Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

Yeah, I think that's my issue. Once you've seen enough anime tropes, you've seen them all.

@BruceCM
There's nothing "wrong" with them. Plenty of ppl seem to like them.

But nothing about them especially intrigues me. Kratos is just a big grumpy brute. Alloy, eh. Just another character as far as I'm concerned. They're "life like" and all that, but maybe that's precisely the problem. I have a hard time caring about characters like that.

But all the Xenoblade characters? I'd die for any one of them. The Triangle Strategy characters? Love em. Fire Emblem Warriors Three Hopes characters? So good. Even Bayonetta and Nier Automata and Persona 5 Royal characters, all incredibly endearing.

Aside from Mass Effect (which I'll grant is a solid exception) I just can't think of any western focused games where the characters truly grabbed me to the point I'd want to order a statue of them or something. Yet my room is chock full of Japanese character statues.

Yeah, I hardly came across anime until after I was into gaming, @Maxenmus .... & I'd much rather play than just watch, so my very limited knowledge of anime is mostly from games, lol
I'm getting into some Western RPGs these days as well, so there's definitely plenty of good ones
Perhaps I'd feel like that about Kratos if I'd played more of the games, @JaxonH, I dunno. I certainly still love JRPGs & suchlike as well, you know

@BruceCM
Yeah, it's gonna be rough for me to get into JRPGs since I'm the total opposite of you. Not that I'm that put-off by the tropes, mind you, and I'll probably play my first Final Fantasy game someday, or the highly popular Chrono Trigger.

The thing is though, it's easier for me to find unique and unconventional anime translated than it is for me to find unconventional JRPGs localized. Any anime can be easily translated, but not every JRPG can be localized. Even with anime, a large portion of those I watched were niched psychological anime that aren't made up of Dragonball-ish storylines. With JRPGs, western studios are only gonna localize those that would appeal to their market (which is why many of the "translated visual novels" only made up 10% or less of the total amount of VNs), so not everything's gonna filter through except those with popular (and overused) tropes.

And I guess another big difference between anime and JRPGs is that one is largely made up of adventure stories (since that's what RPGs are perfect for) and the other can be many different genres, even Lovecraftian horror or psychological thrillers exploring philosophical themes. Whenever I ask for a JRPG recommendation, all of the titles given to me usually have some kind of grand adventure into the unknown, uncovering some mystery or defeating some kind of evil, etc. And I'm pretty much long past the phase where I'm still interested in adventure stories (probably outgrew that after I turned 17 actually).

It's why I'm thankful for western games like Detroit: Become Human or Bioshock where it's less about going on some grand ol' adventure and more about exploring the facets of the human condition (especially Bioshock, which is literally a masterpiece). Like, I can't think of any JRPG that could match to the depths of Bioshock if I could be honest. And to take another western RPG in comparison, there's Deus Ex: Human Revolution which is like a western Ghost in the Shell, questioning whether if our very human nature would be affected by the addition of inorganic computer parts that enhance our body.

I don't know, maybe I'll stumble onto a JRPG that offers such unique questions in the future, but I just haven't stumbled onto any yet.

Yeah, I like 'weird' western games, too, @Maxenmus .... Be sure to let me know if you play any FF or Chrono Trigger, too!

I get back home and poof a direct gets announced. I knew it!

I would disagree in the sense that I think JRPGs can put comparable themes as a major point in their game. I think the difference is that JRPGs generally try to have those themes happen in the context of the more standard world saving adventure story. And while Bioshock is incredible from a thematic perspective in places, it also ends with a villain who roughly acts like Grunty the Witch in Banjo Kazooie (a person to taunt you so you want to defeat them) and saving children because "saving children is good, doing experiments to them is gasp bad".

@kkslider5552000
I mean, that's a fair point, but your description of a "world saving adventure story" is easily a turn-off for me already. It doesn't help that I haven't played that many JRPGs to begin with that I wouldn't really know what distinct differences your idea of a "standard world saving adventure story" would have from my criticized cliched ones. There's nothing to hook me about the idea of an adventure story at all to be perfectly frank.

As for your Bioshock argument... well, I've never played Banjo Kazooie games, and I think you're oversimplifying the villain and what he represents, but let's agree to disagree since I don't really feel like getting dragged into an Atlus Shrugged debate (the Ayn Rand book the game is based on, of which many of its ideas were explored, which is essentially the main appeal of the game for me rather than how stereotypical the villain might be). I'll just say that the villain is secondary for me next to the more appealing thematic exploration and philosophical musing. I guess many people prefer characters over story, but for me, a unique story with interesting themes and concepts can be far more engrossing since it offers me new perspectives about life I would've never thought before.

And again, you're oversimplifying the saving children part of the game, or misunderstanding it even. It's kinda like criticizing Pokémon for encouraging dog-fighting when that isn't intended to be the appeal. I mean, it's fine if you find Bioshock boring or uninteresting or something (not sure what your specific point is here), but I found it to be a compelling experience. Sorry you don't feel the same.

I think that games like Bioshock are crucial even because they prevent the gaming industry from being saturated with typical adventure stories that feel the same thematically. It offers a kind of immersive journey that lets us challenge ideas in life, and was one of the contemporary pioneers of "games can be art too." Sure, the art might not be to everyone's taste, might not be perfect even from your (rather nitpicky) example, but I feel like it was ambitious for what it did in a video game experience.

tl;dr: I haven't played enough JRPGs because none of their premise has hooked me enough with their seemingly generic adventure stories.

@JaxonH I think we're getting to the end of the crossgen period. Big releases like Gotham Knights are skipping last gen and you also have PSVR2 on the PS5 front (given the promotion so far it seems an early 2023 release is likely, probably a big part of this year's PS Showcase if they do one). Improved performance for last gen games is a nice benefit though.

I do think however that Switch lineup is so insane that you don't really need another system unless there's games you really want that isn't on Switch and is unlikely to come.

And yet I still found some of 3rd party multi console games such as Youtubers Life 2, Team Sonic Racing, Portal Knights, Dragon Quest Builders 2 have worse performance on Switch version than PS4 version.

@Anti-Matter
Yeah, I agree with this. I noticed some latency and performance issues on some of the newer Switch games I've played like Digimon Survive.

I think that's a fair enough point. JRPGs often have an issue of being at their least interesting early on, even when they do a standard story they often build towards actual investment in it and don't always effectively grab people at the start.

My point was less to dismiss Bioshock (though I don't think interesting thematic elements automatically make every aspect of it more interesting than what it is (occasionally it makes it disappointing compared to its high points)), and more to say that the end of the day, the mainstream video game is going to mainstream video game and so this interesting tale about a city falling under its objectivist ideals is still interested in you hating the villain for more basic reasons and still expects you to not be a child hater. Too broad an audience not to. Bioshock has a final boss because video games have final bosses, and perhaps no video game has felt more like "well we need a final boss so..." then Bioshock (with maybe the exception of that one Matrix game where the Wachowskis literally appear to say something somewhat similar to that effect). And whether that actually adds to the experience or not is subjective (it didn't for me, but I don't hate the end game of Bioshock like I've seen some people say).

@TheMelodiusRose
I have compared with same games I have (in this case Portal Knights, Youtubers Life 2, Dragon Quest Builders 2) from Switch and PS4 version and those games look better on PS4 version with stable 60 fps than the Switch version with 30 fps (and sometimes below than 30 fps on certain places).

@Maxenmus, replying to your earlier comment where you said western publishers only bring over the mainstream JRPGs & not the niche/unconventional ones.

While this may have been true in the 80's/90's into the 00's, can you think of any modern "unconventional" JRPGs that are staying in Japan? AFAIK, pretty much all JRPGs make it overseas these days, even the remakes of the "unconventional" ones that skipped us the first time around (like Live A Live).

@kkslider5552000 It's a fair point on its own, your criticism of Bioshock's imperfection, but not when it's in terms of "how much it appeals to me than JRPGs." For any imperfection it has, at least it tries to be interesting with its thematics. If this is solely a criticism of whether Bioshock is a perfect game or not, on the other hand, I would've agreed with you.

@TheMelodiusRose So? That's still not a reason why I should pay my hard-earned cash and support the Switch over the more stable Playstation games.

@RR529 Probably true. To be fair, my statement was based more on my knowledge of visual novel localization than the JRPG kind. I haven't really been recommended any JRPGs that seem "unconventional" to be honest. Even Live A Live seems like it's just a dimensional-hopping or time travel adventure paying homage to different time periods or something rather than featuring any serious themes I might be interested in.

@skywake You are not wrong that their backwards compatibility is non-existent, but most people that bring up the past problems of Nintendo closing the eShops and such seem to fail to remember that you can still download those games again even if the store is shutdown. Maybe there have been hiccups, but from reading things, it doesn't seem like people have been totally cut off from their digital library forever. You can also just get SD cards and always have them stored rather than relying on downloading them again somewhere down the road. Obviously they can break at some point, but I don't think it happens that often as I've had one for my phone for well over a decade and it still works like it always has.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that Nintendo isn't well behind the times in certain areas like backwards compatibility or having access to your back catalog. Obviously you have a lot more experience with things than I do given that this is my first Nintendo system since the NES. As long as you're willing to continue to have a Switch around to play these games and spend money on SD cards, I do think going all digital is an option people could go with without living in fear.

With that said, I still have yet to decided which way I'd go. I only own 2 games digitally so far, so I could go either way pretty easily. I do have to say that it is annoying that Nintendo rarely ever discounts many of their 1st party games on the eShop, and I could get several of them right now physically from Best Buy for around $50 each. Paying $60 (technically $57 since you get $3 worth of points when you buy a $60 game) for 5 year old games like Super Mario Odyssey, no matter how good the game is, does kind of suck, and knowing these games will always be that expensive does put a bit of a damper on things.

@TheMelodiusRose
Or perhaps I was simply making a casual observation in an Internet forum pointing out what faults I saw rather than making an objective expert statement of the Switch's quality. My point was more about whether if I would spend my money on Switch games or PS games if such performances become a factor in my shopping decision (it usually isn't a factor).

I mean the disagreement is that both at the end of the day still have to do certain things to appeal to an audience while doing an interesting theme. FFVII has a save the world adventure theme but if you see how things go thematically, ESPECIALLY with its ending, it certainly has some stuff worth thinking about, I'll just say that.

I don't really care much if JRPG cliches are a deal breaker or not to you, I just think its interesting to look at how mainstream game stories work and I thought it was a worthwhile point to make. I don't make every reply to someone for the sole purpose of definitively countering their opinion, like I'm playing Ace Attorney. :V (especially since I think Bioshock is great in most regards and Human Revolution is one of my favorite games of the past decade)

I thought that's how most people "talk" on the Internet. Just an exchange of "Your opinion is wrong so I must counter yours." lol Just kidding.

Yeah, I'll give FFVII a look. I thought the argument discussion though was more about how adventure stories work in JRPGs rather than just mainstream stories alone?

Also, technically, Bioshock's theme was anything but mainstream in spite of its mainstream gameplay and obligatory villain. If more games, western or otherwise, try to be as ambitious as Bioshock by going outside of the mainstream themes in their game universe, I might have bought more modern games. For example: Papers, Please is an interesting one that tackles immigration issues in a dystopian setting. If that game had Bioshock-level graphics, I would've probably been interested in it. Unfortunately, most of these unique game concepts are relegated to the indie game industry because the mainstream game industry is too busy rehashing the same kinds of games over and over again.

I do kinda get your point though about JRPGs and FFVII, how they have a seemingly cliched story but it's actually a front for richer concepts beneath. I guess my problem is whether if I'll be spending more than 50% of my time in a stereotypical adventure theme before "I get to the good part." It's like when someone recommends you a movie you might not be interested in but tells you "Just keep watching till the good part." With how grindy RPGs and especially JRPGs can be, I'd be spending an awful lot of time in that world, so the last thing I would want to be caught in is a universe I have little interest in exploring further, regardless of what deeper themes it might hold within.

That is a worthwhile concern. I didn't feel interested enough to beat any of the handful of JRPGs I bought on 3DS and for two of them grinding was part of the issue, so those were not the best use of money I've had. And I do wish more modern mainstream JRPGs were closer to the 20 or so hours the genre used to be.