Saints Row Design Director Was Working On An Open-World Wii U Game

Ugh. I hate hearing news like this. It stings even more now that we know that it was intended to be a Wii U exclusive.

I'd love to see more open world games on Nintendo platforms, even if they are ports of past successes (I would love an HD port of Bully for Wii U or better, a port for the New 3DS). Heck, the DS had more open world games than the 3DS does. Hell, does the 3DS even have any open world games?

What defines an "open-world" experience? I would say A link between worlds is open world. Some might disagree...

I'm ok with anything like saints row not being on Nintendo consoles.

@schizor I agree. People just think that even twilight princess wasn't open world. But look at how big of a world you can explore. If it's not a gta game, then it's not open world according to modern gamers.

Uh huh... Wonder why they stopped it before it was allowed to flourish...

I generally tend to trust Nintendo's judgement on quality control and what their customers want.

Not a day goes by when I don't question the decisions of Nintendo of Japan's upper management

@zach you are not alone

@schizor : I would define games with a "living, breathing world" as open world. I would not consider the Pokémon games to be open world experiences, for example. While you do have a large world to explore, your actions do not affect the environment around you, and the NPCs each have a very limited number of flags (most NPCs will have 3 possible flags of dialogue), giving the game a sense of stifling linearity. This is not necessarily a criticism against the main series Pokémon games. I love them, but these limitations are simply part of their design and genre.

Ah well this sort of thing happens all the time in the game industry. Just business though I am curious as to what the game would have been like.

Incidentally, a Saints Row game for the 3DS was cancelled way back in 2011. Anybody else remember that?

There's probably a legitimate reason for this, so no need for anyone to feel bitter imo

@sillyghostly
yeah i remember that. i also remember how the audience at the nintendo press conference at E3 laughed at the announcement.
and a few seconds later the epic "ohs" at the metal gear solid announcement for 3DS

@Zach Considering we don't even know the full story, how can we question Nintendo's decision here?

Nintendo: "Lets ax as much as we can hihihihih who needs diverse games when we have so many awesome platfomers!! holla b*****s! YOLO?"

@TingLz Without much difficulty

@TingLz agreed nowhere in the tweet does it suggest that it was Nintendo's doing. It would be better to wait till we have more concrete information on this

@MrGawain

Wii Music
FlingSmash
Other M
Urban Champion 3D

Refusing to publish Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Fatal Frame, Dragon Quest X, Mother 3, Disaster: Day of Crisis, etc. in North America.

Limiting a masterpiece like Xenoblade Chronicles... to a GameStop exclusive.

I question where you blindly place your trust.

@Donutman

It always amazes me that Nintendo fans are the only group of "gamers" where a disturbingly large segment can be happy to be missing out on games and gameplay experiences.

Seriously, no other group out there picks up their console and says, "fewer experiences, please! I want less to play!"

@Zach another +1

@TingLz I agree. Gamers just assuming, I guess?

@Quorthon will you ever change this broken record? How many more times do we need to hear it?

@Donutman the term open world refers to literally the path GTA3 blazed. Not simply a big open world, but more so the idea of 'go do anything you want in this sandbox of possibilities'. Sure you could technically 'go do anything you want' in TP as well, but you were limited to 1/5th of the world from the get go until following linear objectives.

I put over 300 hours into GTA3 back in college, never once did I complete a single mission.

THAT'S open world.

@Zach I still don't understand how they are a profitable business in this modern era of gaming.

Dang.
I so wanted to play Luigi's Playboy Mansion 69.

Wasn't Mario enough:P

@Quorthon I love that you call out user's,but when someone calls you out!You don't respond and just walk away with your tail between your legs Mr.Real gamer.Don't just run when you get feedback of your comments that's pretty pathetic.

As much as I'm a SR fan, I can't really imagine a SR game on a Nintendo console... but maybe it is time for some bad reputation in form of Saints Row for Nintendo and seriously, I don't like what I saw so far for Devil's Third, but maybe this game is not my taste.

Gosh, I love those games XD

I'm not going to jump to conclusion. It could be someone at Nintendo, could be someone at THQ. It can even be someone at Microsoft. These days everyone hands play a role behind the scene.

Considering that Grand Theft Auto V didn't come out on Nintendo consoles (heck, NO GTA games have come out on Nintendo home consoles so far, and before you mention it, no, Body Harvest for N64 does NOT count) and was so much of an enormous success that @Damo had to write a column with plenty of foxes and sour grapes in order to cheer us up... yeah, you know where this is going.

Seriously, a sandbox game on the WiiU wouldn't have hurt in the slightest (especially if it's as tongue-in-cheek as Saints' Row is, given it's best known as "the antithesis to Grand Theft Auto"), but in the end the closest we got to this genre was LEGO City Undercover, which - in spite of its undeniable quality - basically was a morality-flipped GTA game with some platforming thrown in for good measure. Nintendo should have helped this game's development as they did with Bayonetta 2, but apparently not even the WiiU is enough for an actual sandbox game (on the other hand, the DS saw an actual GTA game in the form of Chinatown Wars, because money).

@Quorthon
"It always amazes me that Nintendo fans are the only group of "gamers" where a disturbingly large segment can be happy to be missing out on games and gameplay experiences."
You've got to back that up somehow. Are you not aware of how the masses approach gaming and how the masses are buying into Playstation and Xbox right now? I feel like you have this picture of people who buy consoles as a group of people that have gaming as their only past time and the primary focus of their life. That is not remotely the case. Most people are perfectly happy to be "missing out" on gameplay experiences because a few games a year is plenty. Look at the attach rates to consoles and consider those are averages.

Nowadays with the variety that is out there you have to be a borderline gaming freak to not be missing out on many significant gaming experiences.

@Zach I agree 100% . whilst we don't know the details to attach blame to a party on this, the list of games Nintendo has missed out on releasing for various reasons compared to the releases of sub-par quality they have praised is hard to look at. They make amazing games, nobody doubts this. They just don't seem to get key relationships running in their favour often now and pump out average games selling of the back of amazing franchises too often for my personal taste.

@midnafanboy
I don't see the point of calling out @Quorthon for not responding. I'd hope we all have lives with much more important things to do than hang out in the comment sections at Nintendo Life.

He has plenty of interesting things to say. Though his drum beating the same disputed points is tiring and he is often needlessly abbrasive and condescending he has many good points and contributes to the conversation and is undeniably someone who loves gaming.

Plus, how long did you give him? A couple minutes?

@aaronsullivan
This. Also, the NintendoLife column ("Damian tells you why he doesn't need GTA V", or whatever it was titled) I just mentioned in my earlier comment? On the brighter side of things, the whole "foxes and sour grapes" approach I alluded to, well, it applies to Sony and Xbox fans as well. They all say that Nintendo's own IPs are "teh kiddie!!!11!!11", but truth be told, while not necessarily mature, said IPs are fun, which is all that matters, which is why those fans wish they had "teh kiddie" on their own consoles (remember that fan letter to get Super Smash Bros. on the PSVita a few months ago? Yeah).

Besides, I also own an Xbox 360, mostly in order to play the same "multiplatform" games that Nintendo consoles oh-so-casually happen to miss out on (hence the quotation marks) except I buy them only when they're on sale. Nintendo games are still the ones that deserve the heftier price tags.

As for Quorthon, I just hope he's not Pachterkid's successor.

On the actual article. I don't see in that tweet where any blame was placed, but even if it was Nintendo, what are people imagining the reason for pulling the plug was? Given that Nintendo is publishing Devil's Third and published Bayonetta, I'd say that it's perfectly likely there were solid reasons we might agree with.

Hard to say, either way.

It must have been crap or something; otherwise why in the hell would Nintendo pull the plug on an almost complete open world game...

Even Nintendo hate Wii U and show utter contempt for its users. Probably more so than EA.

@kirk one day before production begins would not be an almost complete game.

@Nintenjoe64

Oops!

I read production to mean going into production of the Wii U discs.

If it was cancelled before it even started then that's hardly even news worthy

I've cancelled many games I never actually started but had ideas about. Some of which would have obviously been totally revolutionary and paradigm shifting...

@MrGawain except I want a new F-Zero

@schizor In this context, I think a sandbox city ala Saint's Row/GTA/Infamous/Prototype would be the case.

A bit of a shame, cuz I liked SR1 (not as much as SR2), even if it was a GTA clone. Wii U could use a game like that (watchdogs not withstanding).

@Quorthon except Xbox and Sony user don't get to play mario/Zelda/metroid games either. I own a PS3 and a pc if I want saints row, or whatever other games I miss. But lots of people don't get Nintendo consoles today. They missing out on more then I am. I also want to add I even waited for watch dogs to get it on wii u instead of PS3. I support 3rd parties even if it's a medicore game. I would have got it day 1 PS3 but I wanted gamepad support. And that's something very important to me and how I game.

@Quorthon

I agree, Nintendo does NOT listen to customers à lot of times... Is frustratingly annoying.

@fafonio

Ah, but do you want any new F-Zero or a good one?

Say what you will, Nintendo does have a very good track record for gameplay. I have a feeling if the plug got pulled on this, it wasn't the content that was in question but the gameplay.

@Donutman yet, they didn't say what kind of game it was. Could have been NOTHING like saints row dude.

For the record, I would rather prefer and open world space adventure with metroid then another GTA or saints row game.

I don't understand, why would Nintendo pull the plug? Its not like Nintendo consoles, let alone Wii U titles haven't come with M ratings before. I think more info is needed here.

@sillygostly Totally agree, nothing worse then people uncovering and showing of games that could have been. So many of these cancelled games always seem better then the crap most devs chooses to release instead. It's sad really. Wish devs had more balls with new stuff then playing it safe with same old poopypoop year after year.

@aaronsullivan

My point is more that, while the general gamer public is fine missing out on the occasional exclusive given their console choice, none of them outside of a group of core Nintendo fans, ever adamantly says they're happy to miss out on games or prefer not to have them anyway.

We have no idea what this open world game would've been, to so say you'd (general use, not you specifically) rather not have it is just asinine.

In my years of posting here, mostly on GameInformer, and briefly on VGChartz, or FlameChartz if you like, I have only ever witnessed Nintendo fans saying "I don't want it on my console anyway." From MS or Sony fans, usually a comment along the lines of "well, I wish this was on my system, too. Oh well." And it tends to end with an "oh well" because they still have plenty to play.

It's baffling to me that there are any gamers who would be happy to see games cancelled for their consoles or to spin it so they wouldn't want it anyway. Game designers are not ignorant of consumer comments--and why would I want to develop for Nintendo when there are fans with that sh!tty attitude?

Anecdote time: I had an X360 last gen and loved the hell out of it. This gen, I went with the PS4 as my primary^^. It's a bit of a bummer to me that I won't have easy access to Crackdown or Gears of War this gen, but I liked what I saw in Sony, they have previously never been my primary, and for the first time ever, preferred the Sony controller over the others. Finally, they redesigned the damn thing. I can deal with this loss. And then, I can deal with it even better when my girlfriend bought herself an Xbox One, so I'll just have to use her console. (Part of the reason I went with Sony was her giving me a Vita a year ago to add to my console collection, and since I subscribed to PSN+, it felt natural to move to PS4.)

I just don't get it. I haven't seen this among the Sony or MS fans. Just Nintendo fans. A preference for fewer games, than more games. I'm sure it may be a psychological knee-jerk reaction to missing out on certain games, but what a stupid reaction. It's okay to be bummed or even pissed that you're missing out on certain games. And it's okay to be pissed at Nintendo for some of it.

^^I generally buy Nintendo first, but given the lack of 3rd party support, I cannot realistically consider Nintendo platforms my "primary" as it will not feature many of the games I badly want. Like Fallout 4, Witcher 3, Mortal Kombat X, Street Fighter V, and Doom 4 for instance.

@Darknyht

Gyro controls in StarFox...?

The game hadn't even started development, so I wouldn't guess the gameplay was part of it. If anything, I'd probably consider the overly conservative nature as outlined by Dan Adelman recently. That probably killed it.

@Donutman

Here's something to keep in mind: To the average consumer, and the average gamer, they see Nintendo as putting out the same old franchises every single generation.

"Oh, more Mario games."
"Oh, another Zelda."
"Oh, another Mario Kart."
"Oh, more Pokemon."
"Oh, another Kirby game." (If they even notice it at this point.)

To the wider gaming audience, Nintendo is seen as not offering new games worth buying another Nintendo console. They don't see that they're even missing out on anything. I've had so many tiring conversations with people trying to explain this in Best Buy or GameStop or elsewhere online. The general perception is that, sure, they might be missing out on a Zelda or a Mario, but it's "just another Zelda or Mario" and to play slightly newer versions of games they played 15 years ago is not enough to justify a new console purchase when it doesn't (on the surface) offer much else.

This is why it's so important for Nintendo to be developing new IPs and new games. We're into the 3rd year of the Wii U before Splatoon arrived. It took over a year for Kid Icarus to appear, and even longer for a completely unique new game, Codename STEAM to appear on the 3DS. They simply aren't going to entice new customers with the same old games over and over again. They are only selling to an ever-shrinking core fanbase, and that does not create growth.

Remember, the Wii didn't sell because of Mario or Zelda. It sold based on a gimmick. What we're seeing now is evidently the modern standard for Nintendo--a distant hanger-on who cannot appeal to anyone but the same core that propped up the GameCube and GBA--an era and a console Nintendo themselves look back on negatively.

For what purpose?

Maybe it was for the best, perhaps the game just wasn't up to quality which most 3rd parties don't seem to care about. Don't assume that it was being made by the creative lead of Saints Row so it would be similar. Still those games need to be on Wii U

@BinaryFragger because third parties CLEARLY care about the opinion of a couple fans on a random nintendo discussion thread.

I do agree with your conclusion though; as much as I want something like this to happen, I doubt that that sort of game would do well on a nintendo console (look at GTA Chinatown).

@Quorthon there has been more evolution in Zelda in the 25 years it's been around then there has been in call of duty over the what 10 games in 10 years. Complain about 1.5 new Zelda games per console gen. I'll take link between worlds over assassins creed anyday. I played every AAA PS3 game and the only 1 I still love to play is dark souls. Everything else is just more blah rpg or fps. Prettier versions but not always better. Uncharted 2 was the peak for that series. Last of us is so overdone today. Little big planet is so original.... Halo was only successful because it started the online fps console gaming that I was already playing on Pc for years of quake and half life. And today what's left of halo or resident evil is a terrible shell of once it once was, and why do I need to play it. Watch dogs is blah in any system. I have resident evil revelations and every other 3rd party wii u game, and Instead I'm playing bayonetta 2 or hyrule warriors instead destiny on my PS3. Mh4 and mm are taking up my time now, while smash is in on wii u for a change. Knock it, but i have 4 people in my family and with as much as it gets used, we probably going to get a 2nd for my 13 year old room. We already have 3 3ds', so why not? But my son doesn't even use his vita instead choosing his iPod. Are there faults and gaps yea. My 13 year old and all his friends only play minecraft and call of duty. My youngest is just getting into gaming. He loves smash. We all still play games like wii sports on a bi weekly kind of thing. I wI'll get a ps4 somedsy. The only 2 games today i want are witcher snd blood borne. But there are more then 5 wii u games coming this year I want. I just don't see the point to upgrading to pay to play. NIntendo wasn't cool when i was a kid. Sega was. Nintendo isn't cool today. Xbox and ps are. But who will be there in the future, still making consoles? Nintendo. Ps now is Sonya future. Next gen gaming is going to be like cable tv, and Nintendo is like owning blue rays.

@Quorthon

You may have confused NOA who distribute games with Nintendo of Japan that actually make games. Japan actually made those games like Xenoblade, it's just NOA didn't think they were worth mass distributing (Which I wouldn't like to guess how they'd of sold). As for a game like Wii Music, I'm betting it didn't cost all that much to make and I bet it made it's money back (2.65m copies sold). This Saints Row-esque game however I expect would of had a hideous American sized budget that probably didn't match Nintendo's core audience interest, and I doubt would be an evergreen title like most Nintendo games are. I would far prefer Ninty to put money into a few sensibly budgeted Japanese titles that will continue to sell, than waste it's money on a fur coat- no knickers shallow game that people forget after 2 months.

Again, as I always tell you 'That's just my personal opinion'.

@Quorthon Yup, those were my exact thoughts when I got my Wii U! You really nailed it!

@AlexSora89 Watch Dogs for WiiU is pretty good for open world. I wish the online included free roam though

@Quorthon He said "quality control" not "decisions".
Also the last two were made by NoA...

@AJere
Awwww snap, totally forgot about Watch Dogs! Then again, the WiiU version came later than the others if I recall correctly...

@Quorthon
Nintendo players skew younger, maybe. They are less experienced and say stupid stuff sometimes due to unlearned lessons about sour grapes, etc. It seems you feel you have to rant and rave about it every time some youngster tries out his opinions on comment boards. :/ The way you often attack causes immature responses.

Sadly, it's not even just about young people but the entire internet of commenters who act without restraint or thought due to anonymity. Rather than add to the noise and cause a stir with needlessly argumentative and inciting words, I prefer to find common ground and be an example, myself, if possible. I don't always succeed, of course.

The particulars of the different types of childish behavior in different communities don't seem particularly important to me.

In my experience, there's quite a solid community of reasonable and friendly people here that will read and debate civilly. I hope you haven't missed that.

Tempted to talk more about all you wrote, but it will have to be another time.

So in other words Nintendo is still working their damnedest to make sure the only thing that sells on WiiU is what they develop and publish alone first or second party and anything else really isn't welcome to the party. To squash a day before production an exclusive third party open world game is madness.

Nice thug life cover to that game. I'd shiatcan that garbage in a heartbeat too.

@Donutman Then there is a possibility you are one of the people (and probably Nintendo too this time around) responsible for the great third party support we get

@Quorthon Just like the Conker game coming to X-Box One or that Crash game on the PS4. Every company has made/is making many mistakes. People need to stop treating companies like some sort of perfect group of people that never make mistakes. (This is in reply to your first post BTW)

Whatever it was, it was probably less broken than Lego City Undercover.

well at least we didn't miss out on Sonic Boom - said nobody ever

@MrGawain lol, don't be so naive. Nintendo nearly destroyed Rockstar (DMA) screwing them over by dropping the innovative open world Body Harvest at the last minute, extortionate licensing fees, history of price fixing and responsiblity for burning all 3rd party ties...Not to mention the lazy, cocky mishandling of the 3ds and Wii U launches.

Aww. Man.