In this short interview Nintendo Life features contributor Alan Lopez caught up with David D'Angelo of Yacht Club Games, who spoke on behalf of the entire Shovel Knight creative team.
Shovel Knight is a download-only 8-bit platformer. Alone, these qualifiers hardly separate it from many games in the indie game stratosphere, good or bad. Yet Yacht Club Games' creation has held up to become one of the most endearing downloadable titles in recent history. We caught up with the team at Yacht Club Games on the eve of their new DLC release "Shovel Knight: Plague of Shadows", to discuss how they managed to separate their game from all the competition, what it's like to develop in retrograde, and what they have up their sleeves next.
Recently going back to my file of Shovel Knight, the novelty of playing a retro-styled game really has taken a back seat to a gameplay experience that ultimately feels all its own. How did the team split the difference between homage and parody? Was it conscious at all?
We actually avoided parody at all costs! We wanted the game to be inspired by game designs, stories, art, etc from the NES era, but we wanted the game to live as something that could have been created in that era. To be something that could stand on its own, it meant Shovel Knight had to be devoid of references and parody. We wanted any person who picked up Shovel Knight to be able to enjoy every aspect of it, even if they had never touched an NES game before.
Would you attribute any of Shovel Knight's success to, perhaps, superior elaboration on what made the 8-bit generation so compelling?
I definitely think Shovel Knight's success is due to the brilliant designs of the 8-bit generation. Those games were fun, impacting, emotional, joyous, and much more. A lot of the feelings and enjoyment found in those game designs have been lost in today's age. I think having those elements be present again brought back great memories to a lot of people who experienced those games. And those who didn't play 8-bit games, Shovel Knight introduced that 8-bit gameplay in a way that was more approachable than booting up an NES game.
What comes first – level design or art design?
Whatever idea we can get on paper the fastest! Typically we lead by game design, but some times a brilliant art idea starts it off! Or we'll concept art ideas to try to establish gameplay possibilities.
As a child, I was always bemused at some of the grand artwork featured inside of my NES instruction booklets, only to see the actual characters in the games sometimes appeared so fleeting in comparison. To the team members who draw that beautiful artwork: What's it like seeing your fully realized drawings turned into blocky 8-bit caricatures? Does it ever happen the other way around?
It's a tough process! Typically, we actually do the process both ways. First we create a concept that is then turned into an 8 bit drawing. From the 8-bit sprite, the fully realized, final illustration is created. Squeezing a fully fleshed out illustration into a pixel model is a long, arduous process. We do it knowing some elements and magic will be lost in the process. But in other ways, the 8-bit sprites can bring out or emphasize parts of the illustration that overall make the concept much better.
From a group of developers making an indie game to a downloadable title winning national, end-of-year awards: When did you realize Shovel Knight really had "made it"?
Still haven't realized it! Ha! It's pretty tough to grasp just how many people have played and enjoyed this game. It's truly overwhelming, and we feel lucky every day that people have found so much fun in the game.
When can we expect Plague of Shadows?
We haven't figured out a date yet, but we're working every day to make it as soon as possible!
Yacht team members have written about their experience "breaking" the NES architecture to implement, in some cases, very subtle improvements. Is anyone on the team up on their architecture for, say, the Super Nintendo?
Oh definitely! Wouldn't something like Super Shovel Knight be incredible! We'd love to take the franchise through the ages. It'd be amazing to make Shovel Knight 64!
Our thanks for David D'Angelo and the team's time.
Comments 64
Playable Plague Knight makes me happy.
Shovel Knight 64 could be amazing but I wonder what form it would take?
I can actually imagine Super Shovel Knight pretty well - the overall design is easily expandable, and SNES 16-bit style would likely work in a similar fashion to MegaMan X, with higher emphasis on new elements that flow right into the classic gameplay.
But a 64 game? Would that include terrible controls, or play a bit more like PS1 games?
Shovel Knight 64 MUST be a 3D Platforming Collect-em-all game. I'd like it to have a Super Mario 64 vibe to it.
Super Shovel Knight would be awesome! Shovel Knight 64, however...well, not all games make the transition to 3D very easily, so who knows, really?
I'd love to see another NES-style Shovel Knight game.
An SNES-style Shovel Knight game could be great too.
There is absolutely no way I'd buy Shovel Knight 64. Ugh.
@Kaze_Memaryu The PS1 and N64 had good 3D platform games that controlled well, like Banjo-Kazooie and Spyro, respectively, granted I haven't played the latter in years.
Moving on, I'd love any sequel to Shovel Knight, but a Super Shovel Knight with 4 added buttons (L,R,X,Y) could add new gameplay mechanics!
I'd love to see Shovel Knight 64, personally, no-one ever uses those lovable, jagged polygonal graphics anymore .
I thought that all of the Bosses would have there own Stories due too the KS Campaign becoming completely funded?
I REALLY wanted too play as Treasure Knight & the one with the Snow Shovel. :/
(I forgot his Name, sorry.) >_<
It's hilarious how NES and SNES retro games are considered sentimental and wonderfully simplistic, but N64 retro... >_> Is it because 3D is too many degrees close to modern, yet we know how bad the polygons were?
@Haiassai For me it's because I never liked the N64.
@Krambo42 Was it that era or the N64 as a whole? And just out of curiousity, be it era or console, what did you not like about it? [This isn't limited to just Krambo, guise ]
@Haiassai I actually want to jump in and say that to a lesser extent than Wii Sports, Super Mario 64 was the ultimate expression of an idea that was never surpassed upon release.
I say to a lesser extent, because there were actually quite a few N64 platformers that I count among my all time favorite pieces of media, let alone games. But making a 3D platformer is just really hard. If Yacht Club has it in them to tackle that design quandary, I would play a "Shovel Knight 64" game like my life depended on it.
Would much rather see a Super Shovel Knight or a 32-bit GBA-style game than a 64 version. N64 games haven't exactly aged beautifully, and I don't know if Shovel Knight would make the transition to 3D all that well either.
@Haiassai I think old 2D games usually are more timeless than 3D ones, because of abstraction. With 3D games, the race for the most realistic graphics started for real, so often an old 3D game will invite comparison with a newer, and better looking one, and thus look bad. A finely crafted, low-res 2D game will always look impressive. At least to those who can appreciate it.
@Haiassai Let me put it this way...the only games from that era that I like are Ocarina of Time and Shadows of the Emipre (though I do love both, and they are both in my top 10). I don't know...when the N64 came out, I just wasn't into it at all. Everybody was so impressed by the fact that everything was in 3D, but I just hated the look of the games (people now say the games haven't aged well...I say they never looked good)...and I hated the gameplay even more. I never liked how Mario went from perfect platforming to a boring collectathon. Banjo Kazooie is more of the same. I never thought that Mario Kart 64 or Star Fox 64 were as much fun as the SNES games. Kirby 64 and Donkey Kong 64 were both super boring. I've never liked FPSes so neither GoldenEye nor Perfect Dark did anything for me. I could go on. I did have some fun with a few multiplayer games (the WWF/WCW games, the All Star Baseball games, NFL Blitz, etc.), but more because they were multiplayer games than games that I actually loved. I just never thought that the games looked or felt as good as NES or SNES games. Ocarina of Time is SO good, though, that I can't deny its greatness...and the Star Wars fan in me just can't get enough of Shadows of the Empire. Most fun I've ever had with a Star Wars game (even more so than the Super Star Wars games, which I love). Other than those, two, though...bah.
My favorite games are still 2D platformers. My favorite Wii games were NSMBWii, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Donkey Kong Country Returns and Wario Land: Shake It. My favorite Wii U games are Shovel Knight, Tropical Freeze and NSMBU (along with Mario Kart 8). I just think that 2D games are more fun. But man, N64 games were ugly, had horrible cameras, were boring and had bad controls to boot.
Ugh, I'm just not a fan. I'd absolutely hate to see Shovel Knight turned into an ugly collectathon or something like that. Give me Mega Man/Castlevania-style gameplay over that any day.
@Pandaman Fair enough. I forget that we're this would have to be a 3D platformer, which you're right: few games have surpassed Mario 64s finesse. Granted, if Yacht Games was aiming to capture the feel of the greatest NES games [platformers being many of the greats]. then do you think they'd move away from the platforming genre if they made Shovel Knight 64? If so, would that change any impression/thoughts on Shovel Knight 64?
@hiptanaka I totally get you. Though, Yacht Clubs made exceptions with Shovel Knight, as far as being loyal to the NES limitations (e.g.: having a wider color palette than the NES actually had). That means that they'd try to focus on SOMETHING that made the N64 sentimental for us that's separate from modern gaming [if there is anything... have any thoughts what that might be if at all? ]
So many people not wanting an N64 version. The core game would be designed around the best specs that games had then, cartridge size, memory expansion, 64DD and any other specialty add on from japan that is useful for them. But, the game we would get would look better because it would be at a higher resolution than the original N64 spec. Basically think about playing OoT in an emulator at 1080p. The geometry is no different, but the rendered resolution makes things look great (except for blurry textures).
As for what it would be like, a mix of Zelda and Banjo seems like it would be a good fit.
I would love Shovel Knight 64!! It should be designed similarly to Maximo: Ghosts to Glory (originally an N64 game), the 3D version of Ghosts & Goblins.
@Haiassai There are probably many things that could be done from a gameplay perspective to make it feel like an N64 game. I'm not an expert on those games, because I didn't own an N64, but for example, I think few if any modern games are quite like Mario 64 in structure and level design.
Visually, maybe they'd do best to "glorify" the N64 graphics, kinda like they already did with Shovel Knight and NES. Maybe use a low poly style and similar usage of color and lighting, but use less blurry textures of more consistent resolution. I'm not sure. A bigger N64 enthusiast than me might know better.
Is it weird that I have no interest in 2D Shovel Knight, but 3D sounds fun?
Like the characters, settings, and combat would be more appealing.
@Kaze_Memaryu Despite the worthless dig, one could say excellent control like the N64.
It's personal preference at the end of the day - I can still pick up an N64 controller and play with ease. Super Mario 64 et all control sublimely combining tight accuracy and sense of freedom with an N64 controller.
The 3D controller set the standard in 1996. Many gamers believe the dual shock 1 to 3 are too loose and inaccurate. Personal choice.
Shovel Knight 64 could work really well if they did it in a Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time style with those jagged polygons I so lovingly remember from that era. They have even put both of those games on the DS/3DS libraries respectively so they could make it on both WiiU and on 3DS.
@Krambo42 You clearly never played an N64 in that era, if you did you were certainly in the minority in terms of opinion. No offence most of thr 2D games you prefer are boring by today's standards too.
I moved from NES to Sega Megadrive to PS1/N64. I own the majority of those titles and can't disagree more with you. My friends and I were mesmerised by each one of them. I can still pick up an N64 game with ease. Super Mario 64, Goldeneye were absolutely breathtaking on release - so much so GoldenEye won 100s of accolades across the world. You don't seem to realize that large sandbox world's were the holy grail in the mid to late 90s.
I call your bluff - emulator troll - you like many others here never played the real console or games in the 90s era. That or else don't blame the games for your low level of skill.
I actually wouldnt mind them doing another 8-bit sequel before the jump to a 16-bit style. As much as I love the SNES, there's something incredibly nostalgic about playing a great NES style game made as perfectly as SK was.
Seeing as Shovel Knight was one of the best downloadable only games I have ever played, a sequel in any form is certainly on my radar. I typically don't enjoy most NES games aside from Nintendo made ones, but this game was dang near perfect!
@sketchturner Maximo is a highly underrated game. One of the best 3D platformers that no one ever played.
I'm for a Shovel Knight 64 as long as it doesn't keep the sub-30fps gameplay and fog from the system.
But first I'd want a Super Shovel Knight.
I'd prefer shovel knight 64 over super shovel knight.
We are in a major 3D platformer drought.The only decent ones are lego and mario and occasionally sonic and pac-man.most indie's go 2D retro and the 3D indie games never get finished.I miss 3D platformers like we had in the 5th and 6th gen.
@TechJunkie69 - I think a Zelda style 64 game would be best suited for it but there are so many different directions they could take.
Hopefully if they decide to do it, it is every bit as great as the original
@liveswired I absolutely played N64 when it came out. I don't need to defend myself any more than that. I like what I like.
@Krambo42 I don't blame you — i rarely played 3D platformers.
But i wonder: would Yacht Game Club make a platformer as a sequel, or fit the genre of the console they're paying homage to?
If done right it would be an amazing cross with SM64 and LoZ:OoT. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, just like I didn't to buy the existing game.
@SparkOfSpirit I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates Maximo! Absolutely a phenomenal game. Easily one of my top 3 games on PS2. It's super hard, but it is mostly fair (no cheap deaths), meaning it can be mastered with enough practice.
Shovel Knight is a very good game. Being a 90's kid, just the thought of a new game with 64 in the title makes me just a little excited. I hope to see it happen.
Shovel Knight 64 looks cool. Though, if it were me, i'd combine it with the best of both worlds of then 5th gen: The video and sound quality of the Sega Saturn or PS1, and the graphics of the N64. minus the fog
Though honestly, if they want to go retro, i'd rather them go for early to mid 00s style graphics instead.
For Shovel Knight 64, they could still stick with a 2.5D game like the Kirby games.
I want them to do something new but I'd be more than happy if then they make Super Shovel Knight. Sounds pretty great.
Super Shovel Knight would be awesome!
How about Shovel Knight Advance with 32 bit colors and GBA sound?
Showel Knight 64? Yes please, in a 3D-action platformer form.
@TossedLlama Well, I would hope for it to play like the N64-Castlevanias. They were amazing games and well liked back in the days. Too bad the AVGN can change all that with some blatant lies about a game and half the internet jumping up on the wagon.
Can we please have Shovel Knight in Japan now please??
I really hope they don't skip the 16bit era and go straight to the 64bit because I think it would be a shame if we never got to see a version of the game realised in full colour sprite based glory.
Just imagine how every little visual element could look with enough colours to match as closely as possible to the original art, be it the sprites themselves or all the story images etc, but still with that timeless charm of the classic pixel sprite style...
They could even go a bit further and maybe up to the level of a game like Yoshi's Island which has some stunning transparency effects, great use of rotation and scaling (both sprites and backgrounds) and even some appropriate implementation of simple polygon objects where it made sense.
I know I'd certainly love to see a Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island level of visual quality in a Shovel Knight game.
@Kirk
"Oh definitely! Wouldn't something like Super Shovel Knight be incredible! We'd love to take the franchise through the ages. It'd be amazing to make Shovel Knight 64!"
Super Shovel Knight = 16bit
I want Shovel Knight 64 right now! Haha
@outburst Yeah I know but I also saw another recent interview where he was saying something along the lines of "There's not much value in doing 16bit because there's not as much effort to reward ratio for all the extra work that goes into making the 16bit graphics. It doesn't really add anything significant to the experience because everything else remains largely the same..." or something along those lines.
@Kirk
Oh, okay. I thought you've missed the line. Sorry.
@outburst No probs
Super Shovel Knight! Make that happen!
@Kirk
If it's true then he is contradicting his statements then.
@TossedLlama amen.
@TossedLlama for some reason - if it sort of did - but was actually good - that would be a treat
Hey hey! SNES Shovel Knight should come before Shovel Knight 64!!! 😁
I've already bought Super Shovel Knight and Shovel Knight 64...
Even though they're talking about Shovel Knight 64 they could just as easily go the Symphony of the Knight route.... though that gameplay style has been flogged incessantly since the Playstation era.
@TossedLlama oh man.... Glad you said this because I so agree
@Krambo42 That's fair; the N64 was a very transitional system. We went from the 2D SNES era to this bizarre 64-bit polygon 3D world. A lot of games didn't handle it well; the camera angles were wonky, the textures all looked like mud, and they all seemed to turn out to be collectathons.
The reason OoT is so good is because it really redefined how these games played, and games have been following suit ever since.
@SwaveSays Yep, exactly. I could never get into the new games that looked and played worse than NES and SNES games. As I said in an earlier post, I'm still not crazy about most 3D games, but at least they look and play better than they used to. There was just nothing about N64 games that made me think "this is an improvement".
@Krambo42 While I still enjoy Banjo-Kazooie and a lot of the other games from the N64 days, they feel awkward to play now. The constant camera shifting makes me think, "How did this not irritate me as a kid?"
@SparkOfSpirit
No doubt Maximo was dope.
And seeing how Shovel Knight isn't a "true" 8-bit game I imagine they (Yacht Club) could just as easily make a Shovel Knight 64 game be just as entertaining as the best 3d platformers.
One of my favorite aspects of Shovel Knight was the lore. Or rather, the implied lore. Shield Knight's relation to Shovel Knight, the falling out between SK and the Order of No Quarter, and The Wandering Travelers could have a whole game to themselves. There's some rich mythos there, and plenty to expand upon. I can see Shovel Knight turning into a healthy franchise.
Shovel Knight 64 would be great if made like Mario 64 or something like it, with an exploreable overworld that contains levels within it.
If Shovel Knight 64 was a thing, it'd probably look more like Paper Mario or Mischief Makers than Mario 64 or Banjo Kazooie.
Super Shovel Knight would be amazing too but not nearly as interesting to ponder about.
Shovel Knight 64...
ALL OF MY YES.
Shovel Knight is an game that is full of slowdowns and could have used less processing power if they have actually USED SMALLER SPRITE SIZES.
Also their is an "Shovel Knight" type game on the N64 already.
Personally this game makes me think back to the "Shovel Game from Zelda SNES" and the almighty "Shovel" from "Chrono Trigger".
I really do enjoy digging up stuff, and the EXP points animations I haven't seen since "Zelda II".
Otherwise the story is sooooo damn childish and is lacking any point at all. The best thing about this game is probably the village and A.I. of the Knights.
Which reminds of FFXII where you have the various Knights ( Vadors ) of the game you have to combat.
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