A few years from now the Wii U will have surely become 'last gen', following the Wii in having occasional Just Dance titles and being available at throwaway prices for those curious about the system. An excellent console it is too, with a retail library full of absolute gems and an eShop that's attracted a range of companies and done much to increase Nintendo's standing in the Indie scene. Its legacy will bring some interesting debate, but this writer and hopefully many others will stand up for the system - it's brought some great games and has helped Nintendo learn valuable lessons while forging strong partnerships with the likes of Tecmo Koei, PlatinumGames and Bandai Namco.
When we talk about retail treasures, though, we're mostly referencing first-party titles or others in which Nintendo's invested money or provided marketing and distribution. There are obvious tie-ins like Hyrule Warriors with Koei, and the sublime Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 with PlatinumGames, while we mentioned Bandai Namco above mainly in honour of the company's vital role in providing resources and a significant partnership with Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. Upcoming releases like Fatal Frame: The Black Haired Shrine Maiden (Koei Tecmo again) and Xenoblade Chronicles X from Monolith Soft join the list of strong experiences from outside of Nintendo that, nevertheless, exist thanks to investment and support from the big N.
When we think of third-party games, though, we go back to the earlier days of the system and find titles that were compromised by publisher decisions or sloppy port work. Some notable counters to this include ZombiU, a terrific showcase for the GamePad, while some developers showed real pride in delivering fantastic ports - let's acknowledge fine examples such as Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut and Need for Speed: Most Wanted U. Capcom did its bit with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, too, with cross-platform multiplayer and save data sharing between Wii U and 3DS.
Yet in the case of Deus Ex and Need for Speed noble development efforts were let down by their tardy arrivals, rocking up months after releases on other platforms. Then there are all the titles that were plonked out on Wii U on time but without much hope - Assassin's Creed III underperformed, so Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag might as well have not bothered once it emerged there'd be no DLC support on Nintendo's console. A couple of Batman ports were underwhelming in either being late or lacking DLC, while Mass Effect 3 arrived on Wii U around the same time as a Trilogy compilation arrived elsewhere. At launch and in 2013, particularly, a number of games were sent out to die by their publishers, on occasion letting down studios that had done good work on the ports. Ubisoft even had one last hurrah on this score with Watch Dogs in late 2014 by releasing it late, in a packed month and without DLC and extras. It never had a chance.
There were more painful examples such as Rayman Legends, a fabulous game delayed multiple times by Ubisoft, on the final occasion to accommodate a tied-in release of PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. That was in the early days but set the trend across various other examples; though the extra development time of the delays did apparently add content to the game, it was a sore one for eager Wii U gamers that thought a lovely early exclusive was on the way.
Ubisoft reacted to poor launch sales of the Wii U in that case, and that's where we see the often discussed circle of doom that engulfed third-party retail support on the system. Major publishers were scared by slow early Wii U sales, so backed off their support. This led to delayed or cancelled releases, only reducing the Wii U's appeal and the odds of it bouncing back to make it viable for those third parties. Add to this the fact that some Wii U ports were out of date and irrelevant to the market - we still can't fathom the logic of Mass Effect 3 - and thus destined to fail, and no-one won. Third-parties made questionable decisions, sales were lousy, so they walked away.
The prompt for these musings on third-party woes was the inevitable confirmation that Project CARS has been canned on Wii U. In some respects it's understandable, as development had shifted to more powerful hardware in the past and the Wii U had somewhat loitered behind. Yet Slightly Mad Studios should take responsibility for disappointment that comes its way; this is a company that talked up what it could achieve on Wii U, spoke of seizing a gap in the system's library and kept a line (along with publisher Bandai Namco) that the game was coming for a while after it was delayed for completion of PS4, Xbox One and PC versions. Then it went quiet, before making silly pre-E3 comments that it'd wait to see if Nintendo revealed new hardware at the show (sources assert that NX was shown to key partners away from the public eye); how that was supposed to be relevant to Wii U gamers, we're not sure.
The narrative had changed; suddenly it wasn't about pushing the Wii U, but it emerged that getting the game to run was the issue. Then a sequel was announced for other platforms, and it was clear that we were just waiting for the word of cancellation. Frankly, it's hard to know how far the Wii U version got - where did potential and early aspiration actually get in the development phase? Was the project dialled back and cancelled long before now? It'll be interesting to try and get answers, or it'll be another Aliens: Colonial Marines, a cancellation that'll be shrugged off almost as an irrelevance. To be fair to Project CARS, though, unlike the Aliens spin-off it was a game we actually wanted to arrive.
Of course, Nintendo is perhaps the most culpable here, that must be said. As the company has acknowledged, it's ultimately responsible for selling units and building an audience, and for various reasons the Wii U has been unable to do that. As we got towards late 2013 it became clear that any sales success for the system would be relative to low standards, and third-parties could not make money on the system at retail. Dissecting the reasons for Wii U's failure to truly seize the market are for another day, but as a result we've relied on Nintendo to keep games flowing. As highlighted at the top of this article, it's arguably done an admirable job in fostering a small but brilliant library of games, though it had little choice but to do just that.
It's not all bad in terms of third-party games, in any case. Fans of Skylanders, Disney Infinity and anything with LEGO in it are rather well served, with just the latter occasionally skipping DLC. Throw in family pleasing franchises like that with a wonderful range of Nintendo-developed or published exclusives, and the Wii U has some truly joyful gaming to offer. One of our few disappointments, in fact, is that it's had less intriguing non-Nintendo retail games, whereas the Wii had quite a number of interesting efforts. Perhaps Nintendo and major players such as Ubisoft, EA and more got it wrong in trying to encourage ports of existing games in the early days. What we needed were more experiences like Boom Blox and Red Steel 2 into 2013 and beyond, titles developed on lower budgets that played into the system's strengths while targeting the Nintendo audience. There were quite a few in the last generation.
The prevalence of ports was, in hindsight, on a hiding to nothing. When there were cheaper, more substantial options on rival systems, a number of these efforts didn't have enough distinguishing features to make them must-haves. Or perhaps that's over-idealistic; some of the excellent third-party retail gems on Wii didn't sell very well either - while this gen's ZombiU met our lofty aspirations but struggled to sell enough units - and the Wii U may have just been the final denouement in this area. As we've said before, Nintendo's become increasingly separate - which doesn't necessarily have to be a complete negative in the future - from the space occupied by Sony and Microsoft.
Undoubtedly, owning a Wii U has led to numerous disappointments and - in the past year or so - complete isolation from the non-Nintendo retail scene. That's not really something to celebrate, but it's a reality that can be accepted. The Wii U has, a bit like Wii, become one of two or more consoles for many - its light-hearted and diverse little range of games is arguably representative of one of Nintendo's best development and publishing spells, with HD visuals blending with new ideas and refined concepts.
Project Cars and its cancellation may have prompted inevitable groans and weary resignation, but it also reminds us of what the Wii U has become, even if this wasn't exactly Nintendo's original plan. It's a box of tricks that's all about the big N and its biggest allies; it keeps delivering memorable gaming in its own unique ways. The loss of one of the last doomed and delayed ports doesn't change that.
Comments 293
Beetle Adventure Racing U, that's what I want to see
Absolutely agreed. My WiiU is both a disappointment and a joy. Showing it to some friends in Brqzil inevitably brought them smiles (specially Yoshi's Wooly World), as a unique platform with unique games. They just loved it BECAUSE it is different, as I do. I'll stick to that.
I was personally very happy with Ass Creed IV. Maybe we got no DLC, but there's so much in the base game that I never even noticed until someone mentioned it on here.
I remember you guys mentioning some technical hiccups that I also never noticed or took any issue with.
I got as many third-party titles as I could/wanted. Ninja Gaiden 3 goes in the camp with Bayonetta 2 and its ilk, and Tekken Tag 2 was a lot of fun and even got its own official stick that other Nintendo Lifers have told me is fantastic. And there's also Arkham City; that one turned out really well, in my opinion, with included DLC and GamePad-specific features that were well integrated.
I didn't know that the Deus Ex port was so good. Need to pick that up, sometime.
Great article, almost 100% spot on, but since I'm here before the haters, I'll just tell you how you can improve it to exactly 100% in their eyes in just 5 measly words:
"It's the Nintendo fans' fault".
As a father of a one and half year old boy I have had just enough games for what I can play. What I like is that each game that I have gotten for my WiiU has been top notch quality. They are well made, enjoyable and as Nintendo does it, above all they are immensely fun.
I still have to complete Hyrule Warriors and Captain toad, but Splatoon is just too much fun atm.
@TheLastLugia The sad thing is that it sort of is. I mean, not all of us, and of course there are other factors like poor hardware sales due to the general public not caring about the Wii U's existence. But there are plenty of Nintendo fans who are at least partially at fault - the guys who only buy Nintendo games on Nintendo systems, flat-out ignoring anything that isn't a system exclusive, absolutely share some of the blame.
Monolith Soft is a first party studio owned by Nintendo.
Nintendo shoulders the majority of the blame here. They have created a console fan base that cares little for 3rd parties. How many people would have bought something like Dark Souls or NBA 2K on the Wii U. Probably too few, since no one would realize these games would be coming out on the system. I just recently bought an Xbox One, and I'm enjoying Tomb Raider and NBA 2K15 as we speak. I have Halo 1-4 bundled with the system and yet to play plus Rare Replay ( 30 games!) reserved. I may not need another console from Nintendo for a very very long time.
You know it's kinda funny. I have owned every Nintendo and play station system and I have more games for the wii u than any others except snes. Partly because they are great games but also because I sell the games that aren't worth keeping (ps games). Wii u is legendary in my opinion.
I have thoroughly enjoyed my Wii U. Tropical Freeze, MK8, Smash 4, 3D World, NSMBU, LEGO City, Pikmin 3, etc. are some of my favorites on the system and I'm sure I'll continue to keep going back and playing them.
I am not one of those people that only buys Nintendo exclusives though as I bought both Batman: Arkham and both Assassin's Creed games that were available on the Wii U. It's a shame many other third-party titles weren't able to come to the Wii U but I have a feeling that was mainly because of developers being scared they weren't going to get a lot of sales as well as the Wii U not being as easy to work with as the other consoles (because they're pretty much the exact same thing with a few exclusives on each).
At this point, I'm just looking towards the future for Nintendo and by that, I mean the NX, Mario Maker, and Zelda. It does seem like the Wii U is winding down, which is a bit of a shame as I was really hoping for an HD Animal Crossing but we can't always get what we want. Nintendo's probably going to be in a bit of a changing period after Iwata's passing. I guess we should just enjoy the Wii U's (probably) last year while it lasts.
Looks like we're back in Nintendoomed season
While this article does bring up a lot of important points, the reality still hurts and that's the rumour of the NX being released before my Wii U is even 3 years old!
Wii U is my favorite console of all time. I love it. Sure, I'm disappointed with the amount of third party support.... I think a perfect balance between the two is a win-win situation for Nintendo and its fans. Also they NEED to learn how to promote and advertise mature games properly!!
The question we have to ask ourselves is whether Nintendo has actually learned from its mistakes with the Wii U when it comes to launching the NX, what ever that maybe. If they want people to buy the console then they are going to need that third party support.
Whomever takes over the post of Mr Iwata will have a lot to do between the time they become President of Nintendo and the reveal of the NX when ever that takes place.
@FragRed We'll see whether they have when the NX comes out (if it's a home console) and see how they handle it. Hopefully they have learned from their mistakes.
It's disappointing to not have many third parties bringing games to the Wii U, but it's also understandable. Since not enough consoles were sold, the user base just isn't enough for some publishers to spend the time and money to bring a game to the Wii U. Hopefully Nintendo can give the NX an architecture that's easier to bring games to so that it lowers the costs and risk for third parties.
The only Nintendo system third-party retails I care about, honestly, are anything that has Rayman or Lego on the cover. That's it.
While third party support has been rather...crappy, I still enjoy my Wii U. Hopefully things will get better with the next system.
The biggest problem that I have with 3rd-Party companies is that they seem to think a scattershot method works on games.
Let me clarify with example, EA. They have both of the exact issue I detailed and it is the best example I can think of:
''First'', they make a game but make it for as many systems that they can. This causes people to not explore other systems. If they can get the game they want already for a system they own, the chance of that fan getting another system lowers. And the options available with the systems does not get explored. So things like the GamePad still look stupid to the PS4/XboxOne fans because they havent experienced the Pad or its Off-TV Play and other capabilities.
''Second", is the quick reload that they have on games. Why should I as a casual (or not even that) sports gamer care for the newest Basketball or Football (or Futbol ) game when it costs $60 and the same game that was released 9~15 months ago is now already bargain bin for $20 or less... 6 months after it was released? The constant "basic" upgrade and then spamming Christmas for new releases hurts a lot more than you think.
Super Mario Galaxy has only had one sequel (two games total). I am certain that if/when it has a third game, there will be much demand, but that is also because of much more quality and improvements. Much more than is capable with a yearly Port-to-everything game.
If you want further proof of how this damages the systems overall, just look at Ubisoft. System EXCLUSIVE Rayman was reduced to a YEAR wait past the system's release. And it wasnt even Exclusive any more. In fact, the ONLY system that didnt get it was a Nintendo one. The 3DS. (YES, it was on the PSVita too.) That just encouraged PS and Xbox gamers to ignore Nintendo (and save their $ from buying what they believe to be a garbage system), and praise Ubisoft for giving them the game too. At the same time, people who supported Nintendo and Ubisoft in order to get the Rayman EXCLUSIVE were left sour and holding a bag of rotten apples. Game was LATE, Not Exclusive as promised, and Nintendo lost out. But Ubisoft got $ from the PS and Xbox gamers, right? Good Job Ubisoft! /sarcasm
I too love my Wii U and ask the games released for it. My plan was to buy third party games for the Wii U where it made sense... As it turns out, it never did for the reasons stated in the article. Though I thoroughly enjoyed the the likes of Deus Ex, Need for speed and both Arkham games (which outside of the the canned DLC, wasn't Origins the definitive one because it had less performance problems that the other 2?)
it's too bad EA and 2K were too timid to even support the consoles worth more than one half-hearted attempt, as the Gamepad features alone makes sports games appealing on the Wii U.
But whatever, what's done is done. All you can do is enjoy what you have and what's coming and hope next time things will work out for the better!
Of the current gen consoles my Wii U library is the biggest and has the most exclusives. Even without much 3rd party it's easily the system with the best games.
It isn't anybody but Nintendo's burden to offer a compelling business case for their platform. They couldn't, so the invevitable happened. Who can blame them. They're not charities.
Wrong, Third party tried and Nintendo fans don't care about anything other then Nintendo games. Plus Nintendo treats third party games with no respect, and they're very strict, it's been like that since they're ridiculous demands they made on third party back in the NES days. Nintendo dug they're own hole with third party relations,so don't blame them. I wouldn't exactly support a company with high demands like Nintendo, will basically not give your game any support in advertisement, system that is obviously last gen in tech, and on a system that is selling as horrible as the Wii U
It pains me to agree with this editorial but I'm beginning to change my attitude towards the Wii U. Truth be told, I wanted a PS4 in Nov 2013 but couldn't get one so an EB Games employee talked me into the Wii U. I spent the first year frustrated that I couldn't play anything outside of Nintendo's scope of influence. I enjoyed the games but I felt incomplete. Once I bought a PS4, I actually began to appreciate my Wii U more. Not everything on the PS4 is great and many games are just "meh" to me. I own about 10 Wii U games and all of them are an '8' or higher to me but I can't say the same about all of my PS4 games. I really love my Wii U and I'm looking forward to the final 18 months of its life. In the end, I will own 20 excellent games that I will keep for a long time. Just wait, the Wii U will be highly collectable and people will speak highly of the games. With all of that being said, Nintendo will always be my second console from now on. The big N does not treat third parties with respect, they are too secretive with their tech and they are hard to work with. I can't survive on feel good games for my gaming fix. Play Station has won out for me and I will always have that as my main system. I may buy the NX after a year and once it has a good backlog of games for me to play.
@icedude545 Well, the 3DS doesn't have Minecraft either, and we all know that played out.
I would appreciate Minecraft on Nintendo systems, though.
at least activision, sega and lego company release game for wii u, still gutted about other third parties not releasing new game on wii u: i meant who wouldn't want a new fifa or a new call of duty
Cause you guys never cared for them when they were there. And look what happened they left the first year,can't blame them tho. It's like they knew the Wiiu was going to be a failure before even Nintendo and it's fans ever knew.
@hYdeks to be fair, Nintendo didn't even support their own system with advertisements and really that's the job of the publisher, not the OEM. Nintendo's biggest fault is not communicating what the Wii U is. I brought mine over to my girlfriend's house the other day, she's not much of a gamer granted, but she thought the Wii U was just a controller attachment, so yep, that stigma is still lingering, even almost three years later.
Though I do agree with you in that the way they treated 3rd parties in the past is sort of coming back to bite them, but at the same time, third parties cannot be completely absolved from blame. Furthermore, there are a few Nintendo fans, even in this thread that has bought third party games (with the admission we may be in the minority), so way to use blanket statement blaming all Nintendo fans😊 Even then, we can only take so many gimped and late ports with missing content before we've had enough.
I'm trying to remember if there's someone who often comments about 3rd party game sales. Something about fans not buying 3rd party. Or buying the wrong type of 3rd party. Or something. Can't quite remember who it is...
I have a theory that Wii U owners come from a long line of Nintendo owning gamers brought up on Japanese games from Konami, Capcom, Namco, Sega, and Square. We like weird, colourful and (dirty phrase) 'kid friendly' games, because that's what we know. American titles aren't so much keyed into our tastes.
In my opinion, Nintendo needs to keep it's Japanese partners happy- Platinum, Sega, Namco, Capcom- and aim to get them to bring games like Tekken, Street Fighter, Dark Souls, and Resident Evil to the NX. I get the feeling Wii U gamers also want Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and Castlevania- all Japanese properties.
Ubisoft, EA, and Activision and Warner are welcome to support the system, but I don't think that's the real developers for Nintendo systems.
Wii U doesn't even come close to the GCN and Wii for me, it's like a sick joke. It doesn't even quite reach Dreamcast levels... (Dreamcast has STILL sold more than Wii U, figure that one out...) Wii U is not a total failure, but it's easily the worst overall effort since the botched and rushed Virtual Boy. The gargantuan downgrade in Virtual Console support compared to Wii, in particular, is one of the most flabbergastingly terrible errors on Nintendo's part.
That said, Rayman Legends is my favorite game on Wii U, and it exemplifies how to do great games that could only work well on Wii U the right way. (Games like Xenoblade are great, but they could be done just as well elsewhere...) Too bad almost no one followed their example, combined with UbiSoft's blundering...
My Wii U is just waiting to become a modded machine at this point. I'm eager to see the secrets Nintendo left out, as they did with Wii...
To be honest I think there was 3 things that derailed that first year in terms of third party. THQ collapsing (Metro would of helped with the "mature games"), Ubisoft repeatedly delaying rayman then going multiformat (leaving an killer app hole in the year) and EA's lack of follow up to their games (No Mass Effect Trilogy, no Fifa 14).
@YoshiTails YES. I just dug out my 64 and played some Shadows of the Empire and Beetle Racing. The biggest omission on Wii U games IMO is Star Wars games.
Well....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKYOtZaWIAAiqu4.jpg:large
I think I fully agree with this article. (yes, this is my personal Wii U games collection)
@PlywoodStick to be fair the Wii U has more competing against it than the Dreamcast did (two systems vs two systems, Mobile and tablets, cheaper and easier PC gaming). there's also the fact during the Dreamcast's time Japan hadn't all but abandoned home console gaming as it has now and things like the economic downturn made everyone spend less.
@abe_hikura The incompetence of Sega of America in the mid to late 90s was a greater obstacle at the time than the obstacles, represented many competitors in a large market, which exist today. The market was much smaller, and an incompetent first party was an assured death knell at the time. Nintendo was incompetent with Wii U, but a number of factors prevent that from being a major hindrance to Nintendo's future as a first party.
It's amazing how much support the Dreamcast got, all things considered. The Wii U didn't have that kind of crippling disadvantage holding it back, yet it still was screwed up big time. In that sense, even factoring in today's greater competition in a bigger market versus yesterday's more concise competition in a much smaller market, the Dreamcast was a greater effort than Wii U.
I don't buy the so-called economic downturn affecting Wii U that much. Less fortunate people are spending less, but wealthy people and upper middle class people have been spending more, if anything. Most big corporations have been reporting record high profits or gaining unconscionably massive corporate welfare bailouts all the while. The "economic downturn" was only so for public institutions, those less fortunate, and those who got screwed over by the failure of public institutions to safeguard the public. So yeah, not much effect on those who have enough disposable money to buy a Wii U anyways.
Japan's home console market has severely contracted, but they're still snapping up PS4's. Wii U just didn't manage to bridge the gap between home and portable. I suspect NX will be the second attempt to do so.
"A few years from now the Wii U will have surely become 'last gen',"
Surely you mean the day the Wii U was released was when it became and remained 'last gen'. It barely runs a slight amount ahead of the PS3 and XBox360 as it is. Current gen systems like the PS4 and Xbox 1 are the up to par technology systems. Odds are that the NX will hardly even stand beside those when it releases and Nintendo is going to be in the same spot it was with the Wii U.
I find it funny how people always say Nintendo fans hate anything third party but this article brought several of the issues I have been trying to point out for the longest time
Dues EX, NFS, ME3 and Batman Arkham City were good ports but they were late, overpriced or in some cases missing DLC. If NFS were 30 dollars more people would have been inclined to bite. Also keep in mind at that time EA had already burned the Nintendo fans badly
Project Cars is another example of why Nintendo fans likely don't trust most third party devs. When you promise a Wii U version of a game then you end up feeding the fans a constant string of lies and half truths before saying its cancelled yeah you can expect a lot of people to be pretty pissed off. Its crap like this that destroys the trust and respect of the userbase
Thats another thing. The key to success on any console is not simply releasing good games but building a relationship of trust and respect with the systems user base. With Nintendo third parties have done none of that. Rather they have done nothing but destroy it. The biggest rule of any console is don't burn bridges with your systems user base.
Here's a list of "holes" Nintendo has left unfilled thus far for the Wii U:
There are more holes they can fill if they actually gave a damn.
It's possible to make these sorts of games with small teams (see Shin'en and Fast Racing Neo)
LONGER GAMEPAD BATTERY LIFE! That is one of the keys keeping my teen/preteen kids playing on the WiiU. I plunked down $35 and installed the "extended life" battery in January and use of the WiiU skyrocketed. Recently it means hours of uninterrupted Splatoon gameplay shared between them. They also now play more of MarioKart, SmashBros and Nindie games.
My biggest disappointment is the loss of KEY sports franchises. Madden and FIFA look and play great in their only WiiU releases and it saddens me the studios stopped publishing for WiiU. I'm guessing the loss of these two third party games in particular have a big part in low sales for USA and Europe.
@Genesaur @Tsurii
Genesaur that is completely inaccurate. Nintendo owns 96% of Monolith Soft, where the other 4% is, I have no idea. That makes them a first party studio. A couple years have Nintendo snatch them up, Nintendo opened up a second Monolith Soft studio in Kyoto (the other is in Tokyo).
As Tsurii said, they are part of Nintendo just like Retro Studios and Intelligent Systems.
I think a lot of the problems stem from a lack of both Marketing and Focus, mainly on Nintendo's part.Nintendo themselves had an limited launch line up, barely any of the concepts from the WiiU showcase of Nintendoland were adopted and actually made into full games. Instead 3rd parties tried to use existing game assets, get them to 'just' run on Wii U, have something handy on the Gamepad screen an pretty much leave it at that.
Mass effect is a prime example, instead of ME3, they could have made a game like Metroid Blast set in the Mass effect universe, your ground team gets air support in fights against the reapers etc. Then once ME is established to the user base, worry about porting ME trilogy to Wii U with the Gamepad bonus inputs. The developers went in blind, with no real plans to make anything unique.
The hardware is unique, an still there are few examples of any developer, Nintendo included utilising the Gamepad 'well', Both Deus ex and ME3 have good 'intergration' of the gamepad in existing games, which is fine for ports, but we see very few games like Zombi U that actually make the gamepad 'add' a new layer. Ubisoft then failed to follow up, postponed Rayman an concerntrated on Ports rather than unique games for Wii U.
I'd have taken a more polished, online Zombi 2 than Ass 3, Ass 4 and even Splintercell (which I love) combined. They could have used a HD release of a reworked Red Steel 1 an 2 (fix 1 so it played with 2's precision) to raise a bit of money for the Wii U pot, while they built the sequel Zombi U deserved.
Sega should have released a football manager game instead of spam Sonic (suits the gamepad massively) which would have secured a lot of U.K support, and a separate Aliens game more like Isolation should have been made in a similar way as Zombi U.
Nintendo's federation force ironically would work on Wii U as a local co op game that builds again on Metroid blast.
Ninja Gaiden and Tecmos Warriors games could have utilised elements of TLoZ adventure from Nintendoland too.
Sega could have made Sega land, applying their beloved IP.E.G Streets of rage could have been 3 players on the ground beating people up, and a 4th in the car laying down support fire in the City Streets. HotD could have been leveraged again, using standard wiimotes as light guns and the Gamepad as an extra view or, covering the rear. This would also work with Ghost Squad as they use cover formations anyway as they move around environments.
Anyway, Third Parties Failed with the Wii U because Ultimately, Nintendo themselves have failed to show them how it should be done. Wasted potential.
A good console launch is a prerequisite to 3rd Party support. Nobody should blame Nintendo fans! I bought my Wii U this past January along with NSMBU, MK8, Smash Wii, Ninja Gaiden 3 and Deus Ex.
The responsibility of the Wii Us current circumstances rests solely on Nintys shoulders not the people who took a risk and supported them! I sold my PS4 and games to buy Wii U and i'm totally happy with my decision!!
@Captain_Gonru because indies are small-fry, apparently, and no one cares about them if they're not exclusive to the console. That's what I get from the NLife community anyway.
I'll stand up for the system! Got my Wii U the day Super Mario 3D World was released, along with NSMBU & NSLU. Along the way I've picked up DKC:TF, MK8, Rayman Legends, ZombiU, Pikmin3, Super Smash Bros. Wii U, Yoshi's Woolly World, & I ordered Splatoon last night. Every single one of those games is top, top quality, in my personal opinion. Some of the best I've ever played, & I've been gaming since the C64. From the Virtual Console I've got Super Mario World, SMB3, SM64, Balloon Fight, (for you Iwata-San). Color Zen Kids, SteamWorld Dig, Spin The Bottle, Mighty Switch Force HD, Armillo, RUSH, Toki Tori, Runner2: Future Legend Of Rhythm Alien & Thomas Was Alone have all been quality buys from the eShop. My son is 4, my daughter is almost 7, we all have our own NNID, all use the Wii U, playing together or alone. We love it in my house, I work full-time and my gaming time is limited but we have had many, many happy hours with Wii U & we'll have many more. There are games I'm looking forward to still to come and many I've missed that will get picked up in time. There you go @ThomasBW84, I'm a fan!
@PlywoodStick I agree Sega supported the hell out of the dreamcast, securing huge exclusives and delivering brilliant first party games.
But I dont buy that sega's behind the scenes failings was worse for the system than the wii u's external issues, hell the economic crash alone changes the scope dramatically, Almost every Dreamcast owner I know had it along side another system (usually the ps2) or two and played it for it's exclusives (which it had plenty) but now people are saying the comparative low price of the Wii U is too much for "just the exclusives".
Not to say Nintendo didn't miss handle the Wii U because they did, the name and the poor advertising (both in quantity and quality) really kicked the Wii U in the knees and IMHO they should of got aggressive with third parties as soon as Rayman slipped the second time and price drop was needed that first X1/PS4 christmas
It sure is unfortunate that things happened tne way they did but this was inevitable considering the poor sales of third party games on consoles with a huge install base like the Wii. I am pretty much positive that the NX will be in the same exact position unless things change dramatically. I do have to wonder why EA even bothered to release Mass Effect 3 on Wii U at the same time as the trilogy was released for the other consoles. What they heck were they thinking!?
@Captain_Gonru They're big and little third parties, but they operate very differently. The difference is enough to separate them, even though they're all generally third parties. Also, some independents self-publish, others don't, so that's another distinction for them.
@Zach777 Last/current/next gen has nothing to do with power, its literally a linear progression Wii/ps3/360 are all last gen as they was all replaced by (now) current gen systems Wii U/PS4/X1 and now we're on the edge of the next gen with the NX replacing the Wii U, unless its actually an handheld or some other type of device.
I have to ask
Have they treat poorly WiiU owners or have WiiU owners treat poorly third party developers ? Wii had some great third party sales, even some companies "adapted" their games to the Wii hardware (Call of Duty) mostly because (and to shut down those damn awful rumours) 3rd party sold WELL on the Wii.
But not on the WiiU,one could argue that was what brought wasnt enough but still... i dont think Third parties are the only ones to blame.
@Dpishere it was crazy, then they sat there and said "if you want trillogy then please by Mass effect 3"
"Still brings joy"
This is obviously a 2014 statement.
@Faruko the first year was on the third parties, the second year was on the fans*. everything since is on Nintendo's dealings
*The broad calls to boycott third part games that didn't launch at the same time or have the same features backfired. the idea was companies would know Nintendo fans would support non gimped/late games but all the publishers saw was their games not selling on Wii U
i have been treated so poorly!!!
@Dpishere I'm thinking the whole Mass Effect situation is probably "Wii U is too weak" in terms of power in addition to very little memory space. Mass Effect Trilogy was released on 5 discs (1 for ME1 as well as 2 each for ME2 and ME3), whereas every Wii U game has been 1 disc hence why disc versions of games such as Splinter Cell Blacklist suffered (eshop download version is perfectly fine). It's only been very recently that Nintendo decided that making users download something to make the game run better rather than decreasing the quality for everyone is a good thing (Xenoblade X). Why do you think Black Ops 2 and Ghosts didn't get an eshop release? Chances are because you wouldn't be able to buy it unless you owned an external hard drive.
Some people here seems to think that Third parties need Nintendo, thatthey need to develop relationships with the fan base, to treat nintendo fans fairly etc etc. but the question is do they really have to do that? I posit that Third partiesdon't really need Nintendo. Earnings of third party developers comes from Sony ad Microsoft, they already have a proven market. They only see nintendo as an afterthought. Therefore they really dont need to give any effort. If their initial experiments fail they will just shrug and move on, if it succeeds thenits just a bonus.
@rushiosan ? Do you decide when/how people other than yourself find enjoyment? The Wii U's best game (IMO) released only a couple of months ago, and there are still at least another half-a-dozen great games on the way, don't know where your statement came from at all.
Ugh. It's not the responsibility of third parties, or retailers to keep Wii U fans happy. Those are all businesses who exist to make money. Nintendo are also a business that exist to make money.
This can mostly be pinned on Nintendo needlessly making the console tough to port to. What advantage did that bring them exactly? It's a throw back to Yamauchi making the N64 hard to port to, thinking everyone would want to make games for it, and thus make porting the games to the Playstation impossible.
If third party games had sold well enough at the start to make money, third parties would have gone through the extra difficulty to keep the ports coming. That's their motivation after all. If there's money in a project, they'll do it. However, they sold very badly indeed. People will say all we got is ports, but we got at least one 3rd party exclusive in Zombi U and that sold poorly too. The PS4 just got the same multi platform ports, but the difference is they sold well, so the third parties added more and more support for that machine.
I am actually interested in some of EA's games, but since it's been awhile I would rather get them cheaper. You could probably get them cheaper for other consoles, but it seems that EA is completely ignoring the Wii U. I can't remember there ever being any price cuts not sales on their games yet Ubisoft has them fairly often. I've bought quite a few Ubisoft games because they were on sale.
@TheLastLugia I don't see many reasons to cheer up with 2015 Lineup. Splatoon is the best title so far, but still not aimed for everyone. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would because a huge part of it is focused on multiplayer. Ending 2015 with only one relevant big release, which is about playing online, isn't good for most owners.
And no, Mario Maker isn't really attractive besides all the hype the media is trying to simulate. It's not a full Mario adventure, it's just a sandbox about creating levels to share online. It could perfectly be a cheap title for digital-only purchase.
I would say Nintendo makes their hardware for themself, and anyone else making games for it is a plus. This time, they had to mostly go it alone, with smaller devs backing them up. I bet Nintendo will definitely have smaller and more realistic outlook for the NX, no matter what it will be.
Is it just me or do all of these "Talking Point" featues just reiterate a lot of obvious, common knowledge without actually saying anything?
WiiU has been a bittersweet experience for me. It started as my only console and end up a secondary (very secondary) console in the last year. It is a platforming fest but lacks almost everything else, despite few gems (bayonetta and w101). Still, I believe third parties are the less to blame, since they supported the console a lot at launch. NINTENDO has to be blamed the most, for poor marketing choices and a weak launch line up (an uninspiring 2d mario and Nintendolife). Second to that, a large part of Nintendo fanbase has grown with poor interest in non nintendo games, which is a pity, since there are tons of amazing non nintendo games to be played...
I've always been a two console person just for this very reason. It's a shame the third party games on Wii U have generally been inferior versions and/or released late without DLC support. I like my Wii U but it doesn't get used as much as the PS3.
Nintendo was betrayed by the third parties. When you are doing well, everyone wants to join your party. When you are down, people ran away.
I say, Nintendo should make a super duper console like no one has ever seen. Then refuse any third party to make games for it. Invest and expand the development teams so they can release at least 2 games per month all by themselves. The third parties will come begging to make games for it.
@TwilightAngel #31 I agree completely with you
The lack of 3rd party support is a huge problem, for sure. But it would be disastrous for nintendo if they also made bad 1st party titles...which luckely there are only a few.
@Nintendian #75 I don t think so. 3rd parties do not need Nintendo at all, since they sell great on ps4 and xbox.
@errantrazor Well isn't the point of a talking point intended to get people talking? A food for thought, so to speak?
I have bought well over 20 retail games for the Wii U, and consider it a great console, but I really wish there was more third party support. I have to agree with @Peach64 if the console was easier to port to, we might have been seeing some more support today.
In all honesty, for us, users, it would be just great if nintendo became "just" a software powerhouse, releasing games for other platforms. Why I should buy a ps4 AND a wiiu to play 5 Nintendo exclusives a year and nothing else on a weaker platform? I could easily save 300 bucks from buying a WiiU, and reinvest them on Nintendo games for my ps4.....
@arnoldlayne83 They were supporting Wii because it was doing well. Not Wii U because it wasn't doing well. If Wii U was doing well, the third parties will make an effort to make their games work with the tablet controller just like they optimized their games for the Wii mote last gen. Only when Nintendo is doing well then they need them, now that Nintendo is defeated, no one wants to be part of the losing team.
@Nintendian That's business. You always want to be on the winning side.
The third-party developers aren't to blame. It's no one's fault but Nintendo's. Their hardware's outdated specs is a laughingstock in the gaming community, therefore no one wants to waste money on it. The Wii U should have been a side project, just an updated rendition of the Wii. They should have focused on making a platform that surpasses the Xbox One and PS4 in specs. They aren't even doing that now with the NX. The NX will be a second Wii U; nothing will change. After this generation, I'm switching over to the PlayStation. Nintendo is not qualified to be making consoles anymore. They should just be a third-party developer if they're the only ones sustaining their console.
@Peach64 Actually I believe the Wii U was designed so that porting 360 games was relatively easy. That still wasn't utilized much, anyway though
IMO, there is an element of Chicken & Egg here. If games are good, People will buy them.
I currently have 15 full price 3rd Party games, the same amount as 1st Party.
But I can see why people would not buy some 3rd Party games, a few examples below
FIFA 13. Basically FIFA 11 released at full price, while over systems get a new Game. It does take a lot to figure out why it sold crap.
Mass Effect 3, sold at £59.99 whilst other systems get the entire trilogy a tenner cheaper.
Zombi U, a good exclusive (I got at Launch). This was given a lot of unfair p#ss poor reviews. A lot of western review sites were expecting COD with Zombies, and slated it.
Rayman Legends. A good game, but p#ssed off the fan base by delaying release, probably a bung from MS
AC games are buggy ports.
A few examples of 3rd Party games done right:
Need for Speed Most Wanted (although price was high), Lego City Undercover, Bayonetta.
I think the Wii U is fantastic gaming hub. I have (mostly all digital) over 240 games (inc eShop and Wii/Wii U VC), most accessible from my Game Pad in most rooms of the house.
@arnoldlayne83 "in all honesty for us users it would be great if Nintendo became 'just' a software powerhouse" speak for yourself bud, a large majority of people would recognise that that would be a very bad thing for the Nintendo brand, despite how oh-so-convinient it would be for you. Zelda and Donkey Kong on PS4? Mario, Kirby, Samus on Xbox? Yuck, someone give me a bucket.
@Fazzie_Bear What are you talking about? How do you know what the NX is?
@Aromaiden That's right. The third parties allied to Nintendo are Tecmo, Capcom, Namco, etc They are all Japanese game companies. Maybe it's a national unity thing, that's why they were supporting a dying console. All major Western games companies had left Nintendo for good.
@Aromaiden Nintendo isn't focusing on specs with the NX. They're even resisting VR hardware just as they did the mobile market years back. They're making the same mistakes and they're just as arrogant as they were before the Wii U. If Nintendo proves me wrong next generation, I'll pick up an NX. Otherwise, I'm becoming a PlayStation gamer.
@TheLastLugia Well then, I guess let's continue to watch them make failing consoles. What Nintendo needs to do is identify Sony and Microsoft's business tactics and apply those to their business. They need to jump on bandwagons, like VR hardware, not resist it. Nintendo needs to get in the times and stop being so arrogant, because from what I'm hearing, the NX will just be a second Wii U.
@arnoldlayne83 Okay...rather than get into an argument with you, I have this question: What benefit would Nintendo have for going third party?
@Fazzie_Bear You don't know that. The rumors that the NX won't be powerful are just that: rumors.
@NintendoFan64 Why bother discussing it honestly, I doubt anything productive will happen? It's usually the same thing on each one of these articles, and nothing changes. It's best to just sit back and watch things unfold at this point.
@Aromaiden Good point. It's just going to go nowhere, and I can already tell what his rebuttal will be: "The Wii U is terrible, and it's falling behind, and Nintendo is in last!", while completely ignoring that it's actually making a profit, and not even bringing up the 3DS, ignoring that Nintendo really has no reason to go third-party.
Edit: And then, once I point out those issues with his statement, he'll then start ranting about how I'm apparently wrong, and that he's right, and that Nintendo should just die, and that anyone who defends them is an idiot.
Seems like a good time to ask: How're the Batman games? Never got around to them, but they look like fun.
The late Iwata-san's vision for Wii U before launch:
"Whether asymmetric gameplay will lead to a similar boom as we had for Wii is something we cannot tell at this point, we will have to release it and see how it goes. But if we look at videogame history there have been plenty of games where multiple people play together, but I think in almost all of them each player would be performing the same role.
Asymmetric gameplay is really about ‘what if one person gets a special controller and gets a different role than everyone else?’ You could see some examples in the game modes that we presented in Nintendo Land but I think there are many more possibilities. Our development teams have plenty of ideas for asymmetric gameplay and are proposing a lot of ideas and I think that's a good sign."
And where Nintendo differed with the vision of third parties:
"The architecture is obviously different than other consoles so there is a need to do some tuning if you really want to max out the performance.


We’re not going to deliver a system that has so much horsepower that no matter what you put on there it will run beautifully, and also, because we’re selling the system with the GamePad – which adds extra cost to the package – we don’t want to inflate the cost of each unit by putting in excessive CPU power."
With this we see Nintendo took the gamble once again with it's innovation which meant that there was little accommodation for broader industry and third party trends and direction. This was the philosophy of dear Iwata to keep Nintendo in the eye of the public in a sea of competing new tech. The Wii U was not a success, but I still believe this philosophy for Nintendo is quite sound due to the proven success of Wii, DS and to certain but absolute extent, 3DS. In the Wii/DS brand era, that's 3 for 4. Iwata took risks and he knew the payoff or the payout for taking those risks. In the end I believe Nintendo is a company with a future even after a failure because they are a different kind of company than the competition and they know that risk is necessary to survive the transient, ticklish trends of the tech and entertainment business.
@Fazzie_Bear They were on the VR bandwagon about 20 years ago, the result was their worst console ever. And for all we know, VR is gong to be something that will completely flop and just be a expensive gimmick. Not sure about you but I don't know anyone irl with a pc good enough to run the OR.
@BLPs - I just noticed a trend, all the articles which I'm planning on skipping b/c they are needlessly negative, you always call me into.
I didn't like the addition of the word "Retail' in the tile along w/ 3rd parties. I have some idea what he's probably getting at, but it seemed unnecessary. Maybe I'll read it later and get back to you.
@NintendoFan64 that maybe more prople will buy their games since they can play them on their favourite console.at the moment, by looking at numbers, there are not enoughpeople interested in buying nintendo home consoles for their exclusives. Plus, i care for my money more than nintendo one. I would save a lot if I could play Zelda on ps4, instead of spending extra money for a low spec, gimmicky 2nd console
@Monado_III Agreed. Anyone that thinks that VR is the future of gaming has not been paying attention. It was supposed to be the future of gaming in the 90s as well. Sega was working on a VR headset that was never released along with other companies. The problem with VR is the disorientation and Motion Sickness it causes for many. Not to mention mainstream gamers, which is most of the people that own a video game console, are not going to want to put some big goofy headset on to play games. While VR is a neat technology that could have some great uses out of gaming, it will be similar to 3D TV technology. It will have a very niche following but will never garner the mass market appeal because of it's shortcomings. Now if they figure out a way to do a holodeck type VR with no headset required and no side effects, that may just work.
Never understood the logic that if Nintendo puts out a console that's powerful (relatively speaking) and easy to develop for, they'll get all the 3rd party support.
Here's the thing, that only ATTRACTS 3rd parties. Wanna know how that goes down? I'll tell you:
When Nintendo puts out said system, the 3rd parties are attracted to the system and put out games for it. Then reality hits when those games don't sell because there's no audience for those games on Nintendo's home consoles as Nintendo fans have a well documented history of ignoring 3rd party games while everyone else prefers them on the other platforms, resulting in the 3rd parties dropping the system faster than rabbits can breed.
@NintendoFan64 While it is true that the NX being underpowered is a rumor, taking into account Nintendo philosophy in regards with hardware and their stubborness since the Wii that lightning can strike twice with that strategy, I don't doubt for a bit that the NX will be a failure because it will not meet the specs that are pretty much considered standard these days thus missing out again on third parties.
The only way the NX can be successful is either being at least as powerful as the PS4 or the One or have an unbelievable gimmick that catches on.
@NintendoFan64 #93 No you would still have to deal with it. Go to any other site with Xbox and PS fans and its an all out Weenie measuring contest. XD
Ok why nintendo gets flak for this I don't know. Third party support was half assed by third parties while nintendo customers are used to the pinnacle of quality. Then the stuff didn't sell, they whined about market dynamics and here we are.
I buy great games. Third party support market dynamics are none of my concern. Whiny biny lack of spiny. Make the best of games and watch me buy them. If you can't top nintendo then improve.
When it comes to 3rd parties, the lack of them on the Wii U doesn't have all too great of an effect on me, though it still marks a bit of a disappointment for me. There are not many 3rd party series that continue to capture my interest (Dead or Alive, Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm, and BlazBlue are the only series that come to mind), but the now previous generation did offer up some 3rd party games that I did enjoy greatly on my Wii, such as Muramasa: The Demon Blade and Red Steel. In thinking of the future of the Wii U, I was hoping to see more of these great 3rd party exclusives pop up on Wii U, though this sadly did not come to be.
It's a shame, but one I can get over, and the 3rd party games I have played on Wii U such as Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed and Child of Light have been an absolute blast. There are in fact some 3rd party Wii U games that I missed at the time of their launch, and so are backtracking to obtain them, such as One Piece: Unlimited World RED.
So whilst I've managed to have a great time with the Wii U, I can see where others might be disappointed, and certainly increased 3rd party support would be a wonderful thing to have.
Nintendo hasn't been too kind to the Wii U either, there's been several IPs that have either skipped the Wii U or got spinoffs no one wanted. Ultimately it seems Nintendo doesn't think much of home consoles anymore.
@IceClimbers I think the case is that there's two console makers who kowtow and do anything to please to third parties. Sony and MS basically dropped back the prominence of their 1st party titles outside of Naughty Dog games and Halo and instead put their advertising budgets into third party ad campaigns and exclusive content Sony/MS don't even attempt to have their 1st party software be the top selling game on their hardware since the last gen. The top four selling Xbox1 games are also on PS4, the top five selling PS4 game are also on Xbox1.
For Nintendo to get the third parties the way PS4 and X1 could they'd have to drop their 1st party approach for any game except Mario Kart(and even then that would have to have less put into advertising it than advertising a big third party game PS and Xbox are also getting). Third parties don't like competing with Nintendo's software and there's no incentive to be 2nd bannana on Nintendo's machine when they can be top dog on PS4 and X1.
A Nintendo console third party as strong as Sony/MS it would mean instead of advertising(or even developing) games like Splatoon Nintendo would instead be spending all that money on advertising Batman Arkahm Knight as best on Nintendo and maybe some time exclusive DLC.
I'm a huge Nintendo fan but lets all be honest with ourselves. 3rd parties have avoided Nintendo because Nintendo makes it hard for 3rd parties. One thing I've hated about the Wii and Wii U are the silly gimmicks! Having them as an option is fine but Nintendo's gimmicks are always forced which is why I quickly grew tired of my Wii, the funny thing is that Nintendo still hasn't figured out how to properly use the Wii U's gimmick of the gamepad. Seriously, I've never seen a device that could do so much but does so little.
Let's not forget that Nintendo has been using dated hardware the the past 2 console generations. Wii was a Gamecube with motion control and the Wii U was a Wii with hd graphics. We still get systems that only have 8gbs or 32gbs which is ridiculous for this generation. They need to keep up with the times!
Also...let's not forget that for some odd reason Nintendo fans don't buy 3rd party games. Look at Bayonetta 2. One of the best games on the Wii U and it isn't even at 1 million sells yet people still cry when no 3rd parties come to Nintendo. Why would they come to Nintendo when they have to do extra work to accommodate Nintendo's weaker hardware and gimmick as well as the fact that the Nintendo crowd will most likely not buy it???
@Bolt_Strike Aside from the fact that part of this is down to their lack of preparation for HD development, I don't fault Nintendo too much on this matter. Given how many IPs Nintendo have, it's only natural that many of their IPs would end up skipping a system every now and again, particularly when considering the case of the Wii U wherein they were unprepared for the additional time a HD game would take to develop.
@jd7904 Why the Hell can't we all just get along?
@arnoldlayne83 That doesn't mean anything. Nintendo and Microsoft/Sony don't share the same type of audience. For all we know, they could sell horribly there.
@FargusPelagius : Those are some great ideas. If Nintendo implemented half of what you said, the Wii U would be thriving.
Poor article pandering to the zealot mentality. In reality the blame for the consistent lack of third-party software on Nintendo can be shared around:-
The Software Co's themselves. Particularly EA (though FIFA did at least use the Gamepad well) stuffed the launch line up with lazy ports. The PS4 and XB1 launches didn't look much different either. Of course it's a big ask these days to fund exclusive software for a machine with no guarantee of success but the.likes of ME3 were shoddy.
Nintendo. They may not be outright hostile to third-party pubs like they were in the Yamauchi era (see the antitrust cases and the 'Dream Team' farce) but indifference isn't great progress. They talked the talk about support for Wii U then launched an under-powered machine with different architecture and a quirky controller that for all it does have, missed things like analogue triggers. Also, while third parties were knocking out ports for Wii U's launch Nintendo weren't exactly selling the machine, launching with a minigame collection that utterly missed any Wii Sports system-selling quality and a cookie cutter Mario platformer 3 months after the last one.
Nintendo fans. They've constantly ignored third party games. Not just the ports on Wii U that got left on the shelf because of missing DLC (even though buying those games on Nintendo platforms would have supported the company they proclaim to love) but plenty of original, exclusive, well targeted third-party games have fallen by the wayside. From Zack and Wiki to Spacestation Silicon Valley, Rocket to Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher to A Boy and His Blob to Muramasa to Red Steel 2 to Little Kings Story to Glover to Sega Soccer Slam its happened time and again.
I suppose I'd best include Sony and Microsoft in that for having the temerity to produce popular machines that are fairly developer-friendly and having fanbases that buy more software than just that produced by the platform holder.
@NintendoFan64
"I wish I was PS4 or Xbone fan, because they at least don't have to deal with this..."
Hahahaha what? I assume that's a joke but I don't get it
@BLPs
Get up any day of the week, decide that day to support either MS, Sony or Nintendo and go round a few games sites on the internet. You'll be having your stomach pumped by midday.
@electrolite77 I think it's kind of unfair to put it that way, third party software does sell on PS and Xbox but only the massively advertised stuff. Viewtiful Joe sold even worse on PS2 than it did on GC, Fuse an FPS by Insomniac(a well renowned developer) sold less on PS3 and 360 combined than the full price port of Mass Effect III sold on WiiU when Trilogy exists.
I recall the dev of Little King Story attacked the lack of sales on the Wii and then went to release the next game on PSVITA where they sold a small fraction of what they did on Wii. The PS/Xbox aren't more receptive to third party games, they're receptive to titles that get more advertising push from Sony/MS than the 1st party titles on the system do.
Just as many obscure titles fall to the wayside on Playstation and Xbox it's just that nobody bothers to notice it and just points at huge companies like EA being a success as proof that third parties thrive on PS or Xbox and pretends that success extends to the multitude of developers/publishers despite the fact 7th gen was grave site for several companies specifically due to HD development(e.g. Hudson).
@Souldin Lack of preparation for HD development is something to fault them for, because everyone else had the same problem in 2007. They should've known about this ahead of time.
@Bolt_Strike Just to clarify, as looking back on my post I'm worried I didn't phrase it quite right, I'm saying that aside from their lack of preparation for HD development I do not fault them for getting as many of their IPs out there.
As in, I do recognise their failing in being prepared for HD development and rightfully criticise them for not being prepared.
Should I add in an edit to my earlier comment to clarify that this is my viewpoint or do you think it was phrased well enough to make that point clear?
You have to try more seriously for Nintendo console. First party always had success, even now. So stop porting craps and start a Nintendo inspired game, do a quality turn eventually . Stop criticizing gamers, evaluate yourselves. Quality games for a more demanding audience. END OF DISCUSSION....
@Zack777
I'm not sure you're old enough to remember gaming history, so I'll let you in on a little bit of the most important stuff.
2-bit (single plane, no movement, the 'light slider', no gaming applications), 4-bit (dual plane, no perceived depth), 8-bit (dual plane, simulated depth), 16-bit (appropriated depth, larger, more complex pixels), 32-bit (increased polygon usage, greater sense of depth). From 32-bit on, the system has simply further complicated the pixels, expanded resolutions, increased efficacy and expounded computational prowess.
A sample tree could be Pong - NES / Megadrive - SNES / Genesis - PS1 / Saturn - N64 / Jaguar - PS2 / Dreamcast - Xbox / GCN / Wii - PS3 / 360 - Wii U - PS4 / XB1.
The difference between systems is always so much more complicated than it appears on the surface. In example, the Jaguar. A terrible system, no doubt, but not because it was weak. The Dreamcast had comparable architecture to the PS2 (which did not measure to the Xbox the way people remember it matching up) but the PS2 had backwards compatibility, Square Enix's support and a built in DVD player (something that was sensible to do, but only in that exact window).
More than any other system, Sony found the exact mix of technical capability and practical sensibility and it is a milestone console that, in my humble opinion, will never be outsold. The Wii U followed the same exact trend that consoles had followed for 26 years. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512 (the PS3 / 360) and finally, 1024. The Gigabyte console. The next step in the line.
What separates Sony and Microsoft in this junction is they no longer pine for system exclusive games (though their press conferences, ads, marketing trees and promotional deals suggest otherwise). Sony and Microsoft realize Nintendo isn't competition anymore. So the focus shifts to winning the hundred million strong PC gaming army. Fortunately for everyone, this creates a unified front, one that makes it easier than ever to port from PCs and vice versa.
This is the sole reason the Wii U fell following it's release. Like with motion controls, Sony and Microsoft jumped Nintendo's push forward by abdicating the console market entirely. A game that requires a 2 GB patch to prevent it from corrupting your system, at launch, is a degradation of the 'console' market as we know it.
A game that is simply unplayable due to programmers oversights is an area of expertise and great frustration for many a PC gamer, but one somehow foreign to console gamers. Until the PC-fication of home gaming that is.
It is no longer about creating a machine that games and provides entertainment, it is about creating a machine that looks like a PC, acts like a PC and sounds like a PC, without having to deal with the nuances of PC gaming. That nuance is simply flooding new systems and the days of mandatory installs, multi-GB updates, OS reworks and hardware incompatibility is now here to stay.
If what you want from gaming is what the PS4 and XB1 provide, you are simply admitting that you're simply too poor to buy a proper PC gaming rig. But that is what is in the box you're desiring and that is all you will find there. Nintendo spurs the notion that PC gaming is the only 'true way to play'. They push the envelope, and often the system spurs their advances. Because, like you, the people are the industry fed and controlled. No new thing can suffice when the well-trodden path is so much simpler. I blame Nintendo for not being ready to push. Their ideas and devices were incomplete. But I'd rather run the deck of a sinking ship that doesn't believe the earth is flat than stay docked and swab it.
@Genesaur
+1 for Deus Ex. One of my best experiences for wiiu. Must have if you haven't played before.
@electrolite77 ...Okay, yeah. That was actually pretty stupid. I hoenstly don't know what I was thinking when typing that part...
@NintendoFan64 "Edit: And then, once I point out those issues with his statement, he'll then start ranting about how I'm apparently wrong, and that he's right, and that Nintendo should just die, and that anyone who defends them is an idiot."
That's, like, why I never seem to comment on these types of articles. Because apparently I'm a fanboy if I say, "I love the Wii U" when in fact no one here even knows what systems I own. It's pretty ridiculous.
Sometimes I just feel like giving into the temptation and snap, but nah. What will I gain? Long novels on why I'm so wrong and my opinion isn't valid? No thanks. Like @Aromaiden said, just sit back, grab some popcorn, and just let the arguments... er.. blossom. XD
@Souldin Beyond those issues though, they seem to have problems with priorities, and this year especially shows that. They gave spinoffs to several of their IPs on 3DS that no one wanted and many of them missed out on main series entries on Wii U.
@NintendoFan64 false. I am also on ps4 forums. There are plenty of people on the fence about Nintendo games that still think buying a wiiu is too much an economic effort compared with what it has to offer...
The problem was as much the Wii as the Wii U but Nintendo didn't learn any lessons and still went with a console which is essentially years behind the competition. To make matters worse they can't even price it accordingly to generate sales due to the rather unnecessary gamepad. So today if your looking to buy a console it's only slightly cheaper than far superior hardware and by the time you buy all the controllers you need may even cost more.
As many have said Nintendo owners buy very few third party games because many will own another console and will simply buy the better version. Nintendo need to aim to make people buy their console as their primary one and that means comparable hardware so third parties will bring the games to them even if Nintendo don't feel they need it.
@electrolite77 #112 well well said
@stsaerox #120 agree. Deus ex on wiiU was great fun, full of contents, boss fights completely tweaked for a better experience, Iloved it. One of the best game on platform... And still it sold abysimally.
@SahashraLA
...
Brilliant. I think I might shed a tear...
@Dr_Lugae
Well yeah of course the most advertised games are often the biggest sellers. There's no secret there and its also the case on Nintendo platforms. There will always be flops too, I'm not saying every single third party game on PS or XBox is a success. However due in whatever proportion to their hardware, their licensing fees and business proposition, their fanbase or their willingness to advertise third-party games Sony and MS platforms are generally far more receptive. Thats why they get a lot more support whether at retail or the massive indie support for PS4. The numbers don't lie.
@enderboy221
The Batman games are very good. Origins seems to be regarded as inferior but I enjoyed it. They're both available very cheaply these days* so well worth a go
*I'm in the UK, may not be true elsewhere
@SahashraLA
"If what you want from gaming is what the PS4 and XB1 provide, you are simply admitting that you're simply too poor to buy a proper PC gaming rig"
You were going OK until you steered the boat into a big iceberg of 'wrong'
I only had a Wii last gen, but I've needed a PS4 this time aswell as a Wii U. Although I still play the Wii U more.
In my view it hasn't been just Nintendo's or the third party studio's fault that the Wii U doesn't have that many third party games, but also Nintendo fans/Wii U owners like myself ;^^. (I know other people have mentioned similar things before).
While it is not just us Nintendo fans fault that the Wii U doesn't have that many third party games, but I am not the kind of person who buy games like Assassin Creed or Guitar Hero for that matter ;^^.
I am a person who buy Adventure, Puzzle, (Simulation) and (J)RPGs . I would love more games from Square Enix and other (J)RPGs in general ^^. I have no interest in the AAA American third party games, but I prefer games that are usually made in Japan. I do buy a fair amount of indie games so I am not just a Nintendo only person.
As other people have mentioned that the lack of big third party games might also be affected by that in the beginning many third party games wasn't as polished as they should have been and ended up hurting the future third party reputation among Nintendo fans ;^^.
And yes, Nintendo could definitely marketed the Wii U a lot better which is probably the biggest reason why the Wii U never hit the gaming market as much as it could have done. Also the Wii U itself could probably have been better with longer battery life and being able to take the Wii U out of the house in a offline mode where you can have at least one game. Also the Wii U is a bit pricey for to just be a pick up buy many places ;^^.
I actually think EA could port PC Spore over to the Wii U or made a new Spore game on the Wii U if it is made well and could maybe be a little counterpart to No Man's Sky, but at least it could be a interesting concept. As for Ubisoft more games like Child of Light and Valiant Hearts in my view .
In the end I want to say I love my Wii U even if it isn't perfect ^^.
(I know I have mentioned many things other people have said, but I wanted to sum it up in my view).
@Bolt_Strike Hmm, I'm a little undecided on the matter, though I can see where you're coming from on this matter.
For instance, the Gamecube never received a proper Kirby game. It did get Kirby's Air Ride though, which was an absolute ton of fun. It was disappointing to not get a new entry of my favourite series on the consoles, but the spin-off was an absolute ton of fun.
It's funny that prior to the Japan focused Nintendo Direct and E3, there seemed to be quite a few concerned about the lack of 3DS games lined up for the year. I guess a big problem for Nintendo is their divided attention on both 3DS and Wii U, though in regards to two of the 3DS spin-offs shown, both The Legend of Zelda: Triforce Heroes and Mario & Luigi Paper Jam have solid reasons for being 3DS titles rather than being Wii U ones.
Furthermore, as this E3 was focused on 2015 titles, I'm not all too worried about the lack of new Wii U titles announced. There are already plenty of Wii U games that I wish to purchase this year, and hopefully the lack of Wii U games shown was simply due to many of them being 2016 releases, given how it would naturally take longer for them to make Wii U titles than 3DS games.
It's funny how people compartmentalize to keep the stereotypes strong in their mind. Wii U has had plenty of third-party support, just not the same extent as PS4 and Xbox One. The problem with relying on Indies is that people already have in their mind that they're largely not worth purchasing a console for, even if they exist alongside awesome (primarily) exclusive retail games in Nintendo's case. Xbox One and PS4 had the same issues as Wii U did at and after launch, yet nobody cared. Know why? Because nobody wanted Wii U to succeed. Plain and simple.
@Kimite #136 if jrpg is your kind, you should give Ps Vita a go. It is fulfilled with great jrpg, I am enjoying persona and Ys a lot now. Plus if you are on monster hunter, you ll find great "clones" there too (soul sacrifice, toukiden, freedom wars). Just like wiiU, it is a very niche machine, but great for any japanese game lovers.
@arnoldlayne83
Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, The World Ends With You, (Okami), Shin Megami Tensei, the "Tales of" series, (Pokémon Mystery Dungeon), Ninokuni and more games like that .
There are probably many great games on the PS Vita and there games that have poked my interest . Still I may have the money for a PS Vite, but not the time in terms of my backlog ;-_-.
If you wonder Arnold I will get a PS4 for Kingdom Hearts 3 .
I believe the Wii U is the best console released since the SNES. In my opinion, the 3 greatest gaming systems of all time (from any company) are below in this order:
1. SNES
2. 3DS
3. Wii U
I am aware of the shotcomimgs of the Wii U, and it's lack of third party support is abysmal. But the Wii U's first party games are the finest, funnest and most incredible games Nintendo has ever produced. Mario Kart 8 absolutely blows away any previous version of the game (I've put over 300 hours into this game). Super Mario 3D World is the best Mario platformer ever made. Splatoon is arguably the Wii U's best title, and is worth buying a Wii U just for that game alone. I could go on, but my point is the Wii U provides true joy and the highest quality first party titles ever. While my PS4 is entertaining, my Wii U conquers it in the fun department. Despite its issues, the Wii U is Nintendo's greatest console since the SNES.
@Captain_Gonru - OK you nit picky old guy, it's not just the "Retail" in the tile, it's the whole title. retail just jumped out at me. It's like the title is trying to be all encompassing yet specific at the same time. it's too long and meandering. "Wii U 3rd party support sucks", that says it all, but we've known that for about 2 years, so I don't understand the need for a talking point right now, or the part after the comma. Retail was just my focus for "what's the point?". Picky picky.
I think the final question about third party support for Wii U comes down to this: Did Wii U sales slump because third parties were not on board or were third parties not on board because Wii U sales slumped? I think an argument could be made for either scenario, and I'm curious where people come down on that question.
On one hand the system its self was somewhat confusing for consumers in the early days and it was middling in terms of power and scant in terms of content in general. But on the other hand people who were on the fence may have decided against purchase due to the lack of third party content and lost interest completely when that trend continued. I seriously wonder how much of a difference more early third party support would have made for the system.
@Kimite #140 yeah... I know what you mean... I am also submerged by a huge backlog between ps4, vita, wiiu and 3ds!
Anyway, it seems starting from this year, seeing the success of final fantasy among PS fanbase, a lot of jrpg will be ported to western Playstation 4 market! I guess you ll have plenty of fun! Still the next big one will be Xenoblade on wiiU, can t wait for it!
@DrDingus #145 I believe a bigger difference would have been a stronger first party lineup at launch (galaxy 3 in full hd, super mario U togrther with Mario Maker, a Metroid game) plus better hardware specs. I remember a lot of people already mocking the system about how dated it looked like, prior the launch...
3rd parties where well on board at launch, that s why I got the console...
Wii U doesn't have a lot of games but a large percentage of its games are of top quality. That's what matters to me.
Plus, very few non-Nintendo games appeal to me.
@arnoldlayne83 (Yup I changed my profile picture and I think it describe my taste ^^).
Anyway, yes my backlog is huge too.
And yes Square Enix and other JRPGs companies are focusing on the PS4 instead of Wii U ;^^. I think Square Enix should have released some Virtual Console games at least on the Wii U if not big games like Final Fantasy 15 :-/. (Kingdom Hearts 3 Wii U/NX ;^;).
Either way I will probably get a PS4 sooner or later, but before that I will probably buy Wii U's JRPGs like Xenoblade X and SMTvsFE .
I love my Wii U, but without my New3DSXL and PS4 I would be lost. So it's an good to great console, but next time I want something better, something outstanding or even amazing.
@jfavreau Let's see...joined 18 minutes ago, and that's your first post. Interesting...
@Kimite me too, even if X will be probably my only wiiu game purchase for the rest of 2015. I commute a lot lately for work and i got soaked into persona 4 on vita. Great great jrpg! After this i will wait persona 5 which is ps4 exclusive and looks very promising.
Concerning FF 15, I highly doubt that wiiU could run that graphics properly... Plus it seems they are late in development again! Let s see at gamescon if they will announce a release date or not...
Let me give everyone who thinks the Wii U is a dud a reason to pick one up....wait for it....wait for it...S_P_L_A_T_O_O_N. I cannot think of another game more worthy to shell out funds to purchase a console. Pick up the Splat👀n Deluxe console at Best Buy right now. Very worth it...you get a free pro controller along with a digital version of GOTY (imo) Splat👀n and a very fun group game in Nintendoland. So many other quality games as well.
@NintendoFan64 You do realize that rumors can be true and the source of this very rumor came from a guy who was right about them multiple times in the past.
@arnoldlayne83
I can understand why Xenoblade X would be the last Wii U game you buy in 2015, but there will likely be other interesting titles coming to the Wii U that we just don't know about yet . I haven't tried the Persona series yet, but maybe in the future I might.
As for Final Fantasy 15 on Wii U I understand just from a graphical standpoint that it isn't likely ;^^. Hopefully Sqaure Enix will show a lot of good stuff on Gamescon and on TGS . Still I would like some Square Enix games on my Wii U ^^.
Plenty of blame to go around, I feel. The third-party publishers are making an economic decision, one that hurts their standing with Nintendo fans. It's also hurting Nintendo's console sales. The best solution seems to be Nintendo developing in conjunction with the third parties, everyone doing a better marketing job, and finding ways not only for a larger install base, but ine that wants multiplats on Nintendo instead of something else.
I mean? You can't blame a developer or publisher for not wanting to lose money through poor sales on a system. That's not great PR, but it's not laziness either. It's a sensible business move. Something has to change in the console dynamic to shake everyone out of this position.
@jfavreau I still haven't forgiven you for Couples Retreat.
I've been playing Nintendo consoles since the NES, & a few great games aside, the Wii U is easily the worst. Like I said there are a few great games, but nothing new or innovative (despite what fanbots will try to say) but it could have been so much more. Nintendo used to be great......today they're about sucking their thumbs & only taking names which are Mario.
Come out guns a blazing with your new console ffs, enough with the weak console launches!!! (3DS/Wii U)
@EngieBengie They were wrong about NoA not publishing Devil's Third here, so they can very well be wrong here. And no, I don't believe in the rumor that NoA was originally not publishing it here, but then did a complete 180' just because of fan outrage in the span of ONE DAY, because let's be real here, fan input rarely has anything to do with their decisions. They just sort of do whatever they want.
@The_Dude_Abides ...It is to my understanding, based on this post and various others you've made, that you are not rather fond of Nintendo. With that said...why the Heck don't you just ignore them completely? I mean, if you hate them so much, it would only seem logical, because otherwise you visiting a site for a company you hate just to keep saying how you hate them and that they should go third-party, as well as keeping an eye on them just to see when they screw up next, kinda makes you looks like a troll.
@Vineleaf sorry wrong Favreau
@The_Dude_Abides "No publisher or developer wants to create games for Nintendo hardware anymore, it's been this way since the N64."
Yeah, that's why the Wii, GBA, DS, and 3DS barely have any third party support, oh wait. If you're not going to contribute to the discussion and just make yourself look like an idiot don't even bother to waste your time commenting.
@Vineleaf That's why I'm hoping the NX will be easier to port to. It lowers the amount of money publishers need to spend to release their games on the system. And once the projected profit from sales overshadow the cost of porting games, we'll see third parties start coming back to Nintendo.
nintendo games themself with 3 exceptions have not sold well, 3rd party games sell terrible, the system has been geared towards kids, its a distant 3rd, nintendo online is terrible, there system is terrible spec wise, there e3 shows a 3 major game future, why would anyone put extra resources into that controller... when the system isnt even number 1 or 2....its last
I just play video games.
And Wii U has some fantastic video games to play.
I cherish the system. I play it more than Xbox One or Vita, and about the same as PS4 and 3DS.
I try to stay away from all the politics and "logical reasons" why it shouldn't be admired (arguments using logic like "well game A, B and C isn't available, therefore system = bad)
Does it have its flaws? Sure. Do I enjoy the heck out of it regardless? You bet.
@The_Dude_Abides And I think you need to go back to school. Even if you despise the hell out of Nintendo, you know you're lying out of your butt if you don't think any of those consoles have tons of third party support. I suggest you look at those console's game library again, because 90% of my DS, Wii, and 3DS games are third parties.
@Grumblevolcano If it makes you feel better, there's a good chance that your Wii U was sitting on a shelf for a long while before you bought it.
Since people are throwing Wii U under the bus from their own small personal viewpoint I shall do the opposite. Just played Nintendo Land (specifically Battle Quest) yesterday with the whole family all at once and advanced a little further in the Master levels. We were yelling and working together and using spectacularly arranged asynchronous gameplay using the GamePad all in the same room with giant smiles on our faces. Nothing else offers this fun for us. Nothing. And Nintendo had this game play formula rocking with us from launch day onward.
Not saying Nintendo isn't tanking fast in the console space with its current trajectory or that Nintendo Land didn't have huge issues with presentation and it certainly didn't persuade people to buy the console, but for me and mine it has been one of the best video game experiences we've ever had.
@abe_hikura The Dreamcast was one heck of a console. A shame it didn't have a full-life. Guess the brightest stars fade fastest.
@The_Dude_Abides I had no intention of replying to any of your comments, given your earlier comment implied you were not here to seek discussion as a fan but merely to observe, but I guess your comment regarding 'The Wii didn't have great 3rd party support' struck a nerve in me.
The Wii has a great many 3rd party games. Sure, a lot of it's library is accused of being shovelware, but in having so many 3rd party games, there are also plenty of great ones to be found amongst it. The two Red Steel games, the two No More Heroes games, A Boy and His Blob, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Fragile Dreams - Farewell Ruins Of The Moon -, Final Fantasy Fables Chocobo's Dungeon, Dragon Ball Z Budokia Tenkaichi 2 & 3, Sonic Colours, and Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars.
Sure, it may not have had every single multi-platform game that could be found on the 360/PS3/PC, but it had plenty of 3rd party games that was made for the Wii in mind, and even when it came to 3rd party multi-platform games, it was still able to secure some such as the Call of Duty games and the regular EA sports titles.
The Wii had 3rd party support. Some of it good, some of it bad, but most of all; it had lots of it!
@SahashraLA
That interpretation of bits is pretty out there. I thought it was the register size of the CPU (some cases some funny math with GPUs) and we are at 64-bit.
@The_Dude_Abides What DOES represent the "great" 3rd party support?
Edit: Also, I looked it up, and there are about 1527 Wii games, and I highly doubt that every single one of them was made by Nintendo. Non-existent...yeah, right...
@The_Dude_Abides Oh boy, here comes the handhelds don't count argument that has been disproven to death. Handhelds are gaming consoles, no way around it. There is a reason why wikipedia consider them to be portable consoles. The Wii had the most third party games last gen. Even if most of it was shovelware, you're still completely delusional when it comes to that topic. Also, if you're going to say the Wii didn't have third party support because it was getting the games the PS3 and PC was getting, then where was their De Blob, where was their No More Heroes, where was their Sonic Colours, where was their Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars, where was their Xenoblade, ect? We can keep naming third parties the PS3, PC, and Wii had till the end of the world if you want to. And don't you dare say none of those games was good, because all of those games where well recieved and was exclusive to the Wii. And if you're going to respond with "Y-you're just delusional" again I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, because that would just prove that you're ignorant, no good, Sony fanboy.
@YoshiTails If it wasn't for sega developing another system along side it, draining even more of their funds and the other behind the scenes. I think dreamcast could of out did the PS2
@The_Dude_Abides Dude. We have been able to counter pretty much all of your arguments...you really can't accept that you're wrong, can you?
@The_Dude_Abides So you going to just complete ignore everything I said and just proceed to insult for no reason what so ever? That just shows your true color, you're nothing more than an ignorant manchild that everybody should ignore. This will be the final time I'll be responding to you, because you just can accept the fact that you're wrong. If anybody mental it's you.
@The_Dude_Abides ...Go ahead. Keep insulting people, and continue to be this arrogant. I demand you do that. Because one day, it's going to backfire. BADLY. Don't say I didn't warn you.
it is a hard period for nintendo, and certainly for wii u owners. I don't blame nintendo for the poor titles. I don't look for excuses but i'm a little bit sad that we don't have GTA V or tomb raider but i'm glad for the titles that came and for what's coming now
Meanwhile, analysts are scrutinizing Microsoft over the Xbox, calling for them to exit the hardware business. Apparently the brand is barely profitable, if at all, despite console sales soaring.
@IceClimbers Actually, the brand has been largely a money sink for MS, but they use it as a means of getting their OS to more people. Apparently some of the board members have wanted Ballmer (not sure on spelling there) to spin the brand off. Stark contrast with Sony, whose PS is the only thing keeping the company relevant. Both MS and Sony aren't doing very well on the whole, tbh.
I own a Wii U for my 3 and 4 year old daughters who love watching Mario (my 3 year old calls him her boyfriend), and the colorful games that are on it. I like it for the fact that these games can be shown to them...I don't have to turn the volume down so no cuss words are being said, or flip the game off due to violence, which is what makes it fun, and it got them into bowling with Wii Sports, so I'm not that disappointed...as for 3rd party games and more T and M rated titles that I'd enjoy...I have a PS3 and PS4 for that...and yes, my kids still love playing the playstation games too (the family friendly ones of course). The Wii U may be counted as a console failure for nintendo, but it will be that system that everyone will want to try and find and games that they will try to get to collect for it in 10 years or more. I still go into retro game stores, and find people wanting to purchase the Gamecube (one of my favorite systems), and that system didn't do too well either.
@IronMan28 Pretty much. I think Microsoft is going to eventually stop making Xbox consoles and instead just have an Xbox app on Windows devices. Might be a while before that happens though.
"Wii U Gamers Have Been Treated Poorly By The Third-Party Retail Scene"
It's not only the third-party's fault, but also Nintendo's fault. If you want third-party's on board of your console, you have to invest. Like Sony and Microsoft do all the time.
@Souldin @Chaoz @NintendoFan64 @The_Dude_Abides
Everyone of us is different and we all have different tastes and that something we all have to respect . I shouldn't have to say it, but it seems like I have and that goes especially to you also The_Dude _Abiders ;^^. I know this comment might be unnecessary, but it seems like everyone could need a reminder sometimes.
The big third party games we have on the Wii U might not be many, but they are better than nothing in my view .
(Also I am going to bed now, so I will respond in some hours if anyone want to contact me. Still this is not a message you need to reply to, as I just wanted to say it).
Before we regard Project Cars as the final nail in the coffin, we need to consider if Project Cars is worth getting upset about. Only one reader review currently on gamefaqs, but it stated the car mechanics are off....and that is not a good thing for a racer no matter how good looking.
As I said before, I love my Wii U (and its gamepad) and MK8, Bayonetta 1-2, NSMBU, Super Mario 3D World, and the incredible Spaltoon. I only regret purchasing a handful of deeply discounted 3rd party games that were not even worth the discounted price. It would be a shame if the Big N moved to quickly onto its next console, but I suspect the wii u will be integrated with the NX not replaced by it.
It's all because Nintendo used power pc and not x86 architecture for Wii U! If Nintendo had used x86 then it would of been easier to develop for Wii U. If Nintendo did that and gave it more power then third parties wouldn't have to optimise their games, thus spending money, effort and time.
There's a lot of games that's on PS4, Xbox One and PC but not on PS3 or Xbox 360. Because of that, alongside low sales, third parties don't bother spending time, money, effort and resources to release on Wii U.
"has helped Nintendo learn valuable lessons while forging strong partnerships with the likes of Tecmo Koei, PlatinumGames and Bandai Namco." - Nintendo has show it only cares to work with Japanese devs with the Wii U. Ignoring Western devs and publishers has caused the failure we see today. Will Nintendo learn? Who knows. But they must foster relationships with Western devs if they want a successful console outside of Japan
This article is actually the most interesting one I have ever read! Nice job nintendoLife
I own almost all third party games and I am very satisfied cause I can also play amazing games like super smash bros. Yah sure I am disappointed but the gamepad was worth the lack of games... Anyways the project cars disappointed is a big loss but I believe that something very good will come out of all this (like a mind-blowing devils third online, we never know) I also personally think that Nintendo didn't work hard enough to do marketing on third party games and big companys like Eb games were very bad too...
@IceClimbers Micorsoft includes the Surface tablet products in with the Xbox consoles under the umbrella "Computing and Gaming Hardware" so it's impossible to say how well the Xbox is actually doing, and they still don't seperate 360 and XB1 sales figures.
@Mr_Zurkon Indeed. That overall is barely breaking even. Sales are irrelevant if they aren't making profit.
@IceClimbers Speaking of which, Q4 results for MS show an operating loss of 2.1 billion with revenues of 22.2 billion.
I'm still bitter about Crysis 3. It was supposed to be a launch title and EA said NOPE before the console was even released.
@Chaoz @NintendoFan64 oh my god you guys just got trolled so hard!! Want to know how? Cause he said something that he knew would piss off someone and it was you! I didn't even have to read his other comments to know that and this is the part that should have hinted you guys as well. "Nintendo should leave the hardware business and go 3rd party."Boom! And @The_Dude_Abides You sir are okay in my book.Oh this train of glory and love. Where will it lead us?
I've been satisfied between the Nintendo games and Indie eShop offerings. Let's face it: most 3rd party games aren't usually worth paying full-retail for and end up being $20 bargain-bin games after a few months, and I'd rather just play the Indie eShop games, which are usually a little more unique than the stuff 3rd parties do that are just tried-and-true types of games.
@Nintendofan83 sane here. I got an Xbone last August . It's a cool system , but it makes me love the Wii u more. it has sharp looking games, wnd i'm glad i have it so that i can get the occasional multiplat, but my heart is with Nintendo .
@iphys What isn't tried and true these day's? If it's still fun for people it shouldn't matter what you're playing.
I have had no regrets with owning s Wii U. I won't deny that I would have like some more "AAA" titles. Having said that I have been happy with the first party/indie/virtual console titles. It's even to the point where I consider my PC as my second "console".
@TwilightAngel That some rather flawed logic considering people say alot of things here that would normally piss people off unironically on a daily bases and @The_Dude_Abides isn't any different. If he's a troll then so is Quorthon and many others, plus if he is actually a troll it just prove my point about him being a manchild even further.
@Chaoz He's been saying that alot in his posts. He wants them to go third party,he wants them to stop making console.I know cause i read them when he made them. That's how i knew he was trolling or or he really wants that. Either way it's not something to get mad about, why? Cause you and i know it's not gonna happen.
I think part of the problem (at least from my perspective) is that these days a lot of developers seem to want to make one game across many platforms, rather than trying to make the most of an individual console (which is really what the Wii U is about in the first place). The Wii U is intended to be unique yet one of its perceived short comings is that it doesn't directly compete with Xbox One and PS4 (and it shouldn't).
I've always argued this; the Wii U has everything it needs to be a great console. It has enough power to pull of the great line-up of games that it has (key word "enough" - too much emphasis on power this gen when it should be on FUN with ENOUGH graphics-wise). It has everything the Wii had except Gamecube support (and this should NOT be a bad thing - just needed better marketing) AND a Gamepad/Touchscreen AND HD. Yet it's really quite stupid how the focus falls mostly on "power". It's pretty much been negative from the start (with devs dismissing it, not supporting it, and then gamers pretty much being given less incentive to bother - repeating a cycle of negativity for the console).
Honestly, I think it's lack of proper success is disappointing not just because of its potential, but because of what it means for consoles. I haven't used much of the PS4 (though i'm honestly not really impressed with the times I have) and the Xbox One (which I have also) is a frustrating console (has its own problems) with a poorly designed dashboard and issues all round.
Frankly the Wii U has provided the most fun and had the best philosophy of the lot. If it's all about power, then given the kinds of proposed changes made to gaming, such as the move from local multiplayer [e.g. games like Halo 5] and the attempts of change that Microsoft tried with the Xbone (always online, DRM etc), then we all may as well just have PC's. The main reasons for having consoles are slowly dying out and for me at least (we can just use controllers on PC's and they can do most entertainment things anyway), with one of the only reasons left being that first party games that are held hostage on them.
My wiiu has gotten a crazy amount of playtime. I've found myself falling out of love with a number of AAA third party games (Mass Effect and Dragon Age have pretty much made me hesitant to buy from Bioware) and I've fallen in love with the wiiu's titles.
Even my pc, despite me getting games all the time is getting very little playtime for me. I love the gamepad and some really fun and creative titles have come out for the system that keep me pressing that power button on the gamepad. I'm still trying to 100 percent W101 and bayonetta, working through deus ex right now (I started it on pc and decided to give the wiiu version a whirl...have since uninstalled from pc) and splatoon just destroys free time.
I'm almost afraid of xenoblade x because I think it is going to make me put down fallout 4 when it comes out. Sure I have a wish list like everyone else but at 40 retail games and I think about 30 eshop/vc (mostly eshop) I've more than gotten my money's worth. Plus I'm going through my wii backlog since i can play on the gamepad when I go to bed.
I think for a nintendo gamer this is one of their best systems as they have had to make a very strong first party showing to make up for the lack of third party. Do I wish that third parties would be a bit more consumer centric and try to work with nintendo? Sure, because let's face it, unless nintendo is wiling to pay for dev and publishing most of the big third parties won't come back even if the NX is the mythical savior some people are hoping for in terms of specs. They are still going to blame fanbase. However that just seems to be the nature of the beast. They heydays of having tons of studios and games spread all around are over. Most of the studios we grew up with are hurting financially so they focus on one or two franchises now with mixed results all around...others have simply gone under. I keep wondering about this mass exodus of third party assistance people are asking about because I don't even see it on the ps4/xbox one side so far (except indie as that seems to be thriving).
@electrolite77 Yet Third parties where bankrupting themselves over programming and developing expensive HD games for the PS3 which wasn't, at the start developer friendly....How convent for you to overlook the past....
Anyway, out all of the games you, do you even know if they were marketed or not? I recall reading that Zack and Wiki were basically sent out to die via Capcom.
Whats up with blaming the customers for the lack of sales. All that mean is the software isn't compelling in the first place...
@YoshiTails Hello, soul mate
I'm in agreement. I think that Nintendo system owners do put Nintendo games first, but let's face it third parties did themselves little favour and their seemed to be no real commitment to the system unless it sold massively. That might make business sense on some level, but doing things like delaying Rayman Legends cost at least my sale and I'm sure there were others like me, prepared to buy at the original date who had moved on given the more crowded first party schedule by the time of the multi-platform title launch: can't blame anyone but Ubisoft for that.
In the end it doesn't matter much to me. I was in a shop looking at the PSBONE displays and nothing was attracting my eye at all: I saw a few racing games, sports titles and third or first-person action/shooters - basically the same stuff as was available on the PS/360. There is just nothing to attract me to those other consoles, so if Nintendo did drop out of making machines I guess I'd just drop out of gaming consoles again like I did during the PS2/Xbox era. As long as the big "AAA" publishers keep relying upon endless franchise entries and similarly-themed games I'm not buying their stuff; as long as Nintendo keeps putting out interesting quality titles I'll keep buying their stuff. Pretty simple!
@Sean_Aaron
"As long as the big "AAA" publishers keep relying upon endless franchise entries and similarly-themed games I'm not buying their stuff"
I hope the irony doesn't escape you when you are playing the latest Star Fox game or the dozens of other retreads on Nintendo. Good lord...
There are great games available on all the consoles. I don't understand how someone's tastes can be so narrow as to only believe that Nintendo games are of any worth.
@Malakai
"Whats up with blaming the customers for the lack of sales. All that mean is the software isn't compelling in the first place..."
No, it just means that people who generally buy Nintendo consoles do not like the types of games that other developers produce. For example, see the post from the dude above my previous one. He only enjoys rainbow-colored games featuring children's cartoon characters and doesn't like anything else.
@NintendoFan64
No worries. It was pretty funny last gen to see MS and Sony zealots ripping each other apart over machines with very similar libraries battling for second place....
@Malakai
Read my original post. I said the blame had to be shared around as it does. If consumers don't buy a good game its their fault. While I acknowledge the effect of marketing which was brought into the debate by another poster it doesn't excuse consumers not getting themselves informed enough therefore they are their share of responsibility.
I don't think I have mentioned this in my big post here, but how profitable have the sales been for the big third parties on the Wii U? (Some other people have probably mentioned it before here).
From what I understand big third party games haven't been all that successful on the Wii U and I am not sure which fault it is, but something still vent wrong in the first 2 years of Wii U's lifecycle ;^^. Which part that should have the most blame I am not sure, but many people would likely say Nintendo for bad marketing and not polishing the Wii U enough before launching it or just that the Wii U is hard to port to in general and overall sales ;^^.
In the end what lead to the Wii U's low third party number I am not 100% sure of, but I think more games like Child of Light and games that aren't 16/18+ would help more third parties see that many Nintendo fans like myself just have a special taste .
Pretty much every home console ever released has a handful of gems, just like the Wii U, but every single time I hear someone talk about the Wii U like it was anything other than a pretty big disappointment and basically a total flop, I just have to call bull. It has a handful of truly great games, a bunch of design niggles (in the hardware, firmware and services), almost no third party support, is looking to be Nintendo's lowest selling home console ever, and is probably going to have one of the shortest lifespans of a Nintendo home console too. The thing is just a total failure, but the truly sad part is it had all the potential in the world to be something genuinely special. With a little more foresight in certain design elements and far better taking advantage of its strengths from day one; I really think the Wii U could have been a success. Sadly Nintendo just didn't figure out how to properly take avantage of all that potential, and it's too late now to figure out that games like Super Mario Maker and Art Academy: Atelier are basically ideal for showing off how unique and compelling good use of the GamePad can actually be. This kind of stuff should have been there from day one.
@Sean_Aaron
"As long as the big "AAA" publishers keep relying upon endless franchise entries and similarly-themed games I'm not buying their stuff; as long as Nintendo keeps putting out interesting quality titles I'll keep buying their stuff. Pretty simple!"
But you're happy with Nintendo putting out sequel after update after sequel? And you dropped out of gaming to miss out on the PS2 and GC with their tons of interesting quality titles that weren't endless franchise entries? You think PS360 just have racers, sports games and actions shooters?
There isn't a bit of this that makes sense. Bit of research needed here chief.
@HollywoodHogan @electrolite77 The reason is pretty obvious. Nintendo doesn't do market oversaturation, you'll get maybe one entry in a series per system; possibly two, whereas you can guarantee multiple franchise entries from publishers on other consoles as quickly as they can churn them out. How many Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo, Gears of War, Need for Speed games are out on PS360 right now?. If Nintendo was putting out a new Zelda or Super Mario Galaxy game every year I wouldn't be buying them - heck I skipped Super Mario Galaxy 2 on the Wii (it's on my Wii U hard drive now, though).
And yes, I'm fully aware of the gems from the PS2/GameCube era, but I've moved on since then and I don't feel the poorer for missing those. Another era of 3D gaming with a dual-stick joypad didn't have any draw for me and I had other priorities, what can I say?
I also know there's more to the PS/360 than the three genres I named, but those are far and away the dominant ones and they are the most-promoted and biggest draws on the systems, you cannot deny that. If those kinds of games disappeared from those machines tomorrow I guarantee sales would crash through the floor.
LOL at everyone saying the Wii U has a great first party lineup. Maybe by comparison to Microsoft and Sony, but that's not really saying much. The first party lineup for all three is mediocre at best.
Also; here's a point, just in response to people maybe blaming part of the fault of gamers not buying third party games, or third parties not developing games for Wii U, or whatever, for its failure:
The circumstances and events that led to the Wii U's failure are not a paradox. It is in fact possible to trace the issues back to where they all started, and even if we just look at Wii U as the starting point and don't consider previous Nintendo consoles or Nintendo's previous dealings; I think it's relatively clear the Wii U's failure rests mainly at the feet of Nintendo.
You can't just blame consumers for not buying third party games because very few games ever sell more than a fraction of the systems total install base anyway and Wii U's install base is kinda pathetic. A third party game selling less than a million units on a system with less that ten million total install base probably isn't actually that unusual. That's why having as large as possible install base out the gate and in total, as just ONE factor, is important to any console.
You can't just blame third parties for not supporting the system because it's difficult to commit to a system that is tracking low unit sales and will inevitably yield low software sales for most third party games just by virtue of the percentages. It also not ideal to have to develop your games for less powerful hardware, with an awkward development architecture; and especially when you already know it's probably going to track to relatively low sales upfront anyway. Then there's having to think about supporting random features you otherwise wouldn't have to think about, as well as maybe not being able to support some features that you know most of your potential consumers would take for granted and would be frustrated if they didn't get. As well as some other factors.
I won't go into all the details but I think the Wii U's problems mostly started at a point and time (although not all at the the same point and time) where the only real source you can blame is Nintendo itself.
I'd say while things haven't been the best possible for the Wii U I've still been pretty happy with it. I've been able to enjoy some really good games on the console, and I still have a few games on my list that I still need to get. It teams up nicely with my gaming PC and 3DS and I don't regret for one moment investing in it.
@Sean_Aaron i don t understand what s wrong in having more than one game per franchise on a console cycle.... If I love a franchise, I wanna have more of it, I am happy to have more! At least, on other consoles I can choose between action, sports, fighting, simulations, racers, frpg, wrpg, platformers, fps, tps, adventures, musous... Is it a bad thing? How can it be? I do not understand this typical nintendo fan attitude.
Plus cmon, Nintendo is the one that rebrand the most its popular franchises.... And the first party wiiu lineup is flooded by 2d platformers... We got a lazy Mario 2d at launch, a 2.5 Mario same as 3ds one, a DK very similar to the wii one, a kirby that play like the ds one and a yoshi one.... The most original was Rayman, that at least tried to make good use of the gamepad....
@enderboy221 Arkham City Armoured Edition was great and included all the DLC up to that point on-disc. Arkham Origins was, I've heard, a decent enough port in and of itself, but it's what they're referring to when they mention the lack of extra content.
@MrGawain You've got that right. That very well explains my tastes and interests, at least.
@Bolt_Strike Whilst admittedly, it has yet to reach the heights of the Wii's 1st party line-up, it is worth noting that the Wii U's life-cycle has yet to end.
So far, it's had a pretty great collection of 1st party games. Super Mario 3D World finally made dreams come true for me as it became the first 3D Mario game that I actually enjoyed. The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD showed off how the subtle innovations of the Gamepad could vastly improve an already amazing game, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze also greatly improved upon it's predecessor and offered a wonderful co-op experience. Splatoon meanwhile has been a lot of addictive fun, filled with charm.
Would the likes of Hyrule Warriors still count as first party given that the IP itself is first party? If so, that would be another game I'd point out.
Ultimately though, the matter of personal opinion will obviously affect one's views on the matter. For instance, many would bring up Super Smash Bros for Wii U when it comes to great 1st party Wii U titles, whereas I do not as it was a massive disappointment for me. Meanwhile, I believe from what I've seen of your comments here and there, that you were not too fond of Super Mario 3D World.
@Kirk While I do feel that a good level of blame does lie with Nintendo, I can understand the approach they took and still find that some blame does still lie on the 3rd parties.
I truly only fault Nintendo in two areas when it comes to the launch of the Wii U; lack of strong marketing for it's system and titles (including 3rd party titles), and lack of preparation for HD development. There needed to be better and clearer marketing of the system, and given how long it had been since the other companies had their struggles with entering HD development, Nintendo should have used foresight to tackle that problem earlier on.
The difference in power though is an area I do not fault Nintendo on. Greater power would have come at the cost of a greater price, one I certainly wouldn't have been able to afford at launch, and I ultimately do not see it as a reason as to why the Wii U is lacking 3rd party games. After all, last year there were still plenty of 3rd party games that were releasing for Xbox 360 and PS3, and there are even some which are releasing for those 7th generation systems both in this year, and in the next. A lack of power is clearly not an obstacle, as from my understanding, the Wii U is at least stronger than the Xbox 360 and PS3.
An of course, when it comes to 3rd parties, there way of going about the launch of the Wii U was particularly bad. Many people have already outlined the problems with a lot of the titles that 3rd parties released for the Wii U in it's first year, and the way they seemed to judge the interest in all future titles based on these earlier sales.
I certainly feel that is an issue wherein the faults lie not with any singular group.
@MrGawain Your theory is correct as far as I'm concerned. That sounds just like me.
@MrGawain
I agree with you too and I am one of those people myself . I am a Nintendo/Square Enix type and I would love to see more Square Enix games on the Wii U ^^.
@Kirk
I think the third parties can take a lot of the blame because there's absolutely no precedent that they'd actually support the WiiU appropriately even if it sold well. Take a look at what they did when Nintendo had the Wii.
http://pietriots.com/2010/12/17/the-3rd-party-wall-of-shame/
Nintendo took an dominating lead in the 7th with even more consoles sold than the PS4 did in the same time and what is the output of the third parties? The same companies developing the system sellers for PS3/360 were some of the biggest sources of shovelware for the leading console. If you look at Ubisoft developed games it's almost arguable between Rayman Legends, ZombiU, Child of Light and Assasin's Creed III and IV that the paltry WiiU support is actually superior to their Wii support when you discount games they didn't develop like No More Heroes.
They put very little no effort in supporting the Wii, when games like Just Dance and Skylanders were proof if they did put some effort in third parties could do tremendously well with new IP on a Nintendo System. Resi IV Wii edition selling almost as well as the PS2 version and better than the GC version, CoD 3 selling better than the PS3 version and almost as well as the 360 version(despite Microsoft getting exclusive advertising rights) was another sign early on but they did nothing to build on it.
If these companies produced more than the odd quality game for the system and supported the Wii like the way PS3/360 they probably wouldn't have had trouble selling their games on WiiU, hell the Wii probably would have sold even more. But they arguably spent 7th gen bailing the PS3 out of trouble and building their audience away from the lead platform that when the WiiU did launch their audience was firmly established on PS3 and 360 to transition to PS4 and X1.
I know the WiiU is failing hard but I have so many games for it it's ridicules! And! I just bought 7 new games today for it, all 3rd party. Sure they are not full retail price but they are gems I've seem people mention on here today.
Watch dogs
Batman Arkham City
Batman Arkham Origins
Ninja Gaiden 3
Injustice
Need for Speed Most Wanted
Darksiders 2 (sold my last copy a year ago)
Biggest regret of this gen for me is buying an xbone, I'm only holding onto it to play Rare Collection next month. I just don't like the system at all this gen. But it's such a shame the WiiU doesn't get 3rd party games. I'd buy them, as proven above, albeit, a year or two later so I guess that doesn't count. But still!
@arnoldlayne83
Ya I don't understand this guy either. I'd rather have a system with an over abundance of games, some of which I may not always want to play, rather than a console that only has one installment of a series and then leaves me hanging for 5-6 years before I can play another.
He also seems to consider each Nintendo 2D platformer which features a different main character (Kirby, yoshi, DK, Mario, Luigi, Rayman, etc) as a completely new and unique experience, while lumping together games like Last of Us, Tomb Raider, Batman and Gears of War as 'third person shooters' and dismissing them all as being the same kind of game..
People like this are unwilling to change their beliefs and don't even want to try playing different games, so there is no reason in engaging in a debate with them.
One thing I've never got with the Nintendo Defence Force arguments is that people say that late ports obviously won't sell because those that wanted the game would have bought it on the other platforms where it came out earlier. So you're saying the vast majority of people that would buy the game have another console anyway. So what incentive is there for the publishers to put their game on the Wii U? They're not missing out on any sales going by this argument because all the people that would buy it have another system.
@Peach64 true, but people are talking about ports of games that had been out for a year or two already on older systems so of course most people who wanted to play a particular game have it already on ps3 or x360 which those systems are dirt cheap in 2012/13 second hand so why would you pay €60 for a port of an old game with less content or no DLC support when you could by that game second hand for a €5 also?
We WiiU owners wanted the NEW games that were coming to the ps360 in 2012/13 not ports of old games with less content.
@readyletsgo
"We WiiU owners wanted the NEW games that were coming to the ps360 in 2012/13 not ports of old games with less content."
Why on earth would developers waste time or money developing titles for the Wii U, with its 5 million or so owners at that time, when they could make games for the 360 and PS3 who had a combined 160 million owners?
There's is no logical reason.
Especially when, as you said, many people already owned a PS3/360 anyway.
@Dr_Lugae Which tells you it's not just high sales of a console the leads to good third party support either—as I alluded to earlier—even though that is obviously one of the major factors. There's clearly more to it than that, and with the Wii it clearly wasn't the sales that failed to grab the attention of the third parties because it sold a lot of units, yet third parties didn't gravitate to the system in any major or serious way. It was obviously something else in the case of the Wii that resulted in either a lack of third party support and/or a lower quality of third party support—like the combination of being grossly underpowered, which was off-putting to many developers who were trying to create cutting-edge game experiences; lacking certain standard features and services, like CD/DVD/Blu-Ray playback, as just one example; being too different from everything else on the market, both in terms of the unique control input and the architecture, which made it more difficult to develop for and port to than the other systems... With the Wii U it was almost certainly all those things too that caused problems, PLUS the lack of sales, which is why it's currently Nintendo's lowest selling home console ever.
You can't blame developers for all the issues with Wii and now Wii U too, as they have clearly shown that if you give them a system they can get genuinely excited about, invest in, and that also makes good financial sense to them, then they will support it, which they have demonstrated with the Xbox One and PS4, and even still continue to do so with the last-gen Xbox 360 and PS3.
Developers are fully capable of and are indeed still making truly great games, just not on Nintendo systems. So, again, the buck ultimately stops at Nintendo.
I for one love my wiiU, despite the absence of major 3rd party support. The wiiU as have been mentioned was made to be unique but mostly just got ports of games that already had bargain prices elsewhere And were being sold at a premium price. If we were going to get ports at least bring us new games that's coming out the same time as everything else then people could actually have the wiiU as an option as to what system they would buy the game for. The indies have really stepped up and been the 3rd party support for wiiU. We gotten multiplatform indie releases, we got games being ported from studios like curve studios and we got awesome exclusives that's here and on the way that takes advantage of the wiiU abilities like affordable space adventures & runbow and hopefully they get the support they deserve. I just wish the small amount of major 3rd parties we have step it up, capcom could make a new tatsunoko vs capcom and also port over marvel vs capcom 3. Sega need to make a really great sonic exclusive like sonic colors or generations. Bandai needs to make pokken on wiiU. All we need is just a fell triple A 3rd party exclusives to help fill in the gap.
@Genesaur Let me ask this then, what do those third party games do to stand out on the WiiU vs other consoles? A lot of the third party launch games were older ports on older consoles which people are more likely to have for cheaper. Even newer stuff like Rayman didn't seem to do much to stand out over my ps4 copy. And that isn't a slam on just the WiiU cause the PS4 has the same issues when compared to my PC for me. I just don't wanna spend money on a lazy port. And I won't mind buying a game twice if I find it worth it, like MH3U or Wayfoward stuff. Publishers won't put effort into WiiU ports and it shows. I don't feel people should feel obligated to buy the lazy version because they "have to".
@HollywoodHogan you're not getting me, I'm talking about in 2012 and 2013 when the WiiU was new, when the ps3 and x360 were getting NEW games still, they could have ported the new x360 games to the WiiU at little cost as the WiiU is most like the 360 at the time. Not ports of older games, the new ones coming in those years. And the WiiU would have been a new system so not a massive user base but if there was 3rd party 'ports' of NEW games coming to the WiiU at the same time as the ps360 in the first year I think the WiiU would have gained a bigger audience. But 3rd party devs dropped support like a hot snot literally in the first 6 months because their 2 or 3 years old ported games didn't sell. Stupid logic in my eyes and very lazy in their part.
I still love my WiiU but it's dead, basically on arrival, nothing can be done about that.
@Dr_Lugae
They put shovelware on Wii because thats what sold. The likes of Zack and Wiki, Okami, No More Heroes 2, Red Steel 2, Boy and His Blob, Dead Space Extraction, Speed Racer, Muramasa etc. struggled while endless dodgy minigame collections and dancing games sold. Also I'm not sure about them not building on Resi and COD successes on the Wii. The two Resi on-rails shooters are good, the Cube games got ports and there are 5 COD games on the Wii.
@Souldin I still think that when you trace it all backwards and break down all the factors and causes that could lead to the failure of the Wii U, the buck stops at Nintendo.
@readyletsgo
"We WiiU owners wanted the NEW games that were coming to the ps360 in 2012/13 not ports of old games with less content."
Assassins Creed 4, Batman Arkham Origins, Rayman Legends, COD Ghosts, Splinter Cell Blacklist all launched at the same time as on other formats. Ass Creed 3, Tekken Tag 2, Darksiders 2 were only late because of the Wii U's launch date. Sonic Racing, Need for Speed and Deus Ex were late but improved to the status of best version.
@electrolite77 and I bought them all at the time, and again today (lol). They just stopped after that. Would have loved a tomb raider port, would have been simple and I would have bought it.
@arnoldlayne83 If you're a fan of those franchises then great; I'm not so having console line-ups dominated by them turns me off of those systems. Pretty straightforward and not a judgment against anyone who disagrees, though I know in modern gamer "culture" having an opinion that's outside the norm seems to imply judgment against anyone else even if you don't say anything like that.
And yes, there's too many platformers on the Wii U for my taste as well which is why I only get those that appeal to me: I didn't buy the new Kirby game and I avoid the majority of indies as they all seem to be puzzle or action platformers of one kind or another. I'm still on the fence about Super Mario Maker; only my daughter showing real interest is likely to get a buy from me as I already have mix of current and VC platform games and that's enough for me.
@Kimite Ubisoft reported that they make 2.5x more money on PS4 than XB1. Wii & Wii U accounted for 3% of their sales. PS4 and PC is where Ubi makes most of their money.
@readyletsgo #236 they stopped after that because it sold very poor. Almost every Non Nintendo game bombed on wiiU. Even tw101 bombed, and bayonetta sold not as it deserved (imo). That s basically it. The fanbase on Nintendo basically want classical nintendo games and that s all. Even masterpieces like galaxy 1 2 sold much more less than the newest 2d iterations of mario bros. Check the numbers, and look for an interesting video made by Game Theory about what sells on Nintendo fanbase.
Here people cry for innovation, but many are just stuck with the same stuff since 1983....
https://youtu.be/Cxhs-GLE29Q
What I am Talking about...
@readyletsgo Is it bad that I really want an XBone for the Rare Collection? But I can't justify buying a console for one game. Perhaps later when the price goes down I'll pick one up.
I'm fine with my Wii U library, and there are still a few games coming that I want, and who knows, maybe more down the line once we find out what the NX really is and if the Wii U Library really falls off a cliff in July 2016.
That said, nobody can seriously expect any Nintendo system to be on parity with 3rd party releases until it is on parity with power AND release date of the MS and Sony systems. Release it late, get the games already out on the other systems, that wont sell, and it's over.
It is unfortunate that Nintendo is in this chicken/egg problem with 3rd party releases. I picked up a few 3rd party games on Wii U, and some were good (Arkham City, ACIV), some weren't (Arkham Origins, Lego Series, Injustice). There "weren't" games were because of the lack of the full DLC, and oddly enough, were all WB games...
@arnoldlayne83 It's a sad cycle that constantly happens in the entire gaming industry. People cry for innovation but when it comes knocking on their doorstep very few people actually answer.
@Grumblevolcano Could have put all ME games on one disc if they had fath in the system, capacity is around 25GB
@Sean_Aaron You know, there's been a Zelda game every year, and sometimes multiple times a year, since 2013. Link Between Worlds, Wind Waker HD, Hyrule Warriors, Majora's Mask, TriForce Heroes this year and Hyrule Warriors 3DS at the beginning of Next year. But something tells me you don't mind those because you like the franchise. But somehow other companies releasing games every year is a bad thing?
Many people stated that the Gamecube didn't get 3rd party support like it was to, but I saw and owned many titles that were not just made by nintendo on it...and it grew to be my favorite console of that generation. The Wii came out, it was enjoyable for the first year, and I owned a few 3rd party games on it too that I thought were fun and great (The Munchables, Elebits, Dewey's Adventure, Nights, Red Steel, Mad World...etc). I may have gotten bored with the Wii after a while, but I still enjoyed it and I still go back to it. The Wii U is a good system, has its flaws (like all systems do), but it is enjoyable, and if there are at least 20 games that will make me come back to play it (and there is), then it's a worth while system to not only myself, but others that bought it. If you enjoy the system, then it's worth the money and you won't think its a flop. As the third parties go, there just there to fill gaps. I buy nintendo consoles for the nintendo games...I buy playstation for their exclusive games. If there's a third party game that comes out and looks enjoyable, I buy it on my system of choice...right now being PS4 but if it's a platform or party game that's 3rd party, I buy it on nintendo's consoles. I count nintendo as a family-fun console where the PS4 is my console for more hardcore games. I don't feel like I've been let down with the Wii U, just sad that it's not getting the support it deserves when the X-box One is struggling just as much, but I have noticed one thing. Since the N64 the PSOne got all the junk games...then the PS2 in the next generation, then the Wii in the previous generation, which means this generation will see PS4 getting everything. There seems to always be one console in every generation that gets all of the dump games. I guess what I'm mainly trying to say is this...throughout the whole gaming generations, here's my systems that I chose and played the most:
Nintendo NES
Sega Genesis (yeah, my cousin had the Super NES so I still played it)
Nintendo 64 (only after the Dreamcast failed)
Nintendo Gamecube (loved the controller and the exclusive games)
Playstation 3 (but still played the Wii to death)
Playstation 4 (but still comes back and plays Wii U for nintendo love)
@Operative I don't have a 3DS and I don't care about 3DS or any Nintendo handheld, so I don't see it as a new Zelda game every year. I had a Wii and there were two Zelda games (I'm not counting that peripheral-selling shooting game) on it. I have a Wii U and there have been zero new ones. Not a great example, but do keep on assuming you know what I like and enjoy as if we know each other. Always a good foundation for any Internet discussion with faceless strangers.
@Mr_Zurkon I didn't say anything about overall sale, I just mentioned Child of Light mostly really ;^^. What I meant that third parties or Ubisoft for that matter should try to make things that really appeal to us Nintendo fans .
Sure the titles that really sales for Ubisoft are games like Watch Dogs and Assassin Creed, but I have no interest in those kind of games and I want more titles like Child of Light . (Yes, I am a core Nintendo/Square Enix fan).
@Sean_Aaron
Oh I must have misread when you implied that developers that make more than 1 or 2 games per console are inferior
"Nintendo doesn't do market oversaturation, you'll get maybe one entry in a series per system; possibly two, whereas you can guarantee multiple franchise entries from publishers on other consoles as quickly as they can churn them out"
Lol just going by what you said. It doesn't matter if you didn't get all the games, that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has been "churning out" multiple Zelda games over the last two years. So yeah, you're a hypocrite.
@Kimite At 3% I wouldn't hold my breath for Ubisoft to do anything of the sort. I'd be curious how their numbers compare to other 3rd party publishers though, as that data is very telling.
@BLPs Are you trying to get attention? Cause no one asked you to keep going. Especially after you wrote this "45 minutes of negative comments and abuse then the joy is replaced with depression."
@Kirk It can be traced back to Nintendo actually. Specifically, it can be traced back to 2009/2010 when they were apparently not doing anything to prepare for the launch of the 3DS in terms of games. Them screwing up the 3DS's launch crippled the Wii U because they basically went all hands on deck making 3DS games to save the handheld, ignoring the Wii U in the process.
@IceClimbers 252. That s a very interesting aspect of tge whole story I ve never think about and it is very true!
@Mr_Zurkon
Well, according to Ubisoft Child of Light was profitable and they are going to make something related to Child of Light even though it might not be a sequel.
Also do the sales number include download numbers or just retail, because if it is just retail then it is a no brainer why the sales for the Wii U would be that low ;^^. Still in the end it is true that many Nintendo fans have a little bit non-mainstream taste or at least I have.
In the end each to their own .
@Operative I never said anything about developers, but I think I can say with certainty that your reading comprehension is inferior. Try again, if you must.
@Kimite Those numbers are total, retail & digital. The Wii & Will U were combined in Ubi's Q4 financials as well.
@Souldin Nintendo can't and probably isn't going to do much to change the Wii U's lineup with the NX just around the corner, we're probably going to see either a handful of Wii U games in 2016 before it moves on, or a lot of cross gen games. Either way, the era of Wii U exclusives is ending. So whatever problems the lineup currently has are likely to not change.
The thing about this lineup is that with the sole exception of Splatoon, Nintendo hasn't displayed that unbridled creativity and willingness to push gaming in new directions that they were known for in the past and continue to brag about to this day. 3D World is a great example of how that feeling is gone from this lineup, with past 3D Mario entries 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy creating bold new gameplay styles and mechanics that showed off the usefulness of their respective consoles and created fresh experiences not seen before. The same cannot be said for 3D World, which is in every sense NSMB in 3D and does virtually nothing to set it apart from the sea of generic Mario games that Nintendo's been limping to the barn with for the last 5 years.
@Mr_Zurkon
Still even if so, I have to say the only thing I really, really want is Square Enix games on my Wii U ;^^.
But it is Ubisoft we are talking about now and I can understand why Ubisoft sold more on the other platforms than Wii U as the Wii U got... well we could say not polished enough ports which also probably lead to fewer people buying the Wii U version ;^^.
Either way being mad about the past doesn't help and we can just hop that the third party support will be decent in the coming months too .
@Bolt_Strike The main reason for their current lack of innovation is due to their current situation. Nintendo was and still is struggling terribly with the Wii U and because of that they can't afford to take risks and innovate on it. As much as we hate to admit it, innovative games that diverge from the normal path of a franchise and innovate, don't tend to sell as much as the normal and original games.
@Bolt_Strike
64 and Galaxy? Yes. Sunshine? Absolutely not. All they did was add a gimmicky squirting mechanic. I'm saying that as someone who absolutely loves Sunshine. FLUDD was nothing more than a gimmick. A fun gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.
@Aromaiden Metroid Prime was definitely an anomaly there.
@Bolt_Strike I'd argue Super Mario Maker is more innovative than Galaxy.
@Grumblevolcano That's a bold argument.
@arnoldlayne83 #239, yup I like game theory, that was a good episode a few months back and I'm fully aware of sales etc. Just my opinion.
@Samuel-Flutter 'Is it bad that I really want an XBone for the Rare Collection? But I can't justify buying a console for one game. Perhaps later when the price goes down I'll pick one up.'
Don't do it! Xbone is a waste, to me anyway. I only got it cause I had a bit of a windfall a few months back with Halo collection and sunset overdrive, haven't turned it on since. I'm only getting the Rare collection so I can maybe turn the system on, and because it's under €20. Total regret buy tbh. I tried to sell it but most I got offered was €200 so I'll hold onto it. Go for a ps4, lots of games for that and it's a game system like WiiU.
@thaantman I doubt we'll ever see Marvel vs Capcom on Wii U or any other system at that. Capcom pulled everything related to the vs series from xbl&psn. I assume the company could no longer afford Disney's fee's for use of its characters.
@Bolt_Strike Funny enough, 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy's bold and creative gameplay styles are probably what killed off my interest in those games. Until Super Mario 3D World came out, I had a real distaste for 3D Mario, the prior 3D Mario games all felt very boring to me, and lacked the feel and charm of the 2D Mario games I had enjoyed.
I'd actually say that what Super Mario 3D World managed to achieve was far greater than prior 3D Mario games, as it managed to truly transition the wonderful 2D Mario game into a 3D environment. It managed to perfectly capture the feel of the original Mario games, and then went about with wonderful and charming levels that I loved going through.
To me, Super Mario 3D World was the best thing that could of happen to the Mario series (aside from making two amazing turn based RPG Paper based spin-off games), and outside of the two original Paper Mario games, stands as my favourite Mario game of all.
@Superryanworld I think most of us wouldn't mind that much if we got another Tatsunoko vs. Capcom instead.
@Samuel-Flutter Without knowing your tastes, I'm not sure what other games I'd recommend if you do want to purchase an Xbox One, but on a personal note I'd advise a purchase of Sunset Overdrive and Ori and the Blind Forest if you do ever pick up an Xbox One.
As for Rare Reply, I'm looking forward to getting it, though mostly because it has Jet Force Gemini included in it. That said, I'm interested in trying out a few of these games I've never played.
@Sean_Aaron
The reason is pretty obvious. Nintendo doesn't do market oversaturation, you'll get maybe one entry in a series per system; possibly two, whereas you can guarantee multiple franchise entries from publishers on other consoles as quickly as they can churn them out. How many Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo, Gears of War, Need for Speed games are out on PS360 right now?."
Plenty but I don't see how that affects anything. I don't like Animal Crossing or Smash Bros or COD or the majority of FPS in fact. I just don't buy them. Every machine ever is going to have lots of games an individual doesn't like. They don't make the games that individual wants less playable. Similarly I can understand getting bored of franchise overkill but just stop buying them. There being two other Zelda games on 3DS doesn't make A Link Between World's worse and Jak and Daxter didn't become any less sublime a platformer because they put out two different sequels.
"And yes, I'm fully aware of the gems from the PS2/GameCube era, but I've moved on since then and I don't feel the poorer for missing those. Another era of 3D gaming with a dual-stick joypad didn't have any draw for me and I had other priorities, what can I say?"
Fair enough. It just seems inconsistent to say you've purchased one system because of interesting quality titles but ignored others that have them, suggesting the don't.
"I also know there's more to the PS/360 than the three genres I named, but those are far and away the dominant ones and they are the most-promoted and biggest draws on the systems, you cannot deny that. If those kinds of games disappeared from those machines tomorrow I guarantee sales would crash through the floor."
I don't deny it but again don't see the relevance. Poor sales doesn't affect the existing Wii U library.
It seems you're reverse engineering a set of criteria to avoid saying "I like Nintendo and have shut myself off to what others offer" lest fanboy accusation follow. Don't be shy man, we're all friends here.
@readyletsgo
Fair enough. I just think they stopped because the machine stopped selling. Nintendo were very bad at getting behind it in the first few months too whether it be with quality releases, advertising or even explaining what the machine is. Add to that the time and cost accusations of a quirky architecture and low sales was always going to be a show stopper.
@electrolite77 Again my point is that what the others offer isn't that obvious and is a minority of what's there. I've said this before, I could probably find something to play on a Playstation or an Xbox, but there's nothing there that makes me want to own either platform just for that purpose and a casual glance at the catalogue doesn't inspire me. They're just not appealing systems and I'm definitely not the target market for either one of them.
@Grumblevolcano
I'd argue you are wrong.
Galaxy was something completely unique, where as Mario Maker simply allows you to make levels for the same 2-D games we have been playing since the late 1980's.
@SuperWiiU Tatsunoko vs Capcom is a great game. A re-release on the e-shope would be a day one purchace for me!
@Aromaiden Which is completely backwards, because innovating is pretty much a necessity to keep the game fun.
@IceClimbers What sets Sunshine apart from NSMB and 3D is that FLUDD is fully utilized in the gameplay and not just an occasional powerup used every so many levels. It's an entire league above the powerups you see now.
@Grumblevolcano I'm not sure it would be. It offers you a lot more freedom and creativity than most Mario games nowadays certainly, but it's not really putting forth any new ideas. It's just giving you new ways to use old ones.
@Souldin Do we really need both branches of Mario to feel the same though? Especially when the 2D Mario games are so painfully similar to each other already? It sort of defeats the purpose of having two different branches of the series if they both play the same. The last thing we need is for NSMB's rehashing to bleed into the 3D games, it makes the entire series feel like one indistinguishable blur. The older 3D games were much better at balancing a consistent gameplay identity with new elements that kept things fresh.
@Bolt_Strike Q) Do we really need both branches of Mario to feel the same though?
A) No, but I do not expect Super Mario 3D World to suddenly be the case for all future 3D Mario games. Super Mario 3D World exists more so as proof that the 2D formula of Mario can be transitioned into 3D, something they were probably unable to properly pull off when first making a 3D Mario game, and I doubt I'm the only one who was a fan of the 2D Mario games but was off put by how much the gameplay style changed when the series transitioned into 3D. The latter case can likely be applied to many franchises, and fans of those franchises.
The next 3D Mario will likely be of the type of gameplay that those who enjoyed 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy will be able to enjoy, but it was nice for me to be able to at long last be able to enjoy a 3D Mario game, and see that the elements that I loved about the Mario series when I played the 2D games could work in a 3D environment. By that nature alone, as a 3D Mario game with a style of gameplay differing greatly from that of it's other 3D console iterations, I feel it manages to stand out quite a bit from the other entries.
@electrolite77 The Resident Evil on rails shooters sold as well as Metroid Prime 3 did, but they were just rail shooters not full games that would build the series audience. Capcom Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition's control system was remarkable and they basically threw that away when they didn't bother making any main series entries for it and if the main series is elsewhere why would the audience even stick around on Wii for just spin-offs and ports? Activision was similar, as I said the Wii as the 2nd best selling platform for CoD 3 by a margin. What Acitivison did afterwards was release the much more heavily marketed CoD 4: Modern Warfare on PS3/360 and then gave the Wii a port two years later. Who'd want to be buy CoD 4:MW, a 2007 game for full price in 2009 the same year CoD: MW2 came out for other systems? Is it any surprise Nintendo went from having just over one third of the CoD audience(2006) to very little(2009) to almost none(2015) when the Wii had to wait two years for what was then the most hyped game in the series?
There was shovelware on the system not because the shovelware sells better but because it gave the best return on investment because these companies weren't advertising the Wii games they made, very few knew when these games would launch or if they even existed. Good games and shovelware would sell similarly(well except shovelware based on certain popular licenses and movies) except the shovelware would cost less to develop so would make more money.
What the third party situation turned into for the Wii was all a result of poor treatment of the system and exploitation userbase by third parties. Customers didn't just randomly stop buying the titles and they didn't just "not sell on Nintendo" until third parties gave Wii users the worst customer experience(and I don't mean graphics) of any system they supported. "Like our games? millions of you bought them in 2006 and 2007? well you'll get the sequels late on Wii after the hype has died down or you'll get an old version branded as new(FIFA) or we'll stop making them. Enjoy the avalanche of shovelware with one or two good games that you won't even realise launched or find on store shelves".
From the limited info that has been said/rumored of the NX I'm under the impression and coming to the conclusion that it is some sort of add-on device for the Wii U and from how it sounds the 3DS as well. All things point to how it will be cross compatible with said hardware so I believe it was developed to improve the over all experience of the existing hardware and Nintendo might be using it to entice 3rd parties to jump back on board. Being an add-on it can still be a new gaming platform just think of the N64DD or Sega's CD and 32x add-ons. Each were built to improve the experiences of existing gaming platforms while creating their own experiences seperate from the previous hardware. I'm almost sure that this is going to be something similar at this point.
@WarlockNem I hope not. Add-on support never went anywhere in the console market. I don't think the 32x or cd systems helped Sega at all. Then the Saturn launched and we all know how that went.
It would be a mistake to go the add-on route. Better to just start from scratch with a new console.
@Superryanworld I completely agree with you.
@Bolt_Strike @HollywoodHogan While you bring up good points, there is one key thing that's not being considered here and that's difficulty. Even in the 80s, Nintendo was against making parts of Mario games significantly difficult outside Japan. As you know Lost Levels skipped the west for many years because NoA felt it was too difficult for the west and while it eventually arrived with Super Mario All Stars, the purposely making games easy continued. Galaxy is just another 3D Mario game, a brilliant one but the innovation isn't with the game rather only the Wii Remote + Nunchuk. The only real way I can only consider Galaxy more innovative if you consider unofficial means of creating experiences that Super Mario Maker can which I'm not sure whether we're allowed to discuss on this site.
@Grumblevolcano Difficulty has little to do with creativity and I'm not sure why you're even bring it up in the first place.You can make a game as hard as you want, but if there aren't any new ideas being put forth, it doesn't matter.
And no, Galaxy's innovation isn't from the Wii Remote, in fact the Wii Remote's usage in the game is fairly gimmicky. What's innovative about it is the antigravity which allows for new types of level design.
@Bolt_Strike That isn't new though, people argue that Sonic Lost World is a Galaxy clone but infact Galaxy is a Sonic clone. Sure, the game never released (Sonic X-treme) but the ideas were out there
@Grumblevolcano The level design in Xtreme wasn't quite the same because you couldn't fully explore the planetoids, they were linear paths that wrapped around them.
Regardless though, they were new for Mario, and past Mario games have done nothing like them.
The upside is that even a company as slow to adapt and as set in its ways as Nintendo can't ignore the 3rd party failure AGAIN, can it? I absolutely have to think they'll fix it next time.
@arnoldlayne83 I watched the Youtube video you linked to, and whilst it makes some very interesting (and valid) points, it's still full of flawed logic. The guy presenting it says that Resident Evil sales have 'remained stable' since the series became more action orientated. Really? Take a look at the bar chart that flashes up on screen as he says that (and also what we already know)....Resident Evil 6 sold barely half of what Resi 5 sold, and is the lowest selling Resi game since Resi 3 (which is what caused them to shake the series up in the first place). And then the presenter laments the fact that Final Fantasy 13 sold more than Final Fantasy 3 & 6 combined....which is hardly surprising, given that there are a lot more gamers around the world than there were back then, and also up until Final Fantasy 7 the games weren't being released outside of Japan and the US.
Looking at gaming trends isn't always as simple as just comparing sales figures.
@Bolt_Strike Yeah the waggle in galaxy was kind of annoying and unnecessary. I still think Metroid Prime showed how great the Wiimote/Nunchuk control setup is for FPS style games and Okami was good as well except for a one or two brush techniques.
@MrGawain i quite agree
@JaxonH I always enjoy your responses. You're like one of the very few objective ones here. You see the beauty in the flaws and you don't downplay others. Surely you're an example to how some should conduct themselves with this "controversial" matter.
Anyway, agree and disagree with the OP. Sure it's f'ed up that 3rd party has turned it's back on Wii U. I mean REALLY jacked up. There are fans of the system that would enjoy those said games and play them in an environment where they don't have to deal with childish gamers who curses them instead of having fun. I get it! However, Nintendo can share some of that blame for not being aggressive enough and thinking they should just be entitled.
This subject keeps coming up from time to time and the results will always be the same. Unfortunately, Nintendo isn't in the position to just thinking they should automatically get these games. Time to negotiate.
@Rafie
At the end of the day, we're just people who enjoy playing games using a controller to interact with a displayed video signal.
Consoles arent perfect. None. All have appeal as long as you find games on that particular system you like playing.
I like the Wii U because every year I get roughly 8 good, solid, standout games to play on it (which averages to be one excellent game every month and a half). In addition to a good 25 amazing VC games and the occasional indie. That's why I like it. And it should be noted that at least 3 of those games every year are consistently top contenders for my fave games of all time list.
It's not a master-console that provides every game you'll ever want to play in your life. No console does that. Ya I'm missing tons of games on Wii U, just like I'm missing tons of games on PS4 and X1 and 3DS and Vita. Each system has a strong suit that it brings to the table, and I value each of those individually.
I love the Wii U for all it gives me, but it's not all I want. I love the PS4 for all it gives me, but it's not all I want. I love 3DS for all it gives me, but it's not all I want.
The fact is if you like playing video games and invest more than a casual amount of playtime every month, you're probably going to want to own 2 systems, maybe even more depending how much you play and how diverse your tastes are.
There's flaws with every system out there, I'm just too busy enjoying what these consoles DO provide to care much.
And maybe it's something where you have to own all platforms to understand this perspective. But I see most people so focused on what they're not getting that they never stop to appreciate what they are. As a true and dedicated gamer I commit myself to buy all platforms each generation so that I don't have to worry about coveting what I'm not getting. I can spend each and every minute of my gaming time appreciating what each console DOES offer. Which is as it should be.
@JaxonH My sentiments on how I feel about gaming today. Almost my exact feelings. Except I play everything extensively...well except the 3DS. Only because I no longer have one. I do plan on getting the new 3DS. I LOVE games. That includes every single one of my consoles. I even revisit my Dreamcast from time to time! Good stuff ol friend!
The Wii U was in a tough spot to begin with. I'm honestly not sure what Nintendo or third party companies could have done. I think both parties made mistakes that on the surface makes the Wii U look like a commercial failure.
For Nintendo's part, they did a horrible job of marketing the system. Calling it the Wii U was not smart. They would only show the gamepad when discussing it. They truly made it look like an add on.
Third parties were hesitant to jump on board. I'm sure a lot felt the system was going to be underpowered knowing what Microsoft and Sony were working on. As with the DS, I'm sure a lot of the companies weren't sure how they might use the second screen.
All of this coupled with the fact that some of the more core gamers were burned time and time again by shovelware on the Wii created a perfect storm of bad publicity. Gamers aren't completely off the hook. They did fail to purchase some great third party Wii title, Zack and Wiki.
Wii U will unfortunately go down in most people's eyes as a failure. However, think about the typical number of titles the average person has for a system. The Wii U has a solid library to keep most people busy. The long tail on games like Super Smash Bros. and Splatoon should get us to the NX. Not to mention, Zelda is still to come.
I'm satisfied with the Wii U. Would I like to see some of the third parties put some of these next gen games? I guess. Really, I'm a. Nintendo guy first and foremost. They have the properties I enjoy, and at the end of the day, that's enough for me.
@JaxonH
Great post. I should have read before I posted. I wouldn't have went as long. You nailed it.
@Rafie
My sentiments exactly!
@Dr_Lugae (referencing post #107)
I see your point with Nintendo needing to drop support for 1st party and advertising 3rd party specials and DLC exclusives, it actually made me stop to post although I wasnt planning to any more.
The biggest problem with Nintendo having that concept is that gaming is all that Nintendo is. 1st party doesnt sell on Xbox? Microsoft still has PC. 1st party doesnt sell on PS? Sony still has movies, physical devices, Blu Ray...
Nintendo has... games. That is all. It isnt like Nintendo can afford to survive on only console sales. They still have workers to pay and corporate Board Members to feed.
I dont feel as though you disagree either. I just wanted to say that. I dont see Nintendo surviving as 3rd Party. I just dont. But I also dont see Nintendo able to survive without their 1st Party lineup.
@Aromaiden - Splatoon says hello.
@JaxonH
"But I see most people so focused on what they're not getting that they never stop to appreciate what they are."
Never a truer word spoken. So many people like to concentrate on the negatives, one on site in particular.
@JaxonH
"As a true and dedicated gamer I commit myself to buy all platforms each generation so that I don't have to worry about coveting what I'm not getting."
Agree with this. I don't understand shutting yourself off from games unless of course you can't afford it. I currently have GC, Wii, Xbox, low end gaming laptop (for strategy games), Vita, 3DS, Wikipad (for portable emulation), PS3, Wii U and PS4. I also have a full time shift work job, a wife and a 1-year-old so gaming time is limited. Yet....each time we're out shopping I find myself looking covetously at the XB1. When my wife asked me why I couldn't really explain beyond its a games machine....So I want one.
@JaxonH Not everyone gets the luxury of buying every console out there. Even when I could do otherwise, I generally invested in a single console at a time because ultimately what happened was one console got attention at the cost of another.
I do agree people focus too much on what they do not get. These days the only time I get upset is when there was intentional misinformation given for a game, like in the case of Project: Cars. I don't think I would have be as irritated had the developer just been upfront and open about the issues from the start instead of pretending everything was wonderful until the last minute.
I do think the fate of the console is a matter of both Nintendo and third parties. I think Nintendo poorly designed the console. There is not enough internal storage on it, and that alone is a factor for third parties (it is even an issue for Nintendo produced games like Xenoblade Chronicles X). That hurt the ability of Third Parties to bring their content to the console.
I also think that too many of the Third Parties out there are fixated on the blockbuster method of game production. I think they get so focused on graphics that sometimes story, and gameplay can suffer. I think they also can get so focused on trying to do everything in their game that they overreach and the quality suffers, resulting in a 'beta' (as I remember PC betas) version of the game shipping only to get 'fixed' by a giant patch.
All of that to say, there isn't a single reason for the failure. It is a combination of factors. Just like it wasn't a single thing that killed the Dreamcast or any other good console that just didn't sell to the audience.
Actually Nintendo owns Monolith Soft so Xenoblade Chronicles X is 1st party title not 3rd party.
@CTs_Lieutenant What I'm referring to is innovation done to a current franchise not a new one. Since Splatoon is a new IP it's a completely different story than an already developed franchise like Mario.
The title of this article is pure, ignorant, fanboy hyperbole, and that is what makes this site so bloody hard to read all too frequently.
Let's all be blind, crybaby fanboys and blame the 3rd parties for "failures" on a system where they were given almost no chance to succeed.
First off, Nintendo did not build a positive or powerful platform for them to use. They delivered an Xbox 360 with extra RAM, 7 years after the Xbox 360 launched, with a controller most people revile. The Wii U cannot handle modern engines like Unreal 4 (contrary to what this site foolishly claimed previously, Wii U can and has used Unreal 3). Adding to this, developers would have to do extra work to port a game from XBO/PS4 to the Wii U, in a desperate bid to appeal to a far smaller audience which, once again, has a fanbase with a clear history of not supporting 3rd party games, totally regardless of quality.
There are three levels of blame to the problems of third party support on Nintendo's consoles:
1. Nintendo - Way out in front, the biggest hurdle to third parties finding success. Gimmicky features and controllers and limited technology under the hood only further burden this.
2. Nintendo fans - This is a fanbase that not only has a history of not supporting 3rd party games, but is also frequently adversarial and hostiel towards third parties just because they're third parties. Hell, the very title of this article is evidence to this point, third parties are blamed right off the bat with no logic or reality applied.
3. Third parties - At a distant third, these companies sometimes make decisions that affect their games on Nintendo systems. First off, they want and need a platform with sales. Secondly, they want and need a platform with sufficient power. Thirdly, they want and need a platform with a fanbase that supports them. All of these are against them on the Wii U, so it becomes an anxious guessing game of trying to figure out what Nintendo fans will actually buy, which is usually anything with Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon on the cover and little else.
Again, this is a group of fans, many of whom call anything 3rd party "low quality crap" and magically assume everything from Nintendo is amazing and nearly perfect, despite several years where Nintendo was not the top scoring publisher in the world (check annual Metacritic Top Publisher lists), and was frequently topped by third party companies, like EA, 2K, and I believe once, Ubisoft. Last year Nintendo came out on top. That was the first time they did so.
There is something else to consider here as well, and that is the 3DS, which despite sales of the hardware being past 50 million (though still well below the GBA), third parties have also walked away from there, by and large. This ultimately highlights that the biggest problems for third parties on Nintendo systems is Nintendo and the fans who only buy a few select titles. Because when even a platform with 50 million in hardware sales is falling so far behind in 3rd party support, the problems are far bigger than a pathetic fanboy rant of "all third parties are bad."
@Quorthon Hi Quorthon. How's it going, I was wondering when you were going to show. Although I think you're a bit late to the party .
@Squiggle55 I would not hold out any hope. The issue with third-party support has been going on since the Nintendo 64, and each time, Nintendo promises that they will fix it, and then by the middle of the next generation, their console is in the middle of a drought.
In general, the cycle will keep going. Nintendo will show off a new console and a bunch of major third-party games will be out at launch as third-party publishers test the waters. For the first year, the new Nintendo console will get decent third-party support, until eventually, third parties realize Nintendo's console has no potential and they leave for the greener pastures of the PC, Playstation, and Xbox.
Now, to be fair, the Gamecube kinda broke the trend by getting decent third-party support over its lifespan. But it still paled in comparison to what the PS2 and even Xbox were getting.
As for the Wii, I'm sure someone is going to point out the Wii's great number of third-party games. Which sounds great on paper until you realize most of the third-party titles on the Wii U were garbage mini game collections, or cheap knockoffs of Wii Sports or Wii Fit.
Every popular system has its share of bad games, but the Wii had the worst garbage game to good game ratio of any popular system ever made. Let me put it this way, for every Mario Galaxy, there were about three or four crap games like Gingerbread Ninja or M & Ms racing.
I just got a Wii U a couple weeks ago and I am loving it. I can't wait for Star Fox Zero and have a long list of games I still need to buy for it. I never had a Wii, so now I can collect for that, too. The Wii U, combined with my 360 and PS2 slim, which I have a big library of games for, should keep me occupied for LONG time.
I don't think Nintendo needs third-party support.
Why did the Wii U fail? Because Nintendo themselves never fully backed it. They never marketed or promoted it. It was underpowered to begin with, but they could have masked it's technical shortcomings with a bevy of awesome games. Instead, they botched the launch with few must-have titles and a bunch of ports. Nintendo didn't rebound with killer apps until 2014, a year and a half after launch when most of the damage was done. Huge, system selling, well-loved, fan-service franchises, like F-Zero, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, etc, are nowhere to be found and no news regarding their development has been released. Other franchises could have made a nice home for the Wii U using the gamepad, like Trauma Center, Brain Age, and a new Pokemon Snap. Oh, and where are the RPGs? Where's Fire Emblem?
Maybe I'm naive, but I think Nintendo is doing the exact wrong thing by abandoning the Wii U right now. They should sack up, double down, and expand support for the Wii U. There should be a Metroid game. There should be an F-Zero game. There should be another Mario game. They should resurrect a long derelict franchise or two.
How will the NX be any different? That's my question. Will they actually market it and communicate what it is to potential buyers? Will Nintendo release any must-have games for it at launch? Will Nintendo drop support for NX if it doesn't sell 20 million units in it's first year?
IMO, the NX shouldn't be released any earlier than Holiday 2017, maybe mid-2018 if that's how long it takes to get a good launch lineup. Much of the gaming market is already saturated with PS4, XBone and Wii U. Considering the rumors regarding it's tech specs, I doubt third parties are going to do an about-face and support NX. Iwata was right that they need to make Wii U owners happy.
I'm one of those Nintendo fans who buys almost all Nintendo first-party games. Frankly, I just don't have enough money to buy or time to play much else. I can't buy every game that deserves to be played, so I need to set priorities. Because Nintendo's track record is so excellent, and their games are so consistently fun, I go with them unless there is some particularly compelling reason to try something else. You can blame me for the Wii U's failure if you want, but I own one, and I own a lot of games for it, so that seems like an odd thing to do.
But I do own some non-Nintendo games for Wii U: Monster Hunter 3U (Got it on sale because I enjoyed the 3DS version), ACIII (I like American Revolution stuff, and got it on sale, ended up finding the game kind of dull), Child of Light (beautiful and unique RPG), and some Indie titles (Guacamelee, EDGE, Runner2, and Blok Drop U) that I got on sale and have thoroughly enjoyed.
Just saying that third parties need to compel me to redirect my money from Nintendo, because for the most part, Nintendo's titles are excellent. The article discusses how bad the port scene was, and how little (and late) third parties have offered for us. Give us real, interesting titles, and we will buy them. Just ask the indie developers.
Also, forgot to mention Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2, and Wonderful 101. Nintendo-published, but somewhere between second and third-party games. Again, bought them because they were well-reviewed and unique experiences.
@Quorthon This is ridiculous. Nintendo fans are Nintendo fans because they like Nintendo games. You are arguing that they should like something else because it would be better for Nintendo, which is nonsense because the whole reason we care about what's good for Nintendo is because we like their games. It's like a snake eating its own tail.
We don't all have giant wads of cash to blow on games, so we buy what we like, and Nintendo is a safe bet to be good-to-excellent. Not all third party games are bad, but look at the article's list of late or shoddy ports, or outright teasing games then canceling them. Or, in the case of EA, pretty much pulling all support whatsoever from the system. How can I be blamed for not buying yet another iteration of Madden when EA WON'T EVEN MAKE ONE FOR ME TO BUY? Yes, Nintendo screwed up at the outset, but third parties barely dipped their toenails in the water before screaming it was too cold and running for safer pastures.
If Nintendo fans are such terrible gaming hermits, then why has the indie scene been so successful on Wii U/3DS (and to an extent on WiiWare before that)? Because they are producing interesting titles or making an effort at good ports. Third parties want to just make one game, release if for three platforms, and watch the bankroll grow, and the indies have shown that you can port, but you have to do at least a little work.
Bayonetta 2 is one of my favorite games on Wii U. I never thought we'd get a sequel.
To me, and not necessarily "exactly", but Nintendo has been stuck in this "unique, but good enough" rut since the N64 with it's consoles. I fully agree we've had tons of gems across ALL of these systems, but Nintendo in each generation has had goofs as well as brilliance (N64 cartridges instead of discs driving up dev cost, but we got faster load times, true 3D, and a unique interface; Gamecube proprietary discs, extremely small storage, and poorly pushed online, but we received another very unique interface; Wii with storage issues, cumbersome download service, and not powerful enough, but a great new interface that changes gaming; Wii U with still storage issues and still not a powerful enough system, but a gamepad interface that is incredibly versatile as a controller and general interface). I'll rep Nintendo til I'm a gamer no more, in good and in bad, but truth is truth. Nintendo is good enough, and smart enough to compete with it's rivals, but I feel Nintendo should try to find the middle of unique vs competitive, where they can be the big N we all know and love, but battle their rivals on even ground. Nintendo only has themselves to blame for poor marketing, less than up to modern standards hardware, and losing out on 3rd party support-- the main cause of the Wii U's failure to move units. Nintendo bought a pass with the Wii, but sooner or later, as the Wii U has shown, Nintendo is going to have to produce a system that is as powerful as it is unique.
@Quorthon Your post was straight up garbage. According to Eurogamer ( a pretty basis site against Nintendo) said the Wii U is between 2x to 3x powerful to a Xbox 360. I'm sorry you are mad that costumers didn't buy the games that was developers' rehash trash.
I agree with your closing, Nintendo owners who have just the WiiU have to at this point know what to expect, total isolation from the third party world, and it's something you must accept.
I accepted it early this year when all I saw I'd still play with was Starfox and made the tough decision to sell my stuff off, and thankfully it was before all the doom and glooming of this year since so I got most my money back. I felt bad doing it, but I need variety, not to keep spoon feeding Nintendo money so they think it's ok to operate a console like they have. At least there's still the 3DS.
Ugh can't update post. I see a lot of bitter responses to Quorthon, but if you step back and actually look at the sales data of third party titles, NIntendo's decisions with how to limit the WiiU to stay on a MSRP budget, and notably how fans by in large tend to react to third party companies (somewhat fairly though with a decade of shady behavior to back it) he's fairly well on the nose. I know it's not popular to say the stuff he did on a Nintendo fan site, but acceptance is the first step to recovery. I'm not writing off Nintendo, but twice burned on consoles I'm not buying their next until I can see it is supported well and won't look like a dry well within a year other than more first party stuff as that's not enough. I don't like keeping more than one console a generation and Nintendo has forced the need for awhile now.
I consider myself one of the lucky ones who didn't buy a wii U at launch so I avoided all the disappointment that came from seeing how third parties flattered to deceive. I bought mine early last year amidst the media doom and gloom and "fusion" rumours because dang it that windwaker console bundle was irresistable. By that point I had seen the wii U at it's lowest ebb but could also see what was on the horizon and games like 3D world, MK8, SSB, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, etc had me more interested than what PS4 and Xbone had to offer. It didn't hurt that at that stage of the game a lot of those third party ports were being cleared out at knockdown prices so I was able to determine which ones were worth my time and which ones were complete garbage. So with them I was able to bulk up my wii U library cheaply and quickly as I waited for the real games to arrive. Even the sparseness of the release of big titles wasn't an issue for me because I work and don't have as much time to play games as I used to so it's not like I'm going to finish most games over the course of a weekend. In fact atm my biggest problem isn't enough games it's more a matter of having too many games and not enough time to finish them all lol.
And then there's the issue of collectability that this article hasn't even touched on. Because of it's small user base, niche appeal and under appreciation (from the broader community) during it's lifetime the wii U has a lot of collectable potential that may be fully realised in 10 to 20 years time. Which is why I personally think that it's worth getting as many limited editions of sought after titles now before they go up in price once they're out of print - particularly if the word Zelda is in it. That Wind Waker HD game bundle is a case in point It's only been out of print for a year or so and on the second hand market it's value has already doubled, one can only guess what the asking price for a mint copy will be in ten years time.
TL;dr For me the wii U has been a great investment, haters be damned.
I wanted to splice this into my previous comment but couldn't so please forgive the double post.
One of the comments I read here was a lack of focus from Nintendo on the wii U. To an extent I kind of agree with this. the problems stemming from having two completely separate development environments for portable console and home console seems to have come back to bite Nintendo. Which is why I strongly believe that with NX they will merge home and portable console into a shared space. How else could they leverage the strengths of their portable console business into their home console business? When it comes to a big install base, third party support the 3DS trumps the wii U. If as some believe the NX is a unified platform capable of playing games on the go or on a big screen at home then in theory Nintendo would have more money to spend on hardware development and marketing as it would be two for the price of one and all of their game development resources could go toward one system rather than two. Of course this is assuming the talk of NX being a third pillar doesn't mean that there'd be a long period of overlap where they're supporting 3 systems simultaneously which I imagine would strain their internal development resources unless easy porting is possible between say NX to wii U.
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