Well, there are quite a few mumblings and rumours kicking around about the Nintendo NX once again. Talk of a release this year (again) and Nintendo pulling the Twilight Princess trick with the next main entry in the Zelda series (it being on both Wii U and NX) are doing the rounds. Some have been convincing, following up older and similar assertions while reinforcing semi-logical predictions; some less so, but it's another period where the mysterious next gen system is being discussed a great deal.
Courtesy of regular Nintendo Life contributor Liam Robertson we shared a rumour of our own - that EA and Nintendo are in discussions around sports titles for the NX. That link has the ins and outs, based on Liam's conversations with EA sources, but the summary is that EA has had NX development kits for some time, and is particularly keen on exploring its sports franchises for the system. It wants Nintendo to up its game in marketing to that demographic, however, and also wants various sports apps to feature on the hardware as they do on the likes of PS4 and Xbox One. Apparently.
It's worth addressing why we tagged this as Rumour, and why we hesitate and often don't share rumours from sources unfamiliar to us unless they firm up on their details or establish a reputation over time. Even though we know Liam well and trust him fully based on his work and track record, and recognise the fact he's been speaking to multiple sources, articles like these are still marked as rumours due to the simple fact that sources and company employees may not have the definitive picture and latest details. These articles can be fascinating and are great for debate points, but should always be treated with some care. We don't get every call right, but I for one have learnt from mistakes and generally prefer caution when dealing with 'leaks' and sources.
That said, I read the EA article (written by my colleague Damien) and the information it references, and my first instinct - on the basis that its contents are correct as of right now - is to be slightly pessimistic about the idea. I know I wrote at the start of the year about this being a time for Nintendo optimism, and I will try to stick to that - optimistic about third parties, though? That's trickier.
I still believe, and it's a personal opinion, that Nintendo is now in its own bubble in the games industry, which is both a positive and negative. It means that its franchises and approach to hardware and game design are unique, and you can have success stories like the 3DS that are driven primarily by exclusive games, with occasional ports and multi-platform releases. This has allowed the big N to make a dedicated gaming portable work in an age of smartphones and tablets, and can strengthen the bond between fans, gamers and Nintendo's brands.
On the flipside it can lead to a scenario like the Wii U, which has a batch of top-class exclusive games but nevertheless has failed to hit a critical mass, a point where sales pick up momentum and generate increasing buzz all the while. An example of a home console that achieved this was the Wii in the last generation and the PS4 this time around - early momentum setting the ground for sustained success over multiple years. The key difference is that the Wii was a concept machine that exploited the so-called 'blue ocean' of new gamers, whereas PS4 was the better value 'triple-A' machine when it launched. The Xbox One started slower, arguably because of its higher price and some arguments over performance, and is still trying to match PS4 momentum globally, never mind overtake it.
For Nintendo, though, a failure for a concept at mainstream level can be terminal to a hardware's long-term outlook, because of that aforementioned bubble. When you look at Xbox One and PS4 release schedules they're rammed with major releases from the likes of Ubisoft, Activision, EA and more, constantly filling release gaps and dominating a lot of gaming conversations online. Nintendo isn't in these conversations, but rather in its own areas where fans talk about Zelda, Mario and more first/second party games a heck of a lot, or perhaps direct attention to neat downloads on the eShop (whether old or new). Kind of like this place and many other sites, forums and sub-Reddits.
As I'm pretty sure I've argued in the past, that can be an acceptable state of affairs when Nintendo's concepts and hardware are paying off. Yet with each new generation comes the question of how Nintendo hardware and third parties can get along. The Wii and DS, due to their concepts and hardware limitations, forced major publishers to adapt their games yet also struggle - in some cases - to shift copies. Such was the size of each system's userbase, though, that EA kept churning out FIFA games on Wii (bad ones, admittedly) and many others (I recall loads of Sims games on DS and Wii, too), and even tried to produce exclusive content such as Wii Motion Plus vehicle Grand Slam Tennis. These sorts of games were often scaled back or 'alternative', and exclusives such as Ubisoft's Red Steel 2 also found themselves in bargain bins rather quickly. Connecting the Nintendo audience with third parties has been a problem for quite some time, and the Wii and DS era established the trend further.
The 3DS has attracted its own unique array of third party titles (RPGs galore from the likes of Square Enix, Atlus and Level-5), but that's just another example of the bubble. The home console space is trickier, and as this is where the NX is likely enter the market in some way - again, the system is a mystery beyond rumours and educated guessing - that's the key focus. It's no surprise that EA is interested in the hardware, and I'd bet the likes of Activision and Ubisoft are also among the first to have received NX dev kits and information. Reliable sources spoke of behind-closed-doors NX meetings and concept demonstrations as early as E3 2015, and that didn't surprise me one bit.
If I was a betting man I'd put all my money on Ubisoft, Activision, EA et al all talking big when the NX is announced, announcing a handful of games each for the system's launch window. Heck, Ubisoft is a dead cert, as it'll back pretty much anything initially and see how the sales go, while Activision still happily brings the Skylanders games - for example - to Nintendo hardware. The question is whether early release will be the right games. To go back to EA, its strategy with the Wii U was self-defeating from day one, even if factors like limited development kit access may have been a feature. It released a half-baked and old-tech FIFA 13 and a version of Mass Effect 3 when a Trilogy compilation was coming out on PS3 and Xbox 360, as two examples. No-one needed to be a genius to see the flaws in those plans, and when sales were poor - as they deserved to be, frankly - EA left the building. It was a disaster from the off.
Funnily enough though, I think Ubisoft got a tough rap from some for its early Wii U efforts. After all, ZombiU was an enjoyable - albeit buggy - exclusive when the Wii U launched; it was an early show of faith. What Ubisoft perhaps got wrong was that it was too quick to get scared off from that commitment, with the delay to Rayman Legends - in order to accommodate PS3 and Xbox 360 versions - causing plenty of anger among Wii U owners that could already see the writing on the wall. The original issue, though, that prompted that rash back-peddling from Ubi, was the fact the ZombiU had mediocre sales despite hefty marketing efforts, and then it was clear that the Wii U itself was stalling badly after its launch month.
When you take the various factors of what went wrong with third parties and Wii U, it's easy and relatively fair to point to what those companies did wrong. On the flipside, though, the buck stops with Nintendo. It failed to sell enough Wii U systems, for which it's responsible, and few executives would sanction development costs on hardware with a small install base and a fiddly infrastructure. It's easy to forget how limited the eShop setup was early on for publishers, for example: season tickets and DLC are more common now, but I remember how awful the processes were for Zen Pinball 2 - which was one of the boldest early download-only efforts - with Zen Studios talking of working around eShop challenges. There was also talk of the CPU and GPU internals being unconventional compared to rival systems and giving porting teams headaches. When you combine flighty triple-A publishers with a low userbase and some system-level issues, you're heading for a quick and slightly messy divorce.
All of those negatives are lessons learnt, hopefully, so let's assume the best for now and that the NX will have processing grunt and strong infrastructure. Even if that's the case, the likes of EA and their enormous contemporaries still can't simply churn out middling ports with no discernible innovations and expect the tills to ring. Why? Well, there's the Nintendo bubble, and the old adage that gamers buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. We're in an age where a number of gamers likely have multiple systems - a machine that runs all those multi-platform blockbusters, and then a Nintendo console for its own unique games.
With NX landing in the middle of the PS4 / Xbox One generation - whether that's this Holiday season or in 2017 - it has even less chance than normal of seizing that mantle as the primary triple-A blockbuster machine for the masses. Since the PS3 / Xbox 360 era I think Sony and Microsoft have turned that sector of the market - a battle over almost-equal iterations of dozens of 'triple-A' games per year - into a two horse race. This current generation has extended that, and I struggle to see many - whose main gaming preferences include the likes of FIFA and Call of Duty - choosing Nintendo's next system as their primary hardware.
The Nintendo brand simply doesn't fit in that part of the market, and reversing that would be incredibly difficult. The problem is how that reality also fits with an industry where the world's biggest publishers, that have largely shied away from Wii U (and to a degree 3DS), can release games and actually make money on the upcoming NX hardware. Make no mistake, it's a money game, and if these publishers make a profit on NX releases they'll make more games - it's not ideological when they ditch Nintendo systems like the Wii U, it's business.
The below-par ports and late re-releases didn't work on Wii U, so perhaps affordable but clever innovations and unique features are the way to tempt audiences into prospective NX multi-platform games. If the bulk of the consumer base is already enveloped in PS4 and Xbox One version, the Nintendo versions of major franchises - like FIFA, Madden and more besides - may need to target a broader demographic and bring something entirely new. Those innovations are dependent on the hardware, but let's speculate there's a portable aspect to the system - a FIFA or Madden game could have tactical or training aspects of gameplay to fill 5 minutes of time on the bus, or in-game activities that use travel and Wi-Fi hotspots to trigger new features. A bit like StreetPass after a few Red Bulls.
The problem with that argument is that this was arguably tried in the past with exclusive games and features from third parties. Much also depends on what the NX concept allows developers to do, how cheaply and easily they can develop on the hardware and how much Nintendo is willing to work to make these games a success. The EA sources talk about a desire for Nintendo to match the efforts of Sony and Microsoft in supporting bundles, pushing the hardware in marketing and - basically - spending a lot of cash.
In the end anything will be better than half-baked ports sent out to their inevitable failure. Nintendo undoubtedly needs to deliver to make the NX generation lucrative for the major third parties, namely by successfully selling the systems. Yet EA, Ubisoft et al also need to consider what makes the Nintendo market tick, and how they can appeal to that particular demographic in the games industry.
If the world's biggest publishers go in heavy and try to force PS4 and Xbox One-style approaches on a prospective next generation Nintendo audience, their Nintendo bubble will burst yet again.
Comments 133
By the power of Kimishima! Give us 3rd parties!! Kidding, I know it's more than that, but really. Something's gotta give.
The main thing Nintendo should just do is make the architecture and specs identical to the PS4. That'd just guarantee thousands of ports automatically.
@Dezzy Ports aren't enough, and it won't make people switch to NX.
@Dezzy Having identical specs to your competitor doesn't automatically generate ports. Look at Microsoft's Xbox One. They may get a lot of the big AAA titles but there is still a whole load of exclusives going to Sony's PlayStation 4.
Nintendo needs to do a lot more than just have ports. One thing they need are exclusives, especially from third parties. Again look at the PS4 with getting so many exclusives. They also need to start paying for console exclusive content in third party games.
And that is really just the tip of the iceberg for the things Nintendo needs to start doing with the NX, what ever it may be.
I'd love to see a lot more 3rd parties on the NX, but this'll require both Nintendo and the 3rd parties doing things right.
Nintendo needs to make it easy for 3rd parties to create games for the NX, and Nintendo needs to make sure the NX has satisfactory hardware and software in the system.
On the other side, the 3rd party developers need to make great games for the NX. If they just release inferior ports of games released previously on other consoles, then nobody is going to buy them.
Triple A? Creativity? Haha good joke. Next you'll be saying they won't have microtransactions, Season Passes and will actually work properly like games should do on launch.
But that goes beyond jokes and into impossibilities.
The NX needs needs all the triple a titles the other consoles have. They need the Elder Scrolls, Fallouts, Maddens titles. They need to make the all around console, both family and hardcore platform.
I really hope Nintendo is hard at work getting Third parties support. But I also hope that the support is good support. I want good games not half baked ports and unfinished games.
While I would buy third party games I like I'm not gonna go out of my way to pay for things I don't deem worthy. Like the Mass Effect 3 situation. Or most of the Bug riddle Ubisoft games barring Rayman Legends and ZombiU.
I want third parties to give me a reason to buy them. I regret buying games like Batman AK, Street Fighter V, Fallout 4 ect at full price day 1. I don't like want to be in those situations.
Hopefully SE is on board and we get Kingdom Hearts 3 along with the remixs
By my own experience I can say that I usually buy first party Nintendo games, rather than third party, mostly because Nintendo games are of a higher quality (and my budget is limited). Of course there are other good games out there, but I think that's the reason many people choose to buy Smash over Assasin's Creed or whatever.
IMO, some third parties are just not willing to compete against Nintendo.
@Dezzy
Nintendo don't need to make the architecture similar to the PSBox One. They need to make one that fits Nintendo and stick on it for a long time for the next generation NXs. With comments directly from Nintendo (Iwata, Miyamoto) about how Apple/Android games work on different forms (tablets, smartphones, etc), we'll likely to see NX handheld,NX home console, NX2, NX3, and so on with one OS that works on all Nintendo platforms. 3rd party just need to adapt to NX once and it'll be easier to adjust comes NX 2, 3 and all.
The system will need to sell boatloads in order for it to get any interesting and exclusive content, but it won't sell boatloads without the promise of said content up front. I just don't see how this could possibly work out well, honestly.
The problem lies at the core. Most third-party games these days are not attempting to stand out with fun, engaging gameplay as much as style, flash, and broad appeal. These games cannot hide on a Nintendo platform and unfortunately Nintendo fans have been practically raised to look skeptically upon most third-party games and their market focus.
@Dakt Well that's not far from what they have been doing on the Wii U, and look how that went. A more powerful console, assuming the NX is more powerful, will actually likely see Nintendo take longer to make their games due to the more resources required per title.
And if the NX is a hybrid, then that will just increase production time even more as all their games will need to be playable both at home and on the go.
Yes, There need to be Third Party games on a console, whatever, because gives more variety of games for the console and also provides all kinds of public entertainment are looking for.
However, my personal opinion added to that seen in this and the last generation, if third party game companies like EA and Ubisoft (even I can include almost many) it's necessary that Nintendo intervenes for the games are well developed , ie that both Third parties such as Nintendo contribute for the games are ready without failures at the time of release, but this means, at this stage of this generation, many development time, many investment and many risks of problems (say bugs, incomplete games and supplementing them with much DLC, Microtransaciones and etc.).
Now, we have seen the last games that Nintendo did before the end of 2015 (Mario Tennis, Animal Crossing amiibo Festival and long etc.), a clear example of how game development AAA affects the time in which it has set other games and end up doing things like the aforementioned;
I prefer that Nintendo remains as it has been doing and not get involved in the detail as do its rivals, because we have seen the situation as games end, and I have repeated earlier.
But well, If Third Partys that abandoned Nintendo with Wii U will support the NX, i hope not bother if it happens the same, even if the NX meets the expectations of the hardware, because here, the responsibility is not Nintendo, it is they themselves, and unfortunately, many prefer to give responsibility to others that one same; and somehow, we as potential consumers, we know that happens and we also know that we take part of that responsibility, but well, we'll see what happens later.
Heres the thing. 3rd party games often don't sell well on Nintendo consoles. Multiplat games that reach Nintendo consoles are often the most buggy or the worst of its kind. What Nintendo needs is more exclusive and unique 3rd party game experiences that other consoles don't offer. Resident Evil remake, RE Zero, RE4 all exclusive at first. RE4 is rated as one of the best if not THE best GameCube game. We need exclusive AAA games not sloppy ports of games that released 3 years ago. Ports are ok if they're well ported but let's get more exclusive content on Nintendo consoles. The kind of game that makes PS4 and XB1 owners go "damn I really want that game but its only on the NX. Guess I'll have to buy an NX". Imagine if FF7 remake was exclusive to NX. First there'd be a huge uproar in the Sony community but we all know a good amount of people wanted it, and if their options are either to not play it or buy NX for it, I'd wager about half of those people would buy an NX just for that game. For many people it just takes "that one game" to make someone buy a console they wouldn't have otherwise bought.
It feels like we're going to go round in circles with this starting now. BRING BACK THIRD PARTY GAMES!!! /brings them back NINTENDO SYSTEMS ARE ONLY FOR NINTENDO GAMES WTH BUY AN XBOX/PS SYSTEM FOR YOUR THIRD PARTY GAMES. Just like before. No hate for anyone who plays their sports/third party on Nintendo, I do quite often when I can, but we all know the sales became abysmal between GCN & WiiU. If they want to try and get this "itching straight beer drinking sports guy" to buy their NX, they're going to have to come in at a reasonable price and be at or above the other 2 major system competitors in system power. The fan groups they've lost are the most fickle group to get back. I'm less worried about Japanese developers coming back, because most already still support Nintendo, be it through the 3DS or with hints (or lots) of help via the Virtual Console. But the western devs are douchey and pick teams based on biases or blindly choose which system to treat their game better on, and they never choose Nintendo anymore. It doesn't mean what it use to, to be on Nintendo.
in a twist of democratization, the indies have arisen. third parties are the fickle ex girlfriends. indies are the loving girlfriends who caught nintendo when they were down. before wooing back the old fickles, give some luv to the ones that luv you back in the first place. some nintendo bucks to these indie pubs would take them to that next level.
I would like to see Nintendo Universe Characters as unlockable exclusives in UFC 2017, and WWE '17.
I think they really need to do what Sony is doing net-ing a lot of exclusivity. Street Fighter V being a PS4 console exclusive is a bigger deal, regardless of what you think of the game. Nintendo could really use the relationship and proximity it has to Japanese devs to rope in some strong third party AAA titles. Imagine if the next Mega Man, Castlevania, Sonic, were all Nintendo exclusive. It'd be the SNES and NES all over again with the big Japanese titles hitting their systems.
I don't see them getting much luck from big American publishers like EA and Activision, they sorta have a good relationship with UbiSoft so they could possibly get some deals with them.
And of course, getting more and more of their IPs on their own system. The game droughts are ridiculous on their systems, even if they do produce super quality titles. They need to use the huge dev teams they have on their side and get more titles out there. Maybe even give some Indies rights to their IPs.
Nintendo has an image problem from their own succeed. The CG was in many ways the technical leader during its generation (especially graphically) but its image as a kid company means it doesn't get the big "grown up" 3rd party titles (where they don't sell as good anyway on Nintendo's platform). Unless it's something really unique and fun i.e. like the Wii / motion support was.
@Spin Lol seeing the first reports of Street Fighter 5 sales it wasn't a big deal at all. It's hilarious seeing that huge Nintendo hate campain has backfired over the entire japanese industry.
Putting the cart before the horse.
Before we worry about games selling on NX, Nintendo needs to worry about selling NX. Marketing, marketing marketing. Advertising, advertising, advertising.
Wii was a phenomenon, sold itself by word of mouth. Wii U wasn't, it didn't sell.
I think Nintneod is going to have to see some record NX hardware sales before it can even begin to think about wooing back 3rd parties.
Of course they need to tell us what it is first.
But marketing is key. They've got their red Nintnedo badge consolidation going in stores, but they need to do more.
Something like what this guy is doing, something eye catching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1FlaATdchY
@Judgedean resident evil exclusives on GameCube! Kiddy?
It's crazy how bad Nintendo and Xbox are doing
Nobody wants bad ports if there gonna support nx release the games at the same time. And half the problem is Nintendo fans don't really care because most of the time the quality isn't there . The type of games these companies make are games you play complete and forget about, there are exceptions but on the whole meh.
The Wii U is a bit like the Windows Phone. Both are good systems but both are third, below the market leaders.
Windows Phone is a good system in a top end device but lacks apps.
I guess developers don't think it's worth converting ios and android apps for Windows Phone. Same thing with the Wii U.
Its the chicken and egg thingy: Sell more Nintendo consoles and third party games will follow 'or' if third party developers get onboard it will sell more Nintendo consoles.
Innovation is hit and miss. The DS / 3ds and Wii were hits. The Wii U and other stuff from the past were misses. Like the Windows Phone the Wii U was a good idea that did not catch on and so lost support and flopped
I hope the NX is simple, powerful, low cost, with a pro controller and games. If innovation is involved then it's 50/50 hit or miss. And with out third party support it will be a miss.
I don't agree, they don't have to be innovative they just have to be there. Have the new shiny console that plays fantastic Nintendo games and does everything the other two consoles do so Nintendo can actually compete.
@zool "I hope the NX is simple, powerful, low cost, a pro controller and games. If innovation is involved then it's 50/50 hit or miss."
So you are saying you don't want a hybrid system?
@FragRed I personally don't. It doesn't take a tech-savvy person to know that a Hybrid console would really take a chunk off the specs.
When it came to home consoles, I think Nintendo were always at their best when they focused much more on power, like the SNES era (not trying to sound nostalgic here, it's in comparison to their competitors, not where Nintendo is at now), and I honestly think they should go back to that if they want to hit marks in the next gen.
I was under the impression that THQ wasn't making games anymore.
bitleman
@Spin Lol seeing the first reports of Street Fighter 5 sales it wasn't a big deal at all.
Evo 2015 USF4 had 19 million views on Twitch over three days, Street Fighter has a very big fan base. The launch of SFV is just a stumbling block & life time sales of SFV, will probably match or out strip it's SF4 life time sales.
Like someone else has pointed out Nintendo hardest job with the NX especially if it's a console is to sell it at launch & the months/years to come successfully, if it's handheld Nintendo will not have much of a problem. But if it is a console I think Nintendo has got a lot of work to do, the Wii U failed had a lot of droughts & was dropped by 3rd parties. Now they have to convince people the NX will not go the same way, & that's going to be a very hard job to do.
@rjejr
I agree with you partly, but that's like saying people need to be interested in your restaurant before you start bringing in the food. It all goes together.
@Yorumi @Seacliff I agree. Nintendo cannot rely on power to make their consoles attractable to the gaming community. They've been slowly losing their fan base since the NES as other competitors came to the scene.
I am not saying that power isn't important because it is, especially to get any third party interest. However, Nintendo needs something more with the NX and a hybrid may just be very thing.
@Yorumi
And yet their consoles and handhelds take forever to finally kick the bucket. I'll take sturdy and reliable over powerful and easily burnt out.
Nintendo needs to make a good console to get third parties onboard. The Wii U was just mistakes after mistakes.
If the rumors are true about the NX possibly using Vulkan API, then I wouldn't worry about 3rd party support coming back to Nintendo.
@Tempestryke I see it more like NX is a (sushi/burger/steak food of your choice) restaurant where Nintendo supplies the "food" w/ 1st party titles like Zelda NX and SSB Complete and Pikmin 4 and Paper Mario NX. After the restaurant opens and is succeeding, then EA and Activision come in w/ their deserts. I just don't see any deserts showing up unless the restaurant is successful.
And yes, I realize it's a bit "catch 22" and chicken and egg problem, but that's the way I see it. I also dont' see most AAA M games and FPS games coming to NX at all. Not Destiny or Titanfall 2. If Nintendo is lucky they can get COD, but what they really need is Madden and FIFA. Maybe Star Wars Battlefront Complete. Some Squenix support - FF and DQ games - would sure be nice. I don't see Tomb Raidr coming over though. Or Watch Dogs 2 from Ubi. But the sports games do seem necessary. But I don't see them coming unless NX sells.
And I don't see NX selling unless Nintendo markets it, which is what EA wants to see, Nintendo making a huge dramatic effort to sell the thing.
@FragRed That will be a hit or miss innovation rather than a safe bet.
Unless the NX is a gamepad replacement and we use it with the Wii U and then the Wii U 2 next year.
Are there still people who think a console can succeed with no 3rd party support?
With the Wii U being such a failure I suspect Nintendo will have to go out of their way to try and get 3rd parties to support the NX, as most of them won't want to take the risk without sufficient incentive.
@Yorumi One thing I've noticed is that Japanese third party games, particularly ones from long-established series, are the ones that are far more capable of success on Nintendo in comparison to the more "modern" western games. Nintendo gamers seem much more willing to pick up Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, or Resident Evil (for example) than they would Bioshock, Mass Effect, or Assassin's Creed.
Nintendo fans love their nostalgia
Anyways, on the power topic, one thing that should be pointed out is the difference in situation with the Wii U's launch and the NX's launch:
The Wii U launched with power comparable to that of systems that were due for replacement (Xbox 360, PS3). The PS4 and XB1 aren't, and won't be for a few years. They can get away with launching a 9th gen system that's comparable in power to the 8th gen twins.
@banacheck I think having a partnership with Konami, Sega, and Capcom for classic franchises right out of the gate will help a lot of people get on board.
It isn't about getting Nintendo hardcore fans to play 3rd party games, it's about getting 'core gamers' the chance to play Nintendo games.
My friend was a PS3/PC gamer last gen, and was going to buy a VR headset for Christmas. Now with the reality dawning on him VR isn't really ready yet and a lot of money, he's curious about buying an NX instead. This will allow him to buy Nintendo quality titles (let's face it: even underpowered the Wii U has the best console exclusives AND is better than any other 3rd party studio-it just struggles to beat that combo), plus hopefully those 3rd party titles that work better on a console.
Personally I would hope for Japanese 3rd party support like Square, NIS, Capcom and Namco, but a sports game here and there plus a few beat em ups and whatever Rocksteady make next wouldn't go a miss either.
Listen Major 3rd parties got the message loud and clear over the past 4 gens.... No one buys their games on Nintendo systems.
I mean Ubisoft said they were done with AAA blockbuster games and M rated games on Wii U when Watchdogs Wii U bombed massively. Ubisoft said it confirmed it's fears that type of game isn't wanted on Nintendo systems. To be fair the Assassins Creed games also lacked content and patches on Wii U.
EA sad Madden and FIFA's bad sales at Wii U launch showed a lack of interest. Granted both games lacked modes and tons of content that the other versions had.
When Mass Effect 3 bombed on Wii U, EA said that was the final straw for their support. Granted you could get the the full trilogy at the same price on other consoles and PC a week earlier.
WB pulled the plug on Wii U for AAA Blockbuster games and M-rated games when Arkham City game bombed and Injustice DLC numbers weren't big.
WB just pulled the plug on PC/Steam over Mortal Kombat 10 selling poorly and the PC/Steam fans demanding they fix the game.
Sadly WB said they aren't going to bother to fix Mortal Kombat 10 on PC/Steam because it's not worth doing because the PC/Steam market is "hostile" and "ungrateful".
WB pointed out that PC/Steam fans weren't serious about playing Mortal Kombat 10, because they demanded refunds for the game, which is something that Playstation and Xbox gamers don't do.
Activision ended their AAA Blockbuster games and M-rated games on Wii U because no one was buying and playing the games. Though to be fair, they didn't advertise or talk about the Wii U versions. The Wii U versions also lacked content, patches and many maps.
Granted the Wii U versions had better content than the PC versions (PC versions are always way worse than the other versions).
etc...
The point is you don't see Playstation and Xbox owners complaining about broken games and lack of content and modes. They always fall into line, preordering them, and buying them.
It's rare for the owners of Playstation and Xbox to not buy a game because it's broken.
They don't even ask for refunds.
I mean if Bethesda sell millions of copies of Skyrim on PS3, despite the game being a barely playable port and not have it impact sales, then there is no excuse for Nintendo owners (the game also reviewed well on PS3).
FYI all Bethesda's game at launch are horribly buggy and broken at launch, with Fall Out 4 keeping to tradition.
It also helps that Sony and Microsoft give priority to 3rd party games and make sure they get the prime release spots.
@Xenocity you mentioned Ubisoft and Watch Dogs being the reason they quit, but I think it was actually with Black Flag and Rayman for not meeting expectations. I remember Rayman being delayed and ported since a multiplatform release would've supposedly done better but didn't even make the numbers they predicted as an exclusive. And a lot of people got fed up (myself included) when they delayed the Wii U version of Watch Dogs for 6 months because they didn't want to make non-wii u owners wait, which backtracked on their Rayman logic and consequently put a day 1 version of the game for 60 when the other versions were available for 20 during the same release week as Smash. I really don't get how they expected that one to sell.
@banacheck Yeah Ultra Street Fighter IV broke audience records at EVO. Didn't change the fact it didn't even sell 1 million all versions combined according to Capcom. EVO exposure didn't stop Guilty Gear Xrd or KOF XIII to be big flops. EVO never created a peak in sales for any game. Don't be delusional. Tomorrow we'll get the japanese numbers for SF5. They won't be good.
Man, I have to admit that I felt pretty hopeless about the NX after reading this article. I really do hope it takes off but I'm afraid the mid-cycle release may get in the way. It has to be very convincing for the NX to ship a lot of units, and I feel like gimmicks and the like won't do the trick or will just get in the way as in the Wii U. Just give us a normal controller, good hardware and keep making great games!
Unfortunately the market hasn't been too kind for Nintendo in terms of third party support and a lot of that is simply because the fan base mainly buys the systems for Nintendo games, and get a second console for third party titles. This causes the titles that are released for the system to underperform and it starts this cycle in which nobody wants to release games on the system simply because they end up competing with Nintendo's games and history has shown that it will almost certainly be a losing battle. The challenge for Nintendo is to start promoting these titles as much as they endorse their own, though I am not sure what you can possibly do about the fan base because aside from the fans on this and similar sites most people aren't thinking of Nintendo as a major player in the console race, and that is a problem that isn't easily fixed.
It's impossible for third parties to please Nintendo players, Nintendo players will just consume everything that is Nintendo without a second thought and ignore some of the more deserving games on their platform, history has shown this and it is why Nintendo has never been a good third party investment. Besides, Nintendo needs to learn we need innovations in our games, not our consoles or how we play them. Just make a powerful console with handy, unintrusive features.
Very good article.
I'm a firm believer though that this industry is no longer about the great games, but rather about unwavering marketing perfection of your brand.
Despite in my opinion, Nintendo being on top of their game with many Wiiu releases for it's franchises, it's brand is out of favour and they really need to reestablish their footprint within the area of the market that really moves hardware. It'll take time - they really need to figure out how to capture a young audience, intrigue them with software that isn't iOS or android, and transition them into long term fans.
My generation that grew up with Nintendo are in their 30s, and the generations that follow unfortunately have been part of an industry that is increasingly hype based, while great experiences have truly become of fractional importance to a console's sales.
I look at the PS4. Possibly the worst market leader in the history of gaming. Selling millions on a very lacklustre library that is barely supported by Sony itself, and that is more irrelevant than ever as it's bread and butter 3rd party stuff is cheaper and better on PC.
But it's a damn juggernaut. The playstation brand has been selling at breakneck speeds despite offering experiences that have been on a steady decline since the PS2. Bravo to the Sony ad guys.
So, will unique 3rd party games help Nintendo?
I'd like to believe so, but I doubt it. I look at the gamecube as an example.. eternal darkness, tales of symphonia, crystal chronicles, killer 7, viewtiful joe, RE4, RE0, REmake etc.... It had tad 3rd party, often quality and exclusive/ limited exclusive.
Unfortunately in an industry where branding reigns supreme, it was also purple and had a handle. That won't fly with little Timmy who wants to be part of the cool kids.
@Yorumi from what i've read, nintendo encourages indie devs to go cross-platform. the opposite of what they did for bayonetta 2. there are indie devs who choose to go nintendo exclusive with some of the best games around, not just best indie games. yet it's almost like they aren't as appreciated as they should be.
@Yorumi The problem with the N64 and Gamecube compared to it's competitors along with their unimpressive feats compared to the SNES was due to the fact they weren't marketed that well and had gapping flaws when in came to the technology at the time, despite being considered powerful consoles.
For example, N64 used cartridges, which are expensive and starting out could only hold 16 Megabytes (but increased to 64 Megabytes near the end of the console's lifespan), which is really embarrassing compared to the 650 Megabytes of a PS1 disk, which games could also have multiples disks for a single game (Final Fantasy 7 is 3 disks and is about 1.3 gigs). It's not surprising why the N64 lacked third party support.
The Gamecube had a similar problem, though not as drastic. A gamecube disk is 1.5 gigabytes while a PS2 disc was almost 5. But the Gamecube also suffered from the lack of appeal to mature games and lack of online play.
The NX being a powerful console shouldn't mean an immediate doom, it boils down to how it's powerful and how Nintendo Markets the console. Though I will admit having some kind of gimmick will help it separate itself from it's competitors along with PC gaming, I don't think being a duel console will cut it. The 3DS is already having it's own battle with Mobile gaming, even though it's cleaning the floors with a Vita.
@rjejr
Fair enough.
@Yorumi
Makes sense to me.
@Seacliff I think a big problem with the Gamecube was that it couldn't play DVD movies. That was a big selling point of the PS2.
@Dezzy It wouldn't guarantee proper optimization or content parity, though.
As the article says, we need more than lazy ports.
We need EFFORT from third parties, or it's just going to be another bubble-burster.
AAA third parties did more harm than good to the Wii U in the early run with such titles; the NX needs to avoid that kind of self-defeatist line-up.
There has been tension with third parties for years. This includes Nintendo as a company and Nintendo fans. Honestly, both sides have done a pretty terrible job of trying to find the happy medium.
In the early days of the NES and SNES, Nintendo kept a pretty tight noose around a lot of third parties. There are horror stories surrounding the Nintendo seal of quality. However, we were on the brink of the death of video game systems so they had to do something.
The N64 went a long way to alienating third parties. I really do not blame them for abandoning Nintendo. The Big N was demanding too much. One could contend, they never have had a healthy relationship since then.
However, the third parties haven't done a great job of what they have been releasing. During the Wii days, most EA stuff was crap on the sports side of things. I will never forget how awful that All Play NCAA College Football game was.
On the other hand, fans have not done a real great job of supporting third parties. Zack and Wiki from Capcom was a great Wii game that most ignored. No More Heroes was a pretty good game as well that most didn't purchase. I thought ZombiU was a real good launch game that showed a ton of potential on how to use the game pad.
At the end of the day, it certainly has me wondering what to expect from NX. I don't think EA Sports is the answer. I will agree the marketing department could do a lot more to get the word out. The marketing behind the Wii U was just awful.
@Mr_Diabolical Speak for yourself; most Nintendo players love third parties when said third parties do their games right.
Have you not seen how much Nintendo gamers love Bayonetta, despite her not originally starting out on Nintendo consoles?
They're VERY open-minded; even if they don't sell crap-tons, they still get lots of love and verbal support from the Nintendo fanbase when those third parties do their thing the right way.
The reason it seems like they don't like third parties in the here and now, is because so many third parties screwed up their chance to appeal to core Nintendo gamers on the Wii U by releasing crap ports, which by extension made a lot of Nintendo gamers lose faith in third parties in general.
I shouldn't even need to mention how they basically abandoned Nintendo during the Wii and GC eras, far as AAA multiplats go.
I think Nintendo in terms of third party titles does best with unique original games that play to the hardwares strengths. You could argue about Nintendo management being responsible all you want but that doesnt excuse the shoddy effort developers have put forth in the past mainly with Wii
@ASonic3582 Remember the Arkham Knight PC fiasco. This is partly why I prefer PC gaming next to Nintendo games. The PCcommunity may seem like a bunch of etlists but they dont hesitate to let the devs know when they screwed up big time
Which basically means they wont be comming.
Creativity and AAA-3rd Party games are like water and oil these days.
They either just port the stuff over thats on other platforms and are deemed "uncreative" or they release one experimental game that doesnt sell like Fifa on a sunny day and call it quits again because "the system wont sell".
Id be suprised if the Nintendo Stigma would suddenly be gone.
Even more so if they keep pandering to a young audience with games meant for a more adult demographic.
Nintendos main schtick is uniqueness. Its not what you play but how you play it. And that just doesnt bode well with the mass market most AAA publishers are targeting these days.
But Nintendo themselves definitly need to get far more agressive themselves. They need to actively seek out contracts for games to be made for their systems by devs, that align with their vision.
And not just indie devs.
They are already working with Namco, get the rights for an exclusive Tales game (Tales of the NeXus ?), a special version of the next Tekken ? Stuff like that.
Because if anything, Nintendo is THE platform when it comes to big exclusive titles, the thing both its competitors are lacking in. And that would be the wisest point to strike at imo.
@Wolfgabe Please don't remind of Batman, I'm still pretty salty over Arkham Origins on Wii U since it failed to keep the awesome Wii U features Arkham City had (which should've been pretty darn easy to keep given WB Montreal were the ones who came up with them to begin with) and the fact that they took my money for the season pass, failed to deliver said content due to a "lack of demand" despite the Wii U version and season pass selling better than the PC equivalents which still got the content, and didn't even refund me since Nintendo voluntarily took the hit for me and many others while greedy a** WB took my money to help the other systems get DLC. It was my final straw with those guys, and I don't see myself buying anything from them again.
@rjejr
Totally agree with both your posts.
However, I still think that the kiddie image that Nintendo loves to cultivate is a major drawback and their fanbase mainly only buy Nintendo games, not third party.
If the first third-party games don't sell well then I think we will be back to square one again. Similar to the mentioned ZombiU which triggered UbiSoft to stop developing "adult" content for the Wii U after Watchdogs.
Where are the "NX is only a handheld" people? They amuse me.
Triple-A? You better prepare, SEGA is ready, ready, ready
@Hotfusion to be fair though, ZombiU did sell well, at least, in a real world judged on realism with realistic expectations. It has sold, if I am not mistaken, significantly closer to 1 million copies than 500000, with a lot of those being in the launch window. For a cheap (let's face it Ubisoft didn't spend s*** making it in comparison to Assassin's Creed whatever) new IP for $60 on a 'niche' and small install base, that is- again remember realistic- quite good sales. I wouldn't be surprised if the gimped $20 version hasn't sold much more across Xbox, PS and PC since it released a few months back.
These companies are scum that only look after themselves, how Ubisoft can look at those figures realistically combined with the Legends and Watch_Dogs debacles and say that it's all Nintendo and Nintendo fans' fault is something only Ubisoft can answer, and their answer would be more corporate BS that I cannot understand for the life of me why people believe but they do and gobble it up regardless.
It's the same as when both Capcom and Square-Enix bemoaned the sakes of Resident Evil 6 and the Tomb Raider reboot, despite them selling several million copies each. Poor 'AAA' companies and their need to make all of the money, if only they cared I might feel a shred of sympathy for them.
Stupid corporate beasts.
Creativity doesn't sell and Red Steel 2 is great example of it.
Nintendo since N64 is pretty much a death sentence for thrid parties most of the time.
@TheLastLugie LEL at your Tomb Raider reboot comment. Educate yourself before even saying something. That game costed over 100mln $ (hundred million burgerland dallaz) to make. It can't be MORE OBVIOUS than THAT WHY they needed to sell 5 mln copies to think about the future of franchise.
bitleman
@banacheck Yeah Ultra Street Fighter IV broke audience records at EVO. Didn't change the fact it didn't even sell 1 million all versions combined according to Capcom.
In fact Street Fighter 4 life time sales are 2:93M & still selling.
If the article I read this morning is true then the NX will struggle to gain 3rd party support.
http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/nintendo-nx-secret-third-party/
http://www.craveonline.ca/entertainment/957227-developer-guarantees-nintendo-nx-wont-third-party-support
EA does not have to sell FIFA or NHL to Nintendo hardcore fans. It is pretty clear that (the most of) Nintendo hardcores do not care about "AAA" titles. Despite what many here likes to say, they do no even care about innovation and creativity, since they missed (not entirely their fault, mainly Nintendo) almost the last 10 years of video-game industry's progress (about graphics, mechanics, genre, game-play, online features). Despite keep asking for something new, top sales on Nintendo consoles are always achieved by the most "vintage" franchises. Take the Wii, were NSMBWii outsold a true innovative gem as Super MArio galaxy 29 millions vs. 11.5.... On WiiU, despite all the love, games such Bayonetta, TW101, ZombieU (the only game that really showed us how great was the gamepad) had not so enthusiastic sales numbers.
I say this not to generate flames or criticize personal tastes, but to steer the discussion towards a different point of view: EA does not have to sell FIFA, NHL or NBA to Nintendo fan. It won't success in this, Nintendo audience do not care, like they do not care about other AAA titles. It is Nintendo that has to show (with the help of third parties) to non-Nintendo gamers that NX will be a console well worth their money. Nintendo has to modernize and introduce new franchise too for them. A good step has been done with splatoon. Another one could be made by giving us a "21th century" Metroid Prime with fps/rpg mechanics, a truly open-world Zelda, some new IP that will introduce to Nintendo fans the great possibilities that relies in massive online games. This will help Nintendo hardcore fans to "open their eyes" on different genres that now they despised, closing the gap to the rest of the gaming world. On the other hand, by having on their side big AAA producers, they will also attract other gamers to Nintendo franchises, allowing them to play their favourite AAA games together with Zelda, Marion and company.
As I said in another post, with NX Nintendo definitely has to choose what it wanna be: a "vintage" glorious company catering mainly to nostalgic Nintendo fans and keep selling 10 - 20 million(being optimistic) consoles per generation or "invade" the modern gaming world with old fashion IP, brand new modern one and lot of 3rd parties, catering to everyone who really love video-games, aiming to compete with Sony (I belive MS will leave console market soon, or they will reduce xbox to a kind of steam machine)
@smashbrolink
You way overestimate how easy game development is. PS2 usually got the worst ports typically from EA. For instance, Madden on the PS2 never got 480p which was standard on Gamecube/Xbox versions. But it didn't matter people saw Madden on the shelf and bought it because they had a PS2.
Now the PS2 hardware was way weaker. But PS3/Xbox360 were stronger than Xbox/Gamecube and Madden 08 on those systems was gimped. Why? Because it takes alot of time to learn architecture. EA has a budget which isn't unlimited because new console sales are naturally limited by owners. This is the normal strategy for EA. First version is get the game working on the system. They usually cut things and and there are frame rate drops and other glitches. There are whole forumns of EA fans who will tell you to avoid the first EA game of a series until EA gets their bugs worked out. So no, bad ports on new hardware is normal and didn't effect Wii U sales. Terrible marketing did. At least 50% of the people I talk to don't know what a Wii U is and the first question is always if it's a Wii add-on.
@Flashman #78 If this is true and Nintendo want to launch NX in late 2016 early 2017 I can see an epic fiasco for the console....
Either they are completely idiots at the moment or NX won't come out till 2018....
@arnoldlayne83 There is no way they will leave the Wii U on the market for another 18 months. From everything I have read I agree with the rumours suggesting a late 2016 release.
I don't get this article. EA already proved they don't need creativity or Nintendo to sell games. So why would they want to jump on an unproven system?
It's Nintendo's job alone to sell the NX. It's EA's job to make it's investors the most profit. If Nintendo cultures an environment where EA games sell then they'll come to the NX. If NX fails it's on Nintendo.
Do people blame the failure of Wii U on Mocrosoft for not bringing the best version of Halo to the Wii U? That's silly right. Microsoft decided the best thing for them as a business was to make/sell hardware and games on their exclusive platform. You can argue it was the wrong decision for them as they've had alot of missteps and haven't been able to generate the revenue they thought they would from the market but not all business decisions work perfectly.
Much the same, EA decided to focus their games on 2 systems deciding the resources needed for the 3rd best selling system weren't worth the return they'd get. Again, you can argue it wasn't the best business decision but financially they've been much stronger recently and that's therir goal. They could care less if Wii U sells or not.
@cleveland124 I won't disagree with terrible marketing, but I don't believe for an instant that the Wii U's architecture was so horribly different and difficult to work with, that EA, with all of its experienced developers and the time they had, couldn't make ports of LAST GEN GAMES games the right way on Wii U if they had actually put serious effort into it.
And it's foolish to claim that those bad ports from various developers had no hand in lowering Wii U sales; who's going to go out for Black Ops 2 on Wii U, when it didn't even get its own DLC content, let alone all the patches?
Who was going to choose ME3 over the Trilogy that hit other consoles?
And need I even mention FIFA or Sniper Elite V2?
These were not "first games in a series" that EA was doing; these were ports that should have been worked on better, or not made at all and replaced with something worth-while.
I'm sorry, but only a blind apologist is going to absolve third parties of all responsibility for the Wii U's poor sales during its first year.
If third parties drive console sales with their software, as so many fans of third parties claim, then it's obvious that they can also have the reverse effect when the games they bring to a new console are designed poorly.
No one was going to go out to get a port of a last gen game, especially with content missing and poor optimization, on a whole new $300+ system.
I'm not over-estimating anything; I'm calling it as it is.
EA sucked during year 1 of Wii U development, and that's something they could have avoided.
Other developers could do it, and many of them have less staff and funding than EA.
Don't pin blame on Nintendo for everything EA did wrong.
Put credit where it's due, regardless of who it belongs to.
@smashbrolink the point is not how difficult was to port to WiiU, it is how many resources it took, compared to the install base and the reception level of such base.
It is true that the architecture was different and the gamepad introduced another level of complexity, matched with the fact that wiiU was only slightly superior in power to 360/Ps3....
Once EA, Ubisoft and other devs saw that sale numbers weren't on WiiU, they left the sinking ship. 3rd party games did not sell, despite being good or bad ports. I had tons of fun playing black flag (a great and in its way innovative take on AC formula) on wiiU. It was running fine, it sold 300k on WiiU compare to 4 millions on ps3. And it was released at the same time then the other versions.
Other ports like NFS Most wanted, Deus EX and Tekken tag 2 also bombed, despite WiiU's being the definitive edition....
@Flashman First off you need to realize when it comes to new hardware there is usually a certain pecking order in which devs recieve dev kits first. Considering the recent rumors it makes sense Nintendo would target major publishers and devs first before reaching out to smaller studios. Also there is a reason companies like Nintendo are highly secretive when it comes to new hardware. With a new system you have be careful about revealing too much too early and it goes to show that developers often cannot be trusted to keep their mouths shut when needed. In Nintendos case its also likely to avoid risking their ideas getting stolen or copied
@Jamotello Agreed. Many indie developers grew playing Nintendo games, and it shows in their own games. They fit Nintendo's demographic much better than, say, Splinter Cell.
I might be biased due to personal preference, but I don't see how focusing on indie titles would be a bad approach at all.
@smashbrolink Nintendo gamers took to Bayonetta because Nintendo secured it as an exclusive. Simple as that. If it wasn't an exclusive I guarantee Nintendo fans would trash it as often as they do a Ubisoft game.
Games like Titanfall or smaller titles like Child of Light are where big AAA publishers can bring something innovative or different. But games like FIFA or CoD? Forget it!
Nintendo need to have a first party killer app/game (or at least the perception of one) on launch day. The FIFA's and CoD's are more like ballast.
@TheLastLugia
"These companies are scum that only look after themselves...Poor 'AAA' companies and their need to make all of the money....
Stupid corporate beasts."
Erm. I worry this is going to come as a shock to you but these things apply to the whole industry. Including (take a deep breath) Nintendo.
@Ichiban #88
"....Another mindless button-smasher with an oversexualised protagonist. Gameplay wise is nothing new than all the other beat em up since Final Fight"...
ps: Bayonetta 2 is probably my fav game on the console...
@Dave24 And don't you see why that's a problem? Who are they planning to sell that game to? Triple A games are being crushed by their own budget, the investing makes every title a big gamble.
Of course, this impacts Nintendo collaterally. Porting those games would just make the costs go up without any guaranteed profit. Bethesda seem to be the only people that know how to reduce the risk via aggressive marketing, but they've acknowledged that their audience doesn't overlap much with Nintendo's user base. Capcom seems to be on the opposite side of the spectrum: they have strong historical ties with Nintendo, but they can't risk the gamble if they're not 100% sure it will work.
There's no easy solution for this, it's a problem that affects the economics of triple A gaming at its core.
@smashbrolink
Nintendo gamers love Bayonetta....
They're VERY open-minded....they still get lots of love and verbal support from the Nintendo fanbase"
Yes but that fanbase then goes and buys the same franchises over and over. Even quality exclusives that seem perfectly targeted towards a Nintendo audience can flop-see Rocket or Zack and Wiki for example
Ideally Nintendo would secure some third-party exclusives but that would require them getting the wallet out and funding them. Not sure that's going to happen.
@Ichiban Red Steel 2 has been mentioned both in the article and in the comment section now. Alongside it, a myriad of Wii (and GC, N64, SNES...) exclusives disprove your claims.
Marketing sells. Quality and creativity too, but not by themselves. Bayonetta 2 didn't sold millions either (estimates point to somewhere above the 1M mark), meaning it has less than a 10% attach rate. Considering the Wii U user base is composed of hardcore Nintendo gamers, that's not enough to say they embraced Bayonetta like the second coming of Jesus, or anything. It did good. Not fantastic, just good.
@electrolite77 there's a difference (or a lot of differences) between the way they go about it though. Nintendo CEOs taking pay cuts when times were rough? Nice to hear. EA constantly closing down studios when they 'fail'? Not nice to hear. Activision laying off people from their 'casual' department because the third Skylanders entry in 3 years along with the mediocre Guitar Hero reboot didn't make all of the money? Not nice to hear.
Stupid corporate beasts.
Isn't this the same discussion that happens with every Nintendo main console release? Isn't this the same issue they've had basically since the N64 or Gamecube?
Great article! And i agree 100%.
I don't want to see Nintendo fail (or any company for that matter). The pressure is definitely on for Nintendo to do the right thing of they want their games department to flourish.
@Hotfusion Is "Hotfusion" your prediction for the NX name?
I feel like Nintnedo can embrace the kiddie image and survive b/c there are always new kids in the world, and some parts of the world like China are becoming more capitalistic like the US so that market has grown. Not that they would entirely blow off older gamers - Monster Hunter is huge for them, and SSB and MK, and Splatoon sold really well, probably not all to kids, and I don't think Metroid is kiddie. But Pokemon I feel is there #1, even bigger than Mario, and now they have Yokai Watch, and Puzzle and Dragons for the "casuals". People keep saying the 100mil Wii owning casuals aren't coming back, but I don't believe that. (Probably the same people who said Trump would drop out by last November.)
One thing I feel Ntinedo may have taken away from Wii U was the incentive to go after "gamers" - "mature" "adult", whatever you want to call them. Wii U was announced as a "Gamer" console, w/ the big titles being Batman, Assassins Creed, Mas Effect 3, Darksiders, ZombiU. Sure Nintendo Land was there, but it was obvious w/ the EA "unprecedented relationship" that Nintendo was looking to bring back the gamers w/ all those AAA "gamer" titles, that was were the promotion was.
But look at Nintendo over the past year or so - 2DS console for kids, AC:Happy Home Designer, AC:amiibo Festival, amiibo in general - both toys and now cards, Metroid Federation Force, Detective Pikachu, Mario Tennis Ultra Smash. It looks to me like Ninteod wants to embrac the Nintndo market, nto all kiddie, but Idon texpect NX to launch w/ anyhting "gamers" want to play as the focus. "GAmers" being a bad coice of word, as Pikmin 4 adn Zelda NX fans would be annoyed, but its the best I have.
Point is, I can see Ntineod embracing their outsider "2nd console" status and trying to exist as a separate entity from PS4 and Xbox One. But going after kids and casuals it's all about price and portability, it needs to be small and cheap, that's what worked for Wii. I do think they need Madden and FIFA, but not Destiny, Titanfall 2, Mortal Kombat or maybe even COD. Rocket League would be really nice, as would Star Wars Battlefront. But I think the NX emphasis, both hardware and software, will be Nintendo first and foremost. The console will be called "Nintendo Something", and they will emphasize "Nintendo" every time somebody who works there says it. It will never be "Fusion", it will always be "Nintendo Fusion". And for a lot of people that will be equated w/ "kiddie".
@Dave24 well then mabye don't spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on making Lara's hair as 'realistic' as it was and budget better?
It's the same tripe garbage 'logic' like this that the 'AAA' companies use to justify microtransactions and season passes:
"Oh woe are we, we spent millions & millions on our rehashed rubbish making it look pretty, but only you can help the series survive by pre-ordering the special edition, getting the season pass and buying into our freemium currency.
What's that? Budgeting, is that something we can exploit? Can't hear you properly over the noise being made to make Batman's cape move properly".
Get out of here dude, don't tell me you buy their rhetoric.
Nintendo fans do not support 3rd parties, regardless of what they do, except for the following: Painfully pander to Nintendo fans by gratuitously including Nintendo characters and elements, talk openly about how mega-awesome Nintendo is despite any counter reality, and make the game super exclusive. Even then, success is entirely a crapshoot.
Nintendo fans began their long-standing abandonment of 3rd party products on the N64, and this attitude has been inherited for generations. Sales of 3rd party games on the GameCube always paled to the Xbox, despite equivalent overall hardware sales. Sales of any 3rd party game are all but totally guaranteed to be lower on any Nintendo hardware than anywhere else. Hell, even my team's game sold vastly better on Steam than on the Wii U, and we did way more marketing and review effort on the Wii U. Simply because it wasn't from Nintendo.
The third parties know this, and as such, any game made for Nintendo is going to be a port, and likely with features removed or gimped to save money because they know full well they likely won't make their money back. Nintendo fans then use this as yet another convenient "pat ourselves on the back" excuse to not support 3rd parties without understanding the reasoning behind it. There will be calls that the "Nintendo version is missing features" as if that would have mattered. Even games given extra features sell far worse on Nintendo hardware than elsewhere, and this has been the case for 4 generations. Several games on Nintendo consoles over the years have had Nintendo-exclusive features, but sales still didn't go anywhere.
On the other end of the "gimped 3rd party" offering is an issue Nintendo fans love to ignore, and that's that Nintendo has, in recent generations, repeatedly failed to deliver generation-equivalent hardware, which automatically forces gimped third party games. Expensive cartridges, tiny game disks, lack of harddrive, weak online infrastructure, lack of online features, weak player profiles, no Achievement system (a standard on PS, XB, and Steam), awkward controllers, limited and weaker hardware, lack of major engine support, etc. Each and every one of these work against 3rd parties almost guaranteeing that no 3rd party port will actually be better than the versions on other platforms.
It harkens back to the stuffy old Nintendo of the 80's that VERY DELIBERATELY worked against third parties because the number one thing Nintendo fears is fair competition. And this is unbelievably depressing.
Nintendo fans buy this hardware for Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and some other secondary franchises where the Nintendo logo is slapped on the front. Nothing else. EA shouldn't bother, and neither should anyone else. For these reasons, Nintendo should just be 3rd party themselves, if they can't make a truly competitive console that is going to feature a robust overall library. A lot of gamers would love to play Nintendo games--but no longer want to buy the hardware. NX is starting from a losing position, one created by Nintendo and their "supportive" core fanbase. An environment hostile towards 3rd parties, and ever diminishing industry importance.
Now: Cue the angry Nintendo fanboys with their "totally justified" reasons for never supporting 3rd party games.
>You have a system that struggles to sell
>You have a gimmicky controller which demands extra work
>You have a lower specs hardware
Then you expect AAA titles rather than half-assed ports? Really?
@Marce2240 to whoever wants to buy it. TR 2013 sold 8,5 mln copies, so...
@TheLastLugia LEL again. If you really think it's about exploiting budget with AAA, you're out of your mind and lost that little shroud of credibility you have on the matter and don't even know how companies as big as SE work. Or real life for that matter.
I don't even know what point you try to make with your blabbering - that indies are not rehashes (KS proves you couldn't be more wrong), that they don't exploit the budget (like Double Fine did), or people don't want rehashes (real life proves you couldn't be more wrong) ?
You're not even forced to buy season passes and your painfully generic Batman mention proves the point - when it's so sh#tty, then why even consider it? LEL.
DLC is easier to prolong the game and make money with less effort and money thrown in, be it Witcher or bugthesda.
I vaguely recall seeing someone post on Nintendo life "Give me a good Fifa game for once, Nintendo!" and I responded with "Why are you even playing that kind of game on a Nintendo console? Get that on Xbone or PS4."
My bad~ xD
@Yorumi
I think the main thing your post is missing is the fans are going to be a constant hurdle. It seems incredibly absurd for Nintendo fans to request special treatment and specific pandering from 3rd parties, when you don't hear that crap from Sony, Valve, or Microsoft fans.
That doesn't make Nintendo appealing to me as a place to release my game. That tells me, to be perfectly blunt, that Nintendo fans are babies that need special treatment, and everyone else is a gamer or gaming consumer that is just happy to have the variety. This "turn up their noses at 3rd parties" attitude has been a defining feature of Nintendo fans for way, way too long.
At this point, I'm not sure what would be accomplished by Nintendo forming closer relationships with 3rd parties. Their fans still turned up their noses at Tekken Tag 2 and Ninja Gaiden 3, for instance. Rayman Legends still faltered at retail, and so did Zombi U. In the end, those third parties will still get the shaft.
And in the end, I fully expect the NX to be less powerful than the PS4 and XBO, and saddled with some gimmick that ultimately harms the end product.
@lilith
I've been a gamer and Nintendo fan since the NES, way back in the olden days. I've been a part of the Nintendo fanboy fervor, and lived right to seeing how damaging it is to the company.
During the N64 days, Square was seen as an enemy to be hated for "abandoning" Nintendo to go where they would actually be able to make money on the games they wanted.
The N64 started this trend that "all 3rd party on Nintendo is terrible" for two reasons:
The N64 was a crappy console that was extremely difficult, limited, and expensive to work on. As such, many 3rd parties simply ignored the console, and what few that did stick around, often delivered sub-par products due to the difficulty of development. Nintendo couldn't be bothered to make a quality machine.
Secondly, because of the vacant 3rd party offerings, Nintendo was forced to largely carry the console by themselves, and the most memorable games came from them and Rare--and almost no one else. This caused Nintendo fans to rally around Nintendo in a new identity. Not as a "console maker," but as some kind of underdog that everyone treated badly.
Note, Nintendo wasn't actually treated badly. They had two generations prior where they were the industry bullies to third parties and competitors. Nintendo famously threw Sega under the bus during the "video game violence hearings," rather than standing together as an industry. However, Nintendo had developed a glaring ego and hubris, and the N64 was ultimately a dud, dead a year before it's successor even appeared (conversely, the PS1 sold strongly for a literal decade). Nintendo made their bed, and were forced to sleep in it.
Prior to the N64, Nintendo was no different from Sony or Microsoft now--a console maker, whose consoles were sold for their third party libraries as much as 1st party. Starting with the N64, the company's identity changed, and their fans began to form a fanbase starkly different from the rest of the industry. See my post to Yorumi above.
Fans rally hardest when what they love is suffering the worst, and Nintendo fans have gotten more vocal and angry towards differing opinions over the years as the company has lost ground--and outside of the flukes of the Wii and DS (which found fame on a fad), each new console generation sells worse than the one before. I predicted about 2 years ago that, according to then-current sales, the Wii U would top out at somewhere around 12.5-15 million in overall sales. My lower estimate of 12.5 looks like it's going to be about correct.
This is a complex situation, far more than Nintendo fans--and you'll find this exact rhetoric on this site frequently--like to think. Nintendo fans can easily be found dismissing all 3rd party games as the same shooter, thinking they're all crap because they're not Nintendo, or having reality-ignoring beliefs that everything from Nintendo is higher quality than anything from anyone else. Yes, even Wii Play and Pokemon Rumble U.
There's a lot more ground to cover in this.
@Dave24 when did I mention indies? And you missed my point about budgets, I'm saying that if they want sympathy for the games that 'fail' then the first place they should look at is the budget, same is true for any company or individual looking to succeed in business. Dark Souls came out not long before those aforementioned games, it was a success almost instantaneously at 'only' 2 million copies sold in its first year or so. Sure it eventually had DLC but that was after the game already made a profit, as it should be. Why are games like these the exception, rather than the rule? Why are 'AAA' companies unable to just sell us a product without the noise of pre-order bonuses, season passes and microtransactions? Because they need to to make a profit on the original game? Well then that ain't my problem, and it shouldn't be yours either.
Budget better, focus on selling me your $60 product and don't treat me like I'm some sort of cow that needs milking endlessly. Do that and they have my respect, since that isn't the case that's why they don't.
Hope I've demonstrated my stance well enough that you don't resort to insults or 'LEL's. Kind patronising at this point.
@lilith
I actually really enjoyed Zombi U, and sadly, it's still about the best game on the console to show it off, gimmick-wise. Our game got generally positive reviews, and just plain went unnoticed. The Steam version outsold the Wii U version in about an hour.
All new consoles get ports. It's been that way since the Dreamcast, which launched with ports of PS1 games. It's always a bit disappointing, but it's smart business--a way for devs and publishers to become familiar with the hardware and make a bit of extra cash for the first fully next-gen titles. Nintendo fans are the only ones you'll ever see taking this personally, quite literally making statements along the lines that 3rd parties did it on purpose, apparently, because they don't want to make money and they want Nintendo to fail. And yes, these have been serious statements.
The Wii U's failure means that the majority of it's supporters are likely this very type of Nintendo fan, with many of us older ones tired of the BS with the company and other fans. And worse, even if they're the minority, the vocal ones dominate places like this online, skewing perspective. Nintendo fans look like whiny, entitled brats who want special treatment.
I like Yorumi, and his post highlights this--that 3rd parties need to find some special way to pander to Nintendo fans. On any other console, they just have to make compelling games. That's not enough for Nintendo fans, apparently, who would only ever buy a Samurai/Dynasty Warriors game if it was skinned in Zelda characters.
Then, there's the whole quality argument. Those that do pander to them get support regardless of quality--sometimes. Third parties are called "uncreative" and "boring" for sequels and remakes, while Nintendo is celebrated for the exact same things. What part of Mario Kart Wii or Mario Kart 8 was truly new or unique? I bought Mario Kart 8, ready to give the franchise another chance. It was ultimately the same game I played on the GameCube. That franchise does not evolve.
Nintendo themselves do nothing but send mixed signals. One one hand, defending an under-powered console and downplaying the need for more horsepower, but then following with statements like their support of DKC on the Wii U with fundamentally silly notes: Talking up that the Kongs have fur now because technology! Look at the power!
The point here, is that third parties are not to blame, first and foremost. First, Nintendo is to blame for substandard hardware and poor 3rd party relations. Then the fanbase is to blame for creating an environment hostile toward 3rd parties.
Oh hell, I just remembered this: https://overdeepgeek.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/the-vicious-cycle-of-a-nintendo-console-part-1-of-2/
@TheLastLugia Dark Souls is a game barebones as it can be. If everyone was thinking like you, we would still be playing games like this
Also probably horse with buggy etc.
Oh wait, you love some of those EVUL gamz. Sorry, my bad. Or you don't know what you want.
And you wonder about LEL, when you say lulzy things that can be summed up like "U TOTALLY FORCED TO BUY SEASON PASS OR PREORDER!1111oneoneone MUH H4T00Rzzz".
You are not forced to even look at it. It's that simple, and yet you act like tool "the evul publishers" use, like you MUST buy ANYTHING and everything. You can just ignore it. I know, sounds amazing and outlandish.
How SE and TR 2013 fits in your argument I don't know, because it made money back. It even spawned a sequel! So yeah... It turns out they planned out the budget fine.
I love your full of hypocrisy "Well then that ain't my problem, and it shouldn't be yours either". Well, if it's not your problem, then why you make a big deal out of it? Just buy what you want. Done.
@Yorumi
Nintendo fans do however buy Derivative Game 947 with the same regularity as any other segment of the population. The thing is, they only care about one publisher: Nintendo.
Mario Kart 8 was a derivative. It was flashy graphics for the exact same game that we've played for generations. Zelda games have been of the same basic mold since Ocarina.
My point was that only Nintendo gamers demand that special attention. Not Sony gamers, not Microsoft gamers. Steam gamers generally just want a multiplatform game that actually works, but other than that, they do not make specific demands. They just want to play games.
Nintendo gamers demand special attention.
Other than that, I agree that sequelitis and derivatives are a problem, but not just with gaming, with everything. All of this media costs absurd fortunes to make these days, so everyone--gaming, movies, television, etc., is more focused on franchise-building than new concepts. The cost makes actual new concepts risky. Nintendo is no different in this--they are arguably more risk-averse than anyone out there, and more keen to play it safe. Remember how close we came to Splatoon being yet another Mario game.
In all of this stuff, I tend to jump franchises and interests. I never stick with one thing for too long, and later I come back so it's fresh again. The problem with Nintendo is a bigger fear of new games or ideas than anyone else. On the Wii, they certainly threw around a lot of new IPs. Too bad most of it was of the "Wii Whatever" concept.
@lilith
I've discussed Nintendo's ecosystem, if you will elsewhere, and I think there is incredible value to be found in their software. And almost no value at all in their hardware --before you throw around sales of the 3DS as some kind of proof, say nothing if you bought the system more than once, as I have reason to believe wholly half the sales of that system are to pre-existing owners. Let he/she who has purchased no more than one 3DS cast the first "3DS super seller" stone.
The Wii did show us something: Nintendo's software will sell--so long as the hardware has a large audience. The N64, GC, and Wii U have shown that, by and large, people no longer want to buy Nintendo's hardware.
I want Nintendo's games to reach the audiences they deserve. Which is why I would like to see them just go 3rd party. Imagine Splatoon's sales had it appeared on the PS4, XBO, and Steam. Nintendo would have a powerful game with an audience it deserves.
People are sick of Nintendo's hardware. The industry is sick of the hardware. Third parties are sick of the hardware. I'm sick of it, and it's been a part of my life for 25 years. Nintendo is better as a software company, and I think we can all see that. But I'll say it out loud (per se). The difference is that I want to see them spread to more people. Nintendo fans want them to continue this marginalizing toward irrelevance just because they want another console with little to offer. Nintendo fans apparently care more about hardware than software, or they'd want the company to go third party, too.
If they did it right, they'd be the most valuable commodity in gaming. Instead of what they are now--the most irrelevant.
@Project_Dolphin
If the hardware is part of Nintendo's games, then surely you can explain why the Wii U had to exist for Mario Kart 8 to exist.
And that is exactly the problem. Most of Nintendo's own games fail to live up to the lofty promises of their hardware. Put Mario Kart 8 on any other platform, and it would play identically--probably better on XBO or PS4, actually, given the more robust and seasoned online infrastructures.
What did Donkey Kong Country do that could only be done on the Wii U? Besides not use the GamePad at all.
How about Wii mega-title, Mario Galaxy? What were the special Wii-features that made that game impossible elsewhere? The spin attack could have easily been done with a button, and the collecting star bits was basically added just to justify the Wii Remote.
There is nary a single Nintendo game that could not be done on any other hardware with relative adjustments. The Wii didn't change the industry. The only long-lasting influence it had was to make everyone hate motion controls. The Wii U has had zero impact on the creativity of the rest of the industry.
So, by all means, explain why Mario Kart 8 could only exist on the Wii U.
@Dave24 8.5 million hardly means anything when you need to sell 7 million to make a profit. That kind of business model is becoming all the more common with established franchises (again, Capcom), and it's not doing the market any favors.
@Xenocity "FYI all Bethesda's game at launch are horribly buggy and broken at launch, with Fall Out 4 keeping to tradition."
I agree with you 100% on this. As much as I love the Fallout and Elder Scrolls series, they are always incredibly buggy. Aside from all the frozen screens and times my game failed to load, my dog in New Vegas just disappeared one day and never came back. I guess it was a common bug because I googled the issue, tried their "elevator trick" as a fix, but it didn't work. All I ever heard from Bethesda was how difficult it was to make those massive games without any bugs. Well, Nintendo/Monolith crapped all over that theory with XCX. I'm over 150 hours in and I haven't experienced one bug. I do think that's part of the 3rd party problem as well... Nintendo games have a tendency to make other games look bad from a programming standpoint.
@smashbrolink
Absolutely third parties can drive console sales I never said otherwise. I said it's not their job to sell Nintendo hardware and thus they don't share any of blame for the failure. I mean it's not like you are ever going to hear the EA CEO apologize to it's shareholders for not investing enough in the Wii U to make it successful. Because their investors don't give a crap whether Wii U is successful or not.
It was already touched on before but I'll just reiterate here. When I said series first I meant the first game on a system. IE the 1st Madden on any system is usually gimped. It's because they know the userbase isn't big enough to generate the sales that would support the resources to make it great.
@arnoldlayne83 That doesn't hold up as an excuse when the XBone started out with similarly low sales yet third parties still made games for it in scores.
Similarly, the differences in architecture didn't make them abandon the PS3 despite the higher resource requirements.
Either way you slice it, third parties didn't have a valid excuse for not doing their own games better on Wii U.
@cleveland124 It's their job to make games that will sell consoles, because its those consoles that will provide them with their livelihood in the gaming industry.
It's ridiculous to absolve them of all blame when it's the low quality of their games that makes people not want a system, especially when third parties are KNOWN for making games that drive console sales.
And to the latter point, you're kidding right?
The first Madden should NOT BE GIMPED.
The first FIFA should NOT BE GIMPED.
I cannot believe you're actually trying to use that as an excuse.
If that's EA's norm, then EA needs to BREAK THAT NORM WITH THE NX.
Full stop, no exceptions, no excuses.
@Ichiban No we wouldn't, because in case you hadn't noticed, many Nintendo gamers these days are also multi-console owners who have played Bayonetta on PS3 or 360, and were excited by the prospect of her game hitting the Wii U primarily because they were fans of the first.
On a side note, I'd be giddy as all heck to see DMC hit the NX.
@smashbrolink
It's EAs job to sell software, not hardware in any sense of the imagination. If all hardware was failing and EAs livelyhood was at stake then you could argue they need to sell hardware. But as it stands there are two strong hardware players in the market and their userbase eats up EA games. So if EA has a market, why do they need to create a competing market?
The first Madden is ALWAYS gimped and other userbases buy it anyways.
Vita Madden 13 is Madden 12 with Roster Updates
Wii U Madden 13 is Madden 12 with Roster Updates
Here's from a review of Madden 25 for PS4 - "Let's make this clear from the outset: this is not a brand-new game, but rather the "director's cut" of the title that released a few months back. Those expecting a whole new "Madden" will be disappointed, but look a little deeper and there's much to discover."
I.E. it's madden 25 from the PS3 with some graphical updates.
Look up the list of features missing from Madden 07 for the 360, it's laughable.
These games are good, but not great. It's clear you don't play EA games and don't want them so maybe you shouldn't pretend like you know the normal cycle of development for them.
@electrolite77 Wait, are you really trying to use the rehash argument?
Don't even go there.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/10599539_741015199299996_8107918946113821666_n.jpg?oh=6804b57876da9f2bbbc8eb2c7c142629&oe=577006E9
Players on other consoles are just as guilty of focusing on the same games over and over every single gen.
Or have you ignored CoD's place atop charts?
As for games that deserve sales not getting them from the fanbase, it was the same thing back when Bayonetta 1 launched as well; they had close to a hundred million consumers to sell that game to between the PS3 and 360.
It sold less than 3M between them.
That's a sad and sorry attach rate that made none of the console makers want to support a sequel.
Except for Nintendo, who swooped in and gave them 100% of the funds needed to make it a reality when no one else wanted to.
@cleveland124
You'd be wrong, because I love the Mass Effect series to death, and I expect EA to do better.
The amount of players they already have supporting their livelihood on other consoles doesn't change the fact that they are one of the parties responsible, alongside the rest of the big name AAA's and Nintendo themselves, for influencing public perception of the quality of the games library on the Wii U, and the same will go for the NX once its released, if EA does jump in and try anything.
For the sake of their own reputation [which directly influences their own sales] if nothing else, they NEED to stop making the same mistakes on Nintendo consoles, because they CAN drive sales when they do things right.
And when they do things wrong, they contribute to the hardware failing to sell.
It's in EA's best interest to be a hardware unit mover, because that equates to more players playing their games across more consoles than before, meaning they get to continue profiting bigger and bigger with each new success.
They shouldn't use the past as an excuse; if they can make other systems sell off of their games, they could do the same with Nintendo.
As for the quality of EA's beginning games on other systems?
Just because "The first Madden is ALWAYS gimped and other userbases buy it anyways." doesn't mean that Nintendo fans should be the same kinds of mindless sheep that support that kind of BS.
Let the people who are used to it continue to fall for it; it isn't wrong to expect better of EA before sales are given.
Just like people are going to expect better of Nintendo, before the NX is given sales.
@smashbrolink
I'm wrong because you love Mass Effect and want it on a Nintendo console? I don't really find that to be a convincing argument.
There was really nothing wrong with the quality of Mass Effect 3. They just released a compilation on another system so that shouldn't stop your enjoyment of Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U.
Dare I say it benefited EA when the Wii U failed because they didn't have to invest resources in a third platform and split their market?
Here's the thing. If you want EA to be the hardware mover for the NX then you need to pay them to invest the resources in it and make sure they make a profit. EA isn't a charity and they shouldn't be expected to be one.
@smashbrolink That goes to show how well Bayonetta 2 sold, which is pretty poorly, the fanbase that spawned from the original Bayonetta would have surely fueled the second one to sell better, but it's exclusivity drove it in a deeper hole, a shame too because it's a great game. If the verbal outcry for Bayonetta is as good as you say, I don't understand why people wouldn't buy it. Like a character just because she's in Smash Bros and never play a single game, that's basically the story of all third party characters in Smash. And as far as crap ports go, a lot of them weren't too bad. The Batman ports were shameful though, the two CoD games there were on Wii U were pretty well ported, but the lack of DLC and a playerbase doesn't make them too worth it.
@smashbrolink
"As for the quality of EA's beginning games on other systems?
Just because "The first Madden is ALWAYS gimped and other userbases buy it anyways." doesn't mean that Nintendo fans should be the same kinds of mindless sheep that support that kind of BS."
Separate quote just because I think this attitude ignores the difficulties of supporting a new platform. Certainly I think the EA employees worked as hard as they could to deliver the best experience they could on these games. If you choose not to buy them, that's fine but there's no need for a boycott because you think a game should be better. It's that kind of thinking that will make EA think twice about supporting Nintendo in the future.
Also, just to highlight. From my past research, I gathered that an average xbox game cost about 8 million to develop versus an average xbox 360 game about 30 million. Not really sure about the growth today but I'm sure it's still growing for retail discs. And who knows when EA actually got a 360 development kit? So they still had their Xbox/PS2/Gamecube teams working to add things to Madden 07. To do Madden 07 right, they would have had to add 4x the staffing of their Xbox staff, maybe more if they didn't get the kits in time. That's really impossible to do and certainly finding that many people will add to all sorts of organizational issues. So Madden 07 for the Xbox 360 was probably the worse first version because of the drastic expanse to the HD era. They got it working and improved it drastically with subsequent years. What you are asking is impossible.
@cleveland124
"There was really nothing wrong with the quality of Mass Effect 3. They just released a compilation on another system so that shouldn't stop your enjoyment of Mass Effect 3 on the Wii U."
That's dumb and you know it.
It didn't release with all of its DLC content, for one, and the comic book used at the beginning doesn't convey the same sense of bonds and intimacy that playing through the original two and carrying over your data does, plus it made figuring out certain scenarios to enable certain outcomes in the storyline much more complicated.
It was an inferior port.
Full stop.
Don't even TRY to defend it.
"Dare I say it benefited EA when the Wii U failed because they didn't have to invest resources in a third platform and split their market?"
You can dare as much as you like, but it'd be stupid to believe it.
It wouldn't be splitting their market, it would be growing it.
The loyalists are so used to EA by now that they'd come back with just a little bit of catering, but it takes more than that to win over a new fanbase on a new console.
There shouldn't be an excuse for not trying harder.
"Here's the thing. If you want EA to be the hardware mover for the NX then you need to pay them to invest the resources in it and make sure they make a profit. EA isn't a charity and they shouldn't be expected to be one."
Here's the thing; even a charity knows that you shouldn't try giving away tank tops to Eskimos, let alone tank tops with holes in them.
Nintendo's no more a charity than EA is, and EA should be held responsible for the mistakes in their own games.
Nintendo has every right to demand better of EA, just as Nintendo's fans, and hell even EA's own fans, do.
EA is no more of a super special snowflake than Nintendo; they need to pull their own weight by putting out the right games, the right way, and if they can't do that then they shouldn't claim to be a AAA that carries consoles.
"Separate quote just because I think this attitude ignores the difficulties of supporting a new platform. Certainly I think the EA employees worked as hard as they could to deliver the best experience they could on these games. If you choose not to buy them, that's fine but there's no need for a boycott because you think a game should be better. It's that kind of thinking that will make EA think twice about supporting Nintendo in the future."
See, here's the thing about that; making your own games with CONTENT PARITY should be a priority that development difficulties shouldn't be holding back.
ESPECIALLY ON LAST GEN PORTS.
I'm not ignoring anything on this issue; I'm calling it how it is.
EA has made a ton of really stupid mistakes that no amount of "development difficulties" covers for.
Quit excusing them. They did not "try their best".
If they had, the ports of last gen games would have been equal in content, at the very least.
At best, they would have foregone ME3 and put out the collection for all consoles at once, instead.
THAT would have been a best effort, a CONSOLE SELLING effort, an effort that shows EA actually gave a damn about making their name KNOWN AND WELL BOUGHT on the Wii U.
They didn't do that.
And if they can't do it on the NX, THEY DESERVE TO FAIL.
Nintendo gamers shouldn't have to accept mediocrity in multiplats from EA just because EA's defenders and sheeple do so on every other console.
It's a frankly stupid expectation to make of any new fanbase that you're trying to appeal to and make money off of.
" Long spiel about dev budgets
What you are asking is impossible."
No, it really isn't, because times have changed, and asking a well-known and very rich publisher to DO THEIR OWN GAMES THE RIGHT WAY REGARDLESS OF SYSTEM, in a time when all systems are HD, isn't impossible.
Especially now, if the NX does turn out to be built similarly enough to others for EA to put their games on it with literally no effort.
Hell, last gen with the Wii U, the developers behind Need for Speed: Most Wanted put out a quote stating specifically that they were able to get their PC port of the game running on the Wii U, quote, "with the flick of a switch".
Now, keep in mind, this was near the beginning of the console's life span, when the system was still supposedly "harder" to develop for.
Things have changed DRASTICALLY since then; people have figured the system out, and there is no longer any excuse for not including content that other versions also get.
This holds doubly true for the NX, since it is basically guaranteed to be more powerful than the Wii U.
If EA isn't willing to put out their games in a form that shows they are trying their best to make their games system sellers, then they shouldn't be trying to sell on Wii U.
There are other third parties out there that will try much harder than EA, so if EA can't step up, they should step off.
And they should take their apologists with them.
@Mr_Diabolical
The attach rate for Bay 2 compared to that of the PS3 and 360 is miles better, even below that 1M mark.
The reason it didn't sell better is because of console war soldiers and their loyalties.
Many of them weren't so much fans of Bayonetta as they were fans of the systems Bayonetta appeared on, which was evident by the way they automatically assumed it would be a sucky game just because it was on Wii U instead of on their systems of choice.
I'm fairly confident that, at this point, there's more love for Bayonetta amongst Nintendo fans than anywhere else.
It's that confidence and fan appreciation that will make future games starring her appearing on Nintendo systems all the more likely.
@Quorthon I think we should wait to see what the NX is first before we claim they should go third party. Besides, I don't think anyone would like a 3rd party Nintendo. There has never been a company who maintained their quality of software after they left the hardware business. Not Atari, not SNK, and definitely not Sega. Unless Nintendo can prove otherwise, going third party is probably the worst thing they can do right now.
@smashbrolink
Oh good grief. Really, 'ner, ner, look what other consoles owners do'. Don't even go there.
I was specifically replying to a post lauding how open minded Nintendo gamers are and pointing out that the numbers simply don't agree. Nintendo did well to find Bayo 2, but over 90% of Wii U owners didn't care.
@electrolite77
Oh please. Don't start telling me not to go there when I was just calling you out on the statement you started with, which basically amounted to the same "ner, ner".
The "numbers" are the least important thing when compared to its critical reception from fans.
You don't have to purchase a game to recognize whether or not it's great and deserves praise, and even those that haven't gotten Bay 2 on Wii U frequently recommend it.
But if you really want to play the numbers game, less than 5% of the total available console base [PS3 and 360] for the first game even gave the first Bayonetta game the time of day.
Hell, more than a few just called it "discount Devil May Cry" and passed it off as worthless.
That was not the case with Bay 2 on Wii U, and her popularity has only grown with her inclusion in Smash.
It's a fact at this point that Nintendo gamers value Bayonetta as a franchise much more than you're giving credit for, and that on the whole, they're willing to recommend a game so long as it's done right, even if they're wary of third parties and won't always buy them right off.
But all of that is really beside the point; EA's got a lot more to prove to Nintendo gamers than Platinum does at this point.
I fully agree with the article on this one; it isn't business smart of EA to try relying on easy ports with the NX.
Not if they want to launch into big sales from the get-go with the system.
@smashbrolink
"The "numbers" are the least important thing when compared to its critical reception from fans."
I really should have stopped reading there. I mistakenly thought this could be a serious discussion. Here's an idea, nip over to Capcom HQ and ask them to gamble on funding and developing exclusive games for NX. Your pitch can be 'yeah I know Zack and Wiki flopped horribly but look I've got a print out of some Nintendo fans saying really nice things about it on the internet'. Let me know how you get on....
@electrolite77
"I really should have stopped reading there. I mistakenly thought this could be a serious discussion."
This coming from the guy who tried using the rehash argument?
I'm sorry, but no. At this point you're practically taking the words right out of my mouth.
Before EA can even think of making big money with their sports titles on the NX, they've got to present games that would make Nintendo gamers want to support them.
FIFA isn't going to cut it.
They need to present games that will generate a huge positive critical reception, games that will boost interest in both the games and the system itself, before they can expect lesser-known or less popular titles to gain any sort of ground, let alone anything that doesn't match the audience they've been screwing over for the past few gens.
The same goes for Capcom; Zack and Wiki had almost no chance of getting anyone's attention on Wii U when Capcom's been basically shoving their middle finger at everyone, not just Wii U owners, lately.
They'd have to come up with something much better than that to regain attention.
Point blank: No one is going to buy an NX for the next FIFA roster upgrade.
Anyone thinking that's the kinds of games it'll take for EA to matter on NX, is delusional to the point of laughable.
Full stop.
@smashbrolink
You really need to be less emotional. Games are meant to be fun and EA makes fun games. They are flawed as all games are. There is no perfect game. EA games are very easy to pick up. And if you liked them you'd either own Sony/Microsoft system already.
If you can't enjoy a game because there may be better value elsewhere than you probably shouldn't play games at all. Most games with get a compilation/remaster or there will be a 90% off steam sale.
I never said Nintendo was a charity. Sometimes you have kind of silly arguments. Can Nintendo demand Walmart make NX games? No, they are seperate comapnies and Nintendo has no control over Walmart. In the same respect Nintendo has no control over EA. Nintendo can not allow EA a license to make games for their systems if they want. But they can't force EA to develop jack squat.
How old are you? Do you have a job? Im just asking because your need to do it right no matter the cost mentality. It's easy to tell others they don't do a good job at there work, I'm wondering how you do at your work. I'm just wondering if you refuse to sleep until you can drive excellence at your company into levels never reached before. To ensure this you spend countless hours outside of work to make sure it's done right. That's you right?
@Marce2240 5 mln is even - any number beyond is profit. And that 8,5 mln was Q1 2015, so by now there's probably 9 or more.
@smashbrolink That's a lie, maybe people don't want to buy a $300 console for one game they're interested in.
@Dave24 You are missing the point.
@Marce2240 You don't know what you're talking about.
@Dave24 No, you are assuming things. I've never said the current business model is not profitable. I'm saying that, on the event that a triple A game doesn't cover its costs, the losses would be greater than they really need to be. You can't just discredit a completely plausible scenario just because the example you've picked didn't happen to follow it, dead triple A franchises exist for a reason.
@Marce2240 Both RE6 and TR2013 made profit - just didn't meet estimated sales as fast as they wanted.
You said this "8.5 million hardly means anything when you need to sell 7 million to make a profit" when in reality, they needed to sell 5 mln to cover it (8,5 mln - 9 mln is around double the budget). There is no missing the point in that.
There is of course scenario of breaking camel's back and going overboard with budget to the point of no return and losing the money, but as of now, they are planning budgets fine with few exceptions that still make some money.
Still the scenario of massive loses looks more like far future.
@Dave24 Your post boils down to 'these two games made even, so it's completely impossible for a triple A game to crash and burn'. You're arguing against a nonexistent point with those examples. I was never talking about the Tomb Raider reboot, that was an example you brought to the table. I've always been talking about the scenario you acknowledge in your second paragraph.
@Project_Dolphin
Explain why flicking your wrist is somehow more creative or a better way to do an attack than pressing a button. Nintendo shoe-horned in just enough simple motion elements in Mario Galaxy to give the impression of justifying the Wii, while not actually doing anything creative that might have damaged overall quality.
You also did not explain why the Wii U was necessary for Mario Kart 8 to exist, or why it could never work on any other current platform.
@TheMisterManGuy
SNK was an arcade company for the most part, not a console maker. Their consoles existed mostly just to benefit their arcade arm and for a kind of "elite" marketplace.
Atari and Sega both saw quality drops because they went third party too late, after too much money had been lost and too much damage done.
Nintendo needs to go third party before they reach that point, or they will suffer in the same manner. If they went third party now, while they still have money and clout, they'd transition on their own merits.
This argument that Nintendo needs to make hardware to make quality games is pathetic--let's just admit that now. That means Nintendo is a company that thrives, not on goals of quality, but on desperation to have products to sell hardware. Lots of companies churn out quality games without hardware being dependent on them.
This idea that Nintendo would be incapable of sustaining quality by going third party is telling of Nintendo fans--they do not have confidence in the company. They don't think the company could survive in an open market (Nintendo does have a history of avoiding competition), they don't think the company can make quality games without being forced, and they don't have confidence in Nintendo in general. That is precisely the root of the arguments Nintendo fans have when trying to explain why Nintendo shouldn't go third party, and that is precisely the roots of all the arguments against it. The only other explanation is the fanboyish need to have hardware with the Nintendo logo on the front. And here, I thought it was about video games. You know, software.
@Quorthon But without their own hardware, there's less of a reason for Nintendo to try in their software. Games would come out at a less frequent pace, there would be even fewer risks like publishing Bayonetta 2 for example, and games like Splatoon would be fewer and farther between. I'm not saying Nintendo should never go 3rd party, they would if it was their only option, but there's no reason for them to do so just yet. Again, let's wait and see what Nintendo actually does with the NX before we make such bold claims.
@TheMisterManGuy
You're basically saying that, "yes, Nintendo is actually borderline lazy/incompetent without software-dependent hardware." So you agree that Nintendo is a company less dedicated to quality than they are in selling plastic.
And to think, this is from people who actually like Nintendo.
And frankly, what reason do you have to think games would come out less frequently? Where does that logic come into play? Since you think Nintendo would shrug off quality without dedicated hardware, that would automatically shorten development time, which means MORE games, not fewer.
@Quorthon Look anything can happen, but based on past history, it would suck if Nintendo went 3rd party. It's not that I think they couldn't make good games as a 3rd party, I would love to see them continue their quality if they dropped consoles, but based on what happened to Sega, it doesn't look likely.
Like I said, let's wait and see what the NX actually is before we declair 3rd party.
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