Retro

Topic: ActRaiser 2 - The Most Despised Ninty 16-bit Sequel Ever

StarBoy91 · 2014-05-24T05:50:29+00:00

The following thread is brought to you by: A passionate retrophile This thread will be dedicated to what I personally consider to be one of the most hated Nintendo 16-bit games of all time (next to Drakkhen , Lillehammer '94 , Bubsy ..... 1 (no one likes 2 in the slightest, not even me), et al). Now, before anyone says anything, I'd like to point out that no, this game is not perfect by a longshot; in fact, I hesitate to say that it's great. But honestly, I don't think this game is that bad, and I think there's more good to it than people give it credit for. Okay, so the problems first. First of all, the retconned plot; in the first game it was Satan/Tanzra who cast God/Master in a deep slumber in a big battle long ago, therefore having to put up with the former's forces once he wakes up. In ActRaiser 2 , Satan/Tanzra led a coup against God/Master, and so the latter defeated the former, but despite that Satan/Tanzra's forces have vowed vengeance wreaking havoc in the world. So really, the outcome's the same no matter what happens; and how does this fit in the ActRaiser continuity? It doesn't. Another setback was the fact that it eviscerated town simulations in favor of complete action, which angered followers of the original (and micromanagement fans). There's the difficulty too, but more on that later. The final problem was that it's not an ActRaiser game; the only things connected were the main protagonist and antagonist, the Heaven/Sky Palace and Hell/Death Heim, and the title (which doomed this game from the start). Ignore the captions, these screenshots were captured a long time ago by me So given that there were these offsets (not to mention Yuzo Koshiro's less than stellar score considering his track record), what is there to like about this game? Well, for starters, it looks pretty. After Actraiser / ActRaiser and SoulBlader / SoulBlazer , Quintet upped their game (figuratively speaking) with gorgeously detailed and in-depth visuals. Examples are the golden castle of Stormrook where it begins outside with the moon above a blue forest backdrop, and then once you get inside there is gold sparkling everywhere even as you travel (the dragon boss is even covered with gold, even when there's gold all around him). Another one is Tortoise Isl. where it's all submerged underwater (kind of like Atlantis) and you get to see the depths of the ocean the farther you travail; the Demon's Cave adorned with spiderwebs lingering in the foreground also looks good with the ants whose heads were inspired by the late H.R. Giger's xenomorphs. Ants with Alien -like xenomorph heads, how can anyone not like that? That is just the coolest thing ever! But anyway, the bosses themselves look good as well (the aforementioned gold dragon, the flame boss in the volcanic area, even Satan/Tanzra himself). I thought the sword controls were implemented better (no more small delay before every swing, you can lunge your sword to your heart's desire) and were given more variety. The magic was given more range depending on how you were positioned and the fact that God/Master got wings to fly with was neat too but could be a detriment to your fall if not used wisely (don't want to slide upon landing on the ground, even on small platforms? Don't worry, you just need to hold down long enough so you won't accidentally fall off the edge). There is the difficulty that I should talk about. I don't know if anyone's noticed, but despite the dark and serious theme ActRaiser 2 could be a bit tonally incoherent; God/Master, the areas, and the major bosses look really serious and detailed while the minor enemies and mid-bosses just don't mesh. I mean look at this Picasso ghost for instance: that's not intimidating, that's just silly! Also, unnecessary Streets of Rage -like starburst effects when the sword makes contact tend to take you out of the game at times too One of the major sources of hatred for this game lied in the way that it challenged gamers. Now I think I get where Quintet was trying to go with this, but most gamers thought that it was frustratingly hard and some claim that it's, for lack of a better word, impossible. Part of the fault may lie in the area design, but think about it for a second. You're a heavenly deity sent down to Earth to help those that believe in you and stop any major threat like monsters, and you know that it's not going to be a cakewalk. That's precisely the point and part of what makes this game for me personally: playing the role of God is not an easy one (which Quintet captured so perfectly that it's a little sad that it could not have been implemented in a better game). You will face a lot of challenges on your way, you will have to get back up no matter how many times you get knocked down, and you will succeed if you keep trying. Perseverance, patience, observance, and steady pacing (not rushing) are key; yes it can get a bit frustrating at times, but if you have a strong will then anything is possible. That's not to say that it isn't hard (it is; especially on the hardest difficulty), but nowhere near as impossible as its often clamored to be. And once you get to the end, once you manage to finish, if you're willing, the weight gets lifted on your shoulders and you'll feel rewarded, making the trek all worth it ( especially on Hard mode, there is a beautiful-looking scene in the end). If there's ever an ActRaiser 3 , which I highly doubt at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if a centaur midboss happened to be in it There is a high-score aspect, but it is completely pointless (you only enter your name after you beat the game, and you'll always end up at the top). So really, that's just a moot point. I liked how ActRaiser 2 took risks with its darker theme and the way that it presented itself (including the representations of the deadly sins), and here's a positive you'll rarely hear about: passwords, which in my opinion was a better choice of continuing your progress than through that one (emphasis on "one") save file in the first title. With the original game if there were people to wanted to play it, an individual would have to wait until another individual finished the game in order to play it themselves. And really, who wants to wait? It may have been an early Nintendo 16-bit title, but considering that Super Mario World had three save files, Pilotwings had a password system, and anyone could play F-Zero at any time, Quintet just up and did not handle this right by comparison. ActRaiser 2 , on the other hand, does not require one to finish the game in order for the other to play it (and with passwords there is an advantage, as regardless of anyone's progress you could always keep your own). The harder the difficulty the more silly-looking enemies and awesome-looking bosses to wage battle on I do have my own quibbles with this game, and I do have caveats about ActRaiser 2 , but I personally like it for what it is: an action game. Not sequel, because as a sequel to the original it's not really good, but as a game on its own I think it's got a lot going for it. Gamers tend to forget that the first game wasn't perfect either (whether it be the pure and challenging Japanese original or the localized edition with significantly dumbed down difficulty) and as overexposed as I personally find Actraiser / ActRaiser to be (if not for the fact that it gets more coverage, acclaim, and actual rereleases while the other Quintet games remain SFC/SNES-exclusive and are left behind I wouldn't feel this way; you'd think that demand would be equally high for all these games but oh no, "let's not do the sensible thing and give current-gen gamers a chance to experience these wonderful games; just give them ActRaiser and nothing else, because we're sorely under the impression that that's the only Quintet title worth giving a damn about!"; whoever's got the license, they don't care anymore (think back to '07), they just don't), I kind of understand why it's got the following that it's got. It was a bit of a new experience at the time, and even though the platforming segments weren't that special, what made the game in the end was the micromanaging town simulation segments (and the take on the God-like system was something that was rarely seen and experienced before) which left a stronger impact despite its much lighter tone and the package's brevity (also, Koshiro's soundtrack in the first was memorable). ActRaiser 2 , I feel, was a victim of expectation. It's sort of like the first two Superman movies with Christopher Reeve, and what a huge impact it's had on movie-watchers and comic book fans over the years considering their high size and scope; when Superman III came people were expecting a hit, only to find that it wasn't really on par with its two predecessors. But if you take into account the impact Superman and Superman II had on audiences, regardless of whether the third movie would've been good or not, it was going to be disappointing no matter what because the first two movies were really good. Same with the game; the first Actraiser / ActRaiser was a huge hit and scored well with the public and the critics (even though it's the prima donna of Quintet games, and I should get over this... I'm the only one that I feel has noticed this, that's why I sound upset about this) and no matter how good or bad ActRaiser 2 was going to be, it would've disappointed no matter what because the impact the first game left was insurmountable by comparison. You can make a more challenging ActRaiser , and you can push the boundaries, explore something new, and even take risks, but take away the element that made the original what it was and you're left with an ActRaiser in name but not in soul. It's not as good as the original (well, the Japanese Actraiser at least) but I like to play ActRaiser 2 once in awhile, and I can appreciate its good qualities because it's obvious that Quintet put a lot of effort in this one just like they did the rest (it's in naming it " ActRaiser 2 " that they fumbled and messed up). But while I appreciate the effort that was put in this game, I understand how it would drive away and upset people (fans of the original included). I'm not saying it's a masterpiece by any means, but I do think that it's worth giving a look on its own merits. Don't think "sequel" if you're playing or want to play this, think "game", because I guarantee you that you're less likely to be massively disappointed by treating it as a game than you would if you were treating it as a follow-up. It's not a bad game, but compared to say Xandra no Daibōken: Valkyrie to no Deai (someone had to say it) it makes ActRaiser 2 look like a piece of cake by comparison. Make of it what you will. I wanted to get it all out of my system. I'm certain that there are some people out there like this game as much as I do, maybe more (if not less); much like its got its detractors (which I get, it's not for everyone). I'm curious to hear what others in this forum have to say about this game, I wouldn't even mind a discussion on it if someone asks. In the meantime, it's late. To each their own TL/DR - ActRaiser 2 is a bad sequel but a good game on its own imo

Posts 21 to 33 of 33

21
ogo79
Wed 28th May 2014

is this a good game to play without garments on?
what isnt a good game to play without garments on?

the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)

22
KingMike
Thu 29th May 2014

(I probably mentioned this before but)
Super Pinball for SNES is a great game because, as Nintendo told us, you have to go to an arcade and wear clothes to get more realistic pinball action!

KingMike

23
StarBoy91
Thu 29th May 2014

@ogo79 - ummmmmmm,... whatever works for you?

To each their own

24
ogo79
Fri 30th May 2014

KingMike wrote:

(I probably mentioned this before but)
Super Pinball for SNES is a great game because, as Nintendo told us, you have to go to an arcade and wear clothes to get more realistic pinball action!

now this is pointing me in the right direction!

25
StarBoy91
Sun 8th Jun 2014

Just wanted to resurrect this thread in case anyone wanted to say anything more about ActRaiser 2 or wanted to contribute in some way. If there's anything you'd like to add up, feel free to speak or forever hold your peace.

To each their own

26
Jamestown
Tue 10th Jun 2014

You could argue that Zelda II threw out pretty much everything that made the first one a success too, even more so than Actraiser. I have owned both Actraiser games though and I can't really see what's so great about the first one besides it's generally decent playability. It seemed like one of those where they try to combine 2 genres, but they don't do either in a spectacular way, the action scenes were just a little awkward, and the sim parts were too simple and linear. At the time AR2 came out & the magazines were hyping it, I thought "Yay they finally got rid of the sim parts in favor of better action scenes", but the controls seemed so overwrought that it lacked the 'pick up and play' aspect that I enjoy in adventure games like that.

Jamestown

27
StarBoy91
Wed 11th Jun 2014

Yeah, ActRaiser 2, as unfortunate as it sounds, is not a game for everyone. It could've been great, and as I've said before it has the potential to be great, but it's sadly hindered by its own blemishes. I personally didn't mind the difficulty so much, and while I admit that it can get frustrating sometimes, I think the crusade is worth taking if you persevere. It's certainly not the hardest game I've played on the SFC/SNES;... that would be Plok (I still struggle to beat its Normal mode; ActRaiser 2 gets the edge for me because at least I could beat all its difficulty settings as opposed to just one like in Plok;... oh, and it's a one sitting game), The Addams Family: Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt (I blame the loose controls and steep difficulty here;... oh, and it's a one sitting game), and even Xandra no Daibōken: Valkyrie to no Deai (which I'm starting to regret having played because of its demanding difficulty coupled with a darkly grim and depressing story; that's not a good combo, Namco, that's just a recipe for disaster... a depressing disaster; but at least it's not a one sitting game). But like I said, ActRaiser 2 is not for everyone, and while I don't expect it to get lots of appreciation, I do respect people's opinions on it (which for the most part are highly understandable). To each their own.

But hey, look on the bright side: at least it's got passwords and not a single save file like a certain Quintet title which preceded it. HINT! HINT!
_{And before anyone takes offense at that: yes, I am aware that the first Actraiser/ActRaiser is not a very long game and that some can beat it on just one sitting. Not everyone is experienced enough to do so, however, so most will feel the need to save; and unfortunately let the other person that wants to play it wait until the current player is done with it in the process (if it comes to that). =(}

[Edited Wed 11th Jun 2014 by StarBoy91]

To each their own

28
KingMike
Wed 11th Jun 2014

I nearly beat Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt, but as I mentioned the game has serious random-crashing issues at least with my console (probably one of the earlier console versions).

Xandra has an English version "Whirlo", but it is sadly PAL-exclusive and I hear extremely rare and expensive.
(ogo are you emailing Namco yet?)

KingMike

29
StarBoy91
Wed 11th Jun 2014

Well at least the Japanese original is more affordable and easy to come by and does not demand THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to be spent on it as is the case for the localized PAL version Whirlo. I once saw a full CIB copy of it on eBay that cost around that much... absolutely crazy; no one should spend that much on a game (regardless of whether it turns out to be good or turns out to be crap)!

... It makes me wonder: what is contributing to the high price for the PAL version anyway? Its high difficulty? The bad endings? The depressing theme behind its story despite its lighthearted tone? The fact it got localized at all, albeit for one continent? The fact that Namco "angry Kirby-fied" the main protagonist for the PAL version (in the Japanese version, Xandra looks like a sweet approachable character; in the PAL version he looks anything but with his angry eyes, as far as I looked up)?

Regardless of whether anyone likes ActRaiser 2 or not, one thing is for certain: Xandra no Daibōken: Valkyrie to no Deai makes ActRaiser 2 look easily manageable and reasonable by comparison (by itself though, ActRaiser 2 would still be manageable (though not easily) and it is a little reasonable if you study enemy and boss patterns and persevere throughout, all while going at a slow and steady pace). It's not worth the depression for me personally (one of the few games that's ever made me feel depressed; along with Mega Man VII and the recent Yoshi's New Island... Namco, I hate you), and I don't think its worth the high price tag either; I'd much rather play Namco's lightheartedly fun and easygoing 16-bit Wagyan trilogy (well, maybe not Super Wagyan Land 2 (that one just didn't work for me); but Super Wagyan Land and Wagyan Paradise at least have the decency to not take themselves too seriously and that's what makes them fun and enjoyable for me; don't be all glum and dark with people--especially Xandra's infant son--dying from a deathly plague and the main character becoming evil if he fails his mission! Seriously!! Just be fun; that, or maybe fine-tune the extra jumping controls and have less hair-raising area design in the adventure; music's nice, though, I'll give it that much). And for that matter, I'd rather play ActRaiser 2, as at least it doesn't make me feel depressed when I play it (despite the darker tones and scenery, I can still play through it).

To each their own

[Edited Wed 11th Jun 2014 by StarBoy91]

To each their own

30
ogo79
Wed 11th Jun 2014

WanderFan91 wrote:

... It makes me wonder: what is contributing to the high price for the PAL version anyway? Its high difficulty? The bad endings? The depressing theme behind its story despite its lighthearted tone? The fact it got localized at all, albeit for one continent? The fact that Namco "angry Kirby-fied" the main protagonist for the PAL version (in the Japanese version, Xandra looks like a sweet approachable character; in the PAL version he looks anything but with his angry eyes, as far as I looked up)?

thats pretty much why actually lol

KingMike wrote:

(ogo are you emailing Namco yet?)

i did right before i read this actually

Untitled
this is old news yet interesting

31
StarBoy91
Wed 11th Jun 2014

That would make sense, honestly, if that were the case

To each their own

32
KoopaTrooper
Mon 23rd Jun 2014

The mere name Actraiser brings a tear to my eye. If any game deserved to be reborn it is Actraiser. Such a great game. Its obvious the people behind Actraiser 2 had no idea what made the 1st one so much fun.

KoopaTrooper

33
StarBoy91
Tue 24th Jun 2014

@KoopaTrooper - don't take this the wrong way as I respect its status as a classic, but if ActRaiser was reborn then it would be furthering my theory that the license-holders only care about ActRaiser and not the remaining quintet of Quintet's library (SoulBlazer, ActRaiser 2, Illusion of Gaia, Robotrek, and Terranigma) and it would not change the fact that it's too overexposed for its own good. It's a good game, yes; it's worth playing, yes; does it mean it should take top priority as far as rereleases are concerned (leaving the other games in the dust)? No. No is the answer! And I know I'm sounding like a broken record at this point (but I have to since I feel like I'm the only one who sees the bigger picture here), but the sequel, the Gaia trilogy, the turn-based entry of the library: they need a rerelease, since they were only released once (on the SFC/SNES) while ActRaiser was released four times (the SFC/SNES original, the super arcade game, the modified phone version, the Nintendo Wii Virtual Console). Why? There is no justification for this unfair negligence. I like the first ActRaiser but I just hate what it's become: the license holders' excuse to snub the other five Quintet games. I just find that despicable.

No, Quintet was not wise when it came to removing the town simulation elements in ActRaiser 2, as they ended up taking away what made the first game what it was. But yeah, this "sequel/prequel/whatever it was" was doomed from the start since Quintet decided to give it the ActRaiser moniker.

To each their own

[Edited Thu 26th Jun 2014 by StarBoy91]

To each their own

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