@FragRed
I know you didn't direct your question to me, but I think I can bring some clarification. Let me just paste from a source to give you all the info:
"Nvidia Ampere is a microarchitecture for Nvidia’s 3000-Series generation of graphics cards. This means you’ll find it in GPUs such as the RTX 3090, RTX 3080, RTX 3070, RTX 3060.
Nvidia named the microarchitecture after French mathematician and physicist André-Marie Ampère. It first launched in May 2020.
For Nvidia’s consumer graphics cards, Ampere uses a 8nm process node from Samsung, which is a noticeable upgrade on the 12nm process node found in the preceding Nvidia Turing generation – having a smaller process node generally results in a higher performance.
The Nvidia Ampere generation was the first to offer support for GDDR6X memory, while also introducing third-generation Tensor Cores and second-generation ray tracing cores.
Ampere not only supports ray tracing, but DLSS too. This is Nvidia’s Deep Learning Super Sampling, using artificial intelligence and upscaling techniques to boost the frame-rate performance of any supported game with minimal compromises to the graphics quality."
Of course, each year Nvidia releases new GPUs, and along with them comes new architecture. The 4000 series has moved on to Lovelace. But that's PC for you- constantly evolving each year.
As for the T239 chip:
"Tegra T239 is expected to be a customised version of Tegra T234, which NVIDIA codenamed Orin. Currently, Tegra T239's codename is unknown, although kopite7kimi noted that 'Black Knight' is actually the codename's codename.
If the Tegra T239 is a customised Tegra T234, it should be based on NVIDIA's Ampere architecture. Reputedly, the Tegra T239 will contain 2,048 CUDA cores, up from 256 shader cores in the Maxwell-based Tegra X1. Nominally, the Tegra T239 should deliver 4 TFLOPs of performance too, a 10x increase on the Switch's current 0.4 TFLOP output."
Keep in mind, that statement at the end is not accounting for the fact it would also be downclocked similar to current Switch, to conserve battery. So I wouldn't expect a 10x increase. But 4-5x? Absolutely.
Here's what was said recently concerning the T239:
"An Nvidia employee has confirmed the existence of the Tegra239 chip, which has been rumored since 2021 as the SoC being developed for the Nintendo Switch 2.
According to the Nvidia employee, Nvidia has added support for the Tegra239 SoC, the likely SoC for Nintendo Switch 2, which has eight cores in a single cluster. In addition, the SoC manufacturer has moved num_clusters to soc data in order to avoid always over allocating memory for four clusters.
The claim made by reliable NVIDIA leaker kopite7kimi that Nvidia will use a modified version of its T234 Orin chip for the next-generation Switch is further supported by this revelation.
As of this information, the following details can be inferred about the Nintendo Switch 2 console:"
T239 SoC
8-core CPU
Ampere-based GPU that may incorporate some Lovelace features
The 2nd generation Nintendo Switch graphics API contains references to DLSS 2.2 and raytracing support
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH Ray-tracing on a hybrid console? very unlikely to happen, considering Sony e Xbox Series X/S is having trouble using this tecnology, too memory intensive for a console that is gonna have a graphical/techinal power equivalent to a PS4.
@Giancarlothomaz
Again, we've had this discussion just a few days ago.
It has the theoretical capability to do raytracing. Tensor Cores for DLSS can also do raytracing. That doesn't mean it's actually going to be used.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
Raytracing requires Tensor Cores. If you don't have those Tensor Cores, it's impossible to do raytracing with Nvidia GPUs.
So the current Nintendo Switch, it has no Tensor Cores. Therefore, raytracing is impossible.
The T239 chip for Switch 2 is based on Ampere architecture which does have Tensor Cores. Therefore, it is theoretically possible to do raytracing with it, unlike the current Switch.
That doesn't mean it will do raytracing, though. Having the theoretical capability to do something doesn't mean it's practically realistic. Raytracing requires a lot of power, which is precious in a hybrid device. So I would not expect games on Switch 2 to have raytracing. But that doesn't change the fact it has Tensor Cores which are capable of it.
So why include Tensor Cores if they're not gonna be used for Raytracing? Because that's not the only thing they're good for. They're also required for DLSS upscaling, and that is what they will be used for.
But that doesn't mean no game will ever use them to implement basic raytracing. It's possible some basic raytraced reflections at 1080p combined with DLSS could happen in a few games. I seriously doubt we'll ever see raytraced lighting and shadows though. But it could happen. The point is, the chip is capable of it, irrespective of whether there's enough power to use in a practical sense.
Nobody is saying the Switch 2 will have games that utilize raytracing. It probably won't. But it is at least theoretically possible because the chip meets all the requirements necessary to implement it. Personally, I think it's a waste of resources on a hybrid device- it's one thing to implement on a power console where you can pull hundreds of watts without consequence. It's another thing entirely to implement on a device where every watt counts. But again, there are different kinds of raytracing- lighting, shadows, reflections, etc. And some types draw more power than others. So it's always possible we see at least a few games that implement some basic form of it in a less demanding game when docked. But I wouldn't expect it.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
Ray tracing has been around for ages as I remember it being a big thing on the Amiga in the late 80s / early 90s. But according to Wikipedia, it has, conceptually at least, been around for a little longer - the 16th century..!
Ray tracing has been around for ages as I remember it being a big thing on the Amiga in the late 80s / early 90s. But according to Wikipedia, it has, conceptually at least, been around for a little longer - the 16th century..!
8k has been around for even longer, it says here it existed in the early 12th century.
@Giancarlothomaz
Also, raytracing really hasn't had much of an impact in the console space with regard to how games look. A few games have implemented it like Spiderman on PS5, but you need to comb through side by side analysis just to see the differences.
The big impact Tensor Cores will have on Switch 2 is DLSS 2.2
That is going to have a massive effect on how games look and run. Because games can be internally rendered at 1080p and upscaled with DLSS to 4k, that means Switch 2 will be able to output resolutions matching PS5/XSX despite being a hybrid system approximately 1 generation behind in power. Basically, advancements in technology will allow Switch 2 to punch far above its class. So even though technically, on paper, it's about on par with a PS4, in practice it'll output games with visual fidelity more in line with a PS4 Pro. Which is absolutely insane for a hybrid console.
Unfortunately, the other big technological advancement made in recent years, VRR, will likely not be implemented on Switch 2. Variable Refresh Rate is a technology where, if the screen is VRR-compatible, it can dynamically fluctuate the refresh rate to match the framerate of the game. I don't think it works well for 30fps but for 60fps it does- I use it on my PC connected to my TV and run everything at 4k 60fps with VRR enabled.
When we see framerate stutters, it's not because the game is running less than 60 or less than 30. It's because the framerate doesn't match the screen's internal refresh rate. Because most screens are 60 Hz (and 120 Hz nowadays), that means framerates of exactly 60 fps match the 60 Hz refresh rate. Framerates of 30 divide evenly into 60 so those also look smooth. That's why games target 30 and 60.
When a game drops from its target FPS, the framerate no longer evenly divides into the refresh rate, and that is what causes the stutters we perceive.
But if not matching the screen refresh rate is what causes framerate stutter to appear, what if there was a way to dynamically match the screen's refresh rate to the game's FPS? So if the game drops from 60 fps to 54 fps, the screen drops from 60 Hz to 54 Hz to match? And what if the screen Hz was constantly matched to the game's FPS? That would, in theory, cause the game to look smooth all the time, no matter how much the framerate bounced around.
Enter VRR. That is exactly what it is, and what it does. But because it's a newer technology, most screens still aren't VRR compatible. And that's unfortunate. Xbox Series X has VRR, and PS5 finally patched in VRR not too long ago. And of course PCs with modern GPUs are VRR compatible (Nvidia uses G-sync and AMD uses Free-Sync, but both are forms of VRR). If Switch 2 screen was VRR compatible, we'd never have framerate issues again (unless a game dropped below 30, but with the power of Switch 2 that shouldn't be a problem for most games). But even SteamDeck didn't use a screen with VRR, so I doubt Nintendo is going to use one.
But maybe it'll at least add VRR capability to the system when docked, so that games played on the TV can utilize VRR (provided you have a TV with HDMI 2.1 that's VRR compatible). That would be the dream.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
Ray tracing has been around for ages as I remember it being a big thing on the Amiga in the late 80s / early 90s. But according to Wikipedia, it has, conceptually at least, been around for a little longer - the 16th century..!
8k has been around for even longer, it says here it existed in the early 12th century.
Is this a "don't believe everything on Wikipedia" without reading about Albrecht Dürer's stuff on compositional technique????
Ray tracing has been around for ages as I remember it being a big thing on the Amiga in the late 80s / early 90s. But according to Wikipedia, it has, conceptually at least, been around for a little longer - the 16th century..!
8k has been around for even longer, it says here it existed in the early 12th century.
Is this a "don't believe everything on Wikipedia" without reading about Albrecht Dürer's stuff on compositional technique????
@JaxonH Thanks for the info. I much better understand what I am reading about what we should, hopefully, expect from the next hardware from Nintendo.
Also anyone who thinks a handheld device, even when docked, would achieve ray tracing even when much more powerful consoles struggle (we will see how developers work with it in the years to come) is expecting way too much. I imagine that won’t be used by anyone on the Switch 2/Pro whatever. It’s not needed. Focus on getting the most out of the hardware to create the best games possible and ray tracing isn’t needed to do that.
NEW WEBSITE LAUNCHED! Regular opinion articles, retro game reviews and impression pieces on new games! ENGAGE VG: EngageVG.com
@Giancarlothomaz
No. Switch cannot do DLSS. As I mentioned in my previous post, DLSS requires Tensor Cores, and Switch does not have Tensor Cores.
And it's DLSS, btw. It stands for Deep Learning Super Sampling and is, as the name implies, a form of machine learning AI upscaling. It's a proprietary technique from Nvidia using statistical machine learning to "train" the game how to fill in data that doesn't exist. When upscaling to a higher resolution, you get a higher pixel count. You could take each pixel and divide it into 4 smaller pixels, but those smaller pixels are all the same. No new data was created. What upscaling does is create the data for those smaller pixels. And DLSS is an advanced technique where millions of images are fed to teach the game what images should look like at higher resolutions- it utilizes machine learning to, well, "learn" how to fill in the pixels with finer detail that didn't exist in the initial, lower resolution image.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
During the DLSS training process, a 1080P rendered image is compared to an offline rendered 16K image. The differences between the two are then compared then returned to the AI network in order for it to learn and improve its results. This happens within the super computer thousands or maybe even millions of times in a learning loop.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@Giancarlothomaz
Ya, Switch has used AMD's Fidelity FX Super Resolution, which is a more basic form of upscaling that doesn't require proprietary Tensor Cores and can be implemented on both AMD and Nvidia GPUs. But it's better than nothing.
So far Switch has only used FSR 1.0 which is... OK. But FSR 2.0 is notably improved. Switch 2 shouldn't need it if it has DLSS 2.2 but, it's easier to implement so maybe some devs who don't want to spend the time on DLSS can just default to FSR 2.0.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@JaxonH I was about to ask whether DLSS had to be implemented/coded into their games or if was done by the chipset on all games regardless. But then I saw the last post of yours and it answered my question.
NEW WEBSITE LAUNCHED! Regular opinion articles, retro game reviews and impression pieces on new games! ENGAGE VG: EngageVG.com
Forums
Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread
Posts 65,661 to 65,680 of 70,195
Please login or sign up to reply to this topic