As well all know, Nintendo often has to make changes to its games when localising them for audiences outside of Japan. We've recently seen changes made to the likes of Fatal Frame and Xenoblade Chronicles X, and it seems that the forthcoming 3DS release Fire Emblem Fates is getting the same treatment.
In a statement to Nintendo World Report, Nintendo of America has confirmed that a scene in which the player character drugs a homosexual character to "cure" her has been changed.
The scene involves one of the female characters, Soleil, who is attracted to women. When paired with the male protagonist, he places a magic powder in her drink without her knowledge which makes her see women as men and men as women. While the scene is intended to give Soleil the chance to gain confidence in herself by becoming stronger around other women, the implication is that she is somehow "cured" of her homosexuality, as she goes on to propose to the male lead, stating that she fell in love with the "female" version of him but now loves him as a man.
Here's the scene as it appears in the Japanese version, complete with English subtlties:
Nintendo's statement is as follows:
In the version of the game that ships in the U.S. and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters.
There has been no word on how the scene or the conversation has been changed for the western release.
[source nintendoworldreport.com]
Comments 213
What, so because Soleil is rendered unconcious at the sight of cute girls, that makes her exclusively gay? As opposed to bisexual? Or even heterosexual?
The support conversation was about the protagonist helping her overcome that disability on the battlefield. The trope Soleil displays may be something that's less politically correct outside of Japan, but she is not intended to be a homosexual character.
It's regretable that the support conversation could be misconstrued as "conversion therapy", but the sites reporting on this got the wrong end of the stick.
You can read more about it here:
http://nichegamer.com/2015/07/the-story-behind-fire-emblem-fates-completely-falsified-gay-conversion/
The website states there are spoilers for the support conversation, but seeing as all that will be torn up and re-written, that hardly matters now. The question is, how will the
censorslocalisers handle it. Will they make Soleil explicitly hetero? (She isn't a romance option for a female protagonist as far as I'm aware) Would that infuriate the tumblr crowd even more?Sounds like an unnecessary scene to begin with. I don't mind censoring that.
"See! There is a cure for homosexuality!"
~Quote from something someone will probably say.
Yeah that was bound to happen. I'm never caught up about localisations and can certainly see why this has gone.. Though I do wonder why Nintendo and it's partners don't think globally about these things in the initial build. Considering their market is a global one it would make sense.
well i'm not surprised something like this is happening again
@headfirstslide Agreed, so long as the actual gay characters are unaffected.
Also, wasn't some of the stuff in the US version of FEA more risque than when EU eventually got? Like a re-censorship?
I can't say I'm surprised at this, the amount of backlash that was directed at Nintendo over this as soon as the game was launched was simply too much. As someone who was read the supports, yeah it's made out to be a lot worse than it actually is. Is it still tricking Soleil into developing romantic feelings for the male player character? Not directly, but yes it does have that effect should the player achieve an S rank with her. Honestly, her gimmick was something that was already bound to be changed in the localisation so I'm glad they got this out of the way as soon as possible and just let it be.
This makes me quite excited for the game however, as if they're revealing the changes they've made and this is it, it means we do keep a lot of the Japanese version's characters and story intact, which is always a good thing.
Good, scene seems awkward as hell and shouldn't have been included in the first place.
Also this isn't censorship, people who think this is are just willfully ignorant. Definition of censorship; 'Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments or authorities'
I think it was the fan translation that was messed up in the first place. As long as they don't replace it with more easily dated memes I'm not gonna get too mad over it.
Though Fates in general seems to be doing all those things that are uncomfortable to international audiences that Awakening avoided. Do you still marry your brothers/sisters?
Quick, remove everything that might offend someone.
This quest or whatever it is sounds all kinds of messed up. But homosexuality is often just portrayed as a joke, as silly, in Japanese media. That may be normal in Japan, but in western countries it won't fly with most people.
I wish i'd have been able to decide for myself whether or not the scene was appropriate, but it sounds awful. Don't mind it, at least from what I'm hearing about the scene.
@edhe "She is not intended to be a homosexual character."
Taken from the link you gave (which contradicts itself several times over):
"Soleil: If I get close to one that’s my type, I end up fainting. I’m just too sensitive."
"My type" is a clear indication of preference. There is literally no other instance where you would utter that phrase.
Reading the rest of the dialogue, it is painfully clear that Soleil is attracted to the same sex. There's literally zero ambiguity. The male (player) character even says:
"Don’t fool around with other men. Although I probably don’t have to worry about that with you."
@Damo From your current profile pic I like to think it's Miyamoto saying everything.
@Dakt
Ah yes, Tomodachi Life.
When you've got headlines from the BBC declaring:
NINTENDO SAYS 'NO' TO GAY GAME CHARACTERS
It becomes easy for people to get the wrong end of the stick.
@AlexOlney He is, via me.
Nintendo: Pissing everyone off while trying to cater to everyone....since a couple of years!
Yeesh, show some balls again Nintendo! If someone is offended, its their own problem (not always, but still)!
Mark my words: The same will happen if Mother 3 arrives. Eartbound has quite some "risky" stuff in it, even in the text (the text does sound really harsh sometimes, in my opinion). I guess the same is the case with Mother 3. So Mother 3 probably will have a very "soft" translation in the west!
I'm convinced....NoA is definitely gonna censor a LOT of things for this game. Its always has been and it always will be.
I think people don't understand the difference between Nintendo and Nintendo of America. Nintendo makes games and releases them.....Nintendo of America is the one who censors the content, localizes the games to the west and markets the games to the west....all of which while understandable are something they really need to work harder on.
.....NoA, if Nintendo is fine with it, why oh why do you have to have to censor it and give Nintendo an even badder image when Nintendo is fine with it? This is freaking Fire Emblem. Its about simulation. For pete's sake, why do you tone it down when you know that kids can't get into these kind of games?
And now we have to pray to gods that this game has to sell well otherwise we won't get some FE localisation.....
Aww, that's actually very cute. If it was localized carefully the intent could have been a powerful gesture but it's understandable in today's western climate that drugging a girls drink under any circumstances, especially when that circumstance can be misconstrued as 'fixing' a presumed gay character would be under intense scrutiny. It's unfortunate that it has to be removed, but hopefully her character arc will be mostly intact and she can still be a strong character.
That scene shouldn't have been in the game in the first place, if this description I've seen is anything to go by. I feel like Fire Emblem shouldn't be going in that direction anyway, so I'm fine with it being removed.
It's okay to have content in games that makes people uncomfortable.
Of course, whether that is what actually happened in the scene and wasn't just massively misconstrued by someone known with a penchant for causing drama...
Edited to add: I've seen a lot of wrong information put out about Nintendo games in the past to make things seem worse. I remember it happening with Tomodachi Life, where one journalist said that characters automatically hate being dressed in clothes specified for the other gender. No such thing happens in the game. Characters might hate one piece of [other gender] clothing, but like another. Just like they might hate an item of clothing specified as their own gender, and like another. Efforts to find out if that was present in review copies didn't go any further due to trying to talk to NoA through e-mails being harder than pulling teeth from a frog.
Now we know what really goes on in the game, changing some dialogue dosent make 'it' not go on.
So if the wording has to be changed should the scene not be cut out completely?
If we want censorship should we not have proper censorship and not pretend censorship?
@Damo
Like I said, it's a trope that's more prevelant in Japanese media. She's a character who just feels more comfortable around women.
The use of "My type" doesn't neccesarily suggest she is sexually attracted to the other female units. Simply that there is a particular type of woman - her type - who she enjoys being near.
That's not to say she doesn't enjoy the sensation from fawning over pretty women (before she passes out.)
Still not as bad as the themes of rape and incest in Fire Emblem Genealogy of the Holy Wars.
For all of you who thinks that by nintendo censoring this scene in a game is just because of public pressure then this is very troubling. This kind of scene should never be in a game. You cannot defend the drugging of a girl/woman in any game, no matter where its being released. Homophobia, racism and sexism should not be present in current games. But I know this post will get down vote so go ahead.
I really don't mind. But I hope that they handle well, after all, SPOILER Solei is Inigo's daughter and because of that the character has a special importance to me.
I really don't mind. But I hope that they handle well, after all, SPOILER Solei is Inigo's daughter and because of that the character has a special importance to me.
yeah...its a bit sad how they often see homosexuality as this shameful thing to create comedy in an anime or whatever.its slmost as being gay is considerd a fantasy thing like a dragon or whatever.you have it in every manga but on the streets...um not so much.still,if its in the game i think they should leave it in.im sure there are things in our culture thta offends them,do they get censorsed?(that actually a real question )
Huh?
@headfirstslide I hate censorship but i agree with you here.
@EllenJMiller
"It's okay to have content in games that makes people uncomfortable."
thank god (or whatever deity, system, ramen or herb you wish) someone has said this. Rather than get offended on someone else behalf or misunderstand what censorship means or cultivate deliberately thin skin to gain sympathy.
I think a situation like this really shows up the idea of any scenario being possible in a game. The concept of being able to change someone's sexual orientation is not real life. There should be Straight characters that have straight relationships, and Gay characters who have gay relationships, or the choice of not having to bother with relationships at all.
You can see why Nintendo have avoided sexuality in the past when they make a complete hash of it.
In japanese version of Fates story seems to be even more surprising/interesting than in FE games before and now they censor it for EU and USA. We have South Park, Spartacus and Games of Thrones in TV so i don't see why these kind of things must be censored from games only.
Video Games are a form of Art. Just like Movies, Music, Paintings, and Writing. Video Games combine these medias. It's shame people cannot see past their own ideologies. I think it should be in the game. It's a representation of Japanese culture. Should we have censored David Bowie? Should we have censored Anne Rice? Should we have censored Andy Warhol? Should we have censored Brokeback Mountain?
In the end, it's just a "Video Game". It's for kids. Right? Isn't there a rating system?
@Kurtz We live in odd times.
When you ban things for offending someone, where do you stop? We've someone in the comments who is offended by the presence of gay relationships in games. Should we remove gay relationships in games because of that? If not, why do we remove things that others find offensive?
Some might say "Well only a minority is offended by that, so no." Well, only a minority is offended by other things, so why yes to them?
Don't mind the censor, however if the scene was still in the game it wouldn't offend me.
I'd not heard of this scene before to today, but I've glad it's on. Not just becaise of the 'conversion' but the drugging of someone's drink? Come on, that was never gonna fly and I'm glad it's not gonna be in it.
We're not good enough to get the lingerie costume in Fatal Frame and Bravely Default, the Boob slider was to immature for us also. Now this. Why put it in the game in the first place if your just gonna take it out?
NoA needs to understand that we're grown ups here and we can take viewing these things. Seriously
@liljmoore You are so right. So what if it offends a few uptight people,
Let's take a little context away from the scene (as it would in the media) a guy slips a drug in a lesbian to "cure" her of it. This will either be cast in a rapey light or as "proof" than Nintendo views that LGBT people are "cureable"
Nintendo can't really afford an another anti gay headline
That girl seems kewt! Hope we get original Japanese voices for this game!
@Mogster You don't understand how definitions work do you. There's more than one and people mean this one. "to supress or delete as objectionable" Obviously.
cen·soredcen·sor·ing play ˈsen(t)-sə-riŋ, ˈsen(t)s-riŋ
transitive verb
: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable <censor out indecent passages>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censor
Why do people make reference to things that prove them wrong. Though obviously you don't think you're wrong even after reading the definition. Whatever I won't argue.
Yeah that scene sounds really offensive. I can agree with both sides of the argument regarding how much cleavage is shown in a game but to suggest that somebody can be "cured" of their orientation is simply wrong.
Oh that is an awful scene. No wonder it's being removed. Drugging another character that then cures them of their gay behaviors? Oh man, the media would eat that up.
ALright, let's just see what this scene is-oh. Yeah, that, uh...that's pretty bad. Oh, and to everyone that things that Nintendo shouldn't have censored this or that they're treating you like children, in the words of another user on this site whose name I can't remember, you do realize that the media could crucify Nintendo with stuff like this, right? They're not trying to treat you like children, they're trying to release something with as little media backlash as possible!
I'm ok with this. As a lesbian I was pretty ticked off when I first heard about it and then after playing it myself...yeah not cool.
This series was much better.before they started throwing sex into the picture. I don't play games because if a character's sexual preference.
Other than them being cowards I don't actually care about this, but I also don't care about homosexuals or their feelings getting hurt. By the by their feelings are already hurt because the two gay options are a stalker and a sadist. They might have also completely changed this character's personality.
I find it extremely disappointing to see that we're living the year 2016 and video games are still being censored and edited like this due to "cultural differences". All the talk about "video games and their community should grow up" and we're still having content edited and removed in fear of backlash from oversensitive people.
Here's a free tip - if you can't deal with something in a game or find it offensive, walk away from it. Don't go around demanding things in game to be changed, edited or removed for everyone just because you find it offensive or uncomfortable. I want to believe that most gamers can handle the fact that things are different in different countries and cultures. How difficult can it be to just take things as they are, as they were made by the original developers, and understand the fact that they were made in that particular country? That shouldn't even be the most important thing, ultimately it would be to just accept that things are handled differently by different people, and if you don't like it, nothing is preventing you from walking away from it.
But seeing how the damage had been already done with Fates, at least I can save some money for other games. Dividing the game to multiple parts and selling them separately was bad enough, but this is pretty much something that makes me comfortable to not buy this game. I don't want to support any practices that have been part of this game.
@liljmoore - The same people who took the content out aren't the same people who put it in. But the main reason is, money, down to a whole.
And obviously, you're not mature if you keep babbling about the past and content that was removed that you think would effect the whole quality and your enjoyment of the game. I repeat, reeeal mature.
@edhe Well, this pretty much explains EVERYTHING. Thanks for the link.
Haven't played the game or done research beyond reading this article, but seems like cutting it is unnecessary.
This could be done in a positive way (maybe it's not; again, only have what is said here to judge) with characters coming to terms with sexuality being a spectrum instead of a discrete pair of options. The character obviously is never "cured" or suddenly a straight heterosexual, based on dialog in the game. The only thing that really seems controversial is that you can't use the powder on any character in the game to temporarily change their perception and have an opportunity to build relationships.
Then again, it could have come across badly if poorly written or misinterpreted or used as a rallying point for bigots, so maybe just removing the scene is best. It's certainly easier to just avoid any kind of complex issue that might prompt thought and discussion. So good job Nintendo, for keeping us all safe and secure from having to confront different ideas or values!
Hahahahahahahahah! Haaaahahahahahahaha! This! Just this!
Hahahahahahahaha! I honestly can't stop laughing! xD
I'm actually...fine with this change. Carry on...
Lol at the apologists saying censorship/removal was a good thing.
@KO-Cub I know all that. But why am I am immature for expressing my opinion on this subject and past subjects that NoA has been doing for long time?
I view these things as unnecessary. Who cares if we get a boob slider or viewing girls in their underwear. Or this. I bet most of us seen worse. There was no reason to take this scene out.
Sony, MS, and other third parties don't seem to care about these subjects. NoA needs to lighten up a bit sometimes.
As much as I usually hate censorship and making changes to a game based on where it's released, this was probably the best choice this time. That scene sounds messed up and there would have lots of controversy and complaints if it remained.
Hopefully they'll only change the bare minimum to avoid the issues that doesn't dumb down on the story.
@EllenJMiller
unfortunately some feel that they have a monopoly on morality. and in our mediated environment, he who shouts loudest, shouts last, and regular people just keep quiet and remember that off the net people just generally get along:)
personally i love difference and that includes opinions
Here we go again with the localization issue again, Localization /=/ censorship (it can, but it doesn't intrinsically mean this).
As others have pointed out, the scene simply does not make the same connection with Western audiences as it does with Eastern audiences. People need to stop forgetting that by you, being a westerner, make different connections and have different thoughts to what people will perceive in the East or any other area. Take that knowledge, and it expand it to creating something, if a scene is interpreted in a non intended way in a different audience, do you change it to suit how they interpret things? Is that censorship? Or recognizing your audience?
It's probably true that Nintendo would probably see a backlash over this if it was released in it's original form. I'm going to buy this game regardless, but for people who think censorship is O.K. they have serious issues that cannot be addressed on this post. The media creates the narrative. If people are too blind or too consumed with their own idiosyncrasies that's their problem. It's a shame.
@Henmii This. There's so many things in the Mother games that's more edgier then this and the other games lately. How are we mature enough to handle viewing those 20 years ago vs this?
@AtlanteanMan what
Obviously more games are going to have lgtb characters because people are more fine with it now than they were back then.
Plus, in most games that feature gay characters or avatars, it's your choice whether you see them or not, so I'm not sure why this bothers you in the long run.
The scene wasn't really about curing homosexuality at all. In fact I never got the impression that Soliel was a homosexual per say. Unnecessary changes.
@Aurumonado Actually, you just recognized the reason for the change in it self. Its intent was not that, people misrecognized what was intended, it was remove or changed to meet the audience misrecognition. Not all concepts or ideas translate perfectly over to different cultures, so they get changed or removed because this.
Is it "drugging" if both parties willingly agree to it beforehand? Because that's what happened.
@edhe I think you are seeing it the wrong way. The idea alone of someone drugging you regardless of the affects without your knowledge isn't exactly a good thing. And the sexual orientation of the character is also unimportant. We know that she is 100% heterosexual because there are only two bisexual characters in the game. But it does come across as a type of conversion therapy so it makes sense toncensor out in a country that has recently declared same-sex marriage legal. Now in regards to her issue with women, it doesn't really matter. Look at Tharja. Her orientation was basically the Avatar and they didn't change it if you played as female. Yet she is still a heterosexual.character.
The scene itself was unnecessary to begin with and shouldn't be defended, in my opinion.
@AtlanteanMan Eh, I'm not a fan of the "new" marriage features either, but that doesn't stop me from buying this game. I really don't think that one scene or so should prevent you from buying a game. Just skip that if might bothher you a lot. It's a matter of "if it doesn't affect me, then I can go with it."
That said, I actually appreciate your taking a stance on this issue. More people need to do this.
@Warruz Well put. I agree with everything yoy said. I don't see it as censorship. There are reasons some things are changed. Different cultures recognize and respond to different things and, of course, are offended by different things. I don't think there is anything wrong with that or the need to change it to better fit the audience. And people can always look up the translations if they want to know.
@tsukipon Everyone just gets attached to it because its an "offensive" subject, but things gets change all the time without a whimper because they don't translate properly.
Here is a perfect example for everyone, what is this(this example is from an actual localization of a game)?
Wait a second.... so you're telling me, that different cultures have different values? And when translating an entire game from one continent and culture to another, they consider whether or not that content makes sense for the new audience and make the appropriate changes? That's preposterous.......
@Warruz
A dinosaur stepping on an iPod.
@edhe Nope, and you should actually know the most due to your avatar hint.
This is exactly why Nintendo should localize everything.
@whodatninja At least they treat it with dignity and dont declare it "something so special, it requires special treatment"
Most of gamings gay and bi characters come from japanese games.
Treat gay people like adults, they can take a joke as much as everyone else.
@MarioPhD Imo, there is a difference between localizing stuff so it is comprehensible and palatable and the removal of "offensive content".
Well, it's all weird to me...censoring a weird thing with a different but still weird thing, oh well.
This is not censoring, it's lolcalization.
@Socar What makes you think kids aren't in to Fire Emblem? I've been playing this series since I was 11 years old. That's 1/2 my life ago.
@Einherjar "Imo, there is a difference between localizing stuff so it is comprehensible and palatable and the removal of "offensive content"."
You are over simplifying it, what if something is only offensive to the secondary audience (the audience who had the media translated for them)? As in, its not offensive to the first audience, arguably , the main audience, but just the secondary one? Are you removing offensive content or are you making sure your original intent isn't misinterpreted because it doesn't translate to the other audience?
@Einherjar In short, I see this as a case of audience awareness, not artistic integrity. Nintendo would look utterly tone deaf leaving this content in for audiences that may be sensitive to it. What works for one culture doesn't necessarily for another.
@Warruz Well, you pretty much just said precisely what I agonized over saying in as few words as possible. 100% agreed, and well-stated.
@AtlanteanMan
That's the least intelligent comment I've ever seen on this site. An amoral lifestyle? It's a very well established scientific fact that it's not a choice; that's like saying that having red hair is an amoral lifestyle.
I'd also like to know why my comments get censored for using the world "hell," but this jackyouknowhat is allowed to spew inane homophobic nonsense. I used to respect NintendoLife, but if that crap is tolerated, then that's out the window.
"Remarks towards others about racism, sexism, origin, creed and handicap will NOT be tolerated and will most likely be deleted by staff, and the poster will be warned, suspended or banned."
They did conveniently leave out any protections against remarks about homophobia and transphobia in their rules. Maybe the site agrees with that crap?
Alright, I just looked at the official text, and...on one hand, the only intent was to help her get over herfainting problem, but on the other hand, youve still got the fact that the main character drugged Soleil unwillingly (and the fact that he told her as soon as she noticed doesn't change the fact that the main character, AKA YOU, drugged her without her knowing it), and then you've got the part with the proposal which can be misinterpreted, and the whole thing is just awkward and uncomfortable. So...yeah.
@ElkinFencer10 If you think he's bad, you should've seen what it was like when Nintendo announced that this game would allow homosexual relationships, or that article about the whole Gunman Clive thing a while back. But I guess it's not that bad...now I know which users I want to avoid.
@Warruz
OK. I think what you're getting at is that localisers have a responsibility to alter anything that may offend western sensibilities, and I'd agree with that.
However, I feel this has been grossly misrepresented in regards to Fire Emblem and the character Soleil. She isn't homosexual and the protagonist didn't give her the "drug" so that he could score. In that respect, I don't feel it was neccesary to change this in the localisation.
PS, it's a block of tofu on fire.
@Warruz It sounds to me like you're over complicating it. I don't want to play a Role Playing Game where a character drugs another one because they're homosexual and that's not OK. That's like the dark ages where people with mental illnesses were burnt at the stake because people belived they were witches. We're a more enlightened people in this day and age and games should do their best to represent that. Homosexual people have the right to be properly portrayed, doesn't matter in my eyes what Intelligent Systems intended or thought was appropriate for their Japanese audience, it's coming over here now and I'm glad this has been changed for us.
And for the people saying they don't want this trash in their games, I'll be the first to say I'm glad you've decided this game isn't for you. There are plenty of games in the AAA space of things that suit your 'needs' better, I for one think it's well overdue that Nintendo are embracing modern culture.
@Warruz The thing is, weve seen such scenes for ages now.
We had a rather large sum of "transformative localizations" over the past few moths with stuff, that were never viewed as "offensive" before.
Tekkens "Lucky Chloe" for instance. Not the first girl with a frilly dress in the roster. And suddenly, its needs to be changed ?
Street Fighters "R. Mika" made her buttslap taunt for as long as she existed. And just now its "offensive" ?
DoA Xtreme had 3 previous installments that actually sold better in the west than in japan, and the 3rd one is "offensive" all of a sudden ?
Yeah, I'm OK with this. It was an inappropriate sequence and the person who wrote it should feel ashamed. Even the gross "gay cure" angle aside, drugging a drink without someone's knowledge is horrifying and criminal, and a video game targeted at teens really needs to frame it around that context.
@Dakt is right - this all seemed to start with Tomodachi Life. Those who complained sent Nintendo a message that we can't accept games as they are. For the record, I support Nintendo's right to put gay relationships in their games, but if they want to create something that doesn't have them, that's also fine.
My opinion on Fates? Drugging is certainly dodgy, for whatever reason and whichever gender is on the receiving end. We have to ask ourselves some serious questions here - Is it OK to portray illegal acts in video games? If it's OK to portray them, is it OK to glorify them? At the end of the day, I have some sympathy with cutting this, as I suspect they couldn't get a PEGI 12 (or anywhere near) if they left the drugging in; unlike, say, censoring a bikini, because it's utterly ridiculous to say a 12-year-old can't see a bikini.
Regarding the homosexual conversion, it's inaccurate and (to some) offensive but, again, we have to ask ourselves - Should fiction and fantasy be allowed to portray inaccurate ideas? To me, the answer is "absolutely".
@DarkJamD @Lilith93 Nintendo is not attempting to make media that emulates MA shows on TV. That's the first thing anyone criticising Nintendo on this needs to understand. They make all ages products under most circumstances and there are certain themes that are best left out not out of fear of backlash but out of respect for others.
@MarioPhd @Warruz Your views erase Artistic integrity. Ones culture shapes one's individuality in one way or another. If you ask me sensitivity is way overrated.
People just prying too deep into things...
Critics and these people, always tryin to get a rise or something.
Well in any case, whaever. What I'm more interested in is what they're going to use to replace this.
@edhe Its more that the localization responsibility is to keep to the intended message, not all things translate properly, somethings are not salvageable without reworking previous dialogue or scene. To use the picture I showed earlier as an example, its from Phoenix Wright, and represents a kindergartners name badge in Japan. Us, not being from Japan, would have no idea to its meaning, thus if a game was translated, we wouldn't understand references around it, this is why its localized, to keep the audience point of view in mind. No one lost their marbles over this change, it wasn't "censoring dialog" , it simply did not make sense to a Non-Japanese audience so it got nixed.
@River3636 Does it? or does it preserve the artists intent? "Know your audience" extends to all works.
@Warruz
So by this logic Romeo's and Juliet's tragic suicide scene should be erased or altered because it might offend and cause teenagers to commit suicide. This play is required reading in a great deal of schools in the U.S.
@River3636 Yeah there's a rating system but unlike Brokeback Mountain, this game doesn't fall into the 17+ category. Fire Emblem is T in NA and it's equivalent in EU as intended by its designers and publisher.
Not to sound like I'm joking, but won't someone think of the children? Not your child or what you think is right. But someone else's child and what these types of ideas could do to a mind not sufficiently developed to see this from a neutral stance.
@River3636 Was that tragic scenes original purpose to cause suicides? Was that the intent of the work itself? I don't think so. Also to just build on this for a moment, works such as that, tend to have explanations to things that may be misinterpreted that is lacking in games (Steins;Gate does this great though). For example I have been reading the Diving Comedy as of late, and there are multiple references that make 0 sense in this time period, but there is a healthy explanation following each chapter to explain these things as to understand them properly.
@River3636 If an artist is willing to have something be changed, it's not a question of integrity. If they were determined to tell this story in this way, they could have either demanded it stay in, or not chosen to make this game and story with Nintendo.
Furthermore, it's easy to say "sensitivity is overrated," but when you consider the extremely limited exposure that groups like LGBTQ have in different media, the representations they DO have matter. It's naive to think that the media we consume doesn't reflect and/or shape how we view others, especially groups we're not in common contact with, and I don't think it's worth shaming and/or hurting any percentage of the user base to appease the "sensitivity is overrated" crowd. I can't imagine anyone who considers this "censorship" will be feeling a deep emotional hurt over this content being cut, but I can see precisely that happening for those who it might otherwise effect. It should only require a bit of empathy and understanding of the other people playing a game to see that even if there's a chance of making someone feel personal shame while playing a game for fun isn't worth it. I imagine you wouldn't want to play a game that inevitably felt like a condemnation of who you are as a person, and I don't think risking blindsiding people with that is worth "artistic integrity" which I think is debatable regardless.
Now that's really stupid. Not getting this anyway, so whatever. No wonder why Nintendo is years late when it comes to gaming market.
@Damo
""My type" is a clear indication of preference. There is literally no other instance where you would utter that phrase."
It can, and has, been used to indicate similarity. Literally.
This is creaping me out so another game I not getting.I need to save money also I have to play the games I already gave I just by corrin as smash DLC.So I am out.
@MarioPhd that is a bit disingenuous. Considering the corporation has the last say. If you had read my previous post, I stated that the media itself creates the narrative. And yeah sensitivity is overrated. I don't feel emotional or anything about this. I'm going to buy the game regardless. This game does not condemn or shame anybody. I'm sorry where I live the gay culture is all around me and I think it adds to the ambience.Women are dressed "provocative" for provocative sake and it's great. There is a nude beach 40 minutes from my house and I wish I had the nerve to go.
@DatFunkySmell
Brokeback mountain is a bit of a red herring.
You said,"Not to sound like I'm joking, but won't someone think of the children? Not your child or what you think is right. But someone else's child and what these types of ideas could do to a mind not sufficiently developed to see this from a neutral stance".
I am so offended by this comment. (sarcasm)
I'm going to teach my child to respect everybody, Love everybody. I'm a going teach my child that their body is beautiful and they shouldn't be ashamed of it. I'm going to teach my child that they can belong to whatever religion they want and that they can love whoever they want, regardless of gender. That being said, it is you the parent that decide what video games your child is purchasing or playing. If you don't think he or she should be playing it then don't let them.
Nintendo did the right thing here and this comes from a guy who blasted them for removing the swimsuits from Fatal Frame. I'm sure in the Japanese version it comes off better, but in the west, this support conversation has two major red flags that could land Nintendo in hot water.
1. The Protagonist spikes a woman's drink without her consent. Given the recent headlines about Bill Cosby and various attempts to make rape and sexual assault receive more awareness with the general public, Nintendo keeping this in is just asking for trouble. Think about how this sounds, a male character spikes a woman's drink to make her fall in love with him. How is that not creepy or asking for Nintendo to get slammed?
2. The idea that Homosexuals need to be "cured" is opening another Pandora's box that Nintendo does not want to deal with. With the recent push for gay and lesbian rights along with better awareness, Nintendo will just look bad if they push this scene.
People can stand on their censorship soapbox all they want, but I agree with Nintendo fully in this case. People will run with the ball with headlines such as "New Nintendo game promotes date rape!" or "Nintendo game has gay characters being cured."
This is not a swimsuit on a character. This scene touches on two major red button issues in society.
Maybe in Japanese it comes off as better or these is some context that can't be translated.
That's Bill Cosby territory that we are entering, and the female character being homosexual makes this even worse.
Its a bad idea and Nintendo is right to change it. I'm always the first to bash Nintendo for censorship, and in many cases they do come off as overprotective when it comes to content.
But in this case, Nintendo is doing the right thing.
@edhe Read the whole thing. It was pretty adorable, actually. I won't buy it if they remove it.
"But as a man living in the US, I've gathered that the entire scene involves a male character drugging a female character to force her to fall in love with them."
The problem, as I see it, is that what you've gathered and what actually happens probably isn't the same thing.
The intent of changing her perspective doesn't appear to be sexual (or emotional) in nature. And the whole "gay cure" angle sounds like reaching at best, since conversations afterwards would indicate that she's bi with an active preference for women and making an exception for one character.
Whether my impressions (based on online posts instead of actually playing the game) are accurate is uncertain. In fact, both of us are forming ideas based on second-hand knowledge that is incomplete and might be incorrect. So it's tough to make any definitive judgement...
These games are getting weird, man.
Yes, it's going to offend some people, but regardless of your feelings on it, I don't agree that localisers should dictate that people can't have the right to see the artists original intention.
@ejamer I'll agree with you on that. Pretty much all my info comes from the article and the fact that Nintendo themselves are removing or changing the scene.
I will say that it might come off better in the Japanese version. Maybe its an issue of something that comes off as either "cute" or "funny" in the Japanese version that could not be translated properly to the west.
It's times like these that I feel the West is too PC and sheltered in this medium.
But on the other hand Japan can be a weird country from time to time.
@River3636 But my point is that Nintendo distributes these games with the intentions of them being enjoyed by a general audience. Fire Emblem is the least of my concerns in regards to what I think is suitable for children or general passersby but simultaneously I don't let my sisters (who I am like a father figure to) watch a lot of anime because I don't like how most of them portray woman, which has been bleeding into FE ever since Awakening became popular.
This scene, however, and all that goes into it is entirely ridiculous and has no place of acceptance in our culture except that some westerners watch anime. That's the only place where "these" types of encounters occur and, SHOCKERS, it's also a Japanese media.
I'm not offended by what is being removed, but I don't really mind it being removed, because what is there is not intelligent or clever in the least. It is just making a slapstick joke out of the situation. Come to think of it, the only Japanese production I can think of that intelligently and carefully handles the topic of homosexuality (and homelessness, which is also a sensitive subject) intelligently is Satoshi Kon's "The Tokyo Godfathers."
I don't know if the Japanese in general just don't understand the subject, or if they're just ignoring the legacy of all of the Japanese homosexual artwork which has existed in Japan for hundreds of years. (Which wasn't all burned like it would have been in Europe, etc). Homosexuality is still publicly frowned upon even today in Japan, but they're not radical about it like some people in the West are, due to... the influence of religion, quite frankly. The Japanese tend to be more practical (or classically wary/aloof) about it in reality. But it is rarely respected, to be sure.
This scene also touches upon what is essentially using a modified "date rape" drug as a love potion. Usually, this is pretty ambiguous or is just not treated as criminal when it appears, because of the context of the situation. (Remember how Xenoblade also had a love potion side quest, where you can choose to have someone else brainwash one person or another to affect the outcome of their lives and relationships?) The problem arises in Fates because of the context of the situation: there is no ambiguity or whitewashing of what is happening here, it is plainly taking advantage of someone to twist their physical, mental, and psychological state of health to your own selfish ends. I can't recall any other game that has handled the subject so flippantly.
It's disappointing to see these sensitive subjects be handled so poorly by Intelligent Systems, because they do have a history of covering very sensitive topics in the Fire Emblem series, including rape, genocide, child murder, racism, incest, occultism, and of course, the conditions of war upon a populace. I might chalk it up to the stupid anime tropes being utilized in Fates, but it's still up to Intelligent Systems and Nintendo to regulate their own content with prudence, before it comes under review, and they failed miserably.
@Aerona I'm a huge Fire Emblem fan, and even I have to agree. The GBA games and Path of Radiance were never this weird. Even Awakening did not go into this territory.
I really hope Fates still has good core Fire Emblem gameplay. I thought Awakening did a good job in that aspect.
I just hope at some point, IS remembers that people buying Fire Emblem games want a strategy RPG, so a touching mini game or whatever this scene is supposed to be.
Path of Radiance is one of the best games in the series, and it had little to no stuff like this.
@River3636
i was talking about something from a while back.not something i said today,sorry for the confusion.i just thought to bring it up again because well...the rules are there for everyone
@Caryslan It's becoming progressively more anime which is something I'm not a fan of. I'm selfishly wishing FE would go back to being a niche series. Ironically it's transition to a tropey anime style made it substantially more popular than before.
@DatFunkySmell 11 is usually considered the age of "teenagers" and I know that 13 is the age for that but 11 doesn't sound like a young kid....8 might sound a more like a kid but not 11.
@liljmoore You're a "grown up", I'm a "grown up". This game has a 13+ rating. It's intended audience is not of the "grown up" type.
edit: are you liljmoore on GameInformer?
@Socar But if Fire Emblem existed in the US when I was 8, I would have been all over it. I had just started playing Final Fantasy and Pokemon at around that age.
I think we can all agree that (While it was always anime) it never pandered to Otaku fanbases with such tropes and humor. Fire Emblem Fates apparently has good gameplay, so not to worry, but how the franchise represents itself with content, story and visuals is something IS should respect and always think of when making a FE game. This applies to all dev teams making a game.
@DatFunkySmell Rating are bull. All games are intended for a certain audience but most people who play FE are the "grown ups" like us. Not those so called "young kids" who would rather play GTA, Cod or the Madden.
@PlywoodStick Nintendo and Intelligent Systems explicity saught popular manga authors to write this game so it is what it is. I used to champion Fire Emblem but if it continues like this I can't defend it. And not to be misconstrued as overdramatic as I'm without a doubt buying this, but it's getting to a point where I am uncomfortable sharing it with others as I would my Zelda's, Mario's, and other Nintendo games I love.
@DatFunkySmell Like I stated before it is the parents responsibility to deem what is appropriate for their child. I think the anime improved Awakenings.
@liljmoore The same can be said for Zelda then. But it would be ridiculous if this sort of content were in those games. I started playing this series in middle school and because of my trust in the brand, bought Awakening as a gift for my little sister as well as myself, and after playing that game and exploring some of the support content, I felt a little shame as it felt like I was buying my sister anime "smut" when the series was previously not like that.
Oh look, this scene ia being blown out of proportion again due to bad fan translations. Ladies and gentlemen, the Internet.
Anyway, if the Treehouse can keep their rabid censorship tendencies (yes I know it's not entirely their fault) in check, it'd be nice if they can rewrite the scene in a way that stays similar to the original with the original cute intentions without inciting the wrath of the Muricens. Maybe do something that doesn't freaking involve putting stuff IN A DRINK.
@River3636 You are partially correct. A parent should decide what is appropriate but the reality of ratings is to provide a general guideline and many T games skirt the line of what is appropriate and can swing wildly so unless the parent is super informed (which NONE of them are) they should be able to purchase a 13+ recommended product without worrying about "damaging" their child.
@DatFunkySmell Look i understand your point. but to me these things are non issues. I've played games like Earthbound when I was five and had no problems with it. All in all this is a picky subject. Some see as harmless while others easily get offended. I view it as harmless
@DatFunkySmell Guidelines are up to the parent. Restrictions and beliefs of the parent shape the child. This topic is a little blown up for it's own good, but damage is relative considering this topic.
@PlywoodStick
This. All of this.
@DatFunkySmell
I feel the same for Fire Emblem, though I'm fine with anime stuff just not in Fire Emblem. I'm personally more concerned about the gameplay taking such a sharp turn downhill. TBH, at this point I'm waiting for the day the series just becomes mobile only.
Honestly people always praise Awakening for saving the series (mostly by people who've never really played an FE game before, aside from maybe Sacred Stones), however I'm STARTING to feel like it would've been better for this series to die as a good memory rather than continue on as a soulless shell that's constantly destroying what's left of its identity.
Really they should've killed or shelved the IP and released Awakening as a new IP.
@liljmoore Madden is E rated and just as many kids play Minecraft. Don't let your pessimism color your judgement. My grown-up self doesn't want this garbage in the game for my personal consumption as well. I would go buy Senran Kagura if I wanted this. I would get Stella Glow if this was the type of thing I was into. I buy games for myself and others including children from age 7 to 17 and Fire Emblem used to be among those and now because of content like this, it's something that the 17 year old can get, if she wants, but nothing I'll buy for her and certainly not for my younger siblings/neices/nephews/neighbors.
@liljmoore
Except Fire Emblem is crafted for kids and young children nowadays.
@DatFunkySmell Oh, so that explains why the writing is so tropey and ill-conceived... Well, then. I guess this is an example of what happens when one favors manga writers instead of dedicated writers to compose the script of a title dealing with sensitive issues. The result is nothing short of a circus.
I guess the only reason left to buy to buy Fates now is for the gameplay, because the story aspect is progressively being revealed to be worse than our expectations...
@AVahne At first, I was like "if it's for the greater good?" but now, especially with this "controversy" I hope in vain that Nintendo wises up with the swiftness. Won't happen, though. As this style is too popular nowadays.
I gave them a pas for censoring a 13-year-old's "skimpy" outfit in Xeniblade X - that was reasonable - but completely altering the context of a part of the story, even if it's just a side mission..nah m8
Aww, too bad America is so serious when it comes to all this garbage :/ I admire how much fun Japan has with such sensitive topics.
@PlywoodStick To be fair, this isn't the story. It's optional support conversations that you the player have to forcevfor hours to actually happen. I still, avoiding spoilers, expect the actual important narrative to be substantial in content and emotional distress.
@ShortSleevedNook Consider how fun it is for Americans( or anyone) who personally lived through this type of stuff and you'll see just where the disconnect exists between our cultures. Japan doesn't have an equivalent. And just as food for thought, because some people think Japan can do no wrong: it's perfectly legal to discriminate in Japan against people of different race, religion, gender, etc. They aren't even close to perfect like some would paint them.
That plotline sounds pretty messed up, but summarily sanitizing it to boost sales is abhorrent.
Applying a magical fix to a subject to change their basic nature into something more socially acceptable... gay conversion is a big no, but apparently game conversion is a-ok.
@Fath It's a product intending to be sold. What else should it aspire for? Anyone who follows(ed) this series knows it SOLD OUT with Awakening both artistically and commercially. At this point Nintendo is trying to make it as appealing as Mario.
Aaaaand cue Nintendo Life commenters complaining about censorship. "Never mind being flippant about forced conversion therapy. You know what's really bad? Censorship in our games!"
This place scares me sometimes.
@thanos316
>Homophobia, racism and sexism should not be present in current games.
You do realize that you can have all of these things and portray them in a bad light, right?
You do realize that you can have all these things and not portray them in any light and have the audience decide, right?
You do realize you can have ALL of these things and have them in a positive light? And that's okay, because we're humans and we have opinions, including ones that we disagree with, and that's totally normal.
@Amazoness Some people need to get out more. There's this misconception that exists that conservative people are "wrong" or "bigots" or that unless you're 100% with a cause, you're against it. As if topics such as this don't require nuance or a more gentle approach.
Regardless of how much anime someone and their friends might watch, this is still something that the majority of western culture does not understand or is just not into. But you can't tell anyone that because they're too self absorbed in what they want.
@AVahne I highly doubt FE is made for kids and young adults in mind. Especially with the stuff they've being doing with it lately
Given the description, this looks to not be a "cure" at all, and in no way should be taken as offensive. Tons of homosexual, men or women, ended up loving an opposite sex person because they fell in love, and the reverse is true. Mountain out of a molehill... again.
@Warruz I didn't recognize that badge and then you pointed it out so I am curious to know more about it. What did they change exactly? But I know what you mean regardless. Somethings that are part of local cultures might not be understood by a different audience so they would have to be altered to make sense for someone who isn't Japanese and/or doesn't know of certain cultural aspects.
Yeah, I really couldn't see this scene making it into the international release. I wonder how much more of the game will end up being censored?
As a lesbian I'm happy they're "censoring" this part of the game. Though I believe censoring art is wrong, this particular scene is in no way, shape or form artistic. There's nothing artistic about drugging a woman without her consent.
And the implication that a drug could "cure" a woman of her infatuation with other women is disgusting and hurtful.
In my teenage years I tried a lot of things to "cure" myself of homosexuality (at the request and aid of my local church) which ended up being incredibly harmful to myself both physically and mentally. So don't try to defend this trash scene, please.
The answer is that either both sides are right (which is functionally useless) or neither is. You're now in a postion where you're asking if it's okay to be tolerant of intolerance.
There are things that are concretely WRONG as defined by human society and today's culture has determined that descriminating against someone based on their sexual orientation is on that list, not calling someone out for being wrong in the first place.
Fire Emblem now being about these kinds of themes in the first place is why I don't play them anymore.
Though I'm still sad about the modifications on behalf of those that want the games as they were intended.
Here come the comment nukes! Take cover!
Cool it with the political/Religious conversations, anyone else bringing up either subject will be getting a temp ban.
Please read up on the community rules.
Meanwhile for @SheldonRandoms, i'm just gonna play the game(s) regardless when I do, uhhhhhhhhhh and that's it I guess, THEND!
@Yorumi Sorry, we don't have a PM system on Nintendo Life.
@Santa doing the hard work of "localizing" the comments that don't fit with the community rules.
I get why Nintendo censored this scene, but I hope it doesn't get too gung-ho about removing anything that could even be construed as offensive.
Peace out, yall!
To be honest I just want a European release date.
Although the original scene is particularly disturbing in it's implication that same-sex infatuation can be "cured" with drugs, I honestly would have still bought and played the game regardless if the Treehouse wasn't censoring it. I just would have avoided talking to that particular character completely. Though, depending on how they change the scene, I may still avoid it.
@Ralizah You know it
Sounds good, since that scene sounds pretty offensive to me, but I don't understand what they mean by "there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion." What the hell is that even supposed to mean? What is 'gay conversation?'
So sick of this nonsense. So done with the series, where's my next Advance Wars...
Regardless of the amount of "flak" anyone gets, you have to realize that an honest person seeking truth and justice will pretty much always get said flak and hatred. There are bad people on both sides of the coin, just as there are good people on both too. Please drop the stereotypes; it hurts you more than you know.
This should be ok Santa...please tell me if not.
In my teenage years I tried a lot of things to "cure" myself of homosexuality (at the request and aid of my local church) which ended up being incredibly harmful to myself both physically and mentally. So don't try to defend this trash scene, please
When it comes to fictional characters, seeing characters go through tough times and overcoming the consequences of those tough times makes for a more powerful story than simply preventing those bad times from ever happening. However, I am completely the opposite when it comes to actual people. Nobody should have to go through tough times in life and its always upsetting when they do,
I'm against censorship in general because I like content as original as possible, but how many pro censorship people here have actually seen the scene in question and actually know what they're talking about before they jumped on "this scene is disgusting and it's fantastic that it was removed" bandwagon?
I... don't really mind this... Unnecessary and stupid changes though.
The whole thing is awkward as hell. They put in a weird drugging scene that really didn't need to happen anyway. It never felt like conversion therapy to me but some other weird way of showing they know gay people exist, but didn't really want to do it anyway so they made it where "oh don't feel bad she's gay, they fixed her without religion!" to make straight people playing this a little more comfortable if they weren't already. I'm usually against censorship but if it makes it less weird then I can get over it. Their apology thing is a bit strange too, it almost says "we acknowledge the homophobia and drugging, we took it out for you but left it for ourselves"
You know what? I'm getting really sick of hearing about this game and all of its stupid awkward crap. From the western release getting split into two full price games, to the "fondle your waifu" minigame, to all the homosexuality crap, (don't even get me started on fans now asking for polygamy and even incest options in FE, mirroring the real-life "love is love" idiocy) it's really turning me off. I may even skip out on the Corrin dlc in Smash because of all this nonsense. I just want nothing to do with this game anymore.
Keep cutting content out my games Nintendo...
Keep doing it....
I dare you....
I just want nothing to do with this game anymore.
Then you weren't ever a fan in the first place. Fans of the series wouldn't let such things impede their purchase of the game or their enjoyment of playing it.
@Dakt except they were right to receive the flak they got for Tomadatchi Life and this further highlights their bigotry and disregard for the feelings of people who aren't heterosexual.
Nintendo are right to be hyper-sensitive and vigilant if that means offensive crap like this and Tomadatchi Life's marriage system don't happen
Before I get to what I want to say, I'm just going to say that in terms of what they did with this, I think that, mostly for the possibility that people will take this in the whole "drugged the girl" type deal, this seems like a smart approach for NoA. Now with that said: Is it too much to ask for an update on the game that's not something that will just result in either whining about the pricing or something related to relationships? Seriously that is all I seem to hear anywhere regarding this game, while there's basically nothing on the actual gameplay. I'll even gladly take a publicly spoiled ending next week if it means a break from complaining about the same two things every time the game is brought up.
These days, a person saying derogatory words towards homosexuals is like using the n word to a black person.
Well, it's not exactly conversion therapy, as she's still sexually attracted to women. (The fact that she first fell in love with her husband's female form is all the proof we need that she's at least bisexual.) It was just her visual perceptions that were temporarily altered. However, the fact that she was unknowingly drugged to accomplish this is what crosses the line. Had she agreed to it beforehand, it wouldn't be so bad, although it might have still needed to be censored due to how it appears.
Something still doesn't make sense, though: Wouldn't her problem on the battlefield then become even worse with the higher number of cute "girls" (in reality, the men) out there?
@Bass_X0 and that's how it should be, there shouldn't be any sort of derogatory language used against any group in society. The fact that gay marriage was only legalised in the US last year shows that homophobia is still a pressing issue and Nintendo following the Tomodatchi life thing need to be more considerate.
It's easy to view things as a non-issue when you aren't a member of the group getting targeted by the derogatory terms and misrepresentation.
@ain
pls just make her another gay option like she's supposed to be lmao
There are female anime characters with the personality trait of really liking cute girls to the point of getting very physical about it but they themselves aren't strictly homosexual.
There are male versions of this character as well (as in, the guy really likes cute guys, but isn't outright made to be a homosexual), the one that comes to mind is that guy from Fruits Basket, but I can't remember his name since I read that manga like over 10 years ago.
I want buttcheeks and conversion therapy in my Fire Emblem, dammit!
So we got the typical group calling this censorship and bad for "censoring", yet by keeping it in, it shames a group of people because it makes it sound like what they have is a disease.....Do the anti-censorship people even know what's going on here, or do they see an opportunity to complain about yet another change because "Nintendo"?
@arrjayjee ah yes, the game is ruined now. eyeroll
@BrizzoUK We likely would of gotten it uncensored in the US if it wasn't for the major issues going on with the LGBT community now a days. It is still a huge fight for those folks to even get married as tons of Republican governors in power are looking for all kinds of ways to block LGBT folks rights, even going against the Supreme Courts decisions. If this game had come out 5 years ago, I doubt it would of been censored.
Plus, I doubt Japan is going to change how they do things just because of a Western audience, entirely because localization is a thing.
I don't know what the hell Intelligent Systems were thinking when they wrote this scene. I'm fine with it being removed - the player drugging Soleil to "help" her sounds seriously wrong. Yes, it may be censorship, but people ate not realising that if they leave this as it is, groups defending LGBT rights will be vocal about this, and with good reason. I don't mind Soleil liking girls, and facerubbing and all that other stuff - using them is optional. But the message they send leaving that in.... Ugh. Seriously, if IS want FE to remain rated T can they read the damn script before releasing the game?
Who the hell cares? It was a support conversation! We don't need a Social Justice Warrior Riot just because of this, Nintendo did not deserve to be backlashed by the whole Tomodachi Life thing, it was a bug and they fixed it? Are they not allowed to patch games? Seriously people are too sensitive these days! I feel like a ton of Nintendo's decisions regarding localization have been from society pressuring Nintendo, I'll gladly move to Japan if this keeps up, nobody gives a crap about equality or rights over there according to my uncle who lives there which I hope is true, they just live life. I wish we could do that too, but no, Anita Sarkeesian has to make a quick buck by removing everything that she doesn't like, the only difference between being offended back then and being offended today is that nowadays, the companies actually listen to them which is ridiculous and it limits the choices of the consumer. Ugh I hate! I repeat hate! Modern Society! I don't give a crap about transgenders, bisexuals, heterosexuals, skunksexuals, daddysexuals, or whatever the heck people like to call them nowadays, they'e people in my eyes, why do they think they have to fight for their rights? It's so stupid and pitiful, and it affects the majority of the population who didn't want it to happen in the first place! It's just a single support conversation. Heck I even saw a tweet from the Feminist Frequency Twitter Account saying that Iwata was a misogynist person and Nintendo is better off without him. WTH is that supposed to mean? They also said they wanted a female link, instead of linkle. Linkle is freakin Female Link! Oh my god I finally blew off that steam. I know this isn't the right website to say something like this, but things like this piss me off. I feel a lot better now, sorry about that, feel free to tell me what you think about what I just said.
@TheAceofMystery
"Who the hell cares?"
The people not getting their daily dose of cement. You should see the uproar about the game that allowed players to kill Australian Aboriginals. A lot of people need more cement in their diet.
@Tiredman Come to think of it, it has almost been 5 years since MD legalized gay marriage. It wasn't much of an uproar here, though, because... Well... We're not completely stuck in the 20th century like a lot of the country is. I hate to say it that way, but it's true, quite frankly.
@shaneoh LOL, I only just found out about that "cement" lingo. Pretty funny.
Some people are just naturally sensitive, though. It's not a crime to be sensitive. We could use more sensitive people in the world. The problems are in the extremes.
@TheAceofMystery Yeah, they don't don't care about equality or rights... Especially for gaijins, which includes you.
But seriously, their public systems are in better shape than USA's Social Security. It's not perfect, and the Japanese have much less history with unions winning rights for the populace. However, I don't think Japan doesn't care about those things. It's their politicians who generally don't care. (Same as everywhere else's.)
Here we go again
Will the censorship never end Nintendo? I'm really getting sick of this.
So the ridiculous Tumblr rumor that evolved into a full-blown mess, spreading false things like wildfire, actually ended up in removing this whole portion (aka censoring the game)... Why am I not surprised...
I had a feeling something stupid like this would happen. It is the internet after all, and once something is put out there and enough people are convinced, they will take it for what it seems to be on the surface.
EDIT: Okay, so here was the post that I saw on Tumblr, that talked about this controversy: https://imgur.com/gallery/Z46S9
@Miiamoto were aren't Japan, if you want the unedited Japanese version import a Japanese console and Japanese version of the game and learn Japanese so you don't have to suffer any localisation changes in the script.
@shaneoh the main wingers are the ones constantly complaining over censorship of dumb things.
Boo hoo, I can't get rewarded for murdering Aboriginals, perving on 13 year olds or drugging women against their consent.
Yeah, they are the ones who need to harden up.
@Discostew
Either they don't know what's going on, or they're insensitive bigots.
Gay community: "We deserve to be respected like any other human. Please censor the scene because it's insensitive, unethical, and scientifically incorrect"
Anti-censorship crowd: "We deserve this one non-important scene. Think of the hundreds of years of shame and being treated like second-class citizens we've had to endure. We deserve this one scene " ...lol, yeah no
Seriously, suck it up anti-censorship zealots. You lose nothing from losing this scene. I'm usually in support of not censoring games, but this is justified, and doesn't hurt the game even slightly.
@PlywoodStick
It's a good saying.
@MadAdam81
I'm guessing you're one of those people who took the news headlines as fact, when most of them were blatantly wrong. The point of the game wasn't to murder aboriginals, it was a wilderness survival game, the choice to kill them is entirely up to the player. It's less prejudicial than all those shooters allowing you to kill, Germans, Japanese and Middle-Easterners, because that is forced upon you, there is no choice. But I'm not saying those games should be changed to be something else so that it won't upset people, they should be left as is. Nintendo should have taken the two days of controversy.
Tharja did all sorts of creepier crap with more malicious intent.
Having learned that the dialogue is being changed to appeal to easily-offended people that probably have no interest in Fire Emblem from the start, I'll have to forgo buying Fire Emblem Fates. It's disheartening that this had to happen, considering that this would've been my first Fire Emblem title ever.
Of course, what's even more disheartening is the fact that nearly EVERYONE here is defending the censorship. Sigh...
Well, I thought that Soleil would only be available to S support with FeMU, not MaMU.
I wonder how this scene turned in the end.
LOL! Oh man next time i read there's a game that's been censored by the big N. I'm immediately coming here! You guys are savages! XD
@TheRedCap30 I have to wonder, how much does the game forces you to do this?
IIRC, last time I heard you could chose simply to not do this segments.
Unless this is the only way to S support someone, then yes, it;s kind of forced.
Thank God for that.
I don't know what would've happened to western civilization had this been left in....
I'm in the group that doesn't mind his scene, I guess it's because I love fire emblem and I don't really want the game to be changed from Japan to UK but yeah I guess this scene is kinda unnecessary I just hope they replace it even if just slightly like a confident boosting potion. Out of interest are gay relationships in the game or did Nintendo say no to that?
The scene seems incredibly daft whether it's homophobic or not - the game wont lose anything from its removal.
Of course, I can see localisation having concerns over this. That being said, I've seen FAR worse things in video games. I think it should have just been left the way it is. It's a fantasy game with fictional characters. People need to calm down.
@DoctorOverbuild Nintendo just released a statement confirming that gay marriages are an option in all 3 versions of the game. So yeah they're doing the right thing.
Oh and since there will probably be a separate article for that statement and this one has died down I will reiterate again that I'm glad certain people have been alienated by this game. If this optional content not a part of the main story is too much for you or your drug scene that is no more is that precious to you then good riddance. There's plenty of better JRPG strategy games coming out on the market this year so you're definitely not missing out, because it's not like you were even fans to begin with.
Oh and these changes in fates being compared to Zelda being turned into an FPS...
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate it 12 for weird. Glad its gone
@TheAceofMystery I find your comment ironic considering those against censorship are just as loud as the "social justice warriors".
@AlanJones84 - I agree. I believe it's the same with sex in games. The industry is general is too premature and they're not taking the topic seriously thus it gets thrown around and sometimes starts stuff. But as this is a serious topic, we can't back away from it.
I don't get. Sean Connery did it in Goldfinger. Vin Diesel did it recently in Riddick. Why can't I do it?
We all knew this game was never, in a million years, going to escape the grasp of the Treehouse.
I'm just thankful this is all they've deemed necessary for removal... thus far
@TheLastLugia So is it as open as it is Japan anyone with anyone, or is it only a few certain characters?
Nintendo censoring a scene? NO WAY!
@MadAdam81 Do you really want to live your life bundled in cotton wool in case some nasty foreign attitude hurts your feelings? Personally I'd rather the censorship brigade would just stop telling us all what we are allowed to see... also learning japanese is quite hard.
@headfirstslide just because you don't think it is needed does not mean it does not have a point within the story. It's adding extra. That's like taking out the fact Dumbledor died and just never mentioning him again. NOT LIKE it was important.
There should be a release of for the UK and it should be a separate copy version from the US version. I'm about tired of this censorship!
@Miiamoto Translating to a different language and culture isn't censorship. And Nintendo only localise Nintendo games, each developer localises their own games.
@MadAdam81 You obvoiusly have a limited understanding of censorship - this should help you: 'Self-censorship is the act of censoring or classifying one's own blog, book, film, or other forms of media. This is done out of fear of, or deference to, the sensibilities or preferences (actual or perceived) of others and without overt pressure from any specific party or institution of authority.' So the fact that Nintendo are choosing this themselves makes no difference.
@Miiamoto Yet so many things get lost in translation in entertainment, from books to tvs to movies to games. Should each translation only be a direct word for word translation less they be accused of censorship?
Because Earthbound, Astroboy and many more have more differences between original and English versions than recent NIntendo games.
@MadAdam81 Lost in translation is one thing, but removing sections of games or entire character arcs is quite another. Also Earthbound was totally butchered and is a prime example of the problems of censorship, so I'm not sure how mentioning it really helps your argument. Are you saying it's okay to go around censoring stuff because it's happened in the past?
@MadAdam81 Also word for word acuracy should always be the goal with a translation. It's probably impossible and certain changes may be unavoidable, but it should always be the initial aim. The whole point is to allow the audience to understand a foriegn game - not to dilute it and change the way it plays. Imagine a samurai film where they digitally make everyone wear cowboy hats:- has the film been localised or destroyed?
@NintendoFan64 People like you are hypocrites, and ignorant.
Games of Thrones has rape in it. RAPE. This is a story about people KILLING each other. IN a fantasty world. If sheomeone drugs and rapes someone that is FAIR. That should be allowed in a work.
White/american people have a misconception, their applying their idea of drugging, which tehy really mean is that date rape stuff, to a situation and a culture that aren't thinking about it. And somehow being stupid enough not to recognize that.
And it is not a fault of nintendo. It is a fault on you.
I'm not a white guy but I am a westerner. Lots of people watch anime, and manga, and they don't have any problem making that connect.
I wasn't born in the U.S. I don't quiver at the differences in culture, all confused and scared and unable to comprehend things.
It is not difficult. IF you see this, you should accpet it as part of this world. In this world, in this ancient, not modern world, this happens.
You can slip someone a perfectly healthy drug(vitamins). You can slip someone a perfectly benign drug.
The end result was just a difference of perspective.
I don't see how anyone can justify censorship. And that's what this was. This was Master Roshi drinking a water with foam because children can't handle the existence of beer.
All of you are saying that you are such children, you can't handle this.
@Blues So...you went to an article from 8 months ago, talking about something that people have moved on from, probably forgotten about and most likely don't even care about anymore at this point, just to lecture on how I'm an overly sensitive child who can't grasp cultural differences? Because it sounds to me like you're the child here, not me. Because I'm not the type of person who does this type of ****. People have moved. I bet most people have completely forgotten about this. Let. It. GO.
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