Topic: The everything Xbox thread

Pulse, no question. Always Pulse. I don't think I ever tune into any other station unless it gets forced on me through bucket lists and the like, and even then I'll sometimes swap back.

As an Azure/SSMS nut xcloud sounds fantastic. As a gamer I don’t have the internet, interest or will to deal with this. I suppose my plan to take a year off next year was a good idea.

I just caved and bought the Xbox One X 1TB Forza Horizon 4 bundle with RDR2 on Amazon for £399.99. I don't even have a 4K TV but that will be something I will get soon anyway.

@FragRed Congratulations, it's an amazing deal, pun not intended. Don't worry about the TV, many people use the console for HD TV, the supersampling from UHD to HD is brilliant with much less shimmering and much better anti-aliasing. You also get better performance, textures, loading times... And some games aren't 1080p on the base Xbox One. For instance, Red Dead Redemption 2 is 864p on Xbox One S and native 4K on Xbox One X.

You also get two of the best games of the whole generation in the bundle. Forza Horizon 4 is so good that I got the Ultimate Addons bundle.

The only way I'm going for RDR2 is less than 50% of the price. There's currently too much on the radar for me to bother much with it.

There's a lot of mystery around the X018 reveals, but whatever comes from it is sure to be exciting.

@DarthNocturnal I don't find GTA appealing enough but I think that the Wild West and more historical gameplay of Red Dead Redemption 2 are much more interesting. It's why I also prefer any Assassin's Creed to both Watch Dogs (Watch Dogs 2 in particular is exactly the least appealing game ever to me).

I really hope that Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are remade (Nuts & Bolts still looks great) and that Rare develops or co-develops a new game in the series. 3D platformers are back . Sea of Thieves perfoms smoothly and the visuals are awesome while being cartoon, I think that they would make a great new Banjo-Kazooie game. Sea of Thieves is one of the most beautiful games I have ever played in spite of being disappointed by the Forsaken Shores new area. I wish that Rare would also do anything else and not just updating this game.

@BlueOcean Nah, not stuck in Mattrick era. Just following the overall industry and tech trends, plus things Phil has said over the past year+ and extrapolating the logical course for Xbox (and the industry at large) based on Xbox's traditional role and what the major publishers want. Make no mistake, the industry isn't run by Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, it's run by Ubisoft, Activision, EA, 2K, Warner, and Squeenix. They absolutely, thoroughly, completely can't stand console "generations", it's a massive thorn in their business models which are based on PC and mobile. As they push toward streaming-only, console "generations" are just going to appear worse and worse to their businesses. Like with x86, it's a safe bet they're applying a lot of pressure to MS/Sony to do something about that console cycle that never existed as a desirable business model but was just a biproduct of where tech was back 25 years ago. If it's not X, and it's not Scarlett, it'll be the one after Scarlett, but that model change is inevitable. I'm just giving MS the assumption that they're the most forward thinking of the bunch willing to make big changes, while Sony has followed MS and Nintendo for the past decade or so.

FH soundtracks: I tend to like British pop and am fairly ambivalent to negative on Australian Pop, so Pulse works out better in 4 than 3 to me. I haven't spent enough time with other channels yet, but Pulse's playlist seems oddly shallow this time.....it's getting repetitious which is a shame because Pulse usually as great soundtracks in these games. Bass Arena, Hospital, and Timeless also get some play time. So far that's it. Not sure if I have more to unlock or not in 4. There's Block Party (no thanks) and a rock station that's ok ,but rock and racing just don't go together to me unless it's NASCAR or trucks in a desert.

Still, nothing is more awesome than doing the jump ramp challenge things, approaching a snowy winter mountain ledge, uphill, at 110mph in a giant red Dodge RAM turbocharged truck at the climax of Grieg's Peer Gynt as you take flight (Also, that truck is basically "easy mode" )

@DarkRula Are you finding Pulse in 4 kind of repetitive yet? It seems shallower than usual.

@FragRed About flippin' time! Don't worry about not having a 4k display, the supersampling on 1080p screens renders 4k screens unnecessary more or less. I.E. the image quality difference is very stark to me when supersampled on the X (moreso than the PS4 Pro...checkerboarding apparently doesn't supersample so well.) Blue and Thanos hate my praise of FH4 Quality mode's visuals over Performance mode But I do think supersampling has a lot to do with that on my 1080p PC monitor I play on. I'm noticing more that raw 1080 is looking bad to me after getting used to X1X SS when I play Switch. It definitely is worth it even on 1080.

@JaxonH The best way I can describe the flaws of RDR2 is "clunky." The whole game feels clunky. The characters move like trucks. The physics/movement model feels copied right from L.A. Noire, and it was always questionable. It gives it "weight" and I realize cowboys are gear laden (more than 1940's detectives), but the long hesitation between input and the character turning like their legs are made of lead is also unnatural, and like L.A. Noire it takes an unnatural amount of time to turn from facing one object to another.

Whoever came up with the dialog system of aiming with the aiming button to activate the tiny corner dialog menu should be taken to the saloon at high noon. Not only does it defy 25+ years of gaming convention of "walk to character, press button" but it breaks its own in-game systems. Yes, I know Ocarina had a "aim to talk to someone far away" system, but Ocarina didn't have guns to aim as a main loop. There's a sidequest where you come across a broken wagon at roadside and can help or rob him. So I go to him to talk to him requiring aiming. He's talking still so it decides it won't let me aim now. He finishes talking, and it lets me aim, and instead of dialog, I pull a gun on him, because it's the same stupid context-sensitive button. He freaks out and flees on horseback, and the quest is lost. At another point, an ally is being strangleheld and I get to try to rescue them. I go to pull a gun to deal with the situation, the game decides I want to talk to him instead. It then, with the bottom corner context options tells me to now hit RT to aim [a gun]. So in a game that the only buttons that match gaming conventions of LT aim, RT fire, they add in LT to bring up action/dialog menu in a context specific (but broken) way, and intermittently LT+RT is what lets you aim the gun, then hit RT again to fire? It's not just inconsistent with gaming convention, it's inconsistent with its own conventions which means you can never trust your knowledge of the game's controls to play and interact, you need to stare always at the bottom right corner of the screen to see which input options exist at the present moment in time. Plus the dialog option exists to let you talk to people at a distance rather than having to walk to everyone unnaturally, but half the time if I aim at someone from a distance, the "greet" option is grayed out until I walk up to them anyway.

I also can't explain why "map" that has been on "SELECT" (I still call these buttons START/SELECT rather than View/Menu, Options/Touchpad, +/-. It's a standard convention to use for everything but 8th gen) for every game nearly since forever, put "change camera distance" on SELECT, and put menu on START, but press-and-hold START to bring up the map. Needless to say I change the camera angle a lot by accident. I can't imagine how they do it on PS4. Press the "map rectangle" to change camera angle, press the teeny, tiny, hard to hit "options" button and hold it to bring up the map? Eek!

Another favorite moment, I stumbled upon some gallows while a hanging was going on. There's a sobbing newly minted widow that tells me to go away....but if I aim at her, nothing happens. The deputy is up on the platform, I aim at him and get the options to "praise" or "scold"....odd options for the deputy who just performed a hanging. So then I aim at the hanging victim. Again, I get the options to "praise or scold".....weird...praise him for hanging so well, or scold him for being a criminal maybe? Maybe for the deputy it's a political message "praise law and order or scold capital punishment?" So it has "RB to Study"....so I try "studying" the hanging corpose. It tells me it's a domestic cat. Huh? Finally I realize there was a cat walking in the grass some distance behind the gallows, and since there were no dialog options for the deputy or hanging body, the game deiced to lock onto the cat when I aimed in it's direction at the gallows for talking/interacting. Why can't I just "press A to talk" to whatever's in front of me?

Shopping makes most sense in the catalogs, a.k.a. menu-driven shopping like a JRPG, since browsing on the shelves is slow. Aim, hope to actually lock onto the item you want. If you want to see the stats/effects you have to "examine" and wait for the slow lifting animations, then put it down.... Very L.A. Noire, again, but somehow doesn't fit as well without examining evidence. You can forgive clunkiness in L. A. Noire, it's a puzzle/adventure game at heart with a bit of Ace Attorney mixed in.

And I love that they tried something different with the health/stamina/horse stamina/dead eye thing (maybe RDR1 had that too, I haven't played much of it yet, though it looks amazing on X), but again...it's clunky. 4 meters, each with their own bar, replenished by tonics or over time, but to maintain regeneration you maintain the cores, the cores are maintained by appropriate foods/drinks, some of which help one a little or a lot, some help one hurt the other, so you have to sort your beans from your smokes from your canned fruit from your fresh veggies as they all refill/help/hurt cores differently (when did it become Harvest Moon?) but then watch for weight gain/weight loss indicators if your'e not eating enough....... the idea is fantastic. The implementation is confusing and awkward with all the provisions available that affect you differently.

At least it doesn't have RDR1's meme-ready running animation (shudder)

The game itself is really amazing, and a fantastic world to play in, but the more I wrestle with the controls, the easier Dark Souls becomes. Sure it has challenging fights, but at least I know what happens when I push a button. RDR2 has no particular gameplay challenge. Shooting is kind of Hoagan's Alley with better graphics. And there's more time with interactive story and navigation than what I'd specifically call "gameplay", it's more of an "interactive entertainment experience" than a "video game". But dang if sucky controls can't turn even the simplest game into a Souls-like.

I'm getting used to it in a way, but I think I'll never get used to it. If I change my camera instead of bring up my map one more time I'm going to have to hurt somebody.

Looks like MS may be planning some new controller solutions for their xCloud program. Really hope we hear some news about this at X018 would love to forego having to get another box to get it on that sweet Horizon 4 action!

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-29-here-are-micros...

@NEStalgia There does seem fewer songs that have really grabbed me on 4 over 3, but half the time I'm not listening anyway. I've got my own stuff or I'll have videos on in the background.

@redd214 Ouch, those prototypes are terrible! Just thinking of the stresses put on joycons during intense play that are firmly mounted to a metal rail, I can't imagine hand grips on a non-mechanically connected grip for real gameplay.

Considering MS is the only company that managed to come up with a tablet keyboard that feels and works great while being razor thin, and a mouse that folds flat, is thin, and works on any surface, (Type Cover, Arc Mouse) I do hope they can come up with something. But it usually takes them about 4 generational refreshes or so to actually get such things right, so I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to early adopt. I mean even the XBox controller began life as "The Duke" lol

@NEStalgia reading the article it appears the prototypes themselves are from years ago so no point in judging them really. Type cover is decent enough (wife has had multiple surfaces through the years) but would hardly say their the only one to do it well. You sure do complain a lot man, lighten up

Anywho, in addition to the X/Red Dead 2 deals, Walmart also has a great deal on the S if anyones in the market for one. NBA2K19, Horizon 4, PUBG, or Minecraft plus RDR2, extra controller, $5 XBL credit all for $260.

https://www.walmart.com/co/Choice-of-Microsoft-Xbox-One-S-1TB...

@redd214 I'm a consummate pessimist, but I pale in comparison to the complainers that dwell on NL Type Cover is great though. Actual full travel scissor switches, backlighting, at only 2mm or so depth, and sturdy as a full keyboard with a magnesium base. I've tried many a keyboard and never found one that got it so right for a thin board and didn't feel like creaking, stressing plastic. Arc mouse though...that thing is a wonder to behold I can't help but grin every time I snap my mouse in half. For may reasons.

A portable controller that does some of that...magnesium backing, bendable, foldable would be pretty cool. It would also make the Elite look cheap, but that's another thing

@NEStalgia @BlueOcean Thanks! Yeah, I wasn't sure about it for a long while partly as it was pushed as this the 4K console and partly due to the high price which I just couldn't justify, so this deal was perfect for me to jump on board. But I am glad that the X is so impressive on HD TVs thanks to the supersampling I really didn't want to buy a 4K TV any time soon.

I am really excited to play Forza Horizon 4 - much prefer arcade racers and I am sure I will get over the clunky controls of RDR2, well I hope I will.

@FragRed let us know if you prefer quality or performance mode on fh4. I need ammo against blue and thanos .

Rdr2 is definitely worthwhile and excellent despite the bizarre controls. Still a fantastic experience, just a shame controls and a few design choices keep it from perfection. A must play either way though. (Especially on the X )

@NEStalgia You never know, by this time next generation, Rockstar may have a game with modern day controls.... Oh who am I kidding, that's about as likely as Bethesda releasing a Elder Scrolls or Fallout game without all the bugs and glitches

I shall have to spend some time in FH4 in both modes then. I also agree with your point that it's a few big third party publishers that run the show with the direction consoles go. It's the reason Sony and Microsoft go around asking them what they want from each new generation and why the publishers were so eager to get the current consoles out the door. However, I do think as soon as EA and Ubisoft get their streaming services running with decent results, they will ditch Microsoft and Sony's streaming service and go solo. Why share revenues with a company you no longer need at a time when hardware will, for the most part, be obsolete in a world where it's all streaming based.

And with that, Microsoft are definitely in a better position than Sony to go streaming in terms of the backend. They have data centres and the capitol to pump into this venture unlike Sony. Nintendo will just do Nintendo and hope they can continue creating hardware that sells based on their first party lineup. Sony is the one I really think is in a hard place as to whether they try and compete with full streaming services or stay mainly hardware based. They have the brand power and first party studios so that may help.

What ever happens, streaming won't catch on for enough people to justify it being the main way to play games for years to come - perhaps a decade or more at least, so none of this really maters yet. Hardware will remain the number one interest in most consumers for a long time to come.

@NEStalgia I have been checking FH3 X-enhanced and FH4 in Quality and Performance modes on a HD TV. As expected, the Digital Foundry video is true, Performance mode is basically the same as Quality mode in FH4 but performance being in 1080p and 60 fps and with less sophisticated lighting, but I have discovered something. You used to mention things like the trees being lower-quality and "uglier" in Performance mode. The trees and the other elements are exactly the same when you go near them in both modes, when the camera is in front of them (I did this on purpose) so I have reached the conclusion that the extra quality that you perceive is the supersampling from 4K to HD. The trees and other elements display shimmering in Performance mode that is nullified in Quality mode. Add to that the super anti-aliasing of the excellent supersampling of X and you get a more realistic image in Quality mode. They are basically the same visuals, but the supersampling and super anti-aliasing is cleaning the graphics, this is more obvious the closer you play to your TV. Don't write another wall text about this, just to end the topic, you were partly right about one thing but wrong about the origin and dimension. I think Performance mode is best anyway, because 60 fps is glorious in a racing game, but it's good that the game has the two options. In other games like Tomb Raider I go for the quality mode. Just answer one question, how do you deal with Switch visuals on a TV?

EDIT: I haven't bought Red Dead Redemption 2 yet, it is on my radar but... hearing all this stuff about unnatural controls in a game that you are constantly dealing with them... How could the developers overlook so many things? Somebody else is playing the game and can comment?

@FragRed "What ever happens, streaming won't catch on for enough people to justify it being the main way to play games for years to come - perhaps a decade or more at least, so none of this really maters yet. Hardware will remain the number one interest in most consumers for a long time to come".

That is right. Next "generation" (to call it something) Microsoft will release a hardware console and a streaming console, so streaming will be just an option in the near future. I have no idea what will Nintendo do, probably the next thing will be a revised Switch. One thing is certain, Sony will have a much harder time next time than back in 2013 with Don Pattrick messing with the Xbox brand and niche Wii U console.

@BlueOcean I totally agree. Sony have kinda had it easy for 3 out of the 4 home consoles in terms of competition. Sega and Nintendo messed up with the Saturn & N64 which allowed Sony to get their foot in the console door and create a run away success, though Sony did also help themselves with a system designed to be third party friendly. The only system they struggled to hit the ground running with was the PS3 in part due to poor management but also because they had good competition.

@BlueOcean the controls in red dead aren't as bad as some have made it seem. While they are in no way perfect, they aren't so bad and jarring that it messes up the game.

@FragRed LOL, yeah Rockstar and good controls don't tend to go together. GTAV had ok controls....but I'm not a fan of GTA V in general. Bland game, bland gameplay, way less campaign than previous GTA games. Just kind of a big sandbox to screw around in which to me is the worst of Western game design. RDR is kind of the opposite. Gunplay is still bland as anything, but the living breathing world experience is great.

I also don't think streaming is this universal thing for a long, long, long time. The internet just isn't in good condition for that. Good option for those it works for, but Sony had the only mass market streaming service up to now and even they're backing down from it with moving to a Game Pass like model (except PS3, at least until PS5 can emulate PS3.) Xcloud will probably be better than Now, but it still feels like a more limited niche product that's kind of geographically bound.

@BlueOcean FH4: I'm starting to think you skim rather than read my text walls I mentioned the supersampling possibility when we discussed it before. But yeah, I'm glad you see what I'm talking about now and don't think I'm (that) crazy The detailed lighting and textures on things like buildings, to me, matter as well too, but yeah I think it's the fsaa/ss combination particularly on foliage that makes such a difference to me. That kind of brings back an old thread I had with someone about not understanding the push to 4k displays in gaming when games currently (previously) didn't look close to 1080p video. It seems like the sweet spot target should be 60Hz, 1080p output supersampled from 4k rendering. With a decent video scaler that could produce the most cinematic visuals until the power to render 8k and supersample to 4k is practical.

"How do you deal with Switch visuals on a TV"
Given that this is 2018 and I owned a WiiU: I play XBox. Seriously I haven't played much Switch on TV since Mario Odyssey which looked great with the art style, and I played a lot of Xenoblade 2, South Park, and some indies over the last 6 months mostly handheld on the go. The few times I put XC2 onto the TV, it feels kind of blurry (people complain about it in handheld mode, yeah the resolution drops but at 6" it's decent looking, I think it looks worse smoothed on a 1080p screen even if it has more detail. But Dark Souls and Starlink on the display are making me cringe a bit, yes. Especially Starlink. I'd have bought that on X1 were it not for Starfox being the main draw. (Great game though, even without Fox, worth playing on X1 if you don't plan on getting a Switch when you see it half price in like 4 weeks. It's simplified, a little Saturday Morning cartoon, awful story, but if you like the Assassin's Creed open worlds, it's an AC open world in a spaceship. It plays like a Ubisoft open world mixed with the fun of blasting around in Forza Horizon with a taste of Doom's frantic gunplay. It won't redefine art, it may be popcorn entertainment, but it sure is fun to play!)

RDR2: It's still a worthy game to be on the radar. The real draw in terms of "gameplay" isn't conventional. Gunfights are paint by numbers bland - it's no Bungie, EA, or Ubisoft shooter, that's for sure. But most of the game isn't shooting, it's just "existing" in the world, and the world is very alive. The control complaints do hamper the fun at times with some frustration, but it doesn't derail the game, it's just frustrating that they could spent so much time on ridiculous details and overlook important control issues. (Our buddy @Octane in the PS4 thread today pointed out the rather disturbing fact that they accurately animated the shrinkage of equine genitalia in changing temperatures.........yet failed to figure out that using the same button for "interact with person" and "draw and aim gun" wasn't a good plan. )