Buried within the details of Nintendo's recently announced second quarter earnings for 2015 it was revealed that the Wii U has now sold 10.73 million units. While this will be a small consolation to the bean counters at Nintendo (after all the original Wii has sold a whopping 101 million units to date), it is significant as we can finally say the humble Wii U has outsold Sega's ill-dated Dreamcast, which only managed to shift 10.6 million units before it was put out to pasture.
Of course, it's taken Nintendo a lot longer to get there - the Dreamcast achieved its sales total in only 18 months before the plug was pulled. Thankfully Nintendo saved for a rainy day during the prosperous Wii/DS era and has been able to keep the Wii U ticking over for just shy of 3 years, despite the stagnant sales.
The Dreamcast was Sega's final throw of the hardware dice and the reasons for its failure were many. A lack of third party support didn't help, and the company's over-reliance on arcade conversions also put off those who had grown up with the deeper, more involving games of the PlayStation and N64 era. Poor support of online services was another black mark, as was the lack of a DVD drive - something that the PlayStation 2 boasted, and helped Sony's machine get under millions of TV sets the world over. The combination of all these factors certainly pulled the console down, but like the Wii U, that's not to say that the system was a complete failure. It was blessed with many amazing games - just like Nintendo's console - and is undoubtedly a hardware classic.
With Nintendo's move into mobile gaming next year starting with Miitomo and the launch of the Nintendo NX platform, it's highly likely the Wii U will be sent off to bed in late 2016. If the projection of another 3.4 million unit sales is achieved during the next year we might well see the Wii U's lifespan end up being closer to 15 million units sold. Not amazing, but still better than the Dreamcast ever managed.
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I can't see taking it off my gaming center when I get my NX. It's all use to browse the internet as well unless I am uploading photos or if I need to send an email with attachments.
Not sure it's time to celebrate when it takes 3 years to match the sales that a flop of a console achieved in 18 months, but it's something. To be even more of a downer, the Wii U figure is shipped. There could easily be over half a million in retail channels, when the same can not be said of the Dreamcast figure...
I think the Wii U will be remember similarly to the DC. I don't think the Nintendo machine's library is quite as good, lacking all the amazing new IP the DC had, which often came in entirely new genres, and it's innovation of the gamepad isn't really pushing things forward as much as the DC's innovative modem, but they're both consoles that deserves to sell far better than they did.
Woohoo
Well, at least the system dodged that silver bullet! Just in time for Halloween too!
@TomJ Lolwut? It will only live three years before 2016. 2016 is a set time. Since it launched in 2013, it'll live to be three years before 2016 no matter what.
If you mean before its shut down, if the NX launched in 2016 (and that's a BIG if), then it'll have lived 4 years.
Personally I think the NX is dead in the water if it launches in 2016. It needs to be massively powerful and release no sooner than 2017. If its underpowered and acts as a stopgap, its dead.
If its overpowered too soon it'll be overwhelming to developers who would probably prefer to stick to Xbone/PS4, and consumers won't want to buy it because it'd be too expensive.
And frankly, I think Nintendo would rather have very few games for a year than to launch the NX too early. (They can always fill it up with more VC.)
Loved my Dreamcast, love my Wii U... heck I loved my Sega Saturn too for that matter!
I have to wait till next year to get a Wii U.... And the worst part is that I'll never get much out of it by the time I get it.
Yay and just for doing that the Wii U deserve a port of Shenmue 3.
... If you need me, I'll be crying in the corner over there.
Well, Wii U was released three years ago and Dreamcast was discontinued very early. Wii U is Nintendo's most unsuccessful console*, so I don't know what we are celebrating here...
*Virtual Boy was not properly supported nor released in Europe.
Dreamcast.....certainly the most underrated console of all time! I proudly still have mine in mint condition and 28 games that look like I just bought them 5 minutes ago at EB Games. Then again, I love my Wii U just as much. Congrats to Nintendo, I guess!
Doesn't this just show how much of a fail the Wii U actually is?
The Dreamcast didn't fail. Sega went bust. Sega failed.
That's not entirely accurate. The DC only lasted that 18 months in the West, but it was released in Japan nearly a full year earlier and that was during a time when console sales were much bigger there.
@NintendoFan4Lyf I don't think so, bear in mind that Nintendo still produces consoles so Wii U games will easier find their way in future Nintendo hardware.
@VanillaLake Unless Nintendo decides to ditch backwards compatibility, note the sad reality of the current gen console with most sales has absolutely none.
Even though I got my Dreamcast late (3 months after I bought it, I heard Sega was closing it...even got a refund for the magazine subscription after only receiving one issue), and had to rush to buy games and accessories for it, I loved the system...it just seemed that it was too far ahead of its time. It had some wonderful games (Sonic Adventure, Speed Racers, Looney Tunes Space Racer, Illbleed, Floigan Brothers, Stupid Invaders, Omikron The Nomad Soul, Sword Of Berserk, Time Stalkers, Evolution, Evolution 2, Skies Of Arcadia, Dragon Riders Chronicles of Pern and even Tee Off). Even though, it seemed to have good 3rd part support, just not much (like the Gamecube, which I also loved), but a great system.
The Wii U is also a great system, though I don't think it was AS great. Wasn't the Gamecube also compared to the Dreamcast??? The gamecube had many great games (enough to take my collection up to 160 titles), and many people put that system down. In all honesty, I don't really care about how a system does throughout it's lifespan, as long as I get my money's worth out of it and have many games that I can come back to and play. I still own my Dreamcast, Gamecube, NES, Super NES, Genesis, 32X, Atari 2600, and N64, and have no reason to give them up.
As long as Nintendo keeps the NX going, I'm fine...I'll get it when it comes out, but probably not until income tax returns in 2017. I just hope that they have some really good quality games out for it by then and coming out later on. As long as the NX has Amiibo support, a decent virtual console library going for it (not just the same ones that have been released on the Wii and Wii U), incredible indie games and the 3rd party support that they deserve and add Wii U titles to the E-Shop, I think they could do good. I don't see it being backwards compatible with the Wii U games though (that requires them to put chips in for the Wii and Wii accessories too, which would raise the console's price...something that they won't be able to do when it comes out).
It finally did it. But it still took way longer to get it done.
@NintendoFan4Lyf Consoles always seem to get love 10 or more years down the line. I still see people go into classic game stores looking for N64, Dreamcast, Genesis, NES and even Atari games to date. There's something there about playing the classics and enjoying them. The only thing that will stink about getting a Wii U 20 or more years down the line, is that you won't be able to download anything on it (which is where almost the whole Wii U library is), which limits to just the few games that are available as retail.
Whoop-de-doo.
@gcunit
sega dont failed we failed sega sega is still 1 off the best they will come back 1 day i just no it and yes i still like nintendo P.S.support the dreamcast on till the end i just wish that i had the net back in the day
Before now, naysayers were constantly touting that the Wii U was a failure because it didn't even pass Dreamcast numbers.
Now that the Wii U has passed Dreamcast numbers, the naysayers have shifted their argument and still say the Wii U is a massive failure because it took longer.
What?
Guess if the PS4 doesn't beat out 80 million by the end of it's life, it'll be a failure, too, right?
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Sega didn't fail at all.
Dreamcast is one of the most beloved consoles ever, and have tons of good games and a huge library.
Dreamcast was the last ever console that impressed me. It made N64 and PS1 look really outdated already in 1998!
Gamecube, Xbox, Wii, Wii U, PS4, PS3, 360 etc. is only upgraded "Dreamcast hardware". Dreamcast was the last ever big upgrade on console hardware.
As someone else said here.. Customers failed Sega.
Our little Wii U is all grown up. No longer a cult darling.
@JaidynReiman wii u came out in 2012
@Peterocity I mistyped. My mistake.
Um... 'over-reliance on arcade conversions also put off those who had grown up with the deeper, more involving games of the PlayStation and N64 era. Poor support of online services was another black mark, as was the lack of a DVD drive'
The only one of those things that is actually accurate or even a thing is the DVD drive. And that was more of a Japanese and European thing. As for the arcade games, that was actually a huge selling point for the Dreamcast and the majority of the high profile SEGA arcade releases were filled with extra content for the home release and were well received both sales-wise and critically. Games like Virtua Tennis and Crazi Taxi 1&2 actually set the bar for home arcade releases. As to the comment on the about poor support for online services - there was no bellwether for online console gaming at the time. There was nothing to compare it to, and broadband wasn't really a thing at the time (even though SEGA had support for it), I played every online release in the US and never had issues. The only problem I ever had was rage quitters... especially playing NFL 2K. They'd complain, I'd show them the replay and they would quit. Or sometimes they would just quit. But no other system... not even the big lie that was the PS2... could offer that experience. None of my friends who didn't have a Dreamcast even understood what I was talking about until they'd come over to check out online gaming. I'd say about 75% of them bought a Dreamcast within a week of experiencing Dreamcast's online play. The Dreamcast had better online support than both the Gamecube and the Wii, and has never been a part of the story of Dreamcast's demise. That was mismanagement, micromanagement, corporate in-fighting, cultural clashes, unreasonable financial demands and quotas, pirating of software, deceptive and extensive marketing by SONY for the incredibly over-hyped (that's a nice way of saying they basically lied) PS2, 9/11 and the fallout (including the global financial impact, delayed shipments, delayed and cancelled games... one of which would have really highlighted SEGA's online gaming).
To kind of drive home the point that the Dreamcast in it's short 18 months actually had good support given it was the pioneer and the first to do online out of the box:
Alien Front Online
Ooga Booga
Propeller Arena (planned, but not official - still supported online for a while)
Starlancer
Worms World Party
Outtrigger
Unreal Tournament
Daytona USA
F355 Challenge
POD Speed Zone
Speed Devils Online
Phantasy Star Online ver1
Phantasy Star Online ver2
Bomberman Online
Chu Chu Rocket
Maximum Pool
Next Tetris: Online Edition
NBA 2K1
NBA 2K2
NCAA College Football 2K2
NFL 2K1
NFL 2K2
PBA Bowling 2001 (not official, still supported online for a while)
World Series Baseball 2K2
SEGA Swirl
That is a list of online games in North America/USA. In basically 18 months. All of them playable, nearly all of them really good to great games.
Japanese online:
Aero Dancing FSD - Tsubasa's Virgin Flight
Chu Chu Rocket
Guruguru Onsen
Golf Shiyouyo 2 : The New Challenge
I'm pretty sure I even missed a few on both lists
And as a nice kick in the teeth to other systems that boasted online gaming shortly after the Dreamcast, a lot of them were also cross-regional; you could play with others around the world. That was actually a huge part of SEGAs online culture. All of this while the company/corporate was melting down around them.
Now compare that to LIFETIME online support for REALLY GOOD TO EXCELLENT games on the Gamecube, Wii, PS2... hell even the Wii U, if you really think about it. It's been out 3 years. Compared to 18 months. The great games for online play are almost exclusively first-party titles... and there isn't exactly a flood of them.
So I don't really know where you're coming from or how you came to that conclusion, but if you want to point to DVD, certainly that was a factor; they might have (according to the things I heard/overheard at E3) could have boosted sales by about 15-20%... maybe 25% with a pack-in movie and game. According the number that SEGA of America were being told to hit in order to stay in business, it may have been just enough to keep the production lines running, but obviously that would have changed their margin on the system and the price itself, so who can really say.
This system has also been a standout because of it's unmatched launch lineup, in terms of quality especially.
As far as the arcade statement:
Here are the top selling games for the Dreamcast in America - These all sold over a MILLION copies in the Dreamcasts short life:
Sonic Adventure 2.5 million
Soulcalibur 1.3 million
Crazy Taxi 1.225 million approximately: 1.11 million in the US 115,039 in Japan
Shenmue 1.2 million
Resident Evil Code: Veronica 1.14 million
NFL 2K 1.13 million in the US
NFL 2K1
Seaman
Sega Rally Championship 2
Virtua Fighter 3tb
Four arcade games in the top 10, two selling over a million. I'd say SEGA knew what it was doing. And in terms of depth of play, Dreamcast had the most diverse and eclectic game library of any system at the time and included online RPGs, JRPGs action adventure, Shenmue, Resident Evil Code Veronica and many, many more rich gaming experiences. You are very much wrong outside of the DVD claim. It just irritates me that after all of this time, and knowing what really went down now (with behind the scenes details), I still see articles like this that get it wrong.
Deeper more involved game of the Playstation and N64? Really? For the lova crap... just wow. Just, no.
Edit: I also know people like to drag out the 3rd party support trope, but other than EA (and especially in light of the Saturn) 3rd party support was fairly massive, all things considered. Many developers represented across an impressive spectrum of genres.
Dreamcast was the better console of the two, it's true, and hard to argue against.......not that the Wii U doesn't have some stellar titles as well.
This isn't exactly something to boast about. It took Nintendo's Wii U almost three years to do what the company with a huge bad rep after the saturn , and everyone thought was basically dead, did in only a couple? i like the Wii U and Nintendo, but wow isn't that sad.
Man, I miss the Dreamcast. Sucks SEGA had to end their consoles.
@Tsusasi Definitely! The arcade conversions and SEGA's online supports were big strengths for the DC, not weaknesses. A wired attempt at revisionist history here.
And people wonder why Nintendo is bringing out NX a "measly" 4 years after Wii U.
@Tsusasi
lol u mad
Eh, I still love my Wii U. No regrets.
@gatorboi352 Lol... naw, just annoyed. It's kind of like when you hear someone talking about something that happened to someone you know and they're getting it all wrong so you want to make sure the story gets told accurately. So maybe a little annoyed. Especially since we now have multiple behind the scenes scoops available at our fingertips.
@Peach64
what she said
Abysmal.
It's a shame really. I do love that little console and it's stocky controller.
LOL! wow...the salt is everywhere! the Dreamcast to me was on par with my N64 when it came to replayability because after MGS and Silent Hills my Playstation was only used for Marvel vs Capcom but even then i would prefer MvC2 on the Dreamcast.
its funny how much people get torn up emotionally about sales figures because in my eyes the Dreamcast was far from a flop and the proof was in its library...and those same people praising the Dreamcast probably didnt own one or support until it was cool to say it was great which is obtuse to me since they were on the console war hype train. I purchase consoles for their game library not to have something to write about on web sites or do a blog rant. So i guess it'll be hysterical to hear the same people praise the Wii U years laters?
Owned a Dreamcast from early 2000, it was better...
Dreamcast still has 3rd support....
But, the dreamcast is still getting games for it. Will the WiiU still be getting new games 14 years later?
Lol but seriously, congratulations WiiU!
Look at all the Dreamcast supporters!! I LOVE IT!!! I use to get laughed at when I mentioned the Dreamcast as one of my favorite consoles of all time. Didn't understand the humor in that when it was way ahead of it's time and it's library resume speaks for itself. DREAMCASTERS UNITE!!!
Wii U failed harder than DC if you ask me. It didn't brought half as much innovation the DC brought at the time. The DC was one of the first home consoles (if not the first) to implement online support with online matches through a 56k modem, back when broadband didn't event exist at homes. VMU concept was particularly brilliant. DC was also graphically superior to anything on the market back then.
The expensive costs to produce the machine, exclusive GD media (killed straight by PS2's DVD) and some other financial and marketing problems involving SEGA actually killed it. The library in its lifespan was strong, the launch sales were strong. It just came in the wrong moment with some bad decisions, just like the Wii U.
Whee.
@WanderingPB it's interesting how the Dreamcast is viewed as a failure. Sales-wise it broke many records, it had a launch library that ANY company should be jealous of to this day, it and it's software was received well, it's online capabilities praised and it was truly a Hollywood darling as it showed up in everything from award shows, to TV shows to movies. It's momentum was actually on the uptick spectacularly and had there not been so much mismanagement and debt to overcome, those sales figure would have continued to climb and Dreamcast would have flourished.
The Dreamcast didn't fail, SEGA of Japan failed the Dreamcast... AND they failed SEGA of America (and to an extent but not as viscerally/personally, SEGA in Europe).
@Tsusasi i concur my friend and so eloquently said! I belted out an "EXACTLY!" at the laundromat reading ur reply LOL!
@WanderingPB It's a much more pleasant experience talking about classic consoles. They're retired, and exist outside of the current inane culture of number-crunching and fanboy wars. Even the much-derided Wii is starting to be seen us 'underrated' (as I predicted) - and the same will happen with Wii U.
It's a well-made piece of kit with an array of awesome games; in the end, this is what will be remembered most of all.
It's funny that some people see this as an achievement.
Well that's nice and all, but Nintendo never cared about the Dreamcast, they only cared about Gamecube sales. Let me know when Wii U tops that number. Add a "U" were appropriate in the following.
.
http://www.1up.com/news/iwata-wii-doesn-outsell-gamecube
"Satoru Iwata said,"I do not intend to declare how many Wii we will be selling today, but Wii will be a failure if it cannot sell far more than GameCube did. In fact, we shouldn't continue this business if our only target is to outsell GameCube. Naturally, we are making efforts so that Wii will show a far greater result than GameCube.""
After the success of the Wi selling 101 million, only selling 10% of that with it's follow up makes Wii U sales look even worse, they had all that momentum and let it go away.
To echo previous posts — the on-line for the Dreamcast was basically ahead of its time. Remember the DC came and went before Xbox Live launched in 2002 — which did a large part to spur on-line gaming. The biggest issue was when Sega pulled the plug on the system, it shortly thereafter shut down the on-line servers. Only the few games with independent servers could be played on-line after that.
There is zero evidence that suggests the Nx is releasing next year. None.
The dream cast still gets games. OAO This is news to me! Good news of course!
All my favorite games are in that pic...sigh
10 million worldwide would still make it Nintendo's worst-selling home console yet, with only the Virtual Boy selling worse. ... and presumably the Pokemon Mini.
To people who thought the 3DS was going to turn into a color VB after it came out, the system has actually sold more than the SNES/SFC.
Yeah, Mr. Calvert and NintendoLife really screwed this article up, big time. I'm rather disappointed. @Tsusasi is on the mark, their comment may as well have been the article. Great comment, Tsusasi!
@Kage_88 well said my friend! It seems that the ranting negativity is much more entertaining than actually playing the games..."i love to rant because i dont play video games and i dont play video games because i love to rant"...what a vicious cycle huh? LOL!
NX is too soon for 2016, 2017 is more likely. Holiday 2016 could be possible, but doubt it. Anyway, what interesting of Wii U sales is that it mostly stable year-on-year, instead of declining. The software also sold very well. It's sad to see the hardware figures, though I'm sure Wii U will turns profitable for Nintendo.
This article is just so, so wrong. The Dreamcast isn't a flop, it's one of the best consoles of all time. It's Sega (of America especially) that screwed up, especially with the Sega CD, 32x, and Saturn. To say the Dreamcast lacked depth and 3rd party entries is flat out wrong. It certainly beat out the Wii U in those regards, especially considering it's time period. Sega couldn't do much about DVD's at the time, either- they were still rather expensive, and Sony had a headlock on the DVD market leading up to the PS2 era.
I didn't have one myself, but a childhood friend did, and we played the hell out of that thing. We especially favored Soul Calibur, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Power Stone 2, Blue Stinger, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, and of course, Sonic Adventure 1 & 2. I would later come to appreciate classics like Phantasy Star Online, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, and the Sakura Taisen series, among many others.
Also, this article does not clarify whether that's 10.7 million units SHIPPED, or SOLD... I'm willing to bet that number is shipped, not sold through, which means the Wii U may not have actually outsold the Dreamcast just yet...
And there was much rejoicing.
@PlywoodStick "One of the best selling consoles of all time"
How big's the list you're using?!
@BinaryFragger I agree with you in general but I also think the Wii comparisons people do aren't fair. I actually think it's a problem that even Nintendo uses the Wii as the prime example of "how it's done". That thing was an exception because it didn't sell as a gaming console. It sold as a thing that people put in their living room because it was trendy and because it was cheap and you could use it for Netflix.
I think the Wii U didn't do as bad as media makes it out but it did way worse than most Nintendo-fans want to accept.
@Damo One of the best in overall offerings, not one of the best selling. Even then, the Dreamcast wasn't performing poorly in sales for it's time. If the Dreamcast is a flop, then the Wii U is an abysmal failure.
Nintendo is much more well organized than Sega was, which makes the Wii U's sales performance all the more bitter. The Wii U has good games, but Nintendo seems to have lost the ability to know how to market their (and 3rd party) products. DeNA will need to significantly help them out with that for the mobile sphere and NX.
"the humble Wii U has outsold Sega's ill-dated Dreamcast, which only managed to shift 10.6 million units before it was put out to pasture."
The Dreamcast sales number is incorrect. At the date of cancellation, according to Sega's annual report, the Dreamcast had sold 8.2 million units, not 10.6 million units. The lifetime sales number of 10.6 million, which includes the time after cancellation when they were clearing units out for $49. So no, the Dreamcast did not sell 10.6 million units in only 18 months, that's the lifetime sales number.
@NintendoFan4Lyf @Grumblevolcano Well, I expect NX to have a touch screen at least the mobile device if it's finally an hybrid concept. Who knows? I expected much more of Wii U's Virtual Console, very few games available, it's very sad, specially in Europe where we were starting to get NTSC versions.
@Peach64 The two new IPs that Nintendo did put out on the Wii U, Wonderful 101 and Splatoon, totally remind me of the type of games that Sega put out on the Dreamcast, especially Splatoon. Kind of funny in hindsight.
@Peach64
I'm not really sure they will be remembered similarly at all. Dreamcast was a powerful console with many forward-thinking ideas and most importantly, for its short time on the market it had possibly the best ratio of good-to-bad games of any console ever. Wii U has a great library, no question, but I definitely wouldn't say as good as DC's and it certainly isn't a forward-thinking console. It felt like more of a reactionary console than Nintendo coming up with its own quirky ideas. Hopefully the NX will be a return to form, though it doesn't really need to innovate much to get my attention. Just give me a powerful console with a standard controller, a better online setup (which seems to be on the way) and the ability to play the Mortal Kombats and GTAs on the same console as Super Mario and The Legend of Zelda and I'll be there day one.
Sega Dreamcast for me was the best system ever. Especially for me as PAL user we had finally 60hz option and Sega Dreamcast gave me that option. I enjoyed many many games and phantasy star online episode 1 and 2 i'm keep coming back. Glad it was released on gamecube. Somehow the gamecube gave me the next Dreamcast feeling, but sadly the WII and WII U didn't come near to the game library as the Dreamcast and Gamecube did. Very sad
@Savino
A fad that lasted four years and outsold the competition by a good margin. If Wii was a fad, so were PS2, PS1 and NES which were all highly dominant consoles of their respective generations.
@amiiboacid
Well, this article gives some evidence that the Wii U is barely holding on and needs a replacement. Nintendo pre-announced an announcement for a new console close to a year in advance. There are insider anonymous reports from people who have had a peek at early hardware. There's the delaying of games and an incredible lack of news on releases for any but smaller games for the Wii U as if to stretch interest in it as far as possible before dropping it. Nintendo's developers are busy on something after all. There's the convergence of the hardware departments long ago, the continual stretching of 3DS interest with the New 3DS. Official Nintendo slip-up suggesting that any new game would end up on the NX now. Plenty to gather reading between the lines of all this as well.
Not exactly zero evidence. Certainly the timing is still a question and seems everything Nintendo does is delayed by 6 months at least during these hard times for the company, but I'd bet money there is a plan a or b somewhere in Nintendo that shows NX launching before the end of 2016.
Arcade titles and online functionality described as negatives for the dc????!!!!!! What planet was that on then? Here on earth, console online was pioneered by the dreamcast. It was also lovely of sega to send free copies of chu chu rocket for people to try it online. Also recall quake 3 (i think it was 3 anyway) online, good and laggy times!
seriously though, seeing the dc online as a negative is quite possibly the stupidest thing ive heard/ read in a long long time. It was a great shame that here in uk, most parts of the country just didnt have access to adequate net speeds to do the online justice..
Also forgot about the 60 hz option the dc introduced for us lowly european neanderthals. The dreamcast truly was a revolution at the time and has paved the way for a number of things which are now pretty much taken for granted.
Truly ahead of its time, its no surprise to me that the dc is so fondly remembered, and deservedly so.
@TheVidiot This is interesting in combination with another comment that it launched in Japan a year earlier. Do you have a source on this?
Either way, sales numbers are useful to a point, and I'm interested in my favorite game studios, publishers and hardware builders staying in business, of course, but... I'm a gamer first. The best console is the one I enjoyed the most and it rarely coincides with sales numbers at all for me.
Now we can finally move onto the new argument "YEAH THE WIIU BEAT THE DREAMCAST BUT LOOK HOW LONG IT TOOK". Obviously sales numbers are better than the fun you have with the system. Sometimes I forget what games the Dreamcast even had cause nobody talks about that, just the demise of Sega consoles.
Lol thank you for posting this anyway though, I saw a fresh article go by on my news app from Oct 18 saying "WiiU sells 10million units. Dreamcast still winning at 10.5" and it went on to say the WiiU could never catch up. Wtf, yeah the WiiU will never sell 500,000 more units. That article made no sense.
I don't really like direct comparisons of sales figures alone because it hides a lot of the finer details that explain why what happened actually happened.
The Dreamcast was discontinued 18 months after the US Launch. It had already been released in Japan for 27 months by that point. The Dreamcast didn't disappear from the shelves 18 months after the US launch it was still selling(I can't find it but a prior comparison to the WiiU there was a chart found showing the Dreamcast sold an extra 1 million in the US after being discontinued). Before discontinuation the Dreamcast was selling 6 times less than the WiiU goes for.
If the Dreamcast really sold 10.66 million units in 18 months it wouldn't be discontinued that quickly would it? Its not Playstation but those are pretty good sales figures. The reality is that the Dreamcast had failed to sell in Japan, they continuously sliced the price down to $50 in the US and ~£30 in the UK, it was easily piratable so few were buying software, the most expensive game ever made up to that point(Shenmue) was released on the system and sold barely more than 1 million(and Sonic Adventure sold under 2.5 million across the DC's life time).
Despite only now reaching the Dreamcast's life time sales the WiiU is a different story. It has sold 10.77 million in just under 3 years, its price is still very close to what it started at. It isn't easy to pirate for. A lot of Nintendo's software sell close to or over 1 million and some of them 3-6 million(With Mario Kart 8 selling to over 50% of the userbase) and a brand new IP Splatoon managed to sell over 2.5 million in less than 6 months and they managed to push a successful side venture with it through Amiibo.
Ah, the Dreamcast. A lot of good games I played on there. I just might plug it in and play if soon.
@VanillaLake
Well said & they're a lot more gaming customers now than in the late 1990s, early 2000s. I had a Dreamcast, and I own a Wii U, and I will say quality wise, the Wii U wins.
@Dankykong The Wii U has shipped more than the Dreamcast lifetime, but not necessarily sold through more. We have to keep in mind the many factors at work against the Wii U selling additionally made units, or even the ones already shipped. For all we know, if momentum is not gained for this holiday season, the Wii U may not ever breach 10.6 million units sold through. That's not absolutely going to happen, but it's still a possibility. Even the fact that such a possibility exists is truly pathetic for Nintendo.
The Wii U has good games, but with such abysmally low sales numbers compared to the Wii, or even the GameCube, we are forced to ask how to rectify such a failure for the NX.
@Dr_Lugae Good information! There's one nagging point, though- how do we know those 10.77 million units are not just being reported by Nintendo as "sold" to doll up the figures, when in reality, those numbers could just be units shipped, not actually sold through? It's not uncommon for companies to do that, so they can maximize their investor outlook and outward appearance.
That graph is interesting, too. The Dreamcast definitely has the best momentum of the three listed there, it only fell apart after the second year. It makes me wonder how much more the Dreamcast would have climbed if Sega (of America, especially) hadn't screwed up with the previous systems?
@PlywoodStick That is a good point we can't tell for sure but due to how slow the system has been selling I wouldn't expect it to be far off. I remember There was a point where there was an abundance of unsold WiiUs and in 2013 there was either a quarter where Nintendo had a negative value for the number of shipped WiiUs in Europe(because stores/companies were shipping them back to Nintendo).
I think at this point stores probably would be very willing to hold onto surpluss WiiUs or order much more than the projected demand for each quarter for Nintendo to inflate the shipped numbers by much.
I'm too young to really remember the Dreamcast, but it seems to me that console was years ahead of its time. Perhaps it serves as a good lesson that too much innovation isn't a good thing.
JET SET RADIO! HAHA brings back memories.
@Savino "People bought the console, played some Wii Sports and leave it to get a lot of dust in a conner!"
Well that might be true for some, but you are forgetting about the Wii Fit Balance Board which came out a couple of years after Wii, sold for $80, and they sold over 40 million of those.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/01/wii_balance_board_enters_record_books
So it's not just a Wii Sports machine, it's a Wii Sports and Wii Fit machine. And people where buying both by the 10s of millions.
I do agree with your premise that Wii did nothing for Nintendo. Many people who own a Wii and Wii Fit Balance Board don't know who Nintnedo is. But the fact that the Wii console sold 100 million, and another 40 million $80 Wii Fit boards, means there was momentum for the Wii - not Nintendo - but Ntinedo is the company that let the Wii momentum slip away by naming Wii 2 Wii U instead and making people think the Gamepad was an add on for the Wii and making Wii U $349 w/ a game compared to Wii $249 w/ Sports.
But the Wii momentum was there, even if people didn't know the company behind it. There are probably lots of PS2 owners who didn't know it was Sony, just that they owned a Playstation. And Sony nearly blew it w/ PS3 by pricing itself out of the market like Nintendo blew it w/ Wii U by pricing itself out of the market, and no marketing, and the strange name, and no marketing. Can never say "no marketing' enough w/ Nintendo. But Sony recovered w/ PS3 by advertising and continually slashing the price year after year. Nintneod launched Wii U at $299 and $349, lowered the $349 price to $299 1 year later, and has maintained that $299 price ever since, even though sales have never picked up.
Wii had momentum, Nitneod lost it, and never made any real effort to get it back. Announcing NX at E3 was the end.
@Gamer83 thanks for the assist.
@Savino "People bought the console, played some Wii Sports and leave it to get a lot of dust in a conner! Nintendo didn´t made costumers with the Wii"
Sorry but some simple maths can prove that the Wii was not thrown away in a closet after Wii Sports. Take a look at the Wii's system sales and retail software sales.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/
Hardware = 101.59 million
Retail Software(e.g. anything sold on a disk) = 911.03 million
Software per customer: 8.96
To dispell the myth lets assume the worst case scenario and there are 20 million core gamers(e.g. gamecube numbers) and 80 million Wii Sport only owning casuals. Lets look at the Gamecube numbers:
Gamecube: 21.74 million
Software : 208.75 million
Software per customer = 9.6 games average
Now The Wii sold 911.03 million pieces of software, if 80 million casuals owned 1 piece of software that's 831.03 million unaccounted for. This means the 831.03 million software would have to be divided by 20 million "core gamers", this would result in the average "core gamer" needing to buy a staggering 41.55 games. This is more than quadruple what the average Gamecube owner(or most systems actually) was buying. This would actually completley rewrite what made the Wii a success would come from core gamers buying 90% of the software and not casuals.
I'll show you how many games the average core gamer(right) will have to make up the rest of the software based on how many games casuals(left) would buy:
1 ----> 41.55
2 ---->37.55
3 ---->33.55
4 ----> 29.55
5 ----> 25.55
6 ----> 21.55
7 ----> 17.55
8 ----> 13.55
9 ----> 9.55
10 ---> 5.55
Unless the entire Nintendo fanbase started buying massive quantities of games for Wii(including every core gamer buying Wii Sports Resort and Mario Kart Wii twice) only to go back to GC levels with the WiiU the casuals will have had to be buying a similar quantity of Wii games. There probably are a number of people who just played Wii Sports and flung it in the closet but those could only be a very small proportion of the userbase.
@Agent721 I never had the Dreamcast, I remember playing a few games at a friend's and I really liked it. I played Jet Set Radio and Resident Evil Code Veronica.
Wow, Sega has so many games that they have ignored over the years from Saturn, Dreamcast... Panzer Dragon, Jet Set Radio, all those original fighting games, racing games...
@PlywoodStick Can you point out where in the piece it is claimed that the console wasn't any good?
I quote:
"The combination of all these factors certainly pulled the console down, but like the Wii U, that's not to say that the system was a complete failure. It was blessed with many amazing games - just like Nintendo's console - and is undoubtedly a hardware classic."
It really does help if you actually, you know, read the piece before making a comment.
@Tsusasi Where to start?
The console did rely too much on Sega's arcade heritage, and by that point arcades were slowly losing relevance with console gamers - gamers who were playing titles like Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Zelda: OoT, GoldenEye 007, Super Mario 64, Diddy Kong Racing, etc. The Dreamcast's arcade pedigree was amazing IF you were into arcade games (like myself) but to the mainstream player, the library simply wasn't diverse enough - at least not compared to that of the PlayStation, which, lest we forget, had ruled the 32-bit/64-bit market up to that point and had tremendous software support.
The DVD issue - you're really underplaying this. It was a major issue - so much so that Sega Europe even started bundling a DVD player with the console to drive sales. The PS2 got off to a poor start in terms of software but people bought it because when they weren't playing on it they could watch those new-fangled DVDs everyone was talking about. It was a big selling point and a major reason for people not adopting the Dreamcast instead.
Online - Sega made MASSIVE promises about the online capability of the system - the UK ads even claimed you'd be facing off against 6 billion (potential) players. The reality? Chu Chu Rocket was the first online game of note in my part of the world and that came too late to make a difference, and games like Outrigger had the online side stripped away completely in the UK (no idea about the US). While you're correct in saying that there was nothing to compare the machine to in the console arena, the simple fact is that Sega could have made more of the online, but it didn't - or perhaps wasn't able to. That could have been a really unique differentiator for the console.
I lived and breathed the Dreamcast at the time. I got a Japanese console the week after it launched and purchased a PAL system when that was released, too. I spent an insane amount of money on imported software from Japan, and loved every second I spent with the machine. I played through Shenmue twice (Japanese then US version) and loved Skies of Arcadia to bits. However, I'm not so blinkered that I can't see it was a flop in purely commercial terms, and I'm realistic enough to know that the reasons I love the machine (amazing arcade ports, Capcom fighters, etc) are the exact same reasons it didn't find a wider audience. Sega was using the playbook it had for the Saturn era, but the market had moved on - for better or for worse. Arcade ports at the turn of the millennium simply did not sell consoles anymore.
You really have to realise that pointing out that a system didn't sell very well and listing the reasons DOES NOT mean the writer's opinion of the system is poor. Commercial success and critical success are two entirely different things that are sometimes - but not always - connected.
@Dr_Lugae Thank you for this! Though I laughed at the whole, "This means the 831.03 million software would have to be divided by 20 million "core gamers", this would result in the average "core gamer" needing to buy a staggering 41.55 games." because I have over 50 games for my Wii! There, I made up for one person who only played Wii Sports and then shoved the whole thing in a closet!
Just as anecdotal evidence I am part of several Facebook "garage sale" groups and people are always selling their Wiis and assorted paraphernalia and there are never fewer than five games in those posts and usually closer to - you guessed the magic number - nine or ten!
Don't have much to say about the Dreamcast except I had a hell of a time playing Crazy Taxi when my friend got one for Hanukkah back in the day. I was pretty jealous, I literally even considered converting to Judaism (I thought that's how it worked, you become a Jew, you get a Dreamcast, haha). (I was still fairly young at the time.)
Isn't Wii U supposed to outside Dreamcast, given that Wii U has lived longer than Dreamcast AND world population outnumber the same period of Dreamcast?
If you want a system that will be a classic one day like the Dreamcast then get a PS Vita.
This is making me want to pick up a Dreamcast... I've always been fond of the system, even though I never owned one.
@JaidynReiman
I feel the opposite. Nintendo can benefit from the following:
1.) They released the Wii U 1 year before the other consoles released.
2.) They're(apparently) killing off the Wii U 1-2 years sooner than their standard console life cycle time (No less than 5yrs, no more than 6yrs)
3.) The Twins are now seemingly in lifecycles 2-3 years longer than what consoles used to be (7-8 years starting last gen, VS the 5-6 norm), which coincidentally, could end up being the total lifecycle of the U.
4.) The horrible naming choice of the Wii U made it so those outside of Nintendo's die hard, core main audience which is who Nintendo should be (and almost certainly is) targeting with the NX, either never even knew it existed or didn't care.
Add up 1 thru 4 and you have the perfect opportunity for Ninty to slide back in between the twins and attempt to get in on this lifecycle just in time. Ninty's console cycles are 5-6 years, which is what is left of this gen for the Twins. If marketing, pricing, 3rd party relationship rebuilding, etc. is all done perfectly (I don't claim to even begin to know HOW this would be done "perfectly" as I put it, I just feel this way) then Nintendo could have a shot of essentially acting as if the Wii U was either just the last few years of the the original Wii, or never even existed at all.
PS- I'm responding kind of late to this article, therefore not many people may see this, so I am going to make a thread about this, as I'm curious as to others' opinions. Have a nice day, all.
Actually, according to one source (I'll link it) DC was on the market for the same time to get fewer sales than Wii U. It also took a bunch of price cuts on the DC to get to 10.6 million.
http://web.archive.org/web/20080905175406/http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/111822/the-10-worst-selling-consoles-of-all-time/
Wii U isn't selling well, there is no denying that, but it's not selling worse than DC did and its software sales are much stronger than Sega's last foray into consoles.
@Damo "A lack of third party support didn't help, and the company's over-reliance on arcade conversions also put off those who had grown up with the deeper, more involving games of the PlayStation and N64 era. Poor support of online services was another black mark..."
These flat out wrong statements (at least in the USA) seem to imply a contradiction of the notion of it being a classic console, since those points were all the opposite case. They were the main reasons for it's claim to fame and popularity. (At least in the USA.)
Those positive points were somehow twisted into negatives here, possibly even as reasons for it's downfall. (Or as TG1 put it, a revisionist history.) As others have commented and implied, there were behind the scenes reasons for Sega's downfall. You admitted yourself that the console was otherwise "a flop purely in commercial terms", which was the point of this article. Though, that was mostly due to their lack/mismanagement of resources up until then, and not due to the actual performance of the console. Dr. Lugae's linked chart and comment points soundly demonstrates the Dreamcast's positive momentum, despite weaknesses such as low Japanese performance and budgetary concerns, up until Sega folded.
I didn't realize the situation was so different in Europe, which may be where the disconnect is here. All of those points portrayed as negatives here were the opposite in the USA. Arcades and arcade style titles, especially, were still going strong in the late 90s/early 00's over here, and people couldn't get enough of them just yet. It seems the USA was the Dreamcast's best performing region overall, so my perception may be skewed towards our overwhelmingly positive reception.
As for the DVD issue, Sony mostly funded and controlled the DVD market when it began in 1997, just 3 years after the release of the Japanese Saturn. With the Dreamcast releasing in 1998 in Japan to begin accommodating for the Saturn's worldwide failure (though it beat the N64 sales wise in Japan), this left little to no room for Sega to build the Dreamcast around having one within their own console. Sega would have had to increase the price further by $50+, delay the console's release closer to the PS2 release window to account for the DVD's capabilities, and fund their own business rival, which all would have just further sealed their fate. Sega screwed up one too many times, so they were stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I still feel Tsusasi covered all of the rest of the points pretty well.
@PlywoodStick Compared to the PlayStation - which, lest we forget, was the DC's biggest rival, not the PS2 - Sega's console lacked 3rd party support. Sure, it had some interest from 3rd parties but nowhere near the same level as the PlayStation, which was unquestionably the console to beat at the time.
"I didn't realize the situation was so different in Europe, which may be where the disconnect is here. All of those points portrayed as negatives here were the opposite in the USA. Arcades were still going strong in the late 90s over here, and people couldn't get enough of them just yet. It seems the USA was the Dreamcast's best performing region overall, so my perception may be skewed towards our overwhelmingly positive reception."
I'd love to see some evidence of this, because arcades started sliding out of importance all over the world by the time the year 2000 turned around. While I can accept that the situation may have been different in the US, I'm not sure arcade ports were quite the selling point you seem to think - if so, why wasn't the PlayStation 2 flooded with coin-op conversions around the same time? The market was changing at that point as gamers started to demand more from their home games - a port of an arcade title with a few extra modes just didn't cut it anymore. I'm not guessing at this either, I'd already begun writing about games by this point and noticed a critical backlash against the DC's engaging but shallow arcade ports.
(This point is rather moot as the DC did have some amazing original games, such as Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, MSR, Skies of Arcadia, etc - just nowhere near enough of them as Sega didn't have the software support it needed).
DVD issue - Sony never controlled the DVD market at any point. DVD was a widely accepted standard and Sony - like every other big manufacturer at the time - produced DVD players. In fact, around the time I purchased my first DVD player (a Samsung), I recall Sony's own efforts being rather thin on the ground. Yes, it would have added cost to the DC and yes, it would probably have resulted in a delay - I'm not arguing against those things, I'm just saying that NOT having DVD playback really hurt the system. DVD was fresh and new, and DVD players were still expensive, so Sony offering one inside the PS2 was gigantic selling point. I was working in games retail at the time and I saw first-hand the number of people who picked up the system without being bothered about the lack of software (the PS2 really struggled in its first 12 months and the DC arguably had better games) purely because they intended to use the console as a DVD player as well as a games machine.
As for the DC's forward momentum in the US, as has already been pointed out, Sega slashed the price quite aggressively to achieve those sales. It almost certainly performed best in the US, but elsewhere in the world it totally flatlined. Japan in particular.
@Damo I have a better understanding now. Thank you for your input!
@Savino "How the momentum was lost?"
Well I think I said it all in my last post already, but if I had to pick 1 reason Wii U failed I'd say price.
Wii Sports (I feel like that's the name of the system in many peoples minds) was the cheap thing to buy at $249. PS3 was $600, Xbox360 $500. And they didn't come w/ games. Then Wii U comes out at $349 w/ Nintendo Land, and nobody has any idea what a "Nintendo Land" is, b/c most of the people who bought a Wii Sports don't know what a "Nintendo" is. And when they look closer it looks like a Wii but with a tablet, and it plays NSMBU, which they did play and buy on Wii, so why do they need another one, isn't NSMBU just NSMB Wii just in HD?
So $349 is the big thing. $299 Wii U w/o a game looks just like a $249 Wii so no reason to spend $299 on that.
So cost relative to Wii is my #1. (Proven, I htink, by the $400 PS4 selling so much better than the $600 PS3. People were so shocked that PS4 was so much cheaper than PS3, and $100 less than $500 Xbox One w/ Kinect, it flew of the shelves as people saw it as a bargain. Even though it had no games.)
I happen to like the Wii U name, but I do see where the base consoles look so similar could have been a big source of confusion to people. Wii 2 may have done better, or Wii HD. But not much better.
As I mentioned earlier, "Nintendo Land" is a non-starter. "Asynchronous gameplay" - Nintendo's big selling point - is like telling people the dentist is a good thing b/c you can go there and get a "root canal". "Nintendo Land" is possibly a bigger reason than cost, but if Wii U was $199 maybe Nintendo Land becomes a system seller. Super Mario Maker should have been the pack in. Splatoon instead of NSMBU. "Nintendo Land" is the equivalent of "Wii Play" which did sell millions of copies for $50, b/c it was packaged w/ a Wiimote that everybody needed for Wii Sports multiplayer. Nintendo Land should have come w/ a 2nd Gamepad for $80 like Wii Fit Balance Board. Only Nintendo made the Wii U too under-powered to handle 2 Gamepads, another mistake.
My 3rd reason, is that Wii U was just plain unnecessary. MK, SSB, Wii Sports Club, NSMB, Just Dance, Wii Fit - what percentage of Wii U games are available on Wii? Wii has still gotten games like Skylanders. Even this year, though a dumbed down version.
I think if all games stopped on Wii when Wii U launched that could have helped a lot. Not games we care about, but Just Dance and Skylanders do well on Wii. Why buy a Wii U?
And lastly, lack of 3rd party support is a killer for sports fans. FIFA, Madden, MLB. I think some people could survive w/o Destiny or COD or Assassins Creed, but FIFA in the EU and Madden in NA are a deal breaker.
Though I think that is more about keeping Wii U down then killing it from day 1, Nintendo did that on it's own w/ price and Nintendo Land and NSMBU looking just like NSMBWii. No need to upgrade.
And just to get back to your original premise that Wii was Wii Sports and nothing else, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Fit Plus, Wii Sports Resort, Skylanders, Just Dance, Mario Kart, NSMB, Raving Rabbids nonsense. Thats about 8 or 9 games. All casual for the casuals - I didn't mention either Zelda game or SSBB. Wii U never differentiated itself enough from Wii, or too much w/ Nintnedo Land, and the price was never right. Still isn't, it should be $199.
@PlywoodStick No problem, and thanks for your own input. And please don't think we were knocking the system - all of the stuff in the first photo is mine, I love the DC - it's perhaps the last console I REALLY loved before things like full time employment and adult responsibility came along and ruined everything
Hmm... I think I'll get me a Dreamcast one of these days...
I don't think taking twice as long as the Dreamcast to ship more units is anything to brag about. If Sega had more money and the Dreamcast continued it would have sold at least 18 million units which is more than the Wii U will ever sell. Still a decent console though just cant wait for Nintendos final console codenamed NX.
@JaidynReiman nintendo made a mistake too.
I want a dreamcast.
@Rafie More Dreamcast love here: I still have my original system, several controllers, the microphone and Seaman game, plus over 200 other games. And it is still resting comfortably next to my TV in the living room, readily available for a quick play every now and then...
I even updated it with this nice little gizmo around 1,5 years ago, to make it look a hell of a lot better on my 42" HD TV:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/231514034978-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
dreamcast is dank......
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