything interesting was going to be revealed. The new info of Star Fox Zero/Guard and Paper Mario had me nearly cheering though, so overall I'd say it was well done.
I even have interest in Metroid Prime Federation Force, albeit quite guarded in my optimism considering the interest in the New 3DS stick (still have OG XL) and the notable heavy reliance in multiplayer, which is what killed Triforce Heroes for me as I don't have many friends, and even less with 3DS' and interest in buying the same games as me.
@3MonthBeef
I think people who haven't played 3D World misjudge it, thinking it's just 3D Land HD. I thought so too, until I played it, and was awe-stricken at just how amazing the game was. Not to discredit 3D Land cause I really enjoyed that game, but 3D World made it seem like amateur hour tbh. It was good for a handheld game, but, after playing World I realized just how generic and average 3D Land was in comparison. You'd be amazed at just how much better World is in every way. The crisp, gorgeous HD visuals may just be aesthetic, but combined with the infinitely better level design, compelling mechanics with the cat suit and just all around masterful design, its hard to believe both games actually came from the same company.
And I think most people here who have actually played through both games to compare, will say something similar.
While I appreciate all of the information that Nintendo gave us about upcoming titles, I feel that the Direct came off a little lacking. Before you get the pitchforks out, hear me out. I feel a big issue was the big elephant in the room or as in this case not in the room. That would be NX.
We all knew NX was not going to be discussed, and I understand that. The same holds true for mobile, but am I the only one who feels so-so about the Wii U portion of the Direct? Please understand this isn't me downing Nintendo.
The Wii U is obviously in its Twilight, no pun intended. It is difficult to get excited for a game like Star Fox or Paper Mario knowing that there is NX hanging out there on the horizon. We all know Nintendo and their three pillars only go as far as people moving to the NX.
I think the 3DS still has teeth. They had some decent stuff from this direct, but knowing that Pokemon is coming up, you still get the feeling that this will be supported.
I know it seems a bit contradictory because we still have Zelda U, but Wii U is playing out just like GameCube and Wii did. One last Zelda game before we sign off. It just really took away from the Direct to me.
@mjc0961 Don't get me wrong they were fun for a time then they got either boring, tedious, became a chore, or just became the same thing with different guns. I'm talking about games like EQ, WoW, Counter-Strike, CoD. There are plenty of other games like Alice, or Deadpool, but they essentially are the same in a different skin. There will always be grea standouts like Portal, Shadow of the Colossus, among others but those were/are great because they went against the grain. The only games that have any replay value for me are RTS as every game is different, but lately those too start to follow the same trend. The only game that stood out the most in that regard was the homeworld series, except for the latest incarnation which just looks reminiscent of the Dune RTS from years past.
With Nintendo I'm finding more and more fresh takes on games. If I'm honest though, some of them fall flat. Nintendo isn't immune to their tried and true formula for making game either. Still in spite of that there are tremendous efforts, outside of platforms, to try new things or a combination of things. Which is very refreshing in today's gaming climate.
@IronMan28 Yes, I thought that too, although I've found strange the complete lack of ZeldaU footage. What I can assume, is that they will soon do a special Direct all dedicated to it; after all it does deserve it.
@IceClimbers I almost feel like it's impossible for Zelda to be delayed b/c I'm not even sure when the last time was they dated it? Is there a statute of limitations on release dates?
I'm sure Sony isn't going to say The Last Guardian was delayed and that was due out in late 2009 or early 2010 (it was on my "must buy" list w/ Darksiders, God of War 3, Dante's Inferno and Bayonetta). FFXV is about 10 years overdue (if you count when it was FFXIII vs).
Good for Starfox though. Of course it was already delayed once from last Nov.
Did you see the Aonouma vid where he says "the new Zelda game" about 3x but never says "U"? Not sure if it's any better to have it release in 2016 but on NX instead of U. Guess we have to wait until E3 now.
Much better than I expected.
I was preparing for an hour trudge, however, they managed to pull some surprises out the hat.
Paper Mario Colour Splash, I can't wait already !
@aaronsullivan Speaking of prices, what do you think, Wii U price cut on Friday to correspond to the new Select pricing? It's mid March, who's buying a Wii U at $300 now w/ NX coming? Not anything drastic like $199, but $269 to correspond to the $169 3DS price? I don't like $259 or $279, too odd, and $249 is probably too low for them. $30 is something worth marketing I think.
Of course the counter argument - Pokken in March and Starfox in April means no price cut until May, before they announce NX, which needs to be in May before E3 where the game need to be front and center, not the hardware.
Has any videogame company in the history of gaming had 2 consoles - last gen and next gen - selling for the same price? Can't have Wii U at $299 and NX at $349 even (if NX is basically a Wii U w/ portable Gamepad). Even if NX is a 3DS handheld replacement I don't think Wii U can be $299 during the holidays.
Off topic, my family and I watched Pixels Saturday night and while it may be a bit old for your kids - PG13 - it wasn't bad, my kids and wife liked it better than Wreck-it-Ralph. I'm partial to Vanelope but Pixels was still ok.
@JaxonH Well I could have beaten the 2nd world if I watched Superguide do it.
And speaking of not beating things, Vita crushed me last night in XCX. Partially my own fault as I spent so much time leveling up to 50 to buy the new skells but then I rushed off w/o buying them. Then I raged quit after respawning and all my skells were no more. Not even sure when my last save was. There's a reason all JRPG should have multiple save points, and boss fights are the reason. I always alternate between 2 save points when playing JRPG just in case. I'm not replaying 125 hours of XCX.
@rjejr
I alternate save points too.
But I also save religiously- auto save should have you covered at certain story moments though.
@Sinalefa
True. But I do recall you enjoying FE quite a bit until you got stuck. I didn't wanna say anything at the time cause you seemed really pissed off, but I'll say it now.
I think there's something simple you just may have been doing wrong because the maps are designed to be beaten without losing a single unit. On casual you'd have to lose your entire team to not win, which would almost take purposeful wreckless abandon to achieve.
And I over exaggerate the time spent planning each move sometimes in an effort to make a point about not tossing people into danger carelessly. As long as you're adhering to basic strategies like pairing for defense, baiting out the enemy one at a time by keeping tabs on their range, and sticking to weapon advantages (weapon triangle and bows being lethal to winged units), it's almost impossible to lose all your units in a single map.
Of course, learning to exploit enemy range restrictions is key also. Attacking archers from adjacent squares ensures they can't attack back, and using mages/archers to attack range-1 units ensures they can't attack back.
If you have a few min, you should watch this guy play Chapter 6 of Fates Birthright (chapter with the choice) and just observe his approach. It's an interesting watch anyways, very intense as he's playing with permadeath
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLkR3RWLcKJURN9nw2JEqkJjhxglK9wR1F&v=Krebi2W7j2k
@sinalefa
Just bear in mind this guy is a really hardcore player, and if he loses a unit they're gone forever, obviously he's very careful. But the basic strategies can still apply for anyone
@FRANKLIN_BADGE
Then you aren't taking "hardcore" gaming seriously.
You'd literally scolded and ran out of E3 based on your gaming beliefs.
We have all the data, the angry articles from the gaming press whining about how Nintendo has abandoned real gamers by making kiddie and "casual" consumers, we have NeoGaf trashing Nintendo for not producing mature content for the "hardcore".
You would get shamed and blasted in public if you lived in a Western country just for playing a Nintendo handheld in public (I get on a regular basis).
You still get criticism for being a grown man who is caught playing Nintendo games, because yeah it's too kiddie looking to be acceptable for grown men.
Animation is also not acceptable for a grown man to like in the U.S.
Same goes other types of films and TV shows.
We also have mainstream press including NPR who regularly runs stories about "hardcore" vs. "casual" gamers and the war brewing between gamers that is splitting the industry apart. They also talk about how Nintendo is ignoring the "hardcore" gamer by releasing family friendly content.
We also have articles from the BBC, Wall Street Journal, Analysts, New York Times, CNN, Forbes, Fortune (most trusted business publication in the West), Fox News, USA Today, Detroit Free Press, News Week, PBS, Nikkei, who regularly run articles about "hardcore" and "casual" gaming and how you go to Sony and Microsoft for "hardcore" games and you go to Nintendo for family friendly and "casual" games.
Nikkei (Asia's most credible business publication) just published an article over the weekend about how Nintendo profits are waning because they only appeal to "casual" and kids, while ignoring what real gamers want. (you have to be a subscriber to read their articles).
There is also food, drinks, credit cards, and other products aimed at the "hardcore" gaming life style, which heavily focuses on guns, violence, sex and AAA Blockbuster games in it's marketing and social media presence.
Now please join the horrible state of gaming in this year of 2016.
I stand by my claim there is nothing coming out this year that appeals to "hardcore" gamers in the West.
I will buy plenty of games that most wont touch, but I know better than to publicly talk about them here in the U.S.
@caffeine_addict
I never said there wasn't anything new.
There is plenty of new stuff in existing franchises, but not many things can be considered a new IP outside of Pokkén (which I can't wait to get).
But to Nintendo's defense new IPs and games with new mechanics rarely sell well, especially in the West.
This is the same for the rest of the industry.
In the West consumers prefer established IPs with little change, and they tend to ignore most new IPs.
This why all nearly every game charting on PS4 in the West is an established IP with little change, while everything else bombs on PS4.
Nearly every new IP on PS4 and Xbox One follows the established shooter mold, AAA Blockbuster mold, and/or M-rated games.
Though to be fair Nintendo has been receiving a lot of flack over the past few years for focusing too much on innovation, creativity, and changing things up at the expense of their traditional consumers.
This Direct is receiving a huge backlash across the Western gaming media sites such as Kotaku, NeoGaf, Gamespot, IGN, EGM, etc... for not focusing on the what the West likes.
Their users are up in arms.
I am surprised the NY Times, USA Today, and Forbes hasn't ran with it yet.
@JaxonH
The game was enjoyable when maps were shorter. It seems later maps take a lot of planning and time. When I saw those units on the overworld map and I said "ugh, an extra battle" instead of "cool, an extra battle" I realized the game was not for me.
@sinalefa
Truth be told I'm the same way. I avoided (and still do avoid) those extra battles like the plague. They're just not that fun if it's not advancing the story or a really unique, awesome, challenging map. I used to have a system in Awakening where I'd bounce around between the shops not blocked by a battle.
But yes, the maps get a little longer as you progress. But, it's supposed to be fun playing them to where bigger maps are a good thing. So if that wasn't the case then ya, Idk.
@Xenocity I agree with what you have to say about Western Gamers. The sad things is we also beat our chest for new IP that with few exceptions end up being successful. In fact the most successful new IP's in the last few years have been games designed with the "hardcore" gamer not in mind.
In the last five years, Sklander, Disney Infinity, Lego Dimensions, and Splatoon have been huge new IP's. Fire Emblem Fates has made a strong push in the West as well as Japan. Interesting thing, two of those are Nintendo exclusives. I know Fire Emblem is not supposed to be a new IP, but Awakenings was largely overlooked (30,000 copies). Fates is being introduced as a game that needs no history.
@JaxonH "auto save should have you covered"
Well auto save should have me covered, unless it autosaved after I got into the Lifecore and it doesn't let me back out, in which case I may not be able to beat the final boss. And if I can't beat the final boss I can't do all those other missions I want to do, Professor B is waiting for a bottle of wine. At least I think that's what that tiny type says. Who knows, I can't read any of it.
Probably give it another shot tonight after my kids basketball game, which we are now late for.
@rjejr
Ah ok I remember this issue now. Ya I saved before going in there. When Elma said "Are you sure, there's no going back" I was like yep, better save.
Don't forget if you lose 3 times itll lower boss difficulty. So don't reset or anything. Just try 3 times, if you can't win the 4th should be doable. And he's not THAT hard especially after playing him a few times and learning pattern.
@JaxonH "Don't forget if you lose 3 times itll lower boss difficulty."
Oh sure, now you tell me. You know, if DKC:TF had that I'd still be playing.
So anyway, save point -which I honestly don't remember doing - was right before Elma asked me twice if I wanted to go in there. So before talking to her I high tailed it back to NLA and spent $9mil (of my $10mil) on 3 new level 50 skells. Also kicked out level 23 Doug for level 43 Kelv (Elv?) and gave him my old skell w/ that back mounted mega-canon from the side missions. Was actually too easy that time (once I realized I needed to get out of my skell b/c of low fuel, just before I threw my Gamepad across the room looking for Psycho Mantis) . He barley got his shield up, 3 hit the generator, and wiped out 7 of those 10 guys in 1 hit w/ "meteor strike" in homage to Sephiroth.
So now I'm 126 hours in and I feel like the game is finally really beginning. Well the part I care about anyway. Best not tell me any more, I need to find out what's going on on my own.
@JaxonH You complete me
@Bolt_Strike
"And honestly, I could make the case that 3D Land and 3D World aren't proper 3D games by that definition because they rarely utilize the third dimension, you're mainly being pushed forward the entire level just like a 2D game, only with a little bit of wiggle room to dodge."
There were a few levels like that, but most were big and open, fully using the 3rd dimension. Did you really not play these games?
"Honestly, Galaxy is a much better example of a hybrid style. The levels are linear and obstacle based much like the 2D games, but they still retain the 3D's progression system and sense of freedom."
So they were linear, but still had a sense of freedom? As I remember it, most levels were just going from little planet to little planet, almost in a line.
Level length is relevant when you get stuck. If you're stuck on a short level, you only have to push a short time to get through it. If the level makes up a quarter of the world, like in Mario 64, you have to play it repeatedly, or repeat the other levels even more to make up for it.
The invulnerability power is handholding, which is why I don't use it, but I'd say it's still better than outright skipping the level, which is what you're proposing should be possible.
You could make that comparison, but if 3D World's levels are like episodes, Mario 64's are like entire seasons. You can skip a season here and there, but if you do, you better enjoy the others, because you'll be playing them all the way through, and they cover the same ground in every episode.
"Eh, not really. They can make levels about as big as they are already and still accomplish that. Most of the levels are already open enough to support multiple missions"
What happened to "only with a little bit of wiggle room to dodge"? That said, many of the levels could have offered something small, like a red coin mission, but much more than that would be pushing it. They just weren't designed to accommodate multiple big goals. Besides, there are hidden stars to collect, and there's a reason to collect them: unlocking the hardest level in Mario history (in my experience, anyway).
"That's exactly the problem though, those "extras" are what help new games stand out in the first place. Without them the game is just relying on the same old mechanics as ever which gets old fast."
What you call the "same old mechanics" I would call time-tested gameplay. There's a reason people still play those classic games, even though they've played them numerous times before. They're just that good. 3D Land/World took those polished, much-loved mechanics and applied them to a 3D game. That's what made them stand out.
@TrueWiiMaster "There were a few levels like that, but most were big and open, fully using the 3rd dimension. Did you really not play these games?"
IDK what game you're playing but it definitely wasn't 3D Land or 3D World, both of them are highly linear.
"So they were linear, but still had a sense of freedom? As I remember it, most levels were just going from little planet to little planet, almost in a line."
Well the planets were a little more explorable than 3D Land/3D World's levels but I was more referring to how they kept the Power Star system and you could choose from several different levels at a time instead of being forced to complete them in a specific order.
"Level length is relevant when you get stuck. If you're stuck on a short level, you only have to push a short time to get through it. If the level makes up a quarter of the world, like in Mario 64, you have to play it repeatedly, or repeat the other levels even more to make up for it."
No, it really doesn't matter. If you can't do something, then it doesn't matter how much more there is to do, because you have to do it to move on.
"The invulnerability power is handholding, which is why I don't use it, but I'd say it's still better than outright skipping the level, which is what you're proposing should be possible."
Skipping the level isn't handholding because you still have to beat a certain amount of missions to beat the game. You don't have to beat every level to beat the game, just as you don't have to beat the bonus worlds in 3D Land/3D World to beat those games. The difference is that the latter decides what levels you have to beat and in what order, whereas in the former you have some choice in what levels you play and in what order, just as long as you beat a certain percentage of the content. It gives the player a greater sense of flexibility in progressing through the game.
Basically, even though you can skip levels in the older 3D games, you still have to accomplish things yourself whereas with the invulnerability powerup the game is cheating to get you past a level you're struggling on.
You could make that comparison, but if 3D World's levels are like episodes, Mario 64's are like entire seasons. You can skip a season here and there, but if you do, you better enjoy the others, because you'll be playing them all the way through, and they cover the same ground in every episode.
Episodes as in one mission in the level. In other words, the scale of the two types of levels aren't comparable, one level in 3D Land/3D World is comparable to the size of one mission in one level of the older 3D levels, and the older 3D levels are closer to a full world in 3D Land/3D World. So basically what I'm saying is the older 3D games are set up, in 3D Land/3D World terms, so if you're struggling with World 4 you can skip it and work on World 5, which is something that can't be done in 3D Land/3D World because the worlds and levels must be completed in exact order.
"What you call the "same old mechanics" I would call time-tested gameplay. There's a reason people still play those classic games, even though they've played them numerous times before. They're just that good. 3D Land/World took those polished, much-loved mechanics and applied them to a 3D game. That's what made them stand out."
Not everyone feels this way though, and in fact for a lot of fans (especially fans that aren't retro purists) the fatigue with NSMB/3D's mechanics has set in. It's definitely time for something fresh.
@rjejr Wii U price... That's tough because it should have been lower for so long now that I think Nintendo must have reasons. Perhaps the initial hardware run has never been sold through. Perhaps it has done the math and selling more hardware at a loss just isn't going to pay off enough. I don't know.
We could say it should sell low now before NX gets revealed but really, there have been far stronger reasons for so long.
The NX reveal is very interesting to me. You say E3 should be for game information if it is going to sell this Holiday, but have you seen how companies are pulling back from E3? The problem is that it all depends on what this first reveal of NX hardware is even going to be! It will benefit Nintendo if it can use the whatever the hardware is to cast a shadow over the other guys in some way, but maybe it's not that sort of thing. For instance, if it is handheld only to start with. There's just not a big hurry, in my opinion. If it is a console with superior (or close) hardware to PS4 with something buzz worthy on top of that, it might be great to have that potential hanging over everything. Then, you reveal the great game line up to really get the buzz going during the E3 timeframe.
Major developers have already had the opportunity to deal with NX apparently, so it doesn't matter as much when it is revealed unless Nintendo really thinks it can drum up consumer excitement which tends to incite some developer/publisher fervor in return.
Part of me would like to see a great deal of impressive gameplay and a real lineup of games the same day we see the hardware, though.
Of course, I'd love to have more solid information to further speculate on, so I also think a reveal sometime in March would be just ducky.
@aaronsullivan I don't know who boltstike and trumaster are, and I didn't read there comments, but's good to see some other long comments on her, not just ours.
Are you replying to my long comment about a Wii U price not being decreased this morning? I don't think that was in this thread. I don' tthink I car enay more, bu tthat was such a good ND last THurdays, another minute for the $19.99 Nintnedo Slects and a $269 Wii U would have been a nice icing on the cake.
As for what the frak NX is. Man, as much as I enjoy discussing things on here w/ you and others, I'm kind of burned out. Didn't we spend all of last summer discussing it? Handheld, home, both, separate, either, or - just tell us already.
But they won't, not until May. They haven't even really started marketing Miitomo yet and that's out this month. Project Guard needs more coverage, b/c I like me some TD games, but I have no idea what is going on in that one.
OK, stayed up too late again watching CNN, bed now.
@TrueWiiMaster - My point is that we kept hearing how there will be no new games for Wii U, and that all focus has been shifted to NX by gaming media and negativity trolls.
...Yet they keep announcing new games for Wii U.
It doesn't matter if it's three or three dozen since the Wii U has had sparse software releases for it's entire lifespan, so this year's release schedule isn't much different at all.
@Bolt_Strike
They were linear in how you progressed through the levels, but the levels themselves were usually very open. They were far from "a 2D game, only with a little bit of wiggle room to dodge."
There was a bit more choice about that in Galaxy, but it was closer to 3D World than to Mario 64. The levels themselves were barely less linear than 3D World's.
Generally when you get stuck on a level, it's not because you literally cannot get past it. It's because you have trouble with it, so it takes longer. I don't think I've ever encountered a level where I just thought "well, this is clearly impossible, might as well stop trying".
I didn't say skipping levels was handholding, I said it was arguably worse. It really comes down to optional help, or giving up and moving on. What's worse when facing a hard level, a handicap to help, or a forfeit?
That's exactly the point I was making. If each mission is an episode, each level in Mario 64 is like a season. In 3D World, each level is an episode, and each world is like a season. The difference is that in Mario 64, every episode is an alternate version of the other episodes in the season, whereas every episode in 3D World is completely different from the others. 3D World allows for much more variety, at the expense of bigger, more complex levels to explore. Neither is necessarily the better method.
I want a fresh Mario game too, but I would say that 3D World was itself fresh when it came out. A fresh take on NSMB is probably much less likely, as the whole idea behind the franchise is classic 2D Mario, which is fine, as long as the games are good.
@Action51
And my point was that they don't keep announcing new games for the Wii U. It wasn't three or three dozen. It was one (plus a remake). In more than 8 months. The Wii U's getting a fair number of games this year, but almost all of them have been known since before last year's E3. They're just finally coming out. It's actually the same with the 3DS. Almost every single game coming to the 3DS this year is old news in Japan. There's almost nothing, that we know of, in development. To me, that signifies that both systems will be replaced soon.
@TrueWiiMaster - Repeating the same wrong information doesn't change it's validity, or the context.
I was talking about the negativity mongers who were telling us that the Wii U was "dead" and no new games were coming to it since the NX announcement.
If you weren't among those people, there's no reason to be defending that.
However: New games have been announced like Pokken Tournament and Paper Mario...and Sharp FE and Zelda U were also re-confirmed despite absolutely no official word whatsoever that they wouldn't be coming to Wii U...In fact they only needed to be re-confirmed because of the wild speculation and negativity I'm talking about in the first place.
@rjejr Yeah, I'm done speculating on the specifics of the NX hardware. It was fun, but I just want to know now.
I am still interested in the timing of things and the prices and all that. Third party interest, as well.
Good point about miitomo. It needs this month to gain traction. I think we'll all try it out in this family just to see.
Project Guard looks a bit more limited than I'd like, but it should be a fun addition to the Star Fox package. Definitely seems like an admission that Star Fox proper is going to be a short experience with replay value being a key feature. Star Fox 64 was that way. It was great, but people are very reactionary on the internet these days... have you noticed?
@aaronsullivan I can't hear anybody else screaming over my own.
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