The New Nintendo 3DS arrives this week, which is exciting news for eager portable games for a number of reasons. It's very much 3DS version 1.5, so the upgrade is down to the accumulation of a variety of relatively small improvements as opposed to a generational leap. It's standard Nintendo practice to release an updated iteration of portable hardware in the latter half of a generation's lifespan, after all, so it's hardly a surprising progression..
What does help distinguish the New models from previous revisions and upgrades - even the DSi in the last generation - is the degree to which it brings Nintendo's home console and portable lines closer together. There are technological reasons behind the fact that the New 3DS and Wii U are still miles apart, but its very concept shows that Nintendo's got an eye on increasing integration between its systems, and it's perhaps a pointer towards what could come in future hardware generations.
First of all, the key functionality and control inputs of the New Nintendo 3DS bring it largely in line with the Wii U and GamePad. The C-Stick brings a degree of second analogue control, albeit of a different nature from a standard Circle Pad or analogue stick. We also have extra shoulder buttons to bring the full contingent of buttons - even if they're hardly used at this stage - and also NFC. The ability to scan amiibo on the touch screen gives that range a load of new possibilities and compatible games, and it's not hard to see the identical logo design for amiibo and the New 3DS hardware.
The quicker CPU plays its part, too - it speeds up the general interface and downloads from the eShop, improves performance in a small number of titles, and no doubt keeps busy running the face-tracking stable 3D effect. It's also, lest we forget, made one New Nintendo 3DS exclusive possible to date - Xenoblade Chronicles 3D. A huge RPG that proved popular on Wii and arriving ahead of Xenoblade Chronicles X on Wii U, it's certainly a home console level of game coming to the small screen, despite the 3DS - and its many predecessors - forging a notable part of their identity on unique portable experiences. In terms of sheer scale, a Nintendo portable won't have seen many more sizeable games.
Of course, in some form all but the improved CPU and 3D are available on the original 3DS systems, either with a Circle Pad Pro or - in the future - an amiibo scanning accessory. When you factor in the combined Nintendo Network IDs, eShop funds and Miiverse access across 3DS and Wii U we start to have a more cohesive relationship across our Nintendo hardware. This is further evident in the striking similarities - in terms of character animations and mechanics - across both Super Smash Bros., releases, and some occasional instances of cross-platform games: Mario vs Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars will follow the lead set by some indie developers in being a cross-buy title. Let's not forget cross-platform multiplayer with Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, too, all of which demonstrates that - slowly but surely - the lines are blurring.
Behind the scenes this has clearly been a priority for some time, too, with Nintendo building a new HQ and merging its portable and home console development teams over the past few years. These comments from Satoru Iwata in early 2014 also highlight some of Nintendo's thinking in relation to easing the challenges of developing games for diverse systems.
I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models.
The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.
All of these circumstances prompt speculation, naturally, but it's certainly reasonable to consider a next generation of hardware that shapes up rather differently from any we've seen before. Prior to the 3DS / Wii U we had occasional but very limited interactions between Nintendo's portable and home consoles, but the market and technology have evolved a great deal since those bygone eras.
With the Wii U's struggles to truly latch onto the market, and the 3DS being extended through the New models for - let's guess here - around 18-24 months, there's potential overlap for new hardware to have an unparalleled level of integration. When we've chatted amongst ourselves in Nintendo Life HQ we've often wondered whether a dual screen portable of pretty reasonable power could match up with a separate TV-based console, with the portable and home console naturally syncing and sharing data and, in plenty of cases, games and save progress.
We certainly expect that Nintendo is strongly considering a hardware future with a number of shared games, utilising graphical engines - and similar architectures in portable and home hardware - to scale games so that they run on both systems. We've cited a few examples where - arguably against the odds - this has already happened, and it's something that's been seen in the Indie scene (particularly) between the Vita / PS3 / PS4. If Nintendo's going to stick to its own approach and stay out of the graphical arms race, and hope to attract third-parties with innovation and a hit product rather than through systems with oodles of available RAM or cores in the processor, then it could be a viable way forward.
Whether Nintendo fully merges hardware so that the idea of a portable and home console as separate entities is finished is far more debatable - as Satoru Iwata himself has made clear - but there's an inevitability to Nintendo simplifying its systems and removing roadblocks in game development for itself and partners. The demands of producing two distinct ranges of games in disparate hardware have evidently been particularly challenge for Nintendo, and while that may be considered a positive by enthusiastic fans - more diversity across the platforms - its increasingly less sustainable for the company. Despite the 3DS having a strong 3.5 or so years (after a poor launch window) the company has recorded a number of financial losses courtesy of the Wii U's struggles, among other factors. Streamlining its development requirements would arguably allow Nintendo to produce more games with less drain in terms of cost, time and resources.
As the 3DS platform has evolved - culminating in the New Nintendo 3DS - and as the Nintendo Network ID has taken shape, we're seeing early, tentative steps in taking away boundaries between our portable and home console gaming. We'll control games the same way, potentially, we already share eShop funds, and we'll also use amiibo on both systems.
If Nintendo reduces or removes the gulf in technology in future generations, it'll be able to build on the stepping stones that the 3DS, Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS have laid down. It'll be fascinating to see what it does next.
Comments 132
While I am getting a New 3DS XL, I really wish it didn't exist and Nintendo just went ahead and released their next handheld. Even with the improved CPU, which likely very few games will actually utilize, the 3DS's hardware is woefully out of date, and Nintendo is just dragging its lifespan out a few more years. The Circle Pad Pro being built into the system should have been something that happened a LONG time ago, a 3D system with no camera control method is plain silly and reflected in the way most games were designed for it, and the lack of a 2nd joystick was one of the major complaints about the PSP, but Nintendo goes ahead and releases the 3DS without one anyway, than releases the Circle Pad Pro to "appease the complaints", only to than go out of their way to make the Circle Pad Pro as hard as possible to acquire and discourage developers from supporting it.
I'll consider Nintendo Network not crappy when digital purchases are account based and not console locked.
"It'll be fascinating to see what it does next."
If these are steps forward to Region Free, I'll be happy.
I was kinda hoping that the New 3DS would have A TV hookup to give that option of playing portable or as a console. I think that would be a neat feature. I'm going to have to wait to get the new 3DS but I do plan to get one eventually. It also kind of feels like the reign of the original 3DS is not done yet.
This might be the pinnacle of guilty pleasure.
Many of us are aware that this is a terrible deal for most people who already own a 3DS, and that upgraded consoles really shouldn't be a thing in general. But we still get it, because the small changes make for better gameplay overall. And considering the success of it, I'm pretty sure more N3DS-only titles will come out in the near future.
I don't like the word amiibo or the name new 3DS but I did like that "new" and amiibo use the same lower case font and colors. A very small insignificant thing but whoever came up w/ the idea at least earned their paycheck.
Splatoon should exist on new 3DS or Codename STEAM on Wii U to push the cross platform idea forward. And it would seem a waste if SSBU is the only game that lets you use 3DS as a Wii U controller.
@Windy
At current people who want to stream or record from their 3DS need to buy a modded 3DS that costs what I believe to be a few hundred more than the price of a standard 3DS. Having a video out port built in (which is what the mod does) would be a neat way to circumvent that, but Nintendo doesn't seem very keen on supporting people streaming and putting videos of their games online, they are in fact actively trying to discourage it, unlike most video game companies.
I hope the next system will still be backwards compatible at least on digital purchases since Nintendo Network ID already in place.
I can understand that accounts are locked to hardware. It's Nintendo. They are Nintendo. Even old games on VC still sells well. If it's not Hardware locked, I could see multiple systems filled with games being resold/shared with one account as a source which means less sales.
This struck me. Nintendo cannot stay out of the graphical arms race. The problem isn't graphics--it's power, and graphics are just what we see on the surface representing this shortfall. When Nintendo chooses to "avoid competition," they are proving that they don't have what it takes to compete. The PS4~Vita combo is already several steps ahead of Nintendo on this front, so while Nintendo is talking like this is some bold new idea, in reality, it's not and worse for them, it's already being done quite well by Sony.
Nintendo needs to offer a competitive edge in this, and wacky hardware concepts is not it--especially if they don't have the hardware power to offset the ideas if they don't work. And that is the big problem with the 3DS and Wii U--they have their wacky ideas, but they don't have the power to offer developers if they don't work out. For instance, Kinect 2 didn't work out, but the XBO had hardware power, a modern online infrastructure, new modern features, and an improved and expanded Achievement system to keep developers and publishers on-board. When the GamePad didn't work out--and let's face it, it hasn't, Nintendo had nothing else to keep developers around.
Without the hardware power, it doesn't matter. The Wii itself may have sold, but only casual-centric and pack-in games really had sales, and third parties couldn't do anything with it due to the gimped features, grossly out-of-date hardware, and numerous other limitations. The sales of the Wii, at the end of the day (or generation), were a fluke--it's the only best-selling console to ever lack third party support, miss nearly every major multiplatform release, die early, and lead to a failing successor console. The motion controls didn't work out, and it left devs with little reason to stick around.
Essentially, if Nintendo is going to stick to their own "backwards hardware, act like we aren't competing" nonsense, then they are guaranteeing another generation just like this one--where the console is failing and the portable appears to be the lowest selling in Nintendo's history, despite some good milestones.
Nintendo would need to do what they aren't now--they need to offer way more than their competitors. The PS4 and Vita both have multiple uses, can swap data, use cloud sharing, can both be signed in simultaneously with the same profile, sync Trophies, offer Trophies, are both powerful, both feature analog sticks (though the sticks aren't clickable, and should be), etc.
@Windy I agree with you. This has been mentioned before by many people. I think the next Nintendo console should really be a handheld that has an HDMI adapter similar to Chromecast or Amazon TV. No need for two consoles going forward if you can make one that can serve as a home console and portable.
Nintendo has been spreading themselves too thin with development and they could release more games much faster only having to program for one console.
If you look at the big picture, nobody & I mean nobody puts out so many games on two platforms & delivers the kind of quality that Nintendo does. The company has plenty of faults for sure but I give them tremendous credit for basically supporting 2 platforms almost by themselves. It's pretty remarkable in this day & age but we know it's not sustainable.
I think some kind of hybrid device is their best bet going forward. Either a home console that plays their handheld games with ease or if they support 2 platforms then it will be something where porting either systems games will be a fairly simple porting process, preferably with a cross buy feature.
@DarkKirby Bam. Couldn't have said it better myself (I, however, am not getting the New 3DS XL for the same reasons).
From a developer's perspective, I could see the following scenarios:
1. Games that have a console and portable version. The console version would transfer to the portable wireless and "scale down" graphically to fit within the hardware constraints of the portable. No need to purchase two separate games (i.e. SSB for Wii U and 3DS)
2. Games that are "console" only due to the console supporting features unique to the console and wouldn't support portable transfer (perhaps the game wouldn't scale well to the portable version).
3. On the flip side, you have "portable-only" games that are portable-only and don't have a console version. Would be cheaper for some developers to do instead of the aforementioned.
Nintendo could offer these options to its developers, depending on the kind of game they want to create. Offers integration of two devices, but still separate devices.
This is what I like with Sony's ecosystem, in particular the PS3/PS4 and PSVita integration. Nice to get a console version of a game, have the ability to play it on-the-go, and then sync back your progress to the console version. This is where Nintendo sorely falls behind on.
Miniaturization costs are the only thing preventing this from being a reality. That is why I think the next console should be a hybrid where the docking station for your handheld connects it to more powerful hardware required for the higher resolutions of larger displays.
What troubles me here most is the pace at which Nintendo is currently operating. The article made many good points, but I cannot help but feel that some if not most of those changes are close to half a decade late.
That might not sound that bad at first glance, but we are barely at the beginning of this generation, and Nintendo is still catching up to basic features established last generation, and, as it is Nintendo, they are not just "copy & pasting", but trying to "reinvent", slowly and cautiously, those features for their own purposes. Certainly, the should try to adapt what works for them, make necessary changes, keep their legacy alive and craft a new outlook for them, as they see fit, but all of this takes for what feels forever.
We don't know what this generation will bring in forms of new trends, I don't what success virtual reality, augumented reality, cloud computing and so on, will have, but it seems questionable to me that the industry will just stay the same and wait for Nintendo to sort itself out. Nintendo is already late to the party in major areas which will affect their business long term, like digital distribution (building an ecosystem), indie games and providing services, not just products (most obvious example being PS+) and more.
That damage cannot and will not be undone, certainly not this generation, and most likely not next generation either.
Ever more games seem to be moving into the online space, even exclusively and persistently. So far Nintendo seems slow not only to welcome "MMOs", in the broadest sense, but also e-sports and gamestreaming, as well as the whole social media aspect in general.
Now alot of those don't interest me personally, but I know that there are a great many consumers out there, who are eager to be able to share videos and post screenshots to facebook and whatnot, even MMOs seem to be becoming more popular on consoles with each passing year. The WiiU seems illequiped for this, basic issues rear it's head instantly, like how to handle communication between players. Each game is left to it's own devices with no systemwide standard being accessible to developers. Nintendo is also, thanks to WiiU's architecture, completely out of the loop of the PC-Console feedback-loop contentwise, which is tragically something that Nintendo cannot fix and by the time they might be able to, it's probably going to be to late to make any meaningful impact.
I think Nintendo needs to pick up the pace quite a bit, I understand this means there is more room for mistakes to be made, but frankly even at their slow pace, not every decision was a golden one as it is. Maybe they need to start by making some changes to their corporate structure as well, to speed things up in a meaningful way.
Many of those issue to not actually relate directly to game making, but to the enviroment in which those games are played and experienced. I understand Nintendo is all about linking this areas in meaningful ways, but maybe they should not try to reach for perfection on every conceiveable level, just there where it matters most. I think businesswise this would make a lot of sense for them.
At least until they really got their feet under them once more. I think all in all Nintendo with it's wall to the back, is Nintendo at it's best, but there should be some middle ground here
I think all of this is pointing to the Nintendo Fusion. The New 3DS and Wii U will last us for 2015 and 2016, and then Nintendo will launch their successor in 2017. The Nintendo Fusion's handheld aspect will be something similar to a smaller GamePad, and then it will sync with your TV to play those games on the big screen.
They are still slow on the online communication system.
@abbyhitter highly unlikely, if we go with Iwata's words.
The console/hybrid handheld sounds good on paper, but in reality it would be a rather compromised option, since it could be pricey for a handheld and weak for a console.
The most likely option is a family of gaming systems which comprises a console and a handheld, using similar architectures and OSs for ease and speed of developement, alongside strong connectivity.
@DarkKirby Nintendo used to ban videos of gameplay and handing out tons of copyright infringements like candy but now it looks like that has changed according to this article: http://wiiudaily.com/2015/01/nintendo-creators-program-launched/
Unlike most people eagerly waiting to get their hands on the NN3DS, and theres me with my N3DS like... Not much difference in my opinion as you can get Circle pad PRO and there was supposed to be an amiibo adapter for N3DS and 3D is fine to me so idc about the new one
"They are still slow on the online communication system."
Indeed, even in Heroes of Ruin which got voice communication (but you can resritct which you can and which cant communicate)
When you play you choose color which will be displayed on minimap (and that sux because all can get same colour). No nick on minimap, and its often get situation that only one (host) person know what to do and you cant get further because other players not followed you.
Faster dowloading? Right but new and old and 2ds still only got wifi "g".
I know that cpu and ram count too but they can optimalize it better on old 3ds and 2ds.
I may get one next year or so when price has gone down a bit and more Exclusive to NN3DS games come out!
I would be happy if the next gen portable was the new 3ds because we throw money at nintendo for these things only to be out of date next year. Doesn't seem worth it to upgrade to the new 3ds because nothing is really using it right now. I am optimistic though which is why I'm getting it.
@Dreamcaster-X
Actually, Sony does exactly the thing you're claiming only Nintendo does. Just because you don't like some of the franchises doesn't mean the quality isn't there.
@AJ_Lethal
What you described in your second paragraph is Sony.
I just want a nice high resolution screen/screens on the next handheld.
@Yorumi
I'll give credit where credit is due, and hopefully nintendo is moving in the right direction. However, lets be honest here for a moment, many people on this site mock and bash the vita regularly, it and all it's features have been mocked by nintendo fans since the day it was revealed. Now we're likely to see a comment section filled with many of the same people praising what they mocked just because the brand name changed.
This paragraph could not have been more accurate. If Sony or MS does something, it's bad. If Nintendo does it, suddenly it's amazing and commendable. It's like seeing Nintendo fans bash MS or Sony for having updates to games--while ignoring how many updates Nintendo has rolled out for Smash Bros or Mario Kart alone. Talking about how stupid phone games are, yet praising Nintendo for wanting to cram them into the 3DS.
It's the absolute height of fanboyism. "My favorite logo did it, so it's okay."
Similar architecture between the handheld and home consoles is the way to go. This way we can get cross-buy/cross-play and Nintendo keeps its feet firmly planted in both markets.
@Yorumi @Quorthon let's not stoke the flames of fanboyism. It's pretty even steven in here so far...lol
I need to let off a little steam. Time for a quick rant:
I pre-ordered that special Monster Hunter NEW 3DS XL, and I was surprised that I hadn't heard any update on it recently (since it is launching FRIDAY). I was told that it will not arrive until Monday MARCH 3! It's because I didn't pay for extra shipping! No one at my local Gamestop even told me that was even an option when I purchased it at the store.
I called the store last night and they told me that they couldn't help me, and that I should call customer support.
I called Customer support, was on hold nearly 30 mins, and was disconnected.
I called back, waited ANOTHER 35mins and finally got to talk to someone.
After being on hold for over an hour last night, I was told that there is nothing that can be done for my order. I was told that if I would have called on Friday that they would have updated my shipping for free. Instead... I am now told that my older will arrive MARCH 2!! NEARLY 3 WEEKS after release. They apologized and said that there is nothing they can do. Well that just ruined my entire week...
The thing that frustrated me the most was when she said "If you had called on Friday I could have fixed this for you". I'm sorry. Do I look like the type of man that would have a Time Machine where I can go back and fix this?! lol
ok... Rant over. I feel better now. Haha
@Windy HDMI out would be real nice. Streaming to Wii U even better, but some way to show others what I'm playing is really a necessity and my 3DS gets much less use because it lacks a way to share the screen. (3D just makes it worse).
@Quorthon You do realize this is a Nintendo fan site? The people here function the same as any other irrational brand lover, rarely critical and mostly positive. If you're looking for more negative opinions, you should try another site.
I don't think FUSION is happening this next round.
Here's my dream:
The new home Console is called Nintendo Entertainment System 2.
It's old school and 100% focused on games and releases in a year or 2 at a significant performance leap over PS4 and XB1 making it quantum leap over Wii U. It has no gimmick but a perfectly formed controller which harkens to the GameCube controller and compatibility with past controllers.
The new handheld is a handheld Wii U and comes out at roughly the same time. It has two screens and is compatible with Wii U games AND can stream with the home console to essentially give it Wii U compatibility.
I did say dream.
I usually don't care about power because Nintendo can make games look great regardless. However, for their next console they'll need to step it up in terms of power in order to make a cross compatible console/handheld. It doesn't necessarily need to be on par with the next PlayStation and Xbox consoles, but the gap in power should be much smaller than it is now.
Nintendo Network still has an extremely long way to go, but it's getting there. Perhaps another 5-10 years and it'll reach the minimum standards set by every other network system in the industry.
That aside, hopefully the next systems will be more successful to Nintendo and, more importantly, more appealing to more customers. I really do hope they go all handheld next gen and offer two models with an HDMI streaming dongle included. They could reach both their normal handheld market with a low end model and then go after the high end/usually-home console market with a high end model. And both could be used as "home consoles" using the streaming dongle and some wireless controllers for local play.
Now then...if Nintendo intends to continue using circle-pad type analogs for their next handheld(s), hopefully they can use hall effect sensors (and whatever else is needed) so that we can also get stick click inputs.
All I got from this article was lower costs for production which means more risks can be taken with games. If that translates to us getting F-Zero, Metroid, and some other ignored franchises back then I'm all for it. It also allows for more risks to be taken in games instead of sticking with tried and true formulas a la NSMB (which isn't always a bad thing mind but variety in gameplay within a franchise is always good).
@Quorthon you get "it". Outstanding comment, spot on all around.
@Yorumi bingo. You also get it. There is hope for this community after all. Not just blind fan boys.
@Jamester0722 GameStop strikes again! Lol seriously though that's some rough luck. Maybe you'll get lucky and the order will arrive early. I have that happen pretty often with Amazon.
I don't usually do this, but, the author used the phrase "increasingly less," which is a pet peeve word choice. Otherwise it's a reasonably well-written article, but I implore the author to never use this phrase again, and instead substitute "decreasingly."
@Ralek85 you nailed it regarding their corporate structure (and really, the rest of your comment as well) because I firmly believe that is the root of all their modern day issues.
@rjejr In the same vein of cross-platform games, I really REALLY think Nintendo should've made Kirby's Rainbow Curse for 3DS as well.
@Yorumi I love my Vita. I think it is really superior in many ways compared to the 3DS... technically and connectivity-wise, it is amazing. The area it's not superior is in marketing: I'm not sure having a full console experience on a handheld is a selling point to a lot of people. It's nice in theory, but most people I know would rather play a console game on a home console. I think the cross buy and cloud saves and other aspects are leagues ahead of the 3DS, but Sony has basically abandoned the Vita in North America. And that's ready sad because it's a good handheld.
If Nintendo incorporated aspects of the Vita in their next handheld, I'm all for it. But not because I'm mocking the Vita, but because if you want to stay competitive, there's nothing wrong with incorporating your competitor's good ideas.
@Quorthon Correction: Sony did do that. Not anymore as they have dropped 1st party support of the Vita. As a PlayStation fan, I've seen many people pissed at Sony's poor treatment of the Vita, and several aren't likely to support Sony's next handheld if there even is one.
@Yorumi I disagree with the entire idea that creative input concepts are "gimmicks." I feel like that is just a pejorative term for "different from the others." When you say "release a gimmick-free console," you mean "stop differentiating your product from your competitors." Nintendo struggled in the 64 and Gamecube eras with that plan, and flourished in the Wii era by departing from it. I don't know what the business case would be for doing this.
@IceClimbers
I don't think Sony's dropped 1st party support of the Vita--they just front-loaded the PS4 for a while during the start of the console. Sony published Borderlands 2, after all.
Though I agree in part, Sony's attitude towards the Vita has been frustrating, but 2015 looks like a turn-around may be occurring. It has more known releases lined up than the 3DS or Wii U. Lately, I've been playing it more than the 3DS.
Nintendo needs to dump the dual screen hardware. At no point during my ownership of three different DS' and my Wii U did I feel as though it was necessary or vital to my gaming. The best thing about it has been Wii Us off TV play and web browser, that's it.
The single, scalable OS should have debuted in 2012 between Wii U and the first 3DS, but better late than never I guess?
Man a PS4 looks tempting...
@Quorthon Almost, almost. The OS base is the same (FreeBSD forks), but the hardware architecutre was distinct between both the PS3 and PS4, not to mention is there is some sort of API in there a la Android.
@earthboundlink
Nintendo did not suffer during the N64 or GameCube eras for the reasons you state. Indeed, it was their bizarre need to be unusually different that harmed them. The N64 didn't use CD's, the hardware was more difficult to use, and while the analog stick caught on (because Sony did it better), the controller was notably bizarre and uncomfortable. The GameCube suffered from a strange controller design with features that were not continued in successor consoles, the disks held far less data, and it was the only console (successful) of the generation that could not play DVDs and required expensive and difficult-to-find peripherals to do online games, resulting in the smallest online game library of the generation, and in this point, you can include the Dreamcast.
The GameCube was also notably hurt by following the N64, which left a foul taste in the mouths of gamers and third parties, which meant the GC was starting from a losing position no matter what.
The Wii was a fluke--and the Wii U's dismal performance backs this up. It was a rare moment of Nintendo being weird and different that briefly worked--when the norm is the opposite.
@earthboundlink there's a difference between gimmick and innovation. The Wii remote and wii sports was an innovation (for its time, mind you i.e. pre Smartphone/tablet era) and the Gamepad is a gimmick. Dual screens is largely a gimmick as well.
N64 and GCN were both hampered by boneheaded design decisions; the 64 with carts instead of CDs and GCN with a failure to adopt DVDs and opt for mini DVDs instead. In the case of the 64, 3rd parties flat out admitted to siding with PS1 over that.
This article just confirms what I've been suspecting for awhile, Nintendo is 100 percent cooked. They seriously expect people to buy a new 3DS? Because of a cloud based account system, a jam packed VC, oh wait, they don't have that. It's a shame the blindly loyal will probably buy this and keep singing their praises. Unfortunately, the time for a reality check for Nintendo and it's fans may be long past.
@gatorboi352
I would dare argue that the Wii was a gimmick in the end, as an innovation leads to industry-wide acceptance, but it led only to a temporary fad that most consumers and all gamers grew tired of in short time.
For instance, the analog stick was an innovation and has become an industry standard. The Xbox 360 controller was an innovation (its basic set-up) as it has become a standard among the industry, particularly in stick layout and button labeling. Blu-Ray for games was an innovation, as it has become the norm, but the game cards for the TG-16 were not. In that case, though, it was just a failed format.
Actually, per the Xbox 360, Achievements were an innovation that gained widespread acceptance and use, including the Trophy system for Playstation systems and Achievements for Steam.
@Quorthon True. To be honest I actually don't own the Vita as the memory card prices were a turnoff at first, and now I'm simply choosing to focus on my 3DS/Wii U/PS4 as I only have so much time and money for gaming as it is. I was keeping up with the Vita for a while but I've sorta stopped so I don't really know the full extent of the Vita's upcoming library.
Anyways, as far as gimmicks vs innovation goes, I'd say the best example would be touch screens. When the DS came out, people questioned it and thought it was a gimmick at the time. Now touch screens are a standard not just in the gaming industry, but in many other places as well. Smartphones, tablets, PC monitors, etc. all use (or are starting to use) touch screens.
At the same time, Nintendo needs to be wary of streamlining the two platforms too much. It might help with their software droughts, sure, but it could also hurt their sales.
Look at the PS Vita. It is a great system packing a significant amount of power and a great screen. It was marketed as the “Portable Home Console” experience, yet it has largely tanked in sales. As Sony has discovered, not many people want to play home console games on a tiny screen especially when the same game is available for the TV. I am not trying to bash the Vita, but isn't that why most people state that the 3DS is better than the Vita; the unique games? Now we want the 3DS to do the very thing that caused the Vita to "fail."
Furthermore, home console game design and portable game design have separate philosophies. Look at Luigi’s Mansion: Dark Moon vs the original. The separate mansions and the multiple levels allowed it to be a better portable experience. If you just have time on a bus ride or car ride or when you’re “reading a magazine”, it’s easy to pick up and put down. KH3D did the same thing.
However, that said, there are many folks who don’t have such commuting schedules. I also don’t travel that much either. I play my 3DS mostly at home. So if all the games on my portable were available on my console, I would probably not shell out extra cash for a secondary device just for the few times I would use it outside the home. Especially with off-TV play with the gamepad.
I think the 3DS succeeds because it has that portable experience for people playing on the go, and for people like me who play at home it also has the unique games not available on the Wii U.
Maybe a solution would be to have one device – a portable ~$200 for which you could by an adapter ~$100-150 for the TV. The adapter would upgrade the visuals/shaders/effects, but can only be used if you have the portable console plugged in. Think of the initial SSB trailer where Mario makes the jump from 3DS to Wii U and how his graphical style gets enhanced. The key is that one cannot work without the other. Because if they both work independently with the same games, one is doomed to fail.
TL;DR – Having two separate devices that play the same games seems like a good idea on paper, but could have unforeseen side effects.
@Yorumi @Quorthon The fact that people can't decide what is a gimmick and what is an innovation is exactly my point. Either way, it's unique and interesting, at least at first. Just because it doesn't personally appeal to your preference for "traditional controls" is not a reason to abandon an idea. Think about it, Skyward Sword would have been terrible with traditional controls; the whole concept was built around motion (and I thought it was awesome, and kind of dread going back to "traditional" for the next installment).
I'm not trying to stoke a flame war here, I just think the whole "traditional controls" vs. "gimmick" argument is a useless distinction that comes down to a few picky gamers' personal preferences, just like "core gamers" vs. "casual gamers." Different people like different things, and don't fit neatly into categories like that.
And whether it's a gimmick or not, motion controls are absolutely everywhere in modern smartphone games. They caught on, along with touch screen gaming, which was the "gimmick" of the DS.
There are all kinds of arguments about the best way to make and sell a console, but I just think the conversation is more interesting and productive when people stop throwing around these pejorative distinctions that ultimately just mean "things I don't like."
Okay here are my thoughts. Firstly, with the release of a 3DS this year I doubt we will see anything as far as another handheld is concerned within the next couple of years which causes a big problem with an already overdue upgrade in technology. It is simply far too old.
I don't think they will release a hybrid console as their next system. There are way too many problems that would need to be overcome. First of all, everyone says that the Wii U has no third party support which is true. However, what makes you so sure that they will come rushing to port their games over to a hybrid system?
It sounds like another "gimmicky" console to me which is what got them in this situation to begin with. Not only would developers need to port games over to what ever Nintendo's hardware be for the home portion of the console, but then it would need to be scaled down for running on a more limited handheld power? Can you realistically see anyone doing that? It would be another easy way out for Activision, EA and Ubisoft etc. Plus I don't want to wait a whole year until Nintendo finally starts being able to push out it's own first party support because they have to figure out how to programme for the machine themselves.
For me I see Nintendo keeping their handheld and home consoles separate for the time being. It will be a lot safer than putting all their eggs into one basket, at least until they are in a more financial stable position with hopefully the Quality of Life pillar producing a good steady income. Then I think they can take a gamble.
For now the next home console, which I think will be the next system they release, needs to be more powerful than a PS4 so that it can be at least ready to take some damage when the PS5 and Xbox Two are announced and the hardware is revealed to be more powerful. It won't seem, I hope, as much of a difference. But I doubt Nintendo will go for Blu-Ray, licensing technology like that doesn't appear to be their thing.
I also see like everyone else that both handheld and home console will be linked together like the PS Vita and PS4 with a proper Nintendo ID system in place.
@earthboundlink I could not agree more. Most people call the gamepad, second-screen idea a gimmick. I for one could not imagine a successor without it. I do admit that it has been disappointing that a large number of Nintendo games has ignored it, but hopefully that will change in the current line-up. The maps alone is a massive feature in my opinion. Having played Arkham City and Arkham Origins on the Wii U, I dread the day that I play Arkham Knight and have to go back to pausing every 2 minutes to get my bearings.
I, too, loved Skyward Sword for the motion controls. Especially since we never got that awesome light saber Star Wars game we all dreamed up the moment the Wii was announced…
@Quorthon fair enough, great counterpoints.
I still contend that Wii remotes were innovations at the time that Nintendo simply failed to sustain/capitalize on, hence why it is now looked back on as a fad. Nintendo had a whole blue ocean strategy success in their hands that they simply let get away in a sea of profits (that are now quickly dwindling).
@earthboundlink
Actually, with a few exceptions, most of use have actually used very similar definitions of what defines a gimmick in this industry. At the heart of that is the temporary or under-used status of said gimmick.
@gatorboi352
Had the Wii Remote become a kind of "new norm" for the industry as a whole, I'd have called it a true innovation. I called it such for a long time, and eventually I felt I had to just consider it a fad or gimmick as it didn't catch on and generally failed to live up to its promises.
@Yorumi I think that’s his point. You are calling the motion controls a gimmick, because you don’t like them. Other people who like the motion controls think it’s innovation. I loved Skyward Sword, Metroid Trilogy, Mario Galaxy and even NSMBW with the Wiimote.
I do think that it needs to be balanced. I.e. in OOT3D, I used the motion controls as often as the circle pad. I switched back and forth between the two seamlessly.
… But then of course you have people complaining about too many control options… I guess you cannot ever win.
@Quorthon
Shuhei Yoshida said half a year ago that Move will be essential for future VR-games.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/playstation-move-was-ahead-of-its-time-will-be-imp/1100-6421842/
MS was sure 1½ years ago that Kinect2 was the future. (and HoloLens ;p)
Motion control is not dead, it just smells funny.
@Yorumi Everything you just wrote says "I don't like it, therefore Nintendo should not do it." It just strikes me as a kind of myopic way to look at an industry and how it might move forward. Like I said, regardless of personal preferences, motion control is a mainstay in gaming now. It's not like it replaced "traditional" controls, it's just another option out there. It's not like you're mandated to buy these games if you hate the controls. (I normally hate the argument of "just go play something else," but you seem to really adamantly hate motion control, which does make me wonder why you were still using it so late into the Wii era.)
Refusing to acknowledge that different input concepts are important to the future of this industry means that the only possible way to move forward is more power, which is what we all thought would be the case in 1993. But we've more or less reached the point where more power adds more expense to development without adding that much to the actual quality of the game.
@Quorthon What I'm reading is that motion control was a gimmick and was overused in the Wii era. That doesn't really square with that definition. I agree with the notion that the gamepad is underused, but I don't think that makes it a "gimmick." I still think it's a great concept and can add a lot (just as it did in so many DS/3DS games as maps, supplemental info, etc), and there's even more to be done with it in the vein of Wii Sports Club baseball's use of it, and some of the Nintendo Land uses. It hasn't sold well, and it's underused, but there's still untapped potential there. Maybe it stays untapped, who knows, but I don't want to see it abandoned just yet.
@Yorumi
Gamepad is replicated, somewhat, by both MS (SmartGlass) and Sony (Remote Play).
@Yorumi "it made games worse overall" is an opinion that not everyone shares. "never adopted as a standard of the industry" is completely untrue. Every smartphone and tablet has a built-in accelerometer and gyroscope. I remember when the gyroscope was added to the iPhone, it was demoed with a game…
As much as console gamers hate to admit it, the industry includes smartphones and tablets now. That is fact. Furthermore, the DualShock 3 has six-axis motion sensing and the DualShock 4 has a gyroscope and accelerometer as well.
@Yorumi
A common estimation of the gamepad cost is $80 (wich would be surprising as it would mean half of what the Wii U console costs).
http://www.destructoid.com/cnn-estimates-the-cost-of-wii-u-s-parts-to-be-228-249435.phtml
The regular controller that would replace the gamepad cost about $15.
http://www.totalxbox.com/67117/xbox-ones-kinect-costs-75-to-manufacture-controller-costs-15-report/
That would leave you with the savings of $65 for a slightly better console than PS3/X360 with nothing grabbing the attention of customers except Nintendo games. That is pretty much the cost of a free game that is included.
@Yorumi Touche. I suppose we were really just arguing semantics with "gimmicks."
I think the point is when you say you want Nintendo to release a new console with no "gimmicks," it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to everyone as it does to you.
Also, without trying new things, how is anyone supposed to figure out what will be a gimmick and what will be innovation. If the analog stick had been canned before release because someone thought it was too gimmicky... I still play some games with the d-pad. If people keep pushing for "traditional" controls, we will never move forward.
@Quorthon What are you talking about???? Where in my statement did I say I hate Sony??? Could you point that out for me??? I seem to have missed that paragraph, please enlighten me.
Furthermore as I said, I give them credit for supporting 2 platforms without hardly any third party support, something Sony has tremendous amounts of.
Xenoblade Chronicles 3Ds' box art makes me think that they maybe quite a few games coming to new Nintendo 3DS only.
Nintendo still need to sort out problems with Wii U. For one, what's the point of Nintendo Tvii in Europe? If nothing's on it get rid of it. And two, what ever happened to Wii u being able to surrporting two game Pads? Yes this was said at e32012. But nowhere can you get a game pad on its own, so your screwed if you drop that gamepad.
For Nintendo's next home console they should concentrate on power and acceptable graphics so that third party developers can easily port their games on the console. Have a good controller that is around half the size of the Wii Us game pad if a screens going on the controller. Make great unique games, not a great but odd unique console. Have an awesome portable 4ds that has graphics equal to the GameCube.
@Yorumi That's the same problem I have with the gamepad. I do like it, It's handy with it's off-screen play, but very very few games do anything with it other than that. I can play through entire games published by Nintendo themselves like Super Mario 3D World without even glancing at it. Other games, like Mario Kart 8, uses the gamepad like a 3DS and displaying a map of the track... handy but completely unnecessary since that could easily be on screen As in past entries of the series.
Until they or sometime starts putting out games in which the gamepad is used in a definitive way that is vital to gameplay, this is an argument that will go on if or until Nintendo goes a different direction.
The New 3ds makes the original 3ds and 3ds xL feel like unfinished prototypes.
@DarkKirby I would just want to hook up to my TV like Chromecast or something similar. Even make it so that once you do hookup to the TV maybe be able to connect a Wireless controller to it then just close it up like its in sleep mode and play away right there on your TV
Nintendo I'm working for you for free let's get this going please . it would be just an awesome feature and Nintendo could go to just 1 system. Maybe wait on this till the Wii-U dies out.
@Yorumi I know you said you don't hate the gamepad but feel its underused. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? You don't care for its uses (i.e. maps, menus, keyboards, UI) and want something that utilizes it better. Yet at the same time you hate controllers being "shoehorned" in. It seems like a catch 22. What would you suggest Nintendo do to make it work? Why do small advances like analogue triggers or clickable sticks become innovations yet small advances in dual screen become gimmicky.
For your grievances against motion controls, I would like to point out that Nintendo has listened. They get that motion controls aren't for everyone, which is why the Wii U has standard control options for just about every motion controlled game (except where it wouldn't make sense, Wii Sports Club, Wii Fit U, Wii Party U, etc). But now they get criticized for having too many options.
@Yorumi
Yes it is a problem when Nintendo has to be reminded by their stockholders to use the gamepad - that is why we will see Captain Toad, Mario Maker, Kirby, Mario vs Donkey Kong, as well as Starfox cockpit screen, Devil's Third map editor, extended use of gamepad for Xenoblade and Splatoon. Probably something will be made for Zelda too.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/index.html#s09
@Yorumi Man I can't stand Motion controlled games which they practically made us play on Wii. They have gotten better with the Wii-U. I hope they might consider just dumping the new gamepad and Motion Controls and go back to a wireless controller. Heck similar to the old sega genesis 6 button controller which was my favorite pad of all time. Just add a couple analog sticks and 2 shoulder buttons. Should be doable.
What's the Battery life on everyone gamepad? I get no more than 3 hours once I take the pad off the charger. Its been like this since I got the Wii-U. Really! **sadface**
@theberrage The New 3DS's hardware power upgrade over the 3DS is comparable to that of the Wii and GameCube. The 3DS is roughly on par with the GameCube (the CPU being weaker; hence no Ice Climbers in Smash), while the New 3DS is almost on par with the Wii.
@IAmDeclanJay The "4DS", or whatever the successor to the 3DS family will be called, will probably be about on par with the PS3 or even the Vita (don't remember which is more powerful).
Actually, that brings up a point geared towards the general discussion: seeing as how the successor to the 3DS family will likely be HD (720p, no way it will be 1080p), then Nintendo will definitely have to move towards more integration with a universal OS in order to avoid having an even worse version of the droughts that currently pendulum swing between the 3DS and Wii U.
@Windy 3 hours for the GamePad is about average. Still weird how the GamePad has such low battery life even with the high capacity battery, yet the Pro Controller has an absolutely ridiculous battery life. I've only had to charge my Pro Controller 2-3 times in the almost 2 years I've had the thing!
My idea
is they take a 2ds and take off the extra plastic that separates the screens
next add captive touch screen with 480p at least more like 720p next make the system backwards compatible with new 3ds and 3ds games upscaled to 480p but it would not be in 3d also with two circle pads
next have amiibo support and wireless hdmi support via something like roku stick or Crome cast next have download movies and tv shows or have something like anime channel of the 3ds in Europe
next have it at least near xbox 360 to wii u power
also have it with micro sd card expandable up to 128 gb
also micro usb port
and ir port on front for wii remote support also can be used with hdmi adapter
and a card slot
I am not that keen on handheld consoles. Yes, I owned a gameboy all those centuries ago but since that time they do not appeal to me. I won a PSP at a work Christmas raffle but gave it to my younger brother.
The new 3DS seemed like a good console to try out handhelds again at a reasonable price. However (according to Wikipedia) the new 3DS comes with ancient wifi technology, namely 801.11 b/g at 54 Mb/s. I recently upgraded my router to 801.11ac at 500Mb/s. The dual band 801.11n runs at 300Mb/s to match my PC's wifi. The Wii U is wired via a usb network adapter.
To put a slow outdated NEW 3DS wifi on my network will slow everything down to 54Mb/s. This will never do based on the network traffic generated in my household.
This is what I find frustrating about Nintendo today. Their love for cheap, outdated technology mixed with new innovation.
Of course this matters little to some people but to each their own.
Over the weekend it took damn near three hours just to copy 28 GB of data from the system to a new external hard drive.
I love their games and all that but I can no longer claim their hardware as quality.
@Yorumi Maybe I tend to check the map more often than you or I just play more adventure games or something, because I notice a stark difference between pausing the screen and looking down. I tend to check the map a lot, and glancing at the screen in my hands is much faster than pausing. It takes time for games to stop the action, load the map/menu, and resume the action. Furthermore, with the gamepad map, if I am going in the right direction, I keep going while looking at the map. Versus, completely pausing my progress.
HUDs are great, but at the same time the gamepad menus are way better/faster because of the touch screen. (It's not a monumental change but it does make things smoother, easier, more intuitive than using a stick/d-pad to move a cursor). I absolutely hate that the touch screen does nothing in SSB!!! Especially because of the 3DS version, I keep trying to use the menu by touching the icons on the screen to no avail...
@earthboundlink
You're picking and choosing what you want to read, it seems. Nintendo grossly over-used it themselves, but as a whole, motion control died within about two years of MS and Sony deciding they were going to give it a shot. It was a gimmick, and a short-lived one at that.
@Dreamcaster-X
When did I say you hated Sony? I noted only that your taste does not determine quality, and that you prefer Nintendo to Sony does not mean their products are somehow lacking in quality.
Read what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote. I do not make it a habit to force people to decipher what I say or to look for some kind of other hidden response. I speak frankly.
@Quorthon I never said I preferred Sony over Nintendo either. I speak frankly too, your inferring what you want from my posts.
@ericwithcheese2
As I've noted before, Nintendo likes to say "we make the hardware for the kind of games we want to make," yet they've made nothing that justifies the GamePad or shows why it is better than a traditional or regular controller.
What the hell did they make it for?
@Dreamcaster-X
Well, at this point, either you really are incapable of reading a post and actually understanding what is being said, or you're trolling. You may speak frankly, but you're responding to statements you have fully imagined. You have twice responded to things I never actually said.
@Quorthon I think the disconnect here is that you all view gaming as limited to "the Big 3," Sony, MS, and Nintendo. Motion gaming is everywhere in smartphone games. I also don't think you can say that the Wii was "universally" determined to be a gimmick. I think that may be a fashionable view among thread commenters on game sites right now, but I don't see evidence that it's universal.
Look, I get it, you like certain kinds of games, and you dislike others, and you probably generally talk to people who agree with your tastes. But there are motion games that appeal to a pretty big swath of the gaming community. Skyward Sword was well-reviewed and I personally thought it was amazing in large part due to motion control. Mario Galaxy had subtle use that was non-intrusive and fun. Other games that used the pointer function, like Trauma Center were good. Zack & Wiki was a cool concept. The third-person shooter style was really well-implemented (think Metroid Prime). Now you might not prefer it, but those games were not "shoehorned" motion controls.
These are not "gimmicks," they're ideas. You don't have to like them, but dismissing the best-selling console of Nintendo's existence as a "gimmicky" fluke just because the games don't appeal to you is not a good idea for a way forward, it's a demand that the company cater to your specific tastes.
Now the idea that developers don't like Nintendo's consoles is something that bears discussion.
Either way, I think the unified platform idea is a good one. It uses Nintendo's historical advantage (handheld gaming) to bolster the console.
I definitely feel like this was a half step for Nintendo. Although the New 3DS is a great piece of hardware I feel like there could have been one or two more additions which would have made it a full step forward.
The first is a higher resolution screen. It feels like we have been asking/expecting this on a Nintendo handheld ever since the 3DS XL was released. Come on Nintendo, HD has been around for decades (1936 was the first HD broadcast, 1988 was the first LCD TV, 1996 was the first digital HD broadcast in America), why doesn't the 3DS have HD displays? I know that the 3D makes it more complicated, with having to display 2 images at once, but the 3DS has been out for almost 4 years with no upgrade whatsoever to the screens. A capacitive screen would also be nice for the touch screen.
The second is more interaction between the 3DS and the Wii U. The original DS and the Wii got together but it seems that there was a divorce since the newer versions came out. The only two games that I know of that co-mingle between the 3DS and the Wii U are Super Smash Bros. and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate.
Not really a 3DS feature but something that would push the 3DS into the next generation is cross-buy. I'm not quite sure this isn't already a feature on Nintendo consoles. There are many VC games that I have on my Wii U that I would love to play on the go on my 3DS. The only problem is I already purchased the game for $5 on my Wii U and then I have to buy it again for $5 on my 3DS. That's $10 for one game! If you don't know what 5+5 is. It doesn't seem like a lot but when you have 15-20 VC games it adds up. Sure Nintendo is getting closer with the release of Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars, but there are many VC titles already out that Nintendo could do this for. Nintendo really needs a better account system. NNID is a step in the right direction but I'm not sure if a full account system will be here by the end of 2015.
I'm sure that there are many more features I'm missing, such as putting the 3DS onto the TV, but the features I discussed above could have made the New 3DS a full step, in my opinion.
Edit: I will be getting a New 3DS XL (because of Nintendo of America) but not on day 1.
@Hotfusion I personally don't have a AC router (I want one) but it would have been nice to see Nintendo put a little effort into future proofing their systems. Although 802.11ad will probably be at CES 2016. lol
@Yorumi Those are good questions that are interesting to discuss. The Gamecube, to me, lost out because the PS2 capitalized on the new DVD format, so people wanted DVD players, and thought they might as well get a game system with it. The Gamecube did not have that, and was just an old-school game system. So despite the fact that (I think) it was the most powerful system of its generation (or at least on par), it lost out because it didn't have the multimedia features that were popular at that time.
The Wii seems to me like it succeeded because it was the right combination of cheap, accessible, and intriguing to people. The idea of motion gaming was appealing to a lot of people because it takes away the abstraction of buttons—>actions.
But the Wii did kind of make it to market before the tech was quite ready. Motion+ was what it should have been in the first place, so I think that was part of the ultimate problem gamers had with the tech.
I think the Wii U has done very poorly (and I'm not kidding myself into thinking this thing will every truly be a success*) largely because while the intrigue is there, the price is too high, and the market for casuals is eaten by tablets, etc. So the concept is a little less intriguing, and the price is higher, with the result that tthe value proposition is not there.
*although, despite the poor sales, the console is truly underrated, as there are a lot of really good games.
The Wii was lightning in a bottle that came out at the right time (before smartphones and tablets). If it had been released even a few years later it would have flopped hard.
@Quorthon Was Nintendo Land not a fun game? You had to use the Gamepad for that game. Not to mention Project Guard, Project Robot, and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, which are all coming out this year.
I wish that you could like comments on Nintendolife. I wouldn't want them to be organized by popularity though.
@Shadowkiller97 Me too! I'm not quite sure why they didn't take advantage of the touch screen in Smash.
In terms of the HUD, Pikmin 3 is a great example of this. The ability to change routes on the fly on the Gamepad is great and makes navigating areas and completing the game easier and more enjoyable. The only times I paused the game for a game related reasons were to start the day over or quit.
I am a HUGE fan of this style of boxart. I understand it's so different to make it more obvious to uneducated customers that this is for the "new" 3DS only. But I really really like the console logo up the top, and the game picture more of a wide style, any one else agree/disagree?
I don't think the 3DS lifespan will end soon until the next gen for the Wii U shows up. Its like GBC. even after the GBA launched, it still continued till 2003 like five years. The game boy had 733 games, game boy color had 464 games and then the GBA had 1024 games.
So then the DS had 1297 games while the 3DS has only 947 games so Nintendo needs to make more games for the system to satisfy us otherwise, even with the great quality of games on the 3DS, its underwhelming.
My big deal here is that many are saying that the 3DS lifespan will die out soon and that's not true because at the moment, its the only one that prints money for them and its coincided with the Wii U. So the next gen handheld can't be crossed with the Wii U which would mean that Nintendo would have to make the next gen console for it as well.
Also why are you guys bothered about the next gen so early? Can't you just play with the game and move on to next level?
I think the merging of handheld and console is inevitable.
Despite the relative success of the 3DS, and the early success of PS4, it seems the struggles of the Wii U and PS Vita show us that it's becoming increasingly difficult to support two robust platforms in this day and age.
The New 3DS does feel a bit like a stop-gap measure, but if this is to keep the platform current and give developers better tools for the next few years, then it's not the worst thing that could happen. I'm certain most games will be 3DS and New 3DS compatible, and only certain "hardcore" titles will require the updated hardware.
Ultimately, If Nintendo can find an appealing way to merge console and handheld, they'll be leading the way into the next "gen" instead of playing catch up with the global conglomerates and mobile cash ins who have kind of stolen gaming away from the gamers.
One important thing to remember, is that the DS/3DS runs on ARM and the Wii/Wii-U runs on outdated PowerPC. If Nintendo expects to merge their home console and portable hardware lines, it will likely mean an ARM device, which the Xbone/PS4 devs will scoff at, but mobile and indies will rejoice.
Sadly, this will also likely mean and end in backwards compatability with Wii/Wii-U software moving forward.
Only the CPU huh...... wish the GPU as well since it needs a big upgrade
@Yorumi I think the gamepad has only been ignored by the industry because of poor sales, not because it was a bad idea.
I think the two main issues for the Wi U have been the shovelware legacy of the Wii, and a lack of visibility in the marketplace.
The Wii, despite having some great games, has a heavily tarnished reputation because lots of new customers found the idea appealing, bought into it, and then found they kept buying tripe games that they and their kids immediately lost interest in, and the motion controls were not as good as pre-purchase hype got us all believing. So while it sold well, I think a lot of people were let down by the Wii experience. Any successor, especially one retaining the Wii naming convention, was up against it because of this.
Combining the legacy of the Wii with the negligent marketing strategy for Wii U, resulted in dire sales and rapid jumping of shop etc by developers.
I was not going to buy a Wii U. I'd had a Wii and was let down by it, hardly used it really (for a number of reasons).
The thing that made me change my mind and buy a Wii U?
Off-TV play.
The gamepad was a game-changer for me. I play more off-tv than I do tv. A lot more. And my kids will benefit too when they a bit older.
I'm convinced most families would love the Wii U, if only they gave it a second thought. The reasons they don't are the two I suggest above, IMO.
As per StarDust4Ever, I see Nintendo going for the ARM/Android approach, with a NintendoOS glued over the top. While direct backwards-compatibility would be lost, emulation or VC could still be used.
This would be a reasonably cheap option to develop as Android is well-established and open source, and they could then produce multiple hardware options (as per Apple), scaling software accordingly.
Plus I really think a new Nintendo handheld needs phone call capability and a semi-decent camera. It doesn't have to look like a conventional phone, but the capability will make it a much more appealing prospect as a single portable device to carry around.
@Quorthon That's kind of what I said. Haha. It's handy in some cases - particularly the off-screen play, but its far from being a necessity. It's like a full size 3DS for the living room. Neat, but underused and expensive.
@earthboundlink The very early PS2 success can be linked to having a DVD player built in, but its longevity definitely is a reflection on the software and superior variety of games that system had. You don't sell 157 million units worldwide because it can play DVDs. It did that number because of the game library was far above and beyond what other systems that generation had.
The PS2 having the DVD player may not have been responsible for 157 million sales, but it got the system off to a solid start (snowball effect).
@mineralrich Exactly what I had in mind. And although the console-exclusive games can't be played on the handheld, the handheld-exclusive games could still be blown up and played on the big screen, with or without help (from the CPU and/or GPU) from the console. Indie games and smaller games will find their way to the handheld, where big AAA games will primarily be on the console. But most games (and ALL VC games) will be playable on both systems, with cross-buy and VC cross-buy.
Very interesting piece. It's no secret Nintendo moved around resources to save the 3DS (Retro helping with Mario Kart). Even looking at releases this year, while the New 3DS is getting lots of attention, it's still a bit thin on solid titles compared to 2013 which had hit after hit month after month. A scalable development environment for dedicated gaming hardware sounds like a step in the right direction.
@ericwithcheese2 I can't disagree with you there, but that initial install base drives developers toward the system and creates a positive feedback loop.
Which I now see @Ootfan98 already said. I also think at that time, the Playstation brand (and still, to some extent) had a lot of caché, which is to say the kids at the time thought of it as the "cool" system to own.
And don't discount the DVD thing too much. That was right at the beginning of the DVD format taking off, so the Playstation 2 was not a case of "and it has a DVD player!" It was also one of the first widely owned DVD players of any kind. At least that was my anecdotal experience in the U.S. I knew a lot of families whose only DVD player was a PS2. It wasn't until sometime after that that DVD players became very cheap and widely available.
I don't think multimedia really sells systems anymore, since everybody seems to have some kind of streaming-based entertainment system already. Blu Ray didn't do much for PS3 (whose life cycle went very much like I think Wii U's will go), and I haven't heard much hoorah about the current gen systems' multimedia capabilities, except the streaming gameplay videos.
Honestly, I think the current market is tough to figure out, and Americans and Japanese gamers are diverging in their interests, all while the pie for dedicated game systems is shrinking due to smart devices, tablets, etc. I don't think the market for consoles or dedicated game systems will go away anytime soon, but I think the last two generations were pretty much the peak in sales terms. Ultimately, Nintendo is the only one trying to do something that can't really be done on a decent PC, which I think bodes well for them in the long run.
@Quorthon
I don't know ANYONE who owns a vita. Probably because nobody want to play COD on the go. But you always seem to be the voice of Sony and MS on this site!
@beautifulstrong
I suppose if you're only paying attention to me, then I guess I am the "voice of Sony and MS" on here. But I'm not. I'm not the only Nintendo fan open-minded enough to play other games.
That you don't know anyone that owns a Vita doesn't mean anything. And it still has better sales than the Wii U.
@B64111980
If the Wii wasn't a gimmick, the changes it brought would have been permanent. Those changes were temporary, peaking at around 4 years, and that casual audience you tout has left console gaming altogether.
It was the very definition of a gimmick.
gim·mick
ˈɡimik/
noun
a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business.
It attracted an audience, but an audience that did not stick around, did not move onto the Wii U, and it didn't change things. In technology, innovation leads to widespread change--like the iPad... which was actually invented by Microsoft several years earlier, but Apple got the basic concept to succeed at market first.
@jjmesa16
Nintendo Land didn't change anything and a good half of that package simply wasn't fun. Most of what it did could have been done on any other console with split-screens. There were some novel concepts like the Luigi's Mansion game, but even that tended to play out the same way every time. The whole game had balance issues and next to nothing there elevated the GamePad to anything revolutionary or showed how it would actually improve or change things.
The question you'd have to ask is, if Nintendo Land was such a success in it's GamePad use, why hasn't it led to other Nintendo games utilizing the GamePad in similar ways? Even Nintendo doesn't like using that thing for its gimmicky features.
As for Project Guard and Project Giant Robot--people need to stop talking about those as if they're actual games. Nintendo never said that they were as they were tech demos, strangely at a time when they should've been well beyond showing off tech demos for their console. Release dates for those "games" were largely invented out of whole cloth by a couple of untrustworthy sites online, and the only thing actually hinted at about them is possibly some kind of implementation into the next StarFox, which already sounds like it's going to be a mess by using gyro controls.
As for Kirby and the Rainbow Curse? That doesn't justify the GamePad. It's just a sequel to a game already "innovated" for the DS. It's not even a new concept. It doesn't justify the GamePad, and frankly, it feels like Nintendo threw it together because they felt like it might.
Again, Nintendo's old statement was "we make the hardware to make the games we want to make," and what we're seeing now seems to be more like "we're making some games to try to justify this hardware."
@FarsanBaloo
Microsoft has already abandoned Kinect 2, and there are no known Kinect-only games for 2015.
Motion control is, right now, quite effectively dead. And the "motion control" that may be necessary for Morpheus or Oculus Rift will not be anything like the Wii Remote and will have nothing in common with it. What they do is more likely to be like a glove.
@Quorthon The Vita barely has better overall sales than the Wii U, and that tide is clearly turning because the U outperformed it worldwide for most of 2014. Sony has all but given up on the Vita in North America (where it has not outsold Wii U) with disabling apps for the console and having virtually no first party support in 2015 - although a number of third party games lined up.
I love my Vita. But I'm not blind to Sony's missteps with the handheld and the writing on the wall is bleaker (everywhere outside of Japan) for Vita than Wii U.
@B64111980
I'm not really even sure what your first post (#123) is even trying to say as you elected not to use grammar or punctuation in it, thus delivering some sort of unsolvable cryptic message.
Per your other point, just because you "believe" something does not make it true. And frankly, the exact same argument could be made for the DS and 3DS. I owned 2 DS Lites and a friend of mine has had 3 3DS systems.
Hell, think logically for a moment--if the PS2 was as crappy and prone to failure as you claim, it never would have garnered the massive sales that it did. It's the best-selling game hardware of all time.
@B64111980 Motion gaming was a fad. For all the success the Wii had, it turned off a lot of people who just wanted a traditional gaming experience. You can't compare mobile gyro controls with a home console system because most mobile games are designed for being on the go and Most people want that console experience at home with standard controllers. The fact that Sony and Microsoft have abandoned the Move and Kinect should say something. @Quorthon
@ericwithcheese2
I don't think the writing's on the wall for the Vita just yet. It hasn't done well, and Sony has screwed up a lot concerning it, but I think it has another year before final judgement can be placed on it. It's strength is that it still has decent 3rd party support, almost 40 known games coming to it, around 8 exclusives, and several Sony 1st party titles, including MLB The Show.
By comparison, the 3DS has only 22 known titles so far for 2015, and the Wii U has only 22 as well.
The PS4 may well boost the appeal of the Vita. Sony could easily boost the appeal of it by including at least a 16GB memory card with every system and selling the 64GB cards worldwide--or finally churning out, say, a 128 GB card--and dropping the price of all of them.
The Vita's biggest weakness is those damn memory cards.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/12/29/2015-video-game-release-schedule.aspx
@B64111980 I don't remember a ton of PS2 consoles failing. Could've happened though, but my original one still works fine. I would've used the Console Failing argument with the 360 because I think the RROD is partially responsibile for that console's large sales numbers - which overtook the Wii in North America last year.
@Quorthon I would be more inclined to agree that the marketing of the Vita as a companion piece to PS4 would be a boost, but they already did that. I see demo displays with the Vita alongside the PS4, and it had bundles with it included. But it didn't help anywhere outside of Japan where they are buying up handhelds (both Vita and 3DS) like crazy.
Those memory card prices are outrageous and still are. I think maybe PlayStation Now could boost Vita, too, but it would require Sony to market it and make the general gaming public aware of its capabilities. And they haven't done any aggressive marketing for it since almost launch.
@ericwithcheese2
I estimated at one point that final sales of the Xbox 360 were likely "off" by about 4~6 million consoles due to the RRoD. The RRoD was largely an issue that plagued the first-run machines that came out the first two years of the X360 being on the market, and had a 40% failure rate. The first two years, the X360 sold something like 16 million consoles, the first 60GB (circa 2007~8) models were slightly redesigned to be more durable limiting the odds of an RRoD, and the redesign eliminated the RRoD altogether.
MS replaced or repaired the majority of those RRoD machines, meaning that not everyone had to buy a new console. Since there were no numbers on this, I took a flat 50%--half of the people who had their console repaired/replaced by MS eventually had to buy a new one due to another RRoD issue.
Now, 40% of 16 million was 6.4 million consoles that had RRoD, and if roughly half of them broke again spurring a purchase of an entirely new X360, that'd be 3.2 million. I think the number was actually a little higher as RRoD issues continued to be reported up to around 2009, so my rough estimate hovers between 4~6 million.
Pretty bad, but in the grand scheme of things, the machine still would have sold well over 70 million units on its own, and that's pretty damn good. With the RRoD resells, that goes up to over 80 million.
This math is not accurate, I only wanted a baseline estimate when I looked into it.
@ericwithcheese2
I'm playing the Vita more now that I have the PS4 and PSN+ just keeps delivering so many great experiences. With any luck this year's E3 will give us some insight as to what, if anything, Sony has in store for it. I think they set it aside a bit to focus more on the PS4 to build up momentum for these crucial first two years as they saw the PS4 as vastly more important, which it is.
@Quorthon I think the RROD issue was embarrassing for Microsoft, and no doubt helped their install numbers. But to what extent, people will never know. I know people who had theirs repaired as well as people who just didn't want to go through the hassle of shipping and just bought a new one with the redesign.
I haven't heard similar issues with the Xbox One, so it sounds like this launch went at lot smoother than the last, although (to my knowledge) I don't think that 360 issue came up until a few years into its life cycle.
The 360 is still selling amazingly well for a console that is a decade old, and that's partially because they are still kicking out top titles for it. I'm sure the higher price point of the One plays a bit into it also. But the 360 was able to overtake the Wii in North America in the past couple of years because Wii's support, especially first party support, dried up so quickly. In fact, I'm still surprised to see sales numbers of Just Dance being in the top ten of sales for Wii over the past holiday season. That speaks more to Nintendo's dying third-party relationships over the course of the Wii.
But I went off on a tangent. haha
@evoxpisces - Yeah, that one even looks like a 3DS game. moreso than Monster Hunter or codename STEAM, Nintnedo always baffles me w/ it's schoice of console, though MH is on Capcom for the money. It probably would have been 1 player on 3DS, like Sonic Boom had different games on each, though Kirby could have been a lot closer, probably almost exactly the same.
@ericwithcheese2
Yeah, actual numbers are likely impossible to know, which is why I did the whole thought experiment to see if it could be narrowed down to a "likely" or probable estimate. 4~6 million in "extra" sales from RRoD issues sounds pretty reasonable to me, and I think most gamers knew someone who had one fail, given the 40% failure rate.
If you had 10 friends with an early Xbox 360 (from 2005~2007), 3 or 4 of them had RRoD. A (former) friend of mine had the RRoD, and he and I dismantled his X360 and repaired it according to instructions we found online, and lo and behold, the console worked again--for about another 6 months. Then he just bought one of the redesigned models.
MS was no doubt incredibly embarrassed by the thing, and they drastically overhauled their customer service to deal with it. My X360 was one of the first better designed (internally) to avoid the RRo--a 60GB Pro model from 2008--and I've never had any issues with it, and it was my most-played console of the generation. Granted, I also took precautions to prevent over-heating. I laid it on its side on top of a wire shelf so it had ample air flow on all sides.
I agree, there's something to be said about the strength and popularity of the X360 to not only survive the RRoD fiasco, but to also inspire so many modern industry standards and to still be selling well now. If it still has new releases this fall, it will have actually reached it's 10-year milestone. Damn commendable. The original Xbox lasted barely half that time, and the Wii barely survived 7 years.
@B64111980 Did you also work at a game store during the lifespan of the 360? Because I guarantee you that the system fails for the early models were very, very high. @Quorthon
@B64111980
Your first-hand anecdote is not factual data, and human memory is notoriously faulty and selective. For instance, when you remember something, you are not actually remembering that event, but you're remembering the last time you remembered it. The PS2 launched in 2000 and no doubt, your memory of that era has been heavily clouded.
Even then, again, your personal anecdote coupled with personal bias do not a factual statement make.
And yes, actually, I worked at Toys R Us when the PS2 launched, and I worked at GameStop and Best Buy during the X360 generation. The noted failure rate of the X360's early models was 40%. Suffice to say, I spent too much time at retail. Then again, what does this matter? I read video game news quite regularly and have had many friends with this hardware, as well as my own experience. I own a lot of consoles, and have never had one that was faulty out of the box. Frankly, the Wii was handily my least-reliable, most problematic console of the last generation. If I follow what you're doing, you should take that anecdote and assume that "all Wii consoles were faulty." But it was not at first, and merely had some issue develop over the generation.
Something else to keep in mind is that your judgement of which systems are actually faulty is going to be off-set by only mentally noting the consoles that come back, not knowing the number that were fine but broken by customers (so not actually faulty), and by not having any numbers to compare number sold vs number returned defective.
Clearly, had PS2's been as faulty as X360s, or even close, it would have been more widely publicized.
By the way, when I did work at Toys R Us during that PS2 era, I was the guy that processed defective returns.
I sense this has derailed somewhat. What was this article about again?
@B64111980
Ppfff ha ha ha! What an absurd comment! I never said anything about "knowing you" or anything to that effect. Your memory appears to be so faulty, it even invented charges I never made! As a reminder, I merely explained to you the science of memory. Human memory is incredibly untrustworthy and fallible.
The more sure of yourself that you are, the more likely you're very, very wrong. It's kind of like how scientists and intelligent people choose their words carefully and avoid solid statements about anything, because they understand the fallible nature of human memory--meanwhile, the fools are cocksure that "aliens built runways and landing platforms while mining for gold for fuel" 4000 years ago! It goes to the old quote from Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, and wiser people are so full of doubts."
Yeah, I remember stuff from the 80's, too. Like that one episode of Transformers where Seaspray turned into a human. Enough time had passed that I thought I might have dreamt it, but after getting the full DVD set, it turned out to be real and I only recalled that one piece.
By all means, feel free to look over this handy list of cognitive errors and biases--and just for you, I dropped straight to the memory part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases#Memory_errors_and_biases
Your comments are falling right in line with any number of those issues. You do not remember everything you think you do from the 80's or even the 2000's, and I don't need to know you to say that--that's science and it's the same for everyone.
Notice, I said I processed defective products at Toys R Us--I remember that because it was common and I've thought about it a few times. I remember "Sony" products showed up a few times, but not what they were, and it doesn't seem they occurred anymore than Nintendo products. None of that stands out, but I don't really remember. Because why the hell would I? I'm surprised I remember that much.
You might want to simmer down, there, "boy." You might learn something, which might be helpful, because you clearly don't remember anything--and even if you did, your anecdote is still not a fact.
@gcunit
I don't remember. Something about Firefly.
I'm kind of hoping Nintendo drops the Wii-U soon and makes it so that the new 3DS can connect to your TV where you can choose to play it on the TV or using the unit itself to play on. Also making it so that controllers can hook up to it through blue tooth for local multiplayer gaming. Maybe its time Nintendo went with just 1 system. One that portable yet can still be connected to a TV to play that way. If this New 3DS can't do it, then the next one More powerful and more capable! Its time for this Nintendo.
the coming together of home and portable consoles seems inevitable with all the hints NIntendo has dropped. Also the new 3DS and wiiU do seem like precursors for such a machine minus the unified development platform.
It has me wondering tho, to achieve the unified development environment that both the home console half and the portable console half would have to share would it require compatible or at least similar hardware? I don't have a degree in computer science so I can't definitively say that both halves would need to run the same type of CPU. However I am willing to speculate that they do need to be the same type and if that's true then I think ARM is the direction they'll go. X86 and power PC are plenty powerful but neither can match the battery life of ARM and it's not as if ARM stuff runs like poopitypoop off of mains power. One possible way around the graphical limitations of ARM could be to have the system be able to use the chipsets of the home half and the portable half process data in parallel and getting improved textures and resolution that way and making do with a bit less when playing games on either half alone. And perhaps it could achieve best performance by physically connecting together on a dock. With good, clever programming such a thing is theoretically possible.
Sounds like they basically want to make a Nintendo API, that's portable across multiple hardware devices. That could definitely make things easier for developers. I just hope they come up with a better, more synergistic, name this time for their brand; something akin to ipod and ipad that doesn't cause confusion.
I don't think Nintendo will be ready to fuse console and handheld devices on their next generation after 3DS and WiiU... They will likely try to create one more iteration of handheld and console that interact more with each other and establish first a more robust account and cloud systems.
@IceClimbers Oh wow I need that Pro Controller first time I've heard about it. Thanks for the info.
The next Nintendo portable will actually plug into the next home console therefore allowing you to play the portable games on your home console. It might also be a combination where when you buy the next gen home console the portable comes included. There will still be a separate line up of games for each but some form of dual purpose is almost guaranteed to happen. Just look how much the new 3ds is to the wii u controller layout.. it's nearly identical!!
First, the DS logo is on the left of box art, then 3DS on the right, and now New 3DS on top? What's next, bottom with the ESRB rating on top?
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