In a period of gaming history that seems increasingly improbable with each passing generation, we often look back to the time when Nintendo's greatest rival was Sega. The house that Sonic built was at the peak of its powers with the Mega Drive / Genesis, which went head-to-head with the Super NES. It was Mario vs Sonic in a full-on contest, not the semi-friendly minigame shenanigans the term represents in modern licensed games.
Tom Kalinske was CEO for Sega of America in the early '90s, a key figure in the company in its strongest years. He left in 1996 and is often willing to share his thoughts on his former employers; in a DICE interview with gamesindustry.biz he explains that he relates Sega's failings in the console market as occurring over a sustained period of time. It may have all ended with the Dreamcast, but problems included incidents such as when Sega, like Nintendo, failed to complete a deal to produce hardware with Sony; the latter would go on to become a powerful force in the industry.
Sega ultimately bit the dust in the console wars, and Nintendo has long since continued its run in the hardware business; Kalinske believes that Sega had only itself to blame, rather than market forces alone.
It was not inevitable. It could have been avoided if they had made the right decisions going back literally 20 years ago. But they seem to have made the wrong decisions for 20 years.
One of the key reasons why I left Sega is when we had the opportunity to work with Sony, when [Sony Interactive CEO] Olaf Olafsson, [Sony Corporation of America president and CEO] Mickey Schulhof and I had agreed we were going to do one platform, share the development cost of it, share the probable loss for a couple years on it, but each benefit from the software we could bring to that platform. Of course, in those days, we were much better at software than they were, so I saw this as a huge win. We went to Sony and they agreed, 'Great idea.' Whether we called it Sega-Sony or Sony-Sega, who cared? We go to Sega and the board turned it down, which I thought was the stupidest decision ever made in the history of business. And from that moment on, I didn't feel they were capable of making the correct decisions in Japan any longer.
Kalinske did share his views on current-day Nintendo, providing some pretty balanced analysis. He's an advocate for the company utilising smart devices in a limited way as a marketing tool - including some games - but believes Nintendo should continue to play to its strengths with its own hardware.
I don't think [Nintendo] should give up hardware or consoles. I am surprised that they haven't formed a division to extend the IP. I'd love to play some of their games on my iPhone or iPad. It's really a form of marketing for them in a sense. They wouldn't even need to make that much money off it, but it would keep their brands relevant with the users, including people that are older, like me. So it seems to me it's a marketing mistake, but I don't think they should give up what they're doing because they're damn good at it.
Kalinske was once in fierce opposition to Nintendo, but clearly admires the company's work - even if the current market poses unique and significant challenges.
Let us know what you think of his comments on Nintendo. Do you agree that some games should be made available on iOS and Android as marketing tools, or should Nintendo stick with its plans for a Mii-centric app while staying away from game releases? Let us know in the comments.
Thanks to all that sent this in.
[source gamesindustry.biz]
Comments 89
"I'd love to play some of their games on my iPhone or iPad. It's really a form of marketing for them in a sense. They wouldn't even need to make that much money off it, but it would keep their brands relevant with the users, including people that are older, like me."
The day Nintendo makes their IPs available on iOS, is the day their portable dies. If their portable dies, so does Nintendo. So, no I cannot agree with this.
The only time I think I'd see Nintendo being on a mobile device is if it includes health related things, like a Wii Fit Pedometer app, or something that records your plays sessions. Besides that, I think Nintendo could expand into the mobile market, but only if it's done with a new original IP (not saying they should though).
No if Nintendo wants to survive they need their exclusives on there consoles and nothing else!Cause those games are the only thing that's keeping them afloat and the 3DS as well but still.
Even if there's a chance that putting some of their games on mobile devices would make their brand more relevant, it would definitely make their handhelds and consoles irrelevant tbh.
Get out of here with that iOS/Android non-sense! The day Nintendo actually goes through with putting one of their main franchises on the smart phone platform is the day they fail and die. If they want to keep their brands relevant, the last thing they would do is place their key franchises on platforms that are barely even fit for gaming.
The only things nintendo should put on smartphones
1 . miiverse
2. A wii fit pedometer app
3. A e shop app to alow people to see what is coming to the e shop that week and alow for pre buy
First, thanks to Sega bailing on Platinum Games Nintendo was able to step in and get Bayonetta 2, which was terrific.
Secondly the only thing Nintendo should do in the mobile space is support type apps; mii verse social app and some support app for pokemon perhaps like a pokedex.
This guy gets it. But i don't agree with mobile development, Nintendo games should be played on Nintendo systems. Nintendo could keep Sega relevant they just have to give up being independent. Not just Sonic but all lot of franchises Sega doesn't touch anymore people would love to play again but Sega doesn't seem to have any interest on anything other than milking Sonic dry. PC isn't going to keep them successful for long
@Tazcat2011 I would love to see a Pokedex app on mobile devices. But one that would be updated to reflect newer additions. Pokemon info on the go would be quite nice. It gets so hard to keep up with 700 of them.
@MoonKnight7 I beg to differ. If Nintendo was smart they would release an app that could work in conjunction with the N3DS. They don't have to release full games, just quirky stuff to attract more people to their games, lets say in a similar way how they plan to do with amiibo.
It makes me want to cry (or if I am strong enough, tear up) the thought of Nintendo abandoning their independence and going to mobile platforms.
I don't get SEGA at all. They are times where they do incredibly stupid decisions like Boom but then when games like Valkyria Chronicles are MADE by them, it just makes me wonder....just what is SEGA trying to tell us?
Nintendo shouldn't get out of hardware, but putting games on other devices if it wishes to continue selling ANY consoles is pretty stupid.
First of all thanks Tom for all the exciting times during the big sega- Nintendo battle. I still love my Genesis to this day and still is my all time favorite system. I really thought the Saturn would also be a market winner as well but we all know how that turned out! Same with dreamcast! Good times!
Anyway I Blame sega of japan for Sega's demise and I'm not sure which is dumber: sega japan killing the deal with sony to do it together or Atari's failure to complete the deal with Nintendo to market the Nes in America when they had the chance to do so! And We all know how that turned out too!! I miss Atari and Sega....those were the good ole days of retro gaming!! I'll say this - if Nintendo was smart they should look into getting sega AND Atari classics on the wii u eshop....but we all know how that's going!!
"Sony Interactive CEO, Olaf Olafsson" I chuckled.
On the topic of mobile games, I still think Nintendo is missing an opportunity by not having some sort of cross-buy. I think that if you buy a VC title on WiiU or 3DS, why not give that title to iOS and Android users for free? Maybe make it built into a Nintendo hub-app so the experience is very Nintendo-centric and promotes console ownership.
@JumpnShootMan I would settle for Wii U & 3ds cross buy! I wish they did a better job of getting games on the VC, still waiting for Metroid Zero Mission in North America.
@shinokami
He talks about extending the IP departments and specifically said, "I'd love to play some of their games on my iPhone or iPad."
He's not talking about apps or simple mini-games. He's talking about putting Mario on the iPad. Specifically, I believe he's referencing past games, such as virtual console games. I say this because later says that he's older and they aren't staying relevant with current technology.
Apps are fine. The whole miiverse thing Iwata keeps talking about, is fine. People on here talked about a companion app for Wii Fit. Those are all fine, but he doesn't appear to be talking about that.
I honestly think Nintendo could make some neat iPhone-focused games. Pokemon Shuffle would be at home there, and they could totally do a simplistic Kirby Canvas Curse sort of thing there. Even a Mario endless runner/platformer or a few VC games would work fine.
Whatever they make needs to also be available for the same price on their systems, but I think that they could make a few cool smartphone games...just not with their main dev teams or game ideas.
Some of these comments above frustrate me,it's always the same.Sure they need to be careful how they approach it but I just don't get why so many think them having a presence on Android/IOS will be the death of them,if anything the opposite is true! It's not as if we're going to be seeing Android exclusive 3D Mario's!
The Mii Maker app that Iwata was talking about (if that's all it ends up being) is laughable really.However a Mii Maker included as part of an all in one Nintendo App,like a magazine with videos,fun facts,weekly quizzes,Mii competitions,interviews with devs,Miiverse integration with notifications sent to your phone and so on,keeping it fresh and updated and a place you want to visit regularly for kids and adults alike then surely it can only be a benefit to them going forward! I think to really keep it interesting though they will need to have some sort of games on there also.Something similar to Android games like Brainwars or Quizup but with Nintendo trivia would be fantastic.I fail to see why that would be damaging to their handheld,again it could have the opposite effect! What about some sort of free to play Amiibo minigame without micro transactions but also having a much more fully fledged Amiibo game on the 3DS or Wii U at the same time and if you own either one you can level up ,share stats or get other perks for example?A lot of the newer generation phones have NFC also so that could even be used with the right approach as an alternative form of micro transactions.It wouldn't be my thing but it could certainly be a hit with the kids if doe right and considering the size of the mobile market a majority of those will have never played a Nintendo console in their lives.
The fact is,if you seatch for Nintendo on Google Play all you get is Nintendo emulators with instructions how to use and links directing you to ROM sites.It can be done in literally seconds,so again I fail to see why them doing something officially will be the end of them!
I think Nintendo should definitely test out the mobile market, as a marketing tool, basically he said what I've been saying all along. I still would be wary to what they release, and find something that brings people closer to their products rather then keep them on their phones.
They can put some classics on apps. They're not gonna to put their contemporary exclusives on there. So what is the big deal? That former Sega guy has a point. Selection is key here and they have such an extensive library. If they do those rom site/ emulator apps would be decimated. i say go for it. They can also put advertisement on some free to play games. What's the big deal. Ninty is taking risks now let's see this test case.
I kinda agree with some comments here.
If one day Nintendo decided to start with Pokemon shuffle for IOS, then people will start asking them to bring Pokemon x, y to Iphone. Then Fire emblem, Mario franchise. At the point, Nintendo board could be devided. They might feel reluctant to continue with Wii U or 3DS.
I like portable console. I replace my Ipad with a 2DS and now i know what real gaming supposed to be. Nintendo 3ds still sell like hot cake so why go in to market where all your competitors make games like "angry birds"? that just degrading.
The only thing I really loved in SEGA was Sonic, but mainly the GameCube and Gameboy era. Those were fantastic, but as the consoles went uphill, I'm guessing ideas went downhill and here we are at Sonic Boom which really isn't pulling me in. I wish they would create something similar to the GameCube and Gameboy games like Sonic Adventure, Advance, Heroes, and Battle. They all seem unique in their own right, but now, the creativity zone, took a wrong turn.
Also, if Nintendo were to do mini apps like Miiverse and such would be interesting, but if he means full on games, then the 3ds would be insignificant tbh. Another app idea (If anyone remembers) would be reviving the check mii out and vote Mii channels that were on the Wii. For Check mii out there could be a return of mii competitions and even distributing favorites via QR code to 3ds or Wii U. For the the voting mii, it's pretty self-explanatory, just voting for fun Nintendo topics and such. Or they could just bring these to the Wii U and/or 3ss all together or possibly both with some kind of connections.
There are already emulators for nearly every Nintendo device so why should they even bother?
As a Sega fan, I agree with what he said that SEGA made tons of mistakes, basically from 1995 on wards was a mistake with them, but as for the Nintendo thing, I think they should be a portable-only company. Their home consoles just don't sell enough or get enough games, but their portables always sell tons of units and get lots of great games! To be honest, I'm kinda surprised they bother doing consoles with how much of the market PlayStation and Xbox have in it, and how those consoles gaming has changed to be more like PC then it use to be when Nintendo was on top
@MoonKnight7 Except for Pokemon Shufle, that can go to phones.
Has Phantasy Star Online 2 been localized yet?
That was a rhetorical question by the way.
@shinokami yes. What a great thing Nintendo should be taking advantage of. I've totally had my phone out while playing Pokemon. That's what I thought I was getting with Pokedex 3D Pro but they never updated it. Furthermore, one can't run two 3DS apps at once.
'talks out'??
If Sega and Sony had joined forces to create the console, and probably all successor consoles, Sega would have disappeared eventually anyway as I have no doubt Sony would have eventually bought them out.
Also I agree Nintendo should remain producing its own consoles and hardware. Whether some of their older games become available on iOS and Android etc is a difficult one but I accept Nintendo's standing. It is their IP, their software, their decision.
If Sega and Sony collaborated on a console instead of the Dreamcast existing then I think in the end Nintendo probably would've ended up a 3rd party for either Playstation consoles or iOS/Android. Sure, the GC didn't do well financially but no SEGA 3rd party support for GC in addition to the Saturn + Dreamcast mistakes not existing probably would end up in Nintendo making the same mistakes SEGA made in this actual reality.
I still disagree that Nintendo should be offering full games on iOS/Android. That would seriously devalue their handheld line, their bread and butter. But I do agree that smart devices are a powerful marketing tool and should be utilized to their full potential. The suits in Japan are sniffing them and poking at them with sticks, trying to figure them out, and hopefully they eventually do.
They're about 10 years behind in internet years (the Xbox 360 had online down to a science day one back in 2005) and really need to close that gap. I see it as their biggest weakness right now.
All Nintendo needs right now is a App for Miiverse. I would love it to have it on my Note 4.
@MoonKnight7 He is speaking as the CEO that had the Game Gear, he doesn't understand a successful handheld.
In seriousness though, it's too bad the Sega-Sony merger didn't happen. I'd love to have seen Sega and Nintendo continue being the big two in the industry, putting the M$ brand to shame in the process.
I do agree they should be making a massive new disc based IP, every year. Have your Mario's and zeldas etc. But work on something like a cinematic game like the last of us, see where it goes, if it works, continue, if it doesn't, drop it and move on, spend the money.
Now I dont mean like Sony where they make loads of IPs each year and forget about them, just one a year. They need more real life IPs in my humble opinion, as the audience is completely different form even 10 years ago.
And I know they could come up with some amazing storie. Of they worked with different studios.
Think I'm just sick of Mario Zelda Kirby, bright colourful IPs all the time from Nintendo. Expand your catalogue.
PS: I only mean for home console. handhelds work amazing with Mario's et., but, different overall audience there to the home market.
I think the thing is it's not as straightforward as porting their stuff to the iOS App Store and then letting it naturally compete with every other title on there.
It would be up to Apple to decide whether to give a Nintendo title a marketing push on the App Store front page. Which of course they would, but my guess is Nintendo would not want to beholden to Apple's whim, while also allowing them a third of the revenue from their App sales and also increasing the attractiveness of competing iOS hardware by lending their prestigious brand to it.
So all that considered I think Nintendo might be waiting for a large sum of cash from Apple plus a definite agreement on what sort of marketing push they would get, and in turn give Apple exclusive rights on mobile devices to some of their IP.
Considering how much cash Apple has and how strong Nintendo's brands are though, and it would have to be a very large cash amount indeed, and there may lie the biggest hold up.
I'd love to see Nintendo work with Sega more in the future. Imagine Daytona 3, as a launch title for Nintendo's next console, rubbing shoulders with Mario on day 1. It may sound out there, but Nintendo's next console has to launch with something graphically awesome, fast, and loud as hell. I think Daytona 3 exclusive could be the game for that. Then top the Bayonetta 2 announcement by confirming Shenmue 3 as a Nintendo exclusive and watch the internet implode.
I never studied marketting, let alone lead such a big corporation as he did, and yet I've been saying the same thing he says. They have the know-how in software. They should just whip up a couple IP based, simple yet addictive games like they know how to do them, for Android and iOS, make them free even!! Just to make people aware of the brands again, keep them relevant. How many people who are gaming on phones yet do not visit online video game websites, know Nintendo nowadays for anything else than Mario and perhaps Pokémon? More people would flock to their hardware, methinks, if they had the magnetic attractive power that they once had. As a video game software developer (let's leave hardware out of the equation just for a moment) they have the most seductive catalogue of IPs in the world, it's a shame that, IMHO anyway, so few people are aware of that and are not enticed to buy their hardware to sample those.
They definitely shouldn't bring the same quality experiences on mobile devices as they do on consoles of course, but just do something to create excitement about themselves on those platforms so people would then see buying a Wii U has a potentially more interesting prospect.
Definitely agree that some limited amounts of older VC type games could help to boost awareness across generations; nostalgia for the older that may have stopped gaming altogether, and help push awareness for those younger that may only game on non-Nintendo devices. Include adverts pushing what's available on current Nintendo hardware in terms of modern software, I'd say it couldn't hurt.
Of course companion apps are well and great as well, but these types of apps are geared toward people who already own modern Nintendo hardware and aren't necessarily going to push new sales.
Of course the key is a balanced practice.
I don't want to see full nintendo games on iphones/androids, but maybe they could release demo games/apps and maybe some older console stuff, which all lead people back toward nintendo products and advertise them in the end. Most bored kids will download almost anything if it's free just to test it at least once, it could help the brand quite a bit.
@OorWullie Spot on, many just don't think and knee jerk reaction comment.
If Nintendo were to release VC games on iOS, how much would they be? 89p? Then I wouldn't be happy paying ÂŁ2.49 for them on my 3DS.
...and also, last night, I checked on my iphone's app store for some Nintendo games. I found some clones, but more interestingly, there are some official Pokemon apps. One of them can only really be considered a 'game', or as much of a game as most iOS apps are. 'Camp Pokemon', an official Pokemon app, has you searching for and catching Pokemon.
There's also a Pokemon TV app where you can watch Pokemon for free. Similar to the Nintendo Anime Channel they just launched, but with MORE episodes.
So, I guess, some could argue that there are already 'Nintendo' games on iOS.
I don't think it'd hurt if nintendo created a couple of IPs for mobile phone/tablet platforms only. For example, like Captain Toad was a spinoff of the Mario franchise, create a game that uses little known offshoot of a major franchise and takes advantage of the touch screen nature of these devices.
That way a separate experience can be had, and it would not encroach on Nintendo's primary platforms.
Seriously, lol? I dont think a Sega guy has any right to tell Nintendo how to run their business. Putting their games on Ios would just make people less inclined to buy their $200+ systems.
I cannot see the harm to Nintendo in releasing iOS/Android versions of their older games (I'm thinking NES/Gameboy here). If cannibalising sales is a concern then mirror the price in the eShop. It only needs to be a handful of titles: Super Mario Bros., Zelda, Metroid and slap in ads for the latest series entries. It doesn't matter if they sell well or not, it is just marketing.
Only on Apple.
The problem Wii U is having now is a lack of third-party support. People have different tastes and thus Nintendo cannot just cater the taste of its adamant fans solely. If people do not like Mario and Kirby then Wii U has no games to sell. Advertising their game on mobile phones can be an advertising strategy, if Nintendo can draw the line between mobile gaming and 3DS.
One good thing to praise Nintendo, however, is their reliance on indie games. As a result, the usual game drought is not apparent anymore on Wii U. It speaks the importance of gaining third-party support.
I'm not against Nintendo doing something on ios/android. It's not like they would take the entire Mario series and move it over there and then everyone would stop buying Nintendo Systems. I think too many people are looking at this as a replacement and not as a support or an opportunity to advertise their products. I always thought the COD app was kind of cool. I would be at work and think of a new setup that I wanted to try later, and I would fire the app up and make changes that would be synced up when I fired the game up later that night. It was nothing special, but I enjoyed using it.
Nintendo games on mobile devices? Um...no. If it's something like Miiverse, eShop, or maybe even Nintendo trivia I'd go for that but full on games? No thanks.
I think companion apps would be fine, perhaps even stretching to a small minigame type nintendo game for mobile devices (it may be good advertising and they could use it to advertise non used nintendo characters such as the ice climbers). But putting major characters on mobile platforms would be stupid. Sega has put loads of sonic games on mobile platform and I wouldn't buy any of them, particularly not that microtransactioned riddled crap lol. Even the good games like the original sonic games are NOT anywhere near as fun on a phone or tablet. They were designed for a gamepad and are much much better on a gamepad. Even segas latest project sonic runners (which again looks to be microtransaction riddled) looks similar to classic sonic gameplay, but for it to be easily playable on a touch screen they have pretty much made it into a timed jumping game -.-. Sega has so many good IP's left yet they ruin it by overusing sonic or constantly trying to 'remake' him. Nintendo haven't done that and I sure as hell hope they won't ever do it.
@whodatninja Tom Kalinske is the only Sega guy who has any right to judge Nintendo, since it was under his leadership that the Sega Genesis dominated the SNES for several years and was the number one console in the US during those years.
History tends to forget that Sega was the first company to not only compete with Nintendo, but beat them in the video game market.
Tom Kalinske was responsible for the aggressive marketing, the push to make Sonic the Hedgehog the pack-in game for the Genesis that replaced Altered Beast, and helping Sega overtake Nintendo for several years as the leader in the US(the Genesis also beat the SNES in much of Europe) which left Japan as the only region where Nintendo beat the Genesis until about 1995.
Tom Kalinske can't even really be blamed for the 32X and other things like that, since by all accounts Sega of Japan kinda pushed the concept onto SOA and made them do it.
And he was pretty much gone by the time the Saturn has launched, with much of his power being taken away from him.
Thing is, out of all of Sega's leaders, he had the best understanding of how to sell consoles and get people to put his games. In fact, it could be argued that he did a better job of leading Sega during that era, then Nintendo's leaders did, since the SNES lost much of the market share the NES has won during the 80s.
I understand history tends to paint Sega as a loser company that had a few lucky years with the Genesis, but they were once a very smart, and razor sharp company that had a very good understanding of the market and how to sell their products.
Tom Kalinske was a very big part of that.
At this point, I'd prefer Nintendo to go third party. Even their core fans don't use the consoles for anything more than a Mario and Zelda box. They aren't used as game consoles, just franchises boxes. Without stronger sales of 3rd party software, and without their consoles being treated equally to competing consoles, Nintendo's revenue can only go so far.
The rabid clamoring for remakes from their fans further damages the company. Nintendo's biggest sellers are remakes and clones of games they made generations ago, and this is not sustainable. They can't continue to sell new, expensive hardware as just a place to play the same old games again while all the competition is moving forward.
If this is all they're going to do, then what's the point of even wasting the resources pretending to be a console maker? The full interview compares Nintendo to Leapfrog devices, and that's a very good analogy.
It's a pretty difficult position that Nintendo is in ATM, many gamers are playing games on iOS or handheld devices, please spare me the "Not real games lol!"-routine, they're people playing games who aren't doing it on Nintendo-devices anymore.
If Nintendo keeps going as it is, they are going to lose market share to tablets (Give my kid a $200 3DS or my old tablet/phone? Ooh, difficult...), but if they move IPs to phones/tablets, they'll lose the one big thing that keeps their 3DS-line afloat: great exclusives (A Miiverse app is so hilariously insipid it doesn't really count as "Doing something on mobile", a Nintendo news app? Newsflash Nintendo: Tablets have internet-access nowadays!)
@Robotron2084
I'd just like to note that the reason you feel immersed is because the Prime games have minimal cutscenes, and almost all story sequences occur in-game, rather than cutting away to lazily tell you a story. On top of that, Samus's actions directly impact the story and events--the exact opposite of Other M, where she literally stood around monologuing while the story happened lazily around her.
Essentially, the Prime games were the proper way to do a story in a video game--player driven, in-game, player-dependent. Oh, and at no point was she treated like some stupid little girl that needed to "know her place." She was treated respectfully and rightfully as a threat by foes.
@MysticX
While mobile has definitely become a popular platform for gaming, it's not the only place people are going for games when they aren't playing Nintendo machines. The XBO and PS4 are both selling vastly better than their predecessors and they have effectively come to dominate the market precisely because Nintendo lamely "chose not to compete" which has had the effect of making them look irrelevant in the public eye.
Sales of the Xbox One and Playstation 4 are destroying the Wii U, fully illustrating that Nintendo's way of thinking is quite simply not what consumers want. And while this makes a very small core Nintendo fan super happy because they naively believe Nintendo is appealing specifically to them, that small group cannot support an entire corporation, and this will not make Nintendo strong.
@Robotron2084
In my opinion, the Prime trilogy gets as close to perfection as gaming can be. Those games do practically everything right.
Which is why it was so damn disappointing and painful to see how utterly broken Other M became.
@Robotron2084
Yeah, Prime 1 proved me wrong back in the day. I was of the idiot fanboy segment that believed Metroid should only be a side-scroller because I was too narrow-minded to understand how they could translate the Metroid formula properly to first-person, and within no time, I was utterly, happily proven wrong. They made the exploration better since it wasn't just "bomb all walls, hope for secrets" that defined all Metroid prior to the X-Ray visor.
That immersion, mixed with the atmosphere and exploration are what defined the Metroid franchise. And to continue beating this dead horse, is just one of many things they screwed up in Other M. Seriously, I know I'm beating a full-on decomposed corpse at this point, but that game was seriously an insulting disaster. The sexism was bad enough, but then to couple it with gameplay that was so un-Metroid, with empty gameplay, lazy exploration, and zero atmosphere was just a slap in the face.
I'm totally with you--I'd love to see what Retro could do if unleashed to their own creativity at some point. I really hope we get to see their new game at E3 this year--as I have little interest in yet another Zelda game, and gyroscope StarFox does not sound appealing to me at all.
No.
I've come to realize that Nintendo has pushed a lot of "new" on the Wii U. Nintendo has so far published or announced: Nintendoland, Lego City Undercover, The Wonderful 101, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 1 & 2, NES Remix, Splatoon, Devil's Third, Mario Maker, Project Giant Robot, and Project Guard. That is a lot of new (or unique) IP.
They also seem to be pushing a lot of different IP on the Wii U: Xenoblade Chronicles, Pikmin, Fatal Frame (unfortunately JPN only), Kirby, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Game & Wario, Mario 2.5D, Mario 2D, Zelda, Wii Fit, Wii Party, Wii Sports, and Mario Kart.
That is a stunning amount of content and variety. And it all has been released at multiple price points. To the best of my knowledge the Wii U is the only console putting $30, $40 and $50 titles out there in retail along with the $60 games. Then there are the $15-20 eShop titles and $5-11 Virtual Console offerings. I think if they were a little more aggressive in getting the Wii eShop and Virtual Console releases out there they would have a unbelievable value to them (and let's be honest they really only have control of 5-10% of the entire NES, SNES, GB, GBA, N64 catalogs, so there is a limit to what can be released without agreements).
@Quorthon My one fear of Nintendo going 3rd party is that they'd experience a mass exodus.
Picked up Metroid Prime Trilogy when it was $10. Great so far. If only I could find the time to play it...
@MoonKnight7 What if they only put their NES games on phones?
@Darknyht
Project Guard and Giant Robot are not necessarily new IPs or even games. They were tech demos used to pad E3 last year, and the only thing we know about them is a one-off hint that they may just become part of the new StarFox game.
They also published Ninja Gaiden 3, but they don't own that, Devil's Third, Lego City Undercover, or Bayonetta.
What has the world come to when people question whether or not a company should give up because they have only sold 9.1 million of their product to date (Wii U)? there are plenty of companies out there who would love to reach even a million buyers...
@IceClimbers
If they continue on the route they're on now, they'll have a mass exodus anyway from not having enough revenue to continue. Besides, the company could stand to lose some of the people--particularly in their management.
As Nintendo fans are more willing to buy remakes (like MM3d, OOt3D, Wind Waker, etc) and predictable sequels (Mario Kart, Mario, Pokemon, Zelda) than new or original titles, or 3rd party games, they're effectively creating an environment where the company can no longer grow, expand, or thrive. I don't expect Xenoblade Chronicles X to make back the money spent on development, and I don't expect Codename STEAM, Splatoon, XCX, or Devil's Third to outsell a remake of an N64 game that was already fully playable on the Wii and Wii U. Honestly, an N64 game. That was already fully available and playable on Wii and Wii U. That should make anyone sad.
The majority of Nintendo fans have shown that they are uninterested in most games that don't have Mario, Zelda, or Pokemon on the cover. They're free to spend money how they wish, but to buy in this way and expect the company to continue making successful consoles is downright moronic.
@Darknyht pointed out some decent variety that Nintendo offered on the Wii U so far, but how many of those games sold well? Mario and Zelda, and that's it--and one of those was a remake. That is not sustainable.
It's a point I've been trying to make for a long time--when even Nintendo fans are treating Nintendo machines as just "Mario and Zelda boxes," this is a recipe for disaster and it guarantees that, eventually, said console maker they feel they are supporting will have to stop making consoles.
Believe it or not, when you aren't supporting third party or indie on the Wii U or 3DS, you are actually not supporting Nintendo.
First of all, no, they shouldn't put games on ios devices. Second, glad to see someone who knows that Nintendo going third-party would be a bad idea.
@SteveW
Your exceptionally vague statement would seem to be missing the point entirely.
For instance, Nintendo considers the GameCube, by and large, as a failure which forced them to take desperate actions with the Wii that led to limited, short-term success.The Dreamcast and Saturn were also considered failures--and the Wii U is selling worse than both the GameCube and Dreamcast.
For that matter, the 9.2 million in sales Nintendo now has for the Wii U was their original target for winter 2013/2014, and led to almost three years of constant losses.
@TruenoGT
Very sensible stuff. A lot of Nintendo fans seem scared of them doing anything different though outside of the same franchises repeated over and over on hardware that sells less and less. It's not sustainable.
@Tazcat2011
I'm not sure Sega dropping support for Platinum is Tom Kalinske's fault given he left Sega in 1996
@Robotron2084
Ahh, I hope there are traditional controls. I'm not swinging the GamePad around to play that.
I think the main ting they need to do with future hardware is make sure it's raw power is at least on a par with it's contemporary systems. They should then allow the big selling 1st person shooters etc to be produced for it plus all the great Nintendo exclusives. They would be untouchable imo.
Sega Genesis was great, Saturn not so much but I thought Dreamcast was revolutionary, alas it was ahead of it's time though. SEGA ' S biggest mistake was repeated hardware launches, Genesis followed by 32X and SEGA CD, Saturn and Dreamcast all launch much to close or often. Nintendo is starting to launch too many portables, 3ds, xl, 2ds and now the new 3ds. I thought Wii U was a bad name but new 3DS is just ridiculous. I love Nintendo and want them to do well but this Co fusion created by these names just isn't helping them at all. Wii U is my favourite console of this generation but people are flocking to XBONE and PS4 because they believe they will find the games they want there. Wii U certainly has a better current lineup and even this year is looking good but there is too much uncertainty for Joe Blow to purchase one. Nintendo needs to unify other their account system and their messaging. I don't want Nintendo games on tablets but a proper Pokedex that interacts with the games, a Wii fit U app, integration with their games or mid verse apps are all welcome. Nintendo isn't going bankrupt anytime soon but it would be nice for them to catch up to the rest of the competition. Voice chat while gaming with friends, online leader boards and account unification are top of the list in my opinion.
@Quorthon I believe Project Giant Robot has been scheduled for release this year. Project Guard will probably do the same the second half. But I expect both to be eShop releases and new IP.
I apologize if I made it seem like Nintendo was in control of those IPs. The point is that Nintendo has gone out of their way to ensure there is variety on their console, even to the point of paying to put it there. Yet, there is a limit to it, as you pointed out, in that they cannot keep releasing poorly selling titles.
I am not sure what else they can do to encourage gamers to purchase outside their comfort zone and try something different. This is even more difficult when there are two other consoles and PC gaming that is large enough to cater to these genre preferences year round. As I've said elsewhere, their situation is not helped by the 3DS and Wii U effectively competing with each other with content that is too similar.
I see Nintendo more as a beloved grandmother, kindly making delicious cookies in her oven. She charges $2 for them, and $1 for accessories, like milk. Her neighbors Sonya and Mark&Sofia put whiskey in theirs, and charge $30 for the accessories, like proprietary...cups, and season passes to more cookies. The whiskey is to make the cookies MATURE, they say. For adults! Yet, all you ever see eating them are alcholic frat boys. Grandma Nin's cookies never grow up, but they never make you feel like buying a Tapout hat, either.
Grandma Nin is happy you like her cookies- she's been making them the same way for 30 years. And although your tastes change over time, the nostalgia, the quality, the family-friendly nature of her cookies never lose their appeal.
Unfortunately, come the holidays, Grandma Nin never knows how many cookies to make. Sometimes she makes square purple ones, and they don't do as well compared to the black chocolate S2 cookies Sonya makes. Other times, she makes small white ones, and everyone in America owns at least one.
The smaller one, the dual-chipped cookies, does insanely well. Several years later, the 3-chipped cookie does well, but sells 1/3 as many. So, she makes too many one year, at too high a price, and has to give it away much cheaper just 3 short months later. In fact, she actually lost money on ingredients. Too much compeition from these new, casual cookies- bite sized, 99 cent pieces of chipsAHoy garbage that taste like angry birds and farms.
Grandma can't adapt to this changing world of low-quality shovel flatware, so she does what she can do best- makes quality cookies at a reasonable price. Sure, it took her way too long to get online, and Voice Chat is way beyond her- don't try to Skype your grandma, kids. Just drop by, or send her a letter.
As for the action figure line she made, based on her favorite cookies, and yours?
WHY ON EARTH IS MARTH, A CHARACTER FROM THE LOWEST RATED AND LEAST SUCCESSFUL FIRE EMBLEM, SEELLING FOR 60 EFFING DOLLARS ON EBAY
Grandma Nin shouts.
It's not her fault she keeps selling out- she had no idea people would scalp so viciously her precious little cookies in the shape of italian plumbers and friendly dinosaurs.
@Quorthon I don't know, some of those developers seem pretty content where they're at, particularly Takahashi and the people at Monolith Soft. Granted, that's most likely because they only have to focus on one platform and Nintendo gives them creative freedom.
Xenoblade Chronicles sold fairly well I thought. About 800k isn't too bad. Yeah, it might seem like a flop given the 100m install base of the Wii, but the actual userbase at the time likely wasn't even a fourth of that.
Will be interesting to see which sells best: Splatoon, XCX, Devil's Third, or Codename STEAM. My bet is on XCX honestly.
Pokemon is sort of a weird one. It has virtually no effect on the home consoles, but is the killer app of killer apps on the handhelds. No other franchise can sell hardware the way Pokemon does. There's a good number of people who will even ignore Mario and Zelda and only play Pokemon on the thing (that number is shrinking I believe). Thankfully, Nintendo's handhelds actually have 3rd party support, even if it is pretty much all Japanese.
@electrolite77 I wasn't blaming him, only Sega. They were a great company back in the 90's; we had a Genesis & a Super Nintendo back then. Both were great.
@Quorthon
Nintendo doesn't consider the Gamecube a failure, it was the only console that generation that made a profit and it was a huge profit. Microsoft lost over 4 billion on Xbox and Sony lost as well. Gamecube was a huge financial success. Do some research and quit assuming that just because Gamecube sold less consoles that Nintendo lost money, Nintendo made a ton.
The Gamecube forced Nintendo to take desperation actions with the Wii? it's called innovation... and it didn't take long for others to try to copy them.
@Tazcat2011
Ah my apologies then. I misread your post, very sorry.
Yeah Sega were brilliant back in the 90's, so many good games and the Dreamcast should have been a runaway success, it was so good. Unfortunately they just got so many things wrong on the business side. I found Sam Pettus Service Games book to be a great read on the subject.
@electrolite77 Thanks for the tip on the book I will have to read it.
@SteveW
Oh my, I can't even begin to calculate the ignorance of your statement. The Xbox did indeed lose a colossal amount of money, but was profitable well before it was replaced. To even pretend that the PS2 was magically unprofitable could not be more foolhardy statement.
No, the GameCube was not the only profitable console of the generation. Not even close. Besides, the early loss was part of Microsoft's broader plans, and it worked almost exactly as they had planned.
I also never said the GameCube lost money. I said Nintendo considers it a failure, which it every other way it was. Nintendo lost considerable market share and ultimately resorted to literally selling it as a companion piece to other consoles. They had fallen a long way from the leadership position they once held. The GameCube ended with only 8% of the market. That's quite a fall from the 80% that they controlled with the NES.
Please, next time respond to what I actually say, not what you invent. That's called creating a strawman argument.
@IceClimbers
I also think XCX will handily outsell Splatoon and STEAM, but that all of them will be grossly outsold by a remake of an N64 game.
My point about XC's sales has always been that, on any other console, it would've been a million seller easily. For XCX, it's been in development for 3~5 years, and that's sure to cost a pretty penny, particularly for a title of it's size and scope. I also can't help but wonder if the XC audience is actually all on-board with the Wii U, which would seem highly unlikely given sales of the console.
A huge game like GTA costs $100,000,000 to develop now. I'll play fair and note that no licensed music is in XCX and we'll just safely estimate that it may cost $50,000,000 to develop (though I believe this is low and development costs are likely higher). It has to sell 833,333 copies to barely break even. It's hard to find actual sales numbers for XC, and VGChartz is notoriously unreliable. Even taking their numbers, XCX will have to sell better on a console with fewer sales to break even--in a world where it has an unrealistically low $50,000,000 development budget.
I'm really excited for the game, but don't see it being profitable. Nintendo likes to remain tight-lipped on this so they can avoid admitting failure, so we'll likely never know until a decade rolls by without another sequel. Plus, it has new games with Yoshi, Mario, StarFox, and Zelda to contend with.
The vast majority of Nintendo fans will choose those security blankets over a daring new title any day. To ensure XCX's sales, Nintendo should delay Zelda.
The upside to XCX's sales, however, is that it is unlikely to be a GameStop exclusive.
They can't market to mobile gamers well if there's no games to play, so at the very least put some eShop titles up. I do think that some of the retail games should stay exclusive to Nintendo hardware though.
@Quorthon I don't think comparing Wii U and 3DS titles together provides much information. That said, I do think Majora's Mask 3D will be the 2nd highest selling 2015 Nintendo title where the first is the inevitable unannounced standard Pokémon RPG for 3DS.
Regarding Wii U and specifically XCX, I think when it releases is very important. Early-Mid July would work best as the summer is generally when most holiday is used so you could actually make a lot of progress. I'm contemplating whether to actually buy it if the release date ends up being after late August because I honestly don't think I'd have the time to actually make any real progress.
I miss Sega consoles. I wish they were still around. Dreamcast died much to early.
@Quorthon
Show me one quote where Nintendo says they consider the Gamecube a failure. Sounds like you are the one inventing things.
Who cares if the Gamecube only had 8% of the market, profits do not revolve completely around market share, it's more complex than that. Selling 22 million pieces of any product and MAKING MONEY on each unit is a success. Thanks for reminding me why I stay away from message boards...
@Quorthon The problem of Nintendo consoles after N64 is that no one outside North America and Japan (and perhaps Europe) talk about them anymore. Wii U is not popular outside these regions, as if it were dead. Everyone is raving xbox and ps4. Nintendo does not even have distributors outside many of those regions.
I think a sapport app or something kinda newish would be good. Like the pokemon card game. that would(is?) awesome and would actually have a reason to play games on iOS format. a new IP on there would be cool too, like Kirby: the Rainbow Curse would have been an awesome move concidering the touchpad only of iOS. or something to the effect of that
@leo13
"What if they only put their NES games on phones?"
I had to really dig for this, so I hope you appreciate it.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/12/talking_point_moving_to_smartphones_is_not_the_answer_for_nintendo
The article I've referenced fully illustrates how difficult the smart phone market is. It isn't as simple as posting a game, and watching the money roll in. Personally, I find this to be one of NL's most thoughtful, and professional articles. Now, it doesn't mention VC on smart devices directly, however, if you scroll to comment #20, @ThomasBW84 addresses the problem with that.
Basically, it is a very, very slippery slope. If you start with NES games, logically, people will start to demand SNES games, and so on. It strips away any potential sales from Nintendo consoles, particularly, the portable would suffer the most. Need I remind you, that the portable is Nintendo's biggest strength, even in it's darkest of days.
It's best to stay away from it... far, far away.
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