Only just catching up on this thread properly now - it's like 6 pages already!?
@NEStalgia I feel bad replying to your messages in general, mainly because I see everyone @-ing you all over the site and I hate giving you more walls to respond to!
I do hope you go back to RDR2 at some point but I understand fully why your attention may be elsewhere, especially when it's as enticing as a maggot in a bowl of rice with a control scheme covered in treacle - all i can say is overall it's worth it if you enjoy characters/narrative above everything else.
You do raise another good point about the XBOX crowd too; I've long thought myself as a very atypical xbox fan, with a lot of the exclusives not really aimed at me (although it was good for a while when they had a stab at a few jrpgs etc in the 360 era). Not really sure of the exact reason I've kept it as my main machine, I've got the ps4 like most of you but equally I just don't get on with it the same way as I do my One? Especially now I have the lovely silent (at least compared to the Pro) X.
@Yosheel hadn't spotted that you'd actually pressed 'buy' - welcome to the party!
Battery going on my laptop so you've all been saved from another n paragraphs of drivel... Hmm, maybe I've been reading the switch thread too much?
@BrainOfGrimlock Wow, I've only lost one Elite so far (stick drift...ugh...the XBox standard.) Well and the charging port on one of my standard controllers never worked out of the box if I use play & charge, but I like the weight of Eneloops in the standard controllers anyway (Elite OTOH needs P&C....batteries weight it down far too much>)
@BrainOfGrimlock Haha, I admit of late I've been just choosing to drop some conversations not because I don't want to continue them but because if I responded to everything properly I'd never actually play any games
I'll get back to RDR2 someday. Maybe after they patch the controls It's a great game....but....I'm still doing Nier, haven't finished Torna, I'm dabbling with WoFF on Switch (and TWEWY when the occasion is right to much with the bad controls there too), Smash is a few weeks out, but worse is I tuned into MHGU (maybe MHW at some point, but GU is better for coop), and now I've discovered that TES:O is actually a good TES RPG despite being online...which is since, since TES6 is like a decade away And once you enter the MMO rabbit hole.....
And someday I'll get my Lets Go Eevie exchanged for the Let's Go Pikachu I ordered.
EDIT Whoops, I hit send before I was done: The funny thing is I don't have any nostalgia for PS like some do. I do have a fondness of seeing it in an old store that's gone that has fond memories, but I never owned a PSX or really wanted one back in its day, I was barely aware they existed, I was all Nintendo/Sega, then PC. But due to it's large Japanese game catalog and motif, I have still considered myself more a PS fan than MS fan (in part because I was never fond of MS's behavior outside of XB.) Yet I spent more time with my 360 than my PS3 and more with my One than my PS4. And I only bought a PS2 when I bought the PS3 for some back compat. Plus FF represents a significant chunk of those "Sony games" that are now not Sony games (only KH and more of the Tales series and such remain.)
I love Sony's first party games too, and they're a lot more different than most of the MS stuff to date. But when I really scrutinize it, while there's a lot of those, the number pales compared to the "total" games across the two systems. I need to own one to get those exclusives, but, ultimately, there's far more of everything else, and XB is just much better at the "everything else." Add in that XB is technically the successor of Sega, and it's really the camp I was always in to begin with. I'd say it's just because of the X, since, at launch, PS4 was more powerful than X1, and that's part of it, but overall MS just manages the ecosystem better. And the UI is a lot more sane. Maybe I would not have come back to it if the X didn't exist though. I didn't need any of the exclusives on it, and I did "need" several exclusives on PS4 (though I've since learned that Forza: Horizon is awesome.) Of course with Obsidian on the fold I might need XB exclusives....
I will say however, that X spoiled me with getting used to smooth performance. I got into the first dungeon in TES:O Summerset and experience slowdown to 10FPS or less slideshows...I haven't seen that since my PC days. Good work Bethesda. Knew I could count on you. Something about the water effects it seems. That's just...how are they even leaving it like that?
Still when I think of the "XBox" fan, I think of the dooooooood crowd. FIFAAA!! YEAAHH! And that's not most of us here. Though that crowed maybe jumped ship to PS4 early gen. 7th gen XBox was the doood guys. 7th gen PS was...I dunno...home theater enthusiasts? 7th gen Nintendo was retirement homes. It feels like 8th gen PS is a more violent version of the doood guys, 8th gen XBox is veteran gamers, and 8th gen Nintendo is mostly people that hate Nintendo buy still only buy Nintendo.
@Octane btw, if modding that word (assuming I guessed right) in the future, that really needs explanation attached! It may be a UK site, but seemingly half the population is US here and virtually no Yank would ever guess that's an offensive word even if you explained it. It just isn't here, it's a standard dictionary word used according to its dictionary meaning. I'm certain I've used it multiple times to describe camera behavior, character movement, etc despite never getting "caught" for it. It's a plain old adjective, not a noun, over here, so a lot of people would be plenty puzzled as to what they did wrong.
@BlueOcean Hmm, the demo sounds like it picks up pretty well into the game. What a weird demo choice. It has none of the KH-like setup at that point. It's still a "simplified" FF in a lot of ways, but it's a fun ride. Unless the cute is jut annoying. They say it's for kids, but I don't see it. Most of the charm is for playing a lighthearted version of what was otherwise darker themed locales.
Egg frying on the PS3 Phat would be difficult with the half-moon shaped top. That was the greatest oversight of its design. They told me "it only does everything" but when I tried to fry breakfast on it, they just ran down the side. Fortunately none got into the fan vent, because it wasn't big enough for egg to fit in. I should give it a try on the Pro though.
XS: Microsoft really has to stop hiring Reggie to name things for them. The XBox 3 became the XBox One, then we get the XBox One S and XBox One X because that's not confusing when calling the store at all, and now we get the XBox One XS so absolutely nobody knows what they're asking for. Suddenly WiiU sounds like a good name. Maybe we're tied for "New 2DS XL".
BTW, I finally set up my Brook - it's the X One wireless adapter. It's pretty slick. It's finicky to sync, it dropped connection to my PS4 once and shut off. The battery lasts 3-5 hours like an OG DualShock 4 (compared to my Play & Charge that I recharge once or twice a month....) But it's actually pretty slick. I can use the Elite on PS4 and Switch, and it supports motion controls so fidgety games like Tearaway, and of course Splatoon/Doom can now be played with an Elite with motion controls! (It can't power on Switch, that's its only limitation, you have to turn it on manually or with another controller first.) The amazing thing is it has zero (well compared to native wireless controllers, not compared to wired) input lag....meanwhile most of Sony's licensed 3rd party wireless controllers have obnoxious input lag (Hori Onyx, Razer Raiju Tournament/Ultimate.)
No idea how they did it...it's not licensed so especially for Switch I'm not sure how they got the protocol working. And occasionally PS4 firmwares break support and you have to wait for a firmware update for it to flash it on a PC. But all in all, firing up Shadow of the Colossus and Splatoon with an Elite is pretty cool
@ThanosRexxx at this point I trust MS's digital rights retention about as much as Steam. Which is to say neither should be fully trusted, but they've demonstrated as much good faith and as little bad faith as Steam. For now, including their honoring of Windows licenses.
As for the legal...were it to be tried and ruled as actual property, that's a broader ruling than MS. Their use of "own" just opens the door for a case. The ruling would be broader regarding DRM of purchased products. They would likely be compelled to remove the DRM requirements entirely and operate like music and GOG operate today. Such a case would probably occur in the EU were it to happen (that's what forced Steam to behave themselves in the early '00s.) The idea of DRM on products you own, and reliance on gatekeeping from a single provider belies the notion of purchase. It should never have come t this point at all. DRM should be for subscription rentals, not for purchases.
The industry argument has always been "but then people could just copy it and distribute it." But that argument is now baseless as the entirety of the music industry, arguably a bigger industry than gaming, has moved to DRM-free distribution, and the risks of copying haven't collapsed the industry. And existing models in gaming already thrive with GoG and Humble. Use of the word "own" is a perfect opportunity to challenge the very notion of DRM as permissible in products sold to purchase and digital ownership rights, should anyone wish to challenge (Where is the FSF on such matters?!)
DRM has been pedaled as copy protection, but it's not similar at all. The very meaning "Digital Rights Management" means someone controls your usage and access, the opposite of ownership, even of a license. Purchased products can't have "rights management." That battle has to be coming as more and more things become digital. The first digital store to go bust will make that an issue.
@Yosheel Concerning your Switch comment: over here in the Netherlands, we've got one of the largest outlets, comparable to Best Buy, who was selling them last week at a temporary special discount price of €249, which translates to $285,22. No game in the box, though, just the console. And since today, the price is back to €319. Considering the period it was on sale, it may not have had anything to do with Black Friday.
@NEStalgia Oh, don't get me wrong: concerning DRM, and things companies do/want to do AFTER you've already legally bought their product, I completely agree with you. But like I said: them not being allowed to touch/hamper the product itself anymore, still doesn't prevent them from disabling/discontinuing the servers for any specific game, seeing as like I already said, server maintenance is a different entity in and of itself. It's even another cost balance altogether for a company, so contrary to popular belief, it is completely separated from any service (or game) running on it, in that respect.
And THAT is where they could still find a loophole to circumvent having to relinquish complete control to the user. I'm not saying that they ARE going to do that, but they sure could. And if that happens, you'll ultimately end up with that scenario I painted for you: the digital car sitting in its parking space on your hard drive. Other than having no wheels, it is in perfect condition, but you still won't be able to use it anymore or let it go anywhere.
All I'm hoping for is that Microsoft will never choose that path, and that they're 110% serious about continuing support of backward compatibility, also in the coming generations of devices. And not by means of having to sell your physical games in exchange for a digital key...
P.S.
Completely off-topic, and because we've already wrapped it up before you added your thoughts on the matter, this will be the last thing I'll say about it, but I felt I needed to reply to you.
Thanks for wondering the same about the supposed offensive word that I did. Not that I was starting to question my own sanity, and of course I'm aware that the British censorship is "a bit" more stringent than the rest of Europe, and the US, but I was still never aware that this word would be as offensive as it was apparently interpreted, nor was that ever my intent. Oh well, noted for future reference, I guess...
Just glad that I'm not alone in thinking that it's completely harmless. The world as a whole could at the very least do with a slightly thicker skin; as a species, we humans have become all too quick to judge and point fingers at each other for the smallest of "offenses" or supposed misdemeanors, that we never even would have second-guessed a decade (or even half a decade) ago. It's clear that the digital age is not only affecting us online anymore. Some of these things are completely valid and justified, but a lot of them are WAY too over-sensitive, if you ask me. I would hate to get to a point where literally everything must be handled with kid gloves because people are afraid to hurt each other's feelings. That would more than likely lead to a society that's even more stress-prone than it already is...
I hope you get what I'm trying to say here, and some people that read this might be offended, but in my honest opinion, too many people are getting a voice, and it's only making the mutual shouting contests all the more louder, which can never be a good thing, no matter which way you look at it...
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@DarthNocturnal Yeah... that's another thing that has gained more traction ever since the dawn of the digital/online age: hating on popular stuff just for the heck of it, or because it's a popular thing on a device that you yourself don't own, which in turn validates your right to hate on it...
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@ThanosReXXX Of course that isn't just a digital rights issue, physical ownership would be crippled to if anything actually requires online functionality, thus it's something not possible to own and is merely a service, which is where a lot of games are heading... Yeah that's seperate from ownerhship if it's actually a live service beyond patches. But ownership shouldn't require checking in with a licensing server. If the game requires a server to run that's a "loophole" that can't be avoided, sadly.
Obvious true semi-guaranteed hardware backward compatibility is a PC only thing since these console architectures can shift at any time. (and even there, PC isn't as truly backward compatible as people say when it depends on "fan made patches" and such.)
@DarthNocturnal Halo was the dudebro thing because the kind of people who played it, at least the visible ones, were dudebros. It kind of got replaced by COD at some point and now only nerds play Halo I guess But the stereotype was legit at the time for the audience it had. That high school/college dorm demographic of its era was into all the space marines shooty mans stuff. Now they're all middle aged and Microsoft named it's digital productivity assistant after the game to try to engage with them
And 8th gen Nintendo is mostly people that hate Nintendo buy still only buy Nintendo
And people that don't know that Nintendo exists before 2017.
For me there are two things I don't like about PS at all, one is the customer service and digital rights management and the other is the controller. Nintendo is not better regarding digital games I guess and their hardware is always lacking since Wii although Wii U was technical the best console for one year.
The exclusives debate is an eternal loop (as we have learnt) because it's the most subjective part. The three of them have some exclusives that appeal to me (more Microsoft and Nintendo currently) but I'm learning to appreciate Microsoft this generation because I was more Nintendo fanboy before Xbox One. I still love Nintendo but I feel that I have opened my mind.
There is so much to like about Xbox now with retro Sega, Square Enix, Rare, the backwards compatibility and better hardware and controller for all the multiplatform games. Microsoft, the new Microsoft if you like, don't pay for third-party marketing deals and temporary exclusivity but buy small studios so they can make new big games and that is a huge step in the right direction.
New Nintendo 2DS XL: play Nintendo 3DS games in 2D. Nintendo is mad. I love Wii U but do you remember when they said it meant "We+You" and they were so proud. I was embarrassed.
The X, S and XS almost sound the same. They asked Phil Spencer why Xbox One X was not called Scorpio and he said that it's because it is part of the Xbox One family (that started before he was boss). The new Xbox One models are just rumours at the moment but if true there will be five different Xbox One consoles before the Scarlett family arrives: original, S, X, XS and disc-less Xbox One (S?).
Can you post link to the Brook adapter to compare to mine? And please stop using acronyms for all games!
Almost like people were just hating on it because it was popular
That happened to Assassin's Creed. I was one of them because I was immature and more Nintendo's fanboy last generation. The only AC that I've played, the first one, is awesome. And Halo 1 reminded me of Metroid Prime although Halo was released before but I didn't played it until recently.
@NEStalgia I know I've done something bad when I get summoned in the Xbox thread
I'm not the one making the rules. And that's not to say it's all Ant's fault, but I just remove what the profanity filter on this website deems inappropriate. Exceptions exist, like Benedict Cumberbatch, the filter doesn't like him either. Anyway, this site is UK based after all, that's something to keep in mind. I know the meaning of the word has a completely different connotation in the US, but in the UK it's up there with plenty of other nasty words. I'm certain there are a fair share of words that are deemed offensive in the US, but aren't in other English speaking countries. Nobody gets banned for using it, but it's always edited out. Some moderators replace profanity with another word, sometimes with gibberish, and we often don't notify the user in question if there was no intention of using it as profanity. Thanos requested me to let him know if I ever did edit his comments, so I did, and that's probably the only reason why we're talking about it now
I really didn't want to because I think it's not that tragic if a UK website automatically removes (as have been explained) a word that is offensive in UK these days but according to Cambridge Dictionary:
spas***:
1 (offensive old-fashioned) suffering from cerebral palsy (= a condition of the body that makes it difficult to control the muscles)
2 (informal) an offensive way of saying "stupid", used especially by children
This explain its inclusion in the language filter.
@Octane lol, well it makes sense then if you don't normally notify people. My thinking was just that it should be explained if it's notified because outside the uk nobody would have a clue why. I didn't even know it was a thing until this conversation and it still took a lot of mental gymnastics to figure it out.
Some games and characters have a few in their names, but they're not super common.
I guess maybe the one that means "butt" in American English but something completely different in European English. It's not like super common either though...
@NEStalgia That's not quite what I'm getting at. Yes, games as a service are a growing phenomenon, but what I'm talking about, are the completely legal possibilities that Microsoft might possibly pursue, to prevent people from still playing certain games, or at least play them completely. So, I was talking about physical and/or local games. I didn't mean game license verification either, so forget about that specific online-based issue.
I'm simply talking about games on a disc that are subsequently installed on the console. A game that YOU bought, and which, by all rights, should be entirely yours within the confines of the law, pertaining to restrictions such as not being allowed to copy it and such, which is of course completely logical and understandable.
But again, the server-related part of the situation I proposed, is NOT a part of the game. It's an extra service tied to the game in some ways, but it does not mean that the game on the disc isn't a complete product.
So, as long as Microsoft would offer a complete product on a disc, updates and/or patches aside or included, because these too take nothing away from that, then they could steer clear of any claims concerning the whole "Buy to Own" thing that we started this discussion on. The game is a complete product, so as far as Microsoft would be concerned, that would be it, period.
The server part of it is, as I already explained, a completely different cost balance. The game is mainly if not completely archived under the product profits table, while server rent and maintenance is its own entity, which also offers a completely separate investment/cost vs revenue balance, not to do with any specific product or game, because server maintenance will be calculated as a whole, so the entire server farm for ALL the games and/or services that Microsoft offers. So, in that respect, that is in no significant way tied to any single game.
We all know that certain game series have become increasingly more online dependent, what with series like COD going from 50/50 offline/online to almost 20/80 offline/online, making/degrading the single player campaign into something barely more than a tutorial, with a semi-forgettable story attached to it.
But that's on developers and not on Microsoft, and another discussion altogether, so I'll side-step that one for now...
Suffice it to say, that lawyers will VERY easily be able to make a case in favor of Microsoft, if this is ever going to be taken to court because people might claim that either their game is disabled or Microsoft has sold them an incomplete product, because unfortunately for us gamers/customers, neither is true.
As for (semi-)guaranteed hardware backward compatibility: you yourself once, no several times, mentioned that current consoles are more and more PC-like architecture-wise, so you can't go back now and say that it only counts for PC, and not so much for consoles, because the two are now closer than ever before, and perhaps the next generation will truly be a PC in a box, although personally, I do think there will still be some console-specific differences and/or advantages.
And PC's actually ARE truly 100% backward compatible, but not in the way that the average Joe thinks, and most certainly also not solely dependent on fan made patches/cracks. All you need is a virtual machine (or several), and a multi-boot system, and you've got your 100% backward compatible PC, without ever having to mess with questionable, custom patches or the rather underwhelming/mediocre compatibility modes that Windows has offered ever since Windows XP...
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@Octane Benedict Cumberbatch trips the profanity filter? Poor man...
Well, obviously I'm missing something, because for the life of me, I can't figure that brain squeezer out...
EDIT:
Oh, wait. I think I got it now. Does make me wonder how many alerts the word "cucumber" trips...
Either way, not that I blame NLife or any of the mods, but the British Isles (and the BBC ) might do well to finally get with the times, concerning what's offensive or not, because some words that are deemed such, are almost childlike in their innocence. As a former US-resident, all I can say is that I'm VERY glad to live in the Netherlands, where that (censorship) is concerned.
Nobody here skips a beat concerning mentions of f-bombs, mother-somethings or other words for excrement, and they're SO right, because the words are childish and meaningless, unless you give meaning to them, by banning them or berating people for using them, making them seem heavier than they truly are. Sticks and stones, and all that...
The Dutch even laugh (or get annoyed) at the Americans for bleeping out f-bombs in TV shows. If native English speakers in America and Britain would hear and understand how the Dutch swear and what profane words they use, they'd probably either go all red in the face from shame, or cower in a corner. Suffice it to say that the Dutch have more in common with Scandinavian people, in that respect...
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