Like I said, I'm not particularly excited for Sony's future, personally, for a variety of reasons. But their upcoming lineup IS excellent. Full of big sequels to extremely well-regarded first-party properties. I'm not excited about that, but my perspective is out of line with the mainstream, so it's an outlier.
Oh, and while I've not handled it, I can almost guarantee I'd still like the Dualsense more than the XSeX controller, which is the most boring thing in the world. Nintendo and Sony keep finding ways to evolve and experiment with controller design, whereas Microsoft can't even be bothered to put a gyrometer in their controllers.
I mean, I get it, though. I preferred Nintendo's 2020 output to Sony's 2020 despite the latter's being almost objectively superior, because Ninty's design priorities and my own comfort with the Switch hardware made me drastically prefer playing on it. The same will likely always be true. You're clearly a Microsoft fanboy, so you're going to prefer comparatively substandard offerings from them, just like me with Nintendo.
None of this should be taken as a defense of Sony overall, btw. With their aggressive westernization and ridiculous censorship policies for Japanese software, I'm getting to the point where I'd rather eat nails than give them money for the PS5. We'll see.
I do have to wonder why you'd buy their console (which isn't easy to come by, clearly) when you don't really care about their games. Just want to play your PS4 games with faster loading?
@Ralizah Well, yeah, of course we're talking about what I like from Sony/consoles, not "what's the most commercially successful product for the mainstream." It's not that I don't have diverse taste including the mainstream tastes to a degree, I love the whole Assassin's Creed series for crying out loud, but I loved the PS3 more than the X360 (albeit, the 360 got a TON more playtime because the PS3 ran anything 3rd party like it was a Nintendo console.... ) precisely because Sony provided unique off-the-wall content and 360 didn't. If I were going to rate gameplay and consoles that excite me based on their mainstreamness I'd play only Fortnite on iOS and buy a PS for FIFA and COD. Or I'd just celebrate Wii and beg for Nintendogs. And idolize Sw/Sh and "Animal Crossing: Why should the chicken cross the road when there's 120m sales on this side?".
Point is Sony used to make games that appealed to me - and now under Ryan they don't. They make games that appeal to the masses and went out of their way to exclude me. They became everything people used to complain XB was, while XB is going out of their way to diversify.
So yeah, I didn' think you'd actually be excited fro Sony's lineup there...seemed otherworldly you'd be celebrating it. The whole point of PS was that they provided quality, and I don't want to say art, but art (ish), because they were a platform holder and gosh darnit they could - to have a diverse lineup. Not the greatest hits of the 90s' 00's, and today. That's what EA is for.
As for controllers....well, there's a few things there. First, you may be in trouble, because the Dual Sense is the first Sony controller I don't absolutely despise out of the box, and I can actually play for hours without the controller feeling awkward and in my way. If I don't hate it, that very likely means you will. XSX controller got smaller. DS(5) got huge. It's not The Duke huge, but it's got to be the biggest 1st party controller ever beside it. I do genuinely like both controllers this time around, for the first time, though ergonomically I do prefer the XSX controller. But that can't bode well for you.
The other thing with it is it's a pretty darned heavy controller. I haven't weight it, but without weighing it the weight feels in-hand in the range of an XB Elite v1 with NIMH batteries and the metal dpad. That's my one complaint about it really, it's definitely one of the heavier controllers I've used by a noticeable mile. The Elite may still be heavier when fully loaded - the DS(5) I can hold for hours and not notice the weight too too much whereas the Elite never quite blends itself away, but I sure notice it whenever I start playing. The XSX controller OTOH is, with NIMH batteries just the right balance and weight and ergonomically melts into my hand and becomes invisible. With the LiPo play & charge batteries it becomes a featherweight, almost too light IMO, but darned invisible and comfy, weighing in at less than Switch Pro.
I'll agree, XSX controller is boring as heck. And I'm disappointed they still did not add gyros, so we STILL can't standardize on gyro aiming. BUT while the parallel/offset sticks feel like less of an important issue than it did on past Dual Shocks (I spent weeks playing Hitman on XB, then DX:MD on PS and didn't really have adjustment issues with stick position this time), the DS5 has awkwardly high stick tension (XSX may be too slack though), and a slightly awkward girth and heft, even for someone that likes the Elite v1. Bottom line, XSX is boring, absolutely. I still give it the ergonomic nod, and, ironically, it fits smaller hands more like a DS4, while the DS5 heads toward Dukedom, albeit in a way that makes me finally more or less like a Sony controller.
Still not sold on the triggers though. I'm not planning to disable the haptics, but I'm not sold on the gimmick being that cool either. It's fun feeling the tension in spiderman swings at first, and then after a while it gets fatiguing like a finger strength trainer exercise. BUT the triggers, even with haptics off, are the best feeling triggers Sony's had to date. It's at its best when used as a gimmick like Astrobot does, or Sackboy when you pull a rope from the ground and the last, bigger ball has a buildup of tension before it pops out. It's a feature that's up to the designers to use in a way that's fun and not fatiguing. And I'm not sure I trust most designers to do that.
FWIW, MS sent out a survey a month or two ago asking about if people want to see DS5 features in their controller, so I won't rule out a controller revision, or at least DS5 features getting pulled into an Elite v3 at some point. Not too enthused if it's the latter, but we'll see. Right now I think their focus is keeping compatibility between the devices, and keep the controllers universal from X1 to XSX to phones to PCs, and a heavy gyro controller doesn't play as well with the whole phone thing. (Then again, PS5 remote play doesn't want to work with Android with my 3p controllers at all, so they may have a point.)
Hah, no, not a MS fanboy, though. I prefer their controllers, and at this point, their ecosystem. But I was Sony's customer to lose. They just....keep digging deeper to the point they've almost made me into one. I'm technically a Nintendo fanboy first Used to be Sony second, but between Sony's messups and MS's tryhard that's kind of switched. The BC alone is really the big thing though. If I buy a game on XB I know I'll probably keep that game for long, long, long time, and it will probably improve with my hardware. If I buy a game on PS (or Nintendo) I know they'll throw it in a ditch eventually. That's important to me. But it doesn't mean I'm ignoring the potential hazardous turns (like the attempt at doubling the price of Gold last month...trouble still lurks there.) I preferred XB to PS4 last gen not because "teh eksklusivz" (though let's be honest, Ori >>>>> anything Naughty Dog dumps out) - ironically from 2013-2017 I was with you guys in the "XB has no reason to exist, it has no games, they won't make another console" etc. etc. Granted, my PS4 mostly collected dust while I played 3DS, WiiU, and Switch.....but I was glad to have it for some games (like Gravity Rush 2, Last Guardian, SotC, Knack2 (I said it), basically everything they just killed........ and yeah, the 3rd party western games like AC, etc.) It wasn't until the "relaunch" that I got the XSX in 2018 and pretty much re-bought my entire PS5 3rd party library on it. I didn't get it till I owned it. And then PS4 felt suddenly backward in a lot of ways - particularly digitally) But I still loved my PS4 when I picked it up. For games like Gravity Rush 2, Last Guardian, SotC, Knack 2 (oops , I said it again), basically everything they just killed.....and then a bunch of PS2 and Vita ports brought forward. Enjoyed both.
Ultimately I'd buy everything on XB where I could, because on XB I know my games will stick with me in my library for a long time and possibly improve. PS5 BC is really....it's a Nintendo-like BC implementation. It's serviceable, and not a penny more!. And I like the controller and featureset/interface (Seriously, buy a PS5 before defending the interface....it's really dreadful. ) And since RPGs are my jam and they now have basically everyone that matters in the WRPG world short of Bioware and CDPR (do they still matter??), their games have a lot of appeal to me coming up this gen (for the first time, though I remember when 360 was briefly a JRPG powerhouse, so maybe it shouldn't feel odd.) I'm not pleased with the direction of Sony or Nintendo ATM. But Nintendo, I can't help myself, I still buy half their stuff, even if I can't figure out why I still do. Pay more for a worse version of anything 3P, and I still keep doing it. Their own games have been in decline since Iwata died, but I still buy most of them (not the ports. Rarely the ports.) I mean Astral Chain was my GOTY for the first half of last year, so..... But where MS has the preferable ecosystem (I'd say objectively...that BC thing is still a huge deal. I don't care if the mass market throws out their COD every year and replaces with the new one, the BC thing is huge when I make a purchase and I genuinely thought Sony was going to do much better going into PS5. Ryan can defend the business justification that the masses just don't care about BC all he wants, maybe in terms of how fast you can convert features to sales he's right, but long-term that's an important feature. Masses are morons, and typically young gamers, doubly so.) Anyway, where MS has the preferable ecosystem, Sony still had a lot of games that appeal to me. But now Nintendo has Nintedo games and most J-games. MS has most of the entire WRPG industry, plus experimental smaller games, which used to be Sony's bag. And Sony, just fired everyone and closed the studios that make the smaller games and are pretty clear that they won't make anything except the absolute most expensive games for the broadest of movie-going masses. So basically they announced they don't intend to make any more games I really want to play.
I still need the PS for some 3rd party stuff, and the things like Kena, but SIE as a studio pretty much openly announced they want to become Activision. That's my trouble with them. If I go down the list of Sony IPs that are active and haven't been killed that actually interest me I think I'm left with LBP/Sackboy and Ratchet....everything else is backlog material. I could be forgetting one or two. (Excluding paid exclusivity stuff from Square and the like.) It's not that I entirely dislike those games, but it's that they're not priorities. GoW and HzD are still in my backlog for crying out loud. And I just prioritized Mankind Divided, Hitman 2 & 3 , Immortals, Control, and Gravity Rush 1 & 2 replays over them. And now FFXV is actually seeming really cool (which surprises me.) So it's not just about "Japanese games" or "family games" - it's literally just games that excite me vs. games that don't.
I mean, do you realize PS4 is the first PS that doesn't even have a first party RPG?!? Nintendo and Microsoft are doing what Sonydon't. now.
But yeah, you sounded at first like you were defending their future catalogue. As for why I'd buy their hardware, well if they told me they were canning Japan Studio back in September, maybe I'd have re-thought that purchase.... IMO, Sony stayed quiet ever since Ryan took over, and he didn't show his true colors until after the PS5 preorders were in and done. He's a pivot from a diverse console for many players to focusing the brand narrowly down The Most Popular Things. IMO that's going to be destructive to the brand over 7 years. It's profitable. So was the Wii, the 2600, the 360, and the PS2. All met with disaster after the hubris at the peak.
But it's not all a wash. There's a still reasons I wanted the hardware, and only the first 3 are a wash:
1: I overestimated them and thought they'd really take the X1X to heart, bring a well thought out out BC, enhancements for PS4 games, etc. I gave them too much credit. The did a Nintendo and went cheap and lazy.
2: I was looking forward to future Japan Studio games.
3: I wanted to play my PS4 games with faster loading. Unfortunately PS5 doesn't actually load PS4 games any faster most of the time. (Know what does? XSX........)
4: A few western franchises I do care about - Ratchet, Sackboy (both delivering in the first year), plus the others/sequels that I definitely will want to play even if they're not a priority or overly exciting.
5: Improvements to select PS4 games which are worth it (GoT, GoW, still hoping for HzD.) I was encouraged by the Push Square poll where Gravity Rush 2 was the second most chosen game for a 60fps patch. It'll never happen but it means the audience there actually isn't that unaligned with me, a few vocal outliers notwithstanding.)
6: Those Japanese 3rd parties that still stick with Sony-first (Falcom, Persona series, etc.)
7: The liklihood that while Sony no longer makes the games I care much about, that they're going to moneyhat to lock down other once that SHOULD have come to other consoles so that they're magically "playstation games." And that last one probably was enough reason to buy the hardware.
8: My 4Pro was getting fritzy and I infamously got screwed out of the KH3 LE one the year before by GameStop at which point I decided to just wait for the 5....
So there's definitely enough justification to say I'm very glad I bought the machine. I definitely don't regret that part, and am glad I was able to eventually secure one through a ton of work. It was a highlight of the year (along with XSX) and I'd be pretty devastated if it hadn't come through (I'd still be using that fritzy pro after all.) And I'm far from the only PS5 buyer mostly playing PS4 backlog on it.
But while there's justification that I'm happy to have the hardware doesn't mean I'm not disgusted with the direction of SIE as a studio and Jim Ryan as a leader. I bought PS based on the Playstation that's existed since 1995, not based on the new leadership that just wants to make it part of the EA/Activision/2k trinity.
And I do think more will backfire than what the PS fanboys think for now. How many of those same fanboys were ranting about Demon's Souls as the GOAT and enough reason to buy a PS5? Guess what? That was Japan Studio..... in concert with From (originally) and in concert with Bluepoint (remake.) And when you look at bluepoint's catalog....it's almost entirely working on Japan Studio games. Bloodborne the other fanboy trumpet.....Japan Studio..... These shifts are going to hit fanboys harder than they think. What's the uptick, paying for 1 year exclusivity of the next From game? If Jim's really going for the mass-appeal box chasing money, I doubt he'll even fund those big western studios as much as people are used to. that was still Hirai/Layden/House funding those big games that released in the last 2 years. Even the ones coming next year. He'll want it to be the Fortnite/GTA box of choice, and that'll be the priority.
@BruceCM@TheJGG LOL, it didn't seem that long before I hit send. Oh well. Regardless large conversations with Ralizah and a few others go back years, so....this is normal
@NEStalgia I feel like I have mild credibility in that I own a PC, a PlayStation and a Switch. I'm by no means authoritarian but I'm not entirely clueless if you get my drift. Despite the obvious disappointment that was 2020 for videogames (minus the obvious spectacles that were Hades, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Animal Crossing, Ghost of Tsushima, Hyrule Warriors: AoC, Persona 5 Royal, and to some extent experiencing Death Stranding during a pandemic) I feel like Nintendo almost takes top honours in the fight for "best game output of 2020", but that Sony's right on their heels, and in some divisions, are ahead.
I didn't expect some of the things we got this year from Nintendo. Sony tend to plan very far ahead, whereas Nintendo can reveal a massive game and release it all in the same year, think back to Smash. Age of Calamity, Pikmin 3, and even the Mario 3D All-Stars collection. That was sparked by a leak that happened in April 2020. It was officially revealed about 15 days before release. Their windows are absolutely tiny in that sense.
On that note, the State of Play showcases have always felt like Nintendo Direct copies. Every major studio has turned to this format for wide ranges of showcases, and Nintendo pioneered this whole movement nine years before it became trendy. And though I didn't really pay attention to Directs until they were almost left for dead starting March 2020, they always had more power than any other showcase.
The State of Plays don't give the impression that major titles would get revealed in them. FF7R Intergrade wasn't a major game; it was an expansion. Returnal we already knew about. Same with Kena, and Deathloop. That lack of new content, suggests that Sony want to use this format as a "recap". That... sucks.
The minor fanbase got a decent haul from Nintendo, with the near infinite playloop that is Animal Crossing. I never got into it as much I could have but I've seen the effect that game has on people. It would have been a very different story if this game released in 2018 or 2019, because the element of escapism would have applied more to children than... working adults too. Because everyone is at home there's a greater need for escapism. Which makes adventure games all the more relevant.
Death Stranding... God I can't believe how well it managed to predict a pandemic. I got it for Christmas 2020, and it felt no different to going outside. Granted the coronavirus itself could be swapped out for anti-matter BTs but the element of danger with invisible enemies was very much there. Being alone, walking through the country, with hauntingly beautiful LOW ROAR music playing, is something I never thought I'd need.
But Hideo Kojima's tastes in a way are more infectious than any disease (barring the new strain of course) could ever hope to be, because he, a developer whose games I had never even thought about playing, turned out to have such relevant and relatable themes. I read about how some Metal Gear games addressed the danger of fake news; that must have looked like a joke to people in the early 2000s, who still believed that random kid online who said his uncle was Bill Gates.
I already made posts on gratuitous violence but Ghost of Tsushima straddles this line. At times it could have been cleaner but at others it could have been worse. Not that the violence detracted from the experience. It really strengthened it actually.
And Persona 5 Royal, one of my games of the year. I played it first in June and I thought to myself after an hour or two; "where's this been all my life?" And at times I question why it took me that long to get into Persona, a series that retrospectively felt like a perfect fit for my gaming style and interests.
I'm really irked by the direction Sony have taken with their management of Japan Studio, a team which had been really good at supplemental roles. That they're now centred around Team Asobi, who created one good game, and now want to build a series, a brand, an ICON after Astrobot... I can't see that happening. There's so much charm and potential but Astrobot should be a PlayStation avatar. Like... I dunno, Sonic. Except get rid of the part where they give him a shadow self and realistic gun mechanics.
Edit: Ahhhh shoot. I didn't even write one third of NEStalgia's post. I cede.
Sorry if this was clarified somewhere else in this thread, i dont have the opportunity to search - but when switching from PS4 to PS5 can you transfer your save data from games? Also, is the PS4 backwards compatibility universally better? Or are there some games that play functionally the same or worse? Any input appreciated, thanks.
Switch friend code: SW-2223-7827-8798
Give me a heads-up if you're going to send a request please.
@Losermagnet It's on a game by game basis. It seems anecdotally like most games do not carry over saves (which is ridiculous...but it is what it is.) Spiderman released without saves carrying over, but I believe they patched it so that it does. A lot of games don't.
BC for the most part just emulates a PS4 Pro. So if you had base PS4 you'll see an upgrade to most games that launched post 2016, and nothing on most games that launched earlier. If you had a Pro it'll be basically the same, though any game that had a boost patch that still failed to reach solid framerates should (Nioh2 before it had the real PS5 upgrade for example.) Most games run exactly as they always did (on a Pro.) Select games have smoother performance or enhanced performance (God of War, Tsushima, etc.)
@NEStalgia
Did you know what is my plan for PlayStation games on this year ?
Getting Beatmania IIDX & Pop'n Music games on PS2 with Pop'n Music controller for PS1 / PS2 !
PS2 have tons of hidden gems and diamonds and i found a lot of diamonds from Konami's Rhythm games on PS2.
WooHoo...!!! 😁😁😁
Time to build my Arcade at home games.
Edit: Oh, if you noticed my avatar, that was a cover of Beatmania IIDX 13 DistorteD. 😉
@Losermagnet@NEStalgia You can transfer saves for nearly every single game. If you play a different edition on PS5, let's say Control UE, you can't use the save date of Control. They are effectively treated as different games. But for the vast majority of games, it works perfectly fine.
@Octane@Losermagnet Good point, I was thinking about the PS5 "Upgrade" games like Control, FF7R, Spiderman, Nioh 2, etc. Pure BC games, the saves do transfer (although strangely the cloud saves didn't transfer for me for unknown reasons. Presumably the Pro was never uploading them. BC games, the machine is mostly just a PS4 emulator (possibly with an extra boost mode). "Upgrade" games are seen as entirely new games most of the time (that's the part that doesn't make any sense.)
@NEStalgia Depends. There are a few games that have 'dedicated' PS5 versions, but for most it's just a patch. Days Gone or God of War for example, those are just patches, and you can use your PS4 save file.
For BC games without a patch, it runs them like a PS4 Pro. However, if the game has an unlocked frame rate or resolution, it will boost those of course.
@Octane Yeah, it's very hit or miss. It's still sad we have to have this conversation. (Goes back to my point 1 above, I really overestimated them and thought they'd come out with a really nice BC solution....what's here is very very Nintendo...which isn't a compliment, much as I adore Nintendo...)
"Most games" are just unenhanced PS4 emu with saves.
Some games are unintentionally enhanced (meaning they were unlocked but Pro still didn't have power to have a steady 60fps)
Some games are intentionally enhanced (GoW, GoT, etc) with a true unlock patch for high quality mode.
All of those, the saves carry over.
Some are PS5 upgrades. Spiderman (sold separately), Miles, Sackboy, Control, FF7R (not yet released), Cyberpunk (eventually), Nioh 2, etc. Those mostly don't carry the saves over. Spiderman was eventually patched to carry the saves (I think.)
It's TECHNICALLY not that much of a mess, but it's still a mouthful to try to sort out when someone asks a simple question like "hey do my old games upgraded on PS5 carry the saves" and the best answer is "maybe, or maybe not, it depends...."
@NEStalgia@Octane thanks for the info. I'd love to have the performance boost of the PS5, but if the difference in most cases between it and a pro is negligible then I doubt I would notice. That, and if it didn't transfer the saves over that would be an adamant "no" from me (good thing it does). I am not playing through Persona 5 again without my compendium info.
I plan on upgrading...but only after i've squirrelled away enough cash. PS5 seems like it's missing a great launch title. If i bought one today I'd go with Demons Souls, but as a new fan to the series i'm not that excited about it.
@NEStalgia You can also transfer saves for Sackboy. It's mostly up to the dev if there are two versions. Remedy/505 could've chosen to allow you to transfer saves, but they didn't for some reason.
I don't really see how it's complicated. For 99.9% of the games it works just like any other BC. Some are enhanced, great, some aren't. But you can always play the game. It only gets complicated if you own both the PS4 version and the PS5 version and you want to transfer a PS4 save to the PS5 and continue playing with the PS5 version. Those are done on a game by game basis. I don't have a game where I own both versions, and I don't see the need to, so I don't have experience with that.
@Losermagnet If you already own a PS4 Pro, the difference for most games isn't that big. I think maybe PushSquare has a list of games that are enhanced on PS5.
@Octane thanks. Based on your info I'm thinking waiting will be the best option. Not likely that I'd find a PS5 anyway. I am glad to know that it's not as inconvenient as I feared with BC.
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