@skywake "They block manual save backups, I mentioned this before."
Yes but they give cloud space for free because of that.
Yes, but they block it. How they package their subscription is beside the point. They block manual backups of saves for the exact same reasons Nintendo does.
Having noSD card backup would protect toa degree against hacking. But they justify having not even an internet browser because of hacking, tell me how can an internet browser be used to hacka console?
All "hacks" amount to the same thing. You get the hardware running unauthorized code. Browsers are probably the easiest way to do this because in a browser you can point to whatever you want. I mean holy crap if you think browsers are not an attack vector. Where have you been for the last 30 years!?
@DannyBoi
What's there to prove? They block it, we know the reasons why they might. And with MS you can't run the "greedy" bs either because they don't charge.
Also, FYI. There's a site that lists all the 3DS exploits. I can't link here but here are the major types:
Savegame: 19
Browser: 3
Other apps: 1
Wi-Fi: 1
DS/DSi: 2
@skywake How someone packages their subscription is NOT beside the point.
I prefer manual backups instead of forced cloud backups, but I couldn't accuse Microsoft of being dishonest or unfair even if what they offer is not my favourite solution because at least they try to give a free alternative.
It is not what I prefer, but they are giving customers an alternative since they are the one who decided to block manual backups for their own safety. They knew it was unfair for their customers so they tried to give them an alternative in return.
Nintendo on the other hand is not selling anymore their older games (that are very popular still today) and are locking them behind the subscription just like the save backups. This clearly shows what they are trying to do with this subscription.
It is even stupid, I mean, today in 2018 how many gamers are like me and don't like to play online? I mean it's not like they could increase a lot the number of subscriptions anyway, most customers would have paid just to play online anyway and they would have even gained more money from the Virtual console games sold.
But they preferred to make customers angry and lose the income of Virtual console to sell an amount of additional subscriptions that probably will be extremely limited in number at best, if not completely non-existant at all (I for example am not going to pay it, and I am one of those people that they tried to fool and convince to pay it with backups and Virtual consoles. They did not convince me they only made me hate them)
@LuckyLand
You don't have an argument you have a vendetta. Over pennies. If you really wanted to you could find a list of tiny annoyances for any of these four platforms and package them like this. Doesn't make what you're saying correct
@skywake I will be honest, maybe it is a personal thing. People complained about past Nintendo consoles that had issues that I did not care about. For example I was fine with the Wii working in low resolution, I of course was absoilutely fine when other people complained about Nintendo online on previous consoles was not good enough (who cares? I hate it anyway ) but this time instead is something I really care about.
I mean, I know you can criticize Nintendo for many things even in other consoles, but until now it was either something that I did not care about and did not mind on consoles that I really loved (Gamecube, Wii) or consoles that I just did not like themselves (like the DS and Wii U) so even when I did not like something it was not like they were ruining something good, it was just that they made something not good in the first place for me in those cases. With Switch they made something I would immensely love, I want to love, but they ruined it and forced me to hate it instead. That's why I react that bad probably.
I know Nintendo was not the most honest and fair company out there in the past, but it is just that in the past there were always issues that did not bother me so I was fine anyway. This is a new feeling for me and for sure I don't like it.
With the Switch, Nintendoare being anti consumer. I can Guarantee that if they allowed SD card backup, the hacking would be nowhere near as bad as they say it is.
Just making a point of a few things here, just so everything is in black and white for all to see. These are things we all know and, IMO, have to agree on here about Nintendo's approach to online & saves:
1. Nintendo is charging a fraction of what their competitors are
I don't know about international pricing but based on local pricing? Nintendo is charging under half what Sony and Microsoft charge for their online services. In addition to that Nintendo offers a family subscription which allows for upto 8 users for 1.5x the price of a single user plan. You can shout that it should still be free as much as you want but when it's that much cheaper and they were the last to do it I find it hard to call them greedy
2. Save game exploits are a thing and Nintendo aren't the only ones to try and lock this down
As mentioned a few times in this thread Microsoft also don't allow manual backups of saves. This is usually the first and easiest way to exploit hardware and it's also fairly user friendly. As I understand it the only current exploit for the Switch involves attacking via the USB Type C port via an application that runs on Windows. This has to be run every time the console boots and Nintendo are currently releasing a new version of the Switch which isn't vulnerable to this attack. If you happen to buy this new revision? There is no current way to hack it.
Now this doesn't mean that Nintendo has to then charge for cloud saves. Not at all. But it certainly goes a long way to explain why cloud saves are the only option this time around for two of the big three. There's a reason why the 3DS got so many firmware updates for "stability" that it became a running joke. It had to be updated super regularly because Nintendo was in a constant arms race against piracy.
3. Nintendo aren't charging more for legacy content under this new model
I'm 100% with the group of people who liked the VC as it was on previous consoles. But at the same time I don't at all believe that the subscription is a way to get more money for classic content. At the price they are charging for online for a single user? With AU pricing:
1 year = 6 NES VC games
1 year = 2 N64 VC games
3 years = 1 NES Mini
4 years = 1 SNES Mini
Now I think they should still offer classic games on the eShop as a one off purchase sort of thing not at all tied to the subscription. It makes sense both for me as a consumer and also for Nintendo because the VC was a far more profitable model. And you know what? They kinda already do have classic games on the Switch eShop.
@DannyBoi Nintendo always gained a lot of money from the software sales of their succesful consoles even if they always were the easiest to hack
I understand that they want to protect themselves and have the right to do so, but everything considered they should try to balance that with some respect towards their users
I understand that it is not a good thing for you if your consoles gets pirated even if you still earn a lot of money because it is like you lose your credibility, of course, I understand that, but if you make your customers angry to avoid something that has never really been too harmful to yourself things can get much worse.
That said, I'm sure that Nintendo is not doing this to protect themselves and their rights but to fool single player only customers instead.
And it is just as LuckyLand says, if a company is doing something to protect themselves from piracy and hacking(Nintendo not allowing SD card/local backup) and fans are avoiding that console because a feature is not included(Such as no lcal backup in Nintendo's case) then it does not make the company look foward thinking or consumer friendly.
I am one of those who bought it and I haven't sold it, I don't think I will sell it either at least not in the near future, and at first I bought a lot of software for it, but still I am not happy with how Nintendo manages Switch and I stopped buying software for it except very few exclusives several months ago.
If numbers will continue to be that strong even in the future then you could be right, but right now we cannot really know how many people are angry against Nintendo because of this problem
I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee
The truth is, Nintendo could easily add SD card save backup in an update, but because of their fear of hacking, they won't. I gaurantee that if they did add it, hacking would occur, but almost definitley would not affect the console as badly as Nintenso say it would. If they do add it, and it does affect the console badly(due to hacking) you can laugh ad poke fun at me whenever you want. My console is actually somewhat in need of a repair now, due to heat troubles the part in between the screen and joycon rail has raised(poking out) but I will not dare send it off for fear of losing all that data. If it was to be added, I could send it off with no fear. It is ridicolous that Nintendo wouldmake people fear losing data like this. Why should people have to fear losing save data like this all because a basic feature has been removed because of some primitive fear of hackers hacking their console? I used to religously back up data on the Wii using an SD card(like every day) so I would definitley use it, as would other oeople such as LuckyLand. Nintendo need to stoo this and stop controlling what can be done with save data. Save data is ours, and ours alone. Nintendo need to let our saves be free and allowus basic control of our saves like they have done in the past and likeother consoles do.
The truth is, Nintendo could easily add SD card save backup in an update, but because of their fear of hacking, they won't. I gaurantee that if they did add it, hacking would occur, but almost definitley would not affect the console as badly as Nintenso say it would
Nintendo would know exactly how bad It was on 3ds, Wii U and Wii. How much resources they put int counter piracy measures that could have been used on things we actually want. But at least you, kinda, accept the reality of the situation now.
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
@skywake Wii gave me almost everything I wanted. The only things it did not gave me and I wanted (more/better 1VS1 fighting games and racing games) were because of the classic controller never became at least as important as the motion controls were, so people usually did not dare to put a lot of effort for this kind of games on Wii, it was not because they had not enough money.
Honestly they put a lot of money in ugly advertisements that showed games intended for the casual audience and gave the Wii a bad name instead of showing awesome games like Mario Galaxy, Trauma center, Endless Ocean 2, No more heroes 2 and so on that could have made more people aware of what the Wii really was.
It is extremely obvious that when Nintendo make a succesful console is able to make a lot of money with it anyway, even if there is piracy.
Nintendo made a lot of unsuccesful consoles too, and the reason why they are still here despite that is because when they are able to make something that people really like people put really a lot of money into it, and they earn a lot. It's the only possible explanation and also what I see everyday. I see many people buying Nintendo games often when I go in stores. I almost never hear about people who play pirated games, and sometimes when I hear about that it is something so uncommon that are people who ask (for example on forums without realizing that they will probably get banned) how to hack the console.
This means that today piracy in videogames is not common at all even when it is possible.
I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee
@LuckyLand
What a load of nonsense. Nintendo's entire existence as a console maker is in large part because of their anti-piracy stance. You know that "Nintendo Seal of Quality"? That was literally born out of Nintendo trying to differentiate themselves from Atari who literally went bankrupt because of non-licenced games. Even the N64 and the way that they clung to cartridges, that again was in part because of their fear of how much easier it was to make pirated copies of discs. Which wasn't that crazy given that piracy was part of the reason why the Dreamcast failed against the PS2.
Is it a huge part of the gaming community? Well no, and it never has been. But the fact that it's as small as it is largely because of how companies like Nintendo have put energy into fighting it. I can tell you now, 10-15 years ago it was a much, much bigger part of gaming than it is now.
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
" piracy was part of the reason why the Dreamcast failed against the PS2"
This is nonsense. Dreamcast failed because nobody trusted Sega anymore and everybody had a lot of fun with PS1 and was excited about PS2 because of that. I'm not even sure if people would have liked DC games. I for example like only Rez. Nobody had any faith on Sega and nobody wanted to take the risk of buying a new Sega console, and I don't even think that Dreamcast games were that great. Sonic Adventure is one of the worst Sonic games I've ever tried.
The fact that Dreamcast failed, and the fact that the failure of Dreamcast forced Sega to stop making consoles is only Sega's own fault, they were never able to make a strong and reliable strategy and capitalize on their IPs like Nintendo have always done, that's why Sega failed and Nintendo did not.
I used to be a ripple user like you, then I took The Arrow in the knee
Part of the reason. I don't think it's a point that should be dismissed lightly that the two consoles that failed so hard they took down companies had issues with piracy. More than their competitors. No CEO of any video game company is going to give up entirely on the fight as you're suggesting Nintendo should.
And I know all of the pro piracy excuses. I've been a peddler of that bs more than most. But when push comes to shove? Companies don't want to lose control of their sales. They have this odd habit of being protective of the sale of products they are producing.....
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
I'm absolutely NOT suggesting that Nintendo should give up entirely on the fight against piracy, as I said I just think that they should balance this fight with the respect that honest customers deserve.
It's not like they must stop any activity against piracy, they just should imo avoid to push things so far to the point that their honest legitimate customers have a worsened experience with the consoles/products they buy.
Also if piracy is so harmful why it didn't such a big damage with both the Wii and the PS1?
I think that expecially today (even more than in the past) gamers that really are passionate about games are the ones who spend the most and make the companies earn the most and those people want to have the original product. Sometimes they even want both the original AND a pirated copy as a backup but still they buy the original game anyway and make the company earn what they deserve.
People who are fine with only the pirated copy are usually people that would not buy games anyway. For them it is not "Buy the original game or get the pirated one" but it is "Get the pirated game or nothing at all because who cares those things are stupid anyway"
I understand that this is not a good thing and it damages somehow Nintendo, but at the same time if Nintendo care more about fighting piracy than the functionality of their consoles and how much enjoyable their consoles are the damage will end up being a lot worse.
Here is my view and what I believe Nintendo should do about SD card save backup. Nintendo are absolutley right to stoopiracy and hacking on the Nintendo Switch. However, because they are not allowing SD card backup, it is creating a problem like I and Luckyland have said. If Nintendo allow it, there wouldbe more hacking/piracy,how bad is impossible to say. If they keep on not allowing it, people will continue to complain, even ahen cloud save comes. Now, if Nintendo were to allow it, like Luckyland said, they would need to find a balance. In my opinion and what I believe Nintendo should do is this: Nintendoshould add SD card save backup in a sytsem update. As for how copying save data to an SD card would work is that you would go to where your save data is stored then select the save data you want to copy( like Lego City Undercover) and then select copy which would then copy it to the SD card. The data that you copy to the SD card would then be tied to your Nintendo Network account which would then only allow it to be used on a console with your account. And as for how to prevent hacking/piracy when SD card backupis allowed, the save data should be encrypted and not allowed to be modified if the SD card is inserted into a computer. And if the SD card is inserted into a console with any code or programme that is not recognised by the console, then you get a permanent account ban or your console breaks. I hope you likemy suggestion and please comment.
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Topic: Why the Nintendo Switch needs SD card save data backup
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