Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

So, with Metroid Fusion on the way to NSO this week, I thought I'd pick up some 2D Metroid. I'm new to the series, having previously only played Dread, Zero Mission and Samus Returns (so 5 -> 1 -> 2), so Super Metroid (3) felt like the obvious next step.

And I'm finding it...okay, I guess?

Like, I can really appreciate it for what it was at the time, but there are so many things about it that I find frustrating. Mostly this boils down to the controls (how clunky it is to press select/minus to cycle through weapons, the overly vertical jump, the wall jumping, the grappling) and just how cryptic everything is. I can't imagine having played this without a guide and NSO's rewind function - I would've long given up without these.

Overall, I think Dread is the only game I've played in the series that I would call "great". Zero Mission and Super Metroid feel a bit too tedious and archaic for my tastes and, while I did enjoy Samus Returns, it overall just pales in comparison to Dread.

I will give Fusion a try but maybe it's time I accept that I'm just not that into old-school 2D Metroid. I like it in concept, but I feel I've been a bit spoiled by modern Metroidvanias and the evolution of control schemes and QoL features over time.

I for one don't give a monkeys what they call it. It's the people that didn't buy a Wii U because they thought it was a Wii I'm concerned about. Maybe they should call it something different to Switch all together. Just in case.

@buizel, @Grumblevolcano, @JaxonH e @Jump, for Nintendo next hardware is crucial for Nintendo to name the console with a name that make even the casual players understand this console is a true sucessor of Nintendo Switch, not a mid gen console or a acessory, like the PS4 Pro or the Wii U as Nintendo marketing made many casual players think, it marketing must be crystal clear, whenever the name of the Nintendo Switch sucessor is, is a true sucessor of the console.

@Buizel
I'm a diehard Metroid fan, and even I have trouble going back to Super. The dated controls, floaty jump and difficult navigation is a bit much for me.

But Zero Mission has none of those faults. The controls are excellent (not as good as Dread, obviously- there's no free aim or slide), the jump is quick and responsive, you can grab ledges, its not confusing... alongside Fusion I'd say it's the pinnacle of 2D Metroid in the pre-Dread era. I wouldn't lump in the same group as Super Metroid. Not to say Super isn't also a masterpiece (before I get lynched) but it's one of its time, whereas I think Fusion and Zero Mission are still masterpieces by today's standards.

Fusion is like Zero Mission but it's a bit more linear as it explicitly states where to go next, objective to objective- you just have to find your way there.

Imo, Dread is on another level. It's my favorite 2D Metroid of all time. But Fusion and Zero Mission are still up there. Samus Returns is an incredible remake, it's just that... the source material was the worst entry in the franchise so there's only so much you can do. Still, compared to the original GameBoy release, it's magnificent by comparison. The added map, quick travel spots and entirely new areas with redone graphics and mechanics make it feel like a new game. It's only next to Dread that it feels inferior. It may not be my favorite Metroid but it's still a gosh darn good game in its own right.

But Dread and the Prime Trilogy are the best there is (with Prime 2 being my favorite of the trilogy, but all three are exceptionally good games). Fusion and Zero Mission I'd put a notch below Dread. Then Samus Returns, then Super (if it had better controls and precision movement like Zero Mission I'd rank it on par with Fusion and Zero Mission, unfortunately those aspects hold it back, for me anyways).

My rankings would be:

Prime 1 > Prime 2 > Prime 3 > Fusion > Dread > Hunters > Super > Federation Force > Metroid (NES)

Haven't played Zero Mission or any form of Metroid II (while I did buy Samus Returns day 1, my 3DS wasn't in a good enough shape to play most 3DS games including it). Other M I bought on Wii U VC out of interest for how bad it was but never got around to playing it. Pinball is too different to put in a tier with everything else.

Fusion I put just above Dread given I feel the SA-X sections in Fusion were handled better than the EMMI sections in Dread but the overall games are still very close.

I'm struggling to click with Prime a bit, which is sad for me as I can appreciate fully that it is an 'objectively' good game... and the remaster quality is really quite fantastic.

Which is strange, as I absolutely adore Dread and everything about it. I love having my ass handed to me by several of the bosses, especially the last one(!), and the general tone of the game was great. It was wonderful also to have a tight 8-10 hour experience, and the whole game felt incredibly streamlined from start to finish.

But Prime... just feels like a bit of a slog at times? Fast travel would be a game changer, but also I feel the difficulty curve isn't there either. I appreciate the irony of playing a metroid game and whinging about backtracking, but the backtracking really does feel excessive. I'm 3-4 hours in, but think I'll park it for now and try to come back to it (play from the start) at later date.

Maybe worth noting I came to Prime having just finished off Inscryption - which is/was one of the most unique and incredible gaming experiences I've had!

@JaxonH My main issue with Zero Mission IIRC was the map layout. Also wasn't too keen on the ending sequence as Zero Suit Samus, but that's just me. I also found the bosses to be downright brutal. Dread struck a good balance of the bosses being challenging but also feeling like you had the tools at your disposal to beat them --- whereas I honestly don't find combat all that fun in pre-MercurySteam Metroids.

Fusion does sound a bit more up my alley, which is why I'm willing to give it a try. I think I might be burnt out a bit after Super Metroid though, so I probably won't play it on release.

@CJD87
Prime is built around backtracking. You'll revisit the 5 main areas several times. However, each time you're pushing through into new unexplored areas, except in a few cases where you're temporarily passing through on your way to another area.

The thing you have to do with Prime is, adjust your mindset. I know modern gaming has conditioned us to get what we want immediately, especially those of us in the microwave generation, but for Prime ya just gotta go with the flow and enjoy the ride wherever it takes you. Use the opportunities to keep an eye out for new secrets, mentally map where you need to come back later once you've obtained an upgrade, and just have fun soaking in the world. Don't feel like you need to rush to get where you wanna go. Just pace yourself and make it from save point to save point, taking it one stretch at a time.

All that said, I do expect Prime 4 to offer fast travel in a similar vein to Dread. As a matter of fact, both Prime 2 and Prime 3 had limited forms of fast travel. Prime 1 is the only one that didn't.

Even so, as long as you hit the Artifact Room in Tallon Overworld and scan the artifact statues to get hints on their locations, you can scoop them up as you play the game normally and won't have to worry about making a big round robin gathering quest at the end of the game. I've already collected 10 of the 12, and am in the final area for the last 2, and I plan to grab them on my way through.

@Buizel
Definitely play Prime Remastered, if you haven't already. It's up there with Dread as one of the best Metroid games and by extension, one of my favorite games of all time. Fusion is part of NSO+ and will be waiting for you any time.

@JaxonH Definitely considering picking up Prime, but I'm actually challenging myself to not spend any money on games for a few weeks (maybe even until Zelda is out) as an opportunity to both save money and maybe getting through some of the back log.

Rest assured that it's near the top of my list though. I do have the Trilogy on Wii U so worst case I could give that a go. I didn't quite get along with the controls though...

Wii U name was sound funny for me to see what happened to its sales.
Wii U name sounds like Wee U Wee U Wee U Wee U.... (Ambulance alarm). 😆
And it described exactly the danger situation of Wii U sales.
Lesson for Nintendo, don't give a name that sounds like a danger situation.

@Buizel
Controls have long been the Achilles Heel of the Prime games. The Wii Trilogy motion controls felt better than the original GC controls at the time, but compared to modern control schemes they're simply insufficient, and have always been the one thing I worried about when recommending the games to others. Remastered fixes this issue with flying colors.

What kind of power does everyone seem to think the Switch Z will have ?

Im guessing something similar to steamdeck in handheld and maybe Xbox one docked. Seriously doubt it will do any 4k outside of titles using DLSS. Which is what I assume they will be using as all arrows point to Nvidia developing the console along with Nintendo. Which is fine because my ideal of fun does not include buying a game and then downloading a 71Gb patch (Atomic Heart).

Guessing it will have a 720p screen (oled?) which is fine for handheld if the screen stays the same size.

My hopes ? 12-16gb of ram, 512Gb of internal storage and better joycons lol. No usual Nintendo gimmicks please

Price point ? 399.99

@TheBigBlue Switch U

@TheBigBlue
The difference is, Switch doesn't have the same casual demographic Wii and DS had. That ship has sailed. While it undoubtedly does still have "casual gamers", they're more akin to the kind of casual gamers found on PS and Xbox. And they buy new systems every generation.

I don't think they're going to have that issue going forward. The install base is much more tuned in than the grandmas of the Wii. If PS and Xbox can do it with their casual user base, so can Nintendo with their Switch user base.

Nintendo Zwitch will be the name.

@TheBigBlue imagine if that's the real name lol

@Kermit1 That would be the only way I actually buy the next console

4K isn't some magic thing you need some arbitrary level of horsepower to reach. It's just a resolution. The ability to reach it will depend heavily on what you're trying to render. On my 1660Ti I can hit 4K for even farily modern games if I adjust my expectations in terms of detail and frame rate. For 360 era titles 4K is pretty easy to achieve, for 2D stuff 4K can be done on a potato

So Mario Kart 8 with a patch to do 4K 60 native? Sure. Smash Bros? Easy. TotK?.... maybe they lean on DLSS for that one. Doom? Maybe with some dynamic resolution and detail scaling

@skywake Oh yes I agree but Im thinking we might see more native 1080p/60 with dlss games than 4k/60.
In all likely hood it will still be a hybrid using cartridge format which lowers game size because Nintendo's cards magically cost more than everything lol not too mention limited storage capacity.

@old-dad
We've kinda hit the point where capacity isn't really that much of a limitation for cartridges anymore. If you plot the highest capacity cartridges sold on Nintendo consoles over time vs the largest capacity commercial optical media formats this is the graph you get:

As it stands right now the highest capacity Switch cartridge is 64GB and the highest capacity BluRay disk is 100GB. Theoretically cartridges in the form factor of the Switch will overtake the BluRay discs supported by the PS5 during in the next few years. Ten years from now cartridges will theoretically be larger than even a theoretical optical media. And even if this wasn't the case, these days it's not uncommon for a large chunk of the game to not be in the physical package you buy in the shops anyways

There's a similar sort of trend if you plot the price of flash vs mechanical HDDs. NAND in general improves at a faster rate than other media. Eventually we will get to the point where SSDs are cheaper per GB than HDDs. ATM it's something around 4X the cost for an SSD vs a HDD, 10 years ago from memory it was something more like 20X

Also, you can render stuff at a higher resolution without higher resolution assets and you can render at lower resolutions with higher resolution assets. The two don't necessarily follow. I would think something like the Metroid Prime remaster as it is would look pretty great rendered at 4K with no changes to its assets

edit: for those interested, this graph above suggests that we should be at the point where 1TB optical media is possible. Well technically.... maybe not far off that being a thing. Whether or not it makes any sense to consumers given 8K is stupid, AV1 exists and Netflix/Disney/etc is how people consume movies these days? Not so sure